No single market

[Cherie]

But Ireland will have a special arrangement it seems :flutter: with regard to travel and work anyway

[Northern Monkey]

Theresa is going in tough.She's showing the EU that they don't have a hold over us in the negotiations.They can't just steam roll us into getting whatever they want.

[joeysteele]

Sorry but I think that is going to be bad for the UK, a bad decision but one all in the UK will have to cope with.
For Ireland, she is talking without authority.

Ireland will be bound by EU directives, she is going to have to bend consderably to get a really workable result.

Won't bother me,I am heading off this year to Ireland anyway for personal reasons too but also preferring to base myself in an EU Nation that is seemingly far more forward looking than some in England.
Not the rest of the UK,if there even will be a UK at all in the future of the current 4 Nations that form the present UK.

[user104658]

But Ireland will have a special arrangement it seems :flutter: with regard to travel and work anyway

I think that has to be inevitable because there's a land border with NI which would be impossible to control as strictly as the borders otherwise. There sort of HAS to be more or less free movement between ROI and NI. I do wonder what effect that will have on the ease of travelling between NI and the rUK, though... as EU members obviously still have access to ROI.

[jaxie]

Finally. So relieved we aren't getting some kind of semi EU arrangement.
That doesn't mean we can't negotiate a good trade deal with the EU on our own terms.

I think a different deal with Ireland is understandable.

[Niamh.]

Sorry but I think that is going to be bad for the UK, a bad decision but one all in the UK will have to cope with.
For Ireland, she is talking without authority.

Ireland will be bound by EU directives, she is going to have to bend consderably to get a really workable result.

Won't bother me,I am heading off this year to Ireland anyway for personal reasons too but also preferring to base myself in an EU Nation that is seemingly far more forward looking than some in England,not the rest of the UK,if there even will be a UK at all in the future of the current 4 Nations that form the present UK.

oh are you moving here joey? What part will you going to?

[Cherie]

Parliment to vote on the deal

[user104658]

oh are you moving here joey? What part will you going to?

That awkward moment when Niamh hasn't been informed that Joey is moving into a caravan in her garden :umm2:.

[Niamh.]

That awkward moment when Niamh hasn't been informed that Joey is moving into a caravan in her garden :umm2:.

Joey is more than welcome :love:

[Crimson Dynamo]

oh are you moving here joey? What part will you going to?

http://s0.geograph.org.uk/photos/25/06/250643_dfa192f0.jpg

[user104658]

https://a1-videos.myspacecdn.com/videos02/99/547048bea95f42cf8f102bb6f8bd1a75/full.jpg

[Cherie]

:joker:

I'm moving back to Ireland as well but not just yet, poor Niamh will be looking to Exit to get rid of the foreigners :hehe:

[Jack_]

So when are workers rights being rescinded?

[Niamh.]

:joker:

I'm moving back to Ireland as well but not just yet, poor Niamh will be looking to Exit to get rid of the foreigners :hehe:

Are you? Back to Cork?

[jaxie]

Sorry but I think that is going to be bad for the UK, a bad decision but one all in the UK will have to cope with.
For Ireland, she is talking without authority.

Ireland will be bound by EU directives, she is going to have to bend consderably to get a really workable result.

Won't bother me,I am heading off this year to Ireland anyway for personal reasons too but also preferring to base myself in an EU Nation that is seemingly far more forward looking than some in England.
Not the rest of the UK,if there even will be a UK at all in the future of the current 4 Nations that form the present UK.

I very much doubt she would have mentioned Ireland if talks hadn't already taken place to some degree. Teresa May met the Taoiseach in July.

Good luck in Ireland! You can always come back.

[jaxie]

So when are workers rights being rescinded?

David Davis mentioned workers rights in his speech, how the UK already go further than the EU basic guidelines and how they won't change, and may even be enhanced.

[UserSince2005]

SO here for the EU being a satellite state of the UK in 5 years time!!!

[joeysteele]

oh are you moving here joey? What part will you going to?

Hi Niamh,

After what happened last year my Mum and I talked a lot about the future.
All my Mum's ancestry is Irish and I love the place,spending many summer hols at my Grandmothers home in Mullingar.

However at present after much discussion my Mum now fancies Galway.
I will be happy anywhere there.
So we have to sort out things with my Grandmothers former home and then get things moving.
So hopefully by the Autumn we will move there or earlier.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:joker:

I'm moving back to Ireland as well but not just yet, poor Niamh will be looking to Exit to get rid of the foreigners :hehe:

:suspect:

[Northern Monkey]

Was a great speech.Just heard it.She didn't mince her words.Made me proud to be British

[Niamh.]

Hi Niamh,

After what happened last year my Mum and I talked a lot about the future.
All my Mum's ancestry is Irish and I love the place,spending many summer hols at my Grandmothers home in Mullingar.

However at present after much discussion my Mum now fancies Galway.
I will be happy anywhere there.
So we have to sort out things with my Grandmothers former home and then get things moving.
So hopefully by the Autumn we will move there or earlier.

Oh Galway is definitely the place to go, that's my favourite city in Ireland plus the scenery and countryside there is stunning too. My brother lives there actually.

Mullingar is nice and all but there's not much there. I hope it all goes well for you both, I'm sure you will love it :love:

[joeysteele]

Oh Galway is definitely the place to go, that's my favourite city in Ireland plus the scenery and countryside there is stunning too. My brother lives there actually.

Mullingar is nice and all but there's not much there. I hope it all goes well for you both, I'm sure you will love it :love:


I am sure it will be Galway,that is where my Grandad was from.
It will be a whole new move and as I said I get to remain in an EU Nation too so all round for me, indeed both myself and my Mum, it makes sense and will be a good move.

[arista]

Parliment to vote on the deal


Yes
slows us down
so not good

[Kizzy]

But Ireland will have a special arrangement it seems :flutter: with regard to travel and work anyway

Why's that? we voted out as the UK, It's not fair if only England get the **** end of the stick :/

Not going to lie this news really worries me, I don't want to live in a BRIC country! I want rights!!
Brexitters have effectively played right into the hands of every anti NATO country, previously known as the enemy of freedom and equality... we've been duped :(

[Cherie]

Are you? Back to Cork?
yes or Kerry

[Kizzy]

Please take me with you! :bawling:

[the truth]

Sorry but I think that is going to be bad for the UK, a bad decision but one all in the UK will have to cope with.
For Ireland, she is talking without authority.

Ireland will be bound by EU directives, she is going to have to bend consderably to get a really workable result.

Won't bother me,I am heading off this year to Ireland anyway for personal reasons too but also preferring to base myself in an EU Nation that is seemingly far more forward looking than some in England.
Not the rest of the UK,if there even will be a UK at all in the future of the current 4 Nations that form the present UK.

Its awesome for the UK and in the end it will be awesome for everyone else in decades to come as these self serving corrupt incompetent unaccountable corporate lackeys running the eu commission will slowly die out like neanderthals

Since the EU kept expanding corporate corruption and tax dodging on a monumental scale has grown beyond belief. Apple and google has 100s of billions in european accounts, having paid miniscule taxes across europe for 20 years. meanwhile the EU hasnt handed in audited accounts for 20 years. They are the scum of the universe.

It takes these muppets 7 years to make a trade deal lol Boeing lost $ 1 billion on their share value in 90 minutes last week? thats how business works, its minute by minute , not 7 years...The EU is an absolute disgrace. Given carte blanche it would ultimately become another form of USSR communist control. Where the 0.001% would cream off the top and everyone else would be destroyed by red tape , waste, corrupt laws , endless red tape that ultimately destroys the sme's chances of competing and taxes that only the corporates could afford to avoid. It is anto democratic, anti free market, anti free trade, its even anti mimmigration really. as it stops countries recruiting all the people they need to come in from OUTSIDE europe

[Kizzy]

Its awesome for the UK and in the end it will be awesome for everyone else in decades to come as these self serving corrupt incompetent unaccountable corporate lackeys running the eu commission will slowly die out like neanderthals

Since the EU kept expanding corporate corruption and tax dodging on a monumental scale has grown beyond belief. Apple and google has 100s of billions in european accounts, having paid miniscule taxes across europe for 20 years. meanwhile the EU hasnt handed in audited accounts for 20 years. They are the scum of the universe.

It takes these muppets 7 years to make a trade deal lol Boeing lost $ 1 billion on their share value in 90 minutes last week? thats how business works, its minute by minute , not 7 years...The EU is an absolute disgrace. Given carte blanche it would ultimately become another form of USSR communist control. Where the 0.001% would cream off the top and everyone else would be destroyed by red tape , waste, corrupt laws , endless red tape that ultimately destroys the sme's chances of competing and taxes that only the corporates could afford to avoid. It is anto democratic, anti free market, anti free trade, its even anti mimmigration really. as it stops countries recruiting all the people they need to come in from OUTSIDE europe

We are climbing into bed with Donald Trump ( or TRUMPUSA inc).... Are you seriously suggesting he will be competent, not in the slightest self serving and in no way corrupt?

[jaxie]

Its awesome for the UK and in the end it will be awesome for everyone else in decades to come as these self serving corrupt incompetent unaccountable corporate lackeys running the eu commission will slowly die out like neanderthals

Since the EU kept expanding corporate corruption and tax dodging on a monumental scale has grown beyond belief. Apple and google has 100s of billions in european accounts, having paid miniscule taxes across europe for 20 years. meanwhile the EU hasnt handed in audited accounts for 20 years. They are the scum of the universe.

It takes these muppets 7 years to make a trade deal lol Boeing lost $ 1 billion on their share value in 90 minutes last week? thats how business works, its minute by minute , not 7 years...The EU is an absolute disgrace. Given carte blanche it would ultimately become another form of USSR communist control. Where the 0.001% would cream off the top and everyone else would be destroyed by red tape , waste, corrupt laws , endless red tape that ultimately destroys the sme's chances of competing and taxes that only the corporates could afford to avoid. It is anto democratic, anti free market, anti free trade, its even anti mimmigration really. as it stops countries recruiting all the people they need to come in from OUTSIDE europe

:thumbs:

[the truth]

We are climbing into bed with Donald Trump ( or TRUMPUSA inc).... Are you seriously suggesting he will be competent, not in the slightest self serving and in no way corrupt?

He will be a damn sight better than the uber corrupt useless self serving unaccountable european union which has overseen world record unemployment, insane immigration record terrorism and the highest level of bankrupt european countries since the 1920s...as for killary...lets see shes made $250 billion yet has never run a business? she supplied most of the weapons that armed ISIS and she has broken more laws than any politician in the last 20 years with her endless financial scandals at her foundation and of course the deleted 33000 emails many of which held serious classified information, many regarding her supplying missiles and tanks to the so called rebels who turned out to be ISIS.

Trump has achieved a lot even before entering the white house, a one million job deal with the chinese, a 1.6 billion reinvest from chrysler, saved 4.5 billion on air force one etc etc hes going after the right people, wasteful government and corrupt corporations

[Cherie]

https://a1-videos.myspacecdn.com/videos02/99/547048bea95f42cf8f102bb6f8bd1a75/full.jpg

Please take me with you! :bawling:



Of course

[user104658]

Its awesome for the UK and in the end it will be awesome for everyone else in decades to come as these self serving corrupt incompetent unaccountable corporate lackeys running the eu commission will slowly die out like neanderthals

But what about the corrupt incompetent corporate lackeys running Britain? :think:

[jaxie]

But what about the corrupt incompetent corporate lackeys running Britain? :think:

They are at least accountable and ours? :shrug:

[the truth]

They are at least accountable and ours? :shrug:

we can vote them out, we cant vote out the european commission, they are not voted in or out , they are elected by the powerful
Its nothing better than an anti democratic despot dictatorship

[Brillopad]

Sorry but I think that is going to be bad for the UK, a bad decision but one all in the UK will have to cope with.
For Ireland, she is talking without authority.

Ireland will be bound by EU directives, she is going to have to bend consderably to get a really workable result.

Won't bother me,I am heading off this year to Ireland anyway for personal reasons too but also preferring to base myself in an EU Nation that is seemingly far more forward looking than some in England.
Not the rest of the UK,if there even will be a UK at all in the future of the current 4 Nations that form the present UK.

What negative, scaremongering nonsence. There was a vote and more than 50% voted out - a majority vote. Deal with it.

[Vicky.]

Why's that? we voted out as the UK, It's not fair if only England get the **** end of the stick :/


England are more responsible for the shower of **** we have 'ruling' though. 'We' voted Tory. Scotland voted SNP..because of which we get cuts to the most vulnerable whilst the SNP manage to not do that to their people. Same here. Cameron pooped himself and offered a referendum then buggered off as he didn't know what to do. Scotland did not vote for Cameron, did Ireland?

[Brother Leon]

Everyone come join me in London.

#LondonIndependence2017

[jaxie]

England are more responsible for the shower of **** we have 'ruling' though. 'We' voted Tory. Scotland voted SNP..because of which we get cuts to the most vulnerable whilst the SNP manage to not do that to their people. Same here. Cameron pooped himself and offered a referendum then buggered off as he didn't know what to do. Scotland did not vote for Cameron, did Ireland?

The SNP are seriously overspending. Their public spending deficit is the highest in the EU, beats Greece by a mile. The **** is going to hit the fan eventually.

[joeysteele]

What negative, scaremongering nonsence. There was a vote and more than 50% voted out - a majority vote. Deal with it.

Just over 50% and over 6 months ago too,it may not be that now, nothing scaremongering at all.
Good luck to the UK with such attitude and intolerance you have just sort of demonstrated.

I'm glad I will be making a future elsewhere.

[Greg!]

Glad miss Scotland will be making a swift exit from the messy UK soon! :clap1:

[Brillopad]

Just over 50% and over 6 months ago too,it may not be that now, nothing scaremongering at all.
Good luck to the UK with such attitude and intolerance you have just sort of demonstrated.

I'm glad I will be making a future elsewhere.

What intolerance have I just demonstrated? Any successful businessman will tell you to be successful in business you have to sometimes take risks. I think some are just too scared to do that. Equally people may vote the same with more deciding to do so. Just wishful thinking on your part.

That's okay as long as they don't try and change tack if it does work out and benefit Britain. Maybe some of us have more faith in our country and our countrymen than others.

[Brillopad]

Glad miss Scotland will be making a swift exit from the messy UK soon! :clap1:

Good riddance!

[joeysteele]

Glad miss Scotland will be making a swift exit from the messy UK soon! :clap1:

Some in England don't care Greg.
Scotland rarely agrees with England and sadly it seems the UK only matters when the rest of the supposed equal Countries agree with England.
I wish Nicola Sturgeon all the best in her aim and the attitude of part of England shows how little Scotland is valued in this so called United Kingdom.

It cannot be a UK if Scotland goes independent anyway.
How messy as you rightly say.

[Brillopad]

Some in England don't care Greg.
Scotland rarely agrees with England and sadly it seems the UK only matters when the rest of the supposed equal Countries agree with England.
I wish Nicola Sturgeon all the best in her aim and the attitude of part of England shows how little Scotland is valued in this so called United Kingdom.

It cannot be a UK if Scotland goes independent anyway.
How messy as you rightly say.

Hang on a minute Scotland chose to vote in? That was their choice and their responsibility. Why would the English majority vote not count because Scotland wimped out?

[joeysteele]

Hang on a minute Scotland chose to vote in? That was their choice and their responsibility. Why would the English majority vote not count because Scotland wimped out?

Hey you are one that has just said good riddance to Scotland above.
Hardly a way to heal and unite the UK.

So Scotland seeing such an attitude,why should it have to put up with.that and be dragged down further by the so called United Kingdom government.

[the truth]

Just over 50% and over 6 months ago too,it may not be that now, nothing scaremongering at all.
Good luck to the UK with such attitude and intolerance you have just sort of demonstrated.

I'm glad I will be making a future elsewhere.

scot land democratically voted to stay in UK
UK democratically voted to leave wu
simple UK leave and Scotland are part of UK so they leave

[Brillopad]

Hey you are one that has just said good riddance to Scotland above.
Hardly a way to heal and unite the UK.

So Scotland seeing such an attitude,why should it have to put up with.that and be dragged down further by the so called United Kingdom government.

Yes I said that because they bailed. It wasn't England that split the UK. And no one knows how this is all going to turn out - your comments about 'dragging Scotland down' is simply opinion , not fact.

[the truth]

Scotland's economy is getting weaker

[joeysteele]

Yes I said that because they bailed. It wasn't England that split the UK. And no one knows how this is all going to turn out - your comments about 'dragging Scotland down' is simply opinion , not fact.

I believe the UK has kept Scotland down and UK governments used it as a dumping ground to try out rotten policies such as the poll tax.
It doesn't appear that Scotland itself feels a valued Nation in the UK.
So hardly just an opinion.

[Kizzy]

Accountable? I don't think enough realise how corrupt we are becoming. It's time to stop deluding ourselves with this cosy British ideal.... It does not exist!

[arista]

scot land democratically voted to stay in UK
UK democratically voted to leave wu
simple UK leave and Scotland are part of UK so they leave


Yes

Suck It Up Lady Scottish UP there




If you do not like it
We can build a WALL
I love Walls.


That will not effect CASH DEALS
as I would Fly out from London City Airport
Direct to Edinburgh
over the PLEB wall.


Feel The Force.

[Brillopad]

Accountable? I don't think enough realise how corrupt we are becoming. It's time to stop deluding ourselves with this cosy British ideal.... It does not exist!

Britain has as much right to retain its own culture and identity as any other and therefore take action to protect them and it is no more or less corrupt than most other Europen countries.

No country or government will ever be perfect because people aren't perfect but what we have is generally pretty good, which is why so many want to come here.

[jaxie]

scot land democratically voted to stay in UK
UK democratically voted to leave wu
simple UK leave and Scotland are part of UK so they leave

This is true. Scotland are overspending on a massive scale. I don't think they can afford independence at this point. And it is incredibly naive to think the EU would take in yet another small country who can't manage it's budget.

[jaxie]

Britain has as much right to retain its own culture and identity as any other and therefore take action to protect them and it is no more or less corrupt than most other Europen countries.

No country or government will ever be perfect because people aren't perfect but what we have is generally pretty good, which is why so many want to come here.

I have to agree with this. :wavey:

[reece(:]

821408279842668544

[jaxie]

821408279842668544

It's all talk. If she had the ability to go for independence she'd be demanding it. It's her ultimate goal. She can jabber on about the single market all she likes. The UK voted to leave and the EU won't make exceptions for Scotland or anything that gives Scotland a case for membership. Scotland wants the EU, the EU does not want Scotland. :shrug:

[Kizzy]

Britain has as much right to retain its own culture and identity as any other and therefore take action to protect them and it is no more or less corrupt than most other Europen countries.

No country or government will ever be perfect because people aren't perfect but what we have is generally pretty good, which is why so many want to come here.

Protecting people from corruption has nothing to do with culture...none.

We are considerably more corrupt, mafia bosses are more diplomatic.
We were pretty good, now we are dire. Bury your head and sing Jerusalem but how can a country hurtling towards autocracy,which is already more easily described as a meritocracy than a democracy be anything but?...
We have too many representatives with a conflict of interest, who are glorified lobbyists or who are simply biding their time before shuffling to a cushy corporate position.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/17/uk-government-accused-of-falling-short-on-pledges-to-fight-corruption

[Brillopad]

Protecting people from corruption has nothing to do with culture...none.

We are considerably more corrupt, mafia bosses are more diplomatic.
We were pretty good, now we are dire. Bury your head and sing Jerusalem but how can a country hurtling towards autocracy,which is already more easily described as a meritocracy than a democracy be anything but?...
We have too many representatives with a conflict of interest, who are glorified lobbyists or who are simply biding their time before shuffling to a cushy corporate position.

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/jan/17/uk-government-accused-of-falling-short-on-pledges-to-fight-corruption

Just like many opposed to Brexit are so because of their own financial interests - business and personal.

Money will always be a motivator in business and to the ambitious, nothing will change that. To suggest other Western politicians are any different is naive, but we are still a democracy despite how many would like to change that. Most want to keep it that way.

Considering your views on Brexit I find your comments ironic given you would be quite happy to overturn a democratic public vote when it suits. That would be the start of a very slippery slope and potentially the beginning of the end for democracy in Britain, playing right into the hands of some.

[Kizzy]

Just like many opposed to Brexit are so because of their own financial interests - business and personal.

Money will always be a motivator in business and to the ambitious, nothing will change that. To suggest other Western politicians are any different is naive, but we are still a democracy despite how many would like to change that. Most want to keep it that way.

Considering your views on Brexit I find your comments ironic given you would be quite happy to overturn a democratic public vote when it suits. That would be the start of a very slippery slope and potentially the beginning of the end for democracy in Britain, playing right into the hands of some.

Who said I was for overturning the decision?...

I was for remain but if that was the will of the people (allegedly) then so be it, that said you can't disagree that May has gone further than anyone imagined in her progress thus far?...She is not suggesting we be out, but OUT out, light years out even :/

I don't give a fig about business if I'm honest... All I want is to know is wages, rights, civil protections, environmental considerations, schooling, and healthcare are maintained and protected for future generations. I do not trust this govt to deliver that, I fear with the expansion of the service industry we're going back to an 'upstairs downstairs' existence that will see the 99% trapped in a cycle of poverty and debt.

[jaxie]

Who said I was for overturning the decision?...

I was for remain but if that was the will of the people (allegedly) then so be it, that said you can't disagree that May has gone further than anyone imagined in her progress thus far?...She is not suggesting we be out, but OUT out, light years out even :/

I don't give a fig about business if I'm honest... All I want is to know is wages, rights, civil protections, environmental considerations, schooling, and healthcare are maintained and protected for future generations. I do not trust this govt to deliver that, I fear with the expansion of the service industry we're going back to an 'upstairs downstairs' existence that will see the 99% trapped in a cycle of poverty and debt.

I don't see why you are so surprised Kizzy. The vote was to leave, not to half leave or a third leave. There aren't any out, out's, just the one. It should be fairly straightforward. When we all went to vote, before we voted there was never anything to suggest we might be voting for half out or out but staying in this or that. :shrug:

[Kizzy]

I don't see why you are so surprised Kizzy. The vote was to leave, not to half leave or a third leave. There aren't any out, out's, just the one. It should be fairly straightforward. When we all went to vote, before we voted there was never anything to suggest we might be voting for half out or out but staying in this or that. :shrug:

Um I think you may be in the minority on that one Jaxie British business is reeling from the removal of the single market, small and medium sized businesses will be compromised if they can't afford to trade globally or there are tariffs. Who is thinking about them?...

[Brillopad]

Um I think you may be in the minority on that one Jaxie British business is reeling from the removal of the single market, small and medium sized businesses will be compromised if they can't afford to trade globally or there are tariffs. Who is thinking about them?...

I thought you didn't care about business!

Jaxie is right, people voted out full stop. All this soft/hard Brexit rhetoric was a reluctant compromise from those in the remain camp, after the vote, desperate to interfere in a result they never wanted.

[Kizzy]

I thought you didn't care about business!

Jaxie is right, people voted out full stop. All this soft/hard Brexit rhetoric was a reluctant compromise from those in the remain camp, after the vote, desperate to interfere in a result they never wanted.

Well I don't personally as I don't own a business, but I can empathise with those that do ... :/

I believe most brexiteers feel this is a bit of a runaway train, nobody is so pig headed they will stumble along like blind man in a viper enclosure.. are they?

[Brillopad]

Well I don't personally as I don't own a business, but I can empathise with those that do ... :/

I believe most brexiteers feel this is a bit of a runaway train, nobody is so pig headed they will stumble along like blind man in a viper enclosure.. are they?

I think fear of the unknown is natural, we all feel it to varying degrees, but many feel we can't be controlled by a bitter Europe intent on punishing us for daring to want out.

[the truth]

Who said I was for overturning the decision?...

I was for remain but if that was the will of the people (allegedly) then so be it, that said you can't disagree that May has gone further than anyone imagined in her progress thus far?...She is not suggesting we be out, but OUT out, light years out even :/

I don't give a fig about business if I'm honest... All I want is to know is wages, rights, civil protections, environmental considerations, schooling, and healthcare are maintained and protected for future generations. I do not trust this govt to deliver that, I fear with the expansion of the service industry we're going back to an 'upstairs downstairs' existence that will see the 99% trapped in a cycle of poverty and debt.

what the heck? business pays for all that

[the truth]

Well I don't personally as I don't own a business, but I can empathise with those that do ... :/

I believe most brexiteers feel this is a bit of a runaway train, nobody is so pig headed they will stumble along like blind man in a viper enclosure.. are they?

so you dont care? now you do care?

[Kizzy]

so you dont care? now you do care?

Let me explain, I am not a business owner so the issues facing them don't affect me directly...rather, indirectly.

However, the EU laws provisions and protections do affect me directly as a citizen if my wages or rights are affected as they could very well be.

[Kizzy]

what the heck? business pays for all that

I didn't mention money, it's the legislation around those issues that will be at risk.

[jaxie]

Let me explain, I am not a business owner so the issues facing them don't affect me directly...rather, indirectly.

However, the EU laws provisions and protections do affect me directly as a citizen if my wages or rights are affected as they could very well be.

It's already been stated in Parliament that workers rights won't be affected.

And that laws aren't going to change.

[the truth]

I didn't mention money, it's the legislation around those issues that will be at risk.

are you serious? business creates the money to pay for all those things

[jaxie]

Um I think you may be in the minority on that one Jaxie British business is reeling from the removal of the single market, small and medium sized businesses will be compromised if they can't afford to trade globally or there are tariffs. Who is thinking about them?...

I saw the ballot paper the same as everyone else. It said leave or remain. It didn't say leave a bit, or leave but keep the single market or leave and only pay tarrifs on non cheddar cheese. Business may be 'reeling' but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person in the UK who can read.

[user104658]

It's already been stated in Parliament that workers rights won't be affected.

And that laws aren't going to change.

Oh well if they stated it in Parliament, it will definitely be true and not subject to change in any way.

[jaxie]

Oh well if they stated it in Parliament, it will definitely be true and not subject to change in any way.

Isn't that rather the point of Parliament to hold the government accountable if they break their word. Isn't that what everyone keeps saying when they want Parliament to micro manage Brexit.

The fact is this country has a good record on workers rights and we usually go further than the basic guidelines laid out by the EU. Apart from scare mongering and conspiracy theories what do you base your scepticism on?

[user104658]

Isn't that rather the point of Parliament to hold the government accountable if they break their word. Isn't that what everyone keeps saying when they want Parliament to micro manage Brexit.

The fact is this country has a good record on workers rights and we usually go further than the basic guidelines laid out by the EU. Apart from scare mongering and conspiracy theories what do you base your scepticism on?

The fact that we no longer have an active democracy, we have a by-default Tory government for the forseeable future, and the Tories have made it abundantly clear in MANY ways over the last 8 years that they have very little interest in work/life balance and are only interested in seeing people live to work. I can't think of any reason that this is likely to change? In fact, there has been plenty of Tory admiration for China of all places, a country that aggressively schools its children to the point of depression and then works them into the ground for peanuts as soon as they hit adulthood.

[jaxie]

The fact that we no longer have an active democracy, we have a by-default Tory government for the forseeable future, and the Tories have made it abundantly clear in MANY ways over the last 8 years that they have very little interest in work/life balance and are only interested in seeing people live to work. I can't think of any reason that this is likely to change? In fact, there has been plenty of Tory admiration for China of all places, a country that aggressively schools its children to the point of depression and then works them into the ground for peanuts as soon as they hit adulthood.

You should try to be more optimistic TS.

If you don't like the Tory government let Labour back into Scotland. They don't have much hope without any kind of Scottish vote.

[joeysteele]

You should try to be more optimistic TS.

If you don't like the Tory government let Labour back into Scotland. They don't have much hope without any kind of Scottish vote.

Quite frankly Scotland is fine with the SNP,they would never support a Conservative led govt.

England now,particularly the far South,dictates the government of the UK and down there support for the Cons and all their rotten hardline policies gets the strongest support.
Boundary changes coming in will in effect remove more than twice as many seats from Labour,than it will Conservative ones.

What the UK needs is PR for general elections otherwise the prospect is Conservative led govt for the foreseeable future now.
However the one and only party that will never look at PR seriously is the Conservative party.
That may be good for the far South of England only but a bleak outlook for all the rest of the UK.

[jaxie]

Quite frankly Scotland is fine with the SNP,they would never support a Conservative led govt.

England now,particularly the far South,dictates the government of the UK and down there support for the Cons and all their rotten hardline policies gets the strongest support.
Boundary changes coming in will in effect remove more than twice as many seats from Labour,than it will Conservative ones.

What the UK needs is PR for general elections otherwise the prospect is Conservative led govt for the foreseeable future now.
However the one and only party that will never look at PR seriously is the Conservative party.
That may be good for the far South of England only but a bleak outlook for all the rest of the UK.

I'm sure if Labour could get their act together and find a decent leader it would help. New Labour managed to win seats from the Tories down south.

[joeysteele]

I'm sure if Labour could get their act together and find a decent leader it would help. New Labour managed to win seats from the Tories down south.

Times have changed,2 sets of boundary changes since the 2005 election that cut Labour seats more than others.

Hard to see from me now.
Lib Dems coming back in the far South could help remove the Cons overall majority but then any breakthrough for UKIP too elsewhere would balance that out.
UKIP in the end would likely only prop up a Conservative led govt.

I see no prospect for anything other than near one party govt by the Conservatives with a Labour opposition for ages without PR now.

[jaxie]

Times have changed,2 sets of boundary changes since the 2005 election that cut Labour seats more than others.

Hard to see from me now.
Lib Dems coming back in the far South could help remove the Cons overall majority but then any breakthrough for UKIP too elsewhere would balance that out.
UKIP in the end would likely only prop up a Conservative led govt.

I see no prospect for anything other than near one party govt by the Conservatives with a Labour opposition for ages without PR now.

I think that UKIP have had their day now. I see them falling back into relative obscurity.

[joeysteele]

For the whole of the UK,I hope you are right jaxie.

[Kizzy]

It's already been stated in Parliament that workers rights won't be affected.

And that laws aren't going to change.

Wrong, they filibustered the decision out of the order of business last week.

And laws will have to change as the current protections are EU laws not UK, if they were so determined to put to rest the worries that workers rights and protections are safe why not enshrine them now?

Ms Onn blasted the Tories who apparently talked-out her bill, saying they had shown "their true colours" in refusing to sign-up to protections in the workplace.

"My bill would go no further than what Theresa May and David Davis promised last year – to ensure that the rights currently afforded to British workers are maintained after Brexit," said the Labour MP.

"By talking out the bill, the Tories have shown their true colours. They say that maternity pay, parental leave, and paid leave are all safe in their hands.

"But when given the opportunity to put their money where their mouths are, they instead blocked the protection of those rights in UK law, and have let down working people."


Read more at http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/bid-to-protect-workers-rights-blocked-due-to-tory-mps-filibustering-on-love-of-radio-for-four-hours/story-30056541-detail/story.html#oGkBbrzEclXMzhjo.99

[Kizzy]

I saw the ballot paper the same as everyone else. It said leave or remain. It didn't say leave a bit, or leave but keep the single market or leave and only pay tarrifs on non cheddar cheese. Business may be 'reeling' but I'm pretty sure I'm not the only person in the UK who can read.

Right, well then you got what you wanted clearly.

[Kizzy]

Isn't that rather the point of Parliament to hold the government accountable if they break their word. Isn't that what everyone keeps saying when they want Parliament to micro manage Brexit.

The fact is this country has a good record on workers rights and we usually go further than the basic guidelines laid out by the EU. Apart from scare mongering and conspiracy theories what do you base your scepticism on?

Do you have any proof of this?

[jaxie]

Do you have any proof of this?

It was mentioned in parliament yesterday but I'm sure you can look it up.

I'll help you though, because I'm kind and giving. I'm sure you'll pick out anything negative in the article and ignore the rest. https://www.theguardian.com/careers/2016/may/24/what-would-leaving-eu-mean--employment-rights

"There are many areas of UK employment law that do not derive from Europe, and therefore would not be affected by a Brexit. These include unfair dismissal protection, the national minimum wage, and unlawful deductions of pay. Furthermore, laws promoting equal pay and banning race discrimination both pre-date the UK’s membership of the EU. In some cases, the UK has even enhanced the rights given to workers which goes beyond what was required by European directives. For example, the right to shared parental leave, and to request flexible working, are domestic in origin.

Finally, the UK courts and tribunals are already bound by rulings from the European court of justice on applicable EU law. This court’s decisions will continue to be binding unless a judge has good reason to depart from them following a Brexit, or they are overridden by an act of parliament."

[jaxie]

Right, well then you got what you wanted clearly.

Without any regret.

[jaxie]

Wrong, they filibustered the decision out of the order of business last week.

And laws will have to change as the current protections are EU laws not UK, if they were so determined to put to rest the worries that workers rights and protections are safe why not enshrine them now?

Ms Onn blasted the Tories who apparently talked-out her bill, saying they had shown "their true colours" in refusing to sign-up to protections in the workplace.

"My bill would go no further than what Theresa May and David Davis promised last year – to ensure that the rights currently afforded to British workers are maintained after Brexit," said the Labour MP.

"By talking out the bill, the Tories have shown their true colours. They say that maternity pay, parental leave, and paid leave are all safe in their hands.

"But when given the opportunity to put their money where their mouths are, they instead blocked the protection of those rights in UK law, and have let down working people."


Read more at http://www.grimsbytelegraph.co.uk/bid-to-protect-workers-rights-blocked-due-to-tory-mps-filibustering-on-love-of-radio-for-four-hours/story-30056541-detail/story.html#oGkBbrzEclXMzhjo.99

Not wrong. It was in David Davis speech to parliament yesterday, read the transcript. He said workers rights won't change. :shrug:

I don't know where you get the idea from that all rights laws will vanish once we leave the EU. FYI the first workers rights laws followed the Black Death in this country there was a Statute of Labourers in 1351!

[Kizzy]

It was mentioned in parliament yesterday but I'm sure you can look it up.

I'll help you though, because I'm kind and giving. I'm sure you'll pick out anything negative in the article and ignore the rest. https://www.theguardian.com/careers/2016/may/24/what-would-leaving-eu-mean--employment-rights

"There are many areas of UK employment law that do not derive from Europe, and therefore would not be affected by a Brexit. These include unfair dismissal protection, the national minimum wage, and unlawful deductions of pay. Furthermore, laws promoting equal pay and banning race discrimination both pre-date the UK’s membership of the EU. In some cases, the UK has even enhanced the rights given to workers which goes beyond what was required by European directives. For example, the right to shared parental leave, and to request flexible working, are domestic in origin.

Finally, the UK courts and tribunals are already bound by rulings from the European court of justice on applicable EU law. This court’s decisions will continue to be binding unless a judge has good reason to depart from them following a Brexit, or they are overridden by an act of parliament."

How about working times directives?...

Brexit means brexit remember? there will be no EU law, everything will be rewritten.

Let's look at Reece Mogg for how he envisages working conditions in the future,....

'Jacob Rees-Mogg said regulations that were “good enough for India” could be good enough for the UK – arguing that the UK could go “a very long way” to rolling back high EU standards.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html

[Kizzy]

Not wrong. It was in David Davis speech to parliament yesterday, read the transcript. He said workers rights won't change. :shrug:

I don't know where you get the idea from that all rights laws will vanish once we leave the EU. FYI the first workers rights laws followed the Black Death in this country there was a Statute of Labourers in 1351!

'Ministers have declined to back a Labour bill that would enshrine workers' rights in to EU law, though Theresa May has said the rules protecting workers will be safe'

I know what they have said...But what they say and what they follow through with are two very different things.

I am aware that there were laws prior to the EU protections for the rights of workers, that is not being disputed at all, needless to say those laws did not go far enough and were repealed.

What evidence do we have that the govt will protect jobs?.....None.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html

[jaxie]

'Ministers have declined to back a Labour bill that would enshrine workers' rights in to EU law, though Theresa May has said the rules protecting workers will be safe'

I know what they have said...But what they say and what they follow through with are two very different things.

I am aware that there were laws prior to the EU protections for the rights of workers, that is not being disputed at all, needless to say those laws did not go far enough and were repealed.

What evidence do we have that the govt will protect jobs?.....None.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html

So what? Maybe there will be another bill, maybe a bill isn't necessary. They put bills through parliament often that don't make it. It's actually not relevant to the conversation.

[Kizzy]

So what? Maybe there will be another bill, maybe a bill isn't necessary. They put bills through parliament often that don't make it. It's actually not relevant to the conversation.

A bill will be necessary :/ I don't think you understand the relevance Jaxie. Not sure how you don't consider it relevant?
If you want out out then we need assurances that civil protections are retained surely.... Is this too forward thinking?

[jaxie]

How about working times directives?...

Brexit means brexit remember? there will be no EU law, everything will be rewritten.

Let's look at Reece Mogg for how he envisages working conditions in the future,....

'Jacob Rees-Mogg said regulations that were “good enough for India” could be good enough for the UK – arguing that the UK could go “a very long way” to rolling back high EU standards.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html

The government have already said that most law will go into UK law and remain. Anything else we'll just have to wait and see. You are just speculating. Reece Mogg isn't the government or Brexit.

[Kizzy]

The government have already said that most law will go into UK law and remain. Anything else we'll just have to wait and see. You are just speculating. Reece Mogg isn't the government or Brexit.

Again they had the chance to act on that last friday and they chose not to, the link you posted from may last year before the referendum would appear to be a load of tosh wouldn't it?

So because rees moggs comments directly relate to my fears and those of millions of workers across the UK they are not to be relied upon?
:/

[jaxie]

Again they had the chance to act on that last friday and they chose not to, the link you posted from may last year before the referendum would appear to be a load of tosh wouldn't it?

So because rees moggs comments directly relate to my fears and those of millions of workers across the UK they are not to be relied upon?
:/

Perhaps it wasn't the appropriate time for that bill. You'd have to ask them their reasons, I can't speak for them.

Boris Johnson comments often, do all of his comments affect our laws? Politicians do give personal views, that doesn't make them government policy.

Rights laws from prior to the EU weren't all repealed. :shrug:

[Kizzy]

Perhaps it wasn't the appropriate time for that bill. You'd have to ask them their reasons, I can't speak for them.

Boris Johnson comments often, do all of his comments affect our laws? Politicians do give personal views, that doesn't make them government policy.

Rights laws from prior to the EU weren't all repealed. :shrug:

Wasn't the appropriate time?.... it was 3rd in the order of business and yet it was talked out of time as a discussion on digital radio and the impact of the archers was filibustered into 4hrs.

Can you give me one instance of something that is of benefit to the environmental or civil protections that predated EU law?

Instead of constantly shrugging provide me with something to substantiate what you claim perhaps?

[jaxie]

Wasn't the appropriate time?.... it was 3rd in the order of business and yet it was talked out of time as a discussion on digital radio and the impact of the archers was filibustered into 4hrs.

Can you give me one instance of something that is of benefit to the environmental or civil protections that predated EU law?

Instead of constantly shrugging provide me with something to substantiate what you claim perhaps?

Why yes I already quoted you an article which told you about protecting and laws that predated the EU.

I like the shrug emoticon, it amuses me and I shall use it whenever I choose. I give you information all the time that you ignore because it doesn't fit your anti UK agenda.

[Kizzy]

Why yes I already quoted you an article which told you about protecting and laws that predated the EU.

I like the shrug emoticon, it amuses me and I shall use it whenever I choose. I give you information all the time that you ignore because it doesn't fit your anti UK agenda.

I saw the article you posted, it does suggest there were some provisions however we can't say that the protections we had will come back in force, nothing will just click back as it was prior to joining the EU.

There is no point discussing this with you further your rude comment that I am 'anti UK' for daring to question areas of brexit I am concerned about is unnecessary.

[Brillopad]

I saw the article you posted, it does suggest there were some provisions however we can't say that the protections we had will come back in force, nothing will just click back as it was prior to joining the EU.

There is no point discussing this with you further your rude comment that I am 'anti UK' for daring to question areas of brexit I am concerned about is unnecessary.

Tbh maybe you now have some understanding of how offensive many find it being accused of being a 'racist' or a 'bigot' for daring to question mass immigration.

[the truth]

Tbh maybe you now have some understanding of how offensive many find it being accused of being a 'racist' or a 'bigot' for daring to question mass immigration.

exactly it's vile slander

[jaxie]

I saw the article you posted, it does suggest there were some provisions however we can't say that the protections we had will come back in force, nothing will just click back as it was prior to joining the EU.

There is no point discussing this with you further your rude comment that I am 'anti UK' for daring to question areas of brexit I am concerned about is unnecessary.

:shrug: You can take what I said as being rude if you like. But you are misquoting me slightly.

Were we discussing? I thought you were dismissing the information I passed on and calling me wrong for passing it on as if it were an opinion or something I made up.

As to the article those protections have been in force all the time, before the EU, during etc, they didn't go anywhere. The article also stated this country went further on more recent EU directives on workers rights than was required. You seem to believe all the laws and rights we had before the EU were repealed or went up on a puff of smoke during the time we have been a member and that we have had no part in encouraging or supporting any of the laws on this subject while in the EU. Instead you cling to one bill that didn't get its time in Parliament as absolute proof that the government plans to do workers wrong. The people of this country aren't stupid and do have a voice. The government are not a dictatorship.

[Brillopad]

:shrug: You can take what I said as being rude if you like. But you are misquoting me slightly.

Were we discussing? I thought you were dismissing the information I passed on and calling me wrong for passing it on as if it were an opinion or something I made up.

As to the article those protections have been in force all the time, before the EU, during etc, they didn't go anywhere. The article also stated this country went further on more recent EU directives on workers rights than was required. You seem to believe all the laws and rights we had before the EU were repealed or went up on a puff of smoke during the time we have been a member and that we have had no part in encouraging or supporting any of the laws on this subject while in the EU. Instead you cling to one bill that didn't get its time in Parliament as absolute proof that the government plans to do workers wrong. The people of this country aren't stupid and do have a voice. The government are not a dictatorship.

I agree. Workers' rights are important to most as most are workers. People would not vote for something en mass if they believed they would lose their rights.

Britain is not and never will be a dictatorship as long as we stand up for ourselves and defend our corner.

[Northern Monkey]

:shrug: You can take what I said as being rude if you like. But you are misquoting me slightly.

Were we discussing? I thought you were dismissing the information I passed on and calling me wrong for passing it on as if it were an opinion or something I made up.

As to the article those protections have been in force all the time, before the EU, during etc, they didn't go anywhere. The article also stated this country went further on more recent EU directives on workers rights than was required. You seem to believe all the laws and rights we had before the EU were repealed or went up on a puff of smoke during the time we have been a member and that we have had no part in encouraging or supporting any of the laws on this subject while in the EU. Instead you cling to one bill that didn't get its time in Parliament as absolute proof that the government plans to do workers wrong. The people of this country aren't stupid and do have a voice. The government are not a dictatorship.:clap1:

[Kizzy]

:shrug: You can take what I said as being rude if you like. But you are misquoting me slightly.

Were we discussing? I thought you were dismissing the information I passed on and calling me wrong for passing it on as if it were an opinion or something I made up.

As to the article those protections have been in force all the time, before the EU, during etc, they didn't go anywhere. The article also stated this country went further on more recent EU directives on workers rights than was required. You seem to believe all the laws and rights we had before the EU were repealed or went up on a puff of smoke during the time we have been a member and that we have had no part in encouraging or supporting any of the laws on this subject while in the EU. Instead you cling to one bill that didn't get its time in Parliament as absolute proof that the government plans to do workers wrong. The people of this country aren't stupid and do have a voice. The government are not a dictatorship.

' it doesn't fit your anti UK agenda'

Not misquoting you that's what you said word for word, you have taken my concerns and misinterpreted them in your mind as a slur on the UK..
The provision we had didn't go far enough and was replaced on certain issues by the EU, that is a given.

It's not just myself that has concerns regarding the lack of urgency on those matters, several MPS who were present voiced their disgust and it was reported, which is how I came to hear of it.

I didn't suggest anyone was stupid, please don't put words in my mouth.

This is the last comment to you as you are starting to misrepresent what I post and make unwarranted accusations as to my motives.

[jaxie]

' it doesn't fit your anti UK agenda'

Not misquoting you that's what you said word for word, you have taken my concerns and misinterpreted them in your mind as a slur on the UK..
The provision we had didn't go far enough and was replaced on certain issues by the EU, that is a given.

It's not just myself that has concerns regarding the lack of urgency on those matters, several MPS who were present voiced their disgust and it was reported, which is how I came to hear of it.

I didn't suggest anyone was stupid, please don't put words in my mouth.

This is the last comment to you as you are starting to misrepresent what I post and make unwarranted accusations as to my motives.

I could say I've been on the receiving end of that for some time but I'm not going to get into a tit for tat.

Your 'it is a given' is simply not true.

You have a lovely weekend. :flowers:

[Kizzy]

I could say I've been on the receiving end of that for some time but I'm not going to get into a tit for tat.

Your 'it is a given' is simply not true.

You have a lovely weekend. :flowers:

Another accusatory post, you have not been on the receiving end of anything from myself on this or any other matter.

It is a given... The EU laws on some issues overwrote our own they are in the link you provided.

Here is another article discussing the fears I have, I would love to have your unwavering faith...But I don't.

Labour will not back a vital piece of Theresa May’s Brexit legislation if it contains sweeping powers allowing ministers to scrap vital workers’ rights, human rights and environmental provisions.

Shadow Brexit Secretary Sir Keir Starmer vowed his party would fight Ms May “all the way” if she tried to use Brexit as an opportunity to adopt the so-called “Henry VIII powers”.

The expected move by the Government would render Parliament almost powerless to stop Tory ministers in post-Brexit Britain from dumping rights previously enshrined in EU law.
In an exclusive interview with The Independent, Sir Keir also revealed how his party would try force the Government to give Parliament more control over Ms May’s Brexit negotiations.'

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-labour-theresa-may-great-repeal-bill-rejection-a7538281.html

[Northern Monkey]

Idk.Some of this speculation seems a little paranoid to me.Why would Theresa May want to scrap workers right?What would she gain?

[Kizzy]

Idk.Some of this speculation seems a little paranoid to me.Why would Theresa May want to scrap workers right?What would she gain?

It is a genuine concern not of only myself but MPs, are they paranoid too?...as we have no concrete assurances, and the chance they had to give an assurance was deliberately bypassed.
Speculation is all we have... for anything, so close any and all debates on brexit as speculation is not a normal natural response to attempt to rationalise what is happening to the country in which we live :/

She would gain subdued debt saddled wage slaves ... you, your kids .. your kids kids.