Zoo Must Kill This Bear (Press report, poll & discussion)

[Mrluvaluva]

An animal rights activist has been condemned for suggesting that an abandoned polar bear cub should be killed instead of being raised by humans.

Knut was born in Berlin Zoo last December but his mother ignored him and his brother, who later died.

Activist Frank Albrecht was quoted in the Bild newspaper, which has run photo spreads of the little bear, as saying: "Feeding by hand is not species-appropriate but a gross violation of animal protection laws.

"The zoo must kill the bear."

The comments were quickly condemned by the zoo, politicians and other animal rights groups.

"The killing of an animal has nothing to do with animal protection," said Wolfgang Apel, head of the German Federation for the Protection of Animals.

Mr Albrecht has claimed he was quoted out of context.

He explained that although he thought it was wrong of the zoo to have saved the cub's life, now that the bear can live on his own, it would be equally wrong to kill him.

"If a polar bear mother rejected the baby, then I believe the zoo must follow the instincts of nature," Mr Albrecht said.

"In the wild, it would have been left to die."

Other activists have claimed that current treatment of the cub is inhumane and could lead to future difficulties interacting with fellow polar bears.

But Berlin Zoo's vet, Andre Schuele, who is looking after Knut, disagrees.

He said: "These criticisms make me angry, but you can't take them so seriously. Polar bears live alone in the wild; I see no logical reason why this bear should be killed."

He also argued that given the increased rarity of polar bears in the wild, it makes sense to keep them alive in captivity so that they can be bred.

What do you think? Should the bear be killed?

[Ella]

NOOOOO! They can't kill it that's just evil! :sad::mad::sad::mad:

[GiRTh]

Top it.

[Ella]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Top it.

:shocked::shocked::sad::sad:

[Sunny_01]

That would be just awful - how can they claim to be all for animal rights and then condem that poor animal to die. Rather it be raised in captivity and live than be sent to die

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Ella
Originally posted by GiRTh
Top it.

:shocked::shocked::sad::sad: What's wrong?

[Ella]

You want the bear to be killed!

Girth thats mean!

[GiRTh]

Originally posted by Ella
You want the bear to be killed!

Girth thats mean! Nature is mean Els. Who was it who made that quote about natures beauty and cruelty in the raw.

[Ella]

But the bear doesn't need to be killed.
Thats inhumane and just evil!

Thats like me having a baby and not wanting to keep it and saying 'ahhh just kill it!' Its wrong and evil evil evil!

[Ruth]

Personally I don't think the bear should be killed. But I wonder if people would care so much if it wasn't all cute and fluffy? What about if it was a really ugly looking creature?

[Bells]

Fair enough that in the wild it would've been left to be killed, but I reckon that now that we've been given the opportunity to not kill it and perhaps help, that definitely seems the better option!

And Ruth, even if it was an ugly-looking creature the same would apply although I understand what you mean about people being all 'aww' just because the bear is cute. I've never believed in giving my views on factors such as that however. On another note, if the animal was perhaps dangerous then the necessary precautions should be taken to make sure that it doesn't harm anyone yet it isn't harmed itself (depending on the animal and the level of danger). For this bear in question though, I don't think it should be killed.

[Ruth]

I should explain that I wasn't really referring to anyone on here btw in my last post!

[Bells]

^^^ That's fine Ruth lol. I personally did realise that and gave my views accordingly. :bigsmile:

[Emilee]

Thats just inhumane!!!!!
Murders!

[GlitterEyes]

I think killing a perfectly healthy bear is wrong.

[Sunny_01]

I can not see any reasonable argument to kill this poor animal. I hear what you are saying Ruth and to be honest not sure how people would feel if it wasnt cute, but the fact is it is cute and we have gut reactions based on this particular animal. I think that killing an already endangered species would be ciminal.

[Ruth]

Yeah I know Sunny, and I certainly wasn't meaning anyone on this thread!

I agree - it is wrong to put down a perfectly healthy bear.

[Sunny_01]

I know you werent Ruth I kind of thought it was a general question rather than a direct one at the FM's :banana:

[GiRTh]

Ami the only one who voted to top it?

[Sunny_01]

Originally posted by GiRTh
Ami the only one who voted to top it?

Think so :devil:

[Lauren]

Noooo, it's perfectly healthy. It should be given a chance at life.

[Ruth*Star]

Killing a perfectly healthy animal sick, too evil. A animal rights acitivist, Rights, does'nt that mean the right to live.

[andybigbro]

NO!!! they shouldt Kill the bear :sad:

[Ruth]

It does worry me though, what kind of life will the bear have?

[Dr43%er]

It depends on how it is going to live the rest of it's life. Now I am no animal activist or rights person but if it is going to live its life like the polar bear I saw at Tallinn zoo in Estonia then pop a cap in it's furry white ass now. Genuinely, I have seen students with bigger digs than the bear had. It's cage was about 20 x 10 foot. that's about 6 x 3 meters for you metric lot. It did not have enough head room to stand up on it's rear legs fully. It was just walking round and round and round...... awful. It did upset me and I am not like that.

[Sunny_01]

I understand where you are coming from Dr - I was at Osnabruck Zoo many a moon ago now and I have to say some of the enclosures left a lot to be desired. However the polar bears had a great enclosure! One cage (thats the only way to describe it) had a poor black panther in and all it did was go round and round in a circle, poor animal was obviously out of its mind. I can see the concerns people have about its future but with luck it will have a dandy future after all the press about it :hello:

[Chrizzle]

No!

If the bear can stay alive- let it!
Same with any animal. No healthy animal should be killed.

[Sunny_01]

I agree no healthy animal should be killed - but should a healthy animal be subjected to terrible cruelty by being locked into a cage that will not allow it to behave in a way that is normal for it. The point some are making is that yes it should live but that its environment should be very well thought out to give it the very best life it can have in captivity :cheer:

[Dr43%er]

If the polar bear I saw had the capacity to commit suicide, I belive it would have done.

[Chrizzle]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
I agree no healthy animal should be killed - but should a healthy animal be subjected to terrible cruelty by being locked into a cage that will not allow it to behave in a way that is normal for it. The point some are making is that yes it should live but that its environment should be very well thought out to give it the very best life it can have in captivity :cheer:

No your right. I think some Zoos are terrible.
But some Zoos make their place as much like the real thing for the animal.

Im not sure wheter to be for zoos or against them.

[Princess]

God no!They can't kill him. Hes an living creature!Thats flipping murder! :cloud:

[Mrluvaluva]

[i]Originally posted by Chrizzle

Im not sure wheter to be for zoos or against them.


There are both pros and cons for zoos. On one hand, they want to protect endangered species. Man is killing animals at an alarming rate through many methods (de-forestation etc). On the other hand, animals can be kept in quite horiffic, squalid conditions in a zoo, and can live quite an unhappy life. Things need to be improved on both parts to readdress the balance.

[Sticks]

In nature it would have died

Who are we to interfere with nature?

Is that not arrogance?

[Mrluvaluva]

For man to kill it on purpose. Is that not interfering with nature?

[Sticks]

It could also be seen as correcting an earlier interference

[Mrluvaluva]

So what do you think should be done Sticks?

[Sticks]

I mearly put the opposing view point

this creature will be entirely dependent on humans, is that right?

[Lauren]

Originally posted by Sticks
this creature will be entirely dependent on humans, is that right?

True, although the realistic alternative is not to see this bear go into nature and die naturally - the alternative is to see it being used in studies and experiments, and the ethics become much more dangerous.

Of course it's not interfering with nature, we have dogs and pets and many years ago this was not what was meant to naturally occur. It's just the way of life.

[Mrluvaluva]

Of course. I was just wondering what your personal view was Sticks.

[Sticks]

Originally posted by BAZG
Of course. I was just wondering what your personal view was Sticks.

As the people calling for this are animal rights people, do they not have credentials which gives what they say more weight?:puzzled:

One assumes they know what they are talking about

[Mrluvaluva]

From Sky News

Not so cute now is he?

A few weeks ago Knut the abandoned polar bear cub was a big bundle of fluff and quite possibly the cutest animal in the world

But you wouldn't want to stick you arm into his cage now.

Time moves on and Knut is growing fast.

His keeper says the bear enjoys meat on the bone - a lot.

He weighs in at a hefty 37lbs and his snout is becoming well developed.

And like all developing adolescents, he likes to spend more time on his own away from keeper Thomas Dorflein.

Knut's teeth and claws are becoming so sharp that Thomas has to wear long sleeved shirts when he handles him.

Thomas has looked after Knut since he was abandoned and the pair have developed an incredible bond

Thomas still sleeps with the cub - for now.

But there will come a point in the near future where the keeper and cub will have to go their separate ways. Knut will become too big, too powerful and too dangerous to play with his keeper.

[Sunny_01]

He is still very cute indeed - I love polar bears they have always fascinated me so the bigger the better really :angel:

[Bells]

Thanks for posting the update!
But... well, he's obviously going to grow up isn't he, like any creature in the world. At the end of the day I still think the bear should've been saved for reasons I stated earlier in this thread. However, as to what they do with the bear now is the zoo's decision, as long as they don't kill Knut for no reason! I did mention if it was perhaps dangerous, and the level of danger (just read back) - that of course should be taken into consideration.

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
In nature it would have died

Who are we to interfere with nature?

Is that not arrogance?

Humans are part of nature and if they intervene to save a life then that is nature at work not arrogance.

By the logic of not interfering with nature it would also then be wrong to treat sick people to save life as that too is interfering with nature. Is it not!!!

[bananarama]

Originally posted by Sticks
Originally posted by BAZG
Of course. I was just wondering what your personal view was Sticks.

As the people calling for this are animal rights people, do they not have credentials which gives what they say more weight?:puzzled:

One assumes they know what they are talking about


So called experts are alway contradicting each other. So no you cannot asume the animal activists know what they are talking about

Those with beliefs seldom know what they are talking about because they are biased to whatever beliefe they are addicted to....A belief is just a belief and not a fact. If a belief becomes a fact then it is no longer a belief it is instead knowledge.......

unless we have definate knowledge then all beliefs should be taken with the greatest of caution...

There is no need to kill anything for the purpose given by the activists providing those accepting to save its life give it a tolorable existance.. Remember millions of humans on this planet don't even have that either yet we don't go around suggesting they should be killed......

[Mrluvaluva]

Update from Sky News

Knut, the young polar bear who is now famous around the world, has found a 'sole' mate in his German minder.

Thomas Doerflein has clearly bonded closely with the animal celebrity who still attracts thousands of visitors each day to his compound at Berlin Zoo.

Knut become a global sensation when he survived rejection by his mother Tosca after being born six months ago.

Knut had to be hand fed by Doerflein after Tosca refused to fulfill her maternal obligations.

Knut and a twin brother had been left exposed to freezing temperatures shortly after they were born.

His brother died so the zoo intervened to save the survivor.

It was a suggestion that the cub should be put down to stop him becoming emotionally and physically reliant on humans that put Knut and the zoo in the spotlight.

Other experts said polar bears are lonesome creatures so spending several years without the company of other bears would not be a problem.

He now weighs more than 28 kg (62lb), his snout is longer, his torso chunkier and teeth sharper.

Which could be a problem if anyone other that his keeper gets up close and personal.

Doerflein, who for months slept in Knut's enclosure to feed him milk and porridge through the night, still rolls on the ground with the cub in his twice daily shows and lets him bite his fingers.

"He's just playing and it doesn't hurt, it just pinches a bit. It only hurts when he gets angry," said Doerflein, who already has a few bruises.

Knut's recently learned how to swim and Doerflein takes him for a walk round the zoo every morning to build up his muscles.

[Mrluvaluva]

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Ella
NOOOOO! They can't kill it that's just evil! :sad::mad::sad::mad: Do you eat meat?

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Chrizzle
But some Zoos make their place as much like the real thing for the animal.
As do some prisons leyhill or barlinnie!A prison is still a prison.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
That would be just awful - how can they claim to be all for animal rights and then condem that poor animal to die. Rather it be raised in captivity and live than be sent to die I guess its one of those 60,000,000 dollar questions.Reverse it,you go and live in an alien world and obey those rules +be imprisoned.

[spitfire]

Originally posted by Sunny_01
I agree no healthy animal should be killed - but should a healthy animal be subjected to terrible cruelty by being locked into a cage that will not allow it to behave in a way that is normal for it. Great reply,would you like a leaflet.:thumbs:

[Mrluvaluva]

Knut, the orphaned polar bear cub who gained global fame, has appeared as the star of a new documentary that details the first year of his life at Berlin Zoo.

And he's grown up fast - now weighing 22 stone, with fearsome claws and fangs.

Knut Und Seine Freunde - translated as Knut And Friends - celebrated its premiere on Sunday and is to be shown in cinemas across Germany from Thursday.

Directed by Michael Johnson, the film tells how Knut was rescued in 2006 after his mother abandoned him.

It is a "behind-the-scenes look at the cub's escapades", from him being fed his first bottle to him balancing precariously on a scale.

It shows Knut rooting through a bucket of several-dozen fish - and happily taking a large bite out of each one, to his keeper's dismay.

Alongside the tale of Knut are the stories of a polar bear family in the Arctic and a pair of brown bear cubs from Belarus.

Knut was raised by hand - a move that sparked controversy as some animal rights protesters argued he should have been left to die rather than be weaned by humans.

The aggressive one-year-old polar bear now weighs more than 18 stone and no longer has direct contact with the keepers who helped raise him.


Source (http://news.sky.com/skynews/article/0,,30200-1307639,00.html)

[GiRTh]

Thats what I call a bump.

[Tom]

No. Who are we to take the life away from something that is no danger to anyone else and clearly still has a good quality of life?

[Barbie]

i can see the natures way says it has been abandoned and therefore would die but being in a zoo is against nature anyway and we are guilty of making their numbers smaller therefore we should go against nature in order to fix what we did

[bigbr0ther]

Originally posted by Ruth
Personally I don't think the bear should be killed. But I wonder if people would care so much if it wasn't all cute and fluffy? What about if it was a really ugly looking creature?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Of course an ugly creature would be allowed to live as well. Murder is wrong.