12 Monkeys | Final season in June [Archive] - ThisisBigBrother.com

Lostie!

12-02-2017, 03:09 PM

http://i.imgur.com/sp66XKv.jpg

Time traveler James Cole travels from the year 2043 to the present day to stop the release of a deadly virus by the enigmatic organization known as "The Army of the Twelve Monkeys". That virus, in Cole's future, caused the death of most of the world's population. Led by a cryptic message from the past, Cole makes contact with the brilliant virologist Cassandra Railly, who he believes is the key to stopping the virus. Cole also enlists the help of Jennifer Goines (the insane daughter of the virus' creator), and his best friend Ramse to stop the initial outbreak. As Cole journeys through time in an effort to stop the virus, he realizes the Army of the 12 Monkeys have a larger, more mysterious agenda.

Does anyone else on here watch this? It's loosely based on the movie of the same name so it has the same general premise, but ends up diverging and pretty much becoming it's own entity with nods to the original.

I'm 7 episodes into the first season at the moment and I'm really into it. I expected I would be though, it combines a few of my favourite types of story (time travel, virus outbreak, mystery).

I haven't seen the movie it's based on but I think that's helped me enjoy the show without trying to compare them. I do know a fair bit about how the movie goes though and I think taking the approach of doing their own thing with the premise is a good idea, rather than trying to do the exact same thing. I know it had a lot of naysayers when it was first announced but from what I've seen online, it seems to have won a lot of people around.

Niamh.

12-02-2017, 03:21 PM

I've seen the movie but not that series, I loved the film so I might give it a go

Jamie89

12-02-2017, 03:22 PM

I didn't even know it was a show tbh, I've seen the movie and really enjoyed it so I'd be interested to give it a go.

Lostie!

13-02-2017, 06:48 PM

Just finished the first season and can easily say this is now one of my favourite shows. Very trippy and brain-wracking but in the best way. :clap1: (and since Lost, Fringe and Westworld are among my other favourites, it's not a surprise that I love that aspect of it :laugh:)

Gonna start season 2 soon, most likely gonna get through it in no time so I hope season 3 isn't too many months away!

Vicky.

13-02-2017, 06:52 PM

Ahh I started watching this ages ago then our sky cut out so my boxsets were gone and I totally forgot about it. I only watched 4 episodes I think and they were really good. I think I will start watching it again once I get through the last series of orange is the new black.

Niamh.

13-02-2017, 07:42 PM

Watched ep 1 last night, seems really good so far

Lostie!

13-02-2017, 09:54 PM

Might give the film a watch sometime soon, it will make it easier to spot any references to it the show makes. Speaking of, Madeleine Stowe (Railly in the movie) appeared in season 2 apparently but I've been keeping away from details about her role until I watch it :laugh:

Cal.

13-02-2017, 09:55 PM

You're always bloody watching everything!

Lostie!

13-02-2017, 09:58 PM

I've recently dropped about 5 shows to make room for new blood so shush, be constructive or get out :idc:

Niamh.

15-02-2017, 04:12 PM

I'm up to episode 3

I hated that Cole killed Henri :( I liked him

Lostie!

15-02-2017, 04:19 PM

I'm up to episode 3

I hated that Cole killed Henri :( I liked him

Nice twist though :cool:

Niamh.

15-02-2017, 04:23 PM

Nice twist though :cool:

Yeah, I suppose he had to really to stop him telling jasmine and lavender man what he told him about the secret lab but still :bawling:

Lostie!

15-02-2017, 04:33 PM

Niamh.

15-02-2017, 04:35 PM

Oh I love him, such a creepy villain. And I think us not knowing his name adds to that. His introduction in the second episode when he killed Cassie's friend and covered him in petals is still one of my favourite scenes.

Did you watch the film yet? I might have a rewatch of it, it was years ago when i saw it, from what i remember though Brad Pitt played the Jennifer character, I think anyway :think:

Lostie!

15-02-2017, 04:41 PM

Did you watch the film yet? I might have a rewatch of it, it was years ago when i saw it, from what i remember though Brad Pitt played the Jennifer character, I think anyway :think:

Oh no I still need to actually. Might do tonight! And yeah, I read that he plays Jeffrey Goines who became Jennifer Goines in the show.

Niamh.

15-02-2017, 04:43 PM

Oh no I still need to actually. Might do tonight! And yeah, I read that he plays Jeffrey Goines who became Jennifer Goines in the show.

he was brilliant in it, he stole the whole show imo

Lostie!

15-02-2017, 05:31 PM

he was brilliant in it, he stole the whole show imo

I'm interested to see the original version since Jennifer is one of my favourite characters on the show.

Her, Jones, the Pallid Man (that seems to be the official term for the creepy petal guy :laugh:) and another character you'll meet in a few episodes are my favourites.

Lostie!

15-02-2017, 08:07 PM

I'm 4 episodes into season 2 and my mind is blown. So Mantis (the female Messenger) is the Pallid Man's mother and that's where he got his "sprinkling petals on his victims" thing from. :o

It's crazy to think that he was born around the 1940s/50s and his mother was born in 2016 when he's an elderly man. This is why I love time travel :joker: :clap2: There have been loads of cool timey wimey twists I've loved on this show but that and the Ramse reveals in episode 11 of season 1 are my favourites so far. :clap1:

I think of the different shows I've seen that have employed time travel, 12 Monkeys has been my favourite in terms of executing it in a really cool way and utilizing it to deliver some really great plot twists.

Marsh.

15-02-2017, 08:09 PM

Is this the show with Legend Victoria Grayson?

Lostie!

15-02-2017, 08:10 PM

Only in the season 2 finale but yes (well, and a voiceover in the premiere :hee:). She could very well appear in season 3 too but since I'm not fully caught up yet I'm staying away from reading ahead :laugh:

Marsh.

15-02-2017, 08:13 PM

One episode? Pfft.

Niamh.

15-02-2017, 08:44 PM

I'm interested to see the original version since Jennifer is one of my favourite characters on the show.

Her, Jones, the Pallid Man (that seems to be the official term for the creepy petal guy [emoji23]) and another character you'll meet in a few episodes are my favourites.
I like Jennifer aswell, I think its just a good character in both the tv and film versions and Brad Pitt played it well too

Lostie!

07-03-2017, 12:13 AM

Completely forgot to come back and update my thoughts when I finished season 2 a couple of weeks back :ninja2:

Another great season tbh. There were a few little aspects of season 2 I wasn't fully sold on but it was really good regardless and delivered some of my favourite episodes of the show so far.

I just wasn't a big fan of Jones' massacre of Spearhead from season 1 being undone. It was such a pivotal and powerful moment and having that timeline reset undercuts the effect in retrospect (although Jones still remembers it and I like that).

Also not a big fan of Deacon (I really like the actor, seen him on a few shows but I just don't really see Deacon's point :worry:).

But yeah, small quibbles on the whole. I really loved the reveal of The Witness being Cole and Cassie's future child. I was convinced it would be a future Cole (especially when he ended up living in the house from the Witness visions) so it was a really cool twist.

Olivia finally showing up in the future :worship: This whole time I've been assuming she's dead by that point so kept expecting her to be killed off in the present day storyline, very happy that's not the case. She's one of my absolute favourite TV villains :love: And her being the person who took Sam was a total surprise, as was her being the Pallid Man's sister.

Christopher Lloyd is guest starring in season 3 :amazed: I hope we see Madeleine Stowe again too, her character was really interesting.

Lostie!

07-03-2017, 12:54 AM

Found out who Christopher Lloyd is playing

Lloyd will play Zalmon Shaw, a charming but deadly cult leader who preys upon other’s tragedies and losses in order to recruit new members into the apocalyptic cult the “Army of the 12 Monkeys.” Shaw is the father of the series’ most imposing villain, the enigmatic Pallid Man.

Surely we'll find out the Pallid Man's name this season then :laugh:

Loving the sound this :clap1:

Niamh.

09-03-2017, 12:48 PM

Gav has gotten fed up with this already. I still really like it but it's going to take longer to get through now

Lostie!

16-03-2017, 07:01 PM

Renewed for a fourth and final season. I had worried that season 3 would be the last and it might end without the chance for a proper conclusion so this is actually really great news. Can enjoy season 3 now with the knowledge it's returning once more next year and getting a real ending :clap1:

Also, season 3 is premiering in the US on May 19 and will air over 3 consecutive nights as opposed to one weekly. That's new :laugh:

Lostie!

18-03-2017, 12:12 PM

I've just realised something crazy. The 12 babies who grew up to become the Messengers, including Olivia and Pallid Man's mother, were created from Olivia's DNA (that detail completely slipped my mind), which means Olivia's mother is also her daughter and they're both their own grandmothers And Olivia is both sister and grandmother to the Pallid Man :joker:

And then there's the whole cool time loop with how Olivia's mother's DNA was used to create Olivia, leading to Olivia's DNA being used to create her mother etc. :laugh:

As I've said before, this show has the most fun with the time travel concept :joker: :clap1:

Niamh.

20-03-2017, 02:18 PM

Started Season 2. The whole Cassie personality transplant was a bit odd I thought

Lostie!

20-03-2017, 03:27 PM

Her new attitude was a little jarring in the first episode (though I can buy it since some time has passed since we last saw her) but it does become less so as it goes on.

How did you find season 1 on the whole?

Niamh.

20-03-2017, 03:30 PM

Lostie!

20-03-2017, 03:33 PM

Oh good! :clap1: Yeah there was a lot of skepticism when it was first announced (the combination of Syfy and being an adaptation of a classic movie) but it seems to have been a pleasant surprise for a lot of people.

Niamh.

20-03-2017, 03:36 PM

Well i loved the movie and I always find time travel interesting (if a bit confusing)

Lostie!

20-03-2017, 03:45 PM

Yeah time travel has always been one of my favourite tropes and I love that this show really embraces the potential craziness of it and uses it to deliver some brilliant twists :laugh:

I absolutely loved the episode where Ramse was stranded in the past and became a member of the 12 Monkeys and we saw various events of the season from a new perspective :worship:

Any characters in particular you like / dislike?

Niamh.

20-03-2017, 03:50 PM

Lostie!

20-03-2017, 04:01 PM

Jennifer :love:

My overall favourite is probably Olivia, the 12 Monkeys woman with the short hair. Love Jones too.

Niamh.

20-03-2017, 04:04 PM

Jennifer :love:

My overall favourite is probably Olivia, the 12 Monkeys woman with the short hair. Love Jones too.

Olivia? really? I find her and her whispery voice so annoying :laugh: Jones is getting more likeable as time goes on, I liked the younger Jones too, gave her a bit more depth and understanding I think

Lostie!

20-03-2017, 04:18 PM

I LOVE her voice :laugh: Yeah I always like the mysterious, sinister ones the most, I find her so intriguing.

Marsh.

20-03-2017, 04:19 PM

Fourth and final? :omgno: Is that a good thing?

Niamh.

20-03-2017, 04:23 PM

Fourth and final? :omgno: Is that a good thing?

A show like 12 Monkeys shouldn't be dragged on for too long imo

Lostie!

20-03-2017, 04:30 PM

Fourth and final? :omgno: Is that a good thing?

The showrunners have said in the past they they'd like four seasons to tell their complete intended story and that they've known what the ending will be the whole time so it seems that it's reaching it's natural conclusion. And also season 3 hasn't even aired yet so they gave them the season 4 renewal pretty early which is good too.

Niamh.

20-03-2017, 04:31 PM

The showrunners have said in the past they they'd like four seasons to tell their complete intended story and that they've known what the ending will be the whole time so it seems that it's reaching it's natural conclusion. And also season 3 hasn't even aired yet so they gave them the season 4 renewal pretty early which is good too.

I'm really glad to hear that, I hate when they drag shows out for seasons just because they're popular *cough*Lost*cough*

Lostie!

20-03-2017, 04:39 PM

I'm really glad to hear that, I hate when they drag shows out for seasons just because they're popular *cough*Lost*cough*

:joker:

Yeah I was reading about it and their original goal was 3 seasons but that was later amended to 4 so I'm glad Syfy gave them the fourth season. And I like that they've had plans for the story all along rather than just winging it and seeing how long they can keep it going.

Niamh.

20-03-2017, 04:41 PM

:joker:

Yeah I was reading about it and their original goal was 3 seasons but that was later amended to 4 so I'm glad Syfy gave them the fourth season. And I like that they've had plans for the story all along rather than just winging it and seeing how long they can keep it going.

Definitely, I don't think you can have a proper ending otherwise especially to a story like this one

Lostie!

20-03-2017, 04:46 PM

Definitely, I don't think you can have a proper ending otherwise especially to a story like this one

Yeah exactly. And I know ratings for the show aren't exactly huge so I was worried it would be cancelled after season 3 so big respect to Syfy for giving it the chance to tell the whole story. It gets really good reviews so I like to think that factor made a difference.

Did you know the voiceover in the season 2 premiere (the "I want to tell you a story about how the world ends" part) was Madeleine Stowe from the movie? I thought it was Olivia at first :laugh:

Niamh.

20-03-2017, 04:49 PM

Yeah exactly. And I know ratings for the show aren't exactly huge so I was worried it would be cancelled after season 3 so big respect to Syfy for giving it the chance to tell the whole story. It gets really good reviews so I like to think that factor made a difference.

Did you know the voiceover in the season 2 premiere (the "I want to tell you a story about how the world ends" part) was Madeleine Stowe from the movie? I thought it was Olivia at first :laugh:

Oh was it? that's cool

I think some people may be put off when they make a film into a TV series, i know it's put me off watching the TV series of Lethal Weapon for example.

Lostie!

20-03-2017, 04:56 PM

Oh was it? that's cool

I think some people may be put off when they make a film into a TV series, i know it's put me off watching the TV series of Lethal Weapon for example.

Yeah I know what you mean. I think 12 Monkeys has succeeded because it's a great balance of having references to the movie while doing pretty much their own story. If they tried to do a carbon copy, it wouldn't work because it's two different mediums. Likewise, if they strayed too far and it felt like 12 Monkeys in name only, movie fans would be alienated so I think they took the best approach.

Marsh.

20-03-2017, 04:59 PM

The showrunners have said in the past they they'd like four seasons to tell their complete intended story and that they've known what the ending will be the whole time so it seems that it's reaching it's natural conclusion. And also season 3 hasn't even aired yet so they gave them the season 4 renewal pretty early which is good too.

Oh good, so it hasn't been axed prematurely. :clap1:

Niamh.

20-03-2017, 05:01 PM

Yeah I know what you mean. I think 12 Monkeys has succeeded because it's a great balance of having references to the movie while doing pretty much their own story. If they tried to do a carbon copy, it wouldn't work because it's two different mediums. Likewise, if they strayed too far and it felt like 12 Monkeys in name only, movie fans would be alienated so I think they took the best approach.

I'm going to rewatch the movie cos I only barely remember it but I think I might wait till after the TV series end

Northern Monkey

20-03-2017, 05:20 PM

Gav has gotten fed up with this already. I still really like it but it's going to take longer to get through now

I was getting like that with it.Started getting bored during season 2 but glad i stuck with it til the end.

Lostie!

20-03-2017, 08:04 PM

oh good, so it hasn't been axed prematurely. :clap1:

Also found this on Twitter

843648724656046080

So it isn't even a case of being cancelled but granted one final season to cram in an ending but rather it seems to be ending exactly when it was planned to. A show neither ending earlier than hoped or going on too long, a rare breed nowadays :clap1:

There are so many showrunners out there who have the "keep it going as long as possible" attitude which is honestly just annoying and not great storytelling imo, kudos to this show for both having a plan and sticking to it (and Syfy for allowing them to).

Niamh.

22-03-2017, 12:00 PM

Also found this on Twitter

843648724656046080

So it isn't even a case of being cancelled but granted one final season to cram in an ending but rather it seems to be ending exactly when it was planned to. A show neither ending earlier than hoped or going on too long, a rare breed nowadays :clap1:

There are so many showrunners out there who have the "keep it going as long as possible" attitude which is honestly just annoying and not great storytelling imo, kudos to this show for both having a plan and sticking to it (and Syfy for allowing them to).

Couldn't agree more, it ruins potentially great shows too, for me a proper ending is vital. I know you disagree with me about Lost but imo they should have made that 2 seasons long max, also Dexter was ruined too

I'm about 5 episodes into Season 2 now with 12 Monkeys , it's getting really interesting

Lostie!

22-03-2017, 03:25 PM

Couldn't agree more, it ruins potentially great shows too, for me a proper ending is vital. I know you disagree with me about Lost but imo they should have made that 2 seasons long max, also Dexter was ruined too

I'm about 5 episodes into Season 2 now with 12 Monkeys , it's getting really interesting

I actually don't necessarily disagree about Lost. Still one of my favourite shows but they definitely did have too many ideas at times, a lot of interesting characters popped up with apparent significance and vanished without their role in the story being explained. Stuff like that always irked me.

I hope you loved episode 3. That reveal with the Messenger being Pallid Man's mother

:worship:

Niamh.

22-03-2017, 03:30 PM

I actually don't necessarily disagree about Lost. Still one of my favourite shows but they definitely did have too many ideas at times, a lot of interesting characters popped up with apparent significance and vanished without their role in the story being explained. Stuff like that always irked me.

I hope you loved episode 3. That reveal with the Messenger being Pallid Man's mother

:worship:

Yeah, a TV series should be no different to a movie or a book in that it should have a beginning , a middle and an end to the story thought out before the ever air an episode, I don't care if people guess the ending or whatever, they should stick to it, especially big mystery shows like 12 Monkeys or Lost

Yes that was great, it's all getting so loopy and mind melding but in a good way :laugh:

Lostie!

22-03-2017, 04:16 PM

Yeah, a TV series should be no different to a movie or a book in that it should have a beginning , a middle and an end to the story thought out before the ever air an episode, I don't care if people guess the ending or whatever, they should stick to it, especially big mystery shows like 12 Monkeys or Lost

Definitely. That's why I felt so satisfied with the first season of Westworld, they actually delivered answers as opposed to stringing out all the same mysteries and each reveal had clues throughout the season rather than being random twists that make no sense because they weren't planned.

Yes that was great, it's all getting so loopy and mind melding but in a good way :laugh:

I loved the part in episode 4 too when we saw it was future Ramse on the phone in the previous episode :laugh:

Lostie!

22-03-2017, 06:22 PM

Oh and Septa Unella herself Hannah Waddingham is in season 3 :love:

Niamh.

23-03-2017, 09:45 PM

Just watched episode 8 that was so good probably my favourite episode yet

Hannah is alive :amazed:

Also I have a theory that
Sam is the witness

Lostie!

23-03-2017, 10:00 PM

Ooh nearly caught up already! :clap1:

Niamh.

24-03-2017, 10:38 AM

I know you can't comment without spoiling it for me but I think that

The witness says "I've seen the beginning and the end" and when Sam splintered it looked like he'd gone back to the beginning of time and someone was waiting for him. I think that Cassie being taken over wasn't to destroy the machine but to take Sam so that he would splinter back and become the Witness, what else was the point in her taking him, she didn't need him to destroy the machine :think:

Don't confirm or deny :laugh:

Niamh.

28-03-2017, 08:49 AM

Ok so my theory was way off [emoji23] season 2 was amazing though, watched the last 3 episodes back to back last night, the end was a big shock

Lostie!

28-03-2017, 12:19 PM

Niamh.

28-03-2017, 12:32 PM

I'm really glad you loved it :clap1: Throughout the last two episodes I was more convinced than ever that Cole was the Witness, especially when we saw him living in the house from the visions. A great red herring for it being their child, and it makes total sense when you go back to season 1 and they say about Cassandra being special etc.

Yeah, it's fantastic and it's made so well, they manage to shock so much with the twists but they still make sense, that's no mean feat. The fact that the child that shouldn't exist is the Witness makes so much sense but why would that child end up wanting to destroy time though is the question? :think:

Lostie!

28-03-2017, 04:38 PM

Yeah I have no theories about everything surrounding the Witness atm so I'm excited to see how it pans out, but I think especially with knowing it's ending next year, it's gonna be satisfying because they're not padding the story out to go on for longer.

I hope we get a reason as to why they're called the Witness specifically too. Maybe because they've been witness to all of time or something?

Niamh.

28-03-2017, 05:08 PM

Lostie!

28-03-2017, 05:31 PM

Ah good point!

I know you don't like her but I'm really interested to see where Olivia's story goes from here since she's not with the 12 Monkeys anymore. Looks like she wants to go against the Witness now but I can't see her ever being a true ally to the good guys. I'm just happy we've finally had her showing up in the future, they did the right thing by only showing her in the past for most of the first two seasons so when Jennifer attacked her, I really did think she was gonna die.

Quite fitting though that Jennifer, who Olivia manipulated into doing the Witness' bidding, was the catalyst for Olivia herself turning against him/her (since her being wheelchair-bound for a time was what led to her losing her authority and being tossed aside).

Niamh.

28-03-2017, 05:35 PM

Lostie!

28-03-2017, 05:46 PM

I like her a bit more since she turned against the witness and we got more of her back story.

:clap1: Progress!

Yeah I loved her backstory episode. I love that a character who I expected to just be a mouthpiece for the Witness is now being fleshed out a lot more as all good villains should be and her motives (both for initially being loyal to the Witness and now for turning against them) all make sense. I don't want her to suddenly be all nice etc because that wouldn't be her but I'm definitely excited to see if she ends up forming some sort of alliance with Cole etc.[

Lostie!

12-04-2017, 06:04 PM

Season 3 trailer!

CzDWJKuwU5g

Looks like James Callis is playing the Witness as I thought when the casting was announced.

And the new poster is hot

http://cdn2us.denofgeek.com/sites/denofgeekus/files/styles/article_width/public/2017/04/12-monkeys-season-3-key-art.jpg?itok=0A1ipNH1

Lostie!

22-04-2017, 01:51 PM

Syfy UK premiere date for season 3 is May 26th, a week after the US premiere (and it's airing over 3 nights like with the US airing).

I wasn't sure at first but I'm really excited for how season 3 is being aired now, sort of like the Netflix style but in 3 batches rather than all at once. It's too addictive to have to make do with one a week :flutter:

Lostie!

24-04-2017, 10:54 PM

Really positive advance review (spoiler free) of the first 4 episodes of season 3. Really can't wait :clap1:

Nothing is held back in the first four episode of season three. It’s a ride that serves as the first act of a story. An act that ends in a way that will leave viewers breathless. It’s a moment that changes the definition of what this show can be. 12 Monkeys has been solidified, once and for all, as the cool show on Syfy. The dangerous one. The one that, much like fan favorite Jennifer Goines, could snap at any moment. In season three, 12 Monkeys is a show out to stun, hurt and elate. It’s a show ready to win, and win it does.

:flutter:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillbarr/2017/04/24/12-monkeys-season-3-review/

Niamh.

25-04-2017, 08:55 AM

:amazed: can't wait for this, it's actually right up there for me as one of my favourite shows

Lostie!

25-04-2017, 02:54 PM

:amazed: can't wait for this, it's actually right up there for me as one of my favourite shows

Same, I'm pleasantly surprised by just how into it I ended up :laugh: :love:

And I'm just really glad I can enjoy the upcoming season with the knowledge that it won't be abruptly cancelled at the end of it :laugh:

Niamh.

25-04-2017, 02:57 PM

Yeah nothing worse than not getting proper closure :laugh:

Oh I started watching 11.22.63 Lostie, I think you might find it interesting

Lostie!

25-04-2017, 03:20 PM

Oh I heard about that when it was airing, the James Franco one? Definitely sounds like something I'd like, and I think it was a one-off thing so should be easy to watch :laugh:

Niamh.

25-04-2017, 03:21 PM

Oh I heard about that when it was airing, the James Franco one? Definitely sounds like something I'd like, and I think it was a one-off thing so should be easy to watch :laugh:

It just reminded me of 12 Monkeys as it's time travelish as well, I watched the first 2 episodes and it's decent enough so far

ETA : Yes the James Franco one, it's based on a Stephen King book

Lostie!

25-04-2017, 03:53 PM

I'll give it a go :cool:

I hope Jones still has her new dog in season 3 (and I hope This Little Bastard is its official name) :laugh: I was wondering if it's the same dog that Cole and Ramse were gonna eat but didn't in that early season 1 episode

Niamh.

25-04-2017, 04:04 PM

Lostie!

25-04-2017, 04:12 PM

Oh I stand corrected, it was "this little sh!t" :joker:

769175000175681536

Definitely the same dog! Good, I was wondering what became of it since those flashbacks (the animals are literally always my first concern in these things :laugh:)

Lostie!

01-05-2017, 08:09 PM

Turns out they're already filming season 4, probably thanks to the early renewal so they didn't have to wait for season 3 to air first :clap1:

Something I really want before the show ends is some insight on Cole's mother. They mentioned in season 1 that she was afraid that the 12 Monkeys were after her, this really does feel like a show where the story has been well planned out so I have faith we'll get the pay-off eventually :cool:.

Niamh.

02-05-2017, 09:01 AM

Lostie!

02-05-2017, 09:58 AM

Oh yeah I thought about his mother too, I had this mad theory that :

The witness is actually Cole himself and he's his own dad lol so Cassie is his mother.......

http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif

I can see the Jerry Springer episode now. "I impregnated my own mother with myself". :omgno:

For a good chunk of season 1, I thought Jones might be an older Cassandra :whistle: (with a different accent for some reason). Jones' first name being Katarina and the original version of Cassandra in the movie being called Kathryn just made me think it even more :laugh:

Niamh.

02-05-2017, 10:01 AM

I can see the Jerry Springer episode now. "I impregnated my own mother with myself". :omgno:

For a good chunk of season 1, I thought Jones might be an older Cassandra :whistle: (with a different accent for some reason). Jones' first name being Katarina and the original version of Cassandra in the movie being called Kathryn just made me think it even more :laugh:

:laugh2:

This is what i love about 12 Monkeys though, it makes me think of the weirdest twists and I'm wrong everytime which I'm glad about :laugh:

Lostie!

02-05-2017, 10:11 AM

:laugh2:

This is what i love about 12 Monkeys though, it makes me think of the weirdest twists and I'm wrong everytime which I'm glad about :laugh:

Yeah definitely, time travel gives you the opportunity to consider all sorts of possibilities which just adds to the fun. Especially when ideas that might sound bizarre like your mother also being your daughter and you being your own and your brother's grandmother have already happened in the show :laugh: (no wonder Olivia is a bit off :whistle:).

The way they play with the whole chicken / egg idea with their time travel is brilliant.

Lostie!

14-05-2017, 06:30 PM

This is cool (not actually spoilery, just big pictures :laugh:)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoLKNjsVMAAMrV_.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoLKNjtUsAAHS1K.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CoLKNjuVIAAy5OW.jpg

I'd be convinced Lillian was Jennifer's mother (especially since we know her mother was mentally ill too) if the years matched up but she'd be in her 70s around the time Jennifer is born going off Madeleine Stowe's real age. Then again, this is a show that has time travel and particular people with decelerated aging so it's not entirely outside the realm of possibility :laugh: Although I think it's more likely they were just drawing parallels between them due to their similarities.

Lostie!

15-05-2017, 12:13 PM

863855073285337089

:flutter:

Lostie!

19-05-2017, 02:50 PM

Tonight!! (well, tomorrow since I'm not in the US but still)

IGN have posted their review of season 3 and it's another extremely positive one. They gave it a 9.5/10 :flutter:

I've seen quite a few reviews and tweets from those who've seen the season early and literally every one has said how brilliant it is. My expectations are high. :fc:

The one thing about the whole season being aired over one weekend is that it will take a hell of a lot of willpower to stop myself from watching them all too quickly. :laugh:

Niamh.

19-05-2017, 02:52 PM

:amazed: I wish Gav watched it though, would make bingeing it easier, did you say it was all being released in one? :fist:

Lostie!

19-05-2017, 02:56 PM

:amazed: I wish Gav watched it though, would make bingeing it easier, did you say it was all being released in one? :fist:

Not all at once but over 3 consecutive nights, first 4 episodes tonight. :laugh:

Niamh.

19-05-2017, 03:03 PM

Not all at once but over 3 consecutive nights, first 4 episodes tonight. :laugh:

Ugh I want to watch them back to back but I won't ohhhhhh I just remembered Gav is going out to the Pub on Sunday to watch the Liverpool match.sorted :amazed:

Lostie!

19-05-2017, 03:45 PM

Might finally watch the movie tonight to mark Season 3 Eve :hee:

Niamh.

19-05-2017, 03:46 PM

Might finally watch the movie tonight to mark Season 3 Eve :hee:

I'm going to wait until I watch the TV series before I re watch the film

Lostie!

19-05-2017, 04:10 PM

Fun fact of the day that nobody asked for: The movie was itself inspired by another movie from the 60s called La Jetée that's apparently almost completely comprised of still pictures and voice-over narration.

Lostie!

20-05-2017, 12:43 PM

Just watched the first episode, really good opener :clap1:

I absolutely love Magdalena, I hope she's a prominent presence throughout the season. Between Magdalena and Septa Unella, Hannah Waddingham certainly plays fanatical religious psychopaths well :laugh: I found it interesting when she was talking to Cassandra about what it means to be a mother, she seemed to have anger / sadness on her face, I hope there's a backstory there. I felt as if she had been abandoned. I love how the relationships between parents and children has been an ongoing theme of the show all the way.

Ariana :( What a BITCH MOVE, MAGDALENA.

Jennifer's 99 Luftballons musical dream sequence was amazing, very reminiscent of The Name Game in AHS :joker: Very intrigued by the "four horsemen of the apocalypse" she had a vision of wearing the device that Future Cole and Magdalena wore. I already know from press releases for the season what their general role is, that they're called The Guardians and are tasked with protecting The Witness so I assume the infant Witness is inside the box they were carrying but I'm still interested to learn more about them. They look cool af too.

Loved having future versions of Cole and Cassie coming into play too. And I'm a sucker for a causality loop which this show does so well so I liked how Cole got the information he needs for the next step of his mission from his future self, who would have known to give him(self) the information because he already received it from himself etc etc... Yeah, I'm glad this show is back. :love:

Lostie!

20-05-2017, 11:49 PM

Watched all 4 episodes now. Olivia at Project Splinter is so surreal :laugh: I've been wanting her and Jones to meet ever since season 1 and their interactions did not disappoint. Jones using the time machine to torture her though, as much as I love Olivia that was pretty epic.

Ramse dead :shocked: Usually I'd be skeptical about it lasting what with this being a time travel show but him saying "Don't undo this" makes me think he's not coming back anytime soon. Wasn't expecting Sam to be killed off either (or to be so much older than when we last saw him).

Jennifer putting on one-woman performances of ET, Jaws and Alien in 1921 :joker: Also cracked up at her playing The Witness.

Ready for the next 3 :pipe:

JTM45

21-05-2017, 08:44 AM

I loved the film so when the series originally started i watched three or four episodes and just lost interest really quick.
I've seen a few screen shots from recent episodes that looked much more interesting though (some kind of time travel portal center kinda' thing!) so maybe i'll give it another go.
On the subject of 'portals'............i saw the proper trailer for 'The Dark Tower' last night and it looked rather intriguing to say the least..............and the first episode of the new 'Twin Peaks' premieres tonight of course!!!!!:laugh:

Lostie!

21-05-2017, 05:36 PM

It's grown a lot since the first few episodes. I liked it from the start but the mythology really deepens and expands significantly as the show progresses.

Niamh.

21-05-2017, 07:01 PM

Just about to watch episode 5 :amazed:

Lostie!

21-05-2017, 07:06 PM

Same but episode 6 :cool: Liking the season so far?

Niamh.

21-05-2017, 07:09 PM

Yeah I love it
Shame about Ramse though :(

Niamh.

21-05-2017, 07:13 PM

I love Jennifer 😂

Lostie!

21-05-2017, 08:11 PM

Episodes 5 and 6 done! Kid Witness and Kid Pallid Man were just as creepy as the grown up ones! Got major "Are you my mummy?" vibes when Mini Witness (guess we can call him Athan now) put on the gas mask :laugh: Loved the reveal that he's Primary too.

Christopher Lloyd was brilliantly sinister as expected :clap1: Great to have Scottie Thompson back too, definitely one of the most interesting characters in the show.

Bit confused as to why that one Guardian stayed behind when they gassed the tent though. Or did I miss something?

The 80s episode was hilarious, wouldn't really expect a comedy caper esque episode from 12 Monkeys but it was great. Olivia as Jennifer was one of the weirdest (in the best way) things I've seen and not something I thought I ever would :joker: Btw I had no idea Jennifer's mother's surname was Markridge, was that already revealed in an earlier season and just went over my head? Explains why the Markridge Group is called that anyway.

I'm thinking the dead man Jennifer drew from her visions will be Deacon. Very intrigued by the visions with the dead woman in the Witness mask too, she's bound to have significance somewhere down the line.

Niamh.

21-05-2017, 09:01 PM

Halfway through ep 6 and I had to go collect Gav from the pub. Will resume shortly [emoji14]

Lostie!

21-05-2017, 10:20 PM

Finished episode 7, ready for the last 3 eps tomorrow :cool:

Seems child Athan isn't so evil after all, I don't think Magdalena dying (RIP evil queen </3) will prevent him from becoming The Witness as we know him though. The surviving Guardian seems keen on allowing him to avoid that fate too but of course something will happen to push him down that path

So Jones' reaction to finding out about Cassandra keeping the secret is to have her held at gunpoint and try to have her killed when she runs. She has no chill sometimes!

Hannah :worry:

Loved Cassandra's scenes with her mother :love:

Also I'm glad Deacon asked about Jones' dog, I'd been wondering about him too :laugh:

Niamh.

21-05-2017, 11:20 PM

Finished ep 7, all in one day, best binge ever, I'm so sad I cant keep going. I love this show

Lostie!

21-05-2017, 11:33 PM

Finished ep 7, all in one day, best binge ever, I'm so sad I cant keep going. I love this show

:clap1: One of the most tragically overlooked shows ever.

Niamh.

21-05-2017, 11:46 PM

:clap1: One of the most tragically overlooked shows ever.
I know :( I'm hopeful it will get a cult following

Lostie!

21-05-2017, 11:53 PM

I know :( I'm hopeful it will get a cult following

I'm just glad it gets its due critically with seasons 2 and 3 being so highly acclaimed (which says a lot considering how skeptical people were at first). Deserves way more attention but those who do watch appreciate how good it is :clap2:

Lostie!

22-05-2017, 06:22 PM

Watched episode 8 earlier before work. So good :clap1: I actually really like Project Splinter being, erm, splintered (:wink:) into these two opposing factions. But Jones slapping Jennifer! I defended her when she ordered the massacre on Spearhead but THAT was too far.

But yeah, this whole storyline nicely sums up the brilliantly grey nature of morality and allegiances on this show, stories where sides can change and "good" characters start to act almost like villains themselves are so much more interesting than black and white "team a vs team b" sort of stories. And it works because they've already laid the groundwork ever since season 1 to show how ruthless Jones is willing to be for the sake of the mission, and because both sides have understandable motives (well, apart from Deacon who's literally just throwing a tantrum because of his own irrelevance). I think Hannah should have more reservations about suddenly hunting down her former allies though (and especially Jennifer being locked up) but they could always address that still.

I still don't really get the point of Deacon though, I've always found him to be a weak link in the show. He just doesn't interest me, never has.

Excited to see more of James Callis as The Witness in the last couple of episodes, I hope (and expect) him to have a good chunk of screentime.

Oh, and Cassie's attempt at pickpocketing was one of the funniest things I've ever seen :joker: :love:

Lostie!

23-05-2017, 01:11 PM

So I finished season 3 and

https://media.giphy.com/media/26ufdipQqU2lhNA4g/giphy.gif

So Olivia was The Witness all along wtf?!?! I never anticipated that in a million years. It's honestly perfect for me since she's been my favourite character ever since we met her so her being the true Big Bad of everything is just the best. I also have faith that they planned this along because it adds a brilliant layer of irony to her whole season 2 storyline when she felt abandoned by The Witness and turned against "him" now we know it was a future her the whole time. Also, I'd missed Olivia being the evil HBIC this season as it seemed like she was becoming an ally to Project Splinter (though I did really enjoy this new dynamic with her and these new interactions) so I loved the fact that it was all just a long con on her part.

Another reason I loved it was because, as much as I really did enjoy episode 9, I found it disappointing from a standpoint of it being The Witness' backstory. As an episode of TV it was great and I love the idea of someone going back in time over 600 times trying and failing to save their soulmate over and over, but for The Witness I just want them to be the evil, destructive force they've been built up as over the 3 seasons rather than a sympathetic figure when the mask comes off so I definitely prefer the idea of Olivia as The Witness over Athan.

Olivia killing The Pallid Man (k seriously we saw him as a kid this season and we still haven't got a name?) must have been cathartic when you think about that scene in season 2 when she's just been paralysed and he comes over and literally kicks her when she's down. :love:

Also loved the final scene with the mention of Cole's mother. She's clearly going to finally be important in the final season which I'm so excited about, they planted the seeds about her involvement in the story back in the first season so I can't wait to finally find out what went on with her. I assume the implication currently is that she's Primary.

Niamh.

23-05-2017, 01:12 PM

Oh no, i went to click that so badly :laugh: I don't know when I'll get the TV to myself again :bawling:

Lostie!

23-05-2017, 01:50 PM

How far did you get?

I want to go back and rewatch seasons 1 and 2 now.

Niamh.

23-05-2017, 01:53 PM

Up to episode 7, if the other 3 had been out at the time I would have got the whole Season done in one night :laugh:

Niamh.

26-05-2017, 12:53 PM

One episode to go, so good, can't believe we'll have to wait a whole year though for the conclusion :bawling:

Lostie!

26-05-2017, 01:10 PM

I know :( This is why I hoped to not speed through the season too quickly but I couldn't help myself :laugh:

Niamh.

26-05-2017, 01:13 PM

I wonder what was special about Elisa as well, why she was the only one whose death Ethan couldn't see? I wonder if they will explain that or not :think:

Lostie!

26-05-2017, 01:20 PM

Did you love Olivia as Jennifer in the 80s episode? :flutter:

Niamh.

26-05-2017, 01:24 PM

Did you love Olivia as Jennifer in the 80s episode? :flutter:

Yes! I love the tone of this show, they get everything so right, it's serious when it needs to be but the humour is fantastic aswell.

Lostie!

26-05-2017, 01:34 PM

Yes! I love the tone of this show, they get everything so right, it's serious when it needs to be but the humour is fantastic aswell.

Completely agree, the balance is spot on :love:

Something I didn't catch but in the episode where Cassandra sees her mother, she was called Kathryn, which was the name of Cassie's counterpart in the movie :flutter:

I love that they're doing their own story but with all these little references to the movie.

Niamh.

29-05-2017, 09:56 AM

Lostie!

29-05-2017, 10:20 AM

Finished the Season :(

I just noticed how you spelled "Athan" why was I thinking his name was Ethan all along hhhmmm, is it pronounced Ethan or do i have hearing problems? :laugh:

Never saw that Olivia twist coming :o Well, I guessed she may not be being upfront with the splinter team because of Jennifer, Jennifer is always correct on these things, they really don't listen to her enough but I didn't guess that she was the Witness all along

But ugh I didn't want Athan to die, also is Jones dead or did they save her?

Looking online, quite a few people thought he was called Ethan, easy mistake to be fair :laugh:

I'm so intrigued to see how Olivia becomes The Witness we know. Like, in season 2 she possessed Cassie, obviously current Olivia doesn't have the ability to do that.

I think Jones is still alive, just seriously wounded. And while I guess Athan definitely is dead, I think we'll still see him next season thanks to time travel.

Niamh.

29-05-2017, 10:28 AM

Looking online, quite a few people thought he was called Ethan, easy mistake to be fair :laugh:

I'm so intrigued to see how Olivia becomes The Witness we know. Like, in season 2 she possessed Cassie, obviously current Olivia doesn't have the ability to do that.

I think Jones is still alive, just seriously wounded. And while I guess Athan definitely is dead, I think we'll still see him next season thanks to time travel.

I'm really curious how this is all going to end, I'm thinking that they will succeed and time will reset and they all will never even know eachother :'(

also a thought

Jennifer never ends up being Coles mother, does she? hhmmm it's probably Madeline Stowes character but it was just a thought I had

Lostie!

29-05-2017, 11:24 AM

I'm really curious how this is all going to end, I'm thinking that they will succeed and time will reset and they all will never even know eachother :'(

also a thought

Jennifer never ends up being Coles mother, does she? hhmmm it's probably Madeline Stowes character but it was just a thought I had

It would be weird if Jennifer found out the guy she's been crushing on was her grown up time traveling son from the future :worry:

I really hope Madeleine Stowe comes back for the final season. I do have doubts about Lillian being Cole's mother though (I originally thought about her being Jennifer's mother too). She was a grown woman in 1959 and Cole would have been born around 50 years after that, but this is a show about time travel and then there are those like Olivia and Pallid Man who age slower than everyone else so I'm not discounting it entirely. Lillian could have been another of the children created from the DNA of Mantis (the female Messenger mother of Olivia and Pallid Man) which would be interesting since it would make Cole's two worst enemies his own aunt and uncle (I know Lillian was locked up for killing her parents and siblings and obviously she didn't kill Mantis, Olivia and Pallid but she could have been adopted). Okay I'm pretty certain none of that is happening but it's just really fun to speculate, as you said this type of show is perfect for that :laugh:

I'd love Olivia to be Cole's mother but I can't see how that would work since his mother was apparently on the run from the 12 Monkeys whereas Olivia was a high ranking member, I'd just love the inversion of what we thought to be true (Cole thinks The Witness is his child and it's actually his parent). UNLESS it is Olivia, not present Olivia but Future Olivia after she's fully become The Witness and conceives Cole to ensure the cycle plays out as it should and her past self follows the path she needs to in order to become The Witness.

http://c1.thejournal.ie/media/2013/06/maths-equation-one-million-dollars-390x285.jpg

(I'm not using tags now you're caught up since we're the only 2 on here who appreciate this wonderful show :ninja2:)

Niamh.

29-05-2017, 11:31 AM

Was reading an article about the finale and I love these questions, especially the last one GOD DAMN IT!!!

Some questions I still have after watching the finale that I expect will be answered in Season 4: What's the deal with Cole's mysterious mom? Will Cole master the red tea and save the world through his time tripping? Is Virus Meat Man Cole? When is the Cole who saved Cole in "Mother" from? He seemed more evolved than the Coles we know so far. And when will everyone finally just listen to Jennifer?

http://ie.ign.com/articles/2017/05/22/12-monkeys-witness-review

Niamh.

29-05-2017, 11:31 AM

I'd forgotten about "virus meat man"

Niamh.

29-05-2017, 11:35 AM

Also from that article :

Could saving Olivia from herself be the key? The killing people gambit never seems to pay off.

Rescuing a young Olivia from her box maybe?

Lostie!

29-05-2017, 11:41 AM

I'd forgotten about "virus meat man"

I have always subscribed to the theory that it's Cole. Jennifer once said "there's something about its eyes" and she always called Cole "otter eyes".

Also from that article :

Could saving Olivia from herself be the key? The killing people gambit never seems to pay off.

Rescuing a young Olivia from her box maybe?

Oh that's interesting. They did make a point this season of having Olivia call them out for leaving her there as a child.

Lostie!

29-05-2017, 11:48 AM

Also you should check out this webisode they put out before season 2 (so way before the Olivia reveal). Huge foreshadowing at the end.

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x45s5ho

Niamh.

31-05-2017, 03:03 PM

I'm glad I didn't watch it before Season 3 started.......although I probably wouldn't have clicked on to that anyway :laugh:

Lostie!

31-05-2017, 03:08 PM

Niamh.

31-05-2017, 03:12 PM

I saw that prior to season 3 and I never thought of it as a hint about anything tbh so the twist still came completely out of the blue. I like to think it was an intentional clue though since I want to believe it was always planned :laugh:

Oh I'd say it is, i'm not sure they could do it any other way with all the details that need to fit together

Lostie!

31-05-2017, 03:28 PM

Oh I'd say it is, i'm not sure they could do it any other way with all the details that need to fit together

Yeah, a lot of shows don't bother with the pre-planning but I really think 12 Monkeys has. I only wondered because, when it was apparently revealed that it was Cole and Cassie's child, you could look back at so many clues that had been there all along so I wondered if that was their original plan and then they decided to change it after season 2.

But that was probably all by design, since it made so much sense nobody bothered to doubt it, so the real reveal came as an even bigger surprise :clap1:

Niamh.

31-05-2017, 03:31 PM

Yeah why else would they need to protect Cole and Cassie so much at the start and not kill them when they had chances to?

Lostie!

31-05-2017, 03:43 PM

Yeah why else would they need to protect Cole and Cassie so much at the start and not kill them when they had chances to?

I assume Future Olivia knew she needed them to play out their roles in the cycle, her past self apparently being abandoned by The Witness and eventually going to Titan to kill "him" was what led to her becoming The Witness in the first place. So basically there needed to be that red herring for her past self to go after, which she knew because she'd already done it ... if that makes sense? :laugh:

I'm sure it will all be much clearer next season since we'll presumably see Olivia truly become The Witness and see her doing the things we've seen The Witness doing over the first few seasons.

Lostie!

31-05-2017, 03:48 PM

Also her possessing Cassie in season 2 resulted in her past self meeting Sam which played a big role in her manipulating the team and carrying out her coup of Titan in season 3. In a nutshell, Witness Olivia knew that Cole and Cassie had events they needed to be a part of that all made up her own path in becoming who she did ... and she'd already experienced it all in the past so she knew what needed to happen.

Niamh.

31-05-2017, 03:48 PM

I assume Future Olivia knew she needed them to play out their roles in the cycle, her past self apparently being abandoned by The Witness and eventually going to Titan to kill "him" was what led to her becoming The Witness in the first place. So basically there needed to be that red herring for her past self to go after, which she knew because she'd already done it ... if that makes sense? :laugh:

I'm sure it will all be much clearer next season since we'll presumably see Olivia truly become The Witness and see her doing the things we've seen The Witness doing over the first few seasons.

Oh no I know that :laugh: I mean that's why i think it was, planned from the start and not just making it up as they go along

Lostie!

31-05-2017, 03:49 PM

Oh no I know that :laugh: I mean that's why i think it was, planned from the start and not just making it up as they go along

Ohh I thought you meant why would they be protected if Athan wasn't The Witness :laugh:

Lostie!

31-05-2017, 09:05 PM

So somebody did a version of the original movie poster with the TV cast and it's ridiculously good

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/M/MV5BN2Y2OWU4MWMtNmIyMy00YzMyLWI0Y2ItMTcyZDc3MTdmZD U4XkEyXkFqcGdeQXVyMTQxNzMzNDI@._V1_UX182_CR0,0,182 ,268_AL_.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/HQtHa4F.jpg

Niamh.

01-06-2017, 08:55 AM

Oh I love that

Northern Monkey

08-06-2017, 01:05 AM

Niamh.

08-06-2017, 09:18 AM

lol NM, it wasn't revealed but could be Madeline Stowes character maybe, usually people are in it for a reason or a connection and they've not said much about her and she's a primary so it would make sense

Lostie!

08-06-2017, 11:38 AM

Just finished season 3 ep 10.

Amazing but so glad i just read the last two pages as i'm crap at following these complicated stories.I tend to get distracted and then sometimes wonder wtf is going on.
Reading this confirmed that i pretty much understood everything.

Also i'm glad nobody knows who Coles mum is because I thought i was a total dumbass and had missed a big chunk of the story.:laugh:

Yeah they haven't revealed much about his mother yet, just those couple of mentions in season 1 of her running from the 12 Monkeys and in season 3 of her writing the serpent story.

I'm really excited to see who she is and how she ties into everything, have been since season 1 (and I love how they planted that seed in the first season to revisit it in the last one).

Lostie!

21-06-2017, 07:31 PM

Series finale title revealed https://www.instagram.com/p/BVk5QUEFr1M/

So the premiere is called "The End" and the finale is called "The Beginning", I love that and how it ties into that "begins at the end and ends at the beginning" quote from season 2 :clap1:

Lostie!

30-06-2017, 12:38 AM

A season 4 return I'm very happy about

Christopher Lloyd is back :clap1:
870862798078607360

His appearance last season was so brief so I'm glad we're getting more of him (and since he basically founded the Army of the 12 Monkeys I feel like that story still has to be fully told). Also I remember prior to season 3 seeing a season 4 production shot of his wife (Olivia's mother/daughter, lmao that will always sound weird) so it makes sense that they're both back, she's been another of my favourite characters since the second season.

And Witness Olivia :love:

Lostie!

16-07-2017, 03:53 PM

Conleth Hill (Varys) is joining season 4 :amazed: He's my favourite from Game of Thrones.

Only for a two-episode stint apparently but still exciting casting.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/07/14/12-monkeys-game-thrones-conleth-hill/

Lostie!

21-07-2017, 11:41 AM

New season 4 trailer from Comic Con :amazed:

EbkBT57MNok

Looks so good as usual :flutter: Olivia snapping Hannah's neck :omgno:

Niamh.

21-07-2017, 11:45 AM

2018 seems like a longtime away :(

Lostie!

21-07-2017, 11:55 AM

I know :( But on the other hand, I'm also sort of dreading season 4 arriving because then it will soon be over forever </3

Lostie!

21-07-2017, 11:56 AM

I love that they're ending it when they planned to and telling the story as they always intended but I still want more :laugh:

Niamh.

21-07-2017, 11:58 AM

Yeah same here, but it's the right choice

Lostie!

21-07-2017, 12:15 PM

Yeah definitely.

Did you ever notice the same kid plays Cole and Athan as children? That's a nice touch.

Niamh.

21-07-2017, 12:39 PM

Yeah definitely.

Did you ever notice the same kid plays Cole and Athan as children? That's a nice touch.

oh no i didn't actually

Lostie!

21-07-2017, 12:48 PM

I realised a great bit of foreshadowing about the Witness reveal back in season 2 recently, in the episode where Olivia kidnaps Cassandra again to drug her, Cassandra gives her back chat so Olivia slaps her and says "You're important to him, not to me" ("him" meaning the Witness), which really stands out now we know what we do.

This show will have great rewatch value for little things like that :flutter:

Niamh.

21-07-2017, 12:53 PM

Yeah that's true, I always like rewatching twisty films like the 6th sense again to spot clues I wasn't looking for first time round, it's like watching a different film

Lostie!

21-07-2017, 02:08 PM

This shot of the Witness from season 4 is interesting

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFOfPAPXsAAU8Lk.jpg

One of the tubes on her outfit seems to be leading off-screen to something. I've always wondered about the tubes etc that the Witness wears so I'm assuming something happens to Olivia physically that makes her require them? Also any scenes of Olivia in Witness form have her very pale with dark marks under her eyes (and that brief shot of her unmasking herself to her past self in the season 3 finale had part of her face slightly glowing red). And the splinter vest than Athan wore didn't have all those tubes on, so I do hope her appearance has relevance beyond looking intimidating.

Also, is she in the Project Splinter facility there?

Niamh.

21-07-2017, 02:22 PM

hard to tell where she is Lostie. I wonder what them tubes are for though? You would think maybe it's something medical alright though :think:

Lostie!

21-07-2017, 02:35 PM

I reckon she is at Project Splinter because that's where she ordered Titan to travel at the end of season 3 and the light reminds me of

https://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/12-monkeys-tv/images/0/0c/Project_Splinter.jpg/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/350?cb=20150407004717

Maybe the tubes physically connect her to time or something like that :think:

Those robed women are creepy too :laugh:

Lostie!

05-08-2017, 10:51 PM

From a picture Terry Matalas posted on Twitter it looks like Donald Sumpter (Luwin in GoT, Rassilon in Doctor Who) will be in season 4. Brilliant actor :clap1: (and the third Game of Thrones star on the show :laugh:)

Lostie!

24-03-2018, 07:32 PM

Season 4 poster

https://i.imgur.com/GOErbT4.jpg

"Sacrifice the past" :think: I'm hoping for (and expecting) a bittersweet ending.

Niamh.

24-03-2018, 07:59 PM

Lostie!

24-03-2018, 08:47 PM

Oh I'm so excited for this, when is it airing? I think that teaser probably means

they'll fix things so it'll go back to where it started and none of them will ever know each other (maybe Jennifer will be the only one to remember everything)

I'm always wrong though [emoji23]

Yeah, succeeding in preventing the plague should mean Cassie and Cole (and the rest of the team) never met each other (but if this happens I think they could still remember each other like Cassie and Cole remembered the undone timeline where they conceived Athan, I'll have to rewatch but didn't them the injections Jones gives time travelers mean they remember timeline changes?)

If Olivia ends up being Cole's mother, it could end with him never being born as a result of intervening when she's a child to stop her becoming The Witness (but I don't think she is, I'd just love it if she was :laugh:)

All we know about the airdate atm is sometime in the summer.

Lostie!

06-05-2018, 06:58 PM

992472737066115074

Hopefully an airdate soon!

Lostie!

08-05-2018, 09:09 AM

Season 4 premieres on June 15th and will air over 4 weeks, 3 episodes each Friday for 3 weeks before the two-part season finale on July 6th.

Starts sooner than I expected and I had no idea the final episode was double length :amazed:

New teaser (very short but the full trailer shouldn't be far off now)

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Official release

Originally envisioned as a four-part story, in Season 4 James Cole and Dr. Cassandra Railly set out on an epic quest, traveling further back in time than they have ever been before. According to legend, their only hope lies with a weapon capable of stopping the Witness for good. But they’ll soon discover that in order to win the final battle and save time itself, they will have to make the ultimate sacrifice.

Niamh.

08-05-2018, 09:21 AM

Oh My God, I'm so excited for this :amazed:

Lostie!

08-05-2018, 09:34 AM

Oh My God, I'm so excited for this :amazed:

So am I :flutter: As much as I enjoyed the binge event last year, I'm glad the episodes are being spread out more this time. I was hoping it would be one a week to make the final run last as long as possible but I do like the sound of how they're doing it.

When you have the chance could you please change the thread title to 12 Monkeys | Final season in June? Even though only we watch, I still like it to be up to date :ninja2:

Niamh.

08-05-2018, 09:45 AM

I don't get why more people aren't hooked on this , it's so good

Lostie!

08-05-2018, 09:47 AM

I know, it has to be one of the most criminally underrated shows of all time. Definitely deserves a much bigger audience. I'm just glad it wasn't cancelled because of the relatively small audience and the story has been allowed to play out to the end.

And thanks for the title update!

Niamh.

08-05-2018, 09:56 AM

Lostie!

08-05-2018, 10:24 AM

No worries.

I think it'll be one people will start watching after its finished and it will become a cult classic :hee: And we'll be there like proper hipsters saying we loved it before it was popular

:joker:

I want to go to a Halloween party as The Witness and have everyone wondering what the hell I am

Niamh.

08-05-2018, 10:25 AM

:joker:

I want to go to a Halloween party as The Witness and have everyone wondering what the hell I am

Yeah no one will have a clue tbf :laugh:

Lostie!

08-05-2018, 03:44 PM

Yeah no one will have a clue tbf :laugh:

History buffs might recognise the Plague Doctor look which is what The Witness mask is based on (and it would just be a Plague Doctor costume since you can actually get them and I wouldn't have the time or talent to add the tubes and lights on the chest :laugh:)

Such a great character design though, one of my absolute favourites. Imagine being ill during the Black Death and having a doctor who looked like that hovering over you :joker: I'd die of fright first

Niamh.

08-05-2018, 03:47 PM

History buffs might recognise the Plague Doctor look which is what The Witness mask is based on (and it would just be a Plague Doctor costume since you can actually get them and I wouldn't have the time or talent to add the tubes and lights on the chest :laugh:)

Such a great character design though, one of my absolute favourites. Imagine being ill during the Black Death and having a doctor who looked like that hovering over you :joker: I'd die of fright first

I know, creepy af, it looks like a vulture ..which is not what you want to see when you're that sick :worry:

Lostie!

09-05-2018, 04:27 PM

Do you reckon the corpse that was the origin of the virus will turn out to be someone we know? I've always thought Cole, but then I also thought he was The Witness and that was wrong :laugh:

Ashley.

09-05-2018, 05:02 PM

I intend on watching this at some point

Lostie!

12-05-2018, 01:27 PM

Another little teaser!

H7G5AM13hn4

Lostie!

13-05-2018, 12:13 PM

And another (this one promising all the answers :clap1:)

bRpZKB70neo

Lostie!

14-05-2018, 02:11 PM

ANOTHER (we're being spoiled :flutter:)

KRa8jYp9qwE

Since it starts exactly a month tomorrow I wonder if we'll be getting the full trailer in the coming week or so.

Niamh.

14-05-2018, 04:55 PM

Do you reckon the corpse that was the origin of the virus will turn out to be someone we know? I've always thought Cole, but then I also thought he was The Witness and that was wrong [emoji23]Yeah I think it'll be Cole, wasn't there a comment about the eyes?

Lostie!

14-05-2018, 05:06 PM

Yeah I think it'll be Cole, wasn't there a comment about the eyes?

Yeah, Jennifer said "there's something about its eyes" and she's always calling him Otter Eyes :think:

Also Cole got a headache near it which was presumed to be because he was dying from the effects of splintering at the time but it could have been because of the paradox and they had him be ill at that time to disguise the reason for the headache

http://www.calbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/tin-foil-hat-conspiracy-theory1.jpg

Lostie!

14-05-2018, 05:49 PM

New poster for the final season

https://i.imgur.com/1T2JV4c.jpg

Adore it. The red leaves on the chair, CHILLS :flutter:

Niamh.

14-05-2018, 06:43 PM

Yeah, Jennifer said "there's something about its eyes" and she's always calling him Otter Eyes :think:

Also Cole got a headache near it which was presumed to be because he was dying from the effects of splintering at the time but it could have been because of the paradox and they had him be ill at that time to disguise the reason for the headache

http://www.calbuzz.com/wp-content/uploads/tin-foil-hat-conspiracy-theory1.jpgOh I had forgotten about the headache, could be red herrings aswell though

Lostie!

14-05-2018, 08:42 PM

Oh I had forgotten about the headache, could be red herrings aswell though

I'm gonna have a full rewatch over the next month to fully refresh myself on anything that's slipped my mind :laugh: and to see things in a new perspective now we really know who The Witness is

Lostie!

18-05-2018, 05:25 PM

997484134552428545

:flutter:

I love all the promo we're getting :clap1:

Lostie!

22-05-2018, 06:51 PM

Members of the press who've received advance screeners of the first five (I think) episodes have been tweeting about how good it is :clap1:

Niamh.

22-05-2018, 07:17 PM

So excited [emoji322]

Lostie!

28-05-2018, 07:46 PM

Another little teaser (I'm appreciating them but surely it's time for the full trailer dammit!!!)

1001161187122294786

Olivia is perfection. I actually want her to win?

Lostie!

02-06-2018, 06:30 PM

Final trailer! It's actually a modified version of a trailer released last year with added scenes replacing a few scattered season 3 scenes (the whole final season wasn't filmed at that point). I was looking forward to a whole new trailer but I can't complain since we've had loads of teasers and it is a brilliant trailer. I love the voiceover of the main characters reciting Cole's mother's poem.

1002238783117512704

I'm really looking forward to getting more insight into the meaning of the poem. My guesses are

Serpent = Time
Demon = Olivia
Seers = Primaries
Weapon = Cole? Time travel? The virus? This is the toughest one :laugh:

Lostie!

05-06-2018, 02:21 PM

Final season review from Forbes (I think screeners of the first 5 episodes were sent out) https://www.forbes.com/sites/merrillbarr/2018/06/05/12-monkeys-season-4-review-syfy-terry-matalas-travis-fickett-david-peoples-janet-peoples-terry-gilliam-aaron-stanford-amanda-schull-kirk-acevedo-noah-bean-todd-stashwick-emily-hampshire-barbara-sukowa/#5abc20de1f07

Coming into its final season, Syfy’s 12 Monkeys has its work cut out for it. It has to do the impossible and give closure to a time travel story that makes sense. Thankfully, a few episodes into the final season and many will be saying, “I think they’re going to pull this off.”

From the word go, the final season of 12 Monkeys pulls no punches. In fact, it raises the bar on “going there” television. Everything matters and by the end of the season premiere audiences are going to find their jaws on the floor.

The action is on point. The drama is hard-hitting. The twists are insane. The final season of 12 Monkeys is putting the pedal to the metal and firing on all cylinders.

I'm ready.

Lostie!

08-06-2018, 09:56 PM

1005164205723541505

Nearly time

https://i.imgur.com/Bs5OURN.gif

Niamh.

12-06-2018, 07:20 PM

I wish it was out Thursday instead because I have a free tv Friday night

Lostie!

12-06-2018, 07:49 PM

I'm glad it's Friday because I now no longer work Saturdays so that can be Monkey Day for the next few weeks :cool:

Niamh.

12-06-2018, 08:45 PM

No chance of getting a stream Friday night I suppose? [emoji24]

Lostie!

13-06-2018, 02:55 PM

No chance of getting a stream Friday night I suppose? [emoji24]

I don't often stream shows live so I'd be pretty clueless in finding a good one :laugh: Though I suppose a search for a live Syfy stream on Friday night might turn something up for you.

Oh did you hear Todd Stashwick (Deacon) is co-writing Suicide Squad 2? How random :joker:

Niamh.

13-06-2018, 03:03 PM

I don't often stream shows live so I'd be pretty clueless in finding a good one :laugh: Though I suppose a search for a live Syfy stream on Friday night might turn something up for you.

Oh did you hear Todd Stashwick (Deacon) is co-writing Suicide Squad 2? How random :joker:

Oh no actually it will probably be on too late anyway because of the time difference

Lostie!

13-06-2018, 03:16 PM

And it's 3 episodes so you'd be dead to the world throughout Saturday :laugh:

Niamh.

13-06-2018, 03:26 PM

Yeah :( What a shame though, Gav doesn't watch it and he's out on Friday night so I could have a great night with myself, the monkeys and a bottle of wine

Lostie!

13-06-2018, 09:52 PM

1007005199976656896

Every new teaser gets me more and more ready :flutter:

I somehow forgot about Varys being in this season. An extra thing to be excited for!

Lostie!

15-06-2018, 08:40 PM

http://nerdnewsfactory.com/12-monkeys-final-season-preview-round-and-round/

While I won’t go into any details about the final season so that you can experience this incredible journey, be prepared for everything, and I mean everything to be answered. Where shows such as Lost left you with more questions than answers at the end, showrunner Terry Matalas and the writers seem to have prepared themselves for these final episodes, and are ready to neatly tie everything together nicely. In fact in the first few episodes of the season, several burning questions will be answered and some moments will have you shaking your head in disbelief as you realize exactly what geniuses the entire team that worked on the show are.

And that's just for the first 5 episodes :flutter:

All the acclaim I'm seeing for the first half of the season has me fully confident that the show's getting a brilliant ending (I can't imagine it going off the rails in the home stretch).

Niamh.

19-06-2018, 09:44 AM

Lostie!

19-06-2018, 08:12 PM

Right all 3 watched now

Soooooooo, ok all the way through I was thinking Olivia is Coles mother :o but then I read your deleted post Lostie and realised that Cole was born way later, I forgot about that :laugh: Olivia is his grandmother then you reckon? Interesting that would make a lot of sense.

My absolute favourite scene was Jennifer stealing the snake puzzle, that was absolutely hilarious

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/QuickYoungAkitainu-max-1mb.gif

Yeah I posted my thoughts after watching on Saturday but I figured I'd rather wait for you to watch so I can actually talk about it with someone :laugh: But yeah I loved the first 3 episodes, the third especially which was ridiculously good!

Yeah I was certain they were leading up to Olivia being Cole's mother (it was my theory after season 3 with no evidence just because I loved the idea but this episode actually made it seem likely, other than the child's birth date :laugh: (and yeah it's a time travel show but I still don't really see the baby being Cole now) So yeah now I'm thinking his mother might be Olivia's child. The concept of The Witness being Cole's grandmother all along though :laugh:

Imaginary Jennifer was great, loved how her 'death' was similar to older Jennifer's death :laugh: Varys with hair in a modern suit, trippy. And I had no idea Julian Richings had joined the cast (Olivia's new henchman). He was brilliant as Death in Supernatural and he's very much channeling that same sinister aura here :clap1:

How good was it finally seeing the creation of The Witness?? :flutter: I was right about her connecting herself to the time stream itself. Assuming that's what ends up making her face go all weird and red in the future. And I'm glad the outfit has an actual purpose beyond looking cool / scary, I always figured the tubes on the chest were a life support unit of some sort but I like that the mask is for that too.

Did you notice how the scene of Olivia's mother brushing her hair was identical to the scene of Olivia brushing Jennifer's hair in season 1? Right down to the mirror placement. I love little touches like that. It was even more striking because I thought young Olivia really resembled Jennifer.

Niamh.

20-06-2018, 01:53 PM

I'm more confused now than ever tbh about how all this will end although I'm still thinking they may go back and save Olivia as a child :think:

Lostie!

20-06-2018, 02:14 PM

I'm more confused now than ever tbh about how all this will end although I'm still thinking they may go back and save Olivia as a child :think:

That would result in her never having her child, and if it is indeed Cole's mother, he in turn would never be born. And I can definitely see this when you take into account that scene of future Cole and Cassie from the season 3 premiere where she's saying something like "this isn't the only way". Definitely looks like the endgame will involve a big sacrifice on Cole's part.

Imagine the show ending with the main villain having a happy ending and the main hero being erased from existence though :shocked: And wouldn't Cassie and the others still remember everything because of the splinter injections?

But then Athan was still born despite his conception being undone so maybe his father will follow suit :think:

I love all the possibilities with shows like this :flutter:

Niamh.

20-06-2018, 02:20 PM

that post is really head exploding :laugh: but I do like the idea that they would win by saving the target rather than originally aiming to kill their target, i do have a feeling Cole will vanish though, i don't think it will be a proper "happy" ending

Lostie!

20-06-2018, 02:31 PM

Yeah a proper happy ending won't feel right, I'd be disappointed. They'll beat Olivia but at a big cost, I've always said I see this having a really bittersweet ending. And there can be no Cole and Cassie if they do win.

And about your point of them saving rather than killing, remember when Cole saved Ramse and said saving somebody who was supposed to die was the only thing that ever made a difference? And then there was the time they were stuck in a time loop when Cassie was trying to kill Jones and only got out of it when they saved Hannah. So yeah, I'm on board with the idea that saving Olivia is how they end this.

We still have the corpse with the virus origin to factor in to all this as well :think:

Niamh.

20-06-2018, 02:37 PM

Lostie!

20-06-2018, 02:43 PM

Yeah great points lostie, god I so need a rewatch of the whole thing once it ends. That was one of my favourite episodes actually, the time loop one. I love TV shows/films that are Ground Hog Day esque.

"We still have the corpse with the virus origin to factor in to all this as well"

Yeah, I literally have no theories at all on how that comes about tbh

One theory about it I've seen is that the show is just one big unbreakable cycle and will end with Cole becoming the source of the virus and nothing being stopped. Which would be a really depressing (but ballsy) way to end it :laugh: Cole as the origin has always been my theory but I just can't see the show ending in complete failure for Team Splinter.

Niamh.

20-06-2018, 02:48 PM

Oh I would hate that :skull:

Niamh.

20-06-2018, 02:49 PM

but it does seem like that corpse is his from the little hints

Lostie!

20-06-2018, 04:58 PM

I think him or Olivia but more likely him.

The revelation that Olivia's mother lost faith in The Witness was interesting, didn't expect that. I remember when Olivia had her own crisis of faith she visited her mother's grave and said "You told me The Witness would always be there for me", she's probably referring to the years of being raised by her but it would be cool if she told her that while on her death bed since by that point she knows The Witness is Olivia's future self after witnessing her possession :laugh:

Seeing how she died tied up something that was always a loose end for me too. It always seemed like she just died of old age which didn't make sense considering The Messengers were created to age slower and be resistant to illness and there was no implication she'd lived for ages and then travelled back to the 70s before dying, so having Cassie accidentally shoot her works

Niamh.

20-06-2018, 06:20 PM

Oh I was just thinking that the clue we got from Jennifer about the eyes could also fit Olivia actually if she were his grandmother, maybe they have the same eyes hhhmm or his mother

Lostie!

20-06-2018, 06:24 PM

Oh I was just thinking that the clue we got from Jennifer about the eyes could also fit Olivia actually if she were his grandmother, maybe they have the same eyes hhhmm or his mother

Hmm good thinking!

There's also a Deacon = Olivia's son theory going round too :shocked:

Niamh.

20-06-2018, 06:30 PM

Hmm good thinking!

There's also a Deacon = Olivia's son theory going round too :shocked:Oh that's a new one, how would that be right though?

Lostie!

20-06-2018, 06:40 PM

Oh that's a new one, how would that be right though?

I think because of how irrelevant Deacon seems in the grand scheme of things (which he pointed out himself last season) and Olivia telling him he's wasted on Team Splinter but not her, and then the last episode introducing Olivia's child and also bringing Deacon into Olivia's team, some people are thinking this is how he ends up serving a purpose and as her child he'll be an important part of the end of the story. And her telling him he's hard to kill, which describes her genes perfectly.

I dunno though, as shocking as it would be I'd be a bit disappointed just because I've never cared for Deacon :laugh:

Since I've been wanting Olivia to be Cole's mother, the next best thing is having her child be his mother and it would work in the timeline too so I'm hoping for that.

Niamh.

20-06-2018, 06:47 PM

Hhhmm yeah it seems like maybe he is relevant in some way alright now you put it like that

Lostie!

20-06-2018, 06:58 PM

Oh I forgot to say I loved the whole thing with Cole and Jones stealing a power core for the machine from their past selves and that being the reason they needed Spearhead's core back in season 1 in the first place :laugh: And the conversation between the two Joneses being foreshadowed last season, Jones mentioned having a drunken hallucination that helped her solve some early time travel issues and that was this meeting with her future self all along.

And the scene where future Cassie on the TV looked directly at the screen to talk to her past self because she knew she was watching because she'd already watched it and received the advice from herself. *suddenly needs to take a couple paracetamol tablets*

Niamh.

20-06-2018, 07:32 PM

Yeah that's why I need to rewatch again when it ends [emoji16]

Lostie!

20-06-2018, 07:39 PM

Yeah I'm definitely having a full rewatch when it's over, if only to dull the pain :bawling:

Still need to watch the movie too

Niamh.

20-06-2018, 07:54 PM

I'm holding off rewatching the movie aswell until after the show finishes, it was years ago when I saw it so I can't remember it too well. We should plan a rewatch and discussion on that too [emoji16]

Lostie!

20-06-2018, 08:33 PM

Lostie!

20-06-2018, 08:35 PM

I found the song that Jennifer plays to distract Olivia in season 2 and it'll forever be the Jennifer Goines anthem for me now (along with 99 Red Balloons of course)

e4tkLy9AaD4

Niamh.

20-06-2018, 09:08 PM

It's a date

http://i0.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/001/199/984/6ef.gif:love:

Lostie!

21-06-2018, 10:04 AM

I'm looking forward to more medieval scenes, I loved that opening (Donald Sumpter, another great guest star :clap1:). That figure in the armor version of the Witness Mask is creepy, wonder if that's Olivia (assuming so).

Niamh.

25-06-2018, 09:05 PM

Just finished episode 6

is it just me or was ep 6 really Quentin Tarantino esque? A bit of Pulp Fiction mixed with Reservoir Dogs with a hint of Inglorious Bastards? [emoji23] Jennifer singing? :worship:

Lostie!

25-06-2018, 09:36 PM

Jennifer singing U + Ur Hand to Hitler and the Nazis whilst Cassie and Cole take out more Nazis with her in a kinky outfit for distraction is one of the best sequences this show has done :joker:

Elliot Jones was great, never expected him to be so heavily involved beyond him creating the splinter machine and being Jones' ex husband. And his assistant Emma being Olivia's daughter :shocked:

I saw a theory that Marion Woods might actually be a place that Cole's mother used for an alias. Remember when I pointed out how the surname Woods could relate to Olivia leaving her baby under a tree? Emma's my top prediction for Cole's mother anyway. BLOODY BOOKMARK ME!!

LOVED how everything in the 1960s episode was a big loop they created themselves :joker: Great to see Christopher Lloyd, the Tall Man and Gale again too.

Lostie!

25-06-2018, 09:39 PM

Oh and there were snowy mountains behind Titan in the last scene. The virus origin corpse was found in the Himalayas! :think:

Niamh.

25-06-2018, 09:56 PM

Maybe Jones is the origin corpse now Olivia has her [emoji43]

Lostie!

25-06-2018, 10:00 PM

I thought that. Being the origin of the virus she perfected time travel to prevent would fit with this show's love of cycles and loops :worry:

Lostie!

25-06-2018, 10:13 PM

How creepy was Olivia when she found Jennifer and the medieval primaries? It's fitting the poem calls her a demon because she was going full Exorcist.

(and I've only just realised that her possessing people fits with the description of demon too :laugh:)

Niamh.

26-06-2018, 09:09 AM

Yeah, I'm kind of changing my mind again on how I think it will end, I'm not sure they will actually go back and save child Olivia now at all hhhmm

Lostie!

26-06-2018, 03:27 PM

"I know what you guys are doing in there. Be careful this time, butt stuff only" :joker::joker:

That along with calling Hannah "Mad Maxine" and Olivia "Her Bitchness", Jennifer had some all time great lines in these episodes :laugh:

Niamh.

26-06-2018, 04:08 PM

Jennifer is by far the best character tbf

Lostie!

26-06-2018, 09:16 PM

Olivia's my favourite but Jennifer's great. Tbh the only characters over the show I've not been keen on are Deacon, Ramse and Aaron, everyone else I've enjoyed.

I keep forgetting Aaron existed, feels like a million years ago :laugh:

Niamh.

26-06-2018, 09:25 PM

Deacon is kind of growing on me this season

Lostie!

26-06-2018, 09:34 PM

I like him more than I did the first two seasons but I still just don't feel any real interest or investment in him. He's just there.

I forgot to mention the scene with Cassie apparently starting to come round to the idea of the Red Forest, really interesting. Tbh the idea of it is undoubtedly seductive, which is why I've always liked it as the motivation for the actions of the 12 Monkeys and I like that they're now having one of the good guys actually start to think about it in that light.

It also makes me think about the scene in season 1 when Cole travels to the day of Cassie's death and she asks him if he's found the Red Forest yet.

Niamh.

27-06-2018, 11:21 AM

Lostie!

27-06-2018, 12:37 PM

How do you remember that? :laugh: but yeah interesting turn of events indeed

My obsession with this show runs deep :cool:

(also I rewatched the first half of season 1 earlier this year)

Niamh.

27-06-2018, 01:18 PM

ah ok :laugh: I need a rewatch for definite afterwards, I like noticing all the clues of twisty things afterwards

Lostie!

27-06-2018, 01:25 PM

Definitely. That's why, although I'll miss the hell out of it, I'm glad it's ending when it was designed to. Shows that go on too long and spiral out of control lose rewatch value. Also, 4 seasons of no longer than 13 episodes is a good length complete story to rewatch without it being a chore.

Niamh.

27-06-2018, 01:27 PM

Yeah 100%, it means everything that happens from start to finish was all part of the storys plan and makes sense......unlike other shows cough*Lost*cough :idc:

Lostie!

27-06-2018, 01:38 PM

Yeah 100%, it means everything that happens from start to finish was all part of the storys plan and makes sense......unlike other shows cough*Lost*cough :idc:

I KNEW you were gonna mention Lost :joker:

I think various plot developments have come to the writers over time (like Olivia being The Witness) but I know that they've known the actual ending since the start. And even with The Witness, they knew for sure it was Olivia since the end of the second season, and apparently the idea was even mentioned during the first.

Niamh.

27-06-2018, 01:40 PM

I KNEW you were gonna mention Lost :joker:

I think various plot developments have come to the writers over time (like Olivia being The Witness) but I know that they've known the actual ending since the start. And even with The Witness, they knew for sure it was Olivia since the end of the second season, and apparently the idea was even mentioned during the first.

If the cap fits :hee:

Oh Olivia was a later idea? I wonder who (if anyone they were thinking about first then)

Lostie!

27-06-2018, 01:52 PM

If the cap fits :hee:

Oh Olivia was a later idea? I wonder who (if anyone they were thinking about first then)

I reckon they were keeping their options open rather than being set on any one particular option early on. Which honestly I don't mind in this case since everything regarding The Witness was always so vague and they planted seeds so that various characters would make sense had it been them and also since the Olivia reveal they've actually made effort to connect it to what we saw with The Witness in earlier seasons etc, even giving an answer for why The Witness wore the outfit we always saw.

My problem isn't necessarily shows not having absolutely everything planned in advance (I think a show that does would be rare tbh), but rather them not bothering to address things they'd set up earlier or do so in a rushed, unsatisfactory way.

The mystery surrounding Cole's mother is another. I personally doubt they knew back when she was mentioned in season 1 who she was and how she tied into the story, but now in the final season they're addressing that and weaving it into the story in a big way rather than forgetting about it or giving us a cop out "answer".

Niamh.

27-06-2018, 01:57 PM

Oh also, do you think that Madeline Stowes character and Olivias daughter are the same person?

Lostie!

27-06-2018, 02:00 PM

Hmm, I don't think so but I really want her to show up again before the end. She seemed important but I'm starting to think it was just a significant cameo for fans of the movie.

Doesn't Olivia's daughter have an English accent? I think she was faking the US accent while posing as Elliot Jones' assistant.

Speaking of, it was driving me mad where I recognised her from, she was in the second series of The Missing :laugh:

Niamh.

27-06-2018, 02:05 PM

I think she will, I'm sure she has a purpose especially since she was from the original film too

Lostie!

27-06-2018, 02:14 PM

I really hope so :fc: She'd be a great choice for Cole's mother, of course time travel shenanigans will need to be involved since she's locked up in the 1950s :laugh:

Now it's clearly not Olivia my top choices for her are Emma, Lillian (Madeleine's character) and Hannah (that sounds random but I've read theories and I'm on board)

Niamh.

27-06-2018, 02:25 PM

I still think it's possible Emma and Lillian are the same person and Lillian could easily be a time traveler especially if she is Emma, maybe her purpose was to go back there to get Cole and Cassie to move on, I don't know though, I'm so confused maybe she has no real purpose and they just wanted to give her a cameo :laugh:

Hannah being Coles mother? interesting

Lostie!

27-06-2018, 02:42 PM

I'd be here for it tbh. I just love how with this show, theories that would sound insane in any other show are legitimate possibilities :laugh:

(another flashback to when I thought Cassie and Jones were the same person and she used a fake accent in the future :ninja2:)

And yeah, I'm thinking Hannah would be a cool choice now. A theory points out something that went way over my head; in the first ep of season 3 Jones calls Hannah a "little ****", and in a later episode of the season Cole calls Athan the same thing. Then they pointed out that, also in the first episode of season 3, Hannah also called Cole "you little ****" when she's following him and he tricks her and has her splintered back. Interesting that they have her use that term in the same season that has two instances of parents using it towards their children.

Then there's "Lullaby" when they couldn't break the time loop before they saved young Hannah. Like time needed her to live for some reason. Also in season 1, younger Jones was going to have an abortion before she met Cole and Cassie. Two times time travel has resulted in Hannah living. :think: