Maddie McCann’s parents lose court appeal

[Niamh.]

to silence cop who claims they covered up daughter’s death
Goncalo Amaral had worked on the investigation to find Maddie after she disappeared in May 2007

MADELEINE McCann’s parents have lost their new court appeal to silence the ex-cop who claims they covered up their daughter’s death, Portuguese media reports.

Portuguese Supreme Court judges met to resolve the couple’s fight against a lower court’s decision last April to reverse their 2015 libel win against Goncalo Amaral.

The hearing took place in private in Lisbon this morning.

The decision is a major milestone in Gerry and Kate McCann’s eight-year fight over a book written by Amaral, who led the initial hunt when then-three-year-old Madeleine vanished from their Algarve holiday apartment in May 2007.

Amaral was ordered to pay Kate and Gerry £430,000 plus interest in damages after losing round one of their libel battle in April 2015 over his hurtful book ‘The Truth of the Lie.’

Appeal judges reversed the initial ruling by a court in Lisbon in April last year, siding with the former police chief and overturning a ban on his book.

The decision sparked a fresh appeal by the McCanns to the country’s highest law court.

The couple could now face a huge legal bill, which had been frozen until the outcome of the final appeal.

The McCanns’ Portuguese lawyer Isabel Duarte lodged the couple’s new appeal last May after vowing to fight the U-turn by judges over Amaral’s book.

Criticising the ruling in favour of the ex-police chief, which a friend of the McCanns said had left them “seething,” she said: “This decision was an appreciation of the law and not the facts.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2750157/maddie-mccanns-parents-lose-court-appeal-to-silence-cop-who-claims-they-covered-up-daughters-death/

[Ronald.]

Always thought they had something to do with it. R.

[user104658]

"his hurtful book". Unbiased reporting from The Sun as usual, then.

Don't worry Gerry, Murdoch will help with those legal bills in exchange for a few more exclusives for the dribbling Sun readers to lap up.

[Niamh.]

"his hurtful book". Unbiased reporting from The Sun as usual, then.

Don't worry Gerry, Murdoch will help with those legal bills in exchange for a few more exclusives for the dribbling Sun readers to lap up.

I know, it's baffling the amount of sympathy they get and lack of suspicion when there's literally no evidence to back up the kidnap theory but there is some to back up the "she died in the apartment" theory

[chuff me dizzy]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2750157/maddie-mccanns-parents-lose-court-appeal-to-silence-cop-who-claims-they-covered-up-daughters-death/?CMP=spklr-_-Editorial-_-TWITTER-_-TheSun-_-20170131-_-794237810

[chuff me dizzy]

Nearly 10 long years of fighting for Maddies right to justice is surely at an end I think arrests will soon follow

[Niamh.]

Nearly 10 long years of fighting for Maddies right to justice is surely at an end I think arrests will soon follow

Do you think? By who though?

[chuff me dizzy]

I know, it's baffling the amount of sympathy they get and lack of suspicion when there's literally no evidence to back up the kidnap theory but there is some to back up the "she died in the apartment" theory

Last online poll showed over 90% DIDNT believe Mcs ,only the press has been behind them

[Niamh.]

Last online poll showed over 90% DIDNT believe Mcs ,only the press has been behind them

the Press and the bloody British police, dodgy dodgy dodgy

[chuff me dizzy]

Do you think? By who though?

SY have dragged their heels for a couple of years now, the strong feeling in Maddie groups is, they have done this to see outcome of this appeal

[Niamh.]

SY have dragged their heels for a couple of years now, the strong feeling in Maddie groups is, they have done this to see outcome of this appeal

Oh really so you think it will actually be by the British police and not the Portuguese?

[Cherie]

LT will be most displeased :oh:

[Niamh.]

LT will be most displeased :oh:

I almost feel like I'm baiting him with this thread because he's banned from SDs atm I'm sorry LT (not sorry) :fan:

[chuff me dizzy]

the Press and the bloody British police, dodgy dodgy dodgy

Met are as bent as .....

[chuff me dizzy]

Oh really so you think it will actually be by the British police and not the Portuguese?

Portuguese have also got a review ongoing Ive always believed Maddies justice will come from Portugal ...crafty Mcs have moved money out of the "Fund" this week into an investment account

[Cherie]

I almost feel like I'm baiting him with this thread because he's banned from SDs atm I'm sorry LT (not sorry) :fan:

Oh I wondered where he was, I didn't know this was a thing banning from a section, and how do we know who is banned and how long for, or is it a secret :fan:

[chuff me dizzy]

This is Amaral documentary Mcs tried to ban which outlines the book ,which is based on official police files


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXpFm-kDFWk

[Niamh.]

Portuguese have also got a review ongoing Ive always believed Maddies justice will come from Portugal ...crafty Mcs have moved money out of the "Fund" this week into an investment account

I hope it does come from Portugal, although they should have done much more and not allowed themselves to be bullied

Oh I wondered where he was, I didn't know this was a thing banning from a section, and how do we know who is banned and how long for, or is it a secret :fan:

I actually don't even know, it's a new thing, i will find out though

[Cherie]

I hope it does come from Portugal, although they should have done much more and not allowed themselves to be bullied



I actually don't even know, it's a new thing, i will find out though

Is LT being used as a guinea pig :omgno:

[chuff me dizzy]

I hope it does come from Portugal, although they should have done much more and not allowed themselves to be bullied



I actually don't even know, it's a new thing, i will find out though

Political inference from Gordon Brown ,We are having a party in all Maddie groups ,nearly 10 yr its taken for the truth to come out, 10 yrs everyone has fought for this little girl its an amazing feeling that the end could be just around the corner

[user104658]

The problem is, at this point, so much time has passed that I can't see there being enough evidence for them to convict anyone of anything.

[jaxie]

We really don't know what happened and it just seems hard to blame the parents specially if all they really did do was leave her.

I never would have left my children like that, where we went, they went. I found it shocking in itself that parents left them asleep in a room and went off to eat.

[Niamh.]

We really don't know what happened and it just seems hard to blame the parents specially if all they really did do was leave her.

I never would have my children like that, where we went, they went.

They had cadavar scent in the apartment, on Kates clothes, they had caught them out in lies regarding that night too which is very very odd if it was two parents whose child was genuinely kidnapped

[jaxie]

They had cadavar scent in the apartment, on Kates clothes, they had caught them out in lies regarding that night too which is very very odd if it was two parents whose child was genuinely kidnapped

I didn't know that, that seems very odd. But what happened to her? They weren't locals, how would you hide a body for all these years?

[Niamh.]

I didn't know that, that seems very odd. But what happened to her? They weren't locals, how would you hide a body for all these years?

I don't know Jaxie, it just seems to be more the way the evidence points

[chuff me dizzy]

We really don't know what happened and it just seems hard to blame the parents specially if all they really did do was leave her.

I never would have left my children like that, where we went, they went. I found it shocking in itself that parents left them asleep in a room and went off to eat.

Maddie was never left and was dead before the night they reported her missing ,neglect was Mcs alibi without claiming they had left the children, they couldn't claim Maddie had been abducted

[chuff me dizzy]

I didn't know that, that seems very odd. But what happened to her? They weren't locals, how would you hide a body for all these years?

Lots of building work going on in PDL ,but my idea is Maddies body was taken to Huelva where there are natural acid baths ,read about the Huelva trip here


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1564401/Madeleine-McCann-Parents-suspicious-trip.html

[user104658]

I didn't know that, that seems very odd. But what happened to her? They weren't locals, how would you hide a body for all these years?

They wouldn't have contacted the authorities immediately and gave themselves time in the short term; also confusing the search by lying about the details. Beyond that... not to be grim but... they are doctors and would know how to make a body disappear permanently.

In my opinion it's honestly all the more evidence FOR that theory. Some random local paedophile / child abductor had the ability and knowhow to make a child completely disappear without a trace, leaving behind ZERO evidence?

[Ellen]

If her death was accidental as the police believe why didnt the McCanns report it has an accident rather than go to all the lengths they went to? The most that could have happened was them getting in trouble for neglect by leaving the children alone for a few hrs.

[Niamh.]

They wouldn't have contacted the authorities immediately and gave themselves time in the short term; also confusing the search by lying about the details. Beyond that... not to be grim but... they are doctors and would know how to make a body disappear permanently.

In my opinion it's honestly all the more evidence FOR that theory. Some random local paedophile / child abductor had the ability and knowhow to make a child completely disappear without a trace, leaving behind ZERO evidence?

Exactly and the fact that one minute the McCanns said the window had been tampered with and was opened, this was proved to be incorrect, then suddenly they'd left the patio door unlocked when originally they said it was locked, I mean if your child had genuinely disappeared you would just tell the truth in order to find your child and worry about the consequences of what you did wrong another time

[Niamh.]

If her death was accidental as the police believe why didnt the McCanns report it has an accident rather than go to all the lengths they went to? The most that could have happened was them getting in trouble for neglect by leaving the children alone for a few hrs.

Unless anything was found in her system to make her sleep, then they would probably both lose their careers as doctors and possibly their other 2 children not to mention their reputations and their lives as they know them. Also possibly face jail time

[the truth]

they are truly horrific people

[Ellen]

Unless anything was found in her system to make her sleep, then they would probably both lose their careers as doctors and possibly their other 2 children not to mention their reputations and their lives as they know them

I think they found Calpol in her system, app they used to give this to the children most nights to help them sleep. I dont think i would have been thinking about my career or anything other than my child if i found her dead.

[Niamh.]

I think they found Calpol in her system, app they used to give this to the children most nights to help them sleep. I dont think i would have been thinking about my career or anything other than my child if i found her dead.

How could they have found Calpol in her system when they never found her/her body? You may not have thought about your career but people are different, if Maddie was already dead nothing they could do would bring her back so maybe they decided not to risk losing their other two children as well and their careers and possibly end up in Prison?

I would not have left my children(babies really lets be honest) alone while I went out eating and drinking but they were obviously ok to do this so there you go, you can't decide how people will act based on what you personally would do

[Kizzy]

I think they found Calpol in her system, app they used to give this to the children most nights to help them sleep. I dont think i would have been thinking about my career or anything other than my child if i found her dead.

And these were doctors?....

Calpol is used to bring down a temperature in poorly kids...they're not knockout drops, like any painkiller you can build up a resistance to it, meaning when the kids really are poorly it won't work.

I think this is a fantastic result, I look forward to hearing the 'deleted scenes' of the police interviews from all parties involved hopefully they will come out soon.

[Ellen]

How could they have found Calpol in her system when they never found her/her body? You may not have thought about your career but people are different, if Maddie was already dead nothing they could do would bring her back so maybe they decided not to risk losing their other two children as well and their careers and possibly end up in Prison?

I would not have left my children(babies really lets be honest) alone while I went out eating and drinking but they were obviously ok to do this so there you go, you can't decide how people will act based on what you personally would do

Sorry I heard it wrong from the video, the police were informed that the children had been given Calpol.
I like you would not have left my children/babies alone while i went out either, all i am saying is they went to some extreme measures and told a lot of lies to cover up leaving their children alone where one died.

[Niamh.]

Sorry I heard it wrong from the video, the police were informed that the children had been given Calpol.
I like you would not have left my children/babies alone while i went out either, all i am saying is they went to some extreme measures and told a lot of lies to cover up leaving their children alone where one died.

Well that's what people who are trying to cover something up do isn't it? They lie :shrug:

[Ellen]

And these were doctors?....

Calpol is used to bring down a temperature in poorly kids...they're not knockout drops, like any painkiller you can build up a resistance to it, meaning when the kids really are poorly it won't work.

I think this is a fantastic result, I look forward to hearing the 'deleted scenes' of the police interviews from all the party involved hopefully they will come out soon.

Yeah, it doesnt look good giving that stuff to your kids/babies to make them sleepy, all so they could go out & drink/eat with friends.

[arista]

Yes debated on Ch5HD AM Live
Matt said you roll the dice
with Lawyers

[user104658]

Unless anything was found in her system to make her sleep, then they would probably both lose their careers as doctors and possibly their other 2 children not to mention their reputations and their lives as they know them. Also possibly face jail time

Doping with over-the-counter antihisthemines, it's so scarily common, especially with the upper middle classes. People talk about it like it's a normal thing to do :umm2:. My belief is that this is the one and ONLY reason that the Maddie story ever became a story. Her death was almost certainly accidental and tragic, and they would simply have called the authorities and it would have been ruled as such. It would have gotten a few column inches in The Sun simply because it happened abroad... and that would have been the end of it.

But if she had drugs in her system, that turns an accident into manslaughter, they couldn't let a postmortem be performed, and so they had to create an entire story that would explain her being physically missing.

[Niamh.]

Doping with over-the-counter antihisthemines, it's so scarily common, especially with the upper middle classes. People talk about it like it's a normal thing to do :umm2:. My belief is that this is the one and ONLY reason that the Maddie story ever became a story. Her death was almost certainly accidental and tragic, and they would simply have called the authorities and it would have been ruled as such. It would have gotten a few column inches in The Sun simply because it happened abroad... and that would have been the end of it.

But if she had drugs in her system, that turns an accident into manslaughter, they couldn't let a postmortem be performed, and so they had to create an entire story that would explain her being physically missing.

Yep seems like the most likely scenario really

[Brillopad]

Yeah, it doesnt look good giving that stuff to your kids/babies to make them sleepy, all so they could go out & drink/eat with friends.

Is it likely that two doctors, who would have been fully aware of their daugher's medical and allergy status as well as any family history of any such issues, would have accidentally overdosed her. I don't buy it.

[Niamh.]

Is it likely that two doctors, who would have been fully aware of their daugher's medical and allergy status as well as any family history of any such issues, would have accidentally overdosed her. I don't buy it.

I don't think that's what people think, that she overdosed and died. Goncalo Amarals theory is that she woke up, drowsy from sleep and having some medication in her system and had a fall, hit her head and died

[Brillopad]

I don't think that's what people think, that she overdosed and died. Goncalo Amarals theory is that she woke up, drowsy from sleep and having some medication in her system and had a fall, hit her head and died

I don't know, without some evidence of that it sounds like clutching at straws to me.

Maybe in one sense it would be preferable to know that she didn't suffer like she may have done if taken, but awful for her parents if this line of thought that they were somehow involved proves to be wrong. Can't imagine that, it would feel like the abuse of bereaved parents. I prefer to remain optimistic on this one.

[Niamh.]

I don't know, without some evidence of that it sounds like clutching at straws to me.

Maybe in one sense it would be preferable to know that she didn't suffer like she may have done if taken, but awful for her parents if this line of thought that they were somehow involved proves to be wrong. Can't imagine that, it would feel like the abuse of bereaved parents. I prefer to remain optimistic on this one.

Yeah, I get that and as a parent I really do but with this one there just seems to be more pointing to them being involved than not, they've lied about that night and changed their stories numerous times plus those cadavar/blood dogs found cadavar scent on Kates clothes and in the wardrobe of their apartment. Also, i believe they also found blood on the floor behind the couch. And in cases like this it usually ends up being a family member who knows something or was involved

[joeysteele]

Maddie was never left and was dead before the night they reported her missing ,neglect was Mcs alibi without claiming they had left the children, they couldn't claim Maddie had been abducted

On this issue, I regard all your points as really strong and I know you have really analysed the events,during and afterwards too.

Everything you say is compelling and you by your.efforts have been very convincing to me.

[user104658]

I don't know, without some evidence of that it sounds like clutching at straws to me.

Maybe in one sense it would be preferable to know that she didn't suffer like she may have done if taken, but awful for her parents if this line of thought that they were somehow involved proves to be wrong. Can't imagine that, it would feel like the abuse of bereaved parents. I prefer to remain optimistic on this one.

I get how people can see it as clutching at straws... until you consider the alternative.

Which is that someone managed to sneak into the room and take her, unseen, unheard, not one witness, in the immediate area or in fact the whole town, and she was discovered missing fairly quickly and a search started immediately and found absolutely no trace of anyone. AND the person who took her left behind NO evidence of any kind. Not a fingerprint, not a footprint, not a hair. And the McCanns claimed that he came in through a window and then changed the story when that was found to be impossible.

Unless she was kidnapped by a Navy SEAL ... their story is clutching at straws. There's no evidence of it whatsoever... it's complete fantasy.

Also not saying they overdosed her, in fact more likely they were careful giving only a small dose, which would be why she still woke up, but in a groggy and confused state, and liable to get into an accident.

[Kizzy]

Put them on Jeremy Kyle! He'll have it sorted before you can say 'shattap'!!

[the truth]

I don't think that's what people think, that she overdosed and died. Goncalo Amarals theory is that she woke up, drowsy from sleep and having some medication in her system and had a fall, hit her head and died
yep sounds about right

[Black Dagger]

Bored of these killers now.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Honestly, she just needs to go away.

:nono:

she will never stop looking for her child

[Denver]

:nono:

she will never stop looking for her child

She never started looking as she knows where Maddie is

[Niamh.]

She never started looking as she knows where Maddie is

they never even searched for her the night she "allegedly" disappeared

[Crimson Dynamo]

She never started looking as she knows where Maddie is

incorrect

[Crimson Dynamo]

they never even searched for her the night she "allegedly" disappeared

of course they did, frantically as any parent would do when your child has been snatched from under your nose in a split second by a paedo

[Niamh.]

of course they did, frantically as any parent would do when your child has been snatched from under your nose in a split second by a paedo

split second? :laugh: oh stop

[Liam-]

Wasn't she out playing tennis the morning after she was reported 'missing'? some search party she was holding :hehe:

[Denver]

if it was a pedo they would have took the youngest 2 who wouldn't remember anything

[Niamh.]

if it was a pedo they would have took the youngest 2 who wouldn't remember anything

kates reaction on discovering one of her kids was missing was to run off and leave the other two kids alone in the apartment .........

[Denver]

kates reaction on discovering one of her kids was missing was to run off and leave the other two kids alone in the apartment .........

That is the perfect mother there Niamh

[Crimson Dynamo]

kates reaction on discovering one of her kids was missing was to run off and leave the other two kids alone in the apartment .........

run off?

run off looking for her child do you mean?

[Niamh.]

run off?

run off looking for her child do you mean?

Nope, run off to tell her drinking buddies that she was gone

[Crimson Dynamo]

Nope, run off to tell her drinking buddies that she was gone

if that is indeed true then that would make sense to get everyone to look

[Niamh.]

if that is indeed true then that would make sense to get everyone to look

but they didn't though :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

but they didn't though :laugh:

they did, they made a quick check in the resort and then called the cops as anyone would

[Niamh.]

they did, they made a quick check in the resort and then called the cops as anyone would

nope

[Crimson Dynamo]

Kate McCann was next to check on the children, at 10pm. She ran back to the restaurant moments later, saying Madeleine was missing. The McCanns and their friends made a quick search of the resort, but after finding no sign of Madeleine the police were called at 10.14pm.

Crucially, however, the apartment was not initially treated as a crime scene, meaning around 20 people went in and out before it was sealed off, contaminating potential evidence. Roadblocks were not put in place until 10am the next day, border guards were not informed for hours and Interpol did not put out a global missing persons alert for five days.

It meant that the most crucial time of any missing persons investigation – the first 24 hours – was largely squandered

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/madeleine-mccann-latest-are-police-any-closer-to-knowing-the-tru/

[Niamh.]

Kate McCann was next to check on the children, at 10pm. She ran back to the restaurant moments later, saying Madeleine was missing. The McCanns and their friends made a quick search of the resort, but after finding no sign of Madeleine the police were called at 10.14pm.

Crucially, however, the apartment was not initially treated as a crime scene, meaning around 20 people went in and out before it was sealed off, contaminating potential evidence. Roadblocks were not put in place until 10am the next day, border guards were not informed for hours and Interpol did not put out a global missing persons alert for five days.

It meant that the most crucial time of any missing persons investigation – the first 24 hours – was largely squandered

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/madeleine-mccann-latest-are-police-any-closer-to-knowing-the-tru/

There is no evidence that anyone took her.......... and it was all the McCanns people who contaminated the crime scene

[jaxie]

I'm not sure that cadaver smell at the scene proves anything really, on reflection whoever took her could have killed her at the scene.

Going to get her husband who was presumably with the friends was probably just a knee jerk, isn't your partner the first on you'd think of to tell? If your child was missing I'd imagine there would be some panic.

[Niamh.]

I'm not sure that cadaver smell at the scene proves anything really, on reflection whoever took her could have killed her at the scene.

Going to get her husband who was presumably with the friends was probably just a knee jerk, isn't your partner the first on you'd think of to tell? If your child was missing I'd imagine there would be some panic.

Why would someone break in (not break in sorry walk in through an unlocked door) Just to kill a child and then run off with a dead childs body? That makes no sense at all

[Niamh.]

actually, I think read that a person has to be dead a few hours before the smell of cadaver is omitted so that theory of someone killing her there wouldn't work with the time frames the McCanns gave

[jaxie]

Why would someone break in (not break in sorry walk in through an unlocked door) Just to kill a child and then run off with a dead childs body? That makes no sense at all

There are opportunist criminals and the death could have just as easily be an accident by a third party as by the parents. Someone could have tried to abduct her and killed her during, maybe not realised she was dead and taken her anyway. It could have been a robbery that went wrong and the person could have panicked and took her body to hide it? There are other feasible scenarios than the parents did it.

IDK I am very uncomfortable with the flow of this thread that the parents must have done it. Losing your child must be devastating, even if it was an accident related to them. Seems like enough punishment without speculating about their potential guilt. I can only imagine the pain.

Not that I'm saying any child should be sedated at bedtime if that is at all in the scenario of what happened. My kids only had medicine for a fever, I would never have dreamed of sedating them and that seems a terrible thing to do but again it is just speculation.

[jaxie]

actually, I think read that a person has to be dead a few hours before the smell of cadaver is omitted so that theory of someone killing her there wouldn't work with the time frames the McCanns gave

I had a very quick look but I can't really see anything on when a body starts to have a cadaver smell.

The things we talk about!

[Niamh.]

There are opportunist criminals and the death could have just as easily be an accident by a third party as by the parents. Someone could have tried to abduct her and killed her during, maybe not realised she was dead and taken her anyway. It could have been a robbery that went wrong and the person could have panicked and took her body to hide it? There are other feasible scenarios than the parents did it.

IDK I am very uncomfortable with the flow of this thread that the parents must have done it. Losing your child must be devastating, even if it was an accident related to them. Seems like enough punishment without speculating about their potential guilt. I can only imagine the pain.

Not that I'm saying any child should be sedated at bedtime if that is at all in the scenario of what happened. My kids only had medicine for a fever, I would never have dreamed of sedating them and that seems a terrible thing to do but again it is just speculation.

And what about justice for the child? Look if it makes you uncomfortable then you don't need to talk about it but if people don't talk about it, two criminals could walk free

[Niamh.]

I had a very quick look but I can't really see anything on when a body starts to have a cadaver smell.

The things we talk about!

I think I just read it somewhere to do with this case a while back :laugh:

[Marsh.]

What's LT doing around here? :omgno:

[Niamh.]

What's LT doing around here? :omgno:

I moved some posts from GC :fan:

[Marsh.]

I moved some posts from GC :fan:

I thought his powers had grown. :worry:

[Vicky.]

So happy for Amaral tbh. What a horrible pair to put him through this for simply putting forward a theory backed up by police work.

And still..poor madeleine. Her parents have always been more interested in making money off her than 'finding' her. Heck Jerry was planning the one year anniversary party weeks after she was 'kidnapped'..just horrific. NO parent of a genuine missing child would be planning that far in the future.

And yes, there is far more evidence of the parents involvement than there ever was of an intruder. I just wish the police had investigated the parents/friends from the offset instead of believing the abductor line.

They really did strike it lucky when hiding the poor child. It will all come out eventually, I hope. And the poor baby can be laid to rest properly and justice can be done. Though no punishment would be enough for keeping up this farce at the expense of their daughter..and for what? Fame and money. Just awful.

[jaxie]

And what about justice for the child? Look if it makes you uncomfortable then you don't need to talk about it but if people don't talk about it, two criminals could walk free

I didn't say people can't talk about it. It's just that if that theory is wrong it's a lot to heap on people who lost enough already.

I guess I just find it really hard to imagine a parent going to the lengths they must have to hide the death of their child.

[MrTheMan]

Maddie is dead...

Just get over it.

[Marsh.]

Maddie is dead...

Just get over it.

I'm so glad you contributed to the thread. Great conversationalist this one.

[Kazanne]

I'm so glad you contributed to the thread. Great conversationalist this one.

:laugh::laugh: Shouldn't laugh but that was funny.

[MrTheMan]

I'm so glad you contributed to the thread. Great conversationalist this one.

She IS dead.

Do you seriously expect her to just disappear for 10 goddamn years and just pop up out of the blue when shes 6ft2in with long ginger hair and acne spots???

NO!! She's as dead as dirt, her timewasting parents need to just accept that.

[Marsh.]

She IS dead.

Do you seriously expect her to just disappear for 10 goddamn years and just pop up out of the blue when shes 6ft2in with long ginger hair and acne spots???

NO!! She's as dead as dirt, her timewasting parents need to just accept that.

Again, thanks for the input. You really should contact the authorities Sherlock.

[Saph]

im so bored of hearing about her

just bring in a psychic to find her body and **** off

[reece(:]

im so bored of hearing about her

just bring in a psychic to find her body and **** off

It worked with Joelle :clap1:

[Marsh.]

im so bored of hearing about her

just bring in a psychic to find her body and **** off

Derek Acorah to ask Mary and Dick for assistance?

[MrTheMan]

im so bored of hearing about her

just bring in a psychic to find her body and **** off

Her body is probably in some Portuguese graveyard of is turned into ashes by now. In other words, shes deceased.

[chuff me dizzy]

Yeah, I get that and as a parent I really do but with this one there just seems to be more pointing to them being involved than not, they've lied about that night and changed their stories numerous times plus those cadavar/blood dogs found cadavar scent on Kates clothes and in the wardrobe of their apartment. Also, i believe they also found blood on the floor behind the couch. And in cases like this it usually ends up being a family member who knows something or was involved

Blood splatter ... this was found behind the sofa that Gerry admitted to moving from its original place

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_w-8JKaTohe4/SJjRkkQRlII/AAAAAAAAKhQ/Q8WAzUszZ5g/s400/blood_spatter_patern.jpg

[chuff me dizzy]

I think I just read it somewhere to do with this case a while back :laugh:

http://dogsdontlie.com/main/2008/12/cadaver-dogs-how-reliable-are-they-at-detecting-death/

[the truth]

how many millions of police money and time have been wasted that could have been spent on other lost children? why should they get a 5 year search and millions of public money wasted, when all other kids get barely a few weeks? in some cases just days

[chuff me dizzy]

how many millions of police money and time have been wasted that could have been spent on other lost children? why should they get a 5 year search and millions of public money wasted, when all other kids get barely a few weeks? in some cases just days

God knows, but what other child gets INSTANT cover up by the government and parents given the then PM Gordon Browns personal phone number ,hopefully all will be unravelled when Mcs charged

[Vicky.]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/763253/Detective-writing-new-Maddie-McCann-book

More attempted suing to come?

Having read the first book...I anticipate this one if it happens. All seemed fairly well laid out and was all based on facts from the investigation too. I doubt this one will find a UK publisher though if it criticizes our police force (though tbh, they deserve to be criticized in this case)

[Vicky.]

I may have misread this, he is seeking a publisher for his FIRST book. I hope he gets one as not many people in the UK have read it given you can only read the translated version online.

[Suze]

I may have misread this, he is seeking a publisher for his FIRST book. I hope he gets one as not many people in the UK have read it given you can only read the translated version online.

I wouldn't mind reading it, so hope it gets published also.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What's LT doing around here? :omgno:

:oh:

[Niamh.]

I wouldn't mind reading it, so hope it gets published also.

I'm reading it online

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.ie/2010/01/maddie-truth-of-lie.html?m=1

[Suze]

I have bookmarked that now Niamh. Looks like it might take a while to read it all.

[Niamh.]

Backing up your point TS :

The figures quoted in the report he hands over give us the shivers. The crimes, including those of a sexual nature, are committed by the parents in 84% of cases; 96% are perpetrated by friends and relatives. In only 4% of them is the murderer or abductor a total stranger to the victim

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.ie/search/label/Amaral%20The%20Truth%20of%20the%20Lie%20Chapter%20 16

[Ronald.]

They're bl**dy evil those parents!! R.

[Niamh.]

The Judge-Counsellors continue: "It is true that the criminal investigation was eventually archived, in virtue of none of the evidence that led to the constitution of the claimants as arguidos was confirmed. Nonetheless, even in the archiving dispatch serious reservations are made about the verisimilitude (reality of) of the allegation that Madeleine had been abducted."

As to the presumption of innocence invoked by the parents, they (Judges) consider that one should not say "that the claimants were acquitted through the order of archiving the criminal proceedings (investigation). The archiving was determined because it was not possible to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes. It does not seem reasonable to consider that said archiving dispatch, based on insufficient evidence, should be equated as substantiation (proof) of exoneration".

https://joana-morais.blogspot.ie/2017/02/judges-demolish-mccanns-innocence.html?m=1

[Vicky.]

Yes. They were never cleared, despite what our press would have you believe. Quite glad this has all come back out now, though I don't expect to see anything change in our papers. Mind..it is a refreshing change to see amaral being referred to as 'senior detective' 'top cop' and such rather than the usual 'bungling officer' and such that they wrote previously.

[Niamh.]

Yes. They were never cleared, despite what our press would have you believe. Quite glad this has all come back out now, though I don't expect to see anything change in our papers. Mind..it is a refreshing change to see amaral being referred to as 'senior detective' 'top cop' and such rather than the usual 'bungling officer' and such that they wrote previously.

I just finished reading his book, really good. It's astonishing how they were not arrested, it does definitely seem like they would have been had there not been so much protection/interference from Britain, seems like that's where the PJ were headed

[user104658]

IMO there were mistakes made in the beginning that resulted in there not being enough evidence to charge / convict them but the Portuguese police know fine well what actually happened. I doubt they even consider the case "open", it'll be filed away under "Solved - no conviction" as many MANY crimes unfortunately are.

What baffles me is that the world (Britain, mainly) seems adamant on going along with a completely hypothetical / fictional narrative of "an abduction" when there is literally ZERO evidence of it happening. None! At all!

[Niamh.]

IMO there were mistakes made in the beginning that resulted in there not being enough evidence to charge / convict them but the Portuguese police know fine well what actually happened. I doubt they even consider the case "open", it'll be filed away under "Solved - no conviction" as many MANY crimes unfortunately are.

What baffles me is that the world (Britain, mainly) seems adamant on going along with a completely hypothetical / fictional narrative of "an abduction" when there is literally ZERO evidence of it happening. None! At all!

Yup and there is evidence of her having died in the apartment and evidence of a dead body having been in their hire car (the Dogs) not to mention stories being changed and lies and lack of co operation by the Tapas 9

[Vicky.]

I just finished reading his book, really good. It's astonishing how they were not arrested, it does definitely seem like they would have been had there not been so much protection/interference from Britain, seems like that's where the PJ were headed
Apparently, the DNA evidence...if it had happened in Britain arrests would have been made but more 'markers' are needed for a prosecution in Portugal. I would love to know why the turnaround from our officers tbh, given it was them who sent in the dogs to start with

[Vicky.]

IMO there were mistakes made in the beginning that resulted in there not being enough evidence to charge / convict them but the Portuguese police know fine well what actually happened. I doubt they even consider the case "open", it'll be filed away under "Solved - no conviction" as many MANY crimes unfortunately are.

What baffles me is that the world (Britain, mainly) seems adamant on going along with a completely hypothetical / fictional narrative of "an abduction" when there is literally ZERO evidence of it happening. None! At all!

Yes, and funnily enough, its those who don't believe the abduction storyline that are written off as conspiracy theorists :D

[Niamh.]

Yes, and funnily enough, its those who don't believe the abduction storyline that are written off as conspiracy theorists :D

I know right :laugh: I suppose, it's horrific to believe that parents could be involved in something like this but statistics prove that it's actually a far far more likely scenario than a stranger snatching her

[user104658]

I know right :laugh: I suppose, it's horrific to believe that parents could be involved in something like this but statistics prove that it's actually a far far more likely scenario than a stranger snatching her

I fully believe it was an accident and I'd have felt horrific for them if they'd called (the portuguese equivalent of) 999 when they found her dead and admitted that there had been an accident that may have been partly their fault / through neglect. I don't believe for a second that they deliberately killed her or that they even thought they WERE endangering her. It would be heart-breaking. I'd have full sympathy for them... people make mistakes... sometimes with tragic consequences.

It's the calculated cover-up that I just can't comprehend... and everything else that has gone along with it.

[Vicky.]

I fully believe it was an accident and I'd have felt horrific for them if they'd called (the portuguese equivalent of) 999 when they found her dead and admitted that there had been an accident that may have been partly their fault / through neglect. I don't believe for a second that they deliberately killed her or that they even thought they WERE endangering her. It would be heart-breaking. I'd have full sympathy for them... people make mistakes... sometimes with tragic consequences.

It's the calculated cover-up that I just can't comprehend... and everything else that has gone along with it.

Come on TS...these people deliberately left babies on their own so they could go out with friends. They were doctors (I speak of the group, not just the McCanns) who know more than anyone the risks of taking your eye off small children for a second let alone purposely leaving them alone. Risk of fire, choking, falls...the list goes on.

I don't think they murdered her at all. But to claim that they did not think they were endangering her?!

[user104658]

Come on TS...these people deliberately left babies on their own so they could go out with friends. They were doctors (I speak of the group, not just the McCanns) who know more than anyone the risks of taking your eye off small children for a second let alone purposely leaving them alone. Risk of fire, choking, falls...the list goes on.

I don't think they murdered her at all. But to claim that they did not think they were endangering her?!

There is a variation in risk though and all anyone is ever doing is assessing acceptable risk. For example, I have an autistic non-verbal 4 year old, it would be safest for me to literally watch her like a hawk 24/7. I don't, though, she plays upstairs in her room on her own / with her sister etc. for several hours every day. Not only would it be totally impossible to have someone watch her 24/7... it would be unfair on her too to stop her from having those "normal" aspects of childhood. I also have a 7 year old daughter and it would be safest for me to not allow her to play outdoors in the summer with her peers... but it would be unfair and damaging to her in other ways and the real risks of anything happening to her (despite I will admit my own anxieties) is incredibly small.

I guess to use another universal aspect of "accepted risk" - it would be much safer to never ever put your child in a car... but this is a risk that the vast majority of people take, every day, for convenience / necessity. And because the risks are relatively small.

I *do* agree that leaving small children unattended in a holiday apartment should be considered an unacceptable risk for anyone to take, to the point that I consider it reckless / neglectful. However I am constantly amazed by the risks that other people are willing to take;

- Antihistamine doping,

- "monitor minding",

- Allowing 5 year olds to wander miles from home / to the local shops on their own,

- Riding around with helmetless kids on the back of quad-bikes

A few examples of things I've personally witnessed. But without exception, it's not that the parents realise the risks they are exposing their children to and simply don't care about the risks... it's that they have a skewed perception OF risk and haven't properly considered the potential consequences. In other words, it is a type of neglect, but it's through an expectation that "everything will be fine" that has gone too far.

I'm not making excuses really, I agree that the risk they were taking was far too big and (obviously) that turned out to be 100% accurate, but I think they were simply complacent and quite possibly arrogant. I think they probably knew that "most" would consider it unthinkable but, perhaps because they are doctors, I think they probably felt like "they knew better" and that there was no real risk.

[Vicky.]

I used to have a similar opinion and probably still should have but one thing stuck in my throat (fairly recently too) which seems to have knocked me back into a '****ing bastards' mindset where maybe I am not being fair

Kate admitting that the very same morning, Madeline had asked where she and Gerry had been the night before when her and one of the twins were crying for them.

Sorry, whatever your risk assesment and such...it takes a cruel and cold person to hear that from their own child and still chose to abandon them the same night again

As such I acknowledge that I am maybe unfair but I cannot get past that at all

[Kizzy]

I'd say the 'we are doctors we think we know better' has filtered down into the mainstream, it appears to be on a par with 'I remember when you could go out and leave your door open' and the onus be on the thief who chanced in.
But it isn't, you are not obliged to care for your home as you are your children, willful abandonment of them for however long by anyone should be seen as criminal neglect.

[user104658]

I used to have a similar opinion and probably still should have but one thing stuck in my throat (fairly recently too) which seems to have knocked me back into a '****ing bastards' mindset where maybe I am not being fair

Kate admitting that the very same morning, Madeline had asked where she and Gerry had been the night before when her and one of the twins were crying for them.

Sorry, whatever your risk assesment and such...it takes a cruel and cold person to hear that from their own child and still chose to abandon them the same night again

As such I acknowledge that I am maybe unfair but I cannot get past that at all

True, that's unimaginable to me, too. That they could happily have gotten themselves dressed up and gone out, knowing that the kids had been upset about it already. But then again I also see that **** happening all the time, with parents screaming in their kids faces / dragging them along the street by the arm when they are clearly already very upset.

[Niamh.]

I used to have a similar opinion and probably still should have but one thing stuck in my throat (fairly recently too) which seems to have knocked me back into a '****ing bastards' mindset where maybe I am not being fair

Kate admitting that the very same morning, Madeline had asked where she and Gerry had been the night before when her and one of the twins were crying for them.

Sorry, whatever your risk assesment and such...it takes a cruel and cold person to hear that from their own child and still chose to abandon them the same night again

As such I acknowledge that I am maybe unfair but I cannot get past that at all

Yeah totally. Also, why the need for these evening meals out as well, their kids were away in a Creche literally all day everyday but that wasn't enough "adult time" they still had to leave them at night too......and if the hotel staff were ok to mind them all day, why not hire them as sitters for the few hours in the evening too?

[user104658]

Yeah totally. Also, why the need for these evening meals out as well, their kids were away in a Creche literally all day everyday but that wasn't enough "adult time" they still had to leave them at night too......and if the hotel staff were ok to mind them all day, why not hire them as sitters for the few hours in the evening too?

The kids would have been asleep anyway... the sad fact is that some couples simply aren't able to just stay in and enjoy each others company and are only able to socially engage when surrounded by others (and alcohol).

[chuff me dizzy]

IMO there were mistakes made in the beginning that resulted in there not being enough evidence to charge / convict them but the Portuguese police know fine well what actually happened. I doubt they even consider the case "open", it'll be filed away under "Solved - no conviction" as many MANY crimes unfortunately are.

What baffles me is that the world (Britain, mainly) seems adamant on going along with a completely hypothetical / fictional narrative of "an abduction" when there is literally ZERO evidence of it happening. None! At all!

If you look closely the word abduction is hardly used now

[chuff me dizzy]

I used to have a similar opinion and probably still should have but one thing stuck in my throat (fairly recently too) which seems to have knocked me back into a '****ing bastards' mindset where maybe I am not being fair

Kate admitting that the very same morning, Madeline had asked where she and Gerry had been the night before when her and one of the twins were crying for them.

Sorry, whatever your risk assesment and such...it takes a cruel and cold person to hear that from their own child and still chose to abandon them the same night again

As such I acknowledge that I am maybe unfair but I cannot get past that at all

Maddie asking where you when i cried ,was a red herring to make people think she was alive that day ........ and they pushed the neglect lie to cover themselves, because without saying the kids had been left alone they could claim abduction

[Niamh.]

Maddie asking where you when i cried ,was a red herring to make people think she was alive that day ........ and they pushed the neglect lie to cover themselves, because without saying the kids had been left alone they could claim abduction

On what night did Mrs Fenn claim to have heard a child cry was that not the night before?

[chuff me dizzy]

On what night did Mrs Fenn claim to have heard a child cry was that not the night before?

2 nights before

[chuff me dizzy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EyUrIGim4A&index=94&list=FLVUTYNosuGrvgvn5nkiY6fA

[Niamh.]

2 nights before

thanks

[chuff me dizzy]

What did Colin Shalke find ?

http://fakedabduction.com/2010/06/madeleine-finders-sudden-death-and-burial-in-skipton/

[jet]

I'm reading it online

http://frommybigdesk.blogspot.ie/2010/01/maddie-truth-of-lie.html?m=1

I haven't read it so thanks for the link Niamh.
I don't know as much as most here seem to about the case, but what puzzles me is if the McCanns are guilty, why would they not just let the case fizzle out years ago and get on with their lives having got off scot free? Why would they continually bring attention to it over and over, year after year and rake it all up yet again trying to sue the books author?
It's not as if they were hard up for the money they could make out of it; and they seem too astute and intelligent not to realise they would be accused of doing it just for attention. I just don't get what their aim is in keeping the case alive and in the news for all these years if they are guilty with the much increased chance of being caught out which those actions would bring...

[Niamh.]

I haven't read it so thanks for the link Niamh.
I don't know as much as most here seem to about the case, but what puzzles me is if the McCanns are guilty, why would they not just let the case fizzle out years ago and get on with their lives having got off scot free? Why would they continually bring attention to it over and over, year after year and rake it all up yet again trying to sue the books author?
It's not as if they were hard up for the money they could make out of it; and they seem too astute and intelligent not to realise they would be accused of doing it just for attention. I just don't get what their aim is in keeping the case alive and in the news for all these years if they are guilty with the much increased chance of being caught out which those actions would bring...
You know before i hadn't read up much about it that was exactly the question I wondered too all the time, it seems to be because they care about their reputations and also because the fund has been a money spinner.

Try and read the book though if you get time, its not too long a read

[jet]

You know before i hadn't read up much about it that was exactly the question I wondered too all the time, it seems to be because they care about their reputations and also because the fund has been a money spinner.

Try and read the book though if you get time, its not too long a read

I've started it already...:hee:

[Glenn.]

They need locking up

[Niamh.]

I've started it already...:hee:
It's very interesting, I think trying to compare them with how you would expect parents of a missing child to act though doesnt work, even watching them being interviewed they never really show alot of concern for Maddie or what could be happening to her, infact they seem to distance themselves from her by referrring to her as "the child" etc

[jet]

It's very interesting, I think trying to compare them with how you would expect parents of a missing child to act though doesnt work, even watching them being interviewed they never really show alot of concern for Maddie or what could be happening to her, infact they seem to distance themselves from her by referring to her as "the child" etc

That's an excellent point. I kept thinking to myself 'if they did it, they are going to get caught out at some point because they can't leave it alone, and they must know this', so therefore it seems unlikely that they did it.
But that's the way most people wanting to avoid detection would act (by letting the case fade), but if they don't behave like most people then applying logic to their actions doesn't work so well.

[Niamh.]

That's an excellent point. I kept thinking to myself 'if they did it, they are going to get caught out at some point because they can't leave it alone, and they must know this', so therefore it seems unlikely that they did it.
But that's the way most people wanting to avoid detection would act (by letting the case fade), but if they don't behave like most people then applying logic to their actions doesn't work so well.
Yeah exactly and lets be honest most people wouldnt have left their very young kids alone while they went out eating and drinking and then act like they did nothing wrong when one of those kids disappears so trying to compare them to most people/parents already is not going to work

[Deirdre]

I've read some stuff about this online and, no offence to anyone here, but I find the idea that the parents did anything wrong a bit like a conspiracy theory? Just because I read that Gerry apparently has a criminal record for child abuse, he made lude gestures with one of the other doctors on holiday about Maddie and one of the women doctors reported this to police and the other male doctors used to bathe Maddie and the twins.
Just some other stuff I read online that just seems very far fetched and made up.

[Brillopad]

I've read some stuff about this online and, no offence to anyone here, but I find the idea that the parents did anything wrong a bit like a conspiracy theory? Just because I read that Gerry apparently has a criminal record for child abuse, he made lude gestures with one of the other doctors on holiday about Maddie and one of the women doctors reported this to police and the other male doctors used to bathe Maddie and the twins.
Just some other stuff I read online that just seems very far fetched and made up.

Most likely is - people just love to hate the McCanns it seems. Until I see there is 100% proof they were involved I won't believe it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yep it's all Internet bollocks and hate at them being successful and doctors

[Marsh.]

Yes, all to do with them being successful doctors and nothing at all to do with them being sh*tty parents.

[Niamh.]

I've read some stuff about this online and, no offence to anyone here, but I find the idea that the parents did anything wrong a bit like a conspiracy theory? Just because I read that Gerry apparently has a criminal record for child abuse, he made lude gestures with one of the other doctors on holiday about Maddie and one of the women doctors reported this to police and the other male doctors used to bathe Maddie and the twins.
Just some other stuff I read online that just seems very far fetched and made up.
I dont think anyone said Gerry had a record, that story though came from a statement made from two friends of theirs (probably ex friends now) who had been on a previous holiday with them, that's 100% true (that they made that statement to the Police)

[ebandit]

They need locking up

maybe? however.....................i know i must distrust most i see on

U tube etc................

i don't trust the parents...............but their grief could really be real

.........and they are desperate to find the truth/maddie even more than others

Mark L

[Crimson Dynamo]

Fresh anguish for Madeleine McCann's parents as Portugal's supreme court insists they haven't been proved innocent over their daughter's death

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/02/09/01/3CFB8A9500000578-0-image-m-56_1486602338554.jpg

The statement came in the court's 76-page ruling on the McCann's fight against another court's decision to reverse their 2015 libel win against the former detective.

The couple were left facing a huge legal bill and the prospect of being sued by Mr Amaral, who led the initial hunt for Madeleine when she vanished, after being told last week the Supreme Court had gone against them in a ruling which was not made fully public until yesterday.

Judges made it clear in their decision their job was not to decide whether the McCanns bore any criminal responsibility over their daughter's disappearance and it would be wrong for anyone to draw any inferences about the couple's guilt or innocence from their ruling.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4206214/Court-says-Madeleine-McCann-s-parents-HAVEN-T-cleared.html

[user104658]

'In truth, that ruling was not made in virtue of Portugal's Public Prosecution Service having acquired the conviction that the appellants hadn't committed a crime.
'The archiving of the case was determined by the fact that public prosecutors hadn't managed to obtain sufficient evidence of the practice of crimes by the appellants.
'There is therefore a significant, and not merely a semantic difference, between the legally admissible foundations of the archive ruling.
'It doesn't therefore seem acceptable that the ruling, based on the insufficiency of evidence, should be equated to proof of innocence.'

In other words, "we're pretty sure they covered up her death but we don't have enough hard evidence for an arrest or to secure a conviction".

[Niamh.]

In other words, "we're pretty sure they covered up her death but we don't have enough hard evidence for an arrest or to secure a conviction".

Yeah basically, which is why I think it's odd that, even in this thread, people act like them having something to do with her disappearance/death is the conspiracy theory and not that she was abducted when the PJ basically concluded that there was no evidence of an abduction and some evidence that she died in the apartment but not enough to convict them

[user104658]

Yeah basically, which is why I think it's odd that, even in this thread, people act like them having something to do with her disappearance/death is the conspiracy theory and not that she was abducted when the PJ basically concluded that there was no evidence of an abduction and some evidence that she died in the apartment but not enough to convict them

I'm 99% sure this is because it's a "foreign" police force and people think they therefore don't know what they're doing / are corrupt / aren't "real police like ours". If the British police were to turn around and say that they no longer believe the abduction theory, you'd find a lot of people would suddenly start to believe that it didn't happen that way.

[Niamh.]

I'm 99% sure this is because it's a "foreign" police force and people think they therefore don't know what they're doing / are corrupt / aren't "real police like ours". If the British police were to turn around and say that they no longer believe the abduction theory, you'd find a lot of people would suddenly start to believe that it didn't happen that way.

And if people actually looked into it and I don't mean reading news paper articles or normal peoples opinions, I mean stuff that was done in the actual investigation, the evidence they found to say she'd died in the apartment was found by the dogs who were brought in from England with their handler Martin Grime, UK Forensic Canine P SM Expert. According to Goncalo Amaral after that evidence was found he was told by one of the forensic team that in the UK it would have enough to arrest them

[chuff me dizzy]

https://www.her.ie/news/court-rules-kate-gerry-mccann-not-proved-innocent-maddies-disappearance/332373?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=onsite_share

Slowly but surely the floodgates are opening ,for 10yrs editors have sat on their hands dying to print what they know,but haven't dared ,but the court ruling is giving them the chance now

[chuff me dizzy]

In other words, "we're pretty sure they covered up her death but we don't have enough hard evidence for an arrest or to secure a conviction".

If Kate had answered the 48 police questions she refused ,they would have been locked up years ago ...... Ive always said she should have been made to answer them and taken lie test before 1p of taxpayers money was handed over to them

[Niamh.]

https://www.her.ie/news/court-rules-kate-gerry-mccann-not-proved-innocent-maddies-disappearance/332373?utm_source=twitter&utm_campaign=onsite_share

Slowly but surely the floodgates are opening ,for 10yrs editors have sat on their hands dying to print what they know,but haven't dared ,but the court ruling is giving them the chance now

It's like this is new information :o

[Crimson Dynamo]

lie tests do not work and have never worked

same as mediums

[Crimson Dynamo]

Operation Grange spent a lot longer on this case than any punter. The operation, conducted by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command, was led by Detective Chief Inspector Andrew Redwood and he is supported by a further twenty-eight detectives and seven other staff. And they did find no evidence to charge or convict Kate and Gerry.

[Niamh.]

Operation Grange spent a lot longer on this case than any punter. The operation, conducted by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command, was led by Detective Chief Inspector Andrew Redwood and he is supported by a further twenty-eight detectives and seven other staff. And they did find no evidence to charge or convict Kate and Gerry.

One would wonder whether they ever actually looked for evidence on Kate and Gerry or was the abduction theory the only avenue they went down ...........

What actual evidence did they find to rule out Kate and Gerry but be sure it was an abduction because as we've already established there was evidence to suggest she died in the apartment but nothing to suggest an abduction

[user104658]

lie tests do not work and have never worked

same as mediums

Weeeeell it's not quite that simple, they do work to an extent so it's not exactly like "magic" or "psychics"... but they're nowhere near reliable enough to be used as hard evidence (which is why, except on Jezza, they aren't).

In fact occasionally on Jeremy Kyle, the poor saps taking the test look so GENUINELY confused by the results saying that they lied that I can only assume they did tell the truth to the best of their knowledge :joker:. Either that or there are an awful lot of highly skilled actors hiding in our council estates :think:.

[user104658]

Operation Grange spent a lot longer on this case than any punter. The operation, conducted by the Homicide & Serious Crime Command, was led by Detective Chief Inspector Andrew Redwood and he is supported by a further twenty-eight detectives and seven other staff. And they did find no evidence to charge or convict Kate and Gerry.

This statement is utterly meaningless LT, Kate and Gerry are (obviously) very clever and highly educated people. The inability of the police to find sufficient evidence to arrest or charge them means one thing and one thing only. That they didn't find evidence. It indicated nothing at all above or beyond that fact about what did actually happen. They also found no evidence of an abduction other than a witness statement that has since been essentially shown to be false or questionable.

It's just as feasible to suggest that they simply knew how to remove the evidence and did so well enough to avoid arrest. In fact, with the lack of evidence for either theory, it seems highly likely either way that WHOEVER is guilty managed to remove or hide evidence. Was it the stealth ninja stranger who would have had mere minutes to do so, silently? Or was it the people who had as much time as they needed?

I think you know logically at least that there are massive gaping holes in all of this and unanswered questions by the bucketload... but honestly... if the McCanns were arrested, charged, and found guilty in court tomorrow I still don't think you would believe it. For whatever reason, you seem to have a strong bias towards believing in their innocence, and I think you would brand any conviction "an injustice".

[chuff me dizzy]

Panorama were in PDL last week !!!!!!! :dance::dance:

[chuff me dizzy]

http://portugalresident.com/uk-media-rounds-on-supreme-court-‘shock’-that-mccanns-“have-not-been-proved-innocent”

[user104658]

http://portugalresident.com/uk-media-rounds-on-supreme-court-‘shock’-that-mccanns-“have-not-been-proved-innocent”

I wonder how much of this has more to do with their failure to successfully block / sue over the book? Has the strange inclination of the tabloids to favour the McCanns (when let's face it, they are normally inclined to go with a negative slant - it sells better) has been largely down to a simple fear of being the target of legal action... but now they all feel more confident in reporting something less "Pro-McCann"?

[chuff me dizzy]

I wonder how much of this has more to do with their failure to successfully block / sue over the book? Has the strange inclination of the tabloids to favour the McCanns (when let's face it, they are normally inclined to go with a negative slant - it sells better) has been largely down to a simple fear of being the target of legal action... but now they all feel more confident in reporting something less "Pro-McCann"?

I will find it, McCanns paid the press to keep them in the headlines

[Niamh.]

I wonder how much of this has more to do with their failure to successfully block / sue over the book? Has the strange inclination of the tabloids to favour the McCanns (when let's face it, they are normally inclined to go with a negative slant - it sells better) has been largely down to a simple fear of being the target of legal action... but now they all feel more confident in reporting something less "Pro-McCann"?

The thing is though that precedent has been set in a Portuguese court not a British one and the McCanns have already threatened to sue if any translated versions are sold in the UK so maybe they're still treading carefully as you can see from this excerpt from the link Chuff posted :

Curiously, the Daily Mail’s “Portuguese court says Madeleine McCann’s parents HAVEN’T been cleared” (with large capital letters for the word haven’t) was later changed to: “Fresh anguish for Madeleine McCann's parents as Portugal's supreme court insists they haven't been proved innocent over their daughter's death”.

[chuff me dizzy]

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/gerry-mccann-slammed-for-hypocrisy-after-speaking-out-about-press-intrusion-a3219046.html


Read this ^^

[Vicky.]

The shift in language over the past week or so from our press is pretty insane.

[chuff me dizzy]

The shift in language over the past week or so from our press is pretty insane.

The floodgates are slowly opening Vicky

[chuff me dizzy]

An excellent read, long but please take 10 minutes

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/game-changer.html?m=1

[user104658]

I totally didn't pick up on this yesterday, not sure if anyone else did... m'lovely wife pointed it out as soon as I showed her the article.

https://s24.postimg.org/rh9kj09at/mmcdeath.png


...Wups? Slip up there by mail online? Not their daughter's "disappearance" but quite explicitly states her death, as in, they are of the opinion that she is indeed definitely dead. Not usual at all for the UK press who have been pushing the "Abducted by paedophiles or maybe gypsies and possible sightings" angle for years...

[Cal.]

I never knew they pay a PR company to keep Madeline in the press. I guess it explains why it's been in the press daily for the past 10 years.

[Niamh.]

I totally didn't pick up on this yesterday, not sure if anyone else did... m'lovely wife pointed it out as soon as I showed her the article.

https://s24.postimg.org/rh9kj09at/mmcdeath.png


...Wups? Slip up there by mail online? Not their daughter's "disappearance" but quite explicitly states her death, as in, they are of the opinion that she is indeed definitely dead. Not usual at all for the UK press who have been pushing the "Abducted by paedophiles or maybe gypsies and possible sightings" angle for years...


:laugh:

I did notice that yesterday alright but but but I thought the fact that she'd died was the conspiracy theory :fan:

[user104658]

An excellent read, long but please take 10 minutes

http://textusa.blogspot.co.uk/2017/02/game-changer.html?m=1

An interesting read (if a little hard to follow). I also noticed this comment at the bottom:

"Do you think that if the truth is revealed......the McCanns could escape sentence??"

This is basically what I think is likely to happen unfortunately. I don't think there will ever be enough evidence to actually secure a conviction against them even if it does go to the courts. I don't think they will ever actually confess and therefore we will never know the specifics of what happened, either. And because of that, there will always be people who will believe their version of events, no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary or what the police / media believe.

[Niamh.]

An interesting read (if a little hard to follow). I also noticed this comment at the bottom:

"Do you think that if the truth is revealed......the McCanns could escape sentence??"

This is basically what I think is likely to happen unfortunately. I don't think there will ever be enough evidence to actually secure a conviction against them even if it does go to the courts. I don't think they will ever actually confess and therefore we will never know the specifics of what happened, either. And because of that, there will always be people who will believe their version of events, no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary or what the police / media believe.

Yeah i think so too unfortunately, unless they actually find her body (unlikely at this stage) or they get a confession then I can't see how they will ever convict them if the dogs evidence wasn't sufficient

[user104658]

Yeah i think so too unfortunately, unless they actually find her body (unlikely at this stage) or they get a confession then I can't see how they will ever convict them if the dogs evidence wasn't sufficient

There's an outside possibility of Kate revealing something eventually in my opinion. No matter which version of events you believe (even if it is that it was a kidnapping and all of their campaigning has been about finding her) it's fairly obvious that Gerry is the driving force behind the narrative.

[Niamh.]

There's an outside possibility of Kate revealing something eventually in my opinion. No matter which version of events you believe (even if it is that it was a kidnapping and all of their campaigning has been about finding her) it's fairly obvious that Gerry is the driving force behind the narrative.

Yeah but Kate has revealed stuff before, as in slipped up, stories changing etc etc doesn't seem to make any difference :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I never knew they pay a PR company to keep Madeline in the press. I guess it explains why it's been in the press daily for the past 10 years.

Sounds like the type of thing a murderer would do..

[Niamh.]

Sounds like the type of thing a murderer would do..

You think they murdered her LT? :o I don't think so

[Crimson Dynamo]

You think they murdered her LT? :o I don't think so

Of course not its ridiculous to think that. Like you I hope they find her soon. :love:

[Niamh.]

Of course not its ridiculous to think that. Like you I hope they find her soon. :love:

Breaking News Lt accuses McCanns of murdering their child :o

[Vicky.]

:laugh:

[user104658]

Of course not its ridiculous to think that. Like you I hope they find her soon. :love:

DM says they think she's dead.
LT logic dictates that DM cannot be wrong.
McCanns say they think she's alive.
LT logic dictates that Kate McCann cannot be wrong.

... If a black guy, a US state trooper and a 71 year old clock winder weigh in, I think we're going to lose him :worry:

[Crimson Dynamo]

:laugh2:

[chuff me dizzy]

:laugh:

I did notice that yesterday alright but but but I thought the fact that she'd died was the conspiracy theory :fan:

They changed the online headline yesterday afternoon, "DEATH" wasn't in the original one

[Kazanne]

The tide seems to be turning with the media
http://wizzed.com/the-chilling-things-you-dont-know-about-the-disappearance-of-madeline-mccann/?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=00a7c2f61ede158497ad131215c28d7888

[Niamh.]

The tide seems to be turning with the media
http://wizzed.com/the-chilling-things-you-dont-know-about-the-disappearance-of-madeline-mccann/?utm_source=outbrain&utm_medium=00a7c2f61ede158497ad131215c28d7888

:umm2:

When asked to comment on his reaction at learning that Madeleine had been abducted, Dr Gerald McCann said: “It was like being told you were overdrawn on your student loan.” A peculiar analogy to use to describe how you feel about your three-year-old daughter being abducted.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:umm2:

When asked to comment on his reaction at learning that Madeleine had been abducted, Dr Gerald McCann said: “It was like being told you were overdrawn on your student loan.” A peculiar analogy to use to describe how you feel about your three-year-old daughter being abducted.

I would be amazed if there is any truth in that at all

[chuff me dizzy]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4212368/KATIE-HOPKINS-McCanns-hate-Maddy-named-Shannon.html

Mcs wont be happy !! but just wish Katie would not say Maddie was taken ,spot on about Cuddlecat though

[chuff me dizzy]

Who takes rubber gloves on holiday ? McCanns did

http://steelmagnolia-steelmagnolia.blogspot.co.uk/2012/07/kate-mccann-interview-with-jon-corner.html

[ebandit]

...people whom expect to need to clean up............

Mark L

[Brillopad]

:umm2:

When asked to comment on his reaction at learning that Madeleine had been abducted, Dr Gerald McCann said: “It was like being told you were overdrawn on your student loan.” A peculiar analogy to use to describe how you feel about your three-year-old daughter being abducted.

Sounds like a good case of Chinese whispers to me.

[Brillopad]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4212368/KATIE-HOPKINS-McCanns-hate-Maddy-named-Shannon.html

Mcs wont be happy !! but just wish Katie would not say Maddie was taken ,spot on about Cuddlecat though

Kim

[ebandit]

ok quick strawpoll...........i expect this to rumble on AKA lord lucan story

who? thinks differently............mannie found...perpetrators brought to justice?

Mark L

[Vicky.]

I have read a lot about the missing tennis bag. I have seen the bag in the police photos so know it exists. I didn't know the police were searching for it also...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akv01Y0pfNY

The bag thing...another ridiculously weird thing about this whole case

This video also shows how 'close' the apartment was to the Tapas place...really was like sitting in your garden eh? :hehe:

[chuff me dizzy]

I have read a lot about the missing tennis bag. I have seen the bag in the police photos so know it exists. I didn't know the police were searching for it also...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Akv01Y0pfNY

The bag thing...another ridiculously weird thing about this whole case

This video also shows how 'close' the apartment was to the Tapas place...really was like sitting in your garden eh? :hehe:

David Payne dropped them in it with the tennis bag ....... http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DAVID-PAYNE-ROGATORY.htm

[Vicky.]

Yes...the bag was/wasn't big enough to 'hide a tennis racquet' in' or something similar. HIDE a tennis racquet? the bag is designed to carry the damn things :laugh:

[chuff me dizzy]

Yes...the bag was/wasn't big enough to 'hide a tennis racquet' in' or something similar. HIDE a tennis racquet? the bag is designed to carry the damn things :laugh:

He nearly said BODY

[Vicky.]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/588652/madeleine-mcccann-parents-legal-action-television-show-missing-daughter

Sue sue sue...have they not learnt? The only cases they have 'won' are those where people settled out of court, and now people know to take it to the end given Amarals victory.

Also not sure why its being made out that this documentary has only just appeared in English...I watched this liked 2 years ago :umm2:

[Niamh.]

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/588652/madeleine-mcccann-parents-legal-action-television-show-missing-daughter

Sue sue sue...have they not learnt? The only cases they have 'won' are those where people settled out of court, and now people know to take it to the end given Amarals victory.

Also not sure why its being made out that this documentary has only just appeared in English...I watched this liked 2 years ago :umm2:

They're shooting themselves in the foot here and drawing even more attention to it....leave them to it

[Vicky.]

They're shooting themselves in the foot here and drawing even more attention to it....leave them to it

Indeed...not many people had even heard of Amarals book before they started going mental in the press, and this is making more and more people read it, and in turn, read the police files which back up everything he says.

Surely they aren't that thick..to as not realise this? Tell people not to do something, they want to do it even more.

[Niamh.]

Indeed...not many people had even heard of Amarals book before they started going mental in the press, and this is making more and more people read it, and in turn, read the police files which back up everything he says.

Surely they aren't that thick..to as not realise this? Tell people not to do something, they want to do it even more.

They remind me of Lance Armstrong and how he behaved when people accused him of taking drugs, he's a complete narcissist and he tried to destroy anyone who dared accuse him....eventhough he was doing everything people said

[Vicky.]

I am sorry for the sun link but...does anyone else find it very strange tthat Scotland yard are arranging the interviews for the 10th anniversary? Seems really weird?
https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2876843/kate-gerry-mccann-cashing-in-anniversary-maddies-disappearance/?CMP=AFF-Sun_traffic_gen-Awin-19_10_2016-1403-0-0-0&awc=7715_1487255106_1d3b15905662f690013b0fbcac6798 6e

The couple are considering two pooled interviews in Britain, one for print through the country’s national agency Press Association and one for broadcasters.

Both are being organised through Scotland Yard, Mitchell explained. He said: “There will be no fee.”

[Marsh.]

:umm2:

When asked to comment on his reaction at learning that Madeleine had been abducted, Dr Gerald McCann said: “It was like being told you were overdrawn on your student loan.” A peculiar analogy to use to describe how you feel about your three-year-old daughter being abducted.

D:

[Marsh.]

He nearly said BODY

:joker::joker::joker:

[Vicky.]

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2890547/kate-gerry-mccann-ban-lawyer-not-cleared-maddie-disappearance/?CMP=spklr-_-Editorial-_-FBPAGE-_-TheSun-_-20170217-_-813167549

Another sun link unfortunately...other papers seem to have a media blackout on the McCanns and recent developments :suspect:

MADELINE McCann’s parents have begged their Portuguese lawyer to keep quiet after judges ruled they weren’t in the clear over their daughter’s disappearance.

Isabel Duarte is believed to have been readying herself to comment on the failed libel battle against ex-cop Goncalo Amaral, who claims the couple faked Maddie’s abduction.

But Kate and Gerry have now reportedly ordered her to not “say anything” or respond to any media requests after the judgement was handed down last week.

Ms Duarte said today: “We received instructions from the clients not to make any declaration or give public information about the file against Mr Amaral or the case itself.”

The couple lost their nine-year civil battle against Amaral, who claimed their daughter had been accidentally killed in May 2007 and they had covered it up.

[user104658]

other papers seem to have a media blackout on the McCanns and recent developments :suspect:

Fresh round of legal threats gone out from their lawyers, no doubt.

[chuff me dizzy]

Indeed...not many people had even heard of Amarals book before they started going mental in the press, and this is making more and more people read it, and in turn, read the police files which back up everything he says.

Surely they aren't that thick..to as not realise this? Tell people not to do something, they want to do it even more.

Amarals book is legal, Mcs cannot stop it being sold in UK or worldwide, the funds is nearly drained, they cannot keep suing people ,it over for them,they are in their death throws

[ebandit]

..where did such funds come from?............is this £s donated to help hunt for

maddie.................................i appreciate donors are spread but can't see anyone

being happy funds are wasted so......................

Mark L

[Suze]

All those years and all the money grabbing and not an iota of anything to show for it all with them, am sure I read somewhere some of the donations were used towards a couple of morgage payments although that could just have been hearsay.

[Niamh.]

All those years and all the money grabbing and not an iota of anything to show for it all with them, am sure I read somewhere some of the donations were used towards a couple of morgage payments although that could just have been hearsay.

according to this article that information came from their own spokesman
http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-britain-mcanns-idUKL3080452520071030

They've also used it to sue people, which imo is worse than using it to pay their mortgage

Kate and Gerry McCann face a huge bill that could wipe out search funds for the missing girl after losing their new court appeal to silence Gonçalo Amaral

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/2750157/furious-gerry-kate-mccann-court-battle-with-cop-was-never-about-winning-money-but-about-stopping-maddie-cover-up-smears/

[anne666]

Kate McCann was next to check on the children, at 10pm. She ran back to the restaurant moments later, saying Madeleine was missing. The McCanns and their friends made a quick search of the resort, but after finding no sign of Madeleine the police were called at 10.14pm.

Crucially, however, the apartment was not initially treated as a crime scene, meaning around 20 people went in and out before it was sealed off, contaminating potential evidence. Roadblocks were not put in place until 10am the next day, border guards were not informed for hours and Interpol did not put out a global missing persons alert for five days.

It meant that the most crucial time of any missing persons investigation – the first 24 hours – was largely squandered

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/03/16/madeleine-mccann-latest-are-police-any-closer-to-knowing-the-tru/

So much incorrect information.
You might find reading the PJ files http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ more helpful than the litigious McCanns allowed "versions", via the threatened British media. On the subject of the police files. Did they use public donations from their lucrative "Company", not a charity, for this?
McCanns paid £100,000 to TRANSLATE Files WHY haven't they released them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJHBN4-e2Og
The police weren't called until 10.40 by a Warner employee, not the McCanns or any of their friends. They arrived at the resort within 10 to 15 minutes. The McCanns and several people they allowed into the apartment and the bedroom before the police arrived at their apartment all contaminated the scene. The police sealed it off.
How DARE the McCanns Claim the Portuguese Police Did NOTHING!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzG-ZwP42do

What would you do if your 3 year old was missing as they claimed? Most parents would immediately search and carry on searching. Her not bothering was well known at the time. In this their first BBC interview she's asked one simple question, did she as a mother ever just think she might like to get out and search for her own missing child. Not, did she get out and search. Her answer, not physical searching but they were busy.
The McCanns Did Not Physically Search for Madeleine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YWCVSjIJk8
Why wouldn't parents search for their "missing" helpless child?

They instead chose to stay in the apartment with their friends and focus on far more important issues. Like McCanns deleting all but one call log and all texts from both phones covering their entire time in Portugal. Now why would anyone want or need to do that?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm

[the truth]

So much incorrect information.
You might find reading the PJ files http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ more helpful than the litigious McCanns allowed "versions", via the threatened British media. On the subject of the police files. Did they use public donations from their lucrative "Company", not a charity, for this?
McCanns paid £100,000 to TRANSLATE Files WHY haven't they released them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJHBN4-e2Og
The police weren't called until 10.40 by a Warner employee, not the McCanns or any of their friends. They arrived at the resort within 10 to 15 minutes. The McCanns and several people they allowed into the apartment and the bedroom before the police arrived at their apartment all contaminated the scene. The police sealed it off.
How DARE the McCanns Claim the Portuguese Police Did NOTHING!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzG-ZwP42do

What would you do if your 3 year old was missing as they claimed? Most parents would immediately search and carry on searching. Her not bothering was well known at the time. In this their first BBC interview she's asked one simple question, did she as a mother ever just think she might like to get out and search for her own missing child. Not, did she get out and search. Her answer, not physical searching but they were busy.
The McCanns Did Not Physically Search for Madeleine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YWCVSjIJk8
Why wouldn't parents search for their "missing" helpless child?

They instead chose to stay in the apartment with their friends and focus on far more important issues. Like McCanns deleting all but one call log and all texts from both phones covering their entire time in Portugal. Now why would anyone want or need to do that?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm
biggest cover up since jimmy saville

[ebandit]

..........it's certainly puzzling...............i too think 'cover up'...............but why?

..........mostly cover up by the parents...with their friends help

Mark L

[Niamh.]

..........it's certainly puzzling...............i too think 'cover up'...............but why?

..........mostly cover up by the parents...with their friends help

Mark L

Anyone can see from reading the statements of all the couples that they were lying, their stories have loads of inconsistencies and they all (including the McCanns) refused to do a reconstruction which is odd if you're trying to find your missing child

[chuff me dizzy]

..........it's certainly puzzling...............i too think 'cover up'...............but why?

..........mostly cover up by the parents...with their friends help

Mark L

Because of the others involved ,too many people will go down with them

[chuff me dizzy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4jsLkwa7cc

2 WEEKS after Maddies demise,her Grandma and Great uncle, never even mention her name when begging for cash for "fund" Nice to hear Kate,Gerry are cheered up by the fund filling up

[the truth]

they are scum

[ebandit]

....we are all scum.....some more scummier than others.............

was there much dirt on the mc canns prior to this incident....or would it be callous

to go a hunting for such knowing their 'loss'?

Mark L

[Vicky.]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/madeleine-mccann-missing-abduction-parents-legal-battle-goncalo-amaral-police-claims-portugal-a7588281.html

Madeleine McCann’s parents have launched a fresh legal battle to overturn a Portuguese court ruling that failed to clear them of involvement in their daughter’s disappearance.

Kate and Gerry McCann’s lawyer confirmed they would use money from the “Find Madeleine” fund in a bid to overturn the ruling, and challenge claims by former police chief Goncalo Amaral that they had faked their daughter's abduction.

Sure thats what people donated to the fund for...more legal battles. I do wonder quite how much of the fund has actually gone on searching. I doubt the figure is very substantial, if it exists at all...

[Niamh.]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/madeleine-mccann-missing-abduction-parents-legal-battle-goncalo-amaral-police-claims-portugal-a7588281.html



Sure thats what people donated to the fund for...more legal battles. I do wonder quite how much of the fund has actually gone on searching. I doubt the figure is very substantial, if it exists at all...

It's terrible really, people hand over their hard earned cash because a little girl is "missing" and it's heartbreaking and then that little girls parents take that money and use it to sue people, it's disgusting actually

[user104658]

It's terrible really, people hand over their hard earned cash because a little girl is "missing" and it's heartbreaking and then that little girls parents take that money and use it to sue people, it's disgusting actually

Not only that, they take money donated to find out what happened to her... and use it to further complicate that search for answers.

[Niamh.]

Not only that, they take money donated to find out what happened to her... and use it to further complicate that search for answers.

Indeed, I'd be raging if I'd donated anything to them

[Niamh.]

A Sky news report :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuujDTbdFOY&feature=youtu.be

[Kazanne]

A Sky news report :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuujDTbdFOY&feature=youtu.be

Is this a recent one Niamh ? it's very damming of them don't you think ?

[Niamh.]

Is this a recent one Niamh ? it's very damming of them don't you think ?

I think it was from when they were made suspects

[Kazanne]

I think it was from when they were made suspects

It still points their way,I am torn to think they would do anything to their own child but the evidence does seem very damming,I just don't understand why things seem to be so hush up on this case,so many things that don't add up such as the sports bag,the cadaver dogs,the fridge being replaced,the room being bleached and cleaned including the curtains( I go on holiday to get away from chores like that) the lying and refusals to do lie detector tests,the doors being unlocked etc I could go on,but something is very dodgy about it all,I just don't know what would drive them to keep it all going unless they are innocent,but it looks doubtful that they had no hand in it all.I was always of the thought that Madeliene woke up and wandered off to find them and maybe fell into an old mine shaft etc or building site or even the sea,it's so very complicated,you want to believe they are innocent but everything points to them having something to do with it, even the pics of them smiling not long after don't seem right.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So much incorrect information.
You might find reading the PJ files http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/ more helpful than the litigious McCanns allowed "versions", via the threatened British media. On the subject of the police files. Did they use public donations from their lucrative "Company", not a charity, for this?
McCanns paid £100,000 to TRANSLATE Files WHY haven't they released them
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJHBN4-e2Og
The police weren't called until 10.40 by a Warner employee, not the McCanns or any of their friends. They arrived at the resort within 10 to 15 minutes. The McCanns and several people they allowed into the apartment and the bedroom before the police arrived at their apartment all contaminated the scene. The police sealed it off.
How DARE the McCanns Claim the Portuguese Police Did NOTHING!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QzG-ZwP42do

What would you do if your 3 year old was missing as they claimed? Most parents would immediately search and carry on searching. Her not bothering was well known at the time. In this their first BBC interview she's asked one simple question, did she as a mother ever just think she might like to get out and search for her own missing child. Not, did she get out and search. Her answer, not physical searching but they were busy.
The McCanns Did Not Physically Search for Madeleine
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YWCVSjIJk8
Why wouldn't parents search for their "missing" helpless child?

They instead chose to stay in the apartment with their friends and focus on far more important issues. Like McCanns deleting all but one call log and all texts from both phones covering their entire time in Portugal. Now why would anyone want or need to do that?
http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm

you can look at spurious conspiracy websites and youtube bolloxio but I think I will stick with trained braodsheet journalists and Scotland Yard

[Niamh.]

It still points their way,I am torn to think they would do anything to their own child but the evidence does seem very damming,I just don't understand why things seem to be so hush up on this case,so many things that don't add up such as the sports bag,the cadaver dogs,the fridge being replaced,the room being bleached and cleaned including the curtains( I go on holiday to get away from chores like that) the lying and refusals to do lie detector tests,the doors being unlocked etc I could go on,but something is very dodgy about it all,I just don't know what would drive them to keep it all going unless they are innocent,but it looks doubtful that they had no hand in it all.I was always of the thought that Madeliene woke up and wandered off to find them and maybe fell into an old mine shaft etc or building site or even the sea,it's so very complicated,you want to believe they are innocent but everything points to them having something to do with it, even the pics of them smiling not long after don't seem right.

I don't think they harmed her, i think maybe the kids were dosed up so the would sleep while the parents went out, Maddie woke and was groggy maybe climbed on the back of the couch to look out the window for them and fell and hit her head/broke her neck and died. The Dogs evidence would point to this as they found the cadaver scent and blood behind the couch and on the wall behind the couch

[anne666]

If this couple know Maddie died, setting up a fund is fraud. Add that to the list of what they might well be desperate avoid. I basically agree with the PJ. When they were left alone, Madeleine had a fatal accident inside or in the garden of the apartment, where the Cadaver dog gave a particularly swift and strong alert. I don't necessarily agree that it happened that night.
They had good reason not to bother searching and for having other far more important priorities. The lot of them must have been horrified when the PJ files were released. How long does the tax paying public have to carry on being treated like this and more importantly, why?
I don't know if anyone's read this,
Ex-Notts Detective Superintendent Peter MacLeod's very enlightening free e-book which covers all of the basic important elements in detail.
http://freepdfhosting.com/dc46088f9b.pdf

As is this, which he refers to in the book.
The McCann's: Embedded Confessions - Statement Analyst Peter Hyatt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS6ucYudNAo

[Niamh.]

If this couple know Maddie died, setting up a fund is fraud. Add that to the list of what they might well be desperate avoid. I basically agree with the PJ, she had a fatal accident inside or in the garden of the apartment where the Cadaver dog gave a particularly swift and strong alert. I don't necessarily agree that it happened that night.
They had good reason not to bother searching and having other far more important priorities. The lot of them must have been horrified when the PJ files were released. How long does the tax paying public have to carry on being treated like this and more importantly, why?
I don't know if anyone's read this,
Ex-Notts Detective Superintendent Peter MacLeod's very enlightening free e-book which covers all of the basic important elements in detail.
http://freepdfhosting.com/dc46088f9b.pdf

As is this, which he refers to in the book.
The McCann's: Embedded Confessions - Statement Analyst Peter Hyatt.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS6ucYudNAo

Yeah neither do I, they would need more time to hide her body and work out a plan of action

[Kazanne]

I don't think they harmed her, i think maybe the kids were dosed up so the would sleep while the parents went out, Maddie woke and was groggy maybe climbed on the back of the couch to look out the window for them and fell and hit her head/broke her neck and died. The Dogs evidence would point to this as they found the cadaver scent and blood behind the couch and on the wall behind the couch

Yes,I forgot about the couch and the dosing of the children,if that was the case ,it's still terrible for them to cover that up ,infact probably worse than one of them losing their temper for a second and accidently killing her.I wonder if we will ever find out ?

[Niamh.]

Yes,I forgot about the couch and the dosing of the children,if that was the case ,it's still terrible for them to cover that up ,infact probably worse than one of them losing their temper for a second and accidently killing her.I wonder if we will ever find out ?

I think it's doubtful at this stage, i hope I'm wrong though

[Vicky.]

you can look at spurious conspiracy websites and youtube bolloxio but I think I will stick with trained braodsheet journalists and Scotland Yard

Hows about...the actual police files? All papers talk crap. Scotland yard aren't talking. Yet the interviews and such are there for all to see the inconsistencies and lies :)

[Niamh.]

Hows about...the actual police files? All papers talk crap. Scotland yard aren't talking. Yet the interviews and such are there for all to see the inconsistencies and lies :)

They're Portuguese Police files though don't you know......foreign ones :shocked:

[Vicky.]

Yeah neither do I, they would need more time to hide her body and work out a plan of action

The problem with this is that it seems there are witnesses that Madeleine was alive up til about 5pm

So it still only leaves 5 hours.

The only problem I have with Amarals theory, is the fridge. It seems so...out there to stash the body there then transport it in the hire car. BUT there is no denying something happened in that car. And with the DNA markers found, if it had been in the UK that would have been enough to convict. Luckily for the McCanns, Portugal is a bit stricter with DNA evidence..

[Vicky.]

They're Portuguese Police files though don't you know......foreign ones :shocked:

Oh yes, can't be trusting those dodgy foreigners :hehe:

The rotatory interviews were conducted by British police though, so maybe we can trust those. Plenty of evidence in them...

The dogs were brought in by British Police also...hmm

[Niamh.]

The problem with this is that it seems there are witnesses that Madeleine was alive up til about 5pm

So it still only leaves 5 hours.

The only problem I have with Amarals theory, is the fridge. It seems so...out there to stash the body there then transport it in the hire car. BUT there is no denying something happened in that car. And with the DNA markers found, if it had been in the UK that would have been enough to convict. Luckily for the McCanns, Portugal is a bit stricter with DNA evidence..

Also, the fridge thing is weird, who replaces a fridge in a holiday apartment? No one and certainly not someone who won't even fork out for a baby sitter, that's for sure

[anne666]

Yeah neither do I, they would need more time to hide her body and work out a plan of action

Yes I think they would. Cadaverine isn't released from a body for at least 90 minutes after death, depending on climate. That's supposedly the entire length of time they were out. Following the Cadaver dog alerts, a body, deceased for at least 90 minutes, had been moved from the garden, from under the window in the lounge and into the parents bedroom where it alerted inside the wardrobe. Unless she died before they went out, it seems impossible. The PJ set it at any time after 5.35, but even that's hazy because of their conflicting statements and vague creche records. Could even they be callous enough to go out and act normally after something so horrific? They were definitely both seen by independent witnesses in the Tapas Bar from around 8.30.

[smudgie]

I just don't understand how if all this evidence was true, why weren't they charged, home or abroad?

[user104658]

I just don't understand how if all this evidence was true, why weren't they charged, home or abroad?

Under normal circumstances I am convinced that they would eventually have been charged in Portugal (e.g. if they were a Portuguese couple). It's the fact that they were a British couple on holiday abroad that muddied the waters. All sorts of people / agencies got involved and the whole thing became a tangled web very quickly.

[the truth]

I just don't understand how if all this evidence was true, why weren't they charged, home or abroad?

media, freemasons, money, hype, beckham, lies, destroyed evidence, useless journalists , the pope etc what a fiasco

[anne666]

you can look at spurious conspiracy websites and youtube bolloxio but I think I will stick with trained braodsheet journalists and Scotland Yard

Gagged media misinformation, approved by the seriously litigious McCanns and you claim they're accurate? I don't have any reason to mistrust a British ex Detective Superintendent. Or do UK police have to be falsely labelled hopeless and out to get the poor innocent souls too?
Their, instantly insisted upon, peadophile abduction story is only one part of this investigation and in 10 years it remains totally unproven. Yet anyone daring to look at McCann banned alternatives are conspiracy theorists? LOL! You've really swallowed the McCann party line!
Did they threaten to sue the UK and Portguese police who worked together for daring to look at the other alternatives? In an overwhelming majority of cases like this family are involved. But if they say they're innocent that's it? No further inquiries necessary? Why should the McCanns have that exclusive legal status? Sorry it doesn't wash now and it never has.
Since 2007 all there is of any validity are many pointers still firmly in place towards the McCanns and co. and they all know it. Even their, hired from public donations, inept master of spin Mitchell eventually admitted there wasn't any evidence of a break in.
Regardless of their asinine efforts to fake one and immediately spread lies to the media and their friends and family in the uk on the night their daughter had supposedly gone "missing". Far more important then searching for their helpless little 3 year old girl. Along with their other many strange priorities, such as deleting all but one logged call detailand all texts from their phones covering their entire time in Portugal. Around 64 in total. All perfectly normal behaviour under their horrifying and vehemently insisted upon version of events. As was all of their subsequent strange behaviour which they're still acting out now like fools. As usual unable to resist digging their too deep hole even deeper.

SY's Andy Redwood.
2014
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/mar/19/madeleine-mccann-police-intruder-girls-algarve
Detective Chief Inspector Andy Redwood there was a possibility that she had not left her family's holiday apartment alive when she disappeared in May 2007.
Redwood said the assumption that Madeleine was abducted "may not follow with all our thinking" on the case.
Did they threaten SY with litigation?

Maybe start looking further than anything the McCanns have allowed, such as the PJ flies which consists of UK police and PJ reports, a good place to start.

[user104658]

I do have to admire LT for sticking with this one. I mean, basically everyone else is united in suspecting that the McCanns have at least been "less than truthful" about events. People who disagree on every other topic under the sun are all like "Oh yeah but the McCanns are well dodgy."

But not LT! LT still believes in Kate goddamnit, until the end. He's the Sam to her Frodo :worry:.

[ebandit]

what a fiasco

the truth is out there.....................somewhere!

Mark L

[the truth]

the truth is out there.....................somewhere!

Mark L

only 1 person knows the full brutal truth and sadly she died 10 yrs ago

[Suze]

Yes,I forgot about the couch and the dosing of the children,if that was the case ,it's still terrible for them to cover that up ,infact probably worse than one of them losing their temper for a second and accidently killing her.I wonder if we will ever find out ?

You never know as Forensics seems to have come on in leaps and bounds in recent years, where once a minute piece of DNA etc, was pretty much useless, now I believe can be enhanced so it can yield better results, so maybe they will come closer to solving the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance soon.

[user104658]

only 1 person knows the full brutal truth and sadly she died 10 yrs ago
I actually don't think (thankfully) that the poor little girl would have had any idea of what happened to her. Considering her death was (to me) almost certainly a covered up accident, I find it likely that whatever happened to her was either instant or in her sleep.

Which is also one of the really sick parts if it where her parents are concerned to be honest. They know fine well that she didn't suffer or at least didn't suffer for long, but they would have the world imagining untold torments, the stuff of serious nightmares, with their abduction fantasies.

[Kazanne]

You never know as Forensics seems to have come on in leaps and bounds in recent years, where once a minute piece of DNA etc, was pretty much useless, now I believe can be enhanced so it can yield better results, so maybe they will come closer to solving the mystery of Madeleine McCann's disappearance soon.

I hope so Suze:bawling:

[Jamie89]

I do have to admire LT for sticking with this one. I mean, basically everyone else is united in suspecting that the McCanns have at least been "less than truthful" about events. People who disagree on every other topic under the sun are all like "Oh yeah but the McCanns are well dodgy."

But not LT! LT still believes in Kate goddamnit, until the end. He's the Sam to her Frodo :worry:.

I'm with LT on this one :worry: I haven't read this particular thread because I find the McCann discussions a bit exhausting tbh, and it's not that I don't think there's a possibility they could have been involved, there is just as there are numerous possibilities. But there's no actual evidence that they had anything to do with it, just things that look kinda dodgy, but nothing that would equate them to being child killers. Yes some scenarios that get suggested sound very unlikely, but then the scenario of parents killing their own child or covering up their child's death is also something that's extremely unlikely, so I never understand the 'well that's too unlikely, they must have been involved' argument towards what I think are plausible scenarios. So since noone really knows what happened that night I don't know why, of all the possibilities, that so many people seem so convinced that the McCanns played a part in it. I can't help but think that maybe it's because it makes it more sensationalist and more of an interesting story? I don't really get it tbh.

[the truth]

I'm with LT on this one :worry: I haven't read this particular thread because I find the McCann discussions a bit exhausting tbh, and it's not that I don't think there's a possibility they could have been involved, there is just as there are numerous possibilities. But there's no actual evidence that they had anything to do with it, just things that look kinda dodgy, but nothing that would equate them to being child killers. Yes some scenarios that get suggested sound very unlikely, but then the scenario of parents killing their own child or covering up their child's death is also something that's extremely unlikely, so I never understand the 'well that's too unlikely, they must have been involved' argument towards what I think are plausible scenarios. So since noone really knows what happened that night I don't know why, of all the possibilities, that so many people seem so convinced that the McCanns played a part in it. I can't help but think that maybe it's because it makes it more sensationalist and more of an interesting story? I don't really get it tbh.

there is way more evidence they covered it up , than she was taken....at the very least they were appallingly neglectful parents who changed their stories umpteen times, who damaged the crime scene evidence, who left doors and windows open, who used charity money to sue people for a decade and who used public and police resources for 10 years at the expense of other thousands of lost children.....but we all know thats just the best case scenario for the mccanns, whats the horrific reality?

[Niamh.]

There is actual evidence though Jamie.The only phsyical evidence points to Maddie dying in the apartment and cadaver scent was found not only in the apartment but also on Kates clothes

[Crimson Dynamo]

the maccans are innocent, people have to deal with it and stop reaching

[ebandit]

only 1 person knows the full brutal truth and sadly she died 10 yrs ago


..........at least one knows...........otherwise we would see maddie


.........read so much............if it was the truth the case would be long solved
/closed

....well? it would....would it not......................

Mark L

[Jamie89]

There is actual evidence though Jamie.The only phsyical evidence points to Maddie dying in the apartment and cadaver scent was found not only in the apartment but also on Kates clothes

Wasn't the cadaver scent evidence deemed unreliable though? I think 'evidence' was probably the wrong word :laugh: What I mean is there's no proof, or at least no evidence that's convinced me of their guilt.

[Niamh.]

Wasn't the cadaver scent evidence deemed unreliable though? I think 'evidence' was probably the wrong word [emoji23] What I mean is there's no proof, or at least no evidence that's convinced me of their guilt.
Well apparantly it would have been good enough to charge them in the UK but Portugese DNA evidence rules are tighter

[Jamie89]

Well apparantly it would have been good enough to charge them in the UK but Portugese DNA evidence rules are tighter

Is that not because of the dogs used though rather than the evidence itself, I thought it was more because the Portuguese dogs had a much lower success rate in identifying the scent correctly (or the specific dogs that were used had a low success rate...I could be wrong about that but I'm sure it was the case?)

[Niamh.]

It was British dogs though that they used and highly successful British dogs

[Niamh.]

I cant post a link now cos i'm on my phone but you should just check out the dogs, they had a British handler too. They were brought into the 4 couples apartments and the McCanns wss the only one they indicated an odour, same with the hire car, they checked a good few but the McCanns car is the only one they indicated

[Jamie89]

It was British dogs though that they used and highly successful British dogs

Actually yeah I've just checked and I was confused with a case that the McCanns referenced after the cadaver scent was found, they used a case where a man was found not guilty of murder because the particular cadaver dogs used in his case were unreliable. But yeah I'll admit that's pretty damning, I think maybe I need to read up more about it because having a brief look through this thread there's a lot I wasn't aware of. I've just always thought that there was no proof, no charges etc, and that the kidnap scenario is plausible (the alternative being so horrific).

[Black Dagger]

Stick them behind bars where they belong already.