Islamic Extremism Manifesting Itself In Once Moderate Egyptian Schools

[kirklancaster]

Christian children KICKED OUT of school for refusing to wear hijab or recite Koran

CHRISTIAN children are being deprived of their education and being ousted from schools for refusing to wear a hijab, it has been revealed.

Schools across Egypt are forcing girls of every religion to wear the Muslim headscarf and children of both sexes are being punished if they cannot quote the Koran off by heart.

Even Muslim girls who refuse to wear a hijab are being forced out of school in a country where Coptic Christians have previously been able to live free of persecution.

Rahman Salem, 12, was ordered to leave her lesson and banned from taking part in any activities at her school in the Delta, northern Egypt.

Other pupils gave her nasty looks and started leaving the Muslim girl out over the incident.

She said: "I was made to stand all alone in the school courtyard.

“The headmistress later came to me and said: ‘Here in school, you put on the headscarf. Outside, you may do as you wish.’

"No girl can show up with her hair showing. They all have to wear the hijab.

"Christian girls have to wear the hijab. As soon as the end-of-day bell rings, they start taking it off.”

I was told ‘Stop being an idiot! Don’t you want your daughter to be decent?’
Says Mother

"I was shocked when other mothers stopped me at the gate. ‘What’s that? How can your daughter show up like this?’

“I re-inspected my daughter’s uniform, and incredulously asked what was wrong. ‘Her head and neck have to be strictly covered!’"

Last month another school in the same province of Sharqia put in force rules to make all female students wear a hijab, with the al-Nassiriya School’s headteacher posting a large sign saying Islam dress is now part of the girls’ uniform.

And Christian seven-year-old Viola Samir told how her Islamic religious studies teacher held eight Christian pupils in her class of 35 children back.

The teacher then beat anyone who had not learnt the Koran off by heart.

Usually, Christian students in Egypt move to a different classroom during religious studies classes where they learn about Christianity while Muslims stay and learn about Islam.

Viola’s father told Christian persecution website, World Watch Monitor: "When my daughter told the teacher that the extra texts were not part of the Arabic curriculum [which all students have to learn], she was severely punished by her teacher.

"The Christian religious studies teacher complained to the headmaster, but he took no disciplinary action against the Muslim teacher.

“In the end, the teacher allowed the Christian children to leave the class to join their Christian studies class.”

Another parent in a different school in the same town of Samalout, 155 miles from Cairo, said his 11-year-old son son was caned for not reciting verses from the Koran.

He said: “"Once, the teacher, Mohamed, caned Abanob on the back of his hands, afterwards forcing him to stand with his face to the board and both arms up in the air for the entire length of the lesson.

“My son had failed to repeat the Koranic text by heart when prompted to.”

All the parents said their children now hate going to school and are often absent due to bullying from both teachers and children.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/728836/Christian-children-kicked-out-school-hijab-Koran?utm_source=traffic.outbrain&utm_medium=traffic.outbrain&utm_term=traffic.outbrain&utm_content=traffic.outbrain&utm_campaign=traffic.outbrain

[arista]

Yes its going backwards

Should be a main news story.

[jaxie]

It's such a shame as Egypt was quite a moderate country on religion. It's like going back to the dark ages. Though it sounds like parents need to stand up for their children's rights more. Any teacher who beat or caned my child and made them stand up with their arms up for hours would be having a visit from me and he police.

An outrageous way to treat children.

Waiting to be told that it's acceptable because it's Islam and that we should give them some money towards new canes because the naughty Christians are breaking theirs. :shrug:

[Withano]

This is obviously terrible..

Naming no names, but theres a few on here who thought the burqa should be banned in the UK, it'll be interesting to see if they have a problem with Christians being told how to dress..

[jaxie]

This is obviously terrible..

Naming no names, but theres a few on here who thought the burqa should be banned in the UK, it'll be interesting to see if they have a problem with Christians being told how to dress..

Actually it should probably be banned everywhere because it is religious oppression of women. As should any religious doctrine telling people to stone other human beings for perceived wrongs/immodesty, telling people what to wear and that they aren't allowed to use contraceptives etc.

Unfortunately there are people who think that is all OK in the name of religion because some man told everyone god said it. :shrug:

[Withano]

Actually it should probably be banned everywhere because it is religious oppression of women. As should any religious doctrine telling people to stone other human beings for perceived wrongs/immodesty, telling people what to wear and that they aren't allowed to use contraceptives etc.

Unfortunately there are people who think that is all OK in the name of religion because some man told everyone god said it. :shrug:

But youre not really saying burquas are forced on women by men therefore they should be banned and they should take them off immediately. That would be hypocritical. Youre not really saying that Brits can force dresscodes off people but Egyptians may not do the opposite. That would also be hypocritical.

So what are you really saying, that post didnt come off well.

I think your point is that 'anti-religion' is superior to 'any religion' therefore act like me. But thats a bit too dark of a discussion for me to have. Live and let live etc. Lets not force the burquas off people, lets not force burquas on people, lets sympathise and join in outrage when people try to enforce one rule or the other.

[jaxie]

But youre not really saying burquas are forced on women by men therefore they should be banned and they should take them off immediately. That would be hypocritical. Youre not really saying that Brits can force dresscodes off people but Egyptians may not do the opposite. That would also be hypocritical.

So what are you really saying, that post didnt come off well.

What I'm saying is forcing anyone to wear a religious uniform is wrong. Brainwashing people into wearing a religious uniform is also wrong. Personally I think the world would be a happier place without silly made up religious rules.

Unfortunately stopping the use of religious uniform would probably require banning it which in a sense would also be forcing it to end. In an ideal world people get to choose, in reality very few do. Bear in mind my use of the word probably. Probably for the greater good religious uniform ought to banned. In reality that is difficult to do without taking away the right to choose. What I think might be the better route isn't necessary the route that can be taken. However I do think there might be a case with regard hidden faces and head to floor covering with regard hidden terrorism/crime.

[Withano]

What I'm saying is forcing anyone to wear a religious uniform is wrong. Brainwashing people into wearing a religious uniform is also wrong. Personally I think the world would be a happier place without silly made up religious rules.

Unfortunately stopping the use of religious uniform would probably require banning it which in a sense would also be forcing it to end. In an ideal world people get to choose, in reality very few do. Bear in mind my use of the word probably. Probably for the greater good religious uniform ought to banned. In reality that is difficult to do without taking away the right to choose. What I think might be the better route isn't necessary the route that can be taken. However I do think there might be a case with regard hidden faces and head to floor covering with regard hidden terrorism/crime.

Alright, I just think its a bit hypocritical.

[jaxie]

Alright, I just think its a bit hypocritical.

What exactly do you find hypocritical about it?

[Withano]

What exactly do you find hypocritical about it?

Literally all of it.

[jaxie]

Literally all of it.

That doesn't explain why it is hypocritical in your view. Do you understand what hypocritical means?

I'm definitely not claiming to have beliefs I don't possess. :shrug:

[Withano]

That doesn't explain why it is hypocritical in your view. Do you understand what hypocritical means?

Forcing clothig on people is wrong? That is your point
Forcing a worldwide ban on specific clothing is fine? Thats hypocritical

We'll agree to disagree here. I was worried about comments like yours when I read the OP. Live and let live. The story in the OP is morally wrong, so is the polar opposite.

[jaxie]

Forcing clothig on people is wrong? That is your point
Forcing a worldwide ban on specific clothing is fine? Thats hypocritical

We'll agree to disagree here. I was worried about comments like yours when I read the OP. Live and let live. The story in the OP is morally wrong, so is the polar opposite.

That's not exactly what I said though is it. I worry about people who cant see the bigger picture. :shrug: If you want to talk morally wrong look at what people do in the name of religion or failing that, have a good hard look at the EU.

[Firewire]

Do you think nuns opting to wear religious dress as well as covering their heads is oppression?

[jaxie]

Do you think nuns opting to wear religious dress as well as covering their heads is oppression?

I do actually it's just another form of religious indoctrination.

[Firewire]

I do actually it's just another form of religious indoctrination.

Even though it's by choice?

What about Sikh men who wear turbans? Are they oppressed?

[Withano]

Actually it should probably be banned everywhere

What I'm saying is forcing anyone to wear a religious uniform is wrong.

Unfortunately stopping the use of religious uniform would probably require banning it which in a sense would also be forcing it to end.

Forcing clothig on people is wrong? That is your point
Forcing a worldwide ban on specific clothing is fine? Thats hypocritical

That's not exactly what I said though is it.

Ok Jaxie

[jaxie]

Even though it's by choice?

What about Sikh men who wear turbans? Are they oppressed?

Is it a choice? Or has it been taught?

It doesn't matter what religion it is, religiois uniform is generally unhealthy interference by religion into people's daily lives. Although I don't know enough about Sikh's to say if they have been told they are immodest and will drive the opposite sex to rape and madness if they don't wear it. :shrug:

[jaxie]

Ok Jaxie

Yes I'm consistent, where is the hypocrisy?

[Withano]

Yes I'm consistent, where is the hypocrisy?

What I'm saying is forcing anyone to wear a religious uniform is wrong.

Actually it should probably be banned everywhere

Forcing clothig on people is wrong? That is your point
Forcing a worldwide ban on specific clothing is fine? Thats hypocritical



Ok Jaxie

[jaxie]

Ok Jaxie

Still not seeing the hypocrisy. I already stated, which you are conveniently ignoring that in reality it would be difficult to do because then the state is telling people what to wear. You are confusing my saying it would be better for people not to be hampered by silly religious uniforms with my in some way enforcing that. :shrug:

[Tom4784]

Obviously wrong and I hope the teachers face harsh punishments for it but I do agree with Withano about hypocrisy.

I never really understood how anyone would simply take a caning though, if a teacher ever tried to hit me, I'd stamp on their ****ing throat.

[Brillopad]

Even though it's by choice?

What about Sikh men who wear turbans? Are they oppressed?

That seems quite naive as it is clear that when people are subject to both religous and cultural indoctrination from birth, with significant opposition to any deviation from such beliefs, it is extremely unlikely that 'choice' was ever a option in reality.

[kirklancaster]

Obviously wrong and I hope the teachers face harsh punishments for it but I do agree with Withano about hypocrisy.

I never really understood how anyone would simply take a caning though, if a teacher ever tried to hit me, I'd stamp on their ****ing throat.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

[Brillopad]

Do you think nuns opting to wear religious dress as well as covering their heads is oppression?

That is a ridiculous analogy. Clearly becoming a nunn is a choice, but knowing how oppressive certain religions can be towards women casts considerable doubt as to how much 'choice' women really have to cover themselves.

This really annoys me because there would probably be uproar on here if gay or black men were forced/conditioned (amounts to the same) to wear such restrictive clothing, but when many men in particular, appear to have such an apathetic reaction to women having to do so it reeks of sexist undertones to me.

[Kizzy]

If anyone tried to pressurise me into wearing a burka or any such restrictive clothing I would do much the same as an adult.

But no doubt if I had been subjected to family/social pressure and 'spoken/unspoken' threat from birth I guess I would have pretty much been conditioned into believing I actually had free choice at that stage.

Social condioning is very strong.

Those that cannot acknowledge that are socially deaf, dumb and blind.



Hackney is home to a large ultra-Orthodox Jewish Charedi community, which is regarded as insular and practices a strict 19th-century interpretation of the faith.

Engagement with the secular world is for many deeply taboo.

The Independent has spent months investigating illegal schools in the borough.

Those forced to attend illegal schools have reported that they are not taught English or anything secular so they can instead focus on studying the Torah.

One former pupil at an illegal schoool in Hackney told The Independent he was regularly subject to “physical and psychological abuse”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/hackney-council-admit-there-are-more-illegal-than-legal-jewish-schools-in-borough-a7422526.html

[Tom4784]

That is a ridiculous analogy. Clearly becoming a nunn is a choice, but knowing how oppressive certain religions can be towards women casts considerable doubt as to how much 'choice' women really have to cover themselves.

This really annoys me because there would probably be uproar on here if gay or black men were forced/conditioned (amounts to the same) to wear such restrictive clothing, but when many men in particular, appear to have such an apathetic reaction to women having to do so it reeks of sexist undertones to me.

And what of women who choose to wear the Hijab or Burka? Are they, ironically considering your stance, not allowed to make that choice for themselves?

The only ridiculous analogy in this thread thus far has been yours about the gays. It doesn't really make a lick of sense.

[Northern Monkey]

It's a shame.Egypt was one of the freer Muslim countries.When i was there many Muslim women were just dressed in normal jeans and t-shirts etc.I saw more women in Bradford wearing the full mailbox suit than in Cairo.That was just before all the major trouble started over there.It was an amazing place to visit.
Let's hope it does'nt start going in the direction of Saudi Arabia.How do you change a country's ideology?Brainwash the kids.Seems like they are trying to radicalise the future generations.

[Brillopad]

And what of women who choose to wear the Hijab or Burka? Are they, ironically considering your stance, not allowed to make that choice for themselves?

The only ridiculous analogy in this thread thus far has been yours about the gays. It doesn't really make a lick of sense.

Of course it does! Again you show a lack of concern for the detrimental effects of such effects of religous/cultural oppression of women and constantly try to suggest no such conditioning could possibly be occurring in Britain.

Suggesting or agreeing that there is any correlation between the wearing of a nunns' habit and a woman in a burka is absurd. One is clearly based on choice. The other is not so clear.

[jaxie]

That is a ridiculous analogy. Clearly becoming a nunn is a choice, but knowing how oppressive certain religions can be towards women casts considerable doubt as to how much 'choice' women really have to cover themselves.

This really annoys me because there would probably be uproar on here if gay or black men were forced/conditioned (amounts to the same) to wear such restrictive clothing, but when many men in particular, appear to have such an apathetic reaction to women having to do so it reeks of sexist undertones to me.

You are right but, I wouldn't deny there is also conditioning in cathlocism with girls brought up to believe the ultimate sacrifice of purity is to become a nun. In some families this is something to aspire to.

[Brillopad]

You are right but, I wouldn't deny there is also conditioning in cathlocism with girls brought up to believe the ultimate sacrifice of purity is to become a nun. In some families this is something to aspire to.

Fair point. I do agree with you that it is not about the choice of what to wear per se but the reasons behind the wearing of certain types of garments for women in relation to so-called 'choice'.

[Tom4784]

Of course it does! Again you show a lack of concern for the detrimental effects of such effects of religous/cultural oppression of women and constantly try to suggest no such conditioning could possibly be occurring in Britain.

Suggesting or agreeing that there is any correlation between the wearing of a nunns' habit and a woman in a burka is absurd. One is clearly based on choice. The other is not so clear.

I believe in freedom of choice, that means accepting choices that I might not agree with. I'm not going to make out that the Hijab/burka is evil and women shouldn't wear it even if they want to while accepting religious practices that are similar but are okay because I don't mind the religion in question. That's hypocritical.

I'm against oppression, I think this story is disgusting but I'm not ignorant enough to pretend that this is reflective of millions of people and their beliefs. There are plenty of muslims who choose not to wear a hijab and they have as much right to do so as muslims that choose to don the hijab.

It's ignorant and downright patronising to act like most muslim women don't have a choice in the matter.

[Withano]

The thread is about religious persecution.

Then as a person who believes the burqa should be banned worldwide, why do you think your arguments holds any weight?

[Brillopad]

I believe in freedom of choice, that means accepting choices that I might not agree with. I'm not going to make out that the Hijab/burka is evil and women shouldn't wear it even if they want to while accepting religious practices that are similar but are okay because I don't mind the religion in question. That's hypocritical.

I'm against oppression, I think this story is disgusting but I'm not ignorant enough to pretend that this is reflective of millions of people and their beliefs. There are plenty of muslims who choose not to wear a hijab and they have as much right to do so as muslims that choose to don the hijab.

It's ignorant and downright patronising to act like most muslim women don't have a choice in the matter.

Some women may have choice, but my concerns are for those that don't, the apparent apathy of some men on the oppression of women and the allowing of such oppressive practices in the Western world and bowing down to political correctness. It's actually political bullying.

[Kizzy]

It's a shame.Egypt was one of the freer Muslim countries.When i was there many Muslim women were just dressed in normal jeans and t-shirts etc.I saw more women in Bradford wearing the full mailbox suit than in Cairo.That was just before all the major trouble started over there.It was an amazing place to visit.
Let's hope it does'nt start going in the direction of Saudi Arabia.How do you change a country's ideology?Brainwash the kids.Seems like they are trying to radicalise the future generations.

Is this in reference to the meme from the BNP that found it's way onto facebook to be shared by 1000s?

Yes we really must guard against brainwashing kids....

[jaxie]

Then as a person who believes the burqa should be banned worldwide, why do you think your arguments holds any weight?

Well actually you are misquoting me, I think all religious uniforms should be done away with for a happier world. I also think we'd be better off without religion.

I'm thinking that's probably not going to happen tomorrow but a girl can dream. :shrug:

Why does my argument need to hold weight? Does it's ass look fat in this conversation?

[kirklancaster]

The point of the thread is that it is awful that Christian children in Egypt are being told how to dress..

An additional point that I made is that it will be ironic if those who believe burquas should be banned would become outraged at this, as they would be blissfully unaware that they would be contradicting themselves.

Telling Christians which items of clothing to wear is disgusting, similarly it os disgusting to tell anybody of any religion which articles of clothing to not wear. Anybody who hates one but preaches the other is contradicting themselves and are hypocritical.

You are not missing THE point Withano - you are missing lots of points. But before I expound, here is an image showing just what a Burqa is along with other traditional forms of coverings for Muslim women:

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/scarf-651554.jpg

As can CLEARLY be seen, the BURQA is SINISTER and COVERS the ENTIRE wearer - to the point where identification of GENDER is impossible let alone identity of the wearer.

Nearly as bad, from a CONCEALMENT perspective, is the NIQAB, with the CHADOR - when it is worn high up the face so that only the eyes are revealed - as it is more often than not, being just as bad from the same perspective .

The HIJAB and KHIMAR, are on a par with the HABITS, COIFS, WIMPLES and VEILS worn by CHRISTIAN NUNS, and as such pose NO identification problems.

And IDENTIFICATION is THE issue here Withano.

NO ONE ever proposed banning ANY form of Muslim women's dress UNTIL Muslim Terrorists declared HOLY WAR upon the entire world and began to wreak the most evil campaign of death and destruction in it.

THEN and only THEN, did it not only become VITAL for the Security Forces of EVERY country in the world, to be able to readily IDENTIFY any MUSLIM, but it also became NECESSARY to put the worried minds of the citizens of those countries at rest.

UNIDENTIFIED people inside Burqas and Niqabs and Chadors, moving FREELY through the crowded Malls and Streets of our inner cities in ever INCREASING numbers, DO NOT placate anxious citizens nor alleviate their fears - perfectly understandable fears given the carnage inflicted upon ORDINARY, UNARMED, INNOCENT CIVILIANS by these terrorist cowards in many Cities throughout the world.

So there is no correlation between any call by the Security Forces or citizens of any free Western Democracy for the very sinister - and franky ludicrous - Burqa to be banned and this IMPOSING of Muslim dress and Muslim ideology on young schoolchildren who are not of that culture and not of that faith, at the cost of their own culture and faith, and with barbaric punishments for non-compliance.

There is also no correlation between the Burqa, Niqab, and Chador and the attire of Christian Nuns.

A Nun's attire does not fully conceal her gender nor her identity, and the Roman Catholic Church has not declared war on ALL Mankind, and is not currently committing atrocities within most countries of the world, and even in the comparatively rare incidents of evil Christian Extremist factions having committed atrocities in the name of God - there is NO evidence that Nuns have assisted them by concealing weapons and bombs beneath their habits.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of some Burqa and Niqab wearing Muslim women.

[kirklancaster]

Is this in reference to the meme from the BNP that found it's way onto facebook to be shared by 1000s?

Yes we really must guard against brainwashing kids....

So are you stating that one wrong justifies another?

[Northern Monkey]

Is this in reference to the meme from the BNP that found it's way onto facebook to be shared by 1000s?

Yes we really must guard against brainwashing kids....

Nope...Well maybe but I wouldn't know.I don't get my analogies from the BNP.These women just remind me of walking post boxes when they're in the full kit.

[Withano]

You are not missing THE point Withano - you are missing lots of points. But before I expound, here is an image showing just what a Burqa is along with other traditional forms of coverings for Muslim women:

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/scarf-651554.jpg

As can CLEARLY be seen, the BURQA is SINISTER and COVERS the ENTIRE wearer - to the point where identification of GENDER is impossible let alone identity of the wearer.

Nearly as bad, from a CONCEALMENT perspective, is the NIQAB, with the CHADOR - when it is worn high up the face so that only the eyes are revealed - as it is more often than not, being just as bad from the same perspective .

The HIJAB and KHIMAR, are on a par with the HABITS, COIFS, WIMPLES and VEILS worn by CHRISTIAN NUNS, and as such pose NO identification problems.

And IDENTIFICATION is THE issue here Withano.

NO ONE ever proposed banning ANY form of Muslim women's dress UNTIL Muslim Terrorists declared HOLY WAR upon the entire world and began to wreak the most evil campaign of death and destruction in it.

THEN and only THEN, did it not only become VITAL for the Security Forces of EVERY country in the world, to be able to readily IDENTIFY any MUSLIM, but it also became NECESSARY to put the worried minds of the citizens of those countries at rest.

UNIDENTIFIED people inside Burqas and Niqabs and Chadors, moving FREELY through the crowded Malls and Streets of our inner cities in ever INCREASING numbers, DO NOT placate anxious citizens nor alleviate their fears - perfectly understandable fears given the carnage inflicted upon ORDINARY, UNARMED, INNOCENT CIVILIANS by these terrorist cowards in many Cities throughout the world.

So there is no correlation between any call by the Security Forces or citizens of any free Western Democracy for the very sinister - and franky ludicrous - Burqa to be banned and this IMPOSING of Muslim dress and Muslim ideology on young schoolchildren who are not of that culture and not of that faith, at the cost of their own culture and faith, and with barbaric punishments for non-compliance.

There is also no correlation between the Burqa, Niqab, and Chador and the attire of Christian Nuns.

A Nun's attire does not fully conceal her gender nor her identity, and the Roman Catholic Church has not declared war on ALL Mankind, and is not currently committing atrocities within most countries of the world, and even in the comparatively rare incidents of evil Christian Extremist factions having committed atrocities in the name of God - there is NO evidence that Nuns have assisted them by concealing weapons and bombs beneath their habits.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of some Burqa and Niqab wearing Muslim women.

None of this is relevant to your OP kirk. Ive not brought up nuns, and I agree there is little or no connection to make there.

Your OP, (you may have forgotten because the thread has taken a new life of its own) was about Christian children being forced to wear specific articles of clothing. I believe everyone thus far has agreed this is wrong. I also believe that the post that I quoted here is the first to create a link between the childrens clothing and terrorism in the thread.

[Kizzy]

Nope...Well maybe but I wouldn't know.I don't get my analogies from the BNP.These women just remind me of walking post boxes when they're in the full kit.

Obviously you do, it just didn't register ( that's what brainwashing is btw)

[Kizzy]

So are you stating that one wrong justifies another?

I'm highlighting how easy it is to influence people.

[Northern Monkey]

Obviously you do, it just didn't register ( that's what brainwashing is btw)

Well....I don't go on Facebook,I don't look at BNP propaganda and i don't get exposed to anything related to the BNP.So it's obviously not just me who sees the resemblance.

[Kizzy]

Well....I don't go on Facebook,I don't look at BNP propaganda and i don't get exposed to anything related to the BNP.So it's obviously not just me who sees the resemblance.

It was posted on here too.

[jennyjuniper]

Actually it should probably be banned everywhere because it is religious oppression of women. As should any religious doctrine telling people to stone other human beings for perceived wrongs/immodesty, telling people what to wear and that they aren't allowed to use contraceptives etc.

Unfortunately there are people who think that is all OK in the name of religion because some man told everyone god said it. :shrug:

Well said Jaxie.:cheer2:

[Northern Monkey]

It was posted on here too.

Great:thumbs:
You know.Whatever you might think,I do actually have my own mind.Sometimes on a good day it can actually be quite witty.The comparison i made was my own and one that i've thought for a long time.No BNP influence here.

[jennyjuniper]

Do you think nuns opting to wear religious dress as well as covering their heads is oppression?

No because it's their choice. If they tried to force others to wear habits it would be wrong. As far as the burqa debate goes, if women want to wear it fine, but if they are forced to wear it because islamic men find the sight of womens hair disturbing, then that's wrong. Islamic men should learn to control their own impulses instead of blaming women for showing their hair or skin.

[jennyjuniper]

You are not missing THE point Withano - you are missing lots of points. But before I expound, here is an image showing just what a Burqa is along with other traditional forms of coverings for Muslim women:

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/scarf-651554.jpg

As can CLEARLY be seen, the BURQA is SINISTER and COVERS the ENTIRE wearer - to the point where identification of GENDER is impossible let alone identity of the wearer.

Nearly as bad, from a CONCEALMENT perspective, is the NIQAB, with the CHADOR - when it is worn high up the face so that only the eyes are revealed - as it is more often than not, being just as bad from the same perspective .

The HIJAB and KHIMAR, are on a par with the HABITS, COIFS, WIMPLES and VEILS worn by CHRISTIAN NUNS, and as such pose NO identification problems.

And IDENTIFICATION is THE issue here Withano.

NO ONE ever proposed banning ANY form of Muslim women's dress UNTIL Muslim Terrorists declared HOLY WAR upon the entire world and began to wreak the most evil campaign of death and destruction in it.

THEN and only THEN, did it not only become VITAL for the Security Forces of EVERY country in the world, to be able to readily IDENTIFY any MUSLIM, but it also became NECESSARY to put the worried minds of the citizens of those countries at rest.

UNIDENTIFIED people inside Burqas and Niqabs and Chadors, moving FREELY through the crowded Malls and Streets of our inner cities in ever INCREASING numbers, DO NOT placate anxious citizens nor alleviate their fears - perfectly understandable fears given the carnage inflicted upon ORDINARY, UNARMED, INNOCENT CIVILIANS by these terrorist cowards in many Cities throughout the world.

So there is no correlation between any call by the Security Forces or citizens of any free Western Democracy for the very sinister - and franky ludicrous - Burqa to be banned and this IMPOSING of Muslim dress and Muslim ideology on young schoolchildren who are not of that culture and not of that faith, at the cost of their own culture and faith, and with barbaric punishments for non-compliance.

There is also no correlation between the Burqa, Niqab, and Chador and the attire of Christian Nuns.

A Nun's attire does not fully conceal her gender nor her identity, and the Roman Catholic Church has not declared war on ALL Mankind, and is not currently committing atrocities within most countries of the world, and even in the comparatively rare incidents of evil Christian Extremist factions having committed atrocities in the name of God - there is NO evidence that Nuns have assisted them by concealing weapons and bombs beneath their habits.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of some Burqa and Niqab wearing Muslim women.

This is why I love Kirk Lancaster.:cheer::flowers:

[Northern Monkey]

You are not missing THE point Withano - you are missing lots of points. But before I expound, here is an image showing just what a Burqa is along with other traditional forms of coverings for Muslim women:

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/scarf-651554.jpg

As can CLEARLY be seen, the BURQA is SINISTER and COVERS the ENTIRE wearer - to the point where identification of GENDER is impossible let alone identity of the wearer.

Nearly as bad, from a CONCEALMENT perspective, is the NIQAB, with the CHADOR - when it is worn high up the face so that only the eyes are revealed - as it is more often than not, being just as bad from the same perspective .

The HIJAB and KHIMAR, are on a par with the HABITS, COIFS, WIMPLES and VEILS worn by CHRISTIAN NUNS, and as such pose NO identification problems.

And IDENTIFICATION is THE issue here Withano.

NO ONE ever proposed banning ANY form of Muslim women's dress UNTIL Muslim Terrorists declared HOLY WAR upon the entire world and began to wreak the most evil campaign of death and destruction in it.

THEN and only THEN, did it not only become VITAL for the Security Forces of EVERY country in the world, to be able to readily IDENTIFY any MUSLIM, but it also became NECESSARY to put the worried minds of the citizens of those countries at rest.

UNIDENTIFIED people inside Burqas and Niqabs and Chadors, moving FREELY through the crowded Malls and Streets of our inner cities in ever INCREASING numbers, DO NOT placate anxious citizens nor alleviate their fears - perfectly understandable fears given the carnage inflicted upon ORDINARY, UNARMED, INNOCENT CIVILIANS by these terrorist cowards in many Cities throughout the world.

So there is no correlation between any call by the Security Forces or citizens of any free Western Democracy for the very sinister - and franky ludicrous - Burqa to be banned and this IMPOSING of Muslim dress and Muslim ideology on young schoolchildren who are not of that culture and not of that faith, at the cost of their own culture and faith, and with barbaric punishments for non-compliance.

There is also no correlation between the Burqa, Niqab, and Chador and the attire of Christian Nuns.

A Nun's attire does not fully conceal her gender nor her identity, and the Roman Catholic Church has not declared war on ALL Mankind, and is not currently committing atrocities within most countries of the world, and even in the comparatively rare incidents of evil Christian Extremist factions having committed atrocities in the name of God - there is NO evidence that Nuns have assisted them by concealing weapons and bombs beneath their habits.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of some Burqa and Niqab wearing Muslim women.Great post:thumbs:
And very relevant since whenever a thread comes along showing just how backwards and nasty Islam can be there are inevitably always either apologists,excusers or comparisons made to try and deflect attention off the topic and attempts to denigrate Western countries and anyone who disagrees with this barbaric ideology.It beggers belief.

[Tom4784]

There's no realistic way for the UK to become an extremist country. It is just pure hysteria that is based on neither reality nor fact.

Extremism must be stamped out but to act like an entire religion is the enemy is pure ignorance and will only accentuate the problem of extremists, not solve it.

[jaxie]

There's no realistic way for the UK to become an extremist country. It is just pure hysteria that is based on neither reality nor fact.

Extremism must be stamped out but to act like an entire religion is the enemy is pure ignorance and will only accentuate the problem of extremists, not solve it.

There is much danger in complacency.

[Tom4784]

There is much danger in complacency.

Blind hysteria is much more dangerous than a near impossibility.

[kirklancaster]

There's no realistic way for the UK to become an extremist country. It is just pure hysteria that is based on neither reality nor fact.

Extremism must be stamped out but to act like an entire religion is the enemy is pure ignorance and will only accentuate the problem of extremists, not solve it.

For my part Dezzy, I have never stated that ALL Muslims are the 'enemy' - only the very real and growing number of EXTREMIST Muslims.

I even SPECIFICALLY included the phrase; "ISLAMIC EXTREMISM' in the OP Title to ensure differentiation between the two.

[Brillopad]

Blind hysteria is much more dangerous than a near impossibility.

I don't think a near impossility is very realistic. If enough Muslims come here and populate at their usual rates, given the low birth rate in the indigenous population, simple maths can do the rest.

[empire]

germany is ruled by a far-left authoritarian government, and I could not believe in what some germans told me about how their country is being treated by merkel and her sidekicks, and I thought this country was bad with the PC gestapo style rule, in germany its worse, parents who refuse to let there child be taught this religion are brought to court and could be jailed or have there child taken away from them by the social services, merkel brought in surveillance laws not to keep an eye on extremist or terrorism, but to keep an eye on germans who dare criticise her policies on the refugees, or islam in germany, and her trying to get turkey into the EU, germans who criticise online about these things will have police burst down there doors and they will be jailed for hate crimes, the sooner we get out of the EU the better.

[jaxie]

Blind hysteria is much more dangerous than a near impossibility.

No hysteria here, also not a believer in fairies.

[Brillopad]

germany is ruled by a far-left authoritarian government, and I could not believe in what some germans told me about how their country is being treated by merkel and her sidekicks, and I thought this country was bad with the PC gestapo style rule, in germany its worse, parents who refuse to let there child be taught this religion are brought to court and could be jailed or have there child taken away from them by the social services, merkel brought in surveillance laws not to keep an eye on extremist or terrorism, but to keep an eye on germans who dare criticise her policies on the refugees, or islam in germany, and her trying to get turkey into the EU, germans who criticise online about these things will have police burst down there doors and they will be jailed for hate crimes, the sooner we get out of the EU the better.

Couldn't agree more.

[jaxie]

germany is ruled by a far-left authoritarian government, and I could not believe in what some germans told me about how their country is being treated by merkel and her sidekicks, and I thought this country was bad with the PC gestapo style rule, in germany its worse, parents who refuse to let there child be taught this religion are brought to court and could be jailed or have there child taken away from them by the social services, merkel brought in surveillance laws not to keep an eye on extremist or terrorism, but to keep an eye on germans who dare criticise her policies on the refugees, or islam in germany, and her trying to get turkey into the EU, germans who criticise online about these things will have police burst down there doors and they will be jailed for hate crimes, the sooner we get out of the EU the better.

My real fear is all the desperate clutching by those who can't let go of it because they think the EU is some sort of Shangri La. With court cases and Scotland rattling her saber it could take decades to shake loose.

[Tom4784]

I don't think a near impossility is very realistic. If enough Muslims come here and populate at their usual rates, given the low birth rate in the indigenous population, simple maths can do the rest.

It's basically an impossibility for a takeover to occur like that. Like I said either in this topic or the other one. For there to be enough extremists to make a difference through sheer numbers, everyone (including most muslims) aside from those with extreme views would need to not breed for a crap ton of years to balance things out and that's not going to happen.

The fact you think the UK has a low indigenous birth rate soeaks for itself.

Nothing but islamaphobia and hysteria.

[empire]

turkey is dismantling its secularism and kemalism, and will end up being a mini saudi arabia, making child rape legal, merkel flooding europe with refugees was part of the plan to get turkey into the EU, but it goes far deeper than that, the EU elites and merkel want european countries who have parliaments and senates to abolish the current laws, and have them replaced with Islamic laws, which means for non muslims, your rights and democracy are out of the window, erdogan is turning turkey into a dictating islamic state, where as merkel and the elites are taking the legal route to have there dream of a europe with ottoman style rules and constitution,

[Livia]

It's basically an impossibility for a takeover to occur like that. Like I said either in this topic or the other one. For there to be enough extremists to make a difference through sheer numbers, everyone (including most muslims) aside from those with extreme views would need to not breed for a crap ton of years to balance things out and that's not going to happen.

The fact you think the UK has a low indigenous birth rate soeaks for itself.

Nothing but islamaphobia and hysteria.

The number of Muslims in the uk is 4 in a hundred, give or take.

The number of Muslim children under 5 years is 1 in 10.

That's not Islamaphobia, that's a fact.

[Tom4784]

The only stats I've been able to find are that 4.5% of the total population are Muslim,, the birthrate is increasing but that's the same across the board which still means that Muslims are not going to 'take over' (ugh).

It doesn't make what I said any less true, everyone BUT extremists would need to stop breeding for a long ass time to give extremists the numbers to make political moves. So that's 95.5% of the population AT LEAST if you count the fact that the majority of that 4.5% of muslims wouldn't support any attempts of extremist political manoeuvres.

Pure hysteria to think that there's a possibility of us becoming an extremist run country.

[Brillopad]

The only stats I've been able to find are that 4.5% of the total population are Muslim,, the birthrate is increasing but that's the same across the board which still means that Muslims are not going to 'take over' (ugh).

It doesn't make what I said any less true, everyone BUT extremists would need to stop breeding for a long ass time to give extremists the numbers to make political moves. So that's 95.5% of the population AT LEAST if you count the fact that the majority of that 4.5% of muslims wouldn't support any attempts of extremist political manoeuvres.

Pure hysteria to think that there's a possibility of us becoming an extremist run country.

How long to you is a 'long ass time'. Even if say a couple of hundred years or so, this will no longer be a free democratic country for future relatives of you, me and everyone else - especially women.

Maybe you're not unduly concerned about women or future generations, but many of us are especially those with children.

Unless the locals start having more children again on a large scale it will happen eventually, it's inevitable. Hysteria and crystal balls are not needed for anyone who has at least basic math skills.

[Tom4784]

How long to you is a 'long ass time'. Even if say a couple of hundred years or so, this will no longer be a free democratic country for future relatives of you, me and everyone else - especially women.

Maybe you're not unduly concerned about women or future generations, but many of us are especially those with children.

Unless the locals start having more children again on a large scale it will happen eventually, it's inevitable. Hysteria and crystal balls are not needed for anyone who has at least basic math skills.

All these doomsday predictions never take into account the vast majority of the population who aren't extremists. Do we just disappear into the aether? Population growth will always favour the majority. We aren't just going to stop breeding so the growth of extremists through birth is never going to be an issue and mass conversion to an extreme take on Islam is basically an impossibility.

The act of turning a democratic country with a long history of democracy like ours is basically an impossibility for reasons I've already stated multiple times (yet have been mostly ignored since you don't have a counter argument to it).

[Maru]

There's no realistic way for the UK to become an extremist country. It is just pure hysteria that is based on neither reality nor fact.

Extremism must be stamped out but to act like an entire religion is the enemy is pure ignorance and will only accentuate the problem of extremists, not solve it.

Extremism is a relative term to you and I. It is also relative to it's environment. Who is to say in 20-50 years that this definition of extremism won't change? Extremism might become 'progressive' and then progressive might become the new norm. I agree with you that it's often difficult to predict what the social conditions will be in future years. I never thought in a million years Donald Trump would be elected, and yet here we are... anyway, people are naturally fearful of change and resistant to forces they feel will adversely affect their status quo. So it's only natural some will form resistance against this... it's neither a good or bad trait to being human, but a tendency we have developed over the years as a way to survive in ever-changing circumstances...

For me the immigration-resistant arguments often come down to this in it's most logical form... by silencing this innate resistance, we are accepting these cultural changes without question and restriction (resisting our instincts), which further hinders our ability to carefully examine possible qualifiers aka dangers to our villages (society's) current members (such as religious sects aligned with terrorism)... you, myself and most of society doesn't know Muslim religion intimately enough to filter this danger out, much less to examine which ideals promote this extremism (though it seems most suspect the head garments, suppression) thus creates the hysteria when groups of society want to invite these people in unquestioned (not saying this is your stance). Logic and experience has something to do with this, but it's usually baked in with other values such as preserving one's own cultural identity and sticking to what works... because it's something we are familiar with, and it provides us with security in an ever-changing world, it's the course they will most likely opt for.

It doesn't necessarily have to align with the primary motives of bigotry. Ironically enough, people who are anti-Christian, or otherwise have been taught/conditioned to dislike it's most oppressive tenants, tend to look for the sister tenants (similar rules) in Muslim culture and use those as the basis for it's monopoly on extremism... so they use that as a guiding post. Still, some of those tenants are still widely accepted in Christianity today... but because it is already well-integrated with our society, we tend to whitelist (no pun intended :laugh:) it despite this obvious contradiction...

Anyway, we tend to band together in resistance where potential qualifiers for dangers are involved, no matter how ridiculous the arguments... because I think even evolution knows humans are often hysterically bad at examining these threads (:laugh:)... hence why these fears tend to rise more vehemently from the unknown factors than the known... we are pretty good at telling when the Christian church down the street might be out to get us, so our natural resistance stops there... damn Jehova's witnesses and their street polluting fliers.

Familiarity is a source of comfort. But again... extremism is relative... humans are pretty good at coming into **** and ****ing it all up. So who knows who will be running the world. We have only had great record keeping for a relatively short period of time, so it's not like we understand everything about the signs these rhetoric gain traction and we can't see all that happens in the world thanks to media that picks and choose what it reports... as a society anyway. If we did, we would have a cure to stop all fascism, hatred, sexism, etc...


Anyway, I am still scanning the thread...

[Maru]

You are not missing THE point Withano - you are missing lots of points. But before I expound, here is an image showing just what a Burqa is along with other traditional forms of coverings for Muslim women:

http://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/590x/scarf-651554.jpg

As can CLEARLY be seen, the BURQA is SINISTER and COVERS the ENTIRE wearer - to the point where identification of GENDER is impossible let alone identity of the wearer.

Nearly as bad, from a CONCEALMENT perspective, is the NIQAB, with the CHADOR - when it is worn high up the face so that only the eyes are revealed - as it is more often than not, being just as bad from the same perspective .

The HIJAB and KHIMAR, are on a par with the HABITS, COIFS, WIMPLES and VEILS worn by CHRISTIAN NUNS, and as such pose NO identification problems.

And IDENTIFICATION is THE issue here Withano.

NO ONE ever proposed banning ANY form of Muslim women's dress UNTIL Muslim Terrorists declared HOLY WAR upon the entire world and began to wreak the most evil campaign of death and destruction in it.

THEN and only THEN, did it not only become VITAL for the Security Forces of EVERY country in the world, to be able to readily IDENTIFY any MUSLIM, but it also became NECESSARY to put the worried minds of the citizens of those countries at rest.

UNIDENTIFIED people inside Burqas and Niqabs and Chadors, moving FREELY through the crowded Malls and Streets of our inner cities in ever INCREASING numbers, DO NOT placate anxious citizens nor alleviate their fears - perfectly understandable fears given the carnage inflicted upon ORDINARY, UNARMED, INNOCENT CIVILIANS by these terrorist cowards in many Cities throughout the world.

So there is no correlation between any call by the Security Forces or citizens of any free Western Democracy for the very sinister - and franky ludicrous - Burqa to be banned and this IMPOSING of Muslim dress and Muslim ideology on young schoolchildren who are not of that culture and not of that faith, at the cost of their own culture and faith, and with barbaric punishments for non-compliance.

There is also no correlation between the Burqa, Niqab, and Chador and the attire of Christian Nuns.

A Nun's attire does not fully conceal her gender nor her identity, and the Roman Catholic Church has not declared war on ALL Mankind, and is not currently committing atrocities within most countries of the world, and even in the comparatively rare incidents of evil Christian Extremist factions having committed atrocities in the name of God - there is NO evidence that Nuns have assisted them by concealing weapons and bombs beneath their habits.

Unfortunately, the same cannot be said of some Burqa and Niqab wearing Muslim women.

Great rebuttal post, kirk :clap1:

[Maru]

Ok, I have finished the thread...

I don't mind if we immigrate some to the US as long as there are stringent (and reasonable) checks on who is coming in and out. It should be a process, just like with all other immigrants and it should be across the board the same process... because whose to say they won't hire someone of another nationality (a first world country) to try to get in for more nefarious purposes... stopping all obvious Muslims from entering from obvious regions doesn't really stop the threat. It's just profiling. :shrug:

kirk's argument that I quoted is closer to arguments I've heard in the US.

Most people I have seen with the headdress are a Hijab. Occasionally a Khimar... and maybe 1-2 my entire life, a chador (usually a woman accompanied by her husband and family).

I have no issue with Muslim or Christian dress personally... it's not encroaching my personal rights and compared to the other weird and mundane things we see here, it's not entirely out of place :laugh: There are things in our culture far more detrimental for us than a hijab.

We should de-stigmatize our reaction to this religion... but it's unlikely given the course we have already taken. Our enemies already are fighting inside our borders, so to speak, and all we've been doing is giving them the tools to help us implode. They'll only use further restrictions we place against Muslims as arguments to form a counter-resistance. We shouldn't ignore the threat... but on the other hand, we have to understand how advanced and brazen our enemy is. They will use any restriction we place to their advantage.

In short, turning our own countries inside out won't necessarily stop the threat of extremism... but will create a false sense of security that our enemies will--with time, money, energy and willpower--will find a way to circumvent anyway...

Russia was able to disrupt our elections using leaks (supposedly) and it's our exclusive nature that is making us very easy targets for our enemies. In effect, we have given them their greatest weapon, which is ourselves... so in that respect, the war after all has already begun.

[Kizzy]

Great rebuttal post, kirk :clap1:

Great? Right, I would like some evidence of women carrying bombs and weapons beneath their clothing for this rebuttal to have any credence whatsoever.

[jaxie]

Great? Right, I would like some evidence of women carrying bombs and weapons beneath their clothing for this rebuttal to have any credence whatsoever.

It's been on the news. :shrug:

One that springs to mind is some of the girls kidnapped by Boko haram were drugged and sent off with suicide bombs under their clothes.

This is one but there are others.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/kidnapped-drugged-and-strapped-into-suicide-vest-nigerian-mother/

[Ammi]

..I'm sure that there have been instances of certain clothing being used to 'mask' for sinister and hate filled intensions but it's still not the clothing to be feared..(in my opinion..)...it's those people themselves who do this and they're doing a great job in making the world fearful of things they don't need to be fearful of...isn't that the whole principle of extreme terrorism, to turn us all against each other in intolerance and fear...

[jaxie]

..I'm sure that there have been instances of certain clothing being used to 'mask' for sinister and hate filled intensions but it's still not the clothing to be feared..(in my opinion..)...it's those people themselves who do this and they're doing a great job in making the world fearful of things they don't need to be fearful of...isn't that the whole principle of extreme terrorism, to turn us all against each other in intolerance and fear...

You are right in a way but I think any clothing forced on women for the sake of modesty is pretty fearful in itself.

[Ammi]

You are right in a way but I think any clothing forced on women for the sake of modesty is pretty fearful in itself.

..yeah it's a bit of a tricky one really because to ban is also oppressing in itself, so further oppressing who we feel are oppressed...and is the head of the school in the story also a female..(I need to re-read the story...)...so it's also that continuing of oppression not being the answer if her belief is to do to other females what has been done to females by males...

[Brillopad]

Great post:thumbs:
And very relevant since whenever a thread comes along showing just how backwards and nasty Islam can be there are inevitably always either apologists,excusers or comparisons made to try and deflect attention off the topic and attempts to denigrate Western countries and anyone who disagrees with this barbaric ideology.It beggers belief.

Well said:cheer2:

[kirklancaster]

Great rebuttal post, kirk :clap1:

Sincere thanks Maru - This is praise indeed coming from you. Thank you.

[Kizzy]

It's been on the news. :shrug:

One that springs to mind is some of the girls kidnapped by Boko haram were drugged and sent off with suicide bombs under their clothes.

This is one but there are others.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/kidnapped-drugged-and-strapped-into-suicide-vest-nigerian-mother/



Everyone wears 'clothes'... it does not specify that they chose her for her choice of attire does it?

[jaxie]

Everyone wears 'clothes'... it does not specify that they chose her for her choice of attire does it?

I gave you the information you asked for. :shrug:

I am also a bit stumped by your reply. You asked for an example of women or girls wearing bombs under their clothing. I gave an example of that and now you are saying everyone wears clothes. I don't get what you are saying here.

[Withano]

It's been on the news. :shrug:

One that springs to mind is some of the girls kidnapped by Boko haram were drugged and sent off with suicide bombs under their clothes.

This is one but there are others.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/05/23/kidnapped-drugged-and-strapped-into-suicide-vest-nigerian-mother/

Cant think of any examples of people in suits or trackies carrying weapons so this is a fantastic point

Oh wait, maybe theres some, maybe we shouldnt generalise because there seems to be absolutely zero correlation between different types of clothes and weapons? Or we could just carry on being irrational generalisations?

(Not just you, theres a few that seemed to agree with Kirks silly post)

[Niamh.]

Cant think of any examples of people in suits or trackies carrying weapons so this is a fantastic point

Oh wait, maybe theres some, maybe we shouldnt generalise because there seems to be absolutely zero correlation between different types of clothes and weapons? Or we could just carry on being irrational generalisations?

(Not just you, theres a few that seemed to agree with Kirks silly post)

actually this article I saw on Fb isn't unrelated to that point :

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/jo-cox-murderer-page-30-daily-mail-james-obrien/

[jaxie]

Cant think of any examples of people in suits or trackies carrying weapons so this is a fantastic point

Oh wait, maybe theres some, maybe we shouldnt generalise because there seems to be absolutely zero correlation between different types of clothes and weapons? Or we could just carry on being irrational generalisations?

(Not just you, theres a few that seemed to agree with Kirks silly post)

Let's be straight, Kizzy asked how Kirk knew woman and girls had been involved in bombing by hiding bombs in their clothing. I pointed out it had been on the news and provided a link about one such situation. That's it. You can keep all the insinuation about generalisations to yourself. They are completely out of context.

A question was asked, I pointed out one source for the answer.

If you want examples of people in trackies with bombs look up Boston Marathon. It wasn't part of the question asked.

Do you literally have to jump on anything said that isn't your view and take it out of context?

[Tom4784]

actually this article I saw on Fb isn't unrelated to that point :

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/jo-cox-murderer-page-30-daily-mail-james-obrien/

He knocked the nail on it's head so hard that the nail ripped open a black hole in the space time continuum and has doomed us all to perish in it's ever expanding mass of non-existence.

[jaxie]

He knocked the nail on it's head so hard that the nail ripped open a black hole in the space time continuum and has doomed us all to perish in it's ever expanding mass of non-existence.

Except it was totally irrelevant and out of context. :shrug:

[Withano]

actually this article I saw on Fb isn't unrelated to that point :

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/jo-cox-murderer-page-30-daily-mail-james-obrien/

I completely love James OBrien, I'll have to watch this at some point!

[arista]

I completely love James OBrien, I'll have to watch this at some point!

No James LEFT WING O' Brien
rants on far to long.
He says something , then says or maybe I am Wrong?????


Feck Knows why he is on Newsnight BBC2HD
every odd day the BBC workers are ill.


I want him on a TV Panel
"Crying."

[arista]

He knocked the nail on it's head so hard that the nail ripped open a black hole in the space time continuum and has doomed us all to perish in it's ever expanding mass of non-existence.


He may get that Right
But alot of the Time HE IS RANTING


He has had a Breakdown Live on LBC
More USA Callers Live Dig him Down

[arista]

nobody actually learns anything using the dailymail and jihadwatch as their sources, even if they think they do. Youth hasnt stopped me from using my intuition on this one so I think I'll manage.

Hang On he used the Daily Express
and others as well.
Youth is
needed more in this Section


intuition--- Yes That you have
Respect to you Withano



My feeds cover Left and Right
and Ch4HD News Live 7PM
is not caught in that BBC mess

[Brillopad]

He knocked the nail on it's head so hard that the nail ripped open a black hole in the space time continuum and has doomed us all to perish in it's ever expanding mass of non-existence.

Stuff and nonsense :joker:

[Kizzy]

Let's be straight, Kizzy asked how Kirk knew woman and girls had been involved in bombing by hiding bombs in their clothing. I pointed out it had been on the news and provided a link about one such situation. That's it. You can keep all the insinuation about generalisations to yourself. They are completely out of context.

A question was asked, I pointed out one source for the answer.

If you want examples of people in trackies with bombs look up Boston Marathon. It wasn't part of the question asked.

Do you literally have to jump on anything said that isn't your view and take it out of context?

They had attempted to get a woman to hide something under her clothes, she didn't.
They were not the specific items referred to by kirk either were they? That was my point.
:/

[kirklancaster]

Great? Right, I would like some evidence of women carrying bombs and weapons beneath their clothing for this rebuttal to have any credence whatsoever.

Here is the evidence which you ask for; there is a great wealth more, but I should think this will suffice:

25th Dec 2002: Two assailants in burqas threw a grenade among worshippers attending Christmas Day Mass in the village of Chianwala, Northwest of Lahore, killing three and wounding thirteen.

1st Oct 2007: Bomber kills 15 in Pakistan: A burqa-wearing suicide bomber of undetermined sex has killed at least 15 people and injuring 22 at a crowded police checkpoint in Bannu, near the North Waziristan tribal region, about 110 miles south of Peshawar.

4th Dec 2007: Woman blows self up at Pakistan army checkpoint: A woman in a burqa carrying a basket over her head, thought to be an Afghan in her 30s, blew herself in*Peshawar*as she approached a checkpost.

24th Dec 2007: Woman with bomb under her burqa caught in Afghanistan: Afghan intelligence agents in*Jalalabad detained a woman, 55, hiding a bomb under her burqa. She had been followed from Kunar after a tip-off before her arrest. An official in Kunar's intelligence department explained that "She was carrying the suicide waistcoat for the Taliban."

14th Aug 2008: Shi'i pilgrims in Iraq: Twin suicide bombings by burqa'ed women*killed 22 and wounded at least 73 Shi'i pilgrims in Iskandariyah, Iraq, as the pilgrims made their way to Karbala, the police chief of Babil province.

25th Dec 2010: Burqa'ed suicide bomber kills 41 in Pakistan: In what may be the largest death toll to date,*Pakistan's first female suicide bomber*approached a security checkpoint as United Nations officials distributed aid in Khar, Bajaur Agency, to over a thousand diplaced people. She first hurled a hand grenade, then detonated an explosive-laden vest. A senior tribal administration official, Sohail Khan, announced that "At least 41 people are dead and more than 60 wounded in the suicide bombing."

10th June 2011: Assassination of Somalia's interior minister: A covered woman (not clear what exactly she was wearing) hiding a bomb killed*Abdi Shakur Sheikh Hassan*in his house in Mogadishu. A niece of the minister, she apparently detonated her explosives after being stopped by security officers; her bomb may have detonated a larger bomb already placed inside the house.


19th August 2011: "Female bombers hit Pakistan police at blast site": The Associated Press reports from Peshawar that a "burqa-clad female suicide bomber attacked police at the scene of an earlier explosion in northwestern Pakistan on Thursday, twin strikes that killed five people and broke a relative lull in [Islamist] violence."

Specifics: "two women approached police guarding [a just-bombed] area. One of the females threw a grenade, then was able to partially detonate her suicide vest, said Shafqat Malik, a police officer with the bomb disposal unit. She appeared to be 16 or 17 years old, he said. "I thought the girl was pregnant as she was walking slowly with another woman. As I tried to push people away, suddenly a blast took place," said police officer Himayat Ullah, who was wounded in the attack.

27th Sept 2013: Burqa clad woman suicide bomber kills unknown number in Helmut Province, Afghanistan: The woman in a full-length burka walked calmly into the drab government office. She moved close to the desk behind which an administrator was shuffling his papers. Others queued around her. Suddenly, without warning, she detonated the suicide vest she was wearing. The explosion flashed a brilliant white on the grainy CCTV before the cameras cut out, obliterating everything – and everyone – in the room.

29th March 2014: Four Burqa clad Taliban attackers in Kabul: Four of the Taliban members who attacked Afghanistan's*Independent Election Commission*compound today, injuring two police officers, wore burqas. None survived the assault.

13th Aug 2014: Four suicide bombings in northern Nigeria by covered women: A series of suicide bombings carried out by young women carrying*explosives under their body coverings, has wracked northern Nigeria, Agence France-Presse reports. Four such attacks by teenagers took place in July, leaving at least 9 dead and dozens injured. The worst of them, a blast at Kano State Polytechnic on July 30 killed 6 and injured 20. Another took place at an upscale shopping mall.

AFP goes on:
A security source involved in forensic analysis of the Kano blasts noted:
"From our preliminary findings, all the female suicide bombers were between 14 and 16 years which gives an idea of the age group of the bombers."

1st Dec 2014: Murder in a toilet stall:*Ibolya Ryan, a Romanian-born 37-year-old American kindergarten teacher and mother of 11-year-old twin boys, was stabbed to death with a knife on Dec. 1 by a burqa-clad woman who awaited a kafir to attack in the*toilets of the Boutik Mall on Reem Island in Abu Dhabi, UAE. The killer fled scene in a niqab and black gloves.

June 29, 2015 update: An Abu Dhabi court found*Alaa Al Hashemi, 30, an Emirati subject and mother of six, guilty of murdering Ryan and it sentenced her to death by firing squad. In addition, Al Hashemi was convicted of making a bomb (that did not explode) with which she tried to blow up an apartment belonging to an Egyptian-American doctor; of using an online account to spread information ridiculing and harming Abu Dhabi; and of sending money to Al Qaeda in Yemen.*

July 13, 2015 update: Hashemi was*executed*by firing squad.

6th Jan 2015: Attack on Istanbul police station: A female suicide bomber*killed one police officer*and injured another in the Sultan Ahmet district of Istanbul.

Istanbul governor Vasip Sahin told Turkish TV. No group has yet said it was behind the attack, the second on police in a week. ... Mr Sahin said the woman, dressed in a niqab, entered the police station and told officers she had lost her wallet before detonating the bomb.

22nd Oct 2015: Burqa clad suicide bomber kills 11 worshippers in and injures 18 more in Shi'ite mosque in Pakistan: The suicide bomber who entered the*Imambargah Mosque*in Balochistan Province in southwestern Pakistan was wearing a burqa. Police said 11 died and 18 were wounded.

[Kizzy]

Here is the evidence which you ask for; there is a great wealth more, but I should think this will suffice:

25th Dec 2002: Two assailants in burqas threw a grenade among worshippers attending Christmas Day Mass in the village of Chianwala, Northwest of Lahore, killing three and wounding thirteen.

1st Oct 2007: Bomber kills 15 in Pakistan: A burqa-wearing suicide bomber of undetermined sex has killed at least 15 people and injuring 22 at a crowded police checkpoint in Bannu, near the North Waziristan tribal region, about 110 miles south of Peshawar.

4th Dec 2007: Woman blows self up at Pakistan army checkpoint: A woman in a burqa carrying a basket over her head, thought to be an Afghan in her 30s, blew herself in*Peshawar*as she approached a checkpost.

24th Dec 2007: Woman with bomb under her burqa caught in Afghanistan: Afghan intelligence agents in*Jalalabad detained a woman, 55, hiding a bomb under her burqa. She had been followed from Kunar after a tip-off before her arrest. An official in Kunar's intelligence department explained that "She was carrying the suicide waistcoat for the Taliban."

14th Aug 2008: Shi'i pilgrims in Iraq: Twin suicide bombings by burqa'ed women*killed 22 and wounded at least 73 Shi'i pilgrims in Iskandariyah, Iraq, as the pilgrims made their way to Karbala, the police chief of Babil province.

25th Dec 2010: Burqa'ed suicide bomber kills 41 in Pakistan: In what may be the largest death toll to date,*Pakistan's first female suicide bomber*approached a security checkpoint as United Nations officials distributed aid in Khar, Bajaur Agency, to over a thousand diplaced people. She first hurled a hand grenade, then detonated an explosive-laden vest. A senior tribal administration official, Sohail Khan, announced that "At least 41 people are dead and more than 60 wounded in the suicide bombing."

10th June 2011: Assassination of Somalia's interior minister: A covered woman (not clear what exactly she was wearing) hiding a bomb killed*Abdi Shakur Sheikh Hassan*in his house in Mogadishu. A niece of the minister, she apparently detonated her explosives after being stopped by security officers; her bomb may have detonated a larger bomb already placed inside the house.


19th August 2011: "Female bombers hit Pakistan police at blast site": The Associated Press reports from Peshawar that a "burqa-clad female suicide bomber attacked police at the scene of an earlier explosion in northwestern Pakistan on Thursday, twin strikes that killed five people and broke a relative lull in [Islamist] violence."

Specifics: "two women approached police guarding [a just-bombed] area. One of the females threw a grenade, then was able to partially detonate her suicide vest, said Shafqat Malik, a police officer with the bomb disposal unit. She appeared to be 16 or 17 years old, he said. "I thought the girl was pregnant as she was walking slowly with another woman. As I tried to push people away, suddenly a blast took place," said police officer Himayat Ullah, who was wounded in the attack.

27th Sept 2013: Burqa clad woman suicide bomber kills unknown number in Helmut Province, Afghanistan: The woman in a full-length burka walked calmly into the drab government office. She moved close to the desk behind which an administrator was shuffling his papers. Others queued around her. Suddenly, without warning, she detonated the suicide vest she was wearing. The explosion flashed a brilliant white on the grainy CCTV before the cameras cut out, obliterating everything – and everyone – in the room.

29th March 2014: Four Burqa clad Taliban attackers in Kabul: Four of the Taliban members who attacked Afghanistan's*Independent Election Commission*compound today, injuring two police officers, wore burqas. None survived the assault.

13th Aug 2014: Four suicide bombings in northern Nigeria by covered women: A series of suicide bombings carried out by young women carrying*explosives under their body coverings, has wracked northern Nigeria, Agence France-Presse reports. Four such attacks by teenagers took place in July, leaving at least 9 dead and dozens injured. The worst of them, a blast at Kano State Polytechnic on July 30 killed 6 and injured 20. Another took place at an upscale shopping mall.

AFP goes on:
A security source involved in forensic analysis of the Kano blasts noted:
"From our preliminary findings, all the female suicide bombers were between 14 and 16 years which gives an idea of the age group of the bombers."

1st Dec 2014: Murder in a toilet stall:*Ibolya Ryan, a Romanian-born 37-year-old American kindergarten teacher and mother of 11-year-old twin boys, was stabbed to death with a knife on Dec. 1 by a burqa-clad woman who awaited a kafir to attack in the*toilets of the Boutik Mall on Reem Island in Abu Dhabi, UAE. The killer fled scene in a niqab and black gloves.

June 29, 2015 update: An Abu Dhabi court found*Alaa Al Hashemi, 30, an Emirati subject and mother of six, guilty of murdering Ryan and it sentenced her to death by firing squad. In addition, Al Hashemi was convicted of making a bomb (that did not explode) with which she tried to blow up an apartment belonging to an Egyptian-American doctor; of using an online account to spread information ridiculing and harming Abu Dhabi; and of sending money to Al Qaeda in Yemen.*

July 13, 2015 update: Hashemi was*executed*by firing squad.

6th Jan 2015: Attack on Istanbul police station: A female suicide bomber*killed one police officer*and injured another in the Sultan Ahmet district of Istanbul.

Istanbul governor Vasip Sahin told Turkish TV. No group has yet said it was behind the attack, the second on police in a week. ... Mr Sahin said the woman, dressed in a niqab, entered the police station and told officers she had lost her wallet before detonating the bomb.

22nd Oct 2015: Burqa clad suicide bomber kills 11 worshippers in and injures 18 more in Shi'ite mosque in Pakistan: The suicide bomber who entered the*Imambargah Mosque*in Balochistan Province in southwestern Pakistan was wearing a burqa. Police said 11 died and 18 were wounded.

No links to these news items?

[kirklancaster]

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Yes thanks.