Unisex toilets at London primary school spark outrage among parents

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/styles/story_large/public/thumbnails/image/2016/05/13/08/gender_neutral_toilets_reuters.jpg


An east London primary school has provoked a furious backlash from parents after it introduced unisex toilets for pupils over the age of eight.

The controversy arose after a new £12m building at Leytonstone’s Buxton School was equipped with the gender-neutral bathrooms.

Despite a petition protesting against the new toilets having nearly 700 signatures on Sunday, the school’s headteacher Kath Wheeler welcomed the change.

Many parents also voiced their disappointment that the school did not consult them.

One wrote: "This is a terrible idea and has many potential risk to unisex toilets. I am very upset that the school did not even have the decency to consult with the parents of the children, this came as a shock when I was informed by a mother. I would like to know who would be held responsible should there be an incident?”

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/unisex-school-toilets-gender-neutral-london-inclusive-bathrooms-lgbt-same-sex-a7441841.html

----------------------------------------------------

A good idea or a waste of resources?

[Niamh.]

In Primary schools here, each classroom usually has a couple of toilets in the actual classroom which are just cubicles anyway, alot of work places have unisex toilets which are individual cubicles, alot of supermarkets toilets are unisex individual rooms/cubicles :shrug:

[Withano]

Just a bunch of complete whiners who are insesitive of those who may not identify as exlusively male, exclusively female or have opposing genders and sexes. The option is given, it isnt compulsary

"Everyone should be able to use the toilet in peace whether in unisex or single sex toilets. Hopefully the kids will be taught to be respectful of each other, whether in the toilets or not," one parent said.

Ms Wheeler, who is now inviting parents to take tours of the new facility, reminded them that single sex toilets were still available for use.

“No pupil has to use a unisex toilet if they do not want to,” she told the East London and West Essex Guardian."

[Niamh.]

Just a bunch of complete whiners who are insesitive of those who may not identify as exlusively male, exclusively female or have opposing genders and sexes. The option is given, it isnt compulsary

"Everyone should be able to use the toilet in peace whether in unisex or single sex toilets. Hopefully the kids will be taught to be respectful of each other, whether in the toilets or not," one parent said.

Ms Wheeler, who is now inviting parents to take tours of the new facility, reminded them that single sex toilets were still available for use.

“No pupil has to use a unisex toilet if they do not want to,” she told the East London and West Essex Guardian."

What's the actual issue then? :laugh:

[Ammi]

....hmmm, I would question whether parents weren't informed in that all new school builds/large extensions have to have consultation meetings involving all included in what's proposed and all included meaning parents as well.../we had two consultation parent meetings when we had our new build and it wasn't anywhere near the expense of this one...with so many pupils at a school that's all they could do anyway, was to invite parents to these meetings and they must have done because it's a requirement.../anyway, starting in our homes, we all have unisex toilets and children are accustomed to that plus most child sexual abuse happens in the home anyway but I doubt a family all sharing a bathroom contributes to that whatsoever and boy/girl loos are always available as well in schools...(or all I know of..)...

[Smithy]

One wrote: "This is a terrible idea and has many potential risk to unisex toilets


Like.....?

[arista]

Does it Auto Clean?

LT


Then the School saves on Old cleaners etc.

[Northern Monkey]

If it's just an extra option then i don't see the problem tbh.

[Jamesy]

Don't all new schools have unisex toilets? 3 new schools built near me the past few years have all had unisex toilets installed, seems to be the common thing with new school designs... I assume this has only hit the news because it's in London...

Anyhow does it really matter, unisex toilets are usually fine for kids, it's when they get to their later years it becomes an issue (like in work places etc).

[Tom4784]

Just a bunch of whining parents with nothing better to do

[user104658]

Xe xi xo xum, I smell the blood of some cishet scum!

...
..... ...

In other news, if they are individual locking cubicles why does it matter at all?

[jaxie]

Boys toilet was always gross at school. Not sure I'd want to share with the stinkers!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Xe xi xo xum, I smell the blood of some cishet scum!

...
..... ...

In other news, if they are individual locking cubicles why does it matter at all?

why install them at all?

[arista]

Just a bunch of whining parents with nothing better to do



Give Them
Burger King free meal vouchers
Dezzy

[Niamh.]

Deleted some unnecessarily rude posts in here

[arista]

Xe xi xo xum, I smell the blood of some cishet scum!

...
..... ...

In other news, if they are individual locking cubicles why does it matter at all?


I want robots to clean the bogs
Spray Water High temp etc.
Make sure any kid is out of there, TS

The Future is Outstanding

[arista]

In Primary schools here, each classroom usually has a couple of toilets in the actual classroom which are just cubicles anyway, alot of work places have unisex toilets which are individual cubicles, alot of supermarkets toilets are unisex individual rooms/cubicles :shrug:


That is a good way of doing it.

[Beso]

stupid idea.

[Brillopad]

Just a bunch of whining parents with nothing better to do

Says a non-parent.

[Brillopad]

I want robots to clean the bogs
Spray Water High temp etc.
Make sure any kid is out of there, TS

The Future is Outstanding

You have a thing about robots. They belong in movies.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Says a non-parent.

yep

:rolleyes:

[Withano]

Says a non-parent.

Non-parents cant correctly identify whiney-parents because?..

[Brillopad]

Non-parents cant correctly identify whiney-parents because?..

You have to have been there...

[Withano]

You have to have been there...

Interesting does this work for everything ever? Can we identify pets who are in pain? We've never been dogs. Bad veg? Never been a vegetable. Or is it exclusive to whiney parents?
Some parents in the story were fine with the idea. Can we identify the non-whiney ones?

[LaLaLand]

Our toilets in Primary School (Infants) were unisex, all cubicles. No problem at all.

[Brillopad]

Interesting does this work for everything ever? Can we identify pets who are in pain? We've never been dogs. Bad veg? Never been a vegetable. Or is it exclusive to whiney parents?

Perhaps you could answer that question in about 10 years or so, it's about perspective.

As a previous poster said as long as it was a choice and not enforced.

[Withano]

Perhaps you could answer that question in about 10 years or so, it's about perspective.

As a previous poster said as long as it was a choice and not enforced.

It is a choice lol. That is why the parents are so whiney. Perhaps you can answer the question after reading the article. As a previous poster said, it's all about perspective.

[Niamh.]

You have to have been there...

I'm a parent and I agree with him

[Amy Jade]

If I had kids I wouldn't mind this at all, it's actually a good way to talk about how little boys and little girls are different and have different needs etc

[Brillopad]

I'm a parent and I agree with him

Good for you, clearly many don't and it should never be enforced.

[Northern Monkey]

Thinking about it.I think the toilets at my eldests nusery were unisex.They shared with the reception kids.No problems at all.I think once they get older they shouldn't have to have mixed bathrooms but when they're young it seems to work fine.But if this is just an extra bathroom then there's nothing to moan about really.

[user104658]

Just a bunch of whining parents with nothing better to do

I'm a parent and I agree with him

Have to admit, I am utterly sick of whinging parents at the moment. There's a facebook group for parents of kids at my daughter's school and some of the people on there... ffs... all I can say is, I am bored a LOT at home... but I will NEVER, EVER have that sort of time on my hands. The petty, tedious **** they whine about... constantly.

[Niamh.]

Good for you, clearly many don't and it should never be enforced.

But what exactly is being enforced, they are still keeping the single sex toilets? :shrug:

[Niamh.]

Have to admit, I am utterly sick of whinging parents at the moment. There's a facebook group for parents of kids at my daughter's school and some of the people on there... ffs... all I can say is, I am bored a LOT at home... but I will NEVER, EVER have that sort of time on my hands. The petty, tedious **** they whine about... constantly.

Ah stop, this is why I was never one to hang around the school gates :worry:

[user104658]

Ah stop, this is why I was never one to hang around the school gates :worry:
It's getting worse and worse, really bitchy :/. Some poor woman asked a question about raffle tickets on Facebook and it decended into nasty comments so quickly that she ended up removing herself from the group!

And its a really nice school, too... I live in a pretty "well off" little village so it's all middle / upper middle class parents... But actually maybe that's the problem. Bored mums with no real problems to worry about, so they get all worked up about raffle tickets, bake sales and people parking in the wrong place :joker:.

[Niamh.]

It's getting worse and worse, really bitch :/. Some poor woman asked a question about raffle tickets on Facebook and it decended into nasty comments so quickly that she ended up removing herself from the group!

And its a really nice school, too... I live in a pretty "well off" little village so it's all middle / upper middle class parents... But actually maybe that's the problem. Bored mums with no real problems to worry about, so they get all worked up about raffle tickets, bake sales and people parking in the wrong place :joker:.

Yeah that's about the size of it, I live in an area like yours but I grew up in a not so affluent area, there's issues in both but so so different. What's funny though the few parents I did become friendly with (and this was not on purpose) are all people not originally from the area and most are from a similar area to where I came from :laugh:

[Brillopad]

But what exactly is being enforced, they are still keeping the single sex toilets? :shrug:

That is what I mean, that as long as they are keeping the single-sex toilets and the kids have a choice. As long as that remains the case I don't see too many objections, although those not comfortable with it have a right to feel that way.

Honestly I feel that some who are very vocal when they feel they are being singled-out for not conforming to the 'norm' are just as guilty of doing that when the boot is on the other foot. Just goes to show how 'fragile' their sense of right and wrong can be in my opinion.

[Niamh.]

That is what I mean, that as long as they are keeping the single-sex toilets and the kids have a choice. As long as that remains the case I don't see too many objections, although those not comfortable with it have a right to feel that way.

Honestly I feel that some who are very vocal when they feel they are being singled-out for not conforming to the 'norm' are just as guilty of doing that when the boot is on the other foot. Just goes to show how 'fragile' their sense of right and wrong can be in my opinion.

But it is the case and it still "provoked a furious backlash" from parents :shrug:

[Tom4784]

Says a non-parent.

Whether I have kids or not is irrelevant to the discussion.

[Brillopad]

But it is the case and it still "provoked a furious backlash" from parents :shrug:

I don't know - maybe they didn't realise there was a choice.

Although I can still see how there might be some concerns as, depending on the ages involved, cases of boys trying to 'peek' on the girls.

[Brillopad]

Whether I have kids or not is irrelevant to the discussion.

No it isn't as until you have children you don't understand how your perceptions can change.

[Tom4784]

No it isn't as until you have children you don't understand how your perceptions can change.

Again, not relevant. Like Withano said with examples, we don't need to be parents to identify with the issue at hand. You are just trying to deny me my opinion, if you take issue with what I said then argue against it, don't tell me that I can't have an opinion on something.

[Brillopad]

Again, not relevant. Like Withano said with examples, we don't need to be parents to identify with the issue at hand. You are just trying to deny me my opinion, if you take issue with what I said then argue against it, don't tell me that I can't have an opinion on something.

Please don't try to put words in my mouth as I haven't tried to deny you anything, simply stating that parenthood often changes the way you look at the world. I think that is nature's way of protecting the young.

[Jamie89]

I don't see the problem with it, imo make all toilets unisex. What do people think is going to happen exactly?

[Brillopad]

I don't see the problem with it, imo make all toilets unisex. What do people think is going to happen exactly?

That is trying to force your opinion on to others. Common sense dictates some potential problems as people are far from perfect, including kids.

[Northern Monkey]

It's getting worse and worse, really bitchy :/. Some poor woman asked a question about raffle tickets on Facebook and it decended into nasty comments so quickly that she ended up removing herself from the group!

And its a really nice school, too... I live in a pretty "well off" little village so it's all middle / upper middle class parents... But actually maybe that's the problem. Bored mums with no real problems to worry about, so they get all worked up about raffle tickets, bake sales and people parking in the wrong place :joker:.It's strange how things work out.We live in a quite nice part of our area and we didn't get our eldest in any of our choice of schools.He ended up in one that's further away and on a dodgy estate.We weren't happy about it and we were reluctant to send him.Anyway we got him there and most of the parents looked like Jeremy Kyle rejects:laugh:
Anyway it ended up being what seems like a very good school and all the parents when you talk to them are really friendly.It's like everyone wants the school to have a good reputation and they're all on their best behaviour and make the effort to smile and chat with you etc.

[Niamh.]

I don't know - maybe they didn't realise there was a choice.

Although I can still see how there might be some concerns as, depending on the ages involved, cases of boys trying to 'peek' on the girls.

So now you're making up reasons for them? ok then

[Crimson Dynamo]

I would imagine that its cheaper to do this and that was why it was done?

or have I missed something?

[Brillopad]

So now you're making up reasons for them? ok then

Eh, wasn't aware I was making-up anything just guessing.

[Withano]

I would imagine that its cheaper to do this and that was why it was done?

or have I missed something?

Youve missed something. They built a new building with an exclusively male, an exclusively female and a mixed sex bathroom for the children of the school to choose from. It was done because its 2016 and they're a progressive school that cater to all gender identities.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Youve missed something. They built a new building with an exclusively male, an exclusively female and a mixed sex bathroom for the children of the school to choose from. It was done because its 2016 and they're a progressive school that cater to all gender identities.

wow, what a waste of money :shocked:

[Brillopad]

wow, what a waste of money :shocked:

In these times of little/no public funding. Could think of better things it could have been spent on. :shrug:

[Jamie89]

That is trying to force your opinion on to others. Common sense dictates some potential problems as people are far from perfect, including kids.

What problems though? I'm yet to hear what the actual issue is or what people think would happen if unisex toilets were the norm? Just that there might be 'problems'. Common sense would also say to look at existing examples of it, and where I've experienced unisex toilets there hasn't been any issues that I'm aware of.
Is the problem that the boys might peek on the girls? Have a floor to ceiling walled cubicle :shrug: or give them detention to teach them not to be little pervs, and there might be fewer adult pervs in the future

[Crimson Dynamo]

What problems though? I'm yet to hear what the actual issue is or what people think would happen if unisex toilets were the norm? Just that there might be 'problems'. Common sense would also say to look at existing examples of it, and where I've experienced unisex toilets there hasn't been any issues that I'm aware of.
Is the problem that the boys might peek on the girls? Have a floor to ceiling walled cubicle :shrug: or give them detention to teach them not to be little pervs, and there might be fewer adult pervs in the future

I guess if it saves space then grand but you cant have boys girls and unisex as that makes no sense (as well as disabled). But for a boy its easier to just go in piss in a urinal and walk out - its much more bother to go into a stall and lock the door etc, i expect most boys would just piss with the door open and then the girls would be like ew?

[Withano]

wow, what a waste of money :shocked:

Its a £12m building. Its gonna have more than 3 bathrooms so it makes complete sense to have at least one for those who may not identify as entirely male or entirely female.

[Jamie89]

I guess if it saves space then grand but you cant have boys girls and unisex as that makes no sense (as well as disabled). But for a boy its easier to just go in piss in a urinal and walk out - its much more bother to go into a stall and lock the door etc, i expect most boys would just piss with the door open and then the girls would be like ew?
It's not that much more bother, and I don't necessarily think that would happen, if they're given rules surrounding it I don't see any reason why they wouldn't follow them. It's like anything, I mean if urinals didn't exist and they were being proposed now you'd probably get some people outraged because "omg what if they **** in them as well", or "what about the gay ones having a peek" :omgno: but we accept urinals as fine because we have 'rules' for them that boys learn early on, so the same could easily become true for unisex toilets. I think we just assume the worst sometimes and don't give people enough credit for being able to learn a new way of doing something. It's just pissing and ****ing at the end of the day [emoji23] it's easy enough to close a door and it shouldn't really matter who's in the next cubicle so it doesn't make any sense to me why it has to be gendered.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's not that much more bother, and I don't necessarily think that would happen, if they're given rules surrounding it I don't see any reason why they wouldn't follow them. It's like anything, I mean if urinals didn't exist and they were being proposed now you'd probably get some people outraged because "omg what if they **** in them as well", or "what about the gay ones having a peek" :omgno: but we accept urinals as fine because we have 'rules' for them that boys learn early on, so the same could easily become true for unisex toilets. I think we just assume the worst sometimes and don't give people enough credit for being able to learn a new way of doing something. It's just pissing and ****ing at the end of the day [emoji23] it's easy enough to close a door and it shouldn't really matter who's in the next cubicle so it doesn't make any sense to me why it has to be gendered.

yes but you cant have them and boys and girls ones surely

You just have unisex? (disabled ones are unisex as it goes)

[Withano]

At the end of it all, people are mad because children have more than one option and to me that is illogical. But I do think they will become increasingly common everywhere, so buckle up.

[Jamie89]

yes but you cant have them and boys and girls ones surely

You just have unisex? (disabled ones are unisex as it goes)
Maybe they have them as well as boys and girls because it's transitional? Or to please the complaining parents? But they want to bring unisex ones in anyway because it's a step forward? I don't know, I'm not sure what their reasons are for that I just think the unisex ones are a good idea.

[Brillopad]

Its a £12m building. Its gonna have more than 3 bathrooms so it makes complete sense to have at least one for those who may not identify as entirely male or entirely female.

I do take issue with that. What exactly do you mean by 'those that do not identify as entirely male or female' - does that mean they would use either depending on their mood, surely you have to identify with either one or the other. Sounds like having their cake and eat it to me.

[Withano]

I do take issue with that. What exactly do you mean by 'those that do not identify as entirely male or female' - does that mean they would use either depending on their mood, surely you have to identify with either one or the other. Sounds like having their cake and eat it to me.

Lol what. I mean bigender, agender, transgender, non-binary etc... it isn't just blue for boy, pink for girl. Theres a lot inbetween and a lot not on the scale who may have otherwise been forced to pick a side. (It isn't mood dependent, obviously)

[Crimson Dynamo]

Lol what. I mean bigender, agender, transgender, non-binary etc... it isn't just blue for boy, pink for girl. Theres a lot inbetween and a lot not on the scale who may have otherwise been forced to pick a side. (It isn't mood dependent, obviously)

And what percentage are we talking here 0.3% of pupils ?

in adulthood I heard on lbc the percentage is less than 1% so for kids who are just going thru puberty etc its just mental to try and guess, no?

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-dangerous-and-wrong-to-tell-all-children-theyre-gender-fluid/

It’s dangerous and wrong to tell all children they’re ‘gender fluid’

http://cdn.spectator.co.uk/content/uploads/2016/01/Dress.jpg

[Brillopad]

Lol what. I mean bigender, agender, transgender, non-binary etc... it isn't just blue for boy, pink for girl. Theres a lot inbetween and a lot not on the scale who may have otherwise been forced to pick a side. (It isn't mood dependent, obviously)

I don't know about that, but I do know that no one has the right to force girls to share toilets with boys and be made to feel uncomfortable. Boys peeking on girls may not bother you, but it would bother many girls. I can understand how many parents would feel concerned about that.

[user104658]

wow, what a waste of money :shocked:
I doubt it even costs much more though? How much does a partition wall cost? They probably didn't install more plumbing / toilets / sinks... Just divided them between three rooms instead of two :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I doubt it even costs much more though? How much does a partition wall cost? They probably didn't install more plumbing / toilets / sinks... Just divided them between three rooms instead of two :shrug:

its irrelevant

withano said the magic word "binary" and as such the thread is now dead

RIP

:)

[Withano]

I don't know about that, but I do know that no one has the right to force girls to share toilets with boys and be made to feel uncomfortable. Boys peeking on girls may not bother you, but it would bother many girls. I can understand how many parents would feel concerned about that.

What bothers you is completely irrelevant to the story, why do you keep bringing it up. Girls arent being forced to share a bathroom with boys or vice versa.

[user104658]

I don't know about that, but I do know that no one has the right to force girls to share toilets with boys and be made to feel uncomfortable. Boys peeking on girls may not bother you, but it would bother many girls. I can understand how many parents would feel concerned about that.
I agree with you there but how is it in any way relevant if there IS a girl's bathroom they can choose to use if they don't want to use a unisex one...

[Crimson Dynamo]

good luck teachers...

[Johnnyuk123]

And what percentage are we talking here 0.3% of pupils ?

in adulthood I heard on lbc the percentage is less than 1% so for kids who are just going thru puberty etc its just mental to try and guess, no?

Also...People are forgetting how cruel kids can be so any kid using these toilets will be taunted on the playground and the last thing a child needs is to be singled out by their peers.

[Withano]

Also...People are forgetting how cruel kids can be so any kid using these toilets will be taunted on the playground and the last thing a child needs is to be singled out by their peers.

Ah cool, your advice for a person stuggling with their gender identity is to keep it hidden because kids are cruel. Thats more rational than teaching kids not to be ***** yeh?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ah cool, your advice for a person stuggling with their gender identity is to keep it hidden because kids are cruel. Thats more rational than teaching kids not to be ***** yeh?

no by all means tell every one because that will work

:umm2:

[Brillopad]

I agree with you there but how is it in any way relevant if there IS a girl's bathroom they can choose to use if they don't want to use a unisex one...

I was referring to if one unisex bathroom became the way forward as was suggested by one poster. As long as they can choose, but for how long ...

[Jack_]

http://www.spectator.co.uk/2016/01/its-dangerous-and-wrong-to-tell-all-children-theyre-gender-fluid/

It’s dangerous and wrong to tell all children they’re ‘gender fluid’

http://cdn.spectator.co.uk/content/uploads/2016/01/Dress.jpg

lol what an atrocious article, where do I even begin

Anyway this is a non-story, male and female toilets still exist in this school so the complaining is completely misplaced. I personally believe all toilets should be gender neutral anyway because their use is for pissing and ****ting (and maybe the occasional blowjob if you're that way inclined)...what relevance is it as to who is in the next door cubicle?

I discovered the gender neutral toilets in our uni library by accident about a month ago and they're amazing, just two individual cubicle like rooms with a full length door, toilet, sink and dryer in. Like a disabled toilet but for everyone. Bliss.

[Alf]

On the subject of gender, I saw this great parody, and I thought I'd share

AQoDqZabmWU

[Black Dagger]

All our toilets were unisex when I was at primary school. I fail to see the OUTRAGE

[Withano]

no by all means tell every one because that will work

:umm2:

As long as schools educate, it wont be a problem. Nothing squashes transphobia faster than understanding basic biology, so lets stay hopeful.

[Jessica.]

Like a disabled toilet but for everyone. Bliss.

:joker:

[Niamh.]

I guess if it saves space then grand but you cant have boys girls and unisex as that makes no sense (as well as disabled). But for a boy its easier to just go in piss in a urinal and walk out - its much more bother to go into a stall and lock the door etc, i expect most boys would just piss with the door open and then the girls would be like ew?

Gav says he think urinals are draconian, i seriously doubt most boys would piss with door open

[user104658]

Gav says he think urinals are draconian, i seriously doubt most boys would piss with door open

They are generally pretty disgusting. Especially anywhere alcohol is served :umm2:.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Gav says he think urinals are draconian, i seriously doubt most boys would piss with door open

why would you shut the door who as you are facing the bog?

[Niamh.]

They are generally pretty disgusting. Especially anywhere alcohol is served :umm2:.

I can imagine :worry:

[Niamh.]

why would you shut the door who as you are facing the bog?

For some privacy? In Lukes classroom at school they have two toilets off their classroom and they all close the door when they go the bathroom......like he does when he's at home :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

For some privacy? In Lukes classroom at school they have two toilets off their classroom and they all close the door when they go the bathroom......like he does when he's at home :shrug:

he doesnt close the door at home if he is just having a pee?

or does he

[user104658]

I can imagine :worry:
I've worked in the same place for 4 and a half years now... I have been into the men's customer toilets 5 times. Twice for burst pipes, three times because needles were found (urgh). They're that bad. I try to pretend they don't exist. The smell.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You should try the bogs at a big match, the last game I went to at hampden people were pissing in the corners as it was a 3 deep wait for a urinal

[Niamh.]

he doesnt close the door at home if he is just having a pee?

or does he

Yeah he does

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah he does

:nono:

door open, lid left up, dont bother washing his hands

you have to have a system

[Niamh.]

:nono:

door open, lid left up, dont bother washing his hands

you have to have a system

Gross

[Crimson Dynamo]

Gross

or just go out the back door