Can trump finally kill evil political correctness?

[the truth]

If he can achieve just this alone , that would be a massive success. Can Trump free us all from this insane liberal PC straight jacket which has destroyed freedom of speech and turned us all into one big basket case where anyone and everyone claims to be discriminated against all the time simply to avoid justice or make fake claims for compensation!

[Firewire]

Yes let's legalise discrimination

[Johnnyuk123]

Donald defeated Clinton and all the media networks working on her behalf so YES he can easily do this. No problem!

[the truth]

Yes let's legalise discrimination

no lets legalise free speech....i.e. if the world has world wide radical isamic terrorism that kills over 35000 innocent people across the western world , lets be allowed to call it that, lets be allowed to talk about it, lets be allowed to openly discuss how to deal with it and lets be allowed to put in place a policy that deals with it and protects the public at large. Lets also be allowed to actually have freedom of speech for writers and comics without fear of reprisal or execution.

[Northern Monkey]

You know.I doubt it.He won't have enough time.
The thing with politics is that it's like a constant game of tug of war.Political attitudes are constantly being pulled back and forth.People will pull back to the left in 4 years time i think.Just as people are sick of all the PC bull****,integration and fragility of the left now.If too much is drastically changed then there will be a bigger pull towards the left.A certain balance is needed and policies brought in gradually to change things for the better.Imo.

[the truth]

You know.I doubt it.He won't have enough time.
The thing with politics is that it's like a constant game of tug of war.Political attitudes are constantly being pulled back and forth.People will pull back to the left in 4 years time i think.Just as people are sick of all the PC bull****,integration and fragility of the left now.If too much is drastically changed then there will be a bigger pull towards the left.A certain balance is needed and policies brought in gradually to change things for the better.Imo.

PC is a bull**** make believe post - truth language invented by corrupt politicians, mostly on the left , simply to try and label everyone who questions them as racist, sexist bigots. Its a disgusting subversion of our culture and destroys justice in the courts and free speech. The other offshoots it brings are horrific where we have different courts for different groups of people and endlessly eroding our own beliefs, culture and rights. Who would have believed it would lead to 20,000 children being abused or 34000 innocents being executed by terrorrists across 50 western nations. These facts alone underline what an evil dangerous poison PC really is.

[Pete.]

The fact that he removed the 'ban all Muslims' pledge from his policies minutes after his win I think he's going to do just that :) :)

[Tom4784]

People thinking that PC is evil = People who are upset that their opinions no longer reflect that of the majority.

[Black Dagger]

"I wish I could openly abuse black people and get away with it" -The Truth-

[Tom4784]

Also Freedom of Speech hasn't been 'destroyed' by PC, bigots are just mad that people don't applaud them every time they spew their bile.

Have your opinions but FoS doesn't mean that everyone has to accept your opinions. That's the real problem that people who take issue with PC have, they expect their opinion to be celebrated and they think it's an attack on their rights if anyone thinks any differently.

[the truth]

The fact that he removed the 'ban all Muslims' pledge from his policies minutes after his win I think he's going to do just that :) :)

1) He didnt actually say that, pls stop the misquotes. He said he was calling for a TEMPORARY shut down of all muslims until the government can work out what was going on....he later changed this from a temporary ban, to extreme vetting.

2) No other politician was addressing this enormous worldwide threat or was even allowed to use the words radical islamic terrorism. The fact he at least dared address this elephant in the room, is one major fact why he won. He could have been more tactful but the real message is , he is not afraid of these radicals, he will not be bullied into talking about it and he will act on it if this worldwide mass terrorist threat doesnt relent. He is the ONLy candidate who stressed the first rule of president is to protect his own people.

[Pete.]

1) He didnt actually say that, pls stop the misquotes. He said he was calling for a TEMPORARY shut down of all muslims until the government can work out what was going on....he later changed this from a temporary ban, to extreme vetting.

2) No other politician was addressing this enormous worldwide threat or was even allowed to use the words radical islamic terrorism. The fact he at least dared address this elephant in the room, is one major fact why he won. He could have been more tactful but the real message is , he is not afraid of these radicals, he will not be bullied into talking about it and he will act on it if this worldwide mass terrorist threat doesnt relent. He is the ONLy candidate who stressed the first rule of president is to protect his own people.

Well regardless this unconstitutional policy is dead now

[jennyjuniper]

If he can achieve just this alone , that would be a massive success. Can Trump free us all from this insane liberal PC straight jacket which has destroyed freedom of speech and turned us all into one big basket case where anyone and everyone claims to be discriminated against all the time simply to avoid justice or make fake claims for compensation!

I certainly hope so. Although it is up to us to say what we feel and mean. If people want to label us racist etc., because of our statements, then so be it. It's the happy clappy liberal types who creep around scared to offend anyone who have brought us to this.

[jet]

The fact that he removed the 'ban all Muslims' pledge from his policies minutes after his win I think he's going to do just that :) :)

Yes, he spouted hot air to get elected. He's going soft already on several issues, more to come....some people are going to be disappointed. The thing is, he didn't ever say HOW he was going to achieve all the things he pledged, but his supporters didn't seem to care, he was saying what they wanted to hear and they just believed...

[the truth]

I certainly hope so. Although it is up to us to say what we feel and mean. If people want to label us racist etc., because of our statements, then so be it. It's the happy clappy liberal types who creep around scared to offend anyone who have brought us to this.

yes but it didnt happen by accident it was an avil scam pulled off by the loony left to take away all free speech ...in a free society we should be able to discuss EVERYTHING openly without fear of reprisal.

[jennyjuniper]

no lets legalise free speech....i.e. if the world has world wide radical isamic terrorism that kills over 35000 innocent people across the western world , lets be allowed to call it that, lets be allowed to talk about it, lets be allowed to openly discuss how to deal with it and lets be allowed to put in place a policy that deals with it and protects the public at large. Lets also be allowed to actually have freedom of speech for writers and comics without fear of reprisal or execution.

A good start would be to do away with sanitized labelling. For example don't say 'honour killing' say what it is - cold blooded murder.
Ethnic cleanising - mass murder. Which fruitloop came up with the idea that by giving something so horrible an innocuous name, it would make it not seem so horrible?

[the truth]

A good start would be to do away with sanitized labelling. For example don't say 'honour killing' say what it is - cold blooded murder.
Ethnic cleanising - mass murder. Which fruitloop came up with the idea that by giving something so horrible an innocuous name, it would make it not seem so horrible?

Good points, well made.

[Johnnyuk123]

Also Freedom of Speech hasn't been 'destroyed' by PC, bigots are just mad that people don't applaud them every time they spew their bile.

Have your opinions but FoS doesn't mean that everyone has to accept your opinions. That's the real problem that people who take issue with PC have, they expect their opinion to be celebrated and they think it's an attack on their rights if anyone thinks any differently.


If this is true then where has my last post just gone? :shrug:

[Jamie89]

"PC culture" is just what happens when you start protecting groups of people from being discriminated against, and I'd rather have that than go back to a time where you'd see "no blacks" signs and people being arrested for being gay. The extremes of PC culture happen just because there's extremes to everything, but you can't judge somethings worth in it's entirety on it's extremes alone, otherwise you'll have a very skewed vision of things. To say political correctness is evil simply because there are some examples of evil that can be linked to it (tenuously and ignoring other factors) is ignorant in my view. Sorry if that comes across as personal I don't mean it to but I couldn't think of any other way of describing it. And people still have free speech, you just have to accept that you might be questioned and criticised on the things you say because other people have the right to also do that. Free speech doesn't mean you can just say whatever you want and nobody has the right to be offended by it.

[Johnnyuk123]

We also have to faction in that many people in the world that we live in simply cannot handle the truth.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Fear of blame is probably what this is really about and its what allowed children to be raped in Rotherham and elsewhere.

But yes thankfully the people of America have said enough of this lily livered liberal bolloxio

Here is to a new era of plain speaking and recognising elephants in rooms and calling them out regardless if a few souls in California wet their pants over it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

welcome back Johhny btw

:clap1:

[Johnnyuk123]

welcome back Johhny btw

:clap1:

Thanks LT. :wavey:

[Withano]

no lets legalise free speech....i.e. if the world has world wide radical isamic terrorism that kills over 35000 innocent people across the western world , lets be allowed to call it that, lets be allowed to talk about it, lets be allowed to openly discuss how to deal with it and lets be allowed to put in place a policy that deals with it and protects the public at large. Lets also be allowed to actually have freedom of speech for writers and comics without fear of reprisal or execution.

You can talk about it. You can't generalise a group of people because of a select few, or throw in a couple insulting slurs towards an entire group. These rules work well, Trump moving house will have little impact in how people perceive childish or aggressive hate speech. But sure, talk about it. Just be grown ups when ya do and literally nobody will have a problem.

Freedom of speech for writers exist, but if you're passing off ludicrous claims and gross generalisations, then your speech will likely be critiqued. You have the freedom to choose who sees your words, if you're feeling too sensitive for scrutiny, I'd avoid public forums.

[jet]

A good start would be to do away with sanitized labelling. For example don't say 'honour killing' say what it is - cold blooded murder.
Ethnic cleanising - mass murder. Which fruitloop came up with the idea that by giving something so horrible an innocuous name, it would make it not seem so horrible?

I don't thing many would disagree with what you say here Jenny. I certainly wouldn't. But non - PC can also be taken too far....just as PC can be taken too far. It just takes common sense.

[Kizzy]

Also Freedom of Speech hasn't been 'destroyed' by PC, bigots are just mad that people don't applaud them every time they spew their bile.

Have your opinions but FoS doesn't mean that everyone has to accept your opinions. That's the real problem that people who take issue with PC have, they expect their opinion to be celebrated and they think it's an attack on their rights if anyone thinks any differently.

This, the ONLY people who cry political correctness are those who are attempting to denigrate a sub section of society and are desperate to make it appealing to another.

[the truth]

This, the ONLY people who cry political correctness are those who are attempting to denigrate a sub section of society and are desperate to make it appealing to another.

100% wrong. what do you say about the 20,000 abused kids in rotherham, buried due to political correctness? what do you say to the millions of illegal immigrants across europe, the 33000 innocents killed in the western world by radical islamic terrorists last year? still think its right to have open borders? to arm so called rebels we dont even know? to have increased populations by 10 million over 20 years? oh am I being racist yet accoridng to the bull**** politically invented language of political correctness?

[the truth]

You can talk about it. You can't generalise a group of people because of a select few, or throw in a couple insulting slurs towards an entire group. These rules work well, Trump moving house will have little impact in how people perceive childish or aggressive hate speech. But sure, talk about it. Just be grown ups when ya do and literally nobody will have a problem.

Freedom of speech for writers exist, but if you're passing off ludicrous claims and gross generalisations, then your speech will likely be critiqued. You have the freedom to choose who sees your words, if you're feeling too sensitive for scrutiny, I'd avoid public forums.

Thats not the reality, words are endlessly taken out of context to suit the liberal agenda....that idiot emily thornberry recently cocked up a sky interview and ended up claiming sexual harrassment as a get out of jail. just so typical

[Crimson Dynamo]

Too many people hide behind cards

racism being one of the worst

[the truth]

Too many people hide behind cards

racism being one of the worst

exactly

[Kizzy]

100% wrong. what do you say about the 20,000 abused kids in rotherham, buried due to political correctness? what do you say to the millions of illegal immigrants across europe, the 33000 innocents killed in the western world by radical islamic terrorists last year? still think its right to have open borders? to arm so called rebels we dont even know? to have increased populations by 10 million over 20 years? oh am I being racist yet accoridng to the bull**** politically invented language of political correctness?

That was nothing to do with the political correctness used as justification for casual bigotry today.

[Brillopad]

People thinking that PC is evil = People who are upset that their opinions no longer reflect that of the majority.

I think that both brexit and the Trump win clearly demonstrate that the majority of people are fed-up with political correctness. The obvious votes of rebellion and dissatisfaction at the current rate of migration was blatant enough for all to see.

PC is for people who can't think for themselves and try very hard to 'fit-in' with modern so-called 'educated' views. It's all about image with some, people who seem to lack real understanding of how this impacts on the indigenous population, especially when the views of many of these migrants are at odds with the views of the locals. A kind of inverted snobbery.

It is also attempted intimidation of those that don't just blindly follow 'popular' ideology' without question.

[Vicky.]

Yes, he spouted hot air to get elected. He's going soft already on several issues, more to come....some people are going to be disappointed. The thing is, he didn't ever say HOW he was going to achieve all the things he pledged, but his supporters didn't seem to care, he was saying what they wanted to hear and they just believed...

This is a good thing really.

[Niamh.]

Also Freedom of Speech hasn't been 'destroyed' by PC, bigots are just mad that people don't applaud them every time they spew their bile.

Have your opinions but FoS doesn't mean that everyone has to accept your opinions. That's the real problem that people who take issue with PC have, they expect their opinion to be celebrated and they think it's an attack on their rights if anyone thinks any differently.

Exactly. The world has become a crueller, less tolerant place recently, that's not something to be celebrated imo

[Niamh.]

This, the ONLY people who cry political correctness are those who are attempting to denigrate a sub section of society and are desperate to make it appealing to another.

yep totally agree, it's not a problem if it's not a problem for me type attitudes

[Vicky.]

This, the ONLY people who cry political correctness are those who are attempting to denigrate a sub section of society and are desperate to make it appealing to another.

I agree with this in most cases. However there really are times when 'PC gone maaaaad' can apply without bigotry.

[Brillopad]

That was nothing to do with the political correctness used as justification for casual bigotry today.

Constantly chucking around the word bigot is not PC and simply demonstrates a need to try to undermine anyone who disagrees with you.

Bigots come in all shapes and sizes including those that constantly try to shut down opinions different to their own with words such as 'bigot' and 'racist'.

So predictable and totally boring.

[Withano]

Thats not the reality, words are endlessly taken out of context to suit the liberal agenda....that idiot emily thornberry recently cocked up a sky interview and ended up claiming sexual harrassment as a get out of jail. just so typical

Maybe make the context clear in future then. Echoing what most people here have said, people seem to cry 'PC brigade taking it too far' in response to deliberately inflammatory words which have historically caused upset or outrage to groups of people. When you use slurs against an entire population, you include the innocent and those wrongly associated with a select few from the same group. I think many (on here and in the public eye) will need to work on making their context clearer if this was never their intention before blaming lefties, SJW's or PCB. Because, in my experience, they are just reluctant to take blame because people got away with similar words a couple generations ago.

You can blame the lefties and demand them all to change, but a more appropriate solution is for each person to take responsibility of the words that they write and work towards learning to write in a factually accurate way, which will cause insult to zero innocent parties.

[the truth]

Maybe make the context clear in future then. Echoing what most people here have said, people seem to cry 'PC brigade taking it too far' in response to deliberately inflammatory words which have historically caused upset or outrage to groups of people. When you use slurs against an entire population, you include the innocent and those wrongly associated with a select few from the same group. I think many (on here and in the public eye) will need to work on making their context clearer if this was never their intention before blaming lefties, SJW's or PCB. Because, in my experience, they are just reluctant to take blame because people got away with similar words a couple generations ago.

You can blame the lefties and demand them all to change, but a more appropriate solution is for each person to take responsibility of the words that they write and work towards learning to write in a factually accurate way, which will cause insult to zero innocent parties.

the vats majority of slurs come from the left , wrongly labelling millions as racists sexist homophobic mysoginist etc etc just to deflect from their own lies and failures...this slander must be destroyed...clintons basket of deplorables pretty much sum up the false accusations the left have gotten away with for decades.

[Withano]

the vats majority of slurs come from the left , wrongly labelling millions as racists sexist homophobic mysoginist etc etc just to deflect from their own lies and failures...this slander must be destroyed...clintons basket of deplorables pretty much sum up the false accusations the left have gotten away with for decades.

But you want political correctness to die. Falsely labelling somebody a racist or a sexist is about as politically incorrect you can get. So what are you really fighting for? Right wing superiority? Or equality? Because at the moment it sounds as if you're contradicting yourself.

"Freedom of speech for all, unless you call me racist, then you can go away and shut up this doesnt apply to you, hun"

[the truth]

Exactly. The world has become a crueller, less tolerant place recently, that's not something to be celebrated imo

political correctness has made it crueller as we see from the 20,000 abused children in rotherham. with this social cancer its almost impossible now to differentiate between legitimate victims and those who play the victim/sexist/racist/bigot/homophobe/ card

[Crimson Dynamo]

Exactly. The world has become a crueller, less tolerant place recently, that's not something to be celebrated imo

How do you work that out?

If anything the reverse is true with each generation

You just mean that votes have not gone the way you would have liked is all

[Northern Monkey]

Also Freedom of Speech hasn't been 'destroyed' by PC, bigots are just mad that people don't applaud them every time they spew their bile.

Have your opinions but FoS doesn't mean that everyone has to accept your opinions. That's the real problem that people who take issue with PC have, they expect their opinion to be celebrated and they think it's an attack on their rights if anyone thinks any differently.

Unfortunately i think that quite a while ago political correctness has gone beyond just 'not letting bigots spread their bile' to the point where important issues are avoided for fear of being accused of some kind of prejudice.Rotherham and immigration are just two examples.I think Political Correctness has alot to answer for Brexit and Donald Trump.It is two simplistic and incorrect just to call everyone racist.As seen on Question Time recently nobody wants to tackle the root of why Donald Trump became President.They just want to scowl down with a critical eye.That attitude gets nobody anywhere.Issues have to be addressed.

[the truth]

Unfortunately i think that quite a while ago political correctness has gone beyond just 'not letting bigots spread their bile' to the point where important issues are avoided for fear of being accused of some kind of prejudice.Rotherham and immigration are just two examples.I think Political Correctness has alot to answer for Brexit and Donald Trump.It is two simplistic and incorrect just to call everyone racist.As seen on Question Time recently nobody wants to tackle the root of why Donald Trump became President.They just want to scowl down with a critical eye.That attitude gets nobody anywhere.Issues have to be addressed.

exactly. these sanctimnious twats like ed balls wife, how on earth can she preach? she was in the government that illegally killed 1 million iraqis, which formed isis and the humanitarian syrian disasters, who bankrupted our nation, who gave our soverignty to the anti democratic EU, who made our nhs 70 dirtier than scandinavian hospitals?

[Vicky.]

Unfortunately i think that quite a while ago political correctness has gone beyond just 'not letting bigots spread their bile' to the point where important issues are avoided for fear of being accused of some kind of prejudice.Rotherham and immigration are just two examples.I think Political Correctness has alot to answer for Brexit and Donald Trump.It is two simplistic and incorrect just to call everyone racist.As seen on Question Time recently nobody wants to tackle the root of why Donald Trump became President.They just want to scowl down with a critical eye.That attitude gets nobody anywhere.Issues have to be addressed.

Yes, I posted this on the other trump thread, but this article explains everything pretty well. I was one of those who wrote off Trump voters as bigots, I will be honest. But this gave me a clearer perspective on it all tbh

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

[Niamh.]

How do you work that out?

If anything the reverse is true with each generation

You just mean that votes have not gone the way you would have liked is all

Don't tell me what I mean, thanks

[the truth]

Don't tell me what I mean, thanks

He just posted what he thinks you mean, which is 100% fair enough

[Niamh.]

He just posted what he thinks you mean, which is 100% fair enough

I'm quite sure LT can speak for himself

[Ammi]

I think that both brexit and the Trump win clearly demonstrate that the majority of people are fed-up with political correctness. The obvious votes of rebellion and dissatisfaction at the current rate of migration was blatant enough for all to see.

PC is for people who can't think for themselves and try very hard to 'fit-in' with modern so-called 'educated' views. It's all about image with some, people who seem to lack real understanding of how this impacts on the indigenous population, especially when the views of many of these migrants are at odds with the views of the locals. A kind of inverted snobbery.

It is also attempted intimidation of those that don't just blindly follow 'popular' ideology' without question.

..this isn't true though at all and it's the 'non pc' as it were, throwing a 'pc' out there and doing the exact same thing as is being objected to is the thing...Brexit for instance as you mentioned that..?...I think that it's clear that 'ist' was a factor for some, that's something I've personally experienced so I know it to be true for some but to say it was a factor in voting for all wouldn't be true and maybe only true of a tiny percentage with others and the majority voting Brexit for many reasons...the same with remain voters, immigration and wanting all out open borders wasn't a thing for most either but maybe it was for some/again maybe a tiny percentage...people can't say through PC..?..well yes they can, people can say and they always have been able to, they say their concerns about immigration and no one will judge them or should judge them because it's all perfectly valid but to be racist/to be hateful in their concerns and words etc and in their intolerances is not acceptable and I don't understand why people who have concerns and worries etc would feel that any 'pc' applied to them anyway because it doesn't in what the term represents so there is no issue, we all self pc ourselves...but it's equally an intolerance in the way that pc is thrown out there as something that's a bad thing and such a negative effect on society to say what is considered 'pc' is not equally moderate views speaking for themselves and assumed some kind of 'appearance' must be the reason and wanting to seem to be saying the right thing, is equally as restrictive ...(on the whole and in general..)...people say what they believe and what their thoughts of without any consideration to a pc....if someone says, no I think that's wrong, they say it because that's what they believe...

[Ammi]

...and as for 'effect' and for 'appearance'...well look at Trump and his wall across the Mexican border and his attention seeking start in his campaign...a master of saying what he thinks many want to hear...

[the truth]

..this isn't true though at all and it's the 'non pc' as it were, throwing a 'pc' out there and doing the exact same thing as is being objected to is the thing...Brexit for instance as you mentioned that..?...I think that it's clear that 'ist' was a factor for some, that's something I've personally experienced so I know it to be true for some but to say it was a factor in voting for all wouldn't be true and maybe only true of a tiny percentage with others and the majority voting Brexit for many reasons...the same with remain voters, immigration and wanting all out open borders wasn't a thing for most either but maybe it was for some/again maybe a tiny percentage...people can't say through PC..?..well yes they can, people can say and they always have been able to, they say their concerns about immigration and no one will judge them or should judge them because it's all perfectly valid but to be racist/to be hateful in their concerns and words etc and in their intolerances is not acceptable and I don't understand why people who have concerns and worries etc would feel that any 'pc' applied to them anyway because it doesn't in what the term represents so there is no issue, we all self pc ourselves...but it's equally an intolerance in the way that pc is thrown out there as something that's a bad thing and such a negative effect on society to say what is considered 'pc' is not equally moderate views speaking for themselves and assumed some kind of 'appearance' must be the reason and wanting to seem to be saying the right thing, is equally as restrictive ...(on the whole and in general..)...people say what they believe and what their thoughts of without any consideration to a pc....if someone says, no I think that's wrong, they say it because that's what they believe...

it IS 100% true. he hit the nail on the head and until the truth is acknowledged the loony left will become the lib dems and they will be seen for what they have become, all image all style and zero truth zero subtances, ignoring the real politics of the masses...low wages, corporate takeovers, raidcal islamic terrorism, the real intolerant fakes who hate their own country and throw around slander and false accusations like confetti

[Crimson Dynamo]

Don't tell me what I mean, thanks

it is what you mean tho

:hee:

[MB.]

zero truth

Ah, you're finally changing your username

[Niamh.]

it is what you mean tho

:hee:

Nope Mystic T, your powers are failing :hee:

[Ammi]

it IS 100% true. he hit the nail on the head and until the truth is acknowledged the loony left will become the lib dems and they will be seen for what they have become, all image all style and zero truth zero subtances, ignoring the real politics of the masses...low wages, corporate takeovers, raidcal islamic terrorism, the real intolerant fakes who hate their own country and throw around slander and false accusations like confetti

..you say false accusations and yet you falsely group together and generalise what you call a 'looney left' and you just don't see it, the actual truth..whatever our views, that's exactly what they are our own individual views as individual people, no need to label into little boxes and no need for pc either except in the minority cases of extremes who prejudice and there is a need to protect against those prejudices...

[Brillopad]

..this isn't true though at all and it's the 'non pc' as it were, throwing a 'pc' out there and doing the exact same thing as is being objected to is the thing...Brexit for instance as you mentioned that..?...I think that it's clear that 'ist' was a factor for some, that's something I've personally experienced so I know it to be true for some but to say it was a factor in voting for all wouldn't be true and maybe only true of a tiny percentage with others and the majority voting Brexit for many reasons...the same with remain voters, immigration and wanting all out open borders wasn't a thing for most either but maybe it was for some/again maybe a tiny percentage...people can't say through PC..?..well yes they can, people can say and they always have been able to, they say their concerns about immigration and no one will judge them or should judge them because it's all perfectly valid but to be racist/to be hateful in their concerns and words etc and in their intolerances is not acceptable and I don't understand why people who have concerns and worries etc would feel that any 'pc' applied to them anyway because it doesn't in what the term represents so there is no issue, we all self pc ourselves...but it's equally an intolerance in the way that pc is thrown out there as something that's a bad thing and such a negative effect on society to say what is considered 'pc' is not equally moderate views speaking for themselves and assumed some kind of 'appearance' must be the reason and wanting to seem to be saying the right thing, is equally as restrictive ...(on the whole and in general..)...people say what they believe and what their thoughts of without any consideration to a pc....if someone says, no I think that's wrong, they say it because that's what they believe...

People did vote for many reasons but there is no doubt that migration was a big part and that and not all those that have concerns on migration are 'bigots' - most aren't, but I think this predictable attempted 'shut-down' of these concerns by some is becoming really tiresome.

I definitely get the feeling that, with one or two posters in particular, there is a belief that to follow current 'thinking' is somehow the educated and therefore superior view to have putting them them in the 'right' and justifiying their dismissive and patronising comments. They need to get over themselves - it's all in their heads.

[Vicky.]

Can those who say that PC is evil and whatnot, give an example of things you would like to be able to say without being called bigots? Things that you think are not bigoted but would be shut down with claims of racist and such? I feel this could help the debate somewhat.

I will start by what I meant in an earlier post, about how I feel sometimes 'PC gone mad' is actually true, without bigotry on behalf of the person saying things. It is 'transphobic' and 'bigoted' to claim males can never become females. And vice versa. It is 'transphobic' to say women get pregnant, or that men have penises. It is 'bigoted' to claim that males do not menstruate. This is utterly mental IMO. And a very good example of what I assume some people mean when they say 'PC gorn maaaaad'. Sometimes that line is uttered by racists/sexists and so on. But often bigot is applied to anyone who does not go along with the current 'liberal' thinking, regardless of how mental said thinking is.

Also yes, sometimes even speaking of immigration is shouted down as racism/xenophobia. I have seen this often. But thats from the extreme left, not 'lefties' in general. Also a lot of it depends on quite how you put your views across. For example saying 'I am concerned about the effects current levels of immigration have on our country' is very different that 'immigrants are taking all of our houses and jobs'.

In short, yes some people do claim things are 'bigotted' or 'phobic' or whatever for nothing. However people claiming this are generally just extremists of left leaning views. Just like how you get extreme right leaning people..

[Northern Monkey]

Yes, I posted this on the other trump thread, but this article explains everything pretty well. I was one of those who wrote off Trump voters as bigots, I will be honest. But this gave me a clearer perspective on it all tbh

http://www.cracked.com/blog/6-reasons-trumps-rise-that-no-one-talks-about/

A very interesting read:thumbs:

[Ammi]

Can those who say that PC is evil and whatnot, give an example of things you would like to be able to say without being called bigots? Things that you think are not bigoted but would be shut down with claims of racist and such? I feel this could help the debate somewhat.

I will start by what I meant in an earlier post, about how I feel sometimes 'PC gone mad' is actually true, without bigotry on behalf of the person saying things. It is 'transphobic' and 'bigoted' to claim males can never become females. And vice versa. It is 'transphobic' to say women get pregnant, or that men have penises. It is 'bigoted' to claim that males do not menstruate. This is utterly mental IMO. And a very good example of what I assume some people mean when they say 'PC gorn maaaaad'. Sometimes that line is uttered by racists/sexists and so on. But often bigot is applied to anyone who does not go along with the current 'liberal' thinking, regardless of how mental said thinking is.

Also yes, sometimes even speaking of immigration is shouted down as racism/xenophobia. I have seen this often. But thats from the extreme left, not 'lefties' in general. Also a lot of it depends on quite how you put your views across. For example saying 'I am concerned about the effects current levels of immigration have on our country' is very different that 'immigrants are taking all of our houses and jobs'.

In short, yes some people do claim things are 'bigotted' or 'phobic' or whatever for nothing. However people claiming this are generally just extremists of left leaning views. Just like how you get extreme right leaning people..



...this is exactly what I mean, it's generalising both ways so 'pc' either isn't applicable in the way it's being said or it's applicable to all and so it goes back and forth in its communication, which for me is the real truth and real issue...and I agree also, I don't think anything restricts views (for most people whatever the views of others if they are opposed in thoughts..)...but maybe there are times that those views are either not being conveyed in the best way or are not having enough thought in what's actually being said...and too much generalising...we all generalise at times, but different views and opinions are being pigeon holed and labelled...and 'PC' has just become another label which has lost meaning and become another insult/type thing when it was only ever there as a meaning to protect against extremes...if people have valid reasons for their concerns and worries etc, no matter if not agreed with they would still be understood by most and fair enough etc but when things are just 'thrown out there' with no reasoning and are very negative in appearance then they'll be questioned and receive negativity back at those views...

[Brillopad]

Can those who say that PC is evil and whatnot, give an example of things you would like to be able to say without being called bigots? Things that you think are not bigoted but would be shut down with claims of racist and such? I feel this could help the debate somewhat.

I will start by what I meant in an earlier post, about how I feel sometimes 'PC gone mad' is actually true, without bigotry on behalf of the person saying things. It is 'transphobic' and 'bigoted' to claim males can never become females. And vice versa. It is 'transphobic' to say women get pregnant, or that men have penises. It is 'bigoted' to claim that males do not menstruate. This is utterly mental IMO. And a very good example of what I assume some people mean when they say 'PC gorn maaaaad'. Sometimes that line is uttered by racists/sexists and so on. But often bigot is applied to anyone who does not go along with the current 'liberal' thinking, regardless of how mental said thinking is.

Also yes, sometimes even speaking of immigration is shouted down as racism/xenophobia. I have seen this often. But thats from the extreme left, not 'lefties' in general. Also a lot of it depends on quite how you put your views across. For example saying 'I am concerned about the effects current levels of immigration have on our country' is very different that 'immigrants are taking all of our houses and jobs'.

In short, yes some people do claim things are 'bigotted' or 'phobic' or whatever for nothing. However people claiming this are generally just extremists of left leaning views. Just like how you get extreme right leaning people..

It seems to me that the mere mention of concerns about too much immigration and the negative effects this can have on the country are immediately jumped on by some posters who start using words such as bigot, racist etc.

That immediately gets people's backs up and it is often downhill from there. People should be able to debate this massive issue without such nonsense. People will always disagree, but to try to shut down the 'opposition' in this way achieves nothing

[Ammi]

It seems to me that the mere mention of concerns about too much immigration and the negative effects this can have on the country are immediately jumped on by some posters who start using words such as bigot, racist etc.

That immediately gets people's backs up and it is often downhill from there. People should be able to debate this massive issue without such nonsense. People will always disagree, but to try to shut down the 'opposition' in this way achieves nothing

..and the same with hand wringing/bleeding hearts and those who live in a dreamworld and left loonies etc..(I can't recall all of the labels without finding some threads but I promise you it's very much there...)...and the problem is in seeing one but not seeing the other and it's often pre-empted as well in things like...the loony lefts/bleeding hearts will come in and be saying etc etc..)...in a very hostile way when a 'bleeding heart' hasn't even posted yet..:laugh:.../it's honestly wrong to see one and not the other ....neither should be used and both make the issue an issue and make for 'PC'...(incorrectly to what it is meant to be and that is to protect, which I'm sure that we're all in agreement with, that minority groups who do receive prejudice, should be protected..)...

[Northern Monkey]

It seems to me that the mere mention of concerns about too much immigration and the negative effects this can have on the country are immediately jumped on by some posters who start using words such as bigot, racist etc.

That immediately gets people's backs up and it is often downhill from there. People should be able to debate this massive issue without such nonsense. People will always disagree, but to try to shut down the 'opposition' in this way achieves nothing

That is a common tried and true tactic used by many on the left to stop any debate being had.They think if they shout racist at you then they've just taken some moral high ground over you and it makes their view more valid somehow.Or they'll do it when they don't have any real logic or facts to counter.The problem is that it dilutes the word and real racism may be overlooked.After years of this people are now finally sick of being accused of being prejudiced for bringing up legitimate issues and the lefties who are perpetuating this are looking more and more ridiculous.

[jet]

This is a good thing really.

Of course it's a good thing that Trump has gone soft on several issues, and thank goodness for it, but will it be seen as a good thing by those that voted for him and his hateful pledges?

[the truth]

The left need to justify their slander for decades and spin and false accusations, they lied about iraq, they lied about the mrsa in hospitals, they lied about arming rebels, they lied about bankrupting the treasury. They need to apologise to everyone and wise up and realise false accusation and spin were evil temporary tactics than won them cheap votes. now they have been outed. everyone sees through it and if they cannot apologise and simply stop it dead in its tracks. they will always be known as the loony left and they will disappear into a bigger black hole than the lib dems

[Vicky.]

..and the same with hand wringing/bleeding hearts and those who live in a dreamworld and left loonies etc..(I can't recall all of the labels without finding some threads but I promise you it's very much there...)...and the problem is in seeing one but not seeing the other and it's often pre-empted as well in things like...the loony lefts/bleeding hearts will come in and be saying etc etc..)...in a very hostile way when a 'bleeding heart' hasn't even posted yet..:laugh:.../it's honestly wrong to see one and not the other ....neither should be used and both make the issue an issue and make for 'PC'...(incorrectly to what it is meant to be and that is to protect, which I'm sure that we're all in agreement with, that minority groups who do receive prejudice, should be protected..)...

Indeed. I can see both sides of this. Not sure if this makes me just unbiased or more 'middle' than I thought :laugh: Some left leaning people scream racism at anyone voicing concerns. Some right leaning people go the opposite way and blast anyone with a differing opinion as a 'loony lefty' or indeed..bleeding heart. Its ridiculous and people seem to just be able to see one or the other, when I (and you seemingly ammi...) see both.`

This has been a huge issue over the months especially in this section. Selective reading. It should be possible to have a debate without insulting or generalizing everyone. We used to be able to do that here anyway. SD is just a mess recently and it annoys me as this was one of my fave sections of the site, but now its the same repetitive garbage, insults and such over and over again and it is offputting to everyone really.

[the truth]

Indeed. I can see both sides of this. Not sure if this makes me just unbiased or more 'middle' than I thought :laugh: Some left leaning people scream racism at anyone voicing concerns. Some right leaning people go the opposite way and blast anyone with a differing opinion as a 'loony lefty' or indeed..bleeding heart. Its ridiculous and people seem to just be able to see one or the other, when I (and you seemingly ammi...) see both.`

This has been a huge issue over the months especially in this section. Selective reading. It should be possible to have a debate without insulting or generalizing everyone. We used to be able to do that here anyway. SD is just a mess recently and it annoys me as this was one of my fave sections of the site, but now its the same repetitive garbage, insults and such over and over again and it is offputting to everyone really.

ONLY left wingers have personally attacked posters in this thread

[Brillopad]

..and the same with hand wringing/bleeding hearts and those who live in a dreamworld and left loonies etc..(I can't recall all of the labels without finding some threads but I promise you it's very much there...)...and the problem is in seeing one but not seeing the other and it's often pre-empted as well in things like...the loony lefts/bleeding hearts will come in and be saying etc etc..)...in a very hostile way when a 'bleeding heart' hasn't even posted yet..:laugh:.../it's honestly wrong to see one and not the other ....neither should be used and both make the issue an issue and make for 'PC'...(incorrectly to what it is meant to be and that is to protect, which I'm sure that we're all in agreement with, that minority groups who do receive prejudice, should be protected..)...

I don't disagree with what you say but people's definition on who exactly is a minority and the blurred lines on who exactly is being prejudice to whom is a minefield.

When some describe a group as being subject to prejudice, a group who themselves subject another group to prejudice' - things are clearly not as cut and dried as some make out.

[Vicky.]

ONLY left wingers have personally attacked posters in this thread

'can Trump free us all from this insane liberal PC straight jacket' in your OP. Not a personal attack, but still a generalization of 'liberals'. Statements such as this tend to attract attacks back from those you dismissed as 'insane'. And round the circle goes again...

Also I am not sure where I claimed only in this thread. All over serious debates.

[the truth]

I don't disagree with what you say but people's definition on who exactly is a minority and the blurred lines on who exactly is being prejudice to whom is a minefield.

When some describe a group as being subject to prejudice, a group who themselves subject another group to prejudice' - things are clearly not as cut and dried as some make out.

why are there different councils for muslims and gypsies? why does our national tv broadcaster make a show mocking Christ as a drunken pervert , yet when confronted with making a satirical play on Muhammad it pulls the plug for fera of retribution as weve seen across the world. we are cowardly spineless cowards who cow tow and give in to bullies. If you stand for nothing, you fall for anything!

[Vicky.]

I don't disagree with what you say but people's definition on who exactly is a minority and the blurred lines on who exactly is being prejudice to whom is a minefield.

When some describe a group as being subject to prejudice, a group who themselves subject another group to prejudice' - things are clearly not as cut and dried as some make out.

I don't really subscribe to this 'which group is a minority' stuff to be quite honest. I tend to find being respectful in general stops (most) accusations of being bigoted. I disagree with the 'left leaning crowd' on here on a fair few issues but I seem to be able to disagree without insulting them. Same as I can disagree with the 'right leaning crowd' without yelling racist or homophobe at them.

Attempts to shut down conversation, especially in the serious debates section is stupid really. Unless someone says something really offensive of course.

[the truth]

'can Trump free us all from this insane liberal PC straight jacket' in your OP. Not a personal attack, but still a generalization of 'liberals'. Statements such as this tend to attract attacks back from those you dismissed as 'insane'. And round the circle goes again...

Also I am not sure where I claimed only in this thread. All over serious debates.

lol Youre going out of your way now to find offence in something that wasnt even there. It is a liberal straight jacket and your choosing to take offence or feigning to do so is straight from the liberal playbook. wholly transparent and totally ineffective.

[Northern Monkey]

'can Trump free us all from this insane liberal PC straight jacket' in your OP. Not a personal attack, but still a generalization of 'liberals'. Statements such as this tend to attract attacks back from those you dismissed as 'insane'. And round the circle goes again...

Also I am not sure where I claimed only in this thread. All over serious debates.Don't forget this corker-

'This, the ONLY people who cry political correctness are those who are attempting to denigrate a sub section of society and are desperate to make it appealing to another.'

[Vicky.]

lol Youre going out of your way now to find offence in something that wasnt even there. It is a liberal straight jacket and your choosing to take offence or feigning to do so is straight from the liberal playbook. wholly transparent and totally ineffective.

I am not trying to find offense :joker: I am pointing out how its just constant and obviously how a thread opening with a statement like that will immediately get peoples backs up...

[Brillopad]

Don't forget this corker-

'This, the ONLY people who cry political correctness are those who are attempting to denigrate a sub section of society and are desperate to make it appealing to another.'

Corker indeed! The arrogance and closed-mindset is a good example.

[Vicky.]

Don't forget this corker-

'This, the ONLY people who cry political correctness are those who are attempting to denigrate a sub section of society and are desperate to make it appealing to another.'

...

Would you like me to go through all posts made in this section pointing out which are insulting to many people? I was speaking generally, across this entire board. I thought I made it quite clear in my post that this is not an attack on either 'left' or 'right' and that both sides have people in the wrong

[the truth]

I am not trying to find offense :joker: I am pointing out how its just constant and obviously how a thread opening with a statement like that will immediately get peoples backs up...

ONLY for those looking to find and take offense. the left need to realise just because they play the PC card and choose to take offense, doesnt mean they are in fact right.

[the truth]

Corker indeed! The arrogance and closed-mindset is a good example.
yep that left wing poster labelled millions of people just as clinton labelled tens of millions as sexist racist islamophobic homophobic...typical cheap slander from the left

[Northern Monkey]

...

Would you like me to go through all posts made in this section pointing out which are insulting to many people? I was speaking generally, across this entire board. I thought I made it quite clear in my post that this is not an attack on either 'left' or 'right' and that both sides have people in the wrong

Just adding some balance.
'Insane liberal straight jacket' is an opinion on the state of the political landscape.
The post i quoted was an attack on anyone who thinks political correctness has gone too far.Implying that 'the ONLY people' who think PC has gone too far(many posters in this thread) are 'attempting to denigrate a subsection of society'.That is a bold and slanderous claim.
I Personally do not want to denigrate anybody.

[Vicky.]

ONLY for those looking to find and take offense. the left need to realise just because they play the PC card and choose to take offense, doesnt mean they are in fact right.

Do you not see how holding all 'lefties' responsible for a few loons who scream (for example) racism at every opportunity is offensive?

Or put another way, would you find it offensive if ALL right leaning people were declared bigoted...or insane in an opening post? Actually I am sure I remember you kicking off (rightly) when some posters declared all UKIP voters racist. So I guess thats my question answered.

I think you just like to argue with me to be honest, especially given I am bloody agreeing with you on this topic anyway :laugh2:

[Vicky.]

You know what. **** it. I am still in the wrong even when I agree with people so whats the point. Carry on generalizing each other, moaning and constantly insulting each other. As you were..

[Ammi]

Indeed. I can see both sides of this. Not sure if this makes me just unbiased or more 'middle' than I thought :laugh: Some left leaning people scream racism at anyone voicing concerns. Some right leaning people go the opposite way and blast anyone with a differing opinion as a 'loony lefty' or indeed..bleeding heart. Its ridiculous and people seem to just be able to see one or the other, when I (and you seemingly ammi...) see both.`

This has been a huge issue over the months especially in this section. Selective reading. It should be possible to have a debate without insulting or generalizing everyone. We used to be able to do that here anyway. SD is just a mess recently and it annoys me as this was one of my fave sections of the site, but now its the same repetitive garbage, insults and such over and over again and it is offputting to everyone really.

I don't disagree with what you say but people's definition on who exactly is a minority and the blurred lines on who exactly is being prejudice to whom is a minefield.

When some describe a group as being subject to prejudice, a group who themselves subject another group to prejudice' - things are clearly not as cut and dried as some make out.



...(sorry, I was making a thread and had to go to get dinner so I was a bit distracted there..)...but yeah, there really is no 'burred lines' with it at all in voicing opinions, concerns which are very relevant and valid...there will always be other perspectives to any opinions and any points..(especially on the more controversial topics..).. and all should equally be respected even if/when completely opposed to because opposing/differing opinions are really what debates are all about anyway... so we most definitely need them but we're all grown ups, we all know when we're being personal and we all create and are responsible for our own 'PC', no matter what any responses may be...because those responses aren't things that we can control but taking our own responsibilities for our own words and opinions etc..?.../nothing becomes blurred at all, it actually is the opposite and becomes clearer and easier to communicate ourselves...

[the truth]

Do you not see how holding all 'lefties' responsible for a few loons who scream (for example) racism at every opportunity is offensive?

Or put another way, would you find it offensive if ALL right leaning people were declared bigoted...or insane in an opening post? Actually I am sure I remember you kicking off (rightly) when some posters declared all UKIP voters racist. So I guess thats my question answered.

I think you just like to argue with me to be honest, especially given I am bloody agreeing with you on this topic anyway :laugh2:

Political correctness was 100% an evil invention of the left

[Brillopad]

[QUOTE=Ammi;9057143]...(sorry, I was making a thread and had to go to get dinner so I was a bit distracted there..)...but yeah, there really is no 'burred lines' with it at all in voicing opinions, concerns which are very relevant and valid...there will always be other perspectives to any opinions and any points..(especially on the more controversial topics..).. and all should equally be respected even if/when completely opposed to because opposing/differing opinions are really what debates are all about anyway... so we most definitely need them but we're all grown ups, we all know when we're being personal and we all create and are responsible for our own 'PC', no matter what any responses may be...because those responses aren't things that we can control but taking our own responsibilities for our own words and opinions etc..?.../nothing becomes blurred at all, it actually is the opposite and becomes clearer and easier to communicate ourselves...[/QUO

I feel that many Western countries,including America And Britain, became too focused on being the 'Bigger person' (more civilised) and have hence become too fearful of criticising certain religious groups and their practices within their own borders.

As a result they have failed to address the bigotry and prejudice going on within those groups toward others whilst at the same time preaching tolerance and understanding to the rest of us. Those buying into that, likely for the same reason, add insult to injury by having the nerve to insult those less blind to these blatant double-standards.

It comes down to people wanting to feel 'better than that' which to me suggests insecurity. If intolerance is wrong then it is wrong for everyone. I do not believe in one rule for one person/group and another for others. We get taken for mugs - probably deservedly so.

Part of Trumps appeal was his refusal to play this game and his willingness to call a spade a spade. After all he doesn't NEED a political career or fame and fortune, he already has all those things, he can afford to speak his mind. Quite a refreshing change. At least we know where we are with him.

[the truth]

I think seeing the great bobby deniro stoop so low in the midst of the hollywood liberal mess was a real low for me. The mere fact the great man chose to try and highlight how bad trump was by being just as bad or worse, just highlighted what a mess we are really in.

[Ammi]

I feel that many Western countries,including America And Britain, became too focused on being the 'Bigger person' (more civilised) and have hence become too fearful of criticising certain religious groups and their practices within their own borders.

As a result they have failed to address the bigotry and prejudice going on within those groups toward others whilst at the same time preaching tolerance and understanding to the rest of us. Those buying into that, likely for the same reason, add insult to injury by having the nerve to insult those less blind to these blatant double-standards.

It comes down to people wanting to feel 'better than that' which to me suggests insecurity. If intolerance is wrong then it is wrong for everyone. I do not believe in one rule for one person/group and another for others. We get taken for mugs - probably deservedly so.



...see that's where I close down a bit in debates../forum wise..(sorry..)...but yes I do agree that if wrong/then wrong both ways...'buying into' suggests gullibility and 'those less blind' suggests a feeling 'better than', which is what you seem to see as 'PC' .../I mean really the very thing exactly...and just not conducive to communication and opinions being heard as well as being spoken..

[Johnnyuk123]

I think seeing the great bobby deniro stoop so low in the midst of the hollywood liberal mess was a real low for me. The mere fact the great man chose to try and highlight how bad trump was by being just as bad or worse, just highlighted what a mess we are really in.

He was on tv the other day and the presenter asked him if he would do what he said in the video and punch Donald Trump. He said... erm i can't now cos he's the president elect. :joker:

[Brillopad]

...see that's where I close down a bit in debates../forum wise..(sorry..)...but yes I do agree that if wrong/then wrong both ways...'buying into' suggests gullibility and 'those less blind' suggests a feeling 'better than', which is what you seem to see as 'PC' .../I mean really the very thing exactly...and just not conducive to communication and opinions being heard as well as being spoken..

Fair point! Poor choice of words maybe, but I think you know what I mean.

Although, some are more gullible than others - maybe because they simply want to believe this or maybe because some are less inclined to accept double standards, whatever the individual reasons I think the degree of political correctness in this country is stifling and has not done our country any favours.

The powers that be need to wake-up before its to late in my opinion.

[Withano]

You are honestly arguing for your own freedom of speech whilst suggesting that Lefts shouldn't write or speak the way that they do.

Your argument is ridiculous and terribly thought out.

[Shaun]

Long story short: no.

[Ammi]

Fair point! Poor choice of words maybe, but I think you know what I mean.

Although, some are more gullible than others - maybe because they simply want to believe this or maybe because some are less inclined to accept double standards, whatever the individual reasons I think the degree of political correctness in this country is stifling and has not done our country any favours.

The powers that be need to wake-up before its to late in my opinion.

..there is double standards from everyone though because we're all human and we all evaluate on individual situations etc and factor many things into what our perspective is/dependant on the differences that we may allow for in one but not a similar thing because very few things are exactly the same thing...for instance, Trump is the result of..?...the result of PC and restricting voices so they build and build etc in their fears and worries about immigration for instance..?...but then, the voices of those who protested after the result because of their fears and worries of Trump as president in their country, were very much met with a ughhhhh, just get on with it and hush up.../so it's the same story and if that story is PC and PC has been the cause and the problem, then we're all PC so I just don't get the 'PC problem' at all..but the only answer to that is more tolerance basically and to allow people to express equally..(so long as it isn't hate filled/prejudice etc..)...

[Ithinkiloveyoutoo]

Been dead for a while love
xFCg6E30Npk

[Brillopad]

..there is double standards from everyone though because we're all human and we all evaluate on individual situations etc and factor many things into what our perspective is/dependant on the differences that we may allow for in one but not a similar thing because very few things are exactly the same thing...for instance, Trump is the result of..?...the result of PC and restricting voices so they build and build etc in their fears and worries about immigration for instance..?...but then, the voices of those who protested after the result because of their fears and worries of Trump as president in their country, were very much met with a ughhhhh, just get on with it and hush up.../so it's the same story and if that story is PC and PC has been the cause and the problem, then we're all PC so I just don't get the 'PC problem' at all..but the only answer to that is more tolerance basically and to allow people to express equally..(so long as it isn't hate filled/prejudice etc..)...

The difference to me is that people voted for Trump, mainly out of frustration, in a fair election vote, a time we all get a chance to have our say, both Brexit and Trump.

There is always going to be a winning/losing side, so I think to many it seemed pointless to demonstrate afterwards. It felt that, especially after Ms Miller's successful attempt to interfere with Brexit, the Americans were trying their luck. Did they really think they could overturn an election result through demonstration. It was a democratic vote and if you believe in democracy you respect the result, whether it goes your way or not. I feel sure that had it gone the other way the Clinton supporters would have felt the same way.

It felt more like a massive tantrum than exercising free speech and having their say. After all they had just had their say.

[Jamie89]

Been dead for a while love
xFCg6E30Npk
Omg that's insane D:

[Jack_]

As with most of his other stuff, there's a lot of truth to this:

GLG9g7BcjKs

This is a massive problem that the left needs to address. Western democracies are crying out for political upheavals because thirty years of neoliberalism and globalisation have failed so many communities and left them behind. The divide and rule rhetoric of the far right is succeeding because it is providing disenfranchised people with a means to explain their grievances. Rather than multinational corporations refusing to pay their taxes and bankers recklessly gambling with people's money, it's benefit scrounger Chantelle with her twelve kids down the street that's to blame for the drain on the economy. Rather than a lack of investment in the creation of secure jobs, it's the underpaid and exploited Polish immigrants who are taking your jobs. Rather than the government building more housing, it's Sanjeep and his Muslim buddies who are to blame for you not having somewhere to live. This nasty, divisive and false discourse that absolves the elites of any responsibility is working and will continue to until the left pick themselves up and put together a coherent alternative which resonates with these people and addresses their very real concerns with the actual answers.

Brushing off hundreds of thousands of disenfranchised people as 'racist' and 'sexist' (even though these will account for some of the Trump and Brexit voters) is reductionist nonsense that only seeks to push people away further. You don't win a debate by shutting people down. The bottom line of all this is that the Democrats picked the wrong candidate in a political climate that was quite clearly tired of establishment dynasties that represent more of the same.

All that said, there's also a lot of truth to some of the points raised in this thread. 'PC gone mad!!!!' is often translated as 'wah wah wah my outdated opinion isn't considered acceptable anymore, why won't people agree with me :( :( :('. As others have said, freedom of speech (much like democracy) works two ways. You are entitled to say what you like, but others are free to criticise what you said. Freedom of speech is not equal to 'freedom to say what I like and no one can challenge me'.

Finally, it's also worth pointing out for the umpteenth time that Hillary ****ing Clinton of all people does not represent 'the left', nor does any genuine lefty support 'corporate takeovers' or illegal wars. Such depictions are completely misguided.

[Jamie89]

But I suppose I'd be a loony lefty throwing around buzzwords and pandering to PC if I called that man a racist

[Ammi]

The difference to me is that people voted for Trump, mainly out of frustration, in a fair election vote, a time we all get a chance to have our say, both Brexit and Trump.

There is always going to be a winning/losing side, so I think to many it seemed pointless to demonstrate afterwards. It felt that, especially after Ms Miller's successful attempt to interfere with Brexit, the Americans were trying their luck. Did they really think they could overturn an election result through demonstration. It was a democratic vote and if you believe in democracy you respect the result, whether it goes your way or not. I feel sure that had it gone the other way the Clinton supporters would have felt the same way.

It felt more like a massive tantrum than exercising free speech and having their say. After all they had just had their say.



..no of course not but there was a need to express worries and concerns and also discontent and isn't that what is just being said is the cause, that people have felt stifled and so that's led to extreme frustration...it was a peaceful protest/just a need to have a voice heard...and in both cases there is also a large percentage of population of voters that were extremely disappointed.../Hilary being the popular vote and the higher amount of votes and Brexit being almost 50/50...so a huge amount of concerns and a huge amount of worries and a huge amount of discontent/much the same as people have talked about with the immigration situation and what is being said that those voices should be allowed their release so if that's the believe that PC has restricted that then it's also advocating a silencing in other situations so being PC itself..neither being double standard or both being double standard equally... and if it's believed that 'pc' is the problem to solve or ever has been then it's nowhere near being solved as the 'evil political correctness'...

[Northern Monkey]

As with most of his other stuff, there's a lot of truth to this:

GLG9g7BcjKs

This is a massive problem that the left needs to address. Western democracies are crying out for political upheavals because thirty years of neoliberalism and globalisation have failed so many communities and left them behind. The divide and rule rhetoric of the far right is succeeding because it is providing disenfranchised people with a means to explain their grievances. Rather than multinational corporations refusing to pay their taxes and bankers recklessly gambling with people's money, it's benefit scrounger Chantelle with her twelve kids down the street that's to blame for the drain on the economy. Rather than a lack of investment in the creation of secure jobs, it's the underpaid and exploited Polish immigrants who are taking your jobs. Rather than the government building more housing, it's Sanjeep and his Muslim buddies who are to blame for you not having somewhere to live. This nasty, divisive and false discourse that absolves the elites of any responsibility is working and will continue to until the left pick themselves up and put together a coherent alternative which resonates with these people and addresses their very real concerns with the actual answers.

Brushing off hundreds of thousands of disenfranchised people as 'racist' and 'sexist' (even though these will account for some of the Trump and Brexit voters) is reductionist nonsense that only seeks to push people away further. You don't win a debate by shutting people down. The bottom line of all this is that the Democrats picked the wrong candidate in a political climate that was quite clearly tired of establishment dynasties that represent more of the same.

All that said, there's also a lot of truth to some of the points raised in this thread. 'PC gone mad!!!!' is often translated as 'wah wah wah my outdated opinion isn't considered acceptable anymore, why won't people agree with me :( :( :('. As others have said, freedom of speech (much like democracy) works two ways. You are entitled to say what you like, but others are free to criticise what you said. Freedom of speech is not equal to 'freedom to say what I like and no one can challenge me'.

Finally, it's also worth pointing out for the umpteenth time that Hillary ****ing Clinton of all people does not represent 'the left', nor does any genuine lefty support 'corporate takeovers' or illegal wars. Such depictions are completely misguided.
What a cracking post and great video:thumbs:

[Northern Monkey]

Been dead for a while love
xFCg6E30Npk

That guy's a disgrace.

[Northern Monkey]

But I suppose I'd be a loony lefty throwing around buzzwords and pandering to PC if I called that man a racist

That guy is without doubt 100% racist.I must be loony left too then:laugh:

[the truth]

yes he's a racist

[Tom4784]

ALL opinions come with consequences, if you have views that come across as bigoted then people can rightly call you out on it and vice versa. If you can't handle the consequences of your opinion then that's on you.

[joeysteele]

As with most of his other stuff, there's a lot of truth to this:

GLG9g7BcjKs

This is a massive problem that the left needs to address. Western democracies are crying out for political upheavals because thirty years of neoliberalism and globalisation have failed so many communities and left them behind. The divide and rule rhetoric of the far right is succeeding because it is providing disenfranchised people with a means to explain their grievances. Rather than multinational corporations refusing to pay their taxes and bankers recklessly gambling with people's money, it's benefit scrounger Chantelle with her twelve kids down the street that's to blame for the drain on the economy. Rather than a lack of investment in the creation of secure jobs, it's the underpaid and exploited Polish immigrants who are taking your jobs. Rather than the government building more housing, it's Sanjeep and his Muslim buddies who are to blame for you not having somewhere to live. This nasty, divisive and false discourse that absolves the elites of any responsibility is working and will continue to until the left pick themselves up and put together a coherent alternative which resonates with these people and addresses their very real concerns with the actual answers.

Brushing off hundreds of thousands of disenfranchised people as 'racist' and 'sexist' (even though these will account for some of the Trump and Brexit voters) is reductionist nonsense that only seeks to push people away further. You don't win a debate by shutting people down. The bottom line of all this is that the Democrats picked the wrong candidate in a political climate that was quite clearly tired of establishment dynasties that represent more of the same.

All that said, there's also a lot of truth to some of the points raised in this thread. 'PC gone mad!!!!' is often translated as 'wah wah wah my outdated opinion isn't considered acceptable anymore, why won't people agree with me :( :( :('. As others have said, freedom of speech (much like democracy) works two ways. You are entitled to say what you like, but others are free to criticise what you said. Freedom of speech is not equal to 'freedom to say what I like and no one can challenge me'.

Finally, it's also worth pointing out for the umpteenth time that Hillary ****ing Clinton of all people does not represent 'the left', nor does any genuine lefty support 'corporate takeovers' or illegal wars. Such depictions are completely misguided.

Amazing post again Jack_, I have nothing to add to it, really well said.
Except to agree with jet too, Trump is tearing down just about all he said in the election, I am now just waiting to see when he gets round to dropping his original plans on trading deals too.

His dropping so much will make for a better Presidency in my view but a lot of the crowd that voted for him are going to be sorely disappointed at how weak he may become.

[Johnnyuk123]

Obamacare was just reported on the news with the president elect. Donald is getting rid of it. :thumbs:

[Johnnyuk123]

Nigel Farage now talking to the President elect. B n Q might get the contract to provide bricks for the Mexican border. Great news for the UK. :fc:

[Brillopad]

ALL opinions come with consequences, if you have views that come across as bigoted then people can rightly call you out on it and vice versa. If you can't handle the consequences of your opinion then that's on you.

Who said they couldn't handle it? Seems to me it's those that throw the word around all the time in an attempt to close down opinions they don't like that can't handle it.

People should be able to debate issues without resorting to name calling - kid's stuff.

[Cherie]

Who said they couldn't handle it? Seems to me it's those that throw the word around all the time in an attempt to close down opinions they don't like that can't handle it.

People should be able to debate issues without resorting to name calling - kid's stuff.

:clap1:

[jet]

Obamacare was just reported on the news with the president elect. Donald is getting rid of it. :thumbs:

On the news I just watched (Sky) it said Trump suggested he may now row back on his pledge to completely scrap Obamacare. :conf:

Obama did all the work and it looks like Trump is going to keep the best bits - which is a good thing...he must be getting his eyes well and truly opened just now...

[joeysteele]

On the news I just watched (Sky) it said Trump suggested he may now row back on his pledge to completely scrap Obamacare. :conf:

Obama did all the work and it looks like Trump is going to keep the best bits - which is a good thing...he must be getting his eyes well and truly opened just now...

He is probably keeping 2 of the really main elements of it jet, the point is he has not said what he will replace it with anyway.
In the end probably a slightly watered down Obama plan with the really best bits kept as you point out.

Trump is,I think, going to be controlled by his party,he will be President but he is so ill prepared for it, he will have to go along with advice, with most of his loudmouthed prejudiced rhetoric going on the back burner hopefully.

[Tom4784]

Who said they couldn't handle it? Seems to me it's those that throw the word around all the time in an attempt to close down opinions they don't like that can't handle it.

People should be able to debate issues without resorting to name calling - kid's stuff.

Yet you have no problem with stock phrases such as 'loony left'...

I think it's fairly evident that people who cry about PC cannot accept that their opinions have consequences, as do all. They want to air their views and be celebrated for it and they don't want to be challenged on their views. They want to have their cake and eat it basically.

It's not a question of Freedom of Speech but of self entitlement and people thinking that FoS is a one way street. No one can claim that their rights are being infringed and then try to shut down opinions they don't agree with by claiming Freedom of Speech.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone is entitled to challenge that opinion.

[Brillopad]

Yet you have no problem with stock phrases such as 'loony left'...

I think it's fairly evident that people who cry about PC cannot accept that their opinions have consequences, as do all. They want to air their views and be celebrated for it and they don't want to be challenged on their views. They want to have their cake and eat it basically.

It's not a question of Freedom of Speech but of self entitlement and people thinking that FoS is a one way street. No one can claim that their rights are being infringed and then try to shut down opinions they don't agree with by claiming Freedom of Speech.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone is entitled to challenge that opinion.

Challenge through debate, not name-calling, that's lazy.

[Tom4784]

Challenge through debate, not name-calling, that's lazy.

It's also incredibly lazy to home in on what is a meaningless point to try to claw the high road while at the same time ignoring the parts of the post you can't argue against.

[Cherie]

Yet you have no problem with stock phrases such as 'loony left'...

I think it's fairly evident that people who cry about PC cannot accept that their opinions have consequences, as do all. They want to air their views and be celebrated for it and they don't want to be challenged on their views. They want to have their cake and eat it basically.

It's not a question of Freedom of Speech but of self entitlement and people thinking that FoS is a one way street. No one can claim that their rights are being infringed and then try to shut down opinions they don't agree with by claiming Freedom of Speech.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion and everyone is entitled to challenge that opinion.


Indeed

[Brillopad]

It's also incredibly lazy to home in on what is a meaningless point to try to claw the high road while at the same time ignoring the parts of the post you can't argue against.

I ignored nothing, I just had no other comments to make on your post.

[jet]

ALL opinions come with consequences, if you have views that come across as bigoted then people can rightly call you out on it and vice versa. If you can't handle the consequences of your opinion then that's on you.

Yep.
But it seems the much desired non - PC free speech doesn't extend to being free to call someone bigoted. Or racist, or sexist etc. It stops short right there. Someone should be able to say what they want in the name of free speech, apparently, but if someone else exercises their right and calls the person a bigot etc because that is their opinion of the persons view then... WHOA!...how dare you say THAT..selective free speech only allowed...:hee:

[Brillopad]

Yep.
But it seems the much desired non - PC free speech doesn't extend to being free to call someone bigoted. Or racist, or sexist etc. It stops short right there. Someone should be able to say what they want in the name of free speech, apparently, but if someone else exercises their right and calls the person a bigot etc because that is their opinion of the persons view then... WHOA!...how dare you say THAT..selective free speech only allowed...:hee:

Over-dramatic nonsense. I haven't seen anything on here that warranted being called a bigot. That's just the point, certain people throw that word around too easily - just a lazy response for someone with a weak argument.

[jet]

Over-dramatic nonsense. I haven't seen anything on here that warranted being called a bigot. That's just the point, certain people throw that word around too easily - just a lazy response for someone with a weak argument.

But that is your opinion. If someone else thinks a person's views are bigoted, or racist, or sexist etc, surely they should be free to say so - in the name of free speech?
What is not seen as bigoted, racist etc to one person may not seem that way to another...you get 'all - sorts' on a forum. If controversial views are given in the name of free speech, then take free speech on the chin in return instead of calling it 'lazy' if that is someones opinion. It works both ways. :shrug:

[Brillopad]

But that is your opinion. If someone else thinks a person is being bigoted, or racist, or sexist etc, surely they should be free to say so - in the name of free speech?
What is not seen as bigoted, racist etc to one person may not seem that way to another...you get 'all - sorts' on a forum. If controversial views are given in the name of free speech, then take free speech on the chin in return if that is someones opinion. It works both ways. :shrug:

Based on your theory we can all go round calling each other whatever we like based on a person's unreasonable, biased opinion. It's like being in the playground.

Besides words like bigot and racist have a specific meaning, they are not dictated by personal opinion. I don't hear people blatantly using offensive words such as 'queer' so why do some people think it is ok to use offensive words such as 'bigot'. These are clear double standards.

[Tom4784]

Over-dramatic nonsense. I haven't seen anything on here that warranted being called a bigot. That's just the point, certain people throw that word around too easily - just a lazy response for someone with a weak argument.

Just because you've chosen not to see something as bigoted doesn't mean other people can't.

Based on your theory we can all go round calling each other whatever we like based on a person's unreasonable, biased opinion. It's like being in the playground.

Besides words like bigot and racist have a specific meaning, they are not dictated by personal opinion. I don't hear people blatantly using offensive words such as 'queer' so why do some people think it is ok to use offensive words such as 'bigot'. These are clear double standards.

This is basically you trying to restrict other people's opinions which is ironic considering that you are arguing against PC.

Bigot and Racist do have specific meanings but that doesn't mean that people can't apply them when they deem it necessary and apt. You aren't the grand overseer over what is offensive and what isn't.

[jet]

Based on your theory we can all go round calling each other whatever we like based on a person's unreasonable, biased opinion. It's like being in the playground.

Besides words like bigot and racist have a specific meaning, they are not dictated by personal opinion. I don't hear people blatantly using offensive words such as 'queer' so why do some people think it is ok to use offensive words such as 'bigot'. These are clear double standards.

And based on your theory we can all go around having inflammatory offensive bigoted views and no - one dare call a spade a spade. Let a person say what they like and if someone says their views are bigoted they can cry 'lazy' and 'offensive'. That is a clear double standard. Free speech for all, or free speech for none....you can't pick and choose...
For the record, I'm not personally an advocate of the growing trend for 'non - politically correct free speech'. I think sometimes it's just an excuse to be attention seeking and sometimes just plain nasty. Some things are better left unsaid.
But if you gotta say them, then be prepared to take the heat.

[Ammi]

..I don't know it's all very confusing..:laugh:..forum-wise and Hilary/Donald-wise...I mean it's generally not Hilary supporters..(well probably because there are no forum Hilary supporters as such but just those who would have more preferred her than Trump/so seen as the lesser evil type thing..)...who are making threads and wishing to discuss and debate etc...and those threads seem endless in that wish to discuss...so if and when non-Trumps (who will obviously be of a differing opinion..)..speak their voice, I've often seen..oh get over it/sour grapes etc when their not the ones who prompted that discussion or nay opinions in the first place so it's really just opening up and then closing down..?...I mean it just doesn't make sense so does appear to be a double standard...and also a double standard in still being critical and negative/insulting etc about Hilary because she's lost/she's gone/no more as a possibility so why still make negative threads/negative posts etc about her...surely it's a get over it there as well and a get over it with a cherry on top because the person supported has won and claimed the victory...


..but it's never been so far as I can see a Hilary support V Trump support in that (outside of the USA..)...and on the forum, I haven't actually seen any admiration for Hilary as such, rather than just...well I would rather she than....

[the truth]

yet more left wing name calling bigotry in this thread

[jennyjuniper]

I don't thing many would disagree with what you say here Jenny. I certainly wouldn't. But non - PC can also be taken too far....just as PC can be taken too far. It just takes common sense.

This is very true. Common sense should dictate how we approach and deal with things. :wavey:

[jennyjuniper]

...and as for 'effect' and for 'appearance'...well look at Trump and his wall across the Mexican border and his attention seeking start in his campaign...a master of saying what he thinks many want to hear...

Don't ALL politicians say what we want to hear and then go and do what they damn well please Ammi?:shrug:

[Ammi]

Don't ALL politicians say what we want to hear and then go and do what they damn well please Ammi?:shrug:

..indeed they do Jenny..(or many do..)...the context of that was with the 'double standard' thing that was being discussed tough and only what was seen as a 'one-sided' double standard../hypocrisy type thing...of inferring what was being perceived as PC and such a negative in society and 'causing'... was an 'image', an 'effect' rather than people's actual beliefs and being used as a criticism...whilst through his campaign, Trump has been all about image and effect...

[Ammi]

..no more Trump chat for me today though...the best way to move on and accept is...well just to move on and enough...as I said, I can't see the logic of saying get over it, while still prompting so much for it to be talked about...

[kirklancaster]

I believe that Donald Trump is a lot more intelligent and knowledgeable than some might credit him for.

I think that Donald Trump not only REALISED that the best way to change a deeply flawed, very corrupt political system is from the INSIDE not from the 'outside looking in'.

I am surprised that this is not more evident to some people here in the UK - ESPECIALLY those who spent long months opposing Brexit and crying how it is better to change the EU from the inside by remaining a member - a very . misguided proposal which is not feasible by the way, due to the particular way that the EU is structured.

Trump also recognised that the best way to become President and 'get inside' was by identifying the mood of the majority of American people, listening to their concerns and frustrations, then making the right noises which resonated with that majority to give himself the optimum chance of gaining their votes.

I said from the start when some other members were denigrating Trump and citing his 'political virginity' as a reason he should not be President, that Trump would be surrounded by very seasoned, very experienced advisors and subordinates, and that his lack of political experience was not a disadvantage.

Now that Trump is 'IN', he can modify his pre-Election statements of intent - as ALL politicians do - and, guided by those very same seasoned advisors and experienced subordinates, he can actually begin to do the job he was elected to do, and in a manner that is calculated to afford him the greatest chance of success in doing it.

Modifying his pre-Election strategy does not automatically render him 'guilty' in any way of 'betraying' those who voted for him based chiefly on that strategy, if Trump realises the very same objectives but by a different, more moderate and feasible route.

The prevailing political climate in the USA is eerily very similar to the prevailing political climate in the UK, with a huge number of the UK electorate feeling angry at the policies of the Government whilst also feeling neglected, overlooked, and treated with contempt by them and the 'Establishment'.

Unfortunately for the UK electorate, there the similarities end, because unlike the USA - which had what the electorate felt was a viable alternative to the 'Establishment' in Donald Trump - THERE is NO viable alternative to the Tory Government and Establishment in this country, because that electorate do NOT consider Jeremy Corbyn acceptable or electable.

This is a shame for UK Democracy, and perhaps Corbyn - whose politics I do not agree with, but who, I will concede, is sincere in his political passion - would do well to 'take a leaf out of Trump's book' and emulate his strategy in 'modifying' and 'moderating' the 'noises he is making', to give himself a far better chance of actually being elected Prime Minister.

Once on the 'inside' - and then, and only then - could Corbyn actually wield the requisite power to set about implementing the drastic changes necessary to allow him to achieve the type of Britain which he believes in.

I would wager my last penny though - that just as with Trump now - Corbyn would be FORCED to have to modify and moderate his strategy for REAL, in order to actually achieve his desired goals. Baby Steps.

So what of Political Correctness - the next post :hee: because I have been up all night and a hearty breakfast calls. :laugh:.

[Brillopad]

Just because you've chosen not to see something as bigoted doesn't mean other people can't.



This is basically you trying to restrict other people's opinions which is ironic considering that you are arguing against PC.

Bigot and Racist do have specific meanings but that doesn't mean that people can't apply them when they deem it necessary and apt. You aren't the grand overseer over what is offensive and what isn't.

And throwing around put-down words such as 'bigot' isn't trying to restrict other people's opinions- that's exactly why people brought this up in the first place. You have actually proved their point.

No grand overseer, just common sense. People should be pulled up on behaviour that is a blatant attempt at intimidation. Blatant insulting, inflammatory and baiting behaviour.

Look I'm sure most on here aren't intimidated by such obvious behaviour but that doesn' mean they should ignore it. You are just attempting to give the PC brigade free reign.

[Johnnyuk123]

I believe that Donald Trump is a lot more intelligent and knowledgeable than some might credit him for.

I think that Donald Trump not only REALISED that the best way to change a deeply flawed, very corrupt political system is from the INSIDE not from the 'outside looking in'.

I am surprised that this is not more evident to some people here in the UK - ESPECIALLY those who spent long months opposing Brexit and crying how it is better to change the EU from the inside by remaining a member - a very . misguided proposal which is not feasible by the way, due to the particular way that the EU is structured.

Trump also recognised that the best way to become President and 'get inside' was by identifying the mood of the majority of American people, listening to their concerns and frustrations, then making the right noises which resonated with that majority to give himself the optimum chance of gaining their votes.

I said from the start when some other members were denigrating Trump and citing his 'political virginity' as a reason he should not be President, that Trump would be surrounded by very seasoned, very experienced advisors and subordinates, and that his lack of political experience was not a disadvantage.

Now that Trump is 'IN', he can modify his pre-Election statements of intent - as ALL politicians do - and, guided by those very same seasoned advisors and experienced subordinates, he can actually begin to do the job he was elected to do, and in a manner that is calculated to afford him the greatest chance of success in doing it.

Modifying his pre-Election strategy does not automatically render him 'guilty' in any way of 'betraying' those who voted for him based chiefly on that strategy, if Trump realises the very same objectives but by a different, more moderate and feasible route.

The prevailing political climate in the USA is eerily very similar to the prevailing political climate in the UK, with a huge number of the UK electorate feeling angry at the policies of the Government whilst also feeling neglected, overlooked, and treated with contempt by them and the 'Establishment'.

Unfortunately for the UK electorate, there the similarities end, because unlike the USA - which had what the electorate felt was a viable alternative to the 'Establishment' in Donald Trump - THERE is NO viable alternative to the Tory Government and Establishment in this country, because that electorate do NOT consider Jeremy Corbyn acceptable or electable.

This is a shame for UK Democracy, and perhaps Corbyn - whose politics I do not agree with, but who, I will concede, is sincere in his political passion - would do well to 'take a leaf out of Trump's book' and emulate his strategy in 'modifying' and 'moderating' the 'noises he is making', to give himself a far better chance of actually being elected Prime Minister.

Once on the 'inside' - and then, and only then - could Corbyn actually wield the requisite power to set about implementing the drastic changes necessary to allow him to achieve the type of Britain which he believes in.

I would wager my last penny though - that just as with Trump now - Corbyn would be FORCED to have to modify and moderate his strategy for REAL, in order to actually achieve his desired goals. Baby Steps.

So what of Political Correctness - the next post :hee: because I have been up all night and a hearty breakfast calls. :laugh:.



As always another brilliant post Kirk! :clap1:

[Tom4784]

And throwing around put-down words such as 'bigot' isn't trying to restrict other people's opinions- that's exactly why people brought this up in the first place. You have actually proved their point.

No grand overseer, just common sense. People should be pulled up on behaviour that is a blatant attempt at intimidation. Blatant insulting, inflammatory and baiting behaviour.

Look I'm sure most on here aren't intimidated by such obvious behaviour but that doesn' mean they should ignore it. You are just attempting to give the PC brigade free reign.

If a person is going to say bigoted things then they must be prepared to be accused of bigotry. You seem happy enough to accept 'Loony Left' as a description of anyone that isn't Right Wing so why are you picking and choosing?

You can't pretend like you are acting on the interest of Freedom of Speech and then pick and choose what constitutes as Free Speech. It's not common sense at all, you've basically been saying 'I don't find ____offensive so nobody else can either' and 'PC and calling someone racist is against FoS but I'm fine with phrases like 'Loony Left' since they suit my agenda.'

You cannot pick and choose with Freedom of Speech, if you're going to champion it then you can't take issue with the parts that don't suit your own view point.

[Brillopad]

If a person is going to say bigoted things then they must be prepared to be accused of bigotry. You seem happy enough to accept 'Loony Left' as a description of anyone that isn't Right Wing so why are you picking and choosing?

You can't pretend like you are acting on the interest of Freedom of Speech and then pick and choose what constitutes as Free Speech. It's not common sense at all, you've basically been saying 'I don't find ____offensive so nobody else can either' and 'PC and calling someone racist is against FoS but I'm fine with phrases like 'Loony Left' since they suit my agenda.'

You cannot pick and choose with Freedom of Speech, if you're going to champion it then you can't take issue with the parts that don't suit your own view point.

I have not used the expression 'loony left', don't try to hold me accountable for what others say, but you have used the word 'bigot' on several occasions.

It isn't me picking and choosing free speech. Maybe people should be clear on their understanding of the meaning of certain words before chucking them around willy-Nilly and not be too quick to jump on something said and put their interpretation on to the meaning of said comment, something they clearly do for effect.

[Tom4784]

I have not used the expression 'loony left', don't try to hold me accountable for what others say, but you have used the word 'bigot' on several occasions.

It isn't me picking and choosing free speech. Maybe people should be clear on their understanding of the meaning of certain words before chucking them around willy-Nilly and not be too quick to jump on something said and put their interpretation on to the meaning of said comment, something they clearly do for effect.

Ah so you're once again dictating for everyone whether something is bigoted or not. Everyone understands what Bigot and Racist means, they don't need you to dictate when they can use it or not.

[Brillopad]

Ah so you're once again dictating for everyone whether something is bigoted or not. Everyone understands what Bigot and Racist means, they don't need you to dictate when they can use it or not.

They clearly don't know when the evidence is there to apply it, ie voting for Trump does not make someone a bigot. Having concerns about the current level of immigration does not make someone a bigot. Trying to intimidate those that express an opinion not popular with that poster is!

Look if those unable to see want to continue behaving like ill informed gonks, that is their problem, they just make themselves look silly.

Such comments certainly won't intimadate me from having my say.

[Tom4784]

They clearly don't know when the evidence is there to apply it, ie voting for Trump does not make someone a bigot. Having concerns about the current level of immigration does not make someone a bigot. Trying to intimidate those that express an opinion not popular with that poster is!

Look if those unable to see want to continue behaving like ill informed gonks, that is their problem, they just make themselves look silly.

Such comments certainly won't intimadate me from having my say.

Again, you are literally doing what you are guilty of. You complained about people 'intimidating' (lol) others by mentioning bigotry and racism and then you proceed to ATTEMPT shut down anyone with a left leaning opinion by calling them 'ill informed gonks.'

This hypocrisy is too much.

[Brillopad]

Again, you are literally doing what you are guilty of. You complained about people 'intimidating' (lol) others by mentioning bigotry and racism and then you proceed to ATTEMPT shut down anyone with a left leaning opinion by calling them 'ill informed gonks.'

This hypocrisy is too much.

Of course people will often respond to insults with the same. If those of a left-wing persuasion constantly attempt to undermine others with name-calling people will bite back. What do you expect?

Is this only OK for the left leaners?

What were you saying about hypocrisy?

[Tom4784]

Of course people will often respond to insults with the same. If those of a left-wing persuasion constantly attempt to undermine others with name-calling people will bite back. What do you expect?

Is this only OK for the left leaners?

What were you saying about hypocrisy?

This is your first post in this thread.

I think that both brexit and the Trump win clearly demonstrate that the majority of people are fed-up with political correctness. The obvious votes of rebellion and dissatisfaction at the current rate of migration was blatant enough for all to see.

PC is for people who can't think for themselves and try very hard to 'fit-in' with modern so-called 'educated' views. It's all about image with some, people who seem to lack real understanding of how this impacts on the indigenous population, especially when the views of many of these migrants are at odds with the views of the locals. A kind of inverted snobbery.

It is also attempted intimidation of those that don't just blindly follow 'popular' ideology' without question.

You weren't responding to insults in that post you were responding to this post.

People thinking that PC is evil = People who are upset that their opinions no longer reflect that of the majority.

Again, no insults here. You can't pretend to take the highroad and then act like it's okay for you to do things that you belittle others for doing especially when it was you that initiated this little discussion in the first place by responding to me.

Pretty much everything you've said in this thread has been completely hypocritical.

[Brillopad]

This is your first post in this thread.



You weren't responding to insults in that post you were responding to this post.



Again, no insults here. You can't pretend to take the highroad and then act like it's okay for you to do things that you belittle others for doing especially when it was you that initiated this little discussion in the first place by responding to me.

Pretty much everything you've said in this thread has been completely hypocritical.

I'm not talking specifically on this thread, but what I have seen on here previously.

As for the hypocrisy, it takes one to know one.

[Liam-]

Political correctness is not evil, being nice and not purposely offending people isn't a bad thing, free speech is a wonderful thing, it really is, but when it's being used as an excuse to say horrible, offensive things, then that's where the line should be crossed, people use free speech as an excuse to say whatever mean thing they want to and think they should be able to get away with it, that's not the way the world should work.

[Tom4784]

I'm not talking specifically on this thread, but what I have seen on here previously.

As for the hypocrisy, it takes one to know one.

Please point out where I'm being hypocritical. Go on.

[Brillopad]

Please point out where I'm being hypocritical. Go on.

If you think I haven't got better things to do than trawel through your repetitive posts you are mistaken.

What I do know is that you constantly Harp on about people insulting the very people who keep insulting anyone who supports Trump or opposes imigration. Overall, from what I have seen, the PC leaners usually start it. Just one example of your hypocrisy in my opinion.

[Tom4784]

If you think I haven't got better things to do than trawel through your repetitive posts you are mistaken.

What I do know is that you constantly Harp on about people insulting the very people who keep insulting anyone who supports Trump or opposes imigration. Overall, from what I have seen, the PC leaners usually start it. Just one example of your hypocrisy in my opinion.

So you have nothing.

I only bring up the 'Loony Left' stuff because you're okay with that but not with people saying 'Bigot' or 'Racist'. I don't mind the phrase 'Loony Left' it makes the people who use that phrase without irony look silly. Again, I need to remind you that you started this little discussion so accusing me of harping on about anything when you pursued this line of dialogue is a pretty flawed allegation.

I don't think I've mentioned anything about immigration for a while so I'll assume you're confusing me with someone else on that point but I don't think wanting tighter immigration laws is racist in itself. It's all about the intent.

My mantra in SD is simple, Freedom of Speech is a two way street as are opinions. You can't pick and choose like you have in this discussion.

So, got any other accusations of hypocrisy for me to blow up or are you done?

[Brillopad]

So you have nothing.

I only bring up the 'Loony Left' stuff because you're okay with that but not with people saying 'Bigot' or 'Racist'. I don't mind the phrase 'Loony Left' it makes the people who use that phrase without irony look silly. Again, I need to remind you that you started this little discussion so accusing me of harping on about anything when you pursued this line of dialogue is a pretty flawed allegation.

I don't think I've mentioned anything about immigration for a while so I'll assume you're confusing me with someone else on that point but I don't think wanting tighter immigration laws is racist in itself. It's all about the intent.

My mantra in SD is simple, Freedom of Speech is a two way street as are opinions. You can't pick and choose like you have in this discussion.

So, got any other accusations of hypocrisy for me to blow up or are you done?

As far as I am concerned I have made my points and have no desire to keep reiterating them at your command.

I believe many of your posts to be hypocritical and believe I have already pointed this out in previous posts. Feel free to trawel away and have fun with your perceived notions of proving your point.

[Tom4784]

As far as I am concerned I have made my points and have no desire to keep reiterating them at your command.

I believe many of your posts to be hypocritical and believe I have already pointed this out in previous posts. Feel free to trawel away and have fun with your perceived notions of proving your point.

You can't accuse someone of something and then bail when it comes to providing proof. It's silly.

You've not made any points, you've just made a bunch of claims and refuse to back them up with either logic or evidence.

[Brillopad]

You can't accuse someone of something and then bail when it comes to providing proof. It's silly.

You've not made any points, you've just made a bunch of claims and refuse to back them up with either logic or evidence.

Ffs the evidence is in the posts. We are all entitled to our opinions and your perceived notions of proof prove nothing to anyone other than yourself.

[Tom4784]

Ffs the evidence is in the posts. We are all entitled to our opinions and your perceived notions of proof prove nothing to anyone other than yourself.

What evidence? You said I was being hypocritical about the Loony thing and I explained why you were wrong. Now you're just calling me a hypocrite and refusing to provide any solid evidence, You've essentially taken the ball and gone home.

There's a difference between an accusation and an opinion. I thought you were hypocritical and I explained why, that's qualifying an accusation with logic. You can't enter a debate say 'you're a hypocrite xx' without backing up what you've said with either facts or logic. You don't even need proof, you just have to explain your thoughts and the fact you can't is telling.

[Brillopad]

What evidence? You said I was being hypocritical about the Loony thing and I explained why you were wrong. Now you're just calling me a hypocrite and refusing to provide any solid evidence, You've essentially taken the ball and gone home.

There's a difference between an accusation and an opinion. I thought you were hypocritical and I explained why, that's qualifying an accusation with logic. You can't enter a debate say 'you're a hypocrite xx' without backing up what you've said with either facts or logic. You don't even need proof, you just have to explain your thoughts and the fact you can't is telling.

You assume your 'explanation' is correct, when it is just another word for your opinion, not a statement of fact.

[Tom4784]

You assume your 'explanation' is correct, when it is just another word for your opinion, not a statement of fact.

Of course my explanation is correct, I know what I'm saying but please, you seem to think you're an authority and what should or shouldn't be considered offensive to everyone so please educate me on my thoughts and actions, you obviously believe you understand me better than I do. So please, enlighten me.

What I said before is correct and you haven't been able to refute it, I brought up the Loony thing as a counterpoint to you basically saying that people who call out bigoted or racist behavior as somehow being immature or less than the bigoted person in question. You took a stand against people speaking out against Racism or Bigotry but you were fine with immature comments that were said about the left although it flew in the face of what you were saying. You brought that up as me being hypocritical and then I explained that I don't have an issue with the term because it makes the arguments of people who use it seem ridiculous.

You've still yet to offer up reasoning for calling me a hypocrite after I explained that.

Remember, debates are more than just random statements, you have to qualify what you say through logic or proof. Pick your poison.

[Brillopad]

Of course my explanation is correct, I know what I'm saying but please, you seem to think you're an authority and what should or shouldn't be considered offensive to everyone so please educate me on my thoughts and actions, you obviously believe you understand me better than I do. So please, enlighten me.

What I said before is correct and you haven't been able to refute it, I brought up the Loony thing as a counterpoint to you basically saying that people who call out bigoted or racist behavior as somehow being immature or less than the bigoted person in question. You took a stand against people speaking out against Racism or Bigotry but you were fine with immature comments that were said about the left although it flew in the face of what you were saying. You brought that up as me being hypocritical and then I explained that I don't have an issue with the term because it makes the arguments of people who use it seem ridiculous.

You've still yet to offer up reasoning for calling me a hypocrite after I explained that.

Remember, debates are more than just random statements, you have to qualify what you say through logic or proof. Pick your poison.

I am well aware what a debate is thanks. I don't have to do anything on a bb website at the say so of a poster who didn't like me calling him a hypocrite. People can make of my posts what they will, but I'm not going to be preached to by someone who just can't let go. You seem to have a real need to demonstrate how clever you think you are to everyone. ffs lighten up.

[Johnnyuk123]

I am well aware what a debate is thanks. I don't have to do anything on a bb website at the say so of a poster who didn't like me calling him a hypocrite. People can make of my posts what they will, but I'm not going to be preached to by someone who just can't let go. You seem to have a real need to demonstrate how clever you think you are to everyone. ffs lighten up.

Brillopad you are most wise. I agree with you 100%
Being truthful and honest is a great quality and has to be commended. :wavey:

[user104658]

The irony of the fact that the only thing stopping half of the blatant smarmy-arse trolls on this site being banned permanently is a localised version of "being PC" :joker:.

[Niamh.]

Closing this - It's gone completely off topic