View Full Version : Migrants Burn Down Asylum Centre:‘There’s Not Enough Nutella and Gummibears!’
kirklancaster
22-11-2016, 05:54 PM
YOU COULD NOT MAKE IT UP - BUT NO DOUBT THERE WILL BE THOSE IN THE UK WHO SAY IT DID NOT HAPPEN:
Migrants burned down their OWN Asylum Centre, injuring 26 people and causing €10 million in damage, during Ramadan because they thought they were not being given enough FREE chocolate and candy.
http://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/11/migrants-burn-down-dusseldorf-asylum-centre-640x480.jpg
Two men have been charged for setting fire to the hall, which was being used as an asylum centre, in an attack that lit a hundred-metre high pillar of smoke that could be seen from across Düsseldorf.
“It was triggered by a dispute about food during Ramadan,” a spokesman for the state court said of the criminal act, which left 26 people injured. The hall, which had previously been used for staging conferences and exhibitions, was burned down completely resulting in 10 million euros’ worth of damage.
German Red Cross employees reported that the arson attack on June 7 happened as a result of inflamed tensions during the Islamic month of fasting, in which Muslims choose not to eat during daylight hours.
KIRK COMMENT: How SAFE are the Germans NOW? If some of these nutters can erupt like this over FECKING CHOCOLATE - What is going to happen when the ungrateful Bastards are DENIED something REALLY serious?
Ordinary lunchtime meals in the asylum centre were cancelled during Ramadan, to the dismay of non-Muslims, with hot food served only early morning and late evening. A spread of cold food was put out during the day for migrants who weren’t fasting.
Olaf Lehne, district head of the German Red Cross, revealed migrants set fire to the hall in anger that chocolate spread and confectionery was available at the buffet in daylight hours. “There isn’t enough Nutella, Gummibears, and chocolate,” they shouted.
German Red Cross Kitchen Master Stefan Gross said: “Most [migrants] were satisfied. There are always very few who complain.”
KIRK COMMENT: For those who complain - SEND THE UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS BACK.
The two men who have now been charged by the state prosecutor are Algerian Adel D., with aggravated arson and dangerous bodily harm, and Moroccan Mohammed B., who called on other migrants to start fires, with acting as his accomplice to both offences.
A monthly tracker of public attitudes towards key issues last week showed Germany has now overtaken the United Kingdom as the most concerned nation in Europe on the subject of immigration, a significant development for a nation which has long prided itself on their openness to migrants.
KIRK COMMENT:The Germans Following Our Lead. Great Britain - THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET - leading the way again folks.
Lostie!
22-11-2016, 05:59 PM
Great, more ammo for the bigots to tar them all with the same brush.
Cherie
22-11-2016, 06:07 PM
Great, more ammo for the bigots to tar them all with the same brush.
Maybe we should focus on the idiots who carried out the arson attack in return for asylum :umm2:: and condemn them rather than rushing to gloss over it?
Brillopad
22-11-2016, 06:13 PM
YOU COULD NOT MAKE IT UP - BUT NO DOUBT THERE WILL BE THOSE IN THE UK WHO SAY IT DID NOT HAPPEN:
Migrants burned down their OWN Asylum Centre, injuring 26 people and causing €10 million in damage, during Ramadan because they thought they were not being given enough FREE chocolate and candy.
http://media.breitbart.com/media/2016/11/migrants-burn-down-dusseldorf-asylum-centre-640x480.jpg
Two men have been charged for setting fire to the hall, which was being used as an asylum centre, in an attack that lit a hundred-metre high pillar of smoke that could be seen from across Düsseldorf.
“It was triggered by a dispute about food during Ramadan,” a spokesman for the state court said of the criminal act, which left 26 people injured. The hall, which had previously been used for staging conferences and exhibitions, was burned down completely resulting in 10 million euros’ worth of damage.
German Red Cross employees reported that the arson attack on June 7 happened as a result of inflamed tensions during the Islamic month of fasting, in which Muslims choose not to eat during daylight hours.
KIRK COMMENT: How SAFE are the Germans NOW? If some of these nutters can erupt like this over FECKING CHOCOLATE - What is going to happen when the ungrateful Bastards are DENIED something REALLY serious?
Ordinary lunchtime meals in the asylum centre were cancelled during Ramadan, to the dismay of non-Muslims, with hot food served only early morning and late evening. A spread of cold food was put out during the day for migrants who weren’t fasting.
Olaf Lehne, district head of the German Red Cross, revealed migrants set fire to the hall in anger that chocolate spread and confectionery was available at the buffet in daylight hours. “There isn’t enough Nutella, Gummibears, and chocolate,” they shouted.
German Red Cross Kitchen Master Stefan Gross said: “Most [migrants] were satisfied. There are always very few who complain.”
KIRK COMMENT: For those who complain - SEND THE UNGRATEFUL BASTARDS BACK.
The two men who have now been charged by the state prosecutor are Algerian Adel D., with aggravated arson and dangerous bodily harm, and Moroccan Mohammed B., who called on other migrants to start fires, with acting as his accomplice to both offences.
A monthly tracker of public attitudes towards key issues last week showed Germany has now overtaken the United Kingdom as the most concerned nation in Europe on the subject of immigration, a significant development for a nation which has long prided itself on their openness to migrants.
KIRK COMMENT:The Germans Following Our Lead. Great Britain - THE GREATEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET - leading the way again folks.
After serving their sentence they should be deported. Why would anyone want morons like them here, we have enough of our own.
An increasing number of migrants seem to expect rather than appreciate. Personally I have no desire whatsoever to give handouts to them or to provide any help whatsoever.
The more migrants that come into Britain, the more potentially dangerous idiots like that will be dumped on us and our benefit system. No thanks!
Northern Monkey
22-11-2016, 06:14 PM
FFS:joker:
WTF is Merkel trying to do to her country?
And these cheeky bastards (as Kirk says) should be shipped straight back to whichever backwards islamic country they came from.See how many Gummy Bears they get there.
Merkel is putting Germany straight on course for a far right extremist government.How long will the German people stand for all this?
Sexual assaults on New Years celebrations,Stabbings on trains,Attempted terror attacks and much more.
When the Germans do fight back the only person to blame will be Merkel.
user104658
22-11-2016, 06:48 PM
I'm not denying that the place burned down in a fire started by ungrateful people who actually lived there, but come on. Come on guys. It wasn't because there weren't enough gummy bears :joker:. That's just straight up ludicrous.
Shaun
22-11-2016, 07:19 PM
Considered a job at the Daily Express, kirk?
jaxie
22-11-2016, 07:54 PM
Maybe we should focus on the idiots who carried out the arson attack in return for asylum :umm2:: and condemn them rather than rushing to gloss over it?
:clap2:
jaxie
22-11-2016, 07:56 PM
Great, more ammo for the bigots to tar them all with the same brush.
What a nasty thing to say. :shrug:
kirklancaster
22-11-2016, 08:25 PM
Great, more ammo for the bigots to tar them all with the same brush.
Who are the 'Bigots'?:
Bigot
ˈbɪɡət/
noun
plural noun: bigots
a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.
Those reporting a TRUTH? Or those who DENY that truth? Or who wish to 'Sweep It Under A Carpet'?
Neither the article, nor I, have been prejudiced or even attempted to 'tar anyone' else with 'the same brush' as these two ungrateful bastards:
The Newspaper sought to be fair and imparted 'balance' by include a statement that:
"German Red Cross Kitchen Master Stefan Gross said: “Most [migrants] were satisfied. There are always very few who complain.”
And I sought to be as equally fair by EMBOLDENING the relevant part of that statement so that it was not so easily overlooked by the reader.
check my post and you will SEE that this is TRUE.
If you really view fair and honest reportage such as this, as supplying 'more ammo' to anyone who holds an opposing view to yours on 'unfettered open door immigration', then you need look no further than the HUNDREDS of IMMIGRANTS who DAILY commit criminal, anti-social, anti Democratic and VIOLENT acts in EVERY country which has open their borders to them, opened their hearts to them, and embraced them.
It is THEY and THEY alone, who are making their own 'bullets, AND betraying their fellow immigrants, as well as all the generous Countries which took them in.
Tom4784
22-11-2016, 08:34 PM
Link for this story? I've tried finding articles through google but nothing related to it has come up.
Yeah I can't find a valid source for this that isn't the likes of 'jihadiwatch.org' or 'conservativeangle.com' - in fact, TiBB is one of the top four results on Google
But since many people on here enjoy the post-truth world we're living in, I doubt that'll matter all that much
Brillopad
22-11-2016, 08:39 PM
Great, more ammo for the bigots to tar them all with the same brush.
Oh that so predictable nasty cop-out word! :nono:
When you're using a story which hasn't been sourced or even been proven to be real to suggest that migrants should be "shipped back towards whichever Islamic country they came from", yeah, I reckon the use of that word's validated
Brillopad
22-11-2016, 08:48 PM
When you're using a story which hasn't been sourced or even been proven to be real to suggest that migrants should be "shipped back towards whichever Islamic country they came from", yeah, I reckon the use of that word's validated
We have no reason to believe it isn't true. If it is - I stand by every word.
Dailymail has a different wording of it (read: less click-baity)
Refugee camp in Dusseldorf is burned down by migrants 'who were furious they had not received a wake-up for Ramadan breakfast'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3632965/Refugee-camp-Dusseldorf-burned-migrants-furious-not-received-wake-Ramadan-breakfast.html
Brillopad
22-11-2016, 09:00 PM
Dailymail has a different wording of it
Refugee camp in Dusseldorf is burned down by migrants 'who were furious they had not received a wake-up for Ramadan breakfast'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3632965/Refugee-camp-Dusseldorf-burned-migrants-furious-not-received-wake-Ramadan-breakfast.html
Oh please don't mention The Mail, a certain person not far from here will flip!
kirklancaster
22-11-2016, 09:06 PM
Link for this story? I've tried finding articles through google but nothing related to it has come up.
Can you please alert MB to these links also Dezzy, because it will save me duplicating them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3632965/Refugee-camp-Dusseldorf-burned-migrants-furious-not-received-wake-Ramadan-breakfast.html
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/11/21/migrants-burn-hall-candy-fasting-hours/
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/11/germany-muslim-migrants-burn-down-hall-screaming-there-isnt-enough-nutella-gummibears-and-chocolate
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-shelter-burnt-down-in-germany-after-dispute-among-asylum-seekers-over-ramadan-meals-a7074831.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36487781 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-
36487781)
Will these suffice? Or do you need the full 18,000 links to the articles reporting this TRUTH?
I could post another, 140 RELATED articles on IMMIGRANT CRIME and VIOLENCE, if that will help convince you or MB that there is a very REAL and CLEAR and PRESENT DANGER in allowing one's country to be FLOODED by immigrants without PROPER vetting and SECURITY checks, but something tels me that it would not do any good.
kirklancaster
22-11-2016, 09:08 PM
Dailymail has a different wording of it (read: less click-baity)
Refugee camp in Dusseldorf is burned down by migrants 'who were furious they had not received a wake-up for Ramadan breakfast'
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3632965/Refugee-camp-Dusseldorf-burned-migrants-furious-not-received-wake-Ramadan-breakfast.html
Some trivialities may differ in one report to another, but the TENET remains irrefutable.
They burnt down the Asylum Centre because they DID NOT GET THEIR OWN WAY.
Oh please don't mention The Mail, a certain person not far from here will flip!
I don't care. :laugh: I'm just posting what I found... the rest were mostly conservative websites. Doesn't necessarily mean it's not a valid... just means mainstream media isn't really picking it up.
Seems that a lot of arson related crimes are common to these centers as of late...
This is a consolidated report of it:
Up in smoke: 45 arson attacks carried out on refugee centers in Germany in 2016
https://www.rt.com/news/343037-refugees-germany-arson-centers/
This is an instance where a firsthand account or local media would be far more enlightening. If it is true though, the narrative of it all being down to chocolate... will it really change people's political perceptions on the matter of immigration policies? I think not.
Brillopad
22-11-2016, 09:23 PM
I don't care. :laugh: I'm just posting what I found... the rest were mostly conservative websites. Doesn't necessarily mean it's not a valid... just means mainstream media isn't really picking it up.
Seems that a lot of arson related crimes are common to these centers as of late...
This is a consolidated report of it:
Up in smoke: 45 arson attacks carried out on refugee centers in Germany in 2016
https://www.rt.com/news/343037-refugees-germany-arson-centers/
This is an instance where a firsthand account or local media would be far more enlightening. If it is true though, the narrative of it all being down to chocolate... will it really change people's political perceptions on the matter of immigration policies? I think not.
Very worrying times ahead judging by that. The bit about the Syrian refugee admitting attempting to frame the far-right, that isn't the first time I have heard that.
kirklancaster
22-11-2016, 09:24 PM
I don't care. :laugh: I'm just posting what I found... the rest were mostly conservative websites. Doesn't necessarily mean it's not a valid... just means mainstream media isn't really picking it up.
Seems that a lot of arson related crimes are common to these centers as of late...
This is a consolidated report of it:
Up in smoke: 45 arson attacks carried out on refugee centers in Germany in 2016
https://www.rt.com/news/343037-refugees-germany-arson-centers/
This is an instance where a firsthand account or local media would be far more enlightening. If it is true though, the narrative of it all being down to chocolate... will it really change people's political perceptions on the matter of immigration policies? I think not.
I agree Maru, but though I BELIEVE that some complainants were shouting about their need for choccy woccy, I don't think that the chocolate was ALL they were complaining about when the reports from other sources are read.
I was just being a tad lazy. :laugh:
That link is very interesting by the way.
I just love devoting hours of research on events that 'Did NOT happen'. :laugh:
By the way, I came across this by some wag on the internet:
"The gelatin that is used to make gummi bears is made from rendered PORK bones. Yuuuuummmy!"
Some trivialities may differ in one report to another, but the TENET remains irrefutable.
They burnt down the Asylum Centre because they DID NOT GET THEIR OWN WAY.
Oh I agree, however it is worded... a silly and ridiculous reason to burn down a building. Again, only knowing what I have heard from people who deal with them first hand... criminals have and will commit crimes for the silliest and often stupidest of reasons. Often there are stories around it that involve details the public often will not accept and are unwilling to believe. We are desensitized to political rhetoric and are sheltered from most of the weird world we co-exist with--it's not only the mundane things fly under the radar, but often times really telling stories that enlighten to as what really goes on in the rest of the world... much less what is happening underneath our noses.
Our neighbors south of the border, imo, don't bring in some of the more colorful headlines that I read on here... many are hardworking folk that come in, but I think in Europe, the experiences/opinions will be more diverse as far as immigration is concerned, complicated by political uprisings and the media spin...that's without even bringing up terrorism. We only have to worry about a secondary language in terms of integrating illegal immigrants, whereas you have to provide support folk from multiple backgrounds, regions as well as the social problems that follow them here. I couldn't begin to dissect all that as my knowledge is limited mostly to the US in that respect. My husband is very knowledgeable in world history, especially military history, various cultural and geographical issues in Europe... so he is the one who usually enlightens me on those subjects. :laugh:
Tom4784
22-11-2016, 09:36 PM
Can you please alert MB to these links also Dezzy, because it will save me duplicating them.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3632965/Refugee-camp-Dusseldorf-burned-migrants-furious-not-received-wake-Ramadan-breakfast.html
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/11/21/migrants-burn-hall-candy-fasting-hours/
https://www.jihadwatch.org/2016/11/germany-muslim-migrants-burn-down-hall-screaming-there-isnt-enough-nutella-gummibears-and-chocolate
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/refugee-shelter-burnt-down-in-germany-after-dispute-among-asylum-seekers-over-ramadan-meals-a7074831.html
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36487781 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-
36487781)
Will these suffice? Or do you need the full 18,000 links to the articles reporting this TRUTH?
I could post another, 140 RELATED articles on IMMIGRANT CRIME and VIOLENCE, if that will help convince you or MB that there is a very REAL and CLEAR and PRESENT DANGER in allowing one's country to be FLOODED by immigrants without PROPER vetting and SECURITY checks, but something tels me that it would not do any good.
The BBC link doesn't work and the Independent article tells quite a different story to the one in the OP, it wasn't about not getting free sweets but about a difference of opinion that the two idiots took too far and will be rightfully punished for their actions. Hardly grounds to damn an entire people.
Breitbart is a biased source as is 'Jihadwatch' (Jesus ****ing Christ....) while the Daily Mail is the Daily Mail.
I agree Maru, but though I BELIEVE that some complainants were shouting about their need for choccy woccy, I don't think that the chocolate was ALL they were complaining about when the reports from other sources are read.
I was just being a tad lazy. :laugh:
That link is very interesting by the way.
I just love devoting hours of research on events that 'Did NOT happen'. :laugh:
By the way, I came across this by some wag on the internet:
"The gelatin that is used to make gummi bears is made from rendered PORK bones. Yuuuuummmy!"
Oh when I say I don't care... it's to say I don't care if someone becomes disgruntled over something that comes down to wording. We all have differing perspectives on things. I can accept this easily.
Kirk, I wish my husband had more time to post... he would be really enlightening as to the idiotic things that go on where he works. Not really pertaining to those who are mentally ill, but those in housing... he has talk people through some of their own reasoning to get them to change their mind and to go from resistance to compliance... people are just silly.
Other stories are just downright not believable. Most officers say they have been asked some details and when they tell folk, they just can't believe it... Some things are closer to the truth than people actually really realize :laugh:
As a debater though, I can't really debate something without non-biased sources... I tend to believe the sillier side of things, again... from vast experience and my husband's own stories, I can't immediately discount it. Still, I don't think that it would even change the mind of someone on the opposing side to hear these stories... for most folk, seeing is believing. But good luck with that, some people are too busy playing armchair politician to check what really happens outside their chair... aside from that, most counter arguments on this board are from an emotional standpoint... and you can't argue someone's feeling on matters. That's really personal to them and I've never successfully changed someone's 'feeling' about something... it comes down to their willpower and willingness to leave their comfort zone and look for perspective.
That last bit was a little OT, but I guess it applies to this thread.
kirklancaster
22-11-2016, 09:39 PM
Oh I agree, however it is worded... a silly and ridiculous reason to burn down a building. Again, only knowing what I have heard from people who deal with them first hand... criminals have and will commit crimes for the silliest and often stupidest of reasons. Often there are stories around it that involve details the public often will not accept and are unwilling to believe. We are desensitized to political rhetoric and are sheltered from most of the weird world we co-exist with--it's not only the mundane things fly under the radar, but often times really telling stories that enlighten to as what really goes on in the rest of the world... much less what is happening underneath our noses.
Our neighbors south of the border, imo, don't bring in some of the more colorful headlines that I read on here... many are hardworking folk that come in, but I think in Europe, the experiences/opinions will be more diverse as far as immigration is concerned, complicated by political uprisings and the media spin...that's without even bringing up terrorism. We only have to worry about a secondary language in terms of integrating illegal immigrants, whereas you have to provide support folk from multiple backgrounds, regions as well as the social problems that follow them here. I couldn't begin to dissect all that as my knowledge is limited mostly to the US in that respect. My husband is very knowledgeable in world history, especially military history, various cultural and geographical issues in Europe... so he is the one who usually enlightens me on those subjects. :laugh:
:laugh: If your hubby is REALLY your superior in knowledge on ANY subject Maru, I would HATE to be called upon to adjudicate any intellectual argument in your home between hubby and you. :laugh:
I would not - frankly - be equal to the task. (I shall blame dilapidation due my old age. :hee:)
kirklancaster
22-11-2016, 09:43 PM
Oh when I say I don't care... it's to say I don't care if someone becomes disgruntled over something that comes down to wording. We all have differing perspectives on things. I can accept this easily.
Kirk, I wish my husband had more time to post... he would be really enlightening as to the idiotic things that go on where he works. Not really pertaining to those who are mentally ill, but those in housing... he has talk people through some of their own reasoning to get them to change their mind and to go from resistance to compliance... people are just silly.
Other stories are just downright not believable. Most officers say they have been asked some details and when they tell folk, they just can't believe it... Some things are closer to the truth than people actually really realize :laugh:
As a debater though, I can't really debate something without non-biased sources... I tend to believe the sillier side of things, again... from vast experience and my husband's own stories, I can't immediately discount it. Still, I don't think that it would even change the mind of someone on the opposing side to hear these stories... for most folk, seeing is believing. But good luck with that, some people are too busy playing armchair politician to check what really happens outside their chair... aside from that, most counter arguments on this board are from an emotional standpoint... and you can't argue someone's feeling on matters. That's really personal to them and I've never successfully changed someone's 'feeling' about something... it comes down to their willpower and willingness to leave their comfort zone and look for perspective.
That last bit was a little OT, but I guess it applies to this thread.
Another great post Maru, and I will plagiarise the emboldened bit to use in one of my off-Tib debates. :laugh:
:laugh: If your hubby is REALLY your superior in knowledge on ANY subject Maru, I would HATE to be called upon to adjudicate any intellectual argument in your home between hubby and you. :laugh:
I would not - frankly - be equal to the task. (I shall blame dilapidation due my old age. :hee:)
I've lost plenty of arguments, kirk :laugh: My current post count is nothing compared to what it used to be in my college/heavily caffeinated years.
Another great post Maru, and I will plagiarise the emboldened bit to use in one of my off-Tib debates. :laugh:
It's a shame I put up my troll stick from so long ago. :laugh: I have some wittier ones. Between the hub and I, I've coined "intellectual masturbation"... I really should get a copyright :laugh:
Withano
22-11-2016, 09:57 PM
The BBC link doesn't work and the Independent article tells quite a different story to the one in the OP, it wasn't about not getting free sweets but about a difference of opinion that the two idiots took too far and will be rightfully punished for their actions. Hardly grounds to damn an entire people.
Breitbart is a biased source as is 'Jihadwatch' (Jesus ****ing Christ....) while the Daily Mail is the Daily Mail.
:clap1:
kirklancaster
22-11-2016, 09:58 PM
It's a shame I put up my troll stick from so long ago. :laugh: I have some wittier ones. Between the hub and I, I've coined "intellectual masturbation"... I really should get a copyright :laugh:
:laugh2: I'll pay no royalties - that BIG POND is between us. :laugh:
:laugh2: I'll pay no royalties - that BIG POND is between us. :laugh:
True!
Kizzy
23-11-2016, 07:05 AM
I am seriously thinking of leaving this forum, the 'alt right' is on the rise here!
What on earth is a thread stating 'send the bastards back' doing on serious debates?..... All week it has just been a barrage of attacks against Muslims or immigrants, thread after thread.
It's beyond a joke now.
Cherie
23-11-2016, 07:12 AM
Makes a change from the a trump threads I guess?
...so terrifying when you think of how this could have turned out and many could be dead now, there's just no condoning or justifying what these two men did in starting the fire...looking at some pics from the Daily Mail and the deflation and despair of people in the centre...:sad:..no thought for them at all and seeming some kind of build up and tensions with some security guards and a few of the centre's occupants and then Ramadan practises being a final trigger in the escalation of those tensions...just a few people causing so much damage and endangering so many...
..the link for the other report of the 45 arson type incidents seems to be mostly incidents by residents/locals against immigrant camps/centres..., not those who are resident in them...80% arson attacks on centres, also endangering all in the camp..it's all extremely worrying with those who obviously fear or hate or whatever their reasoning, possibly becoming themselves the very thing that they fear in their actions...it's so sad how extreme terrorism seems to be winning in it's planting of those fear seeds and then it's just for them to smile at watching them grow and watching the mistrust and fear all destroy itself...
Kizzy
23-11-2016, 07:43 AM
Makes a change from the a trump threads I guess?
The trump threads are what triggered this right wing wankathon....I'm out for a while it stinks in here!!!
(James, Josy sort it out or rename the forum This Is Breitbart Bollox!)
Kiz Out *drops mic
Firewire
23-11-2016, 07:56 AM
I can't believe jihadi watch and brietbart are considered valid sources
kirklancaster
23-11-2016, 08:49 AM
...so terrifying when you think of how this could have turned out and many could be dead now, there's just no condoning or justifying what these two men did in starting the fire...looking at some pics from the Daily Mail and the deflation and despair of people in the centre...:sad:..no thought for them at all and seeming some kind of build up and tensions with some security guards and a few of the centre's occupants and then Ramadan practises being a final trigger in the escalation of those tensions...just a few people causing so much damage and endangering so many...
..the link for the other report of the 45 arson type incidents seems to be mostly incidents by residents/locals against immigrant camps/centres..., not those who are resident in them...80% arson attacks on centres, also endangering all in the camp..it's all extremely worrying with those who obviously fear or hate or whatever their reasoning, possibly becoming themselves the very thing that they fear in their actions...it's so sad how extreme terrorism seems to be winning in it's planting of those fear seeds and then it's just for them to smile at watching them grow and watching the mistrust and fear all destroy itself...
:clap1::clap1::clap1: Great points Ammi, in a fair and balanced post.
kirklancaster
23-11-2016, 08:52 AM
I can't believe jihadi watch and brietbart are considered valid sources
WHY? If WHAT they are reporting is TRUE, and if it mirrors the same reportage from other - more mainstream media, why are they not valid sources?
Did this incident HAPPEN or didn't it. THAT is what is important here.
Cherie
23-11-2016, 09:00 AM
The trump threads are what triggered this right wing wankathon....I'm out for a while it stinks in here!!!
(James, Josy sort it out or rename the forum This Is Breitbart Bollox!)
Kiz Out *drops mic
What exactly would James/Josy be sorting out? the threads are usually in the main reflections of what is dominating the news at any given time, anyone can post a thread as long as it is within the rules of the forum I don't see the issue. You don't have to read or react to every thread Kiz
kirklancaster
23-11-2016, 09:11 AM
What exactly would James/Josy be sorting out? the threads are usually in the main reflections of what is dominating the news at any given time, anyone can post a thread as long as it is within the rules of the forum I don't see the issue. You don't have to read or react to every thread Kiz
:clap1::clap1::clap1:
Brillopad
23-11-2016, 09:17 AM
What exactly would James/Josy be sorting out? the threads are usually in the main reflections of what is dominating the news at any given time, anyone can post a thread as long as it is within the rules of the forum I don't see the issue. You don't have to read or react to every thread Kiz
Certainly a good thread shouldn't be closed or interfered with because a poster is frustrated that many of the opinions aren't in keeping with their own. Debate will always involve having to tolerate opinions that some are not comfortable with - it works both ways.
..the problem is (I think personally..)..is that there is very little debate anymore and it would be better named as Serious Discord or Serious Disrespect Section, so many threads just don't show any resemblance to debate at all but just hostility and defence..any topic worthy of debate or felt in need of debate is becoming lost...
Cherie
23-11-2016, 09:36 AM
..the problem is (I think personally..)..is that there is very little debate anymore and it would be better named as Serious Discord or Serious Disrespect Section, so many threads just don't show any resemblance to debate at all but just hostility and defence..any topic worthy of debate or felt in need of debate is becoming lost...
I think it's more to do with name calling and the word bigot, racist and hypocrite being bandied about which causes offence and stifles any further discussion
Brillopad
23-11-2016, 09:44 AM
[/B]
I think it's more to do with name calling and the word bigot, racist and hypocrite being bandied about which causes offence and stifles any further discussion
Very true. It is often a deliberate attempt to undermine and belittle an opposing opinion which understandably leads to friction.
..there are lots of things that are stifling discussions and leaving little leeway for debate..(in my opinion..)...and all of that is perspective which we all have and which will always differ because that's the at it is ..there's no point in saying it's this/it's that and he said she said and so here we are because it's all contributing equally...and it just really leads/is leading around in circles and going nowhere that will ever lead to a section that is what it's meant to be becoming a possibility...
Cherie
23-11-2016, 10:22 AM
..there are lots of things that are stifling discussions and leaving little leeway for debate..(in my opinion..)...and all of that is perspective which we all have and which will always differ because that's the at it is ..there's no point in saying it's this/it's that and he said she said and so here we are because it's all contributing equally...and it just really leads/is leading around in circles and going nowhere that will ever lead to a section that is what it's meant to be becoming a possibility...
No I don't believe it all contributes equally, there is usually a catalyst, take the migrant fire post, it took to post 2 or 3 for the word bigot to be used, no need for it at all, people aren't going to put up and shut up when called names unnecessarily in the course of a discussion, never mind before the discussion has started :laugh:
kirklancaster
23-11-2016, 10:36 AM
In my honest opinion - there may be legitimate rebuttal of points in a post when such points are merely opinion-based, and THAT is debate, but it is the attacking, denying, dismissing and denigrating of GENUINE IRREFUTABLE TRUTHS in a post just because such truths DESTROY one's argument or opinion and they have no genuine rebuttal, which is THE problem on here.
Sometimes, our views are PROVED to be wrong.
I wholeheartedly believe that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ. My belief rests on one single tenet - that he was crucified and rose body and soul.
Now if someone discovered a GENUINE ossuary in an hitherto undiscovered tomb in Jerusalem, and the inscription on that ossuary proclaimed; Here is Yeshua son of Joseph and Mary, brother of James' and the bones were subsequently dated to the time of Christ, then I would be sick, depressed, and shattered, but I could not DENY the TRUTH that I had laboured under a misapprehension for so long.
Niamh.
23-11-2016, 10:37 AM
In my honest opinion - there may be legitimate rebuttal of points in a post when such points are merely opinion-based, and THAT is debate, but it is the attacking, denying, dismissing and denigrating of GENUINE IRREFUTABLE TRUTHS in a post just because such truths DESTROY one's argument or opinion and they have no genuine rebuttal, which is THE problem on here.
It really isn't
No I don't believe it all contributes equally, there is usually a catalyst, take the migrant fire post, it took to post 2 or 3 for the word bigot to be used, no need for it at all, people aren't going to put up and shut up when called names unnecessarily in the course of a discussion, never mind before the discussion has started :laugh:
..I was just typing out something/my thoughts but then I thought no because that would also be contributing further as well, so I'm just going to leave it with your perspective Cherie...
kirklancaster
23-11-2016, 10:45 AM
It really isn't
Well can I ask what is then Niamh, in your opinion?
Cherie
23-11-2016, 10:47 AM
..I was just typing out something/my thoughts but then I thought no because that would also be contributing further as well, so I'm just going to leave it with your perspective Cherie...
You are entitled to your thoughts Ammi of course, just as I am to mine, as long as we have a civil discussion which we always do there are no issues IMO, have a great day!
Niamh.
23-11-2016, 10:54 AM
Well can I ask what is then Niamh, in your opinion?
In my opinion, most of the SDs section is incapable of debating a topic without insulting other posters, ganging up on people with their buddies before they even do anything wrong yet they refuse to recognise the fact that they themselves and their friends do exactly the same sort of things. I think all sides are guilty (not all posters but certainly people from eachside because all of a sudden there does seem to be an Us against them sort of a scenario playing out) And I think that nobody is willing to take a look at themselves and say, I may be contributing to this, they will just happily blame "the otherside" so until people can try to make some changes themselves then i can't see how things are ever going to change because at the end of the day we can only change our own behaviour not anyone elses.
It's a shame but SDs is not a nice place to be right now and it's a complete nightmare to try to moderate
Brillopad
23-11-2016, 10:58 AM
It really isn't
Debate/discussion on serious issues will always involve disagreement. If some are going to throw a tantrum when they feel the debate is not going the way they want it to go and want the debate shutdown - what is the point of any debate.
Debate is democratic. Let's not shut down democratic discussion.
kirklancaster
23-11-2016, 11:03 AM
In my opinion, most of the SDs section is incapable of debating a topic without insulting other posters, ganging up on people with their buddies before they even do anything wrong yet they refuse to recognise the fact that they themselves and their friends do exactly the same sort of things. I think all sides are guilty (not all posters but certainly people from eachside because all of a sudden there does seem to be an Us against them sort of a scenario playing out) And I think that nobody is willing to take a look at themselves and say, I may be contributing to this, they will just happily blame "the otherside" so until people can try to make some changes themselves then i can't see how things are ever going to change because at the end of the day we can only change our own behaviour not anyone elses.
It's a shame but SDs is not a nice place to be right now and it's a complete nightmare to try to moderate
Thank you for responding Niamh.
I agree with the overall sentiment of your post but I have my own opinion of just who are the main culprits, but although I am entitled to that opinion, I cannot publish it because of the Forum rules (and I would not anyway) but you can be assured that if I did, my opinion would split the forum in half at least.
And that is the nature of the beast - disagreeing with OPINION on a Debate Forum, but I still maintain, that it is when FACTS are denied and dismissed out of hand because those facts completely disprove an opinion and there is NO argument to them, that name calling begins and trouble starts.
In my opinion, most of the SDs section is incapable of debating a topic without insulting other posters, ganging up on people with their buddies before they even do anything wrong yet they refuse to recognise the fact that they themselves and their friends do exactly the same sort of things. I think all sides are guilty (not all posters but certainly people from eachside because all of a sudden there does seem to be an Us against them sort of a scenario playing out) And I think that nobody is willing to take a look at themselves and say, I may be contributing to this, they will just happily blame "the otherside" so until people can try to make some changes themselves then i can't see how things are ever going to change because at the end of the day we can only change our own behaviour not anyone elses.
It's a shame but SDs is not a nice place to be right now and it's a complete nightmare to try to moderate
...:lovedup:..yeah I pretty much agree in that there is so little responsibility taken for the self-participation in these things and how they often progress the way they do.../we can never control what other people do or say...all we can do is to look at ourselves and our own part and 'who said what first' becomes irrelevant and will only ever result in the same old, same old and the same old spoiling of any debate or discussion...
Niamh.
23-11-2016, 11:10 AM
Thank you for responding Niamh.
I agree with the overall sentiment of your post but I have my own opinion of just who are the main culprits, but although I am entitled to that opinion, I cannot publish it because of the Forum rules (and I would not anyway) but you can be assured that if I did, my opinion would split the forum in half at least.
And that is the nature of the beast - disagreeing with OPINION on a Debate Forum, but I still maintain, that it is when FACTS are denied and dismissed out of hand because those facts completely disprove an opinion and there is NO argument to them, that name calling begins and trouble starts.
No worries Kirk.
Look I'm sure you do and I'm sure I can probably guess who, in your opinion are the main culprits, I could also guess that all these culprits are on the "otherside" :laugh:
My only advice which will no doubt be ignored is to ignore posts that you think have crossed the line from debating the topic to insulting a poster and report it, there needs to be atleast two people involved to have an argument
kirklancaster
23-11-2016, 11:12 AM
...:lovedup:..yeah I pretty much agree in that there is so little responsibility taken for the self-participation in these things and how they often progress the way they do.../we can never control what other people do or say...all we can do is to look at ourselves and our own part and 'who said what first' becomes irrelevant and will only ever result in the same old, same old and the same old spoiling of any debate or discussion...
So the answer is:
a) Do not post any facts which disprove - often irrational, erroneous, and BIGOTED views.
b) Do not submit any posts which COUNTER certain members views - no matter how civilly such counter responses may be?
c) Let us all agree with the prevailing Liberal Left opinions on here - no matter how misguided, banal and ill informed they may be.
In short then Ammi - let all of us who have dissenting voices STOP posting on Serious Debates and leave all those who are like-minded upon here to it?
user104658
23-11-2016, 11:13 AM
In my opinion, most of the SDs section is incapable of debating a topic without insulting other posters, ganging up on people with their buddies before they even do anything wrong yet they refuse to recognise the fact that they themselves and their friends do exactly the same sort of things. I think all sides are guilty (not all posters but certainly people from eachside because all of a sudden there does seem to be an Us against them sort of a scenario playing out) And I think that nobody is willing to take a look at themselves and say, I may be contributing to this, they will just happily blame "the otherside" so until people can try to make some changes themselves then i can't see how things are ever going to change because at the end of the day we can only change our own behaviour not anyone elses.
It's a shame but SDs is not a nice place to be right now and it's a complete nightmare to try to moderate
IMO the major problem (and the one that leads to all of what you're saying here) is that there are very few people here who actually want any sort of academic discussion; i.e. a back and forth of "maybes" to lead to some sort of conclusion. Everybody starts with their conclusions already set in concrete, a whole bundle of suppositions, prejudices, and confirmation biases (confirmation bias makes up something like 75% of new thread topics in the first place; this one being a stellar example.)
These things are posted repeatedly simply for the "fun" of bashing the bricks together until one breaks or they both crumble.
In short: There are no debates nor discussions. And yes it is quite depressing, and boring.
kirklancaster
23-11-2016, 11:14 AM
No worries Kirk.
Look I'm sure you do and I'm sure I can probably guess who, in your opinion are the main culprits, I could also guess that all these culprits are on the "otherside" :laugh:
My only advice which will no doubt be ignored is to ignore posts that you think have crossed the line from debating the topic to insulting a poster and report it, there needs to be at least two people involved to have an argument
Thank you Niamh. You ARE right of course.
I am not bum-licking, but I have always found you to be fair and friendly, so I REALLY do respect your opinion.
So the answer is:
a) Do not post any facts which disprove - often irrational, erroneous, and BIGOTED views.
b) Do not submit any posts which COUNTER certain members views - no matter how civilly such counter responses may be?
c) Let us all agree with the prevailing Liberal Left opinions on here - no matter how misguided, banal and ill informed they may be.
In short then Ammi - let all of us who have dissenting voices STOP posting on Serious Debates and leave all those who are like-minded upon here to it?
..now then Kirk, my post didn't say anything you have said, that is your own interpretation and your own responsibility for that interpretation so that's absolutely fine also...it does go a little way though to show the vein of posts/the vein of replies etc in some compared to others of a personal agenda because basically agreeing with what Niamh said, I have a very different vein of response ...interesting...
IMO the major problem (and the one that leads to all of what you're saying here) is that there are very few people here who actually want any sort of academic discussion; i.e. a back and forth of "maybes" to lead to some sort of conclusion. Everybody starts with their conclusions already set in concrete, a whole bundle of suppositions, prejudices, and confirmation biases (confirmation bias makes up something like 75% of new thread topics in the first place; this one being a stellar example.)
These things are posted repeatedly simply for the "fun" of bashing the bricks together until one breaks or they both crumble.
In short: There are no debates nor discussions. And yes it is quite depressing, and boring.
..I can recall back in the day..:laugh:../how many discussions I found to actually make me think and readdress how I'd previously felt about something with my narrow personal experience..but yeah, ears as well as voices is the only communication that makes for any type of discussion which we can all benefit from and find interesting...
Niamh.
23-11-2016, 11:21 AM
IMO the major problem (and the one that leads to all of what you're saying here) is that there are very few people here who actually want any sort of academic discussion; i.e. a back and forth of "maybes" to lead to some sort of conclusion. Everybody starts with their conclusions already set in concrete, a whole bundle of suppositions, prejudices, and confirmation biases (confirmation bias makes up something like 75% of new thread topics in the first place; this one being a stellar example.)
These things are posted repeatedly simply for the "fun" of bashing the bricks together until one breaks or they both crumble.
In short: There are no debates nor discussions. And yes it is quite depressing, and boring.
There is a serious lack of "middleground" I think, it's either 100% one way or 100% the other
Thank you Niamh. You ARE right of course.
I am not bum-licking, but I have always found you to be fair and friendly, so I REALLY do respect your opinion.
Thanks Kirk. Look SDs has always gone through periods like this, i guess it's inevitable when peoples personalities clash and we get close to some people and very eh.....unclose to others :laugh: The current Political climate around the world is very divisive at the moment too and it seems to be if you're not on my side you're against me and all I stand for sort of thing? Me personally i feel like I'm somewhere in the middle with it all
Niamh.
23-11-2016, 11:24 AM
..I can recall back in the day..:laugh:../how many discussions I found to actually make me think and readdress how I'd previously felt about something with my narrow personal experience..but yeah, ears as well as voices is the only communication that makes for any type of discussion which we can all benefit from and find interesting...
Definitely, people should always be open to having their minds changed when they get into a debate or discussion. I always remember something Claudia said one time, that she changes her mind too easily in SDs and I was saying to her, that's a really good quality though and rare enough, it means you are really listening to people openly.
Brillopad
23-11-2016, 11:24 AM
Personally I am finding some comments/discussion at the moment rather patronising. I feel there should be room for both in-depth discussion and less in-depth discussion on subjects that interest many people. Almost sounds a little elitist. As long as people are not being over-the-top with their 'insults' I don't see any significant problems.
kirklancaster
23-11-2016, 11:29 AM
IMO the major problem (and the one that leads to all of what you're saying here) is that there are very few people here who actually want any sort of academic discussion; i.e. a back and forth of "maybes" to lead to some sort of conclusion. Everybody starts with their conclusions already set in concrete, a whole bundle of suppositions, prejudices, and confirmation biases (confirmation bias makes up something like 75% of new thread topics in the first place; this one being a stellar example.)
These things are posted repeatedly simply for the "fun" of bashing the bricks together until one breaks or they both crumble.
In short: There are no debates nor discussions. And yes it is quite depressing, and boring.
If a currently valid topic is posted but there is NO ensuing Debate or Discussion - then THAT is the fault of the members and NOT the topic subject posted.
But THAT is NOT how this is thread has played out and it is NO 'Stellar Example'.
There have been 33 posts ensuing from this Topic being posted, a lot of them intelligent and serious, and some light relief as well, BEFORE the "I'm Quitting" post by Kizzy - since which there have been a further 32 posts - how is that indicative of 'No Debate' or 'Discussion'?
There are PLENTY of members who DO want 'Academic Discussion' - THAT is beyond question.
Definitely, people should always be open to having their minds changed when they get into a debate or discussion. I always remember something Claudia said one time, that she changes her mind too easily in SDs and I was saying to her, that's a really good quality though and rare enough, it means you are really listening to people openly.
..yeah, it's always been the same for me as well...I sometimes like to think about my stance a bit first because it might have been something that I had given very little thought to before and felt particular passion for but it's listening to differing and opposing opinions that help with your own thoughts as well and considering all sides etc...those for me are the types of conversations/discussions/debates etc I would have in real life also...the ones where you're exhausted by them but in a great way.../having stimulated your thoughts and head..:love:...
user104658
23-11-2016, 11:59 AM
If a currently valid topic is posted but there is NO ensuing Debate or Discussion - then THAT is the fault of the members and NOT the topic subject posted.
But THAT is NOT how this is thread has played out and it is NO 'Stellar Example'.
There have been 33 posts ensuing from this Topic being posted, a lot of them intelligent and serious, and some light relief as well, BEFORE the "I'm Quitting" post by Kizzy - since which there have been a further 32 posts - how is that indicative of 'No Debate' or 'Discussion'?
There are PLENTY of members who DO want 'Academic Discussion' - THAT is beyond question.
The title is misleading and deliberately inflammatory and (from the content of the first post) it's obvious that the thread was posted because you read it and it confirmed your already-held beliefs about the situation... that is confirmation bias. The accuracy of the reporting doesn't actually matter as much as the reason for posting it. That's what I mean by the majority of the threads being posted in that mode; "I've been telling you this for ages and here is some more evidence of what I was already saying!". There are a tonne of these threads. As for the discussion that follows? Nothing new to see. Same people reiterating the same opinions they've had on every other thread with a vaguely similar topic (there are dozens). Not one vague attempt at altering or expanding opinions based on the discussion. There is no debate.
Or rather, the threads operate more like political Trump vs Clinton, Labour vs Tory, "debates" rather than academic debates - i.e. people seem to believe that the point of the debate is simply to present their own argument, which they believe 100% and unshakably, in such a way that "the audience" will be swayed by their immense proof and skillful oratory. Except that there is no audience, and as such, it's a complete waste of time. Anyone who is on here "debating" who feels that they have no capacity for altering their opinion in any way is wasting their time, and that currently - quite simply - applies to the majority of threads.
It DOES make me sad because I honestly don't think it has always been so static and stale. Even to use us an example; in our early days there were CONSTANT arguments that would stem from simply misunderstanding each other completely, something that I don't think has happened for a long time. There used to be plenty of compromise and thoughtfulness alongside the bickering name-calling... those things are not the problem. It's how self-assured everyone has become, and how quickly threads descend into back-patting and circlejerking.
Cherie
23-11-2016, 12:16 PM
The title is misleading and deliberately inflammatory and (from the content of the first post) it's obvious that the thread was posted because you read it and it confirmed your already-held beliefs about the situation... that is confirmation bias. The accuracy of the reporting doesn't actually matter as much as the reason for posting it. That's what I mean by the majority of the threads being posted in that mode; "I've been telling you this for ages and here is some more evidence of what I was already saying!". There are a tonne of these threads. As for the discussion that follows? Nothing new to see. Same people reiterating the same opinions they've had on every other thread with a vaguely similar topic (there are dozens). Not one vague attempt at altering or expanding opinions based on the discussion. There is no debate.
Or rather, the threads operate more like political Trump vs Clinton, Labour vs Tory, "debates" rather than academic debates - i.e. people seem to believe that the point of the debate is simply to present their own argument, which they believe 100% and unshakably, in such a way that "the audience" will be swayed by their immense proof and skillful oratory. Except that there is no audience, and as such, it's a complete waste of time. Anyone who is on here "debating" who feels that they have no capacity for altering their opinion in any way is wasting their time, and that currently - quite simply - applies to the majority of threads.
It DOES make me sad because I honestly don't think it has always been so static and stale. Even to use us an example; in our early days there were CONSTANT arguments that would stem from simply misunderstanding each other completely, something that I don't think has happened for a long time. There used to be plenty of compromise and thoughtfulness alongside the bickering name-calling... those things are not the problem. It's how self-assured everyone has become, and how quickly threads descend into back-patting and circlejerking.
Back patting and circle jerking :joker: not seen too much on this thread
jennyjuniper
23-11-2016, 02:55 PM
Maybe we should focus on the idiots who carried out the arson attack in return for asylum :umm2:: and condemn them rather than rushing to gloss over it?
Well said Cherie. By the way, why are men from Algeria and Morocco there? I thought those centres were only from people escaping from war torn regions?
jennyjuniper
23-11-2016, 03:01 PM
If the dumb b...... who set fire to the place found out that gummibears are made from pig skins, who knows what they'll do.
jennyjuniper
23-11-2016, 03:02 PM
If those dumbasses who set fire to the place knew that gummibears are made from pig skins, who knows what they would do?
The title is misleading and deliberately inflammatory and (from the content of the first post) it's obvious that the thread was posted because you read it and it confirmed your already-held beliefs about the situation... that is confirmation bias. The accuracy of the reporting doesn't actually matter as much as the reason for posting it. That's what I mean by the majority of the threads being posted in that mode; "I've been telling you this for ages and here is some more evidence of what I was already saying!". There are a tonne of these threads. As for the discussion that follows? Nothing new to see. Same people reiterating the same opinions they've had on every other thread with a vaguely similar topic (there are dozens). Not one vague attempt at altering or expanding opinions based on the discussion. There is no debate.
Or rather, the threads operate more like political Trump vs Clinton, Labour vs Tory, "debates" rather than academic debates - i.e. people seem to believe that the point of the debate is simply to present their own argument, which they believe 100% and unshakably, in such a way that "the audience" will be swayed by their immense proof and skillful oratory. Except that there is no audience, and as such, it's a complete waste of time. Anyone who is on here "debating" who feels that they have no capacity for altering their opinion in any way is wasting their time, and that currently - quite simply - applies to the majority of threads.
It DOES make me sad because I honestly don't think it has always been so static and stale. Even to use us an example; in our early days there were CONSTANT arguments that would stem from simply misunderstanding each other completely, something that I don't think has happened for a long time. There used to be plenty of compromise and thoughtfulness alongside the bickering name-calling... those things are not the problem. It's how self-assured everyone has become, and how quickly threads descend into back-patting and circlejerking.
This is IT in a nutshell, IMO.
I used to love reading in here although I just don't have the inclination to post very often so maybe my opinion won't be welcome, but.... now it's often 'here's another incident that proves my opinion is the correct one'. Is there really any point wanting a 'debate' about 2 bad eggs in an immigrant camp carrying out some criminal activity? All those similar stories have been 'debated' with nothing new being said...and anyone could search the news and find stories of bad eggs carrying out criminal activity who are not immigrants in immigrant camps....lets have all those stories....:hee:
Is it really surprising or 'debate worthy' anyway when people thrown together in a camp, far from home, with growing tensions and uncertainty a way of life for them commit more crime than is normal than they would if living in a settled and familiar society? :shrug:
Niamh.
23-11-2016, 03:20 PM
This is IT in a nutshell, IMO.
I used to love reading in here although I just don't have the inclination to post very often so maybe my opinion won't be welcome, but.... now it's often 'here's another incident that proves my opinion is the correct one'. Is there really any point wanting a 'debate' about 2 bad eggs in an immigrant camp carrying out some criminal activity? All those similar stories have been 'debated' with nothing new being said...and anyone could search the news and find stories of bad eggs carrying out criminal activity who are not immigrants in immigrant camps....lets have all those stories....:hee:
Is it really surprising or newsworthy anyway when people thrown together in a camp, far from home, with growing tensions and uncertainty a way of life for them commit more crime than is normal than they would if living in a settled and familiar society? :shrug:
I hope you decide to start posting more again Jet, i think we all need to try and make an effort to start other threads in Serious debates besides these type of ones, they always end up with same arguments going round in circles
Cherie
23-11-2016, 03:28 PM
I hope you decide to start posting more again Jet, i think we all need to try and make an effort to start other threads in Serious debates besides these type of ones, they always end up with same arguments going round in circles
That's a good start, maybe we could see a few people actually starting threads instead of complaining about what others choose to post about.
Niamh.
23-11-2016, 03:29 PM
That's a good start, maybe we could see a few people actually starting threads instead of complaining about what others choose to post about.
Guilty as charged :fan: I will try to rise to the challenge though
Cherie
23-11-2016, 03:32 PM
Guilty as charged :fan: I will try to rise to the challenge though
:fan:
I hope you decide to start posting more again Jet, i think we all need to try and make an effort to start other threads in Serious debates besides these type of ones, they always end up with same arguments going round in circles
Thanks Niamh. I just like to read here really and miss the fantastic debates - this used to be my first port of call when an interesting news story came up to read what you all had to say, and I liked how you can get to 'know' the posters from their posting styles and opinions....
Many a time I've thought....I wonder what Niamh, or Joey, or Ammi, or Kirk etc have to say about that...logging in to TIBB :hehe:
Niamh.
23-11-2016, 03:43 PM
Thanks Niamh. I just like to read here really and miss the fantastic debates - this used to be my first port of call when an interesting news story came up to read what you all had to say, and I liked how you can get to 'know' the posters from their posting styles and opinions....
Many a time I've thought....I wonder what Niamh, or Joey, or Ammi, or Kirk etc have to say about that...logging in to TIBB :hehe:
:laugh: aww
Cherie
23-11-2016, 04:18 PM
Thanks Niamh. I just like to read here really and miss the fantastic debates - this used to be my first port of call when an interesting news story came up to read what you all had to say, and I liked how you can get to 'know' the posters from their posting styles and opinions....
Many a time I've thought....I wonder what Niamh, or Joey, or Ammi, or Kirk etc have to say about that...logging in to TIBB :hehe:
So what's changed? As they all still post regularly :shrug:
user104658
23-11-2016, 04:39 PM
So what's changed? As they all still post regularly :shrug:
The section has been more or less swallowed by the same two or three topics, and moreso, by the bad atmosphere that surrounds those topics.
Cherie
23-11-2016, 04:45 PM
The section has been more or less swallowed by the same two or three topics, and moreso, by the bad atmosphere that surrounds those topics.
So you know what to do, get posting :D:
Cherie
23-11-2016, 04:55 PM
Also it seems people are attracted to this type of thread 4 pages long compared to a thread on sperm donors where various questions have been posed and it's struggling for posts, so if people want this type of thread to die out they need to proactively post elsewhere :idc:
Niamh.
23-11-2016, 05:05 PM
Also it seems people are attracted to this type of thread 4 pages long compared to a thread on sperm donors where various questions have been posed and it's struggling for posts, so if people want this type of thread to die out they need to proactively post elsewhere :idc:
tbf 2 and a half of those pages are talking about the problems we're having in SDs atm :laugh:
iloveaisleyne
23-11-2016, 05:08 PM
And who's footing the bill for it to be rebuilt? Taxpayers?
If they don't appreciate asylum maybe they shouldn't have it.
Cherie
23-11-2016, 05:18 PM
tbf 2 and a half of those pages are talking about the problems we're having in SDs atm :laugh:
Stop talking sense Niamh :hmph:
Niamh.
23-11-2016, 05:19 PM
Stop talking sense Niamh :hmph:
:hehe:
kirklancaster
23-11-2016, 05:24 PM
The section has been more or less swallowed by the same two or three topics, and moreso, by the bad atmosphere that surrounds those topics.
Now we are back to square one. Why is there a bad atmosphere for posting a NEWS article which is reporting the TRUTH about an incident which concerns IMMIGRATION - which is possibly one of the MAJOR areas of public concern in MOST countries around the world?
There is NO 'Bad Atmosphere' intrinsic to the article - it is reportage - the 'Bad Atmosphere' is what has been created by SOME members reaction TO the article.
And just HOW do we to remedy THAT?
Obviously, the answer most popular with some members, would be to STOP posting such articles.
So perhaps two or three of you should get together and draw up a list of just WHICH topics are OK for the rest of us to post?
Northern Monkey
23-11-2016, 05:26 PM
It does get pretty bad on here sometimes with the opposing views on emotive subjects.People being called 'bigot,racist,xenophobic,looney left' etc.
I do think that the mainstream media cover this stuff up alot though.Specially the BBC.Everyone gets this rose tinted view of 'these poor migrants' and sees hardly any of the bad stuff that happens in these countries.Especially Germany lately.It's important to see this stuff.Islam as an ideology is not compatible with western society and the more radical form even more so.Many of these people have to put aside many of their values and beliefs to fit in and many aren't willing to.
The section has been more or less swallowed by the same two or three topics, and moreso, by the bad atmosphere that surrounds those topics.
This ^^^
Now we are back to square one. Why is there a bad atmosphere for posting a NEWS article which is reporting the TRUTH about an incident which concerns IMMIGRATION - which is possibly one of the MAJOR areas of public concern in MOST countries around the world?
There is NO 'Bad Atmosphere' intrinsic to the article - it is reportage - the 'Bad Atmosphere' is what has been created by SOME members reaction TO the article.
And just HOW do we to remedy THAT?
Obviously, the answer most popular with some members, would be to STOP posting such articles.
So perhaps two or three of you should get together and draw up a list of just WHICH topics are OK for the rest of us to post?
How about a separate thread dedicated to topics and news items on illegal immigrant issues for those interested specifically in that subject? Then there won't be lots of different threads all on variations of the same thing? Would that work? :shrug:
Brillopad
23-11-2016, 05:48 PM
The section has been more or less swallowed by the same two or three topics, and moreso, by the bad atmosphere that surrounds those topics.
These topics are on predominant issues currently affecting Britain and many other countries so hardly surprising people want to talk about it.
By the length of these threads many are interested, so it is not for others to try it dictate what subjects should/should not be discussed. As someone previously mentioned there is nothing stopping anyone from creating other threads.
Northern Monkey
23-11-2016, 06:03 PM
Why doesn't anyone who is not interested just not click and read threads on this topic?I often don't read every thread.
Cherie
23-11-2016, 06:10 PM
Why doesn't anyone who is not interested just not click and read threads on this topic?I often don't read every thread.
I don't know :joker:
Northern Monkey
23-11-2016, 06:13 PM
I don't know :joker:
:joker:
It's not like it's in the rules that you must read and comment on every topic:shrug: (or is it?I haven't actually read the rules:laugh:)
Cherie
23-11-2016, 06:26 PM
:joker:
It's not like it's in the rules that you must read and comment on every topic:shrug: (or is it?I haven't actually read the rules:laugh:)
Rule 1 of SD participation
You will read, digest and comment on every thread that involves immigration, Isis and muslims
End of rules
In my opinion, most of the SDs section is incapable of debating a topic without insulting other posters, ganging up on people with their buddies before they even do anything wrong yet they refuse to recognise the fact that they themselves and their friends do exactly the same sort of things. I think all sides are guilty (not all posters but certainly people from eachside because all of a sudden there does seem to be an Us against them sort of a scenario playing out) And I think that nobody is willing to take a look at themselves and say, I may be contributing to this, they will just happily blame "the otherside" so until people can try to make some changes themselves then i can't see how things are ever going to change because at the end of the day we can only change our own behaviour not anyone elses.
It's a shame but SDs is not a nice place to be right now and it's a complete nightmare to try to moderate
:clap1: x 1000
A lot of these pettier arguments can stop by simply not being reciprocal to baiting attacks. The ignore list is there for a reason if you find these posts triggering. I personally don't have the emotional collateral available to get involved in all the personal attacks lobbied in this section... so usually I wait until about page 4-5 when everyone has wore themselves down some to contribute :laugh:... also if people are leaving threads with these anxious thoughts constantly in their mind, about who is talking about who, who is writing about who, when the next attack will be... then that is a very good sign that one's focus on these matters has become unhealthy... and the ignore function is a good course of action if particular personality traits, verbiage or use of incendiary is a trigger for you.
I speak from vast experience on this topic.
I hope you decide to start posting more again Jet, i think we all need to try and make an effort to start other threads in Serious debates besides these type of ones, they always end up with same arguments going round in circles
Niamh, I have tried this... it's hard to get any real conversation going when SD appears limited to the same few people whose metal are better tested in other topics. The rest of the forum doesn't appear to be the longform poster type (though I still think they should participate as diverse views== better discussion imo) I'm also at a disadvantage because I'm out of country... so can't really bring any sort of local perspective to the table. My topics are limited to US affairs... often our politics that gets the most attention. Sad to say.
As far as debating... this section might be overly due then for a rename to serious discussions or something, because debate is a highly competitive verb... it's first priority is not to be a mutual discussion and having an open mind :laugh:, though we should strive for it... it's literally about constructing the best arguments/rebuttals in arguments... at least that's how I sometimes treat it... because the word debate, implies a competitive theme. Which is a bit out of place compared to the rest of the forum which is more relaxed... actually.
Debate
noun
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints:
a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.
4. Archaic. strife; contention. (Is this really archaic? :laugh:)
Moreover, most arguments in the controversial topics are doomed to stalemate from the beginning because they based on emotional/moral grounds... that is, they are heavily influenced by one's personal or moral background, not something that can be torn apart in logic... something you can't separate from the personal either, so often leads to mutual bickering which leads to personal attacks and a stalemate, because convincing someone their moral barometer is broken is a lot harder (read: impossible) than just simply debating something matter of factly and having a discussion there... it's also easy to have an upper hand in the morality dept (superficially speaking) but often means those points go on forever and ever... and never leaves room for another interpretation or other POVs to be heard... some have not been willing to leave those moral arguments to a previous thread... they feel they need to make it a point thread to thread. I won't name names because I feel like we're all a little guilty of this.
Why doesn't anyone who is not interested just not click and read threads on this topic?I often don't read every thread.
I do this too
Northern Monkey
23-11-2016, 06:53 PM
:clap1: x 1000
A lot of these pettier arguments can stop by simply not being reciprocal to baiting attacks. The ignore list is there for a reason if you find these posts triggering. I personally don't have the emotional collateral available to get involved in all the personal attacks lobbied in this section... so usually I wait until about page 4-5 when everyone has wore themselves down some to contribute :laugh:... also if people are leaving threads with these anxious thoughts constantly in their mind, about who is talking about who, who is writing about who, when the next attack will be... then that is a very good sign that one's focus on these matters has become unhealthy... and the ignore function is a good course of action if particular personality traits, verbiage or use of incendiary is a trigger for you.
I speak from vast experience on this topic.
Niamh, I have tried this... it's hard to get any real conversation going when SD appears limited to the same few people whose metal are better tested in other topics. The rest of the forum doesn't appear to be the longform poster type (though I still think they should participate as diverse views== better discussion imo) I'm also at a disadvantage because I'm out of country... so can't really bring any sort of local perspective to the table. My topics are limited to US affairs... often our politics that gets the most attention. Sad to say.
As far as debating... this section might be overly due then for a rename to serious discussions or something, because debate is a highly competitive verb... it's first priority is not to be a mutual discussion and having an open mind :laugh:, though we should strive for it... it's literally about constructing the best arguments/rebuttals in arguments... at least that's how I sometimes treat it... because the word debate, implies a competitive theme. Which is a bit out of place compared to the rest of the forum which is more relaxed... actually.
Debate
noun
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints:
a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.
4. Archaic. strife; contention. (Is this really archaic? :laugh:)
Moreover, most arguments in the controversial topics are doomed to stalemate from the beginning because they based on emotional/moral grounds... that is, they are heavily influenced by one's personal or moral background, not something that can be torn apart in logic... something you can't separate from the personal either, so often leads to mutual bickering which leads to personal attacks and a stalemate, because convincing someone their moral barometer is broken is a lot harder (read: impossible) than just simply debating something matter of factly and having a discussion there... it's also easy to have an upper hand in the morality dept (superficially speaking) but often means those points go on forever and ever... and never leaves room for another interpretation or other POVs to be heard... some have not been willing to leave those moral arguments to a previous thread... they feel they need to make it a point thread to thread. I won't name names because I feel like we're all a little guilty of this.
I think i fall into the not the longform poster type.When i do get chance to read your posts i very much enjoy them.They are always interesting and i learn something from them.
However i'm not a fast reader.I don't struggle to read,i'm just not the quickest.Alot of times if i see more than two paragraphs i'll 'leave it til later' only sometimes later never comes:laugh:
Withano
23-11-2016, 08:00 PM
Why doesn't anyone who is not interested just not click and read threads on this topic?I often don't read every thread.
Im not sure if this applies to many others.. But I usually open threads that I'm not interested in incase the OP is thought provoking (dont judge a book by its cover etc) if I still have no interest in the topic, im still sometimes interested in peoples interpretations of the topic. Many are thought-provoking, many more are borderline-insane.
ive stayed away from this debate a bit because of how ridiculous the sources were. credible sources were reporting news, the source used in the OP was reporting their hate.
I therefore dont believe that many posts are reflective of the actual news story and instead only reflect one journalists spun web of hatred. Thats just not an interesting read really for me.
Cherie
23-11-2016, 08:20 PM
:clap1: x 1000
A lot of these pettier arguments can stop by simply not being reciprocal to baiting attacks. The ignore list is there for a reason if you find these posts triggering. I personally don't have the emotional collateral available to get involved in all the personal attacks lobbied in this section... so usually I wait until about page 4-5 when everyone has wore themselves down some to contribute :laugh:... also if people are leaving threads with these anxious thoughts constantly in their mind, about who is talking about who, who is writing about who, when the next attack will be... then that is a very good sign that one's focus on these matters has become unhealthy... and the ignore function is a good course of action if particular personality traits, verbiage or use of incendiary is a trigger for you.
I speak from vast experience on this topic.
Niamh, I have tried this... it's hard to get any real conversation going when SD appears limited to the same few people whose metal are better tested in other topics. The rest of the forum doesn't appear to be the longform poster type (though I still think they should participate as diverse views== better discussion imo) I'm also at a disadvantage because I'm out of country... so can't really bring any sort of local perspective to the table. My topics are limited to US affairs... often our politics that gets the most attention. Sad to say.
As far as debating... this section might be overly due then for a rename to serious discussions or something, because debate is a highly competitive verb... it's first priority is not to be a mutual discussion and having an open mind :laugh:, though we should strive for it... it's literally about constructing the best arguments/rebuttals in arguments... at least that's how I sometimes treat it... because the word debate, implies a competitive theme. Which is a bit out of place compared to the rest of the forum which is more relaxed... actually.
Debate
noun
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints:
a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.
4. Archaic. strife; contention. (Is this really archaic? :laugh:)
Moreover, most arguments in the controversial topics are doomed to stalemate from the beginning because they based on emotional/moral grounds... that is, they are heavily influenced by one's personal or moral background, not something that can be torn apart in logic... something you can't separate from the personal either, so often leads to mutual bickering which leads to personal attacks and a stalemate, because convincing someone their moral barometer is broken is a lot harder (read: impossible) than just simply debating something matter of factly and having a discussion there... it's also easy to have an upper hand in the morality dept (superficially speaking) but often means those points go on forever and ever... and never leaves room for another interpretation or other POVs to be heard... some have not been willing to leave those moral arguments to a previous thread... they feel they need to make it a point thread to thread. I won't name names because I feel like we're all a little guilty of this.
That's not quite true, the naming of chat threads can get quite heated :fan:
That's not quite true, the naming of chat threads can get quite heated :fan:
Yeah also forgot when BB is on :laugh:
Kizzy
24-11-2016, 07:42 AM
What exactly would James/Josy be sorting out? the threads are usually in the main reflections of what is dominating the news at any given time, anyone can post a thread as long as it is within the rules of the forum I don't see the issue. You don't have to read or react to every thread Kiz
The sheer number of the right wing propaganda threads, I don't respond to all of them ...doesn't mean they aren't there :/
They are rather subtle I'll give you that.
Niamh.
24-11-2016, 10:14 AM
Why doesn't anyone who is not interested just not click and read threads on this topic?I often don't read every thread.
I have no choice but to read them all what with the constant reports :bawling:
:clap1: x 1000
A lot of these pettier arguments can stop by simply not being reciprocal to baiting attacks. The ignore list is there for a reason if you find these posts triggering. I personally don't have the emotional collateral available to get involved in all the personal attacks lobbied in this section... so usually I wait until about page 4-5 when everyone has wore themselves down some to contribute :laugh:... also if people are leaving threads with these anxious thoughts constantly in their mind, about who is talking about who, who is writing about who, when the next attack will be... then that is a very good sign that one's focus on these matters has become unhealthy... and the ignore function is a good course of action if particular personality traits, verbiage or use of incendiary is a trigger for you.
I speak from vast experience on this topic.
Niamh, I have tried this... it's hard to get any real conversation going when SD appears limited to the same few people whose metal are better tested in other topics. The rest of the forum doesn't appear to be the longform poster type (though I still think they should participate as diverse views== better discussion imo) I'm also at a disadvantage because I'm out of country... so can't really bring any sort of local perspective to the table. My topics are limited to US affairs... often our politics that gets the most attention. Sad to say.
As far as debating... this section might be overly due then for a rename to serious discussions or something, because debate is a highly competitive verb... it's first priority is not to be a mutual discussion and having an open mind :laugh:, though we should strive for it... it's literally about constructing the best arguments/rebuttals in arguments... at least that's how I sometimes treat it... because the word debate, implies a competitive theme. Which is a bit out of place compared to the rest of the forum which is more relaxed... actually.
Debate
noun
1. a discussion, as of a public question in an assembly, involving opposing viewpoints:
a debate in the Senate on farm price supports.
2. a formal contest in which the affirmative and negative sides of a proposition are advocated by opposing speakers.
3. deliberation; consideration.
4. Archaic. strife; contention. (Is this really archaic? :laugh:)
Moreover, most arguments in the controversial topics are doomed to stalemate from the beginning because they based on emotional/moral grounds... that is, they are heavily influenced by one's personal or moral background, not something that can be torn apart in logic... something you can't separate from the personal either, so often leads to mutual bickering which leads to personal attacks and a stalemate, because convincing someone their moral barometer is broken is a lot harder (read: impossible) than just simply debating something matter of factly and having a discussion there... it's also easy to have an upper hand in the morality dept (superficially speaking) but often means those points go on forever and ever... and never leaves room for another interpretation or other POVs to be heard... some have not been willing to leave those moral arguments to a previous thread... they feel they need to make it a point thread to thread. I won't name names because I feel like we're all a little guilty of this.
Great post as per usual Maru, we're singing from the same hymn sheet. I would really like to get some of the posters who tend to stick to C&Gs perspective on things actually but I think they're afraid to set foot into the darkside :laugh:
kirklancaster
24-11-2016, 10:24 AM
The sheer number of the right wing propaganda threads, I don't respond to all of them ...doesn't mean they aren't there :/
They are rather subtle I'll give you that.
There have been far more Liberal Left dominated propaganda threads on here than 'Right Wing' ones, and Cherie may verify this for herself, but I do not think that she made any reference or even allusion to any Right Wing propaganda threads in her post - let alone 'subtle ones', so where that came from is a total mystery Kizzy. :shrug:
Northern Monkey
24-11-2016, 10:30 AM
I have no choice but to read them all what with the constant reports :bawling:Oh yeah:laugh:I didn't mean you.You're the boss.And a grand job you do too keeping us all in line:laugh:
There must be some perks of the job though?Pension?Holiday pay?
Cherie
24-11-2016, 10:31 AM
The sheer number of the right wing propaganda threads, I don't respond to all of them ...doesn't mean they aren't there :/
They are rather subtle I'll give you that.
It doesn't really matter what leaning if any the thread has as long as it fits within forum rules, I'm not that interested in space travel but Monkey can post them if he must :idc:
Cherie
24-11-2016, 10:31 AM
Oh yeah:laugh:I didn't mean you.You're the boss.And a grand job you do too keeping us all in line:laugh:
There must be some perks of the job though?Pension?Holiday pay?
She gets paid by her boss to moderate a BB forum, cushy Niamh, cushy :fan:
Northern Monkey
24-11-2016, 10:33 AM
It doesn't really matter what leaning if any the thread has as long as it fits within forum rules, I'm not that interested in space travel but Monkey can post them if he must :idc:
Well that's very nice of you.Thanks for your blessing:thumbs:
I'll post some more for you if you want?:laugh:
Niamh.
24-11-2016, 10:33 AM
Oh yeah:laugh:I didn't mean you.You're the boss.And a grand job you do too keeping us all in line:laugh:
There must be some perks of the job though?Pension?Holiday pay?
Company car and all :laugh:
Cherie
24-11-2016, 10:34 AM
Well that's very nice of you.Thanks for your blessing:thumbs:
I'll post some more for you if you want?:laugh:
:laugh: I don't mind I'm picky about what I read :hee:
kirklancaster
24-11-2016, 11:18 AM
Company car and all :laugh:
:laugh: You deserve it - In my opinion. And I ain't joking. :hee:
I am so glad to see this is being discussed .I don't post much as I am not from the UK nor am I from the UK.
Debates are always heated by nature..but debating is not what is happening here.
As I am not from the Uk it has always being interesting for me to read opinions from either side of the debate.
Whilst tempers may have got flared at times...what is happening now is immature .
I have seen posts saying in SD that I have more friends on here than you ..therefore I am right,in other words my gang is bigger than your gang.
Other posts that stop debate from taking place are those that say if you agree with me you are intelligent ...heck I have even seen one where a FM applauded another for agreeing with with their post and told them they were too intelligent to be on TIBB...IMO implying if you didn't agree with them you are dumb.
The one thing that has irked me the most is I have seen very intelligent ,well spoken younger members who had been really willing to engage in debate and to accept views of others to be laughed at and told that they didn't know what they were talking about because they weren't alive at the time...those who done that went on to applaud their mates who didn't discuss anything but pot a Ytube vid.
Sorry mods (who IMO have the patients of saints)..I think there should be a main Thread for Trump ans another for Muslims/migrants
Niamh.
24-11-2016, 11:37 AM
I am so glad to see this is being discussed .I don't post much as I am not from the UK nor am I from the UK.
Debates are always heated by nature..but debating is not what is happening here.
As I am not from the Uk it has always being interesting for me to read opinions from either side of the debate.
Whilst tempers may have got flared at times...what is happening now is immature .
I have seen posts saying in SD that I have more friends on here than you ..therefore I am right,in other words my gang is bigger than your gang.
Other posts that stop debate from taking place are those that say if you agree with me you are intelligent ...heck I have even seen one where a FM applauded another for agreeing with with their post and told them they were too intelligent to be on TIBB...IMO implying if you didn't agree with them you are dumb.
The one thing that has irked me the most is I have seen very intelligent ,well spoken younger members who had been really willing to engage in debate and to accept views of others to be laughed at and told that they didn't know what they were talking about because they weren't alive at the time...those who done that went on to applaud their mates who didn't discuss anything but pot a Ytube vid.
Sorry mods (who IMO have the patients of saints)..I think there should be a main Thread for Trump ans another for Muslims/migrants
Good to see you back Lime and thanks for your input. Am I right in thinking you live in Ireland but are South African? I always enjoy your posts and I hope we can sort this out so serious debates can be a good place to post again :love:
Good to see you back Lime and thanks for your input. Am I right in thinking you live in Ireland but are South African? I always enjoy your posts and I hope we can sort this out so serious debates can be a good place to post again :love:
Thanks Niamh
yes you are right but I have given up my SA passport and now An Irish citizen since 2013 :cheer2::cheer2:...Love this country
Yeah I hope it gets sorted because I used to really enjoy reading the posts in here
Niamh.
24-11-2016, 11:54 AM
Thanks Niamh
yes you are right but I have given up my SA passport and now An Irish citizen since 2013 :cheer2::cheer2:...Love this country
Yeah I hope it gets sorted because I used to really enjoy reading the posts in here
Oh congrats :love:
and yeah me too, maybe when/if this Trump stuff dies down, eh?
Sometime about 2020 then :unsure:
kirklancaster
24-11-2016, 01:47 PM
Sometime about 2020 then :unsure:
:laugh: Or as Johnny Mathis puts it; "Until The 12th Of Never" :hee:
Niamh.
24-11-2016, 01:50 PM
Sometime about 2020 then :unsure:
:laugh:
Scarlett.
24-11-2016, 05:42 PM
In my opinion, news and serious debates need to be seperated again, the 'debates' on here are usually just about the news now, where as we used to have a much more varied set of topics. Serious debates and news are two completely different things, and mashing them together is messy.
kirklancaster
24-11-2016, 05:56 PM
In my opinion, news and serious debates need to be seperated again, the 'debates' on here are usually just about the news now, where as we used to have a much more varied set of topics. Serious debates and news are two completely different things, and mashing them together is messy.
I agree with you Chewy. I think that might actually be better all round.
Crimson Dynamo
24-11-2016, 11:25 PM
I remember when SD was all fields and we all debated in the morning and had tea and scones in the afternoon
user104658
25-11-2016, 12:38 AM
I remember when SD was all fields and we all debated in the morning and had tea and scones in the afternoon
Err not even sure who you are tbh, this section is more for established members. Maybe try Chat & Games?
kirklancaster
25-11-2016, 03:54 AM
I remember when SD was all fields and we all debated in the morning and had tea and scones in the afternoon
:laugh: It's never been like that for me. Welcome back LT. I tried to pm you but could not.
arista
25-11-2016, 04:00 AM
I remember when SD was all fields and we all debated in the morning and had tea and scones in the afternoon
Yes now we have the Left Wingers
and Re Moaners
setting up their Tents.
Nice to see LT return
Niamh.
25-11-2016, 09:56 AM
I remember when SD was all fields and we all debated in the morning and had tea and scones in the afternoon
It was certainly better than it is now
Kizzy
25-11-2016, 09:59 AM
It was certainly better than it is now
baiting.... :idc:
Crimson Dynamo
25-11-2016, 10:11 AM
It was certainly better than it is now
Ach away, everyone always remembers things as better, it is what it is but it depends on what people think it should be?
If people think it should be all posts of 5 inches long with everyone saying "yes that is an excellent post but if I may, can I pick up on one point you brilliantly made and offer a counter idea if I may be so bold" then they may be dissapointed.
Its just us lot discussing things that hit the headlines and tomorrow are gone. Its not like its Question Time or owt. :joker:
"I remember when we all debated and had a laugh and left our doors open and the Police were much taller.."
my arse :hehe:
Niamh.
25-11-2016, 10:15 AM
Ach away, everyone always remembers things as better, it is what it is but it depends on what people think it should be?
If people think it should be all posts of 5 inches long with everyone saying "yes that is an excellent post but if I may, can I pick up on one point you brilliantly made and offer a counter idea if I may be so bold" then they may be dissapointed.
Its just us lot discussing things that hit the headlines and tomorrow are gone. Its not like its Question Time or owt. :joker:
"I remember when we all debated and had a laugh and left our doors open and the Police were much taller.."
my arse :hehe:
Well being a moderator I think I have a better perspective of how bloody annoying it is now to moderate SDs as opposed to last year for example.
I'm not saying people should all agree with eachother either, that's totally taking what i said and making up your own conclusion. People should be able to talk about the actual subjects without insulting the person they're debating with though...like grown ups
Crimson Dynamo
25-11-2016, 10:16 AM
Well being a moderator I think I have a better perspective of how bloody annoying it is now to moderate SDs as opposed to last year for example.
I'm not saying people should all agree with eachother either, that's totally taking what i said and making up your own conclusion. People should be able to talk about the actual subjects without insulting the person they're debating with though...like grown ups
Do you mean that you are just getting more "reports"
(I would disable it in SD tbh)
Niamh.
25-11-2016, 10:18 AM
Do you mean that you are just getting more "reports"
(I would disable it in SD tbh)
why? SDs isn't exempt from the rules of the forum
Crimson Dynamo
25-11-2016, 10:25 AM
with ref to Kizzy and her assertion that the far right are taking over SD below are the last 5 pages of threads and who made them.
Arista: 56
Maru: 15
Northern MOnkey: 12
Hog: 13
LibertyforEva: 12
Cherie: 8
Kirk: 8
The Truth: 8
LT: 7
Johnny: 6
Kizzy: 6
My advice to the others (not you neem) who moan about SD
Make some threads
Niamh.
25-11-2016, 10:29 AM
with ref to Kizzy and her assertion that the far right are taking over SD below are the last 5 pages of threads and who made them.
Arista: 56
Maru: 15
Northern MOnkey: 12
Hog: 13
LibertyforEva: 12
Cherie: 8
Kirk: 8
The Truth: 8
LT: 7
Johnny: 6
Kizzy: 6
My advice to the others (not you neem) who moan about SD
Make some threads
Yeah, this is good advice, I agree
jaxie
25-11-2016, 10:31 AM
It was certainly better than it is now
Can I have a scone?
Kizzy
25-11-2016, 10:31 AM
Yeah, this is good advice, I agree
Are you going to continue to attempt to draw me out on this issue Niamh?... It's sounding a bit witch hunty now.
You may not have noticed but while you were bleating about me to anyone who'll listen, I made some threads.....
jaxie
25-11-2016, 10:31 AM
baiting.... :idc:
Takes one to know one :shrug:
Niamh.
25-11-2016, 10:34 AM
Are you going to continue to attempt to draw me out on this issue Niamh?... It's sounding a bit witch hunty now.
You may not have noticed but while you were bleating about me to anyone who'll listen, I made some threads.....
About you? What do you mean, I'm talking about the whole of SDs not any person in particular
jaxie
25-11-2016, 10:35 AM
Are you going to continue to attempt to draw me out on this issue Niamh?... It's sounding a bit witch hunty now.
You may not have noticed but while you were bleating about me to anyone who'll listen, I made some threads.....
This is bit nasty and uncalled for. Naimh is a good and fair mod. I've never seen her treat anyone unfairly.
Niamh.
25-11-2016, 10:39 AM
You really have taken me up wrongly Kizzy if you think that any of my posts were aimed at you specifically because they really weren't
jaxie
25-11-2016, 10:39 AM
Well being a moderator I think I have a better perspective of how bloody annoying it is now to moderate SDs as opposed to last year for example.
I'm not saying people should all agree with eachother either, that's totally taking what i said and making up your own conclusion. People should be able to talk about the actual subjects without insulting the person they're debating with though...like grown ups
I wasn't here last year, you're making me paranoid now. :omgno:
Kizzy
25-11-2016, 10:43 AM
You really have taken me up wrongly Kizzy if you think that any of my posts were aimed at you specifically because they really weren't
Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet View Post
with ref to Kizzy and her assertion that the far right are taking over SD below are the last 5 pages of threads and who made them.
Arista: 56
Maru: 15
Northern MOnkey: 12
Hog: 13
LibertyforEva: 12
Cherie: 8
Kirk: 8
The Truth: 8
LT: 7
Johnny: 6
Kizzy: 6
My advice to the others (not you neem) who moan about SD
Make some threads
Yeah, this is good advice, I agree
No idea how I came to that conclusion .....my mistake then obv.
Niamh.
25-11-2016, 10:43 AM
I wasn't here last year, you're making me paranoid now. :omgno:
:laugh:
I don't think it's down to that, in my personal opinion, I think it's probably because less people post there now so you end up talking to the same people all the time and things end up going round in circles and personalities clash
Niamh.
25-11-2016, 10:44 AM
Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet View Post
with ref to Kizzy and her assertion that the far right are taking over SD below are the last 5 pages of threads and who made them.
Arista: 56
Maru: 15
Northern MOnkey: 12
Hog: 13
LibertyforEva: 12
Cherie: 8
Kirk: 8
The Truth: 8
LT: 7
Johnny: 6
Kizzy: 6
My advice to the others (not you neem) who moan about SD
Make some threads
Yeah, this is good advice, I agree
No idea how I came to that conclusion .....my mistake then obv.
I was agreeing with the BIB, that people should make more threads, I said something similar myself yesterday although I see why you thought what you did, my apologies
jaxie
25-11-2016, 10:45 AM
:laugh:
I don't think it's down to that, in my personal opinion, I think it's probably because less people post there now so you end up talking to the same people all the time and things end up going round in circles and personalities clash
I think that's a pretty accurate assessment actually.
I also think that the far left assume anyone whose view differs is far right which in many cases isn't accurate but causes a fair bit of friction.
kirklancaster
25-11-2016, 10:49 AM
Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet View Post
with ref to Kizzy and her assertion that the far right are taking over SD below are the last 5 pages of threads and who made them.
Arista: 56
Maru: 15
Northern MOnkey: 12
Hog: 13
LibertyforEva: 12
Cherie: 8
Kirk: 8
The Truth: 8
LT: 7
Johnny: 6
Kizzy: 6
My advice to the others (not you neem) who moan about SD
Make some threads
Yeah, this is good advice, I agree
No idea how I came to that conclusion .....my mistake then obv.
This is NOT confrontational or baiting, but a simple question to you - and Niamh - because I just do not get it;
How did you educe from that quoted post of Niamh's that she was specifically referring to you???
I just do not see it at all. :shrug:
Yes - I get that LT wrote: "with ref to Kizzy and her assertion that the far right are taking over SD" as a HEADER, but Niamh posted her comment DIRECTLY beneath LT's comment of: "Make some more threads", which means that THIS is the comment to which she was agreeing - in my opinion.
Make some threads
Yeah, this is good advice, I agree
Further reason to believe that Niamh was NOT referring to ANYONE in particular, is the fact that directly ABOVE his comment of 'make some more threads' LT also wrote:
"My advice to the others (not you neem) who moan about SD"
The above COULD NOT BE more clearly addressed to 'others' in general.
So:
It would seem logical to me that when someone comments "Yes I agree with this" DIRECTLY beneath text which says: "My advice to others who moan about SD is to make some more threads" - they are referring to that statement and not any other statements far above it.
In my opinion anyway.
Kizzy
25-11-2016, 10:49 AM
I give up...
Niamh.
25-11-2016, 10:59 AM
I give up...
Don't give up Kizzy, Conor McGregor would never :hee:
Crimson Dynamo
25-11-2016, 11:02 AM
This is NOT confrontational or baiting, but a simple question to you - and Niamh - because I just do not get it;
How did you educe from that quoted post of Niamh's that she was specifically referring to you???
I just do not see it at all. :shrug:
Yes - I get that LT wrote: "with ref to Kizzy and her assertion that the far right are taking over SD" as a HEADER, but Niamh posted her comment DIRECTLY beneath LT's comment of: "Make some more threads", which means that THIS is the comment to which she was agreeing - in my opinion.
Make some threads
Yeah, this is good advice, I agree
Further reason to believe that Niamh was NOT referring to ANYONE in particular is that directly ABOVE his comment of 'make some more threads' LT also wSwas rote:
"My advice to the others (not you neem) who moan about SD"
So:
It would seem logical to me that when someone comments "Yes I agree with this" DIRECTLY beneath text which says: "My advice to others who moan about SD is to make some more threads" - they are referring to that statement and not any other statements far above it.
In my opinion anyway.
:laugh2:
Only you Kirk, only you
kirklancaster
25-11-2016, 11:06 AM
:laugh2:
Only you Kirk, only you
:laugh: Thank you LT.
kirklancaster
25-11-2016, 11:08 AM
Don't give up Kizzy, Conor McGregor would never :hee:
This did not make me laugh out loud. :hee: If Conor was posting on here, he could say that the moon is made of Irish Cheddar, and I would be the FIRST to AGREE with him. :laugh:
Kizzy
25-11-2016, 01:48 PM
This is NOT confrontational or baiting, but a simple question to you - and Niamh - because I just do not get it;
How did you educe from that quoted post of Niamh's that she was specifically referring to you???
I just do not see it at all. :shrug:
Yes - I get that LT wrote: "with ref to Kizzy and her assertion that the far right are taking over SD" as a HEADER, but Niamh posted her comment DIRECTLY beneath LT's comment of: "Make some more threads", which means that THIS is the comment to which she was agreeing - in my opinion.
Make some threads
Yeah, this is good advice, I agree
Further reason to believe that Niamh was NOT referring to ANYONE in particular, is the fact that directly ABOVE his comment of 'make some more threads' LT also wrote:
"My advice to the others (not you neem) who moan about SD"
The above COULD NOT BE more clearly addressed to 'others' in general.
So:
It would seem logical to me that when someone comments "Yes I agree with this" DIRECTLY beneath text which says: "My advice to others who moan about SD is to make some more threads" - they are referring to that statement and not any other statements far above it.
In my opinion anyway.
Yep opinions are like arseholes, we all have one. That was mine, if you don't agree I don't particularly care but I appreciate your right to your view.
Kizzy
25-11-2016, 01:52 PM
Don't give up Kizzy, Conor McGregor would never :hee:
Well, you know me... :smug:
kirklancaster
25-11-2016, 01:54 PM
Yep opinions are like arseholes, we all have one. That was mine, if you don't agree I don't particularly care but I appreciate your right to your view.
Who cares whether you care or not? And NO I don't agree with your opinion but I appreciate your right to it. .
Niamh.
25-11-2016, 01:55 PM
oh fgs seriously :fist:
Niamh.
25-11-2016, 01:56 PM
Well, you know me... :smug:
:laugh:
Kizzy
25-11-2016, 02:09 PM
oh fgs seriously :fist:
https://media1.giphy.com/media/3ornjRzK435CxNB1pC/200_s.gif
why? SDs isn't exempt from the rules of the forum
I've played with the idea of making a "Wild West" subsection in the past... and just remove general visibility of it from the forum tree (i.e. no info on posts, last thread, etc)... and just letting the arguments finish there with really limited capabilities (like no images, hourly post limits, etc :smug:)... just for ****s and giggles... That is so strange to me... most un-moderated places of the net are the crack dens of the interwebs. I'd take a few unnecessarily deleted posts, a few unnice mods, over that any day of the week... and the mods here are really nice about it...
On the other hand, most users these days (any site) seem to care less about transparency... they want that magic to happen, but then they don't like seeing mod notices in their own posts sometimes... well, how do you get a general idea or who is and isn't moderating fairly and that your freedom of speech is being honored? You don't... hence why people instead accuse left and right... and really they do it as a free service, it's not something we are entitled to... it is a private site after all.
I haven't had an infraction or ban in so many years. The only time I was banned from a site was because the owner was a true cockwomble of the highest caliber and I and a few other people were asking common sense questions about his strange business ethics... he didn't like those questions. So we were banned under the rug and I just left it there because I was thinking of quitting there anyway... only he ended up in court a few years later with a mass user exodus over a tarnished rep because he ripped so many people off.
Anyway, TiBB is no where close to being a badly run site imo.... I feel like give credit where it is due. This site really is a privilege that we all share. Even if there are a few unfair shakes and questionable bans/edits/deletes here and there... the mods have been more than willing to listen to all suggestions. Most places just delete or lock threads when those things come up because of the inevitable drama... :laugh: They're like **** you, if you don't like it... leave?
Several people have in numbers mentioned they don't like coming to this section for several reasons... a vast majority of them center around a small minority of users. There are other people who use the site too and they feel their enjoyment of it is impacted by a small minority of the user base who can just as easily remove their personal impediments by utilizing ignore. Something the forum has provided actually as the intended solution to this problem. Mods are really just there to keep threads on track and make sure everything runs the way that it is intended... they are not meant to manage personal grievances on here... instead of doubling the mod's work, why not just utilize ignore as a courtesy to the mod team? That way SD can at least a become a little bit more pleasant... maybe then more people will come post and it will be enjoyed by all, not just "justice served" for a small minority... because let's be realistic, the trolling will never stop on some people's ends... at least do this so we can all enjoy SD more. I've been baited too and those go instantly people are on my squished list. It doesn't have to be for any real particular reason other than they bait you .... we filter people in real life all the time... not everyone will get along ... nobody does. It's unrealistic to believe all will.
I mean how do you feel when you walk into a shop and the stuff is missing/gone through or otherwise left unkempt with food spilled on seats and product because of a certain uncourteous individuals... that's how I feel when I come into SD sometimes... so keep the section nicer for other people by keeping the personal issues to PM. That's courtesy. Otherwise, SD will remain as it is... it'll be the ASDA (I guess it's like a Walmart...) of TiBB... and the only people to blame will be those who don't care about enough about maintaining it for others. It's a community, so that's who it should be managed by.
user104658
25-11-2016, 10:44 PM
One of these days Kirk and Kizzy are just going to have to meet up and bang it out, tbh.
Cherie
25-11-2016, 10:48 PM
One of these days Kirk and Kizzy are just going to have to meet up and bang it out, tbh.
:clap2:
Cherie
25-11-2016, 10:49 PM
I've played with the idea of making a "Wild West" subsection in the past... and just remove general visibility of it from the forum tree (i.e. no info on posts, last thread, etc)... and just letting the arguments finish there with really limited capabilities (like no images, hourly post limits, etc :smug:)... just for ****s and giggles... That is so strange to me... most un-moderated places of the net are the crack dens of the interwebs. I'd take a few unnecessarily deleted posts, a few unnice mods, over that any day of the week... and the mods here are really nice about it...
On the other hand, most users these days (any site) seem to care less about transparency... they want that magic to happen, but then they don't like seeing mod notices in their own posts sometimes... well, how do you get a general idea or who is and isn't moderating fairly and that your freedom of speech is being honored? You don't... hence why people instead accuse left and right... and really they do it as a free service, it's not something we are entitled to... it is a private site after all.
I haven't had an infraction or ban in so many years. The only time I was banned from a site was because the owner was a true cockwomble of the highest caliber and I and a few other people were asking common sense questions about his strange business ethics... he didn't like those questions. So we were banned under the rug and I just left it there because I was thinking of quitting there anyway... only he ended up in court a few years later with a mass user exodus over a tarnished rep because he ripped so many people off.
Anyway, TiBB is no where close to being a badly run site imo.... I feel like give credit where it is due. This site really is a privilege that we all share. Even if there are a few unfair shakes and questionable bans/edits/deletes here and there... the mods have been more than willing to listen to all suggestions. Most places just delete or lock threads when those things come up because of the inevitable drama... :laugh: They're like **** you, if you don't like it... leave?
Several people have in numbers mentioned they don't like coming to this section for several reasons... a vast majority of them center around a small minority of users. There are other people who use the site too and they feel their enjoyment of it is impacted by a small minority of the user base who can just as easily remove their personal impediments by utilizing ignore. Something the forum has provided actually as the intended solution to this problem. Mods are really just there to keep threads on track and make sure everything runs the way that it is intended... they are not meant to manage personal grievances on here... instead of doubling the mod's work, why not just utilize ignore as a courtesy to the mod team? That way SD can at least a become a little bit more pleasant... maybe then more people will come post and it will be enjoyed by all, not just "justice served" for a small minority... because let's be realistic, the trolling will never stop on some people's ends... at least do this so we can all enjoy SD more. I've been baited too and those go instantly people are on my squished list. It doesn't have to be for any real particular reason other than they bait you .... we filter people in real life all the time... not everyone will get along ... nobody does. It's unrealistic to believe all will.
I mean how do you feel when you walk into a shop and the stuff is missing/gone through or otherwise left unkempt with food spilled on seats and product because of a certain uncourteous individuals... that's how I feel when I come into SD sometimes... so keep the section nicer for other people by keeping the personal issues to PM. That's courtesy. Otherwise, SD will remain as it is... it'll be the ASDA (I guess it's like a Walmart...) of TiBB... and the only people to blame will be those who don't care about enough about maintaining it for others. It's a community, so that's who it should be managed by.
I don't actually think it's that big a deal, but that just me maybe
user104658
25-11-2016, 10:58 PM
Several people have in numbers mentioned they don't like coming to this section for several reasons... a vast majority of them center around a small minority of users. There are other people who use the site too and they feel their enjoyment of it is impacted by a small minority of the user base who can just as easily remove their personal impediments by utilizing ignore. Something the forum has provided actually as the intended solution to this problem. Mods are really just there to keep threads on track and make sure everything runs the way that it is intended... they are not meant to manage personal grievances on here... instead of doubling the mod's work, why not just utilize ignore as a courtesy to the mod team? That way SD can at least a become a little bit more pleasant... maybe then more people will come post and it will be enjoyed by all, not just "justice served" for a small minority... because let's be realistic, the trolling will never stop on some people's ends... at least do this so we can all enjoy SD more. I've been baited too and those go instantly people are on my squished list. It doesn't have to be for any real particular reason other than they bait you .... we filter people in real life all the time... not everyone will get along ... nobody does. It's unrealistic to believe all will.
The problem is that TiBB and especially SD's has a relatively small user base and that creates problems with the ignore function. If two frequently-posting, "high-impact" members have each other on ignore, threads can very quickly become confusing and disjointed. Not just for the people using ignore, but for everyone. If multiple people have multiple others on ignore the effect is even worse. I have had a few people on my ignore list in the past but it literally has to be limited to those who don't post often, and ONLY really post to wind people up... as soon as you stick a member who posts "key" thread-altering posts on ignore, no matter how much their posts irritate you, everything becomes much harder to follow.
Plus if someone else quotes them you see the post anyway :joker:.
The problem is that TiBB and especially SD's has a relatively small user base and that creates problems with the ignore function. If two frequently-posting, "high-impact" members have each other on ignore, threads can very quickly become confusing and disjointed. Not just for the people using ignore, but for everyone. If multiple people have multiple others on ignore the effect is even worse. I have had a few people on my ignore list in the past but it literally has to be limited to those who don't post often, and ONLY really post to wind people up... as soon as you stick a member who posts "key" thread-altering posts on ignore, no matter how much their posts irritate you, everything becomes much harder to follow.
Plus if someone else quotes them you see the post anyway :joker:.
I agree with that in general and maybe my commentary is colored by own experiences. Like, when I have requested other people to use ignore, they expect mods to be the court of law instead of taking it upon themselves to fix the situation. They are so deep in the drama, with no objective ROI that can be see by anyone (personal or discussion-wise), that they would rather fight it out in the forum than do what would be easier for really everyone and just keep it either scan their posts or add that person to ignore. Maybe it's my reading style, but the people I have on my list are not people I would necessarily miss as they are generally people involved in other aspects of discussions that I don't necessarily care for (like petty fights). Of course if someone carries discussions well, then I'm going to overlook the littler things because to me that would still make them a good poster to follow... Others are just temporary because I often see them in the list and forget why they were even there in the first place :laugh: Maybe I didn't like their BB favorite or something...
..I tried putting someone on ignore once just to see what it looked like to have someone on ignore and yeah, it would stop the flow of the thread and topic if the person that was on ignore was someone who was hugely participating and active in that thread so it's not an ideal either, we all have our own self ignore button..our own decision and ability to be able to ignore what isn't relevant and what we think is personal while carrying on with the topic and using the report button if we feel it's appropriate..(sorry Niamh, more work..)...
..in thinking about this a bit I think maybe Cherie's right to some extent in that a lot in SD isn't really that much different to how it has always been in the time I've known it.../different faces but same old story in that there will always be fundamental clashes, it's just part of life and differing personalities etc...and I think it's showing honesty about that as well and accepting any part played..ten people or so might have posted something similar but only one post often being 'picked out' and so often also being responded to with hostility, whatever the topic and whatever the thread...also some posts 'invite' that picking out with 'some people in this thread/some people here' type comments...I mean when two tribes want to go to war as it were and pointedly pick out posts because it's a specific tribe then realistically the ignore button is the last thing that is going to be used because those are the posts that have become all relevant in specifically wanting to see them..and the opposing opinions are fine/they're what help to induce thought..it's just accepting and part of the personal stuff and accepting any infractions/bans etc that might incur there and being too absorbed in whether others got infracted or not...just accepting responsibility really and that any 'fault' was all our own....
...anyways, I think what has been the case though is that this year has been a particularly negative year for news stories and a highly volatile political time as well..the threads have felt samey because the news has largely been samey so opinions to it all will obviously be samey as well...Brexit/USA elections and immigration playing a large part in media reporting with both...so we really haven't has a lot to branch out of and stretch ourselves really...(and also maybe why things do seem as though they're carried from one thread to another because threads can feel 'extensions of other threads etc../the topics so similar and covering the same ground..)...all just a really negative media year and uncertain time for us all in so many ways...and I think also, well I'll only speak for myself..whatever is going on in a thread and however side-tracked it may be getting with personal stuff etc...I'll still join it if I want to comment on a topic but the times I don't are more me and maybe I'm in a 'can't be bothered today' vibe, so more my own perspective on a specific day.../that's really all that changes for me...
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 07:58 AM
I think the answer is to have a BULLSHOT section, where any old posts - full of lies, misrepresentation, false facts, misinformation, propaganda and good old 100% political propaganda can be submitted and left in situ for posterity.
The rules should be simple;
No matter how preposterous the claims in such posts may be, NO ONE is allowed to challenge them.
No matter how easily disproved by GENUINE facts the False Facts in such posts may be, GENUINE FACTS will be disallowed.
Where any genuine facts may evade the vetting procedures which are in place, and actually find their way onto the threads, they will be ignored and the JURY of readers instructed to disregard the said genuine facts.
This should help alleviate the perceived problems a little.
Of course a new dictionary will have to be compiled complete with new definitions of commonly used words.
For instance:
A 'determiner' such as the word 'SOME' - which currently means 'an unspecified number' or 'partial number' when used as a pronoun - shall, when used in a sentence of facts by SOME members (no pun intended) be re- classified as meaning 'ALL' for the purposes of MISREPRESENTATION and creating unwarranted argument by other members, as in:
"Some immigrants are criminals"
"Some Muslims are extremists"
"Some Benefit Claimants are fraudsters"
Oh, nearly overlooked this:
Where genuinely true facts are used in an argument to support opinion, such facts should be disregarded if they do not hail from a Liberal Left leaning newspaper. It should not matter that these facts are mirrored in a hundred other media articles, they should STILL be dismissed and not be counted for the purposes of lending hard evidence to substantiate a viewpoint.
"What was that?" "Sorry?" "We already have a section like that?" "It' called what?" "Oh, Serious Debates & News". "Oh. Ok then... Only trying to help".
..I think the thing is for me with 'facts/truth' etc, much like statistics really which is why I don't really do statistics very much...is that depending what site used/which media coverage etc, those facts and truths that we're looking for can be found to fit our own personal views and thoughts...because there are so many 'truths' to most situations.../personally I just prefer to hear an individual's own take on things, listen to their perspective and thoughts etc...
user104658
26-11-2016, 08:16 AM
Preposterous claims like "migrants burned down a building because of Nutella and gummibears"? [emoji23]
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 08:25 AM
..I think the thing is for me with 'facts/truth' etc, much like statistics really which is why I don't really do statistics very much...is that depending what site used/which media coverage etc, those facts and truths that we're looking for can be found to fit our own personal views and thoughts...because there are so many 'truths' to most situations.../personally I just prefer to hear an individual's own take on things, listen to their perspective and thoughts etc...
There is only ONE truth to a truth though Ammi.
That truth can be presented in an article which is imbued with the author's own prejudices, but the kernel of that truth remains.
Take this thread topic for example;
It is BEYOND any refutation or denial, that these two immigrants burnt down the Asylum Centre - whether that fact is surrounded by perceived Right Wing anti-immigrant rhetoric in the Dail Mail, or Left Wing rhetoric in The Morning Star.
No ONE can deny that Thomas Mair murdered poor Jo Cox - no matter which source such a report hails from.
Cherie
26-11-2016, 08:30 AM
..I tried putting someone on ignore once just to see what it looked like to have someone on ignore and yeah, it would stop the flow of the thread and topic if the person that was on ignore was someone who was hugely participating and active in that thread so it's not an ideal either, we all have our own self ignore button..our own decision and ability to be able to ignore what isn't relevant and what we think is personal while carrying on with the topic and using the report button if we feel it's appropriate..(sorry Niamh, more work..)...
..in thinking about this a bit I think maybe Cherie's right to some extent in that a lot in SD isn't really that much different to how it has always been in the time I've known it.../different faces but same old story in that there will always be fundamental clashes, it's just part of life and differing personalities etc...and I think it's showing honesty about that as well and accepting any part played..ten people or so might have posted something similar but only one post often being 'picked out' and so often also being responded to with hostility, whatever the topic and whatever the thread...also some posts 'invite' that picking out with 'some people in this thread/some people here' type comments...I mean when two tribes want to go to war as it were and pointedly pick out posts because it's a specific tribe then realistically the ignore button is the last thing that is going to be used because those are the posts that have become all relevant in specifically wanting to see them..and the opposing opinions are fine/they're what help to induce thought..it's just accepting and part of the personal stuff and accepting any infractions/bans etc that might incur there and being too absorbed in whether others got infracted or not...just accepting responsibility really and that any 'fault' was all our own....
...anyways, I think what has been the case though is that this year has been a particularly negative year for news stories and a highly volatile political time as well..the threads have felt samey because the news has largely been samey so opinions to it all will obviously be samey as well...Brexit/USA elections and immigration playing a large part in media reporting with both...so we really haven't has a lot to branch out of and stretch ourselves really...(and also maybe why things do seem as though they're carried from one thread to another because threads can feel 'extensions of other threads etc../the topics so similar and covering the same ground..)...all just a really negative media year and uncertain time for us all in so many ways...and I think also, well I'll only speak for myself..whatever is going on in a thread and however side-tracked it may be getting with personal stuff etc...I'll still join it if I want to comment on a topic but the times I don't are more me and maybe I'm in a 'can't be bothered today' vibe, so more my own perspective on a specific day.../that's really all that changes for me...
That's it in a nutshell, Brexit, immigration, Trump are all hugely divisive emotive subjects and that is reflected in the forum, personally I think people take the forum a bit too seriously, umbrage is taken at the merest of slights, I've never used the ignore function because I think in the main I can ignore when people are deliberately being provocative, I think it's got to to the point now where it's popular to slate SD and complain about it not being like the good old days and that opinion plays to the gallery, that's my take on it anyway, the debate about it is really is first world problems at its finest.
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 08:33 AM
Preposterous claims like "migrants burned down a building because of Nutella and gummibears"? [emoji23]
The TRUTH is that the immigrants BURNED DOWN the Asylum Centre.
The claim that at least one of the protesting immigrants included the complaint that there was no confectionary among the other complaints HAS been reported by more than one source, but that is IRRELEVANT anyway because it is minor detail, minutiae which whether correct or not SHOULD NOT be clutched at like a straw by a drowning man to deflect from the TRUTH that THE IMMIGRANTS DID BURN DOWN the Asylum Centre.
Except for those who DO NOT LIKE THE FACT because it is counter to their politics, and have no mitigating argument to it.
There is only ONE truth to a truth though Ammi.
That truth can be presented in an article which is imbued with the author's own prejudices, but the kernel of that truth remains.
Take this thread topic for example;
It is BEYOND any refutation or denial, that these two immigrants burnt down the Asylum Centre - whether that fact is surrounded by perceived Right Wing anti-immigrant rhetoric in the Dail Mail, or Left Wing rhetoric in The Morning Star.
No ONE can deny that Thomas Mair murdered poor Jo Cox - no matter which source such a report hails from.
...no obviously not Kirk, well I presume not, that isn't in question but there would be very little to debate with that, just reporting...it's the so many other perspectives of media coverage/portrayal etc/how we view those which present the debate though with these things.../that's how things branch off and debates are formed surely...like the headline that some media adopted in saying this was about gummibears etc...that's an emotional head-line, it's not using the facts that led to this, it's attention grabbing and leads to a very negative for all immigrants because if two people were responsible and did this/which is apparent..?...then the other however many immigrants in that camp had no part in it...
..I tried putting someone on ignore once just to see what it looked like to have someone on ignore and yeah, it would stop the flow of the thread and topic if the person that was on ignore was someone who was hugely participating and active in that thread so it's not an ideal either, we all have our own self ignore button..our own decision and ability to be able to ignore what isn't relevant and what we think is personal while carrying on with the topic and using the report button if we feel it's appropriate..(sorry Niamh, more work..)...
..in thinking about this a bit I think maybe Cherie's right to some extent in that a lot in SD isn't really that much different to how it has always been in the time I've known it.../different faces but same old story in that there will always be fundamental clashes, it's just part of life and differing personalities etc...and I think it's showing honesty about that as well and accepting any part played..ten people or so might have posted something similar but only one post often being 'picked out' and so often also being responded to with hostility, whatever the topic and whatever the thread...also some posts 'invite' that picking out with 'some people in this thread/some people here' type comments...I mean when two tribes want to go to war as it were and pointedly pick out posts because it's a specific tribe then realistically the ignore button is the last thing that is going to be used because those are the posts that have become all relevant in specifically wanting to see them..and the opposing opinions are fine/they're what help to induce thought..it's just accepting and part of the personal stuff and accepting any infractions/bans etc that might incur there and being too absorbed in whether others got infracted or not...just accepting responsibility really and that any 'fault' was all our own....
...anyways, I think what has been the case though is that this year has been a particularly negative year for news stories and a highly volatile political time as well..the threads have felt samey because the news has largely been samey so opinions to it all will obviously be samey as well...Brexit/USA elections and immigration playing a large part in media reporting with both...so we really haven't has a lot to branch out of and stretch ourselves really...(and also maybe why things do seem as though they're carried from one thread to another because threads can feel 'extensions of other threads etc../the topics so similar and covering the same ground..)...all just a really negative media moved the chyear and uncertain time for us all in so many ways...and I think also, well I'll only speak for myself..whatever is going on in a thread and however side-tracked it may be getting with personal stuff etc...I'll still join it if I want to comment on a topic but the times I don't are more me and maybe I'm in a 'can't be bothered today' vibe, so more my own perspective on a specific day.../that's really all that changes for me...
Lovely post, Ammi. I think worth reading a few times over as lots to read here. Sadly not all will have this mindset, which is why the tools are there to help.
Politics has pushed a lot of things overboard. Though I sometimes think maybe politics has not changed so much, but that we have changed... since political conditions are often in conjunction with such changes. Actually what hasn't changed?... maybe time to start a new thread... :laugh:
I think the answer is to have a BULLSHOT section, where any old posts - full of lies, misrepresentation, false facts, misinformation, propaganda and good old 100% political propaganda can be submitted and left in situ for posterity.
The rules should be simple;
No matter how preposterous the claims in such posts may be, NO ONE is allowed to challenge them.
No matter how easily disproved by GENUINE facts the False Facts in such posts may be, GENUINE FACTS will be disallowed.
Where any genuine facts may evade the vetting procedures which are in place, and actually find their way onto the threads, they will be ignored and the JURY of readers instructed to disregard the said genuine facts.
This should help alleviate the perceived problems a little.
Of course a new dictionary will have to be compiled complete with new definitions of commonly used words.
For instance:
A 'determiner' such as the word 'SOME' - which currently means 'an unspecified number' or 'partial number' when used as a pronoun - shall, when used in a sentence of facts by SOME members (no pun intended) be re- classified as meaning 'ALL' for the purposes of MISREPRESENTATION and creating unwarranted argument by other members, as in:
"Some immigrants are criminals"
"Some Muslims are extremists"
"Some Benefit Claimants are fraudsters"
Oh, nearly overlooked this:
Where genuinely true facts are used in an argument to support opinion, such facts should be disregarded if they do not hail from a Liberal Left leaning newspaper. It should not matter that these facts are mirrored in a hundred other media articles, should STILL be dismissed and not be counted for the purposes of lending hard evidence to substantiate a viewpoint.
"What was that?" "Sorry?" "We already have a section like that?" "It' called what?" "Oh, Serious Debates & News". "Oh. Ok then... Only trying to help".
I have a solution... sadly, it involves Nutella and Gummibears and we've run out. :shrug:
[/B]
That's it in a nutshell, Brexit, immigration, Trump are all hugely divisive emotive subjects and that is reflected in the forum, personally I think people take the forum a bit too seriously, umbrage is taken at the merest of slights, I've never used the ignore function because I think in the main I can ignore when people are deliberately being provocative, I think it's got to to the point now where it's popular to slate SD and complain about it not being like the good old days and that opinion plays to the gallery, that's my take on it anyway, the debate about it is really is first world problems at its finest.
...hmmm I don't think that SD is a specific 'target' though, there are squabbles etc in other parts of the forum..'chat thread wars' has always been a thing as well...and personally I don't think to say anything out loud is playing to a gallery either, quite the opposite but again maybe perspective because I'm often reluctant to say anything personally because I can almost feel 'glares of hostility'...and again, I can often just feel, oh it's not worth it, I'll just go to another thread and see what's happening there...
Lovely post, Ammi. I think worth reading a few times over as lots to read here. Sadly not all will have this mindset, which is why the tools are there to help.
Politics has pushed a lot of things overboard. Though I sometimes think maybe politics has not changed so much, but that we have changed... since political conditions are often in conjunction with such changes. Actually what hasn't changed?... maybe time to start a new thread... :laugh:
I have a solution... sadly, it involves Nutella and Gummibears and we've run out. :shrug:
..I don't generally get too involved in politics threads tbh, those are things that I discuss more in my 'real life' circles but yeah it's all in all been such a big year that I have a bit and more than ever before...now that Brexit is decided though and now that Trump is THE MAN, I'll probably be involved less and less...(or maybe, who knows...never say never and keep those options open..)...
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 08:57 AM
...no obviously not Kirk, well I presume not, that isn't in question but there would be very little to debate with that, just reporting...it's the so many other perspectives of media coverage/portrayal etc/how we view those which present the debate though with these things.../that's how things branch off and debates are formed surely...like the headline that some media adopted in saying this was about gummibears etc...that's an emotional head-line, it's not using the facts that led to this, it's attention grabbing and leads to a very negative for all immigrants because if two people were responsible and did this/which is apparent..?...then the other however many immigrants in that camp had no part in it...
Which is exactly why I emboldened the text below in my OP:
German Red Cross Kitchen Master Stefan Gross said: “Most [migrants] were satisfied. There are always very few who complain.
This endorses what I said about the word 'Some' Ammi. I tried and do try to be fair in my posts, and I realise that THE MAJORITY of the immigrants there were grateful and not complaining, but that does not alter or obliterate the fact that SOME immigrants - who SHOULD have been grateful for being taken in, helped, accommodated, fed and otherwise nurtured - DID repay that charity and generosity of spirit by DEMANDING and COMPLAINING and ultimately committing ARSON with no thought for even the safety of their fellow migrants.
As with Islamic Extremists entering Europe by covertly posing as 'Refugees' - it does not take more than one or two to take huge numbers of lives.
If the lack of confectionary was not THE main reason for the protest and Arson, it was a PART of the complaints, so it is extremely pedantic and diversionary for SOME to be condemning any error in the minor details when NOT ONE WORD OF CONDEMNATION has been forthcoming from them in respect of the two immigrants actually committing this atrocious and potentially murderous crime.
...no obviously not Kirk, well I presume not, that isn't in question but there would be very little to debate with that, just reporting...it's the so many other perspectives of media coverage/portrayal etc/how we view those which present the debate though with these things.../that's how things branch off and debates are formed surely...like the headline that some media adopted in saying this was about gummibears etc...that's an emotional head-line, it's not using the facts that led to this, it's attention grabbing and leads to a very negative for all immigrants because if two people were responsible and did this/which is apparent..?...then the other however many immigrants in that camp had no part in it...
The nutella and gummibears thing I imagine is probably a quote from someone...so could've been true, but one of those cases you needed more first hand knowledge in order to verify... (or at least better sources)...because it is a little unbelievable, no matter your political affiliation, to believe such a headline when many outfits will stretch the truth just the same without evidence. Whose to say they didn't "improve" upon the original headline using a known food list... it wouldn't technically be a lie :shrug:
Even if it is over candy, that's the trigger, but what were they really upset about?... many would say. Unless the perp himself is on video saying that's why he did it... the response, well maybe he's mental. Which isn't too far off from my own logic when it comes to some criminal behavior... who goes out of their way to ruin a building, get locked up... over food.
The nutella and gummibears thing I imagine is probably a quote from someone...so could've been true, but one of those cases you needed more first hand knowledge in order to verify... (or at least better sources)...because it is a little unbelievable, no matter your political affiliation, to believe such a headline when many outfits will stretch the truth just the same without evidence. Whose to say they didn't "improve" upon the original headline using a known food list... it wouldn't technically be a lie :shrug:
Even if it is over candy, that's the trigger, but what were they really upset about?... many would say. Unless the perp himself is on video saying that's why he did it... the response, well maybe he's mental. Which isn't too far off from my own logic when it comes to some criminal behavior... who goes out of their way to ruin a building, get locked up... over food.
...obviously it's impossible to know all details but it would seem that it was a build up of tensions concerning some of the Iranian staff there..(I think only a very few staff, but yeah causing tensions and dissent to build..)...and then Ramadan observance being a trigger, there are a few more details but none of it really condones or justifies the actions of destruction and endangering lives...
...obviously it's impossible to know all details but it would seem that it was a build up of tensions concerning some of the Iranian staff there..(I think only a very few staff, but yeah causing tensions and dissent to build..)...and then Ramadan observance being a trigger, there are a few more details but none of it really condones or justifies the actions of destruction and endangering lives...
That narrative makes total sense. Though just to reiterate a point I made earlier (some pages back probably). I wouldn't discount fights over something as basic as candy being one of the reasons, just because people here have fought over minor things as such and stabbed others, flooded cells, started riots, etc... all behaviors common among criminals. Not showing good judgement, anger management issues, going off at the slightest of offense, feeling the need to pick a fight to prove some sort of point... or the ones who just do things because they can get away with it. On the other hand some know exactly what they're doing... meanwhile another half just does it because they can. To me, doesn't mean that migrants == criminals as it's more a statement of the individual(s) who are indeed criminals in their own right... any population you let in, there will always be a crop of such. 1 is too many for some of us when you consider that the Western World has basically been at war with radical Islam for the past 15 years... so giving them any chance to find a foothold here is a big no no... though as the elections have clearly proven, our populations don't necessarily agree on that sentiment anymore. For me, it is hard to believe there are kids now in high school who weren't even alive during 9/11... and soon they too will be voting age.
If this happened in the US, it'd probably be dumbed down to "Muslim refugees" retaliating at a center, etc...I don't think the reasoning would really matter in the long run, as the aftermath would leave a huge mess and the details would be lost. For being a nation made up of other cultures, we're not so tolerant of those coming in and changing with our preconceived paradigms... but then we've never had to be concerned with easily crossable boundaries such as those in the Europe. Had 9/11 not happened, perhaps things would be very different too and maybe would be more willing to welcome more in... as I seem to recall the US being warmer about these things back then. Not really sure though what we would've done... but I ponder...
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 10:16 AM
That narrative makes total sense. Though just to reiterate a point I made earlier (some pages back probably). I wouldn't discount fights over something as basic as candy being one of the reasons, just because people here have fought over minor things as such and stabbed others, flooded cells, started riots, etc... all behaviors common among criminals. Not showing good judgement, anger management issues, going off at the slightest of offense, feeling the need to pick a fight to prove some sort of point... or the ones who just do things because they can get away with it. On the other hand some know exactly what they're doing... meanwhile another half just does it because they can. To me, doesn't mean that migrants == criminals as it's more a statement of the individual(s) who are indeed criminals in their own right... any population you let in, there will always be a crop of such. 1 is too many for some of us when you consider that the Western World has basically been at war with radical Islam for the past 15 years... so giving them any chance to find a foothold here is a big no no... though as the elections have clearly proven, our populations don't necessarily agree on that sentiment anymore. For me, it is hard to believe there are kids now in high school who weren't even alive during 9/11... and soon they too will be voting age.
If this happened in the US, it'd probably be dumbed down to "Muslim refugees" retaliating at a center, etc...I don't think the reasoning would really matter in the long run, as the aftermath would leave a huge mess and the details would be lost. For being a nation made up of other cultures, we're not so tolerant of those coming in and changing with our preconceived paradigms... but then we've never had to be concerned with easily crossable boundaries such as those in the Europe. Had 9/11 not happened, perhaps things would be very different too and maybe would be more willing to welcome more in... as I seem to recall the US being warmer about these things back then. Not really sure though what we would've done... but I ponder...
Another great post with one valid comment after another.
user104658
26-11-2016, 10:20 AM
The TRUTH is that the immigrants BURNED DOWN the Asylum Centre.
The claim that at least one of the protesting immigrants included the complaint that there was no confectionary among the other complaints HAS been reported by more than one source, but that is IRRELEVANT anyway because it is minor detail, minutiae which whether correct or not SHOULD NOT be clutched at like a straw by a drowning man to deflect from the TRUTH that THE IMMIGRANTS DID BURN DOWN the Asylum Centre.
Agreed, so then why include such a "minor detail" in the tabloid headlines / thread topics as to inflate the importance of such a minor detail and detract from the main story? Why make a minor detail a major focus? The answer is fairly simple; to sensationalise. To create the impression that something so ridiculous and petty has prompted such madness as arson. To make the already shocking and ungrateful action seem even MOREso. To reaffirm people's beliefs about the "sort of people" we're dealing with. Confirmation bias... Preposterous frill that actually detracts from the facts.
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 10:25 AM
Agreed, so then why include such a "minor detail" in the tabloid headlines / thread topics as to inflate the importance of such a minor detail and detract from the main story? Why make a minor detail a major focus? The answer is fairly simple; to sensationalise. To create the impression that something so ridiculous and petty has prompted such madness as arson. To make the already shocking and ungrateful action seem even MOREso. To reaffirm people's beliefs about the "sort of people" we're dealing with. Confirmation bias... Preposterous frill that actually detracts from the facts.
But I DO genuinely agree with EVERYTHING you say here. For my part, I have already confessed that I was a little lazy in posting.
But ALL media and Political Parties use the same tactics of 'Fact Embroidery' if you like.
Cherie
26-11-2016, 10:26 AM
8 page thread Kirk, you're doing something right :laugh:
That narrative makes total sense. Though just to reiterate a point I made earlier (some pages back probably). I wouldn't discount fights over something as basic as candy being one of the reasons, just because people here have fought over minor things as such and stabbed others, flooded cells, started riots, etc... all behaviors common among criminals. Not showing good judgement, anger management issues, going off at the slightest of offense, feeling the need to pick a fight to prove some sort of point... or the ones who just do things because they can get away with it. On the other hand some know exactly what they're doing... meanwhile another half just does it because they can. To me, doesn't mean that migrants == criminals as it's more a statement of the individual(s) who are indeed criminals in their own right... any population you let in, there will always be a crop of such. 1 is too many for some of us when you consider that the Western World has basically been at war with radical Islam for the past 15 years... so giving them any chance to find a foothold here is a big no no... though as the elections have clearly proven, our populations don't necessarily agree on that sentiment anymore. For me, it is hard to believe there are kids now in high school who weren't even alive during 9/11... and soon they too will be voting age.
If this happened in the US, it'd probably be dumbed down to "Muslim refugees" retaliating at a center, etc...I don't think the reasoning would really matter in the long run, as the aftermath would leave a huge mess and the details would be lost. For being a nation made up of other cultures, we're not so tolerant of those coming in and changing with our preconceived paradigms... but then we've never had to be concerned with easily crossable boundaries such as those in the Europe. Had 9/11 not happened, perhaps things would be very different too and maybe would be more willing to welcome more in... as I seem to recall the US being warmer about these things back then. Not really sure though what we would've done... but I ponder...
..yeah I think for me the opening up of Europe and being more assessable has been a great positive and something I've enjoyed being part of but then that same opening up has also meant an opening up to those extremes that would mean us harm as well, I understand that and it's keeping perspective there also.../that's always sadly going to be the way...these two men were extreme in their actions, there is no excuse for what they did..the camps conditions are grim but they're the same for everyone, equally as grim, you know...and very hard for the local people as well, which is where it would appear most of the hostile actions have come from, from the link I think you posted Maru.../so just very difficult for everyone and a huge 'build up' also...and that is often the way as well, the thing that 'tips that balance' between coping and not coping through such struggling times and these actions can often be something that can appear quite small to some but it has become a huge thing in that person's world and environment...'that point where reason and rational has gone'.... everyone has the ability to reach that but their specific actions and reactions etc are still accountable for completely...
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 10:33 AM
8 page thread Kirk, you're doing something right :laugh:
:laugh: Yeah, they'd be lost without me, really Cherie. :joker::kiss:
:laugh: Yeah, they'd be lost without me, really Cherie. :joker::kiss:
https://media.giphy.com/media/JXobitbVdqC9q/giphy.gif
Agreed, so then why include such a "minor detail" in the tabloid headlines / thread topics as to inflate the importance of such a minor detail and detract from the main story? Why make a minor detail a major focus? The answer is fairly simple; to sensationalise. To create the impression that something so ridiculous and petty has prompted such madness as arson. To make the already shocking and ungrateful action seem even MOREso. To reaffirm people's beliefs about the "sort of people" we're dealing with. Confirmation bias... Preposterous frill that actually detracts from the facts.
...anyways just before I log off, just thinking a bit about what you've said and I agree, stories and discussions will find their own importance and just because of the importance of them...and no media bits and bobs and frills needed etc which are only there for a media agenda...I blame it all on Katie Hopkins and her sensationalist style of media...:laugh:..the lady holds a lot of responsibility, yeah she does most certainly get people talking and does make some worthy discussion points also but she really is there more for her own self promotion, more getting herself talked about as much as the topics she brings up so the importance of things becoming too diluted...and also provoking extreme reactions and opinions by her own extremes in her methods...
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 12:20 PM
https://media.giphy.com/media/JXobitbVdqC9q/giphy.gif
:laugh:
Crimson Dynamo
26-11-2016, 12:26 PM
Agreed, so then why include such a "minor detail" in the tabloid headlines / thread topics as to inflate the importance of such a minor detail and detract from the main story? Why make a minor detail a major focus? The answer is fairly simple; to sensationalise. To create the impression that something so ridiculous and petty has prompted such madness as arson. To make the already shocking and ungrateful action seem even MOREso. To reaffirm people's beliefs about the "sort of people" we're dealing with. Confirmation bias... Preposterous frill that actually detracts from the facts.
Its called sales TS and dont kid yourself that everyone does not do it
from selling your car or house to selling multinational companies to selling papers
We all sell the sizzle
not the sausage
user104658
26-11-2016, 01:17 PM
Its called sales TS and dont kid yourself that everyone does not do it
from selling your car or house to selling multinational companies to selling papers
We all sell the sizzle
not the sausage
Just because most people do it does not mean that everyone SHOULD do it :nono:. I refuse to believe that we must cater to the lowest common denominator. We're better than that goshdarnit :fist:
Crimson Dynamo
26-11-2016, 01:19 PM
Just because most people do it does not mean that everyone SHOULD do it :nono:. I refuse to believe that we must cater to the lowest common denominator. We're better than that goshdarnit :fist:
We are all drawn to the honey and not the bee
dont fight it TS:nono:
user104658
26-11-2016, 01:25 PM
We are all drawn to the honey and not the bee
dont fight it TS:nono:
No. It has to start somewhere. The revolution can begin, right here on Tibb.
Crimson Dynamo
26-11-2016, 01:26 PM
No. It has to start somewhere. The revolution can begin, right here on Tibb.
yes it will begin and then a mod will delete it
:ninja2:
user104658
26-11-2016, 01:34 PM
yes it will begin and then a mod will delete it
:ninja2:
Not if one of the chosen few starts it :hee:.
Withano
26-11-2016, 02:17 PM
Agreed, so then why include such a "minor detail" in the tabloid headlines / thread topics as to inflate the importance of such a minor detail and detract from the main story? Why make a minor detail a major focus? The answer is fairly simple; to sensationalise. To create the impression that something so ridiculous and petty has prompted such madness as arson. To make the already shocking and ungrateful action seem even MOREso. To reaffirm people's beliefs about the "sort of people" we're dealing with. Confirmation bias... Preposterous frill that actually detracts from the facts.
Excellent post, the OP was unapologetically baity and the source used is genuinely insane. Jihadwatch.org does not belong in serious news, the entire website is pathetic.
Crimson Dynamo
26-11-2016, 02:31 PM
Excellent post, the OP was unapologetically baity and the source used is genuinely insane. Jihadwatch.org does not belong in serious news, the entire website is pathetic.
And yet when another member uses The Canary you and the other left leaning members stay silent?
interesting...:think:
Withano
26-11-2016, 02:40 PM
And yet when another member uses The Canary you and the other left leaning members stay silent?
interesting...:think:
Link to any thread that has used this? Never even heard of it until now.
Northern Monkey
26-11-2016, 02:43 PM
Are Gummy Bears even Halal?
Cherie
26-11-2016, 02:45 PM
Not if one of the chosen few starts it :hee:.
Ain't that the truth
Crimson Dynamo
26-11-2016, 02:54 PM
Link to any thread that has used this? Never even heard of it until now.
just have a trawl through some Kizzy posts at your leisure as she has used it twice maybe 3 times recently.
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 03:26 PM
Excellent post, the OP was unapologetically baity and the source used is genuinely insane. Jihadwatch.org does not belong in serious news, the entire website is pathetic.
You post is insane, though you should be expert upon the subject of baiting. I have not noticed one comment from you about the actual fact of the crime, nor the circumstances surrounding it, just posts which criticise other posts.
I do not care about your views, on my posts, Jihadwatch, or ANYTHING else - though I respect your right to post them.
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 03:32 PM
Not if one of the chosen few starts it :hee:.
:laugh:
Withano
26-11-2016, 03:53 PM
You post is insane, though you should be expert upon the subject of baiting. I have not noticed one comment from you about the actual fact of the crime, nor the circumstances surrounding it, just posts which criticise other posts.
I do not care about your views, on my posts, Jihadwatch, or ANYTHING else - though I respect your right to post them.
Cant even remember the last time i made a thread in serious debates, and I'm sure it wasn't baity. The 'I know you are but what am I' argument doesnt really work well here.
I dont think theres a debate in the crime, I think everyone acknowledges its disgusting and therefore theres not much point repeating what others have said.. The debate, for me, lies in the inappropriate title, the hilarious 'source', and whether this is just a way to spread hatred and bait people into arguments. So that is what I have commented on.
Withano
26-11-2016, 03:58 PM
just have a trawl through some Kizzy posts at your leisure as she has used it twice maybe 3 times recently.
Get me a link of her using the source for a thread idea where the title is as dumb as this one and then we can discuss whether jihadwatch.org and the canary uses similar tactics to spread hatred towards a specific group of people. Otherwise youre just making silly comparisons to prove a point that doesnt exist.
Crimson Dynamo
26-11-2016, 04:03 PM
Get me a link of her using the source for a thread idea where the title is as dumb as this one and then we can discuss whether jihadwatch.org and the canary uses similar tactics to spread hatred towards a specific group of people. Otherwise youre just making silly comparisons to prove a point that doesnt exist.
As if by magic
an example appeared
:hee:
One small English town just sent a giant ***** you to the UK’s xenophobic media
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/11/24/one-small-english-town-just-sent-giant-fck-uks-xenophobic-media/
Withano
26-11-2016, 04:08 PM
As if by magic
an example appeared
:hee:
One small English town just sent a giant ***** you to the UK’s xenophobic media
http://www.thecanary.co/2016/11/24/one-small-english-town-just-sent-giant-fck-uks-xenophobic-media/
Is this an example of why the Canary is just as dumb as Jihadwatch? I was more asking for the link to the thread with a silly title on TiBB, that was the point you were making?
Crimson Dynamo
26-11-2016, 04:11 PM
Is this an example of why the Canary is just as dumb as Jihadwatch? I was more asking for the link to the thread with a silly title on TiBB, that was the point you were making?
no, i made my point about the canary not getting picked up by "certain" members
quite well i think too
:fan:
Withano
26-11-2016, 04:12 PM
no, i made my point about the canary not getting picked up by "certain" members
quite well i think too
:fan:
Well, how can you expect people to react in the same way to The Canary as they have to Jihadwatch if nobody has ever made a thread using this as their main source.
Furthermore, they're not even directly comparable. One is media for leftwing readers, the other has a clear motive to incite racial hatred and reports on nothing else.
Crimson Dynamo
26-11-2016, 04:14 PM
Well, how can you expect people to react in the same way to The Canary as they have to Jihadwatch if nobody has ever made a thread using this as their main source.
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312185&highlight=
:whistle:
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 04:19 PM
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312185&highlight=
:whistle:
:laugh:
THE CHARGE OF THE (544 )LIGHT BRIGADE
Half a league half a league,
Half a league onward,
All in the valley of Death
Rode the six :
'Forward, the Light Brigade!
Charge for the guns' he said:
Into the valley of Death
Rode the six.
Withano
26-11-2016, 04:21 PM
http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312185&highlight=
:whistle:
I mean, the source is multitudes greater than Jihadwatch.org, and the title wasnt baity at all. I think youre trying very hard to make the comparison but its just really not here.
But considering you think theyre good comparisons, is your argument that both threads are stupid or both threads are fine?
For me, this thread is more comparable to somebody making a thread called 'ARE BRITISH PATRIOTS KILLING KITTENS FOR FUN?' Using letsexterminatebrits.com as their source. I can personally guarantee you I would react similarly to what I have done here if somebody was daft enough to create something like this.
kirklancaster
26-11-2016, 04:32 PM
Well, how can you expect people to react in the same way to The Canary as they have to Jihadwatch if nobody has ever made a thread using this as their main source.
Furthermore, they're not even directly comparable. One is media for leftwing readers, the other has a clear motive to incite racial hatred and reports on nothing else.
BUT - the emboldened is OPINION Withano, NOT FACT, and I think that your failure not to to be able to recognise this difference is your problem.
In the OPINION of TENS of MILLIONS of people in this country, Jihadwatch is a relevant site which reports the TRUTH in news articles which DO NOT usually get published in the mainstream media because of Political Correctness.
It is YOUR OPINION, that it has a 'clear motive to incite racial hatred and reports on nothing else' - and that's fine, but it is an opinion, nothing else, and certainly not a fact.
Withano
26-11-2016, 04:37 PM
[/B]
BUT - the emboldened is OPINION Withano, NOT FACT, and I think that your failure not to to be able to recognise this difference is your problem.
In the OPINION of TENS of MILLIONS of people in this country, Jihadwatch is a relevant site which reports the TRUTH in news articles which DO NOT usually get published in the mainstream media because of Political Correctness.
It is YOUR OPINION, that it has a 'clear motive to incite racial hatred and reports on nothing else' - and that's fine, but it is an opinion, nothing else, and certainly not a fact.
Ahahahhahahahha as if you believe this.
[/B]
BUT - the emboldened is OPINION Withano, NOT FACT, and I think that your failure not to to be able to recognise this difference is your problem.
In the OPINION of TENS of MILLIONS of people in this country, Jihadwatch is a relevant site which reports the TRUTH in news articles which DO NOT usually get published in the mainstream media because of Political Correctness.
It is YOUR OPINION, that it has a 'clear motive to incite racial hatred and reports on nothing else' - and that's fine, but it is an opinion, nothing else, and certainly not a fact.
All media should be scrutinized. Mainstream is just more often than not a safer bet because of the fact that they have the resources and manpower to cover stories... plus the high brand visibility and bigger heights can make them more vulnerable to bad press. (but also just as if not more prone to special interests)
Jihadwatch does seem like a pretty baity name... but this from their about page (Disclaimer: I am sleep deprived so haven't read that entire page... I can't comb through that right now :laugh:)
Why Jihad Watch?
Why Jihad Watch? Because non-Muslims in the West, as well as in India, China, Russia, and the world over, are facing a concerted effort by Islamic jihadists, the motives and goals of whom are largely ignored by the Western media, to destroy their societies and impose Islamic law upon them — and to commit violence to that end even while their overall goal remains out of reach. That effort goes under the general rubric of jihad.
https://www.jihadwatch.org/why-jihad-watch
So basically they are a special interest blog and they may have access to sources (or know better how to comb for stories of this type) either via translator or just old fashioned Google. I know in the case of Japan at least.. I often have to read direct from the source (natively) because English media is largely oblivious to a lot of the smaller/fact-based developments there... when the Touhoku tsunami/nuclear disaster occurred, I had to rely on Japanese sources for up to date information... and there was a lot going on that could've affected us all... the newspapers were releasing facts/sensor/data by the minute and it was increasingly obvious the government was downplaying the disaster despite the hydrogen explosions... whereas it took like 24 hours for English to pick up and most of that detail was in a few paragraphs. They were more focused on circumstances... you couldn't get the status of the reactors through English media. Not reliably anyway.
Anyway, this thread... the article title is click-baity and is not established fact (where is the source?)... so yeah. Clickbait titles are a sad reality of the net. Sites are losing revenue massively thanks to Facebook and other social media more or less supplementing their daily diet... so they do all the tricks now to keep in the revenue. I try to support those sites by turning off adblock by clicking the links in Twitter. Every bit counts.
Jihadwatch would not be on my reader's digest :laugh: I know the world has gone crazy... though I am curious to hear why people follow such sites and what they have to gain from them, just from their personal situation.
Kizzy
27-11-2016, 05:58 PM
All media should be scrutinized. Mainstream is just more often than not a safer bet because of the fact that they have the resources and manpower to cover stories... plus the high brand visibility and bigger heights can make them more vulnerable to bad press. (but also just as if not more prone to special interests)
Jihadwatch does seem like a pretty baity name... but this from their about page (Disclaimer: I am sleep deprived so haven't read that entire page... I can't comb through that right now :laugh:)
So basically they are a special interest blog and they may have access to sources (or know better how to comb for stories of this type) either via translator or just old fashioned Google. I know in the case of Japan at least.. I often have to read direct from the source (natively) because English media is largely oblivious to a lot of the smaller/fact-based developments there... when the Touhoku tsunami/nuclear disaster occurred, I had to rely on Japanese sources for up to date information... and there was a lot going on that could've affected us all... the newspapers were releasing facts/sensor/data by the minute and it was increasingly obvious the government was downplaying the disaster despite the hydrogen explosions... whereas it took like 24 hours for English to pick up and most of that detail was in a few paragraphs. They were more focused on circumstances... you couldn't get the status of the reactors through English media. Not reliably anyway.
Anyway, this thread... the article title is click-baity and is not established fact (where is the source?)... so yeah. Clickbait titles are a sad reality of the net. Sites are losing revenue massively thanks to Facebook and other social media more or less supplementing their daily diet... so they do all the tricks now to keep in the revenue. I try to support those sites by turning off adblock by clicking the links in Twitter. Every bit counts.
Jihadwatch would not be on my reader's digest :laugh: I know the world has gone crazy... though I am curious to hear why people follow such sites and what they have to gain from them, just from their personal situation.
You don't advocate it and yet you chose to link to it? That's confusing.
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