Trump: for the sake of balance...

[Livia]

Sign the petition to support Trump's visit.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844

Where were the protests and petitions when Robert Mugabe had a state visit? And what about China? They have Human Rights abuses going back into history. There was a small protest but nothing on this scale.

We export more stuff to the US than to any other country. While that doesn't mean we should put up with any crap from the US, it does mean that we should think long and hard before we let a minority of people sour any kind of relationship with the US. Trump will not be president forevever, we should keep ourselves in a position to have a word when we don't agree with something instead of alienating ourselves completely ourselves.

[the truth]

Liv youre a star....just signed it , up to 89, 685 want trump in, if it hits 100,000 it has to be debated in parliament

[Kazanne]

Sign the petition to support Trump's visit.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844

Where were the protests and petitions when Robert Mugabe had a state visit? And what about China? They have Human Rights abuses going back into history. There was a small protest but nothing on this scale.

We export more stuff to the US than to any other country. While that doesn't mean we should put up with any crap from the US, it does mean that we should think long and hard before we let a minority of people sour any kind of relationship with the US. Trump will not be president forevever, we should keep ourselves in a position to have a word when we don't agree with something instead of alienating ourselves completely ourselves.

:clap1::clap1:Been looking for this Livia,Thankyou. Signed.

[user104658]

I'm so torn over this issue because of the reasoning of the original petition;

"Donald Trump should be allowed to enter the UK in his capacity as head of the US Government, but he should not be invited to make an official State Visit because it would cause embarrassment to Her Majesty the Queen."

Because... as much as I think Trump is an utter disaster... I also have a profound and deep-rooted distaste for The Queen / Royalty / Everything the very idea of "elite bloodlines" represents. I hate that **** to the very core. And it has been around much longer than Trump... and will still be around when Trump is long gone... so I just can't bring myself to sign that petition. "Embarrassment to Her Majesty the Queen". Barf. :umm2:.

[Jack_]

A petition for something that's already going to happen? Seems pretty pointless, but isn't democracy wonderful

[Northern Monkey]

:clap1: :cheer2: :clap2: :thumbs2:

[Livia]

It isn't pointless at all. We don't want anyone getting the impression that there is only one train of thought on this issue, do we.

[Northern Monkey]

Nearly 91000 sigs already

[DemolitionRed]

Nearly 91000 sigs already

They have a long way to go to beet 1,655,501

[Withano]

It isn't pointless at all. We don't want anyone getting the impression that there is only one train of thought on this issue, do we.

It is kinda pointless, the complete opposite of this petition exists.. Meaning this side of the argument would have been brought up by default as the opposing side of the initial debate.

Theyre not gonna have the same debate twice.

I suppose its useful to put numbers in perspective? 1.5m against trump doesnt mean much, but there being 15x more people against him than for him means a bit more.

[DemolitionRed]

It is kinda pointless, the complete opposite of this petition exists.. Meaning this side of the argument would have been brought up by default as the opposing side of the argument.

Theyre not gonna have the same debate twice.

I suppose its useful to put numbers in perspective? 1.5m against trump doesnt mean much, but there being 15x more people against him than for him means a bit more.

But there's going to be a lot more than that by the month of May.

[user104658]

It is kinda pointless, the complete opposite of this petition exists.. Meaning this side of the argument would have been brought up by default as the opposing side of the argument.

Theyre not gonna have the same debate twice.

I suppose its useful to put numbers in perspective? 1.5m against trump doesnt mean much, but there being 15x more people against him than for him means a bit more.

Well there is that. Parliament debating the "prevent" petition are obviously, by the very nature of debate, going to be debating both sides (and let's face it, are going to come down on the side of a state visit being approporiate). You're right that all it's going to do is put the numbers in perspective and, to be honest, I sort of feel like that's going to amount to this petition essentially shooting itself in the foot (by having a fraction of the numbers that the alternative is attracting).

[the truth]

ahh you can always rely on the rent a mob to come out chanting meaningless populist slogans and threatening democracy...I bet half the faces yesterday were those marching against the junior doctors contract. they dont talk they dont listen and discuss quietly and calmly, they scream shout bully and in some cases threaten and get abusive

1 million want to keep him out, now a petition to allow him entry is up to 90,000...but that means 62 million brits arent that bothered
strange how these 100,000s of protestors dont say much about the hate preachers, the 34000 people killed across the globe by terrorists last year, the despot dictators, the hidden abuses behind closed doors in our hospitals and care homes , why dont they march about the gp contract 2004 which allows all gp's to avoid out of hours work?...25000 people died in one year from undiagnosed blood clots in british hospitals per year.....but marching about that isnt quite as sexy as burning effagies of don trumps wigConfused

[Withano]

But there's going to be a lot more than that by the month of May.

Yeh, but even then, numbers are subjective, too many external factors like how many people are aware of the petitions, how many ignored both etc..
This way the petition against Trump can be directly compared to the petition for Trump, and the numbers now have context.
But to me, thats all the 2nd petition is good for.

[Livia]

If this petition supporting Trump's visit had started first, I wonder whether the anti-Trump people would have thought making their views known was a waste of time?

As far as I can see the petition supporting Trump's visit has not been going long but it's climbing up nicely, and the more people see it, the more people will sign it. I think it sends a good message to our biggest export customer, that no everyone in the UK thinks Trump should be singled out from all the other odious, questionable world leaders we entertain.

[user104658]

I don't know really. Two petitions - especially two petitions started at different times - can't really be considered a "poll" or anything even resembling one.

As Withano says - FAR too many variables. Unscientific and therefore meaningless. Then again you could probably say the same about ANY one-sided petition. All of these petition.parliament petitions would be much more meaningful if they had both "agree" and "disagree" options in the first place...

[Livia]

Well, the petition exists and now people who've had to listen to the endless rhetoric and histrionics since Trump was elected, have somewhere they can express their own view. That can only be good. Otherwise, just one side can harp on about how they have 1.5 million signatures and imagine theirs is the only voice. Let's see how this opposing petition goes, THEN we will have context because in the last half an hour it's risen from 89,000 odd signatures to 93,000 odd. It seems there are strong feelings on both sides.

[Withano]

If the for Trump petition ever takes over the amount of sigs on the against Trump petition, we can pretty much confirm that the UK are largely for him considering the time they were made tbf.

But theres a 16:1 ratio at the moment, and I think as of right now, we can only argue Trump is unwanted or the results are unclear.

[user104658]

If the for Trump petition ever takes over the amount of sigs on the against Trump petition, we can pretty much confirm that the UK are largely for him considering the time they were made tbf.

But theres a 16:1 ratio at the moment, and I think as of right now, we can only argue Trump is unwanted or the results are unclear.

I think the danger there though is that people would use that to try to argue that people are in general "pro Trump", whereas I think it's fairly likely that plenty of people who are largely anti-Trump (as a leader) would still accept that it's right / reasonable for him to be extended the same welcomes as any other elected president would have been.

[jaxie]

Sign the petition to support Trump's visit.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844

Where were the protests and petitions when Robert Mugabe had a state visit? And what about China? They have Human Rights abuses going back into history. There was a small protest but nothing on this scale.

We export more stuff to the US than to any other country. While that doesn't mean we should put up with any crap from the US, it does mean that we should think long and hard before we let a minority of people sour any kind of relationship with the US. Trump will not be president forevever, we should keep ourselves in a position to have a word when we don't agree with something instead of alienating ourselves completely ourselves.

Thank you Liv. Great post.

[Jack_]

If this petition supporting Trump's visit had started first, I wonder whether the anti-Trump people would have thought making their views known was a waste of time?

As far as I can see the petition supporting Trump's visit has not been going long but it's climbing up nicely, and the more people see it, the more people will sign it. I think it sends a good message to our biggest export customer, that no everyone in the UK thinks Trump should be singled out from all the other odious, questionable world leaders we entertain.

Well, no, because Theresa May has already made clear that the state visit will be going ahead. This petition would make sense if she'd said it wasn't, and consequently the other petition would then be pointless.

Again though, we live in a democracy so it's great to see people engaging their democratic right to sign even things like this. Just a shame the same sentiment can't be and isn't afforded to those who oppose other things, eh.

[jaxie]

They have a long way to go to beet 1,655,501

It's not a competition is it?

[Niamh.]

It's not a competition is it?

Of course it is :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

I think the danger there though is that people would use that to try to argue that people are in general "pro Trump", whereas I think it's fairly likely that plenty of people who are largely anti-Trump (as a leader) would still accept that it's right / reasonable for him to be extended the same welcomes as any other elected president would have been.

That is true and i think that category will be much higher than the pro-Trump one.

[Withano]

It's not a competition is it?

Not a close one :fan:

[MB.]

For the sake of balance I've just gone and signed the anti-Trump petition, so cheers for the reminder

[Kazanne]

For the sake of balance I've just gone and signed the anti-Trump petition, so cheers for the reminder

If you were that bothered you wouldn't have needed a reminder,are we being a tad childish here :hehe:

[jaxie]

Not a close one :fan:

Time will tell I suppose.

[Amy Jade]

I haven't signed either but I don't see much of a problem with him visiting us?

[arista]

If you were that bothered you wouldn't have needed a reminder,are we being a tad childish here :hehe:


Yes Rory Bremner
is needed
he is on tour, now

[arista]

HfkZQNePWFg

From Nov. 2016

[arista]

SQwSzRuvoYA


from USA


at 5:40mins
Two Secret service guards
rush on to stage to remove a
Wig bashing fella.

[reece(:]

For the sake of balance I've just gone and signed the anti-Trump petition, so cheers for the reminder
I did and went to the rally last night :clap1:

[arista]

FAPuEqfEMnA

Trump on down under
happy to be on down under TV
as the speak ENGLISH



Includes the "Banned"
USA ad

[Northern Monkey]

FAPuEqfEMnA

Trump on down under
happy to be on down under TV
as the speak ENGLISH



Includes the "Banned"
USA adThat ad is funny!

[arista]

That ad is funny!


Yes he should make a Movie

[Livia]

For the sake of balance I've just gone and signed the anti-Trump petition, so cheers for the reminder

Good. Although I don't agree with you I do uphold your right to your opinion and to voice it.

Heading for 110,000 signatures now. Creeping up, isn't it.

I think those opposing Trump and those... (I hesitate to say "supporting him" because I don't actually support him, any more than I supported Putin when he had a State visit... or when Mugabe did... or the Chinese...) and those who believe he should come because he is the president of the USA, is probably on a par numerically. However, as with Brexit, those against make the most noise, the squeaky wheel if you like. Those who find themselves in opposition to the noisy ones use the vote to voice their opinion. They did when the Tories unexpectedly gained a majority at the last general election, they did when we voted to leave Europe and they will now.

A discussion on this is difficult because those who oppose Trump intimate in what they write that if you aren't with them on this, then you're a hard-right, card-carrying, cross-burning fascist.

[Tom4784]

It does seem a bit pointless, surely not signing the other petition is essentially the same as saying you accept the visit?

Meh, I'm all for people sharing their views although this petition is ironically everything negative about what's been said about the other petition in the other thread.

[Livia]

Well, if there was only a pro-Trump's visit petition, I'm guessing that someone would feel duty-bound to make a anti-Trump's visit petition. No one would think that was pointless. I'm happy with that. Everyone gets a say so things don't seem so one-sided.

[DemolitionRed]

I did and went to the rally last night :clap1: Me too :hug:

[arista]

Dezzy would you mind if I wear
Trump Branded Clothing?

[jaxie]

Good. Although I don't agree with you I do uphold your right to your opinion and to voice it.

Heading for 110,000 signatures now. Creeping up, isn't it.

I think those opposing Trump and those... (I hesitate to say "supporting him" because I don't actually support him, any more than I supported Putin when he had a State visit... or when Mugabe did... or the Chinese...) and those who believe he should come because he is the president of the USA, is probably on a par numerically. However, as with Brexit, those against make the most noise, the squeaky wheel if you like. Those who find themselves in opposition to the noisy ones use the vote to voice their opinion. They did when the Tories unexpectedly gained a majority at the last general election, they did when we voted to leave Europe and they will now.

A discussion on this is difficult because those who oppose Trump intimate in what they write that if you aren't with them on this, then you're a hard-right, card-carrying, cross-burning fascist.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[the truth]

theyre all a disaster
simply have straight forward rates of income tax on a sliding scale
close loopholes for corporate tax evasion, seriously increase the fines , work hand in glove with all other nations to close these tax loopholes
hold councils accountable for the disgraceful waste and mismanagement
sack councillors who oversee huge losses
re the nhs simply invest money into getting people scanned easier and this saves a fortune in wasted medicines, wasted staff and blocked beds

tighten border control massively

[jaxie]

Are you sure that the left hasn't gone so far of the scale, that normal people just look far-right to you?

Here's a liberal guy Dave Rubin, who a couple of years ago would have called himself 'on the left', but now he constantly finds himself criticising the left. I'm guessing this is the kind of person you'd refer to as far-right, because of some of his opinions. He's a gay guy by the way and is married to another guy.

The left is no longer Liberal

Tq86Beh3T70

That was very interesting, thank you for sharing.

[Cherie]

I would say there is possibly one currently who is obviously far right and maybe another with leanings. 5 or 6 I can think of who are far left. Both sides seem to be quite rude to anyone they perceive as being the other way, their perceptions are often mistaken.

Personally I'm in the middle and lean slightly left. I don't feel that there is any political party who represents me. New Labour came close at some points and so did the Lib Dems. I don't believe in a god and I don't particularly like religion, but do believe in live and let live unless said religion has rules that do not give full equality to women. Unfortunately that applies to most religions which are run by men and enforce all kinds of rules upon women who have to live with them.

I am well aware there are some here who view me as on the right, and they are wrong. Mostly because I am strong supporter of Brexit which is quite amusing as you spoke about being a strong supporter of it too and obviously lean quite far left. In fact I would say my feelings of compassion for others is one of the reasons why I am so opposed to the EU.

Unfortunately those with a strong political leaning either way don't seem to listen much to what others are saying. And never see any balance in posts that don't agree with their position. People are far more complicated than that and politics isn't always why they feel the way they do.

I think you are mistaking 'right' with simply not sharing your left leaning passion.

Great post Jaxie, the way people are being pidgeon holed is ridiculous, I said recently my political leanings are in the middle and I was told I had splinters on my arse, I'd rather that, and I'd rather be able to see the positives from the right and the left than be leaning so far one way or the other to be practically hanging off the edge.

[Livia]

I would say there is possibly one currently who is obviously far right and maybe another with leanings. 5 or 6 I can think of who are far left. Both sides seem to be quite rude to anyone they perceive as being the other way, their perceptions are often mistaken.

Personally I'm in the middle and lean slightly left. I don't feel that there is any political party who represents me. New Labour came close at some points and so did the Lib Dems. I don't believe in a god and I don't particularly like religion, but do believe in live and let live unless said religion has rules that do not give full equality to women. Unfortunately that applies to most religions which are run by men and enforce all kinds of rules upon women who have to live with them.

I am well aware there are some here who view me as on the right, and they are wrong. Mostly because I am strong supporter of Brexit which is quite amusing as you spoke about being a strong supporter of it too and obviously lean quite far left. In fact I would say my feelings of compassion for others is one of the reasons why I am so opposed to the EU.

Unfortunately those with a strong political leaning either way don't seem to listen much to what others are saying. And never see any balance in posts that don't agree with their position. People are far more complicated than that and politics isn't always why they feel the way they do.

I think you are mistaking 'right' with simply not sharing your left leaning passion.

Great post Jaxie, the way people are being pidgeon holed is ridiculous, I said recently my political leanings are in the middle and I was told I had splinters on my arse, I'd rather that, and I'd rather be able to see the positives from the right and the left than be leaning so far one way or the other to be practically hanging off the edge.

Both great posts.

[Alf]

That was very interesting, thank you for sharing.You're welcome.

He has a chat/debate show on YT called The Rubin report, where he does one on one interviews/debates with some good opinionated political commentators.

[DemolitionRed]

Are you sure that the left hasn't gone so far of the scale, that normal people just look far-right to you?

Here's a liberal guy Dave Rubin, who a couple of years ago would have called himself 'on the left', but now he constantly finds himself criticising the left. I'm guessing this is the kind of person you'd refer to as far-right, because of some of his opinions. He's a gay guy by the way and is married to another guy.

The left is no longer Liberal



Interesting video Alf and no, I certainly don't think he's far right... anything but! I do in fact agree with a lot of what he's suggesting about the left (though the American Left and the British Left are uniquely different) but then so is Classical and Modern Liberalism.

Once or twice he crosses a line into Moderate Libertarianism. Nothing wrong with that but when it comes to the vote, because Liberal/Libertarianism ideologies are so varied and hugely individual, they will always come over as a little vague.

[DemolitionRed]

Great post Jaxie, the way people are being pidgeon holed is ridiculous, I said recently my political leanings are in the middle and I was told I had splinters on my arse, I'd rather that, and I'd rather be able to see the positives from the right and the left than be leaning so far one way or the other to be practically hanging off the edge.

Was that something you felt I said after reading one of my blogs?

[Cherie]

Was that something you felt I said after reading one of my blogs?

I don't think I have ever read one of your blogs, I don't even know where the blogs are :laugh: I think it might have been Kizzy said it

[Northern Monkey]

Great post Jaxie, the way people are being pidgeon holed is ridiculous, I said recently my political leanings are in the middle and I was told I had splinters on my arse, I'd rather that, and I'd rather be able to see the positives from the right and the left than be leaning so far one way or the other to be practically hanging off the edge.

Don't worry i've got splinters in my arse too.
I honestly don't know who i'd vote for now in a GE.I need Labour to get a sensible leader.I'm in no mans land.I like parts of what the Tories stand for and i like parts of Corbyns vision but the last couple of times i've found myself identifying mostly with UKIP.The Lib Dems are dead to me.I honestly can't see me voting next GE.

[MTVN]

I can understand the sentiment but it doesn't really make sense to petition a government for something that is going to happen already. It's not like this is just seeking expressions of support for the visit - the whole point of a petition is that you are asking the government to do something. It's got enough signatures now for Parliament to debate it but what are they going to debate exactly? The only thing they can do is repeat the debate that they will already have after the first petition.

The wording/spelling/grammar really needs to be sorted out as well:

Donald Trump should be invited to make an official State Visit because he is the leader of a free world and U.K. is a country that supports free speech and does not believe that people that appose our point of view should be gagged.


:umm2:

[jaxie]

Don't worry i've got splinters in my arse too.
I honestly don't know who i'd vote for now in a GE.I need Labour to get a sensible leader.I'm in no mans land.I like parts of what the Tories stand for and i like parts of Corbyns vision but the last couple of times i've found myself identifying mostly with UKIP.The Lib Dems are dead to me.I honestly can't see me voting next GE.

I'm in a similar place. We should be able to support Labour but they have completely lost their way in my view.

[Shaun]

I can understand the sentiment but it doesn't really make sense to petition a government for something that is going to happen already.

Pretty much sums up my view on this too.

[Brillopad]

You're welcome.

He has a chat/debate show on YT called The Rubin report, where he does one on one interviews/debates with some good opinionated political commentators.

Very informative video - quite eye opening In many ways.

[DemolitionRed]

I don't think I have ever read one of your blogs, I don't even know where the blogs are :laugh: I think it might have been Kizzy said it

Hehe ok

I wrote a blog called 'Fence Sitting' and it went something like...
You know what happens when you sit on the fence? You get splinters in your arse and less chance to choose which side you land.

The view from the fence is usually pretty good, you can see both sides evenly. But it is sometimes uncomfortable as it forces you to examine your own beliefs as well as the beliefs of others.

It is far easier to jump off the fence to one side and then hate those on the other side, rather than it is to search for co-operation and compromise between...


Edited to add: I wish I was more of a fence sitter. Its hard work on this side of the fence!

[Cherie]

Hehe ok

I wrote a blog called 'Fence Sitting' and it went something like...
You know what happens when you sit on the fence? You get splinters in your arse and less chance to choose which side you land.

The view from the fence is usually pretty good, you can see both sides evenly. But it is sometimes uncomfortable as it forces you to examine your own beliefs as well as the beliefs of others.

It is far easier to jump off the fence to one side and then hate those on the other side, rather than it is to search for co-operation and compromise between...


Edited to add: I wish I was more of a fence sitter. Its hard work on this side of the fence!

I found it after you mentioned it, a good read DR

[DemolitionRed]

I found it after you mentioned it, a good read DR

Thanks :blush:

[joeysteele]

Sign the petition to support Trump's visit.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844

Where were the protests and petitions when Robert Mugabe had a state visit? And what about China? They have Human Rights abuses going back into history. There was a small protest but nothing on this scale.

We export more stuff to the US than to any other country. While that doesn't mean we should put up with any crap from the US, it does mean that we should think long and hard before we let a minority of people sour any kind of relationship with the US. Trump will not be president forevever, we should keep ourselves in a position to have a word when we don't agree with something instead of alienating ourselves completely ourselves.

I agree.

I don't like the man at all but have decided not to vote on either petition.

I do think the State visit offer is premature but let him come, see the demonstrations.

Hopefully he will also be told by our PM and govt. along with other UK parties of the far less acceptable policies he advocates.

[Kizzy]

Great post Jaxie, the way people are being pidgeon holed is ridiculous, I said recently my political leanings are in the middle and I was told I had splinters on my arse, I'd rather that, and I'd rather be able to see the positives from the right and the left than be leaning so far one way or the other to be practically hanging off the edge.

Yep that would be me, it was a tongue in cheek remark, no need to get all triggered snowflake :laugh:

I'm not 'far left' either, so if I have to be pigeonholed so do you.. balance and all that.

We have 'entertained' some questionable leaders, how many were western?

As if anyone is surprised there's a trump loving underbelly in the UK, theres one literally on my doorstep :/

Some people are claiming that people who voted to leave didn’t know what they were voting for, Stuart Andrew, Tory MP for Pudsey says. That shows some complete arrogance and real misunderstanding of people’s concerns and frustrations, he says.

Claims that people voted to leave out of racism or prejudice really angered him. “That is frankly disgraceful,” he says. “We are not little Englanders. We are now big Britainers.”


:joker: :joker: :joker:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/blog/live/2017/jan/31/article-50-debate-brexit-government-lying-about-how-easy-brexit-will-be-says-owen-smith-politics-live

[Liberty4eva]

This petition thing is silly. A part of me wants to see the uk parliament ban trump. Do you know what he'll do? He will ban all the all members who voted for it from the usa. Now that would be hillarious.

[Kizzy]

Better get his red pen out then...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jan/31/parliament-debate-donald-trump-state-visit-16m-sign-petition

[Tom4784]

This petition thing is silly. A part of me wants to see the uk parliament ban trump. Do you know what he'll do? He will ban all the all members who voted for it from the usa. Now that would be hillarious.

I'm sure it'll be deeply upsetting to be banned from the US for the few months Trump will be in office.

[Brillopad]

But there's going to be a lot more than that by the month of May.

If you say something enough times maybe you will actually believe it - not sure about the rest of us. :joker:

[Ashley.]

As much as I dislike the self-righteous prat, I'm anything but petty, and will not be signing petitions to spite Trump OR those trying to oppose him.

And yes, 1.5 million have signed that petition thus far, presumably more now... But 60 million haven't. Surely that in itself is evidence enough without the need for a second petition.

[Kazanne]

This petition thing is silly. A part of me wants to see the uk parliament ban trump. Do you know what he'll do? He will ban all the all members who voted for it from the usa. Now that would be hillarious.

My brother lives in America Liberty,they better not ban me:wavey: I am happy for Trump to come after all we've let in much worse.:wavey:

[Withano]

My brother lives in America Liberty,they better not ban me:wavey: I am happy for Trump to come after all we've let in much worse.:wavey:

@MarcONeil

[susie q]

I agree.

I don't like the man at all but have decided not to vote on either petition.

I do think the State visit offer is premature but let him come, see the demonstrations.

Hopefully he will also be told by our PM and govt. along with other UK parties of the far less acceptable policies he advocates.

This is my position too. I dont understand why it was necessary to bring him over so soon, other presidents have nearly always been a year or two into their first term in office before their first visit. I would far rather that government had continued to concentrate on Brexit, not only from the economic side of things but also other issues such as the environment and national security, and I do think that Trump, could well have contributed to an increase in ISIS recruitment. Personally I would have been happier if the visit was offered for a later date. But I will not be signing either of the petitions, because it would be futile, and it would be good for both Trump and our government to see that not all of us support his policies.

[Alf]

Ignore the haters Donnie-boy, most of us are very hospitable in this country, it's just a few bad eggs.

[Vicky.]

I haven't signed either but I don't see much of a problem with him visiting us?

This..plus all those petitions do is get stuff talked about in parliament right? Well May has already decided this is happening, so surely the 'debate' will be one maybe 2 SNP members protesting and that will be it..it will still happen. Unless I am misunderstanding the petitions of course.

[Vicky.]

Great post Jaxie, the way people are being pidgeon holed is ridiculous, I said recently my political leanings are in the middle and I was told I had splinters on my arse, I'd rather that, and I'd rather be able to see the positives from the right and the left than be leaning so far one way or the other to be practically hanging off the edge.

I tend to be quite left on a lot of issues, but tbh as a whole I flip flop around on stuff. Some of my views on stuff would horrify 'lefties' whilst others would rile 'righties'. So yeah...I actually cannot imagine being completely right or left. Though I have been accused of being both far right and far left...its a bit daft

[Brillopad]

I tend to be quite left on a lot of issues, but tbh as a whole I flip flop around on stuff. Some of my views on stuff would horrify 'lefties' whilst others would rile 'righties'. So yeah...I actually cannot imagine being completely right or left. Though I have been accused of being both far right and far left...its a bit daft

What a nice honest post. Did make me laugh at the end there. :joker:

[the truth]

263000 want trump to come, not a bad total in just 2 days

[DemolitionRed]

Ignore the haters Donnie-boy, most of us are very hospitable in this country, it's just a few bad eggs.

You're only saying that because you agree... even like what Trump is doing. The reason I protest is, I hate what he's doing and I want to send a clear message to Farage and May that Britain would never stand for this sort of nonsense.

You may think I'm wrong but for a Brit, you're in the minority.

[Alf]

You're only saying that because you agree... even like what Trump is doing. The reason I protest is, I hate what he's doing and I want to send a clear message to Farage and May that Britain would never stand for this sort of nonsense.

You may think I'm wrong but for a Brit, you're in the minority.How about you protest for me then?

[Northern Monkey]

How about you protest for me then?

:joker:

[Mystic Mock]

Sign the petition to support Trump's visit.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/178844

Where were the protests and petitions when Robert Mugabe had a state visit? And what about China? They have Human Rights abuses going back into history. There was a small protest but nothing on this scale.

We export more stuff to the US than to any other country. While that doesn't mean we should put up with any crap from the US, it does mean that we should think long and hard before we let a minority of people sour any kind of relationship with the US. Trump will not be president forevever, we should keep ourselves in a position to have a word when we don't agree with something instead of alienating ourselves completely ourselves.

The difference is that the US is a close ally for us, and the fact that his already tried to stop legal immigrants from being able to come back to his own country shows that he has dangerous tendancies which could end up being a more mild version of China/Zimbabwe.

However having said that, after Brexit it's a necessary evil to have to allign with Trump as even though we'll get the worst deals in most things, we do need allies and America will at least help us a little bit, although I'm honestly not sure for how long he'll want to do that though as his aim seems to be having America isolate itself from everybody else.

For the UK we sadly do need Trump, I also think that India wouldn't be a bad idea either as building blocks.

[jaxie]

You're only saying that because you agree... even like what Trump is doing. The reason I protest is, I hate what he's doing and I want to send a clear message to Farage and May that Britain would never stand for this sort of nonsense.

You may think I'm wrong but for a Brit, you're in the minority.

Farage isn't in government, hasn't he retired from politics? :shrug:

[Mystic Mock]

I'm in a similar place. We should be able to support Labour but they have completely lost their way in my view.

The UK is in a desperate need of a new party with fresh ideas that aren't too far right or left, but will still have interesting ideas that will give our three main parties a kick up the backside.

[Kizzy]

Farage isn't in government, hasn't he retired from politics? :shrug:

Then why is he everywhere.... If we have elected representatives to speak for us why is this unelected echo chamber all over the media?

Who's idea was that? hmm :/

[jaxie]

Then why is he everywhere.... If we have elected representatives to speak for us why is this unelected echo chamber all over the media?

Who's idea was that? hmm :/

You'd have to ask the press who fete him wouldn't you. Why are you asking me? :shrug:

[Kizzy]

You'd have to ask the press who fete him wouldn't you. Why are you asking me? :shrug:

It was a rhetorical question tbh.

[Northern Monkey]

Well Farage is powerless but he is still relevant as he gave us the gift of Brexit.And he's still standing up and slinging mud at the EU leaders in Brussels.

[Brillopad]

Well Farage is powerless but he is still relevant as he gave us the gift of Brexit.And he's still standing up and slinging mud at the EU leaders in Brussels.

Here here!

[Livia]

You're only saying that because you agree... even like what Trump is doing. The reason I protest is, I hate what he's doing and I want to send a clear message to Farage and May that Britain would never stand for this sort of nonsense.

You may think I'm wrong but for a Brit, you're in the minority.

How have you decided that you are in the majority? Have you based it on an internet petition? I think you'll find that being a noisy minority doesn't make you a righteous majority.


Well Farage is powerless but he is still relevant as he gave us the gift of Brexit.And he's still standing up and slinging mud at the EU leaders in Brussels.

For God's sake Money... stop talking sense in this thread. You'll kill the fascinating conversation.

[jennyjuniper]

Nearly 91000 sigs already

I've just added mine.:wavey: