Israel soldier found guilty of manslaughter of palistinien.

[Beso]

The video of the shooting is too horrific for the page...should have been done for murder in my opinion.:fist:

[Livia]

There's nothing as dangerous as a wounded enemy.

[Beso]

There's nothing as dangerous as a wounded enemy.

Lol..watch the video.

[Denver]

Yes lets let the terrorist live to kill others

[Livia]

Lol..watch the video.

Lol... I've seen it. Ages ago.

The man he shot had just stabbed an Israeli soldier.

[Beso]

Yes lets let the terrorist live to kill others

Lol. Watch the video.

[Beso]

Lol... I've seen it. Ages ago.

The man he shot had just stabbed an Israeli soldier.

Hardly just done it.

He was neutrolised and it was a good 15 mins after that..he just walks up and blasts him in the head...if thats not murder then what is!

[Beso]

Sorry. I shouldnt have called the victim a terrorist. He wasnt.

[Livia]

Hardly just done it.

He was neutrolised and it was a good 15 mins after that..he just walks up and blasts him in the head...if thats not murder then what is!

Fifteen minutes isn't such a long time. And like I said... I saw the video a long time ago. I work in Israel frequently.

Palestinians aren't such a fluffy bunch. They'll torture someone to death rather than put a bullet in their head. Or use them as human sheilds, even their own people.

Anyhoo, I predict this will turn into another anti-Israeli thead, so I'm losing interest fast.

[Livia]

Sorry. I shouldnt have called the victim a terrorist. He wasnt.

I will inform Tel Aviv they have it wrong. Someone on TiBB says the Palestinian was not a terrorist.

[Beso]

Both sides are as bad as eachother imo..i remember the video showing 2 palis being repeatedly hit with massive rocks on their arms for at least ten mins by 2 israelis..

[Beso]

I will inform Tel Aviv they have it wrong. Someone on TiBB says the Palestinian was not a terrorist.

You better mention sky and bbc as well cause they aint going with the terrorist description either.

[Livia]

Both sides are as bad as eachother imo..i remember the video showing 2 palis being repeatedly hit with massive rocks on their arms for at least ten mins by 2 israelis..


Maybe they were on LSD.

Incidentally, you've spelt 'Palestinian' wrong in your thread title.

[Livia]

You better mention sky and bbc as well cause they aint going with the terrorist description either.

Oh well, that's that then.

[Beso]

Maybe they were on LSD.

Incidentally, you've spelt 'Palestinian' wrong in your thread title.

Cheers..i did start with ian..but it looked wiered.:smug:

[Livia]

Cheers..i did start with ian..but it looked wiered.:smug:

LOL... Parmnion, turn your bloody spell checker on!

Anyhoo... we won't agree on this, so... having had my say, I'm off.

[Beso]

K..happy new year by the way.

[Tom4784]

Ive not seen the video and I won't watch it as I don't want to watch someone die but if an enemy combatant has been apprehended and killed when he could no longer pose a threat then that's straight up murder.

[arista]

Yes lets let the terrorist live to kill others

Do not be silly
he was wounded
Could not fire back
Would Never Get Out of Prison


The Army Fella
is very young
he can take whatever happens

[arista]

Ive not seen the video and I won't watch it as I don't want to watch someone die but if an enemy combatant has been apprehended and killed when he could no longer pose a threat then that's straight up murder.


Its a Head Shot
Instant Death.

[arista]

I will inform Tel Aviv they have it wrong. Someone on TiBB says the Palestinian was not a terrorist.


He was a Terrorist
but on the floor
not able to fire back etc.

[arista]

The video of the shooting is too horrific for the page...should have been done for murder in my opinion.:fist:


No Manslaughter
is Correct

It a good step Forward for Israel

[arista]

You better mention sky and bbc as well cause they aint going with the terrorist description either.


Hang on SkyNewsHD
said he was.


I look Forward to 7PM Ch4HD News

[Brillopad]

He was a Terrorist
but on the floor
not able to fire back etc.

Are those targeted by terrorists able to fight back?

If he was a terrorist karma got him.

[DemolitionRed]

Are those targeted by terrorists able to fight back?

If he was a terrorist karma got him.

If Israel found him not guilty of terrorism then he wasn't a terrorist.

[y.winter]

So about that...

This Palestinian (and his friend) has been neutralized as they stabbed an Israeli soldier without the latter triggering anything. You know, this is how we say hello to each other on the streets here in Israel. Israeli soldiers are occasionally being confused with tomatoes and the Palestinian guys just craved a salad hence the knife.
Yeah, they were terrorist.
Elor (the Israeli soldier) shot the remaining terrorist dead (as the IDF judges declared today) and as being seen in this footage and another one.
Did he have a good reason? He defends himself by saying it was self-protection and that he saw the terrorist trying to reach out for a weapon when he was on the ground. The judges have dismissed this claim.
What would have happened had he not shoot him? The terrorist would have been driven to the Israeli hospital, getting medical care, recovering, going to jail where he'll get better living conditions than he'll ever get from the Palestinian Authority, keep promoting his idea from within the jail accompanied by his fellow Palestinian terrorists prisoners who were lucky enough to kill a few Israelis (damn it, he would've looked like such an amateur next to them), getting released from the jail back to where he came from just to get ready for his next terror comeback (hopefully a successful one this time).
No Israeli would've received such treatment from the other side (terrorist or not).
The soldier didn't act according to his commanders instructions. That's wrong. He's not there to do whetever he wants.
However, the Palastenian is a terrorist and I can asure you he would've killed Israelis had he stayed alive, give it a year, give it a decade, it will happen. It happened before, not once, not twice.
There was a massive media coverage in the local media, the people are divided whether he was right or wrong to do so. People have opinions and they are not afraid to say them out loud (unlike over the border).
He has been found guilty by the IDF. The same ministry of defense which should have been "in his favor". But no, it doesn't work like this here - surprise surprise!
The BBC can keep on bashing Israel/not calling a terrorist by his name. It's nice and easy to cluck while you sit in your office, watching the Thames flowing. I can tell you that - the Europeans are very naive, but the Islamic terrorism has started knocking on your doors too. I can tell you where this is all going.
In general, not about the whole soldier-terrorist shebang. Israel is located in a problematic area (whether it's right or wrong, that's a whole new story). In 68 years it achieved more than any other country in the middle east, present and future. You can say a lot of bad things about Israel. Believe me, I can too. But it's the best place to find yourself in when in the middle east. The UK couldn't have dealt with the Palestinian situation any better. No one can be a saint and stay clean in a dirty game. I hope for the UK and the rest of Europe to never know how it really feels and have the comfort of shouting their tsk-tsk-tsk as loud as they can while they sit on the couch and watch the BBC.


*I'm Israeli, more left wing than right, agree with the soldier being guilty but at the same time I believe he saved lives. Yes, reality is complicated.

[arista]

Are those targeted by terrorists able to fight back?

If he was a terrorist karma got him.


The Main Point is
this one Terrorist was still
not able to move
and was then Shot in his head
The Army fella being Very Young



So Manslaughter is the Correct Charge

[Brillopad]

So about that...

This Palestinian (and his friend) has been neutralized as they stabbed an Israeli soldier without the latter triggering anything. You know, this is how we say hello to each other on the streets here in Israel. Israeli soldiers are occasionally being confused with tomatoes and the Palestinian guys just craved a salad hence the knife.
Yeah, they were terrorist.
Elor (the Israeli soldier) shot the remaining terrorist dead (as the IDF judges declared today) and as being seen in this footage and another one.
Did he have a good reason? He defends himself by saying it was self-protection and that he saw the terrorist trying to reach out for a weapon when he was on the ground. The judges have dismissed this claim.
What would have happened had he not shoot him? The terrorist would have been driven to the Israeli hospital, getting medical care, recovering, going to jail where he'll get better living conditions than he'll ever get from the Palestinian Authority, keep promoting his idea from within the jail accompanied by his fellow Palestinian terrorists prisoners who were lucky enough to kill a few Israelis (damn it, he would've looked like such an amateur next to them), getting released from the jail back to where he came from just to get ready for his next terror comeback (hopefully a successful one this time).
No Israeli would've received such treatment from the other side (terrorist or not).
The soldier didn't act according to his commanders instructions. That's wrong. He's not there to do whetever he wants.
However, the Palastenian is a terrorist and I can asure you he would've killed Israelis had he stayed alive, give it a year, give it a decade, it will happen. It happened before, not once, not twice.
There was a massive media coverage in the local media, the people are divided whether he was right or wrong to do so. People have opinions and they are not afraid to say them out loud (unlike over the border).
He has been found guilty by the IDF. The same ministry of defense which should have been "in his favor". But no, it doesn't work like this here - surprise surprise!
The BBC can keep on bashing Israel/not calling a terrorist by his name. It's nice and easy to cluck while you sit in your office, watching the Thames flowing. I can tell you that - the Europeans are very naive, but the Islamic terrorism has started knocking on your doors too. I can tell you where this is all going.
In general, not about the whole soldier-terrorist shebang. Israel is located in a problematic area (whether it's right or wrong, that's a whole new story). In 68 years it achieved more than any other country in the middle east, present and future. You can say a lot of bad things about Israel. Believe me, I can too. But it's the best place to find yourself in when in the middle east. The UK couldn't have dealt with the Palestinian situation any better. No one can be a saint and stay clean in a dirty game. I hope for the UK and the rest of Europe to never know how it really feels and have the comfort of shouting their tsk-tsk-tsk as loud as they can while they sit on the couch and watch the BBC.


*I'm Israeli, more left wing than right, agree with the soldier being guilty but at the same time I believe he saved lives. Yes, reality is complicated.

Well said - I agree with every word of that. Consequences - if you fight like a coward, you deserve what you get.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I have every sympathy with soldiers have to deal with terrorists

[Beso]

So about that...

This Palestinian (and his friend) has been neutralized as they stabbed an Israeli soldier without the latter triggering anything. You know, this is how we say hello to each other on the streets here in Israel. Israeli soldiers are occasionally being confused with tomatoes and the Palestinian guys just craved a salad hence the knife.
Yeah, they were terrorist.
Elor (the Israeli soldier) shot the remaining terrorist dead (as the IDF judges declared today) and as being seen in this footage and another one.
Did he have a good reason? He defends himself by saying it was self-protection and that he saw the terrorist trying to reach out for a weapon when he was on the ground. The judges have dismissed this claim.
What would have happened had he not shoot him? The terrorist would have been driven to the Israeli hospital, getting medical care, recovering, going to jail where he'll get better living conditions than he'll ever get from the Palestinian Authority, keep promoting his idea from within the jail accompanied by his fellow Palestinian terrorists prisoners who were lucky enough to kill a few Israelis (damn it, he would've looked like such an amateur next to them), getting released from the jail back to where he came from just to get ready for his next terror comeback (hopefully a successful one this time).
No Israeli would've received such treatment from the other side (terrorist or not).
The soldier didn't act according to his commanders instructions. That's wrong. He's not there to do whetever he wants.
However, the Palastenian is a terrorist and I can asure you he would've killed Israelis had he stayed alive, give it a year, give it a decade, it will happen. It happened before, not once, not twice.
There was a massive media coverage in the local media, the people are divided whether he was right or wrong to do so. People have opinions and they are not afraid to say them out loud (unlike over the border).
He has been found guilty by the IDF. The same ministry of defense which should have been "in his favor". But no, it doesn't work like this here - surprise surprise!
The BBC can keep on bashing Israel/not calling a terrorist by his name. It's nice and easy to cluck while you sit in your office, watching the Thames flowing. I can tell you that - the Europeans are very naive, but the Islamic terrorism has started knocking on your doors too. I can tell you where this is all going.
In general, not about the whole soldier-terrorist shebang. Israel is located in a problematic area (whether it's right or wrong, that's a whole new story). In 68 years it achieved more than any other country in the middle east, present and future. You can say a lot of bad things about Israel. Believe me, I can too. But it's the best place to find yourself in when in the middle east. The UK couldn't have dealt with the Palestinian situation any better. No one can be a saint and stay clean in a dirty game. I hope for the UK and the rest of Europe to never know how it really feels and have the comfort of shouting their tsk-tsk-tsk as loud as they can while they sit on the couch and watch the BBC.


*I'm Israeli, more left wing than right, agree with the soldier being guilty but at the same time I believe he saved lives. Yes, reality is complicated.

We dont all sit in front of the telly, and many many of us are and have been effected by terrorist activities right here in the uk...i still dont get the urge to take pot shots with my high powered rifle at kids throwing stones though, let alone a dying man laying helpless on the ground.

[y.winter]

let alone a dying man laying helpless on the ground.

Poor little innocent man.
You make it sound like he was just randomly laying on the ground gazing the sun.

[Beso]

Poor little innocent man.
You make it sound like he was just randomly laying on the ground gazing the sun.

talking ****...:nono:

[Tom4784]

Terrorist or not, you don't kill people who have been apprehended just because you want to be judge, jury and executioner.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Same as the poor soldier in Afghanistan who was disgustingly jailed

[y.winter]

talking ****...:nono:
Enlighten me.

[Beso]

Enlighten me.

Well i never mentioned short shirts or even shades, so i think you were talking **** by saying i make him sound like he was sunbathing or whatever:shrug:

[arista]

I have every sympathy with soldiers have to deal with terrorists


Of course LT
but this Young Army Officer
was filmed Killing a Terrorist who could not fight back

[y.winter]

Well i never mentioned short shirts or even shades, so i think you were talking **** by saying i make him sound like he was sunbathing or whatever:shrug:
Yes, I know you didn't mention shirt and shades. You portraited him like he didn't do anything that made him end there on the ground. A "man"on the ground. Random and general as that. He tired to stab people, let's not forget it.

The soldier was wrong deciding to shoot him. He's still a terrorist though.

[arista]

http://e3.365dm.com/17/01/206x155/0e6e51d9567e0bc82a0b71d033833950b627b7f2a2f13c3e3d 501f46bac21628_3864333.jpg?20170104121939
The Army fella just aged 20

http://news.sky.com/story/israeli-soldier-convicted-of-killing-wounded-palestinian-10717632

[user104658]

It isn't even about what is or isn't morally justified in an individual situation, or whether or not this action hypothetically has saved lives.

He is a soldier and he let his emotions get the better of him, he was undisciplined, took things into his own hands, and executed an unarmed prisoner. It CANNOT go unpunished. You CANNOT send soldiers the message that they can play by their own rules and do whatever they feel like doing at the time. It would be an absolute disaster.

[Beso]

Yes, I know you didn't mention shirt and shades. You portraited him like he didn't do anything that made him end there on the ground. A "man"on the ground. Random and general as that. He tired to stab people, let's not forget it.

The soldier was wrong deciding to shoot him. He's still a terrorist though.


Would have made more sense not to kill him in that case.

[Brillopad]

Personally I couldn't give a damn about any terrorist. When they commit such cowardly acts against innocent people they lower themselves to a level of inhumanity that makes them inhuman and therefore not worthy of any human rights.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Personally I couldn't give a damn about any terrorist. When they commit such cowardly acts against innocent people they lower themselves to a level of inhumanity that makes them inhuman and therefore not worthy of any human rights.

yep

[user104658]

Personally I couldn't give a damn about any terrorist. When they commit such cowardly acts against innocent people they lower themselves to a level of inhumanity that makes them inhuman and therefore not worthy of any human rights.

It doesn't matter what they're worthy of. It doesn't matter if they deserved to die. A civilian family member of one of the victims came along and gunned him down? Great!

All of that is irrelevant. Soldiers follow the rules and follow their orders, they DON'T get to play judge and executioner outside of a combat situation with an unarmed prisoner. Full stop. Doesn't matter WHO it is or what they have done. The second you start letting soldiers get away with making executive decisions you have lost control of your troops, and that is all there is to it. He MUST be made an example of, or the army he is a part of will be in chaos.

[Brother Leon]

There were terrorists all over Aleppo killing soldiers, but we were supposed to be crying over the fact they can't have a safe passage out of there. Just saying...

[user104658]

There were terrorists all over Aleppo killing soldiers, but we were supposed to be crying over the fact they can't have a safe passage out of there. Just saying...

No we're supposed to be insisting that professional soldiers adhere to their army's rules of engagement and not make excuses for them when they over-step their level of authority and make executive decisions without orders. For any reason.

I'm just going to keep saying it tbh.

[Livia]

Well i never mentioned short shirts or even shades, so i think you were talking **** by saying i make him sound like he was sunbathing or whatever:shrug:

You can't know as much about this subject as y.winter, who LIVES in Israel. He isn't cherry-picking bits of a story to suit his dubious agenda.

[Livia]

No we're supposed to be insisting that professional soldiers adhere to their army's rules of engagement and not make excuses for them when they over-step their level of authority and make executive decisions without orders. For any reason.

I'm just going to keep saying it tbh.

Says a man who has never been in a war zone, let alone on active service, but is insisting on a code of conduct from our troops, which they can never lapse from, despite circumstances and who are serving in an active war zone. You see a couple of mates with their legs blown off you're not going to be that concerned about shooting a terrorist in the head. A terrorist. Not a bystander.

There is nothing more dangerous than a wounded enemy.

[Livia]

There were terrorists all over Aleppo killing soldiers, but we were supposed to be crying over the fact they can't have a safe passage out of there. Just saying...

They're not British though. A much higher standard is demanded from our troops from people whose first concern seems to be the Human Rights of terrorists.

[user104658]

Says a man who has never been in a war zone, let alone on active service, but is insisting on a code of conduct from our troops, which they can never lapse from, despite circumstances and who are serving in an active war zone. You see a couple of mates with their legs blown off you're not going to be that concerned about shooting a terrorist in the head. A terrorist. Not a bystander.

There is nothing more dangerous than a wounded enemy.

I'm not for a moment saying I don't understand why it happens, if someone killed a friend of mine there's no doubt in my mind that I *would* kill them, and I'd probably shoot them in the stomach instead of the head to make it slow. Which is one (of a few) reasons that I could never be in the armed forces.

What I'm saying is, that no matter how personally justified and understandable the action was, it can't go unpunished, because of the wider implications of freely allowing soldiers to make executive decisions against the chain of command, and the disorder and chaos that would follow. You get that, surely?

I'm not saying he should be flayed alive, I'm not even saying that he should be charged with murder and jailed... but I do think he should be discharged. Because he is a soldier. Who executed a prisoner without orders or permission to do so. Simple as that.

[DemolitionRed]

But Y.Winter is an Israeli and you are Jewish Livia and so you are bound to have a bias.

Can you see both the Jewish and the Arab side to this story?

I'm not a Jew or a Muslim; in fact I think all religeon is a nonsense so this is how I view the Israli army.... For too long, in fact since 29th November 1947 the day that the United Nations accepted the resolution to patrician Palestine to a Jewish state and an Arab state; the Isralis along with help from the West are responsible for massive ethnic cleansing.

[Livia]

I'm not for a moment saying I don't understand why it happens, if someone killed a friend of mine there's no doubt in my mind that I *would* kill them, and I'd probably shoot them in the stomach instead of the head to make it slow. Which is one (of a few) reasons that I could never be in the armed forces.

What I'm saying is, that no matter how personally justified and understandable the action was, it can't go unpunished, because of the wider implications of freely allowing soldiers to make executive decisions against the chain of command, and the disorder and chaos that would follow. You get that, surely?

I'm not saying he should be flayed alive, I'm not even saying that he should be charged with murder and jailed... but I do think he should be discharged. Because he is a soldier. Who executed a prisoner without orders or permission to do so. Simple as that.

It can't go unpunished for some. For others... it's carte blanche, it seems. We have to be understanding of the struggle of the terrorist... we have to keep the denial going.

Soldiers are human beings, they are not automatons. If a punishment is to be handed out it should be done within the Military.

If I could find the person who set the bomb that killed my husband, I would be happy to watch him incapacitated and then shot in the head.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the terrorist tried to stab his colleague and so was terminated. Time to pardon the soldier and move on.

[Livia]

But Y.Winter is an Israeli and you are Jewish Livia and so you are bound to have a bias.

Can you see both the Jewish and the Arab side to this story?

I'm not a Jew or a Muslim; in fact I think all religeon is a nonsense so this is how I view the Israli army.... For too long, in fact since 29th November 1947 the day that the United Nations accepted the resolution to patrician Palestine to a Jewish state and an Arab state; the Isralis along with help from the West are responsible for massive ethnic cleansing.

I am Jewish, and I work in Israel a lot. yes I have a certain amount of bias, but mostly because I know the truth of what goes on there, in Israel and in Palestine. You've asked me before if I've seen it from the Palestinian side and the answer is still yes.

[Livia]

B............For too long, in fact since 29th November 1947 the day that the United Nations accepted the resolution to patrician Palestine to a Jewish state and an Arab state; the Isralis along with help from the West are responsible for massive ethnic cleansing.

Israel didn't just happen in 1947. The thought of going home to Israel was what kept some people alive during the Holocaust and it makes me laugh to think people imagine that Jews wouldn't have gone to Israel if it wasn't for the Mandate. Jews were always going to return to Israel.

But anyway, that isn't what this is about.

[user104658]

It can't go unpunished for some. For others... it's carte blanche, it seems. We have to be understanding of the struggle of the terrorist... we have to keep the denial going.

Soldiers are human beings, they are not automatons. If a punishment is to be handed out it should be done within the Military.

If I could find the person who set the bomb that killed my husband, I would be happy to watch him incapacitated and then shot in the head.

It isn't carte blanche and again it isn't even about the moral justifications for the action, it's about modern military powers maintaining order and discipline within their ranks. Your argument is that because an undisciplined, disorganised, primitive and barbaric guerilla-style military wouldn't think twice about killing an unarmed soldier, it should be open season for the militaries of supposedly more civilised countries to disregard the chain of command at will and do whatever they want, motivated by snap judgements and emotions, rather than their learned rules of engagement? Like I said, I'm not saying he should necessarily be "punished" in terms of being branded a murderer or put in jail... but a soldier who has lost control to that extent should clearly not be a soldier any more, for one, and again - more importantly - the message has to be sent to other soldiers that they can't carry out actions like this without fear of consequences. It sets an extremely dangerous precedent.

[y.winter]

Yes, I had full disclosure at the end of my post. I might be biased, yet I'm far more knowledgeable when it comes to this issue probably more than someone from the UK (vice versa you, British current affairs and I).
Not qualifying a dangerous men with a knife going in for the kill and stabbing as a terrorist just because the BBC said so - I find it disturbing not less than my biased opinion.

[Kizzy]

Israel didn't just happen in 1947. The thought of going home to Israel was what kept some people alive during the Holocaust and it makes me laugh to think people imagine that Jews wouldn't have gone to Israel if it wasn't for the Mandate. Jews were always going to return to Israel.

But anyway, that isn't what this is about.

But that was a different generation, should they not just get over it?

If they had have gone back to usurp those living there without a mandate it wold have just been genocide.

[user104658]

If they had have gone back to usurp those living there without a mandate it would have just been genocide.

If they had gone back to usurp those living there without the support of other major Western powers, they wouldn't have gotten a foot in the door :think:.

[DemolitionRed]

Israel didn't just happen in 1947. The thought of going home to Israel was what kept some people alive during the Holocaust and it makes me laugh to think people imagine that Jews wouldn't have gone to Israel if it wasn't for the Mandate. Jews were always going to return to Israel.

But anyway, that isn't what this is about.

Why not? its all to do with this.

I'm well aware that conflicts have gone on for thousands of years but I'm also aware of the day that the United Nations accepted the resolution to patrician Palestine to a Jewish state and an Arab state was the cause of what we are witnessing today. It was such a ridiculous resolution because the UN decided to give the biggest portion of land to the smaller community (The Jews) and the smaller portion of land to the larger community (The Arabs) and then the West said and are still saying, “It’s the Arabs fault because they didn’t accept the partition plan”.

You say that the Jewish people wanted to go home but it was to a home they had never been to in a land they weren't born in and this was all based on their religeous belief. If we talk about the right of return then it has to work both ways, meaning it has to work for Palestinains as well as Israellis but instead the Palestiniains had their keys removed and their houses turned to rubble, whilst we, the West cheered on.

[Tom4784]

Says a man who has never been in a war zone, let alone on active service, but is insisting on a code of conduct from our troops, which they can never lapse from, despite circumstances and who are serving in an active war zone. You see a couple of mates with their legs blown off you're not going to be that concerned about shooting a terrorist in the head. A terrorist. Not a bystander.

There is nothing more dangerous than a wounded enemy.

Neither have you from what I know so does that mean we should discount what you have to say as well? It's a silly and lazy argument that's designed to discount opinions that someone can't argue against.

TS has the right of it, it doesn't matter who the killed party was. All that matters is that they were apprehended. Killing someone in combat situations is fine but executing them without due course when they've been detained is not and the court obviously agrees.

You can't have soldiers that act out like that, order must be maintained within the troops or it all falls apart, you don't need battlefield experience to understand that.

[Beso]

Yes, I had full disclosure at the end of my post. I might be biased, yet I'm far more knowledgeable when it comes to this issue probably more than someone from the UK (vice versa you, British current affairs and I).
Not qualifying a dangerous men with a knife going in for the kill and stabbing as a terrorist just because the BBC said so - I find it disturbing not less than my biased opinion.


Thats the crux of it though. All i have to go on is a video and the reporting by all news channels..none of which deacribed the original attacker as a terrorist..he could have had mental issues for all i know. So i can only use the sources at hand and describe the assailant as those sources describe him.

I do emphasise with people and how it obvioisly is an issue closer to their hearts than mine, but i can only comment on what i see and in my opinion what i saw was a cold blooded murder.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Neither have you from what I know so does that mean we should discount what you have to say as well? It's a silly and lazy argument that's designed to discount opinions that someone can't argue against.

TS has the right of it, it doesn't matter who the killed party was. All that matters is that they were apprehended. Killing someone in combat situations is fine but executing them without due course when they've been detained is not and the court obviously agrees.

You can't have soldiers that act out like that, order must be maintained within the troops or it all falls apart, you don't need battlefield experience to understand that.

for all you know the perp could have been about to get up and attack and so the soldier terminated him before he could do that, that is what he is trained to do - to see potential threat before joe public does

[Tom4784]

for all you know the perp could have been about to get up and attack and so the soldier terminated him before he could do that, that is what he is trained to do - to see potential threat before joe public does

Except that the court, who had all the facts, threw that idea out. You can't justify actions with events that didn't happen. Imagination doesn't overcome facts, no matter how hard you try LT.

[Beso]

for all you know the perp could have been about to get up and attack and so the soldier terminated him before he could do that, that is what he is trained to do - to see potential threat before joe public does

That would work uf he hadnt spent the last 15 mins in the back of an ambulance with his injured partner before walking out and calmly handing his helmet to another soldier before cocking his gun taking aim and firing...you would think some of the ten plus soldiers milling around feet from the assailant would have made sure all was neutrelized...surely!!

[user104658]

for all you know the perp could have been about to get up and attack and so the soldier terminated him before he could do that, that is what he is trained to do - to see potential threat before joe public does

The video is pretty unambiguous. As usual, you already know that though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The video is pretty unambiguous. As usual, you already know that though.

where is the video of the shooting I can only find news report ones?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ok i found it. Good job that soldier killing a terrorist, he should be rewarded not imprisoned

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu said he supported a pardon for a soldier who was convicted of manslaughter on Wednesday for fatally shooting a wounded Palestinian assailant.

"I support a pardon for Elor Azaria," he said.

“This is a difficult and painful day for all of us, and first and formost for Elor and his family, for IDF soldiers, for many soldiers and for the parents of our soldiers, and me among them.

"We have one army, which is the basis of our existence. The soldiers of the IDF are our sons and daughters, and they need to remain above dispute.”

:clap1:

http://www.middleeasteye.net/news/verdict-due-israeli-who-shot-prone-palestinian-1161042616

[Beso]

There you go..even the head honcho in israel doesn't describe him as a terrorist.

[y.winter]

All i have to go on is a video and the reporting by all news channels..none of which deacribed the original attacker as a terrorist..he could have had mental issues for all i know. So i can only use the sources at hand and describe the assailant as those sources describe him.

And that's why seeing the full picture is crucial. Do a research. There are facts out there and they are more than "Israeli soldier killed a Palestinian man".
I say things that I know and live on daily basis and I'm not on auto-bias mode.

Not long ago (2016 in fact) we had a couple of crazy months where every day a Palestinian took a knife and stabbed people on the streets, on the bus, on the train station, in a bar, breaking into their houses and slaughtering entire families while they were asleep. Just like this.
So it doesn't come to us as a surprise when a Palestinian and a knife make it to the headlines. Sorry to burst the bubble, mental issues weren't part of it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And that's why seeing the full picture is crucial. Do a research. There are facts out there and they are more than "Israeli soldier killed a Palestinian man".
I say things that I know and live on daily basis and I'm not on auto-bias mode.

Not long ago (2016 in fact) we had a couple of crazy months where every day a Palestinian took a knife and stabbed people on the streets, on the bus, on the train station, in a bar, breaking into their houses and slaughtering entire families while they were asleep. Just like this.
So it doesn't come to us as a surprise when a Palestinian and a knife make it to the headlines. Sorry to burst the bubble, mental issues weren't part of it.

and i have posted videos of such attacks on here and Livia has discussed them too

[y.winter]

There you go..even the head honcho in israel doesn't describe him as a terrorist.
No, he didn't. It's not the PM's quote, it's the newspaper's description.

[Livia]

But that was a different generation, should they not just get over it?

If they had have gone back to usurp those living there without a mandate it wold have just been genocide.

I wondered how long it would take you to drop into and "Israel" thread and quote one of my posts.

[Beso]

And that's why seeing the full picture is crucial. Do a research. There are facts out there and they are more than "Israeli soldier killed a Palestinian man".
I say things that I know and live on daily basis and I'm not on auto-bias mode.

Not long ago (2016 in fact) we had a couple of crazy months where every day a Palestinian took a knife and stabbed people on the streets, on the bus, on the train station, in a bar, breaking into their houses and slaughtering entire families while they were asleep. Just like this.
So it doesn't come to us as a surprise when a Palestinian and a knife make it to the headlines. Sorry to burst the bubble, mental issues weren't part of it.

None of that has anything to do with my argument. Did this dead palastinian do all that?
Is all that any worse than soldiers firing live rounds at kids throwing stones? We all saw how that can end through the lens of a dead cameraman hugging a shot kid before he himself was blasted of the face of the earth as he lay desperate and helpless..an innocent man this time.

I find it amazing and diagusting that this is the first time a soldier in uniform has been brought to justice for his crimes.


Anyway.. I am not really on about the past, i'm on about this one particular event which for me shows a.soldier in uniform kill an unarmed and neatrolized assailant...

I assume you agreed with all the attrocities carried out by US GI's in vietnam, or is that a stupid thing to say!

[Beso]

No, he didn't. It's not the PM's quote, it's the newspaper's description.

They quote him and there is no word of terrorist...so until you quote him saying terrorist i will stick by what i said.

[Livia]

Neither have you from what I know so does that mean we should discount what you have to say as well? It's a silly and lazy argument that's designed to discount opinions that someone can't argue against.

TS has the right of it, it doesn't matter who the killed party was. All that matters is that they were apprehended. Killing someone in combat situations is fine but executing them without due course when they've been detained is not and the court obviously agrees.

You can't have soldiers that act out like that, order must be maintained within the troops or it all falls apart, you don't need battlefield experience to understand that.

Actually, I have been in several war zones, although I was fully protected by armed guards. And I'm a military widow and that gives me some insight into it. I've worked in Israel, I've been to Palestine several times, I'vbe been to Iraq and Syria and the refugee camps in Jordan.

No one's saying people don'y have the right to say whatever they want. But I also have the right to say what I said, from a stronger, more informed position.

And as for not needing battlefield experience to understand that order must be maintained... Well, battlefield experience will teach you that soldiers are human beings with human reactions and emotions. Putting on a uniform and doing basic training doesn't make you into a robot.

[Beso]

Actually, I have been in several war zones, although I was fully protected by armed guards. And I'm a military widow and that gives me some insight into it. I've worked in Israel, I've been to Palestine several times, I'vbe been to Iraq and Syria and the refugee camps in Jordan.

No one's saying people don'y have the right to say whatever they want. But I also have the right to say what I said, from a stronger, more informed position.

And as for not needing battlefield experience to understand that order must be maintained... Well, battlefield experience will teach you that soldiers are human beings with human reactions and emotions. Putting on a uniform and doing basic training doesn't make you into a robot.

I think this one being an ex sergeant has undergone a bit more than "basic training"

[Livia]

I think this one being an ex sergeant has undergone a bit more than "basic training"

Yes. He will have seen the regular attrocities carried out daily by Palestinians that are never reported.

[Beso]

Yes. He will have seen the regular attrocities carried out daily by Palestinians that are never reported.

And he will have been trained in how to deal with that, which is why he has been tried and convicted for his crime. Maybe also the reason it was manslaughter and not the murder it should have been.

[Livia]

And he will have been trained in how to deal with that, which is why he has been tried and convicted for his crime. Maybe also the reason it was manslaughter and not the murder it should have been.

Pointless discussing this with someone who imagines they have all the answers.

[Kizzy]

Actually, I have been in several war zones, although I was fully protected by armed guards. And I'm a military widow and that gives me some insight into it. I've worked in Israel, I've been to Palestine several times, I'vbe been to Iraq and Syria and the refugee camps in Jordan.

No one's saying people don'y have the right to say whatever they want. But I also have the right to say what I said, from a stronger, more informed position.

And as for not needing battlefield experience to understand that order must be maintained... Well, battlefield experience will teach you that soldiers are human beings with human reactions and emotions. Putting on a uniform and doing basic training doesn't make you into a robot.

Nor does a uniform make you infallible or above the law, recently there has been media attention on soldiers and their part in torture and killings deemed unlawful.
Personally I don't agree with that as I don't believe their actions were not ordered, they would be nothing but scapegoats if there were any repercussions.

[y.winter]

None of that has anything to do with my argument. Did this dead palastinian do all that?
Is all that any worse than soldiers firing live rounds at kids throwing stones? We all saw how that can end through the lens of a dead cameraman hugging a shot kid before he himself was blasted of the face of the earth as he lay desperate and helpless..an innocent man this time.

I find it amazing and diagusting that this is the first time a soldier in uniform has been brought to justice for his crimes.


Anyway.. I am not really on about the past, i'm on about this one particular event which for me shows a.soldier in uniform kill an unarmed and neatrolized assailant...

I assume you agreed with all the attrocities carried out by US GI's in vietnam, or is that a stupid thing to say!

My post was an answer to what I quoted which was you basically saying that you speak based about the few things you saw and read. I gave you an example of how narrow is it to base your facts when you know little.
Look, I don't care if you're for or against the Israeli soldier, you're entitled to have your opinion on that. I didn't support him either. But stating with such a great confidence that the man on the ground isn't a terrorist is what I can't understand.

They quote him and there is no word of terrorist...so until you quote him saying terrorist i will stick by what i said.

Are you out of your mind?! Do you have any idea of how long does the whole thing has been going on? Do you know how many interviews, how many statements have been released since then by the PM, the IDF, Ex-Generals etc? The Palestinian man's actions are old news, we all know his part in the event. The statement was about Elor being found guilty fgs. Are you seriously basing your facts on one statement, one of dozens, which don't even mention the Palestinian? That's it?
It's a joke.

Please define what's a terrorist, because your opinions and allegedly facts are making me worry.

[user104658]

And as for not needing battlefield experience to understand that order must be maintained... Well, battlefield experience will teach you that soldiers are human beings with human reactions and emotions. Putting on a uniform and doing basic training doesn't make you into a robot.

I genuinely don't understand your position at all... no, they are not robots, people snap but it can't simply be brushed under the carpet without consequence without essentially abandoning discipline and order, allowing soldiers to do whatever the **** they want in a war zone, and going down a path which will definitely result in those very same soldiers being at increased risk... because they're surrounded by loose cannons who are not following the rules or their orders.

How is any of this in any way positive?

Modern militaries are highly structured, highly organised, and have a very clear chain of command. For a REASON. Because it is effective, efficient, and helps to keep people, both civilians and soldiers, safer.

But yeah why not. Let's just arm them to the teeth and let them go at it like Rambo, because they're only human after all, and because terrorism. It'll be fine.

[Livia]

Nor does a uniform make you infallible or above the law, recently there has been media attention on soldiers and their part in torture and killings deemed unlawful.
Personally I don't agree with that as I don't believe their actions were not ordered, they would be nothing but scapegoats if there were any repercussions.

yeah, well... I'm sure like everything else, you think you're right.

[Livia]

I genuinely don't understand your position at all... no, they are not robots, people snap but it can't simply be brushed under the carpet without consequence without essentially abandoning discipline and order, allowing soldiers to do whatever the **** they want in a war zone, and going down a path which will definitely result in those very same soldiers being at increased risk... because they're surrounded by loose cannons who are not following the rules or their orders.

How is any of this in any way positive?

Modern militaries are highly structured, highly organised, and have a very clear chain of command. For a REASON. Because it is effective, efficient, and helps to keep people, both civilians and soldiers, safer.

But yeah why not. Let's just arm them to the teeth and let them go at it like Rambo, because they're only human after all, and because terrorism. It'll be fine.

No, you clearly don't.

[Beso]

Pointless discussing this with someone who imagines they have all the answers.

What i do know is you dont judge a man on the actions of others.

You are the one excusing his actions because of past events like they are all the answers..so we will leave it there eh..

[Beso]

My post was an answer to what I quoted which was you basically saying that you speak based about the few things you saw and read. I gave you an example of how narrow is it to base your facts when you know little.
Look, I don't care if you're for or against the Israeli soldier, you're entitled to have your opinion on that. I didn't support him either. But stating with such a great confidence that the man on the ground isn't a terrorist is what I can't understand.



Are you out of your mind?! Do you have any idea of how long does the whole thing has been going on? Do you know how many interviews, how many statements have been released since then by the PM, the IDF, Ex-Generals etc? The Palestinian man's actions are old news, we all know his part in the event. The statement was about Elor being found guilty fgs. Are you seriously basing your facts on one statement, one of dozens, which don't even mention the Palestinian? That's it?
It's a joke.

Please define what's a terrorist, because your opinions and allegedly facts are making me worry.

I would probably class the dead palestinian as a freedom fighter, someone who believes they have had 1000 of years of history were just taken away from them..i know i would fight back. Maybe not like he did, but i would somehow..wouldnt you?

The court has obviously disregarded the terrorist angle or im sure it would have been mentioned somewhere..it hasn't..so yeah sorry..to me he was a freedom fighter.

[Livia]

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

[Livia]

What i do know is you dont judge a man on the actions of others.

You are the one excusing his actions because of past events like they are all the answers..so we will leave it there eh..

Actually, I am looking at it from a miliary angle and with extensive experience of the problems in Israel, including the back history of this incident. You're looking at it after reading the edited story on the Internet.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The recent series of attacks against Israelis is the direct result of incitement by radical Islamist and terrorist elements, calling on Palestinian youth to murder Jews. ​​

Fifteen months of terror – 13 September 2015 to the present

Since 13 September 2015, 42 people have been killed in terrorist attacks and 602 people (including 4 Palestinians) injured.
There have been 167 stabbing attacks and 89 attempted stabbings; 116 shootings; 48 vehicular (ramming) attacks; and one vehicle (bus) bombing

According to the Meir Amit Intelligence and Terrorism Information Center (ITIC), beginning in September 2015, there has been a wave of terrorist attacks which began on the Temple Mount and in east Jerusalem. The attacks later spread to Judea and Samaria and even crossed the Green Line into Israel under the battle cry of "Al-Aqsa mosque is in danger."
The current wave of terrorist attacks is part of the PA's strategy of "popular resistance" (i.e., popular terrorism) adopted by the PA and Fatah at the Sixth Fatah conference in August 2009. Statements by Fatah, Hamas and PIJ spokespersons have described the attacks as "heroic actions" and "the natural response to Israel's crimes".

http://mfa.gov.il/MFA/ForeignPolicy/Terrorism/Palestinian/Pages/Wave-of-terror-October-2015.aspx


who would be an Israeli soldier?

[Beso]

Actually, I am looking at it from a miliary angle and with extensive experience of the problems in Israel, including the back history of this incident. You're looking at it after reading the edited story on the Internet.

No, im looking at it from the verdict made by a millitary court and my disgust at the crime he was found guilty of by that military court after i viewed the video a few times for myself.most worrying is the time between the stabbing and the final shooting..

[Livia]

No, im looking at it from the verdict made by a millitary court and my disgust at the crime he was found guilty of by that military court after i viewed the video a few times for myself.most worrying is the time between the stabbing and the final shooting..

You know, if I were you, I'd find something more worthy to worry about.

[y.winter]

I would probably class the dead palestinian as a freedom fighter, someone who believes they have had 1000 of years of history were just taken away from them..i know i would fight back. Maybe not like he did, but i would somehow..wouldnt you?

Killing helpless man on the ground = murderer!!!
(Attempt of) Killing a soldier standing = freedom fighter!
How romantic. Sprinkle some glitter on it to increase the level of cuteness.

The court has obviously disregarded the terrorist angle or im sure it would have been mentioned somewhere..it hasn't..so yeah sorry..to me he was a freedom fighter.

Did you read the verdict for being (again) so confident of your assumptions. Sorry, I mean facts. Does it go by the same rule of parmnion didn't read it = it didn't happen/not true. Weird logic.

[user104658]

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

You do realise that that phrase is usually said with the intention of understanding the motivations of terrorists... right?

[Beso]

You know, if I were you, I'd find something more worthy to worry about.

But you are not me are you.

Stop trying to belittle my opinion livia. We have all suffered in life but it doesnt make ones point of view more relevent than others..how about addressing the attrocities carried out by the jewish isàraelis for a change..like the ones ive mentioned about the boy and cameraman...cause they wern't terrorists yet both ended up dead at the hands of israeli soldiers.

[Beso]

Killing helpless man on the ground = murderer!!!
(Attempt of) Killing a soldier standing = freedom fighter!
How romantic. Sprinkle some glitter on it to increase the level of cuteness.



Did you read the verdict for being (again) so confident of your assumptions. Sorry, I mean facts. Does it go by the same rule of parmnion didn't read it = it didn't happen/not true. Weird logic.

Put up a quote then from the verdict...not all of it, just the part about the man being a terrorist..save your time pal cause you wont find it

[Beso]

Oh and i never claim my opinion ia fact...if i do i usually put FACT next to it..or if i am trying to sway someone i dont accuse them of not gaining all the facts i usually show them the bit of info missing from their point of view..so ywinter..no, i am not going to read the verdict as it took the court 12 hours to read it out but i can assume that seeing as no tv station out of the 8 or 9 i have been following the story on has described the dead palastinian as a terrorist then tht same courts verdict did not describe him as such either.....

[y.winter]

Put up a quote then from the verdict...not all of it, just the part about the man being a terrorist..save your time pal cause you wont find it

Again, so confident. Also: pigs with wings exist. Prove me wrong. That's your logic.

And as for the verdict, I'll happily give you one. Do you understand Hebrew?

[Kizzy]

But you are not me are you.

Stop trying to belittle my opinion livia. We have all suffered in life but it doesnt make ones point of view more relevent than others..how about addressing the attrocities carried out by the jewish isàraelis for a change..like the ones ive mentioned about the boy and cameraman...cause they wern't terrorists yet both ended up dead at the hands of israeli soldiers.

Well said I agree, it's not nice to feel you are being railroaded from a thread we can't all have direct experience of every topic we discuss here.
It's a valid point that uniforms are not a licence to kill.

[y.winter]

Oh, you already gave up. never mind.

[Beso]

Oh, you already gave up. never mind.

Gave up on what?

I still think it should have been murder and not manslaughter...terrorist, civillian..donald fu king duck..in my opinion he should have been done for murder...not sure how or why you claim victory just cause you think pigs have wings ffs.

Very confusing..:shrug:

[DemolitionRed]

One man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist.

Exactly and so all of those Israelis fighting for more land are terrorists to the Palestinians and all those Palestinians fighting back (without the privilege of an army) are terrorists to Israel.

It takes at least two sides to fight a war.

[Josy]

Stick to the topic in here, that means stop discussing each other ;)

[y.winter]

OK, as you wish.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/israel-soldier-elor-azaria-verdict-170104051749543.html
In delivering her verdict, Colonel Maya Heller systematically rejected all of Azaria's defence arguments, saying "the fact that the man on the ground was a terrorist does not justify a disproportionate response".
Even the guys at Aljazeera don't mind quoting it from the verdict.

[Beso]

OK, as you wish.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/israel-soldier-elor-azaria-verdict-170104051749543.html

Even the guys at Aljazeera don't mind quoting it from the verdict.

Cheers i will call him a terrorist from now on.

Should still have been a murder conviction though...funny though cause i have been sitring with al jazeera on for about 3 hours now and they have always said shooting dead a palastinian man each and every time its been reported..

[Kizzy]

OK, as you wish.

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/01/israel-soldier-elor-azaria-verdict-170104051749543.html

Even the guys at Aljazeera don't mind quoting it from the verdict.


"Israel's political leadership has also swayed with the majority," Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons, reporting from Tel Aviv, said.

"Avigdor Lieberman actively campaigned in support of Azaria and he has since been appointed defence minister by Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister."

Naftali Bennett, the education minister and a member of Israel's far-right Jewish Home party, said before the verdict that the soldier should be pardoned if found guilty.

"That is whipping up a lot of reactions," Simmons said. "There is a split in the Israeli public opinion on how army should act in [attack] situations. In the majority are those who feel that 'terrorists' who attack Israeli soldiers are fair targets."

In a memorandum sent to the Israeli authorities in September 2016, human rights group Amnesty International highlighted at least 20 cases of apparently unlawful killings of Palestinians by Israeli forces. In at least 15 of these cases those killed were deliberately shot dead, despite posing no imminent threat to life.

Since October 2015, Israeli soldiers and settlers have been responsible for the killing of at least 244 Palestinians, including unarmed demonstrators, bystanders and alleged attackers in an upsurge in violence.

'Terrorists' are people who don't belong to a terrorist organisation terrorists? If they are by the same token should the guy who attacked Jo Cox not be called terrorist, if it's for a political cause against establishment figures?

[Brother Leon]

Out of interest, if Hezbollah captured an Israeli soldier and then killed him when he was apprehended, would it be understandable? You know, seeing as they would have deemed him a terrorist and all.

[DemolitionRed]

Out of interest, if Hezbollah captured an Israeli soldier and then killed him when he was apprehended, would it be understandable? You know, seeing as they would have seemed him a terrorist and all.

eh?

[Crimson Dynamo]

"Israel's political leadership has also swayed with the majority," Al Jazeera's Andrew Simmons, reporting from Tel Aviv, said.

"Avigdor Lieberman actively campaigned in support of Azaria and he has since been appointed defence minister by Benjamin Netanyahu, the prime minister."

Naftali Bennett, the education minister and a member of Israel's far-right Jewish Home party, said before the verdict that the soldier should be pardoned if found guilty.

"That is whipping up a lot of reactions," Simmons said. "There is a split in the Israeli public opinion on how army should act in [attack] situations. In the majority are those who feel that 'terrorists' who attack Israeli soldiers are fair targets."

In a memorandum sent to the Israeli authorities in September 2016, human rights group Amnesty International highlighted at least 20 cases of apparently unlawful killings of Palestinians by Israeli forces. In at least 15 of these cases those killed were deliberately shot dead, despite posing no imminent threat to life.

Since October 2015, Israeli soldiers and settlers have been responsible for the killing of at least 244 Palestinians, including unarmed demonstrators, bystanders and alleged attackers in an upsurge in violence.

'Terrorists' are people who don't belong to a terrorist organisation terrorists? If they are by the same token should the guy who attacked Jo Cox not be called terrorist, if it's for a political cause against establishment figures?

what are you linking too?

[DemolitionRed]

The link in the quote above what was said.

[Kizzy]

what are you linking too?

The article in the quote in my post.

[Beso]

In a memorandum sent to the Israeli authorities in September 2016, human rights group Amnesty International highlighted at least 20 cases of apparently unlawful killings of Palestinians by Israeli forces. In at least 15 of these cases those killed were deliberately shot dead, despite posing no imminent threat to life.



Shocking statistic.

[Kizzy]

Don't worry its not restricted to overseas.

Britain remains under the scrutiny of the International Criminal Court (ICC), which is conducting a preliminary examination of allegations of war crimes by British forces in Iraq.

The ICC is looking at more than 1,200 cases of alleged ill-treatment and unlawful killing – including almost 50 Iraqis who reportedly died in British custody.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/british-soldiers-could-face-prosecution-for-crimes-committed-during-iraq-conflict-investigators-a6793271.html

[Tom4784]

Actually, I have been in several war zones, although I was fully protected by armed guards. And I'm a military widow and that gives me some insight into it. I've worked in Israel, I've been to Palestine several times, I'vbe been to Iraq and Syria and the refugee camps in Jordan.

No one's saying people don'y have the right to say whatever they want. But I also have the right to say what I said, from a stronger, more informed position.

And as for not needing battlefield experience to understand that order must be maintained... Well, battlefield experience will teach you that soldiers are human beings with human reactions and emotions. Putting on a uniform and doing basic training doesn't make you into a robot.

You don't need experience to understand that it's wrong to kill anyone that's been detained without due course. You can focus on the Palestinian all you want but that's not going to change the facts of the case or that the soldier was in the wrong for killing a captured enemy. The identity of the enemy doesn't change a thing.

People make mistakes but choosing to execute someone isn't a mistake, it's a decision. He chose to defy orders and protocol in an environment that doing so could get himself and others killed. There are plenty of Israeli soldiers and soldiers in other armies across the world that deal with terrible situations yet are capable of of following the rules of engagement and protocols when it comes to dealing with captured enemies, they too are human so I disagree with your argument since downplaying this soldier's actions is disrespectful to other soldiers who act appropriately. All soldiers are human and it's not an excuse for choosing to execute a captured enemy because most soldiers would not do that.

Soldiers that act rashly and defy orders are a danger to everyone and they should not be blindly defended just 'cus.

I do suspect that if the facts of the case were the same yet the roles were reversed, you'd be calling for the blood of the Palestinian soldier for executing an Israeli prisoner.

[Kizzy]

You don't need experience to understand that it's wrong to kill anyone that's been detained without due course. You can focus on the Palestinian all you want but that's not going to change the facts of the case or that the soldier was in the wrong for killing a captured enemy. The identity of the enemy doesn't change a thing.

People make mistakes but choosing to execute someone isn't a mistake, it's a decision. He chose to defy orders and protocol in an environment that doing so could get himself and others killed. There are plenty of Israeli soldiers and soldiers in other armies across the world that deal with terrible situations yet are capable of of following the rules of engagement and protocols when it comes to dealing with captured enemies, they too are human so I disagree with your argument since downplaying this soldier's actions is disrespectful to other soldiers who act appropriately. All soldiers are human and it's not an excuse for choosing to execute a captured enemy because most soldiers would not do that.

Soldiers that act rashly and defy orders are a danger to everyone and they should not be blindly defended just 'cus.

I do suspect that if the facts of the case were the same yet the roles were reversed, you'd be calling for the blood of the Palestinian soldier for executing an Israeli prisoner.

:clap1: :clap1:

[Crimson Dynamo]

You don't need experience to understand that it's wrong to kill anyone that's been detained without due course. You can focus on the Palestinian all you want but that's not going to change the facts of the case or that the soldier was in the wrong for killing a captured enemy. The identity of the enemy doesn't change a thing.

People make mistakes but choosing to execute someone isn't a mistake, it's a decision. He chose to defy orders and protocol in an environment that doing so could get himself and others killed. There are plenty of Israeli soldiers and soldiers in other armies across the world that deal with terrible situations yet are capable of of following the rules of engagement and protocols when it comes to dealing with captured enemies, they too are human so I disagree with your argument since downplaying this soldier's actions is disrespectful to other soldiers who act appropriately. All soldiers are human and it's not an excuse for choosing to execute a captured enemy because most soldiers would not do that.

Soldiers that act rashly and defy orders are a danger to everyone and they should not be blindly defended just 'cus.

I do suspect that if the facts of the case were the same yet the roles were reversed, you'd be calling for the blood of the Palestinian soldier for executing an Israeli prisoner.

and you think jailing a 19 year old boy for 20 years solves the problem how?

[Tom4784]

and you think jailing a 19 year old boy for 20 years solves the problem how?

He killed someone unlawfully, he committed a crime. There's not much else to say on the matter, also not sure how you can solve a problem of a dead prisoner unless you have the cure for death. Good luck with that?

His age has no bearing on anything, he had the same training as everyone else yet they aren't killing prisoners. He did not make a mistake during an engagement, he CHOSE to kill a captured enemy when they posed no threat to him. Like I said before, this was not a mistake, it was a decision.

Mentioning his age is just another desperate attempt to take focus of the facts of the case. It's pretty open and shut in all honesty.

[Crimson Dynamo]

hopefully Israel will pardon this brave soldier and focus on killing vile terrorists like the one who was rightfully terminated before he could kill again

[DemolitionRed]

hopefully Israel will pardon this brave soldier and focus on killing vile terrorists like the one who was rightfully terminated before he could kill again

This dead man was a terrorist to the Israelis but keep in mind, the Palestinians have no armies, just freedom fighters. They don't have cluster bombs, just knives and they don't have full support from the West like the Israelis do.

My father in law is a Jew and he feels nothing but shame for whats gone on. Fortunately there are still many Jews who don't rally to the cries of Israel and he's one of them.

[Brillopad]

This dead man was a terrorist to the Israelis but keep in mind, the Palestinians have no armies, just freedom fighters. They don't have cluster bombs, just knives and they don't have full support from the West like the Israelis do.

My father in law is a Jew and he feels nothing but shame for whats gone on. Fortunately there are still many Jews who don't rally to the cries of Israel and he's one of them.

He was a terrorist. Trying to use dress-up language such as 'freedom'fighters' doesn't change that.

[Tom4784]

Fixating on the murdered party's identity means that you're missing the entire point of the case.

[DemolitionRed]

He was a terrorist. Trying to use dress-up language such as 'freedom'fighters' doesn't change that.

Brillo, what do you think about the Arabs cause in Palestine? Keep in mind that a lot of those Arabs/Palastinians are Christians.

Bethlehem was the birth place of Christianity but Christians, just like Muslims, have been massively persecuted by the Israelis.