Who is right here?The student or the professor

[Northern Monkey]

Should universities be a 'safe space' where people are sheltered from anything that may hurt their feelings?
69Pf_DmScck

[user104658]

["The Answer Might Surprise You!"]

I agree with the psychologist's middle ground stance. Include the warning in the prospectus material for the course along with an outline of topics that will be covered, to allow people to decide whether or not they are in the mindset to be able to take on the course in the first place, and then there should be no reason to micromanage it at a later date for every individual class or lecture. The warnings about the subjects that are likely to be covered are clear from the outset. A good compromise, surely.

[Kizzy]

You do realise there are 3 threads on this exact same topic now?

[Crimson Dynamo]

that wee lassie needs to get a job, get a mortgage, work in an office and then come back


she should be studying not flapping her lips about pretending she is a grown up

:idc:

[user104658]

You do realise there are 3 threads on this exact same topic now?
Three Threads on the Same Topic - You Won't Believe The Ways In Which They are Different!

[RichardG]

is this an exclusively american thing? i'm studying history at university and i haven't encountered one person who wants trigger warnings or safe spaces (thankfully).

[user104658]

is this an exclusively american thing? i'm studying history at university and i haven't encountered one person who wants trigger warnings or safe spaces (thankfully).
No one cares about poxy British news.

[Livia]

I wonder wheat kind of job these people are studying for? It's going to be a great big bloody shock when they discover life's hard when you finally leave school.

[user104658]

I wonder wheat kind of job these people are studying for? It's going to be a great big bloody shock when they discover life's hard when you finally leave school.
Well she is a law student so she's studying for a pretty cushy / easy job to be fair.

[Withano]

Is there a version without that narrator bloke?

[Kizzy]

She's very articulate and for a such a young age and can more than hold her own in the debate, the professor who simply suggests that anyone born post 1980 has a different mindset is in effect infantalising anyone younger than 37 :/

[Kizzy]

Demand specifics don't just accept slogans...... Now back to 'problem glasses' ( the sjw)

:joker:

[Northern Monkey]

["The Answer Might Surprise You!"]

I agree with the psychologist's middle ground stance. Include the warning in the prospectus material for the course along with an outline of topics that will be covered, to allow people to decide whether or not they are in the mindset to be able to take on the course in the first place, and then there should be no reason to micromanage it at a later date for every individual class or lecture. The warnings about the subjects that are likely to be covered are clear from the outset. A good compromise, surely.

This is what i think.If somebody is studying law they have a good chance when they get a job of coming into many conflict situations and maybe quite disturbing cases depending on what field they go into.They need to learn about how to handle these cases and situations and be prepared.
If they can't even deal with class then maybe that is the wrong career path for them.
They won't get a trigger warning when they're defending a vicious murderer in court.

[Northern Monkey]

I wonder wheat kind of job these people are studying for? It's going to be a great big bloody shock when they discover life's hard when you finally leave school.
Yeah i don't think all this pandering to peoples fragilities is helpful at all.They need to be exposed to what real life is about and be prepared.

[Niamh.]

I listened to a tiny bit of it, trigger warnings for what? fgs :laugh:

[Kizzy]

Is this not the professor who compared homosexuality to incest during a lecture?

[Northern Monkey]

I listened to a tiny bit of it, trigger warnings for what? fgs :laugh:

Anything that may upset one of the many victimised oppressed minorities that seem to be so prevalent in US universities at the moment.

[Niamh.]

Anything that may upset one of the many victimised oppressed minorities that seem to be so prevalent in US universities at the moment.

Sounds a bit like babying to me, if a lecturer says something that someone finds that offensive would they not have rather heard it so they could report it or something?

[Northern Monkey]

Is this not the professor who compared homosexuality to incest during a lecture?

No.....and he didn't.

He said that for a straight male the sight of two men getting it on stirs up the same kind of reaction as if you were told to sleep with a sibling.Both situations would be equally distasteful.He didn't say being gay is wrong like incest....and it was part of a lesson.

[Northern Monkey]

Sounds a bit like babying to me, if a lecturer says something that someone finds that offensive would they not have rather heard it so they could report it or something?

It's more to do with lesson material that may upset people rather than lecturers actually deliberately offending people i think.

When people are at uni age they are young adults.They should be treated as such imo.Treating them like kids is not gonna prepare them for the future.

[Northern Monkey]

Is there a version without that narrator bloke?

Just try and ignore him.:laugh:

[Niamh.]

It's more to do with lesson material that may upset people rather than lecturers actually deliberately offending people i think.

When people are at uni age they are young adults.They should be treated as such imo.Treating them like kids is not gonna prepare them for the future.

I agree with that. If you're going to do a college course surely you have to be able to cover all the lesson material otherwise maybe that field of study is not for you?

[Northern Monkey]

I agree with that. If you're going to do a college course surely you be able to cover all the lesson material otherwise maybe that field of study is not for you?

Exactly.Censoring everything is a slippery slope to substandard education.

[jennyjuniper]

Should universities be a 'safe space' where people are sheltered from anything that may hurt their feelings?
69Pf_DmScck

NO. If people who want all the advantages of being thinking adults can't solve their problems other than running off to hide, giving them 'safe spaces' will only feed into their immature way of handling life.. Stand up and deal with problems, instead of hiding from them. I suspect a lot of this is to do with needy people wanting to feel elitist and 'special'.

[jennyjuniper]

Sounds a bit like babying to me, if a lecturer says something that someone finds that offensive would they not have rather heard it so they could report it or something?

Yes. Or do the mature thing and confront him/her at the time.

[Niamh.]

Yes. Or do the mature thing and confront him/her at the time.

Yeah exactly

[Tom4784]

The title of the video and it's caption is enough to tell me that it's not going to provide a balanced outlook so I'll just answer question in the OP.

The idea of safe spaces is ridiculous but I do believe that, when tackling difficult subjects, it's only decent to warn people ahead of time. Respect people's feelings and experiences but don't shy away from reality or the truth.

[arista]

You do realise there are 3 threads on this exact same topic now?


I would Tell Admin.

[user104658]

This is what i think.If somebody is studying law they have a good chance when they get a job of coming into many conflict situations and maybe quite disturbing cases depending on what field they go into.They need to learn about how to handle these cases and situations and be prepared.
If they can't even deal with class then maybe that is the wrong career path for them.
They won't get a trigger warning when they're defending a vicious murderer in court.
Well I also am thinking of what my wife is currently doing in Mental Health. Obviously, learning about depression / anxiety disorders etc. And of course dealing with people who are currently suffering from them, could be a trigger issue for some. But you wouldn't take on the course anyway and say "I want to avoid those issues"... ... You would know that it's just not a course that you can realistically study.

Likewise, I studied psychology and in the "abnormal psychology" sections there are a LOT of case studies of childhood abuse and neglect, as it's one of the main causes of abnormal psychology in later life. It's understandable that someone who has themselves been abused might not be able to handle those lectures but again... It's an important part of the subject... It's going to come up.

Similar for sexual assault / assault in general / abuse cases if you're going to study Law... It should be pretty obvious what's involved.

I definitely don't believe that anyone who has trigger issues is weak or "just shouldn't have them", for many people they are genuine and very real, like the examples above, they can come from very dark experiences. But I do think that having trigger warnings for individual lectures is not only impractical... It's just not feasible. If it's part of what you're learning about, you can't just say "I'm skipping this bit" and have it removed from your assessments too...

But ALL of that said, looking at a few University prospectuses, it's not often made clear what the content of a course will be beyond a very vague couple of paragraphs, and I think it would be fair enough to suggest the Universities should give more information about the content of courses, before an offer of a place is accepted. Especially considering that University IS a paid-for service, and a very expensive one at that.

Could be as simple as an email sent along with the offer of acceptance outlining any potential issues and suggesting that the applicant consider it carefully before commencing study. Would cover everyone then from the outset, no need for conflicts later :shrug:.

Even TV shows these days do something similar at the start of a show, so that you can simply not watch it if you think it'll be an issue. They don't pause the show half way through and say "Warning! Upsetting part is about to happen!"

[arista]

"Likewise, I studied psychology "


Yes TS
it shows in your posts......

[arista]

[They don't pause the show half way through and say "Warning! Upsetting part is about to happen!" ]

But on Ch5HD CBB
longer warnings after a ad
no one could miss that.

Viacom's Clever Legal Team
letting us Have the C and F words.
Is that not nice ... Dr.T.S.

[user104658]

[They don't pause the show half way through and say "Warning! Upsetting part is about to happen!" ]

But on Ch5HD CBB
longer warnings after a ad
no one could miss that.

Viacom's Clever Legal Team
letting us Have the C and F words.
Is that not nice ... Dr.T.S.

They have to repeat it after the ads on Channel 5 because the average Channel 5 viewer has an attention span of only a few seconds. Like a goldfish.

[arista]

They have to repeat it after the ads on Channel 5 because the average Channel 5 viewer has an attention span of only a few seconds. Like a goldfish.


Fair Points TS

Yes but at least the little ones
leave the the room..........

Or they are meant to.........

[Brillopad]

is this an exclusively american thing? i'm studying history at university and i haven't encountered one person who wants trigger warnings or safe spaces (thankfully).

It's totally barmy!

[Brillopad]

NO. If people who want all the advantages of being thinking adults can't solve their problems other than running off to hide, giving them 'safe spaces' will only feed into their immature way of handling life.. Stand up and deal with problems, instead of hiding from them. I suspect a lot of this is to do with needy people wanting to feel elitist and 'special'.

She comes across as a bit of a superior spoilt brat who has spent her life being protected from all the 'evil' in society by mummy and daddy. She lives in her own little bubble.

[Jack_]

I can't watch the video now but the obsession with 'trigger warnings' baffles me. I really don't see what the issue is with people being informed that the content of a lecture, programme, speech, performance or otherwise may potentially be upsetting for some. My housemate for example is currently doing a unit called War and Violence, in which they're discussing such delightful topics like torture and genocide - and he's said that the lecturer has made a point of jesting that the content is naturally 'pretty heavy for a Monday afternoon' and that given some of the images and statistics that are going to be shared, if anyone wishes to leave the room at any point they're welcome to.

No one is obliged to sit, listen and watch things they may find upsetting or indeed traumatic given past experiences - especially when they are paying £9,000 a year for the privilege. I don't want to watch horror movies for example, that's my prerogative and I'm not duty bound to sit there through one, this works in the same way.

Do I think it is beneficial for people to learn things they might not wish to have known? Yes. Are they absolutely required to just because some people around the world have some absurd obsession with people not fulfilling their role as 'adults' in the 'real world' (however you even qualify these ridiculous notions). Definitely not. Once again I find it fascinating that it's usually the so-called proponents of free speech and freedom of expression who have such an issue with people doing just that.

Incidentally since TS mentioned it, no one seems to have any problems with such warnings about sensitive material in a TV show being provided before it begins, or post-show advice and helplines being offered to those affected. Where's the faux outrage and insults after nearly every episode of EastEnders?

In regards to free speech at universities - since this topic seems to be cropping up a lot on here of late, I find myself constantly conflicted on the issue. On the one hand, yes, universities of all places should be an environment where ideas are discussed and debated in a civilised and academic setting. I can however also see the opposite - which is that universities should also be institutions of tolerance, solidarity and inclusion - the one place (wah wah safe space triggered snowflake wah wah real world wah pussies) where many people who may have felt marginalised growing up feel they can express and be themselves without fear of degradation. A students' union thus shouldn't be spending its money on inviting speakers who actively deride the rights and existence of many student communities within the university.

I actually think the right answer lies somewhere in the middle. By all means stage and encourage academic debate, but the clue is in the phrase - academic. This does not equate to inviting real life troll Katie Hopkins along to spout her unfounded bile, she is not and never will be anything close to an academic. It would be akin to those on the left asking Gary Lineker to provide a counter argument. If you want an academic debate, we're talking people like Charles Murray or Imogen Tyler, not some rent a gob media *****.

[user104658]

She comes across as a bit of a superior spoilt brat who has spent her life being protected from all the 'evil' in society by mummy and daddy. She lives in her own little bubble.

Let's face it though... US academia is so financially prohibitive that without "spoilt brats and their mummies and daddies", it simply wouldn't exist at all.

[Kizzy]

No.....and he didn't.

He said that for a straight male the sight of two men getting it on stirs up the same kind of reaction as if you were told to sleep with a sibling.Both situations would be equally distasteful.He didn't say being gay is wrong like incest....and it was part of a lesson.

Yes it is, it's the guy from the radio interview you posted the other day.
It was an insensitive comparison, and I can see how it might make some young people feel uncomfortable if they identify as gay themselves, or even if they don't there's the connotation is is something to be repulsed by.

Sharing a personal opinion in the course of a lecture is fine but it's important to ensure you don't say anything indirectly insulting.

The student was well within her rights to express her discomfort, for him to then literally broadcast his objection to being challenged and the emotive language he uses while doing it is telling.

Again here he discredits a whole generation :/

Trigger warnings are not a new thing, they are on programming on sensitive subjects and news reports so where's the issue?

[Brillopad]

Let's face it though... US academia is so financially prohibitive that without "spoilt brats and their mummies and daddies", it simply wouldn't exist at all.

If she is the result maybe we would be better off without them. Any moron can buy an education. Says little about their IQ.

[user104658]

If she is the result maybe we would be better off without them. Any moron can buy an education. Says little about their IQ.

Maybe I was wrong yesterday; I actually agree with you there :joker:. Access to higher education should be based purely on the academic merit of the applicant and not the ability of their parents to pay 6-figure-sums to buy them an education... and also, if access WAS more academically competitive, and financially feasible for all, then the people who end up with places would probably be better suited to understanding the emotional robustness that a person needs to fully engage, openly, with the academic process.

[Kizzy]

Define 'emotional robustness'...

As I said earlier this 17yr old young woman is eloquent, reasoned, articulate and more than capable of participating in an academic debate... So where is the issue?

[user104658]

Define 'emotional robustness'...

As I said earlier this 17yr old young woman is eloquent, reasoned, articulate and more than capable of participating in an academic debate... So where is the issue?

Like I said, it's not a judgement, but to fully engage in certain subjects at a high academic level you have to be prepared to encounter distressing and potentially emotionally triggering subject matters. It can't simply be that certain parts of the course are optional for those who can't. Examples being child abuse issues being covered in a psychology degree, or sexual assault cases being discussed in a criminal law degree. I did mention, though, that I think Universities should be clearer with prospective students BEFORE they start a course, if that course contains any potentially distressing subject matters. Once someone begins a course of education with that knowledge, though... I don't think it's feasible or reasonable to provide warnings at every lecture... mainly because I don't think it should make any difference. You can't just say "oh well then I'll skip those lectures / that entire portion of the degree" ... it would basically be "Trigger warning for this lecture but you have to come anyway so...".

[Marsh.]

Like I said, it's not a judgement, but to fully engage in certain subjects at a high academic level you have to be prepared to encounter distressing and potentially emotionally triggering subject matters. It can't simply be that certain parts of the course are optional for those who can't. Examples being child abuse issues being covered in a psychology degree, or sexual assault cases being discussed in a criminal law degree. I did mention, though, that I think Universities should be clearer with prospective students BEFORE they start a course, if that course contains any potentially distressing subject matters. Once someone begins a course of education with that knowledge, though... I don't think it's feasible or reasonable to provide warnings at every lecture... mainly because I don't think it should make any difference. You can't just say "oh well then I'll skip those lectures / that entire portion of the degree" ... it would basically be "Trigger warning for this lecture but you have to come anyway so...".

Yeah, if they later on think they can't handle certain subject areas then they need to ask themselves if studying (and potentially gaining a career in) that field is really what they should be doing. :think:

[Vicky.]

Ugh. Safe space and triggered. My current least fave words, closely followed by snowflake. And all 3 seem to be tibbs buzzwords right now. Fantastic.

IMO Uni should be a place that prepares you for the real world. In the real world, you will get ignorant arseholes and people who disagree with you, you may well have to discuss topics that make you feel uncomfortable and so on. Not many bosses would take wailing 'I am TRIGGERED' whilst sobbing and running out of the workplace all because someone said something about a scrotum or something all that well... I do not feel there is any need for the 'safe space' nonsense.

[smudgie]

Ugh. Safe space and triggered. My current least fave words, closely followed by snowflake. And all 3 seem to be tibbs buzzwords right now. Fantastic.

IMO Uni should be a place that prepares you for the real world. In the real world, you will get ignorant arseholes and people who disagree with you, you may well have to discuss topics that make you feel uncomfortable and so on. Not many bosses would take wailing 'I am TRIGGERED' whilst sobbing and running out of the workplace all because someone said something about a scrotum or something all that well... I do not feel there is any need for the 'safe space' nonsense.

Indeed.
She won't get far in the university of life.
If you decide to go to uni to learn more of a subject with a view to a career then surely you would find out what the subject is all about.

[jennyjuniper]

She comes across as a bit of a superior spoilt brat who has spent her life being protected from all the 'evil' in society by mummy and daddy. She lives in her own little bubble.

It would seem so. I know as a parent we all want to protect our kids from evil in the world, but the best protection you can give them is to help them to become free thinking, strong and independant adults, who face up to life's problems instead of running away from them and expecting everyone else to dance to their tune.:wavey:

[Niamh.]

Ugh. Safe space and triggered. My current least fave words, closely followed by snowflake. And all 3 seem to be tibbs buzzwords right now. Fantastic.

IMO Uni should be a place that prepares you for the real world. In the real world, you will get ignorant arseholes and people who disagree with you, you may well have to discuss topics that make you feel uncomfortable and so on. Not many bosses would take wailing 'I am TRIGGERED' whilst sobbing and running out of the workplace all because someone said something about a scrotum or something all that well... I do not feel there is any need for the 'safe space' nonsense.

:laugh3:

[Kizzy]

Like I said, it's not a judgement, but to fully engage in certain subjects at a high academic level you have to be prepared to encounter distressing and potentially emotionally triggering subject matters. It can't simply be that certain parts of the course are optional for those who can't. Examples being child abuse issues being covered in a psychology degree, or sexual assault cases being discussed in a criminal law degree. I did mention, though, that I think Universities should be clearer with prospective students BEFORE they start a course, if that course contains any potentially distressing subject matters. Once someone begins a course of education with that knowledge, though... I don't think it's feasible or reasonable to provide warnings at every lecture... mainly because I don't think it should make any difference. You can't just say "oh well then I'll skip those lectures / that entire portion of the degree" ... it would basically be "Trigger warning for this lecture but you have to come anyway so...".

These trigger warnings are for people who may require them, not everyone therefore this logic is flawed that young people are more sensitive because they have trigger warnings, because at present they don't.... Which is why the young lady is debating their usefulness for those who may be affected to be warned as an important psychological tool is preparedness, if you want to challenge your feels you have to be mentally aware and receptive.

Should you have say, a fear of spiders and someone just plopped a spider on the table you might have an extreme response... whereas if someone were to say, 'here is a spider' we are going to look at this today, delivered in a safe way you would feel more comfortable to confront it.

So basically as you say I think all that is being suggested as yet is the students be made aware prior to commencement of a lecture but that's not to say that that would be sufficient reason to miss that lecture in it's entirety.
Should it say be in relation to a topic such as rape, and there were images to be shown of the scene, that may require a warning for example?
It's respectful, to blurt on about the need for PTSD sufferers to just in essence 'get over it' as this guy does is questionable.

[Kizzy]

Maybe that's why the suicide rate is so high, and there is no money for mental health.... because not enough people recognise it as important?

[user104658]

Maybe that's why the suicide rate is so high, and there is no money for mental health.... because not enough people recognise it as important?
It's certainly not that I don't recognise it as important, I just find myself strangely juxtaposed when it comes specifically to higher education. To properly and openly teach or study any subject at that level, the flow of information has to be fast and - for want of a better term - free from moral limitations no matter how trivial they may seem. Constantly assessing and second guessing material is a stumbling block... It slows everything down.

Not every subject is suitable for every student, no matter how academically able they are. That just needs to be accepted. There's a reason the dropout rate for med students spikes around the time that they start using real cadavers, for example. In the same way that you wouldn't become a paramedic if you were specifically distressed by blood / death, and you wouldn't become a firefighter if you were afraid of fire.

So if you're studying, say, criminal law you should expect to encounter material related to sexual assault at some point by default. It should simply be obvious that its a possibility / probability. A likewise for most subjects... I sort of feel like the responsibility lies with any potential student to understand the topics they're committing to study before they start? I can't think of really any realistic situation in which someone in an academic subject should be shocked or surprised when uncomfortable material comes up without a specific warning at the time :shrug:.

[Niamh.]

It's certainly not that I don't recognise it as important, I just find myself strangely juxtaposed when it comes specifically to higher education. To properly and openly teach or study any subject at that level, the flow of information has to be fast and - for want of a better term - free from moral limitations no matter how trivial they may seem. Constantly assessing and second guessing material is a stumbling block... It slows everything down.

Not every subject is suitable for every student, no matter how academically able they are. That just needs to be accepted. There's a reason the dropout rate for med students spikes around the time that they start using real cadavers, for example. In the same way that you wouldn't become a paramedic if you were specifically distressed by blood / death, and you wouldn't become a firefighter if you were afraid of fire.

So if you're studying, say, criminal law you should expect to encounter material related to sexual assault at some point by default. It should simply be obvious that its a possibility / probability. A likewise for most subjects... I sort of feel like the responsibility lies with any potential student to understand the topics they're committing to study before they start? I can't think of really any realistic situation in which someone in an academic subject should be shocked or surprised when uncomfortable material comes up without a specific warning at the time :shrug:.

Yes exactly.

Also, if a certain subject "triggers" a person i would have thought that exposing yourself to that subject and facing it head on would be the best way to deal with it? Like surely learning how to not become "triggered" is a more healthy option mentally than running and hiding from it?

[Vicky.]

The way I look at this is...if you are studying (for example) criminal law or something, and you suffer PTSD (most people who yell triggered do not suffer this, they just want attention) as you were raped. And you have to do some work on rape...one, you should really know this would be part of the course. Two, warnings and such are all well and good but lets say you did get a job in the area you are studying. in real life there will be NO trigger warnings given, you really do just have to get on with it, as hard as that will be for someone with PTSD. So surely its better to learn how to deal with it at uni, before actually going into the workplace?

Its not a nice situation. However if you really are that traumatized and such from a topic, then it probably is not the career direction for you?

[Kizzy]

It's certainly not that I don't recognise it as important, I just find myself strangely juxtaposed when it comes specifically to higher education. To properly and openly teach or study any subject at that level, the flow of information has to be fast and - for want of a better term - free from moral limitations no matter how trivial they may seem. Constantly assessing and second guessing material is a stumbling block... It slows everything down.

Not every subject is suitable for every student, no matter how academically able they are. That just needs to be accepted. There's a reason the dropout rate for med students spikes around the time that they start using real cadavers, for example. In the same way that you wouldn't become a paramedic if you were specifically distressed by blood / death, and you wouldn't become a firefighter if you were afraid of fire.

So if you're studying, say, criminal law you should expect to encounter material related to sexual assault at some point by default. It should simply be obvious that its a possibility / probability. A likewise for most subjects... I sort of feel like the responsibility lies with any potential student to understand the topics they're committing to study before they start? I can't think of really any realistic situation in which someone in an academic subject should be shocked or surprised when uncomfortable material comes up without a specific warning at the time :shrug:.

I don't understand your link between education and emotion? You can be professional and experienced in any field and still feel...

'free from moral limitations' why?... why should anyone expect to be free of moral limitations at uni as opposed to anywhere else?
Of course you should be exposed to it I haven't said you shouldn't, however should you have a need, then a warning prior is a perfect way of gaining the exposure without the anxiety.
It is unrealistic to suggest that a person studying to that level wouldn't be aware of the requirements of the role, that said the delivery of the information is key. These warnings may even serve to reduce the risk of anyone dropping out.

[user104658]

Yes exactly.

Also, if a certain subject "triggers" a person i would have thought that exposing yourself to that subject and facing it head on would be the best way to deal with it? Like surely learning how to not become "triggered" is a more healthy option mentally than running and hiding from it?
I think it depends really, complete avoidance results in repression but on the other hand going in too hard can be a disaster. Major example would be the victims of serious childhood abuse encountering not only case studies of similar things, but also having the psychological consequences laid out on front of them. If it's someone who still has some of that trauma "behind walls", chipping away at the wall before that person has extensively worked through their past with professional help is usually a very bad idea. The human mind is very good at protecting itself in basic ways but, to be honest, not brilliant at healing itself without conscious effort. Which is essentially what "triggering" is - the basic protections failing around an issue that hasn't been addressed fully, resulting in emotional distress.

But people know, in general, what their "wounds" are... And they know where these issues are likely to come up. Also people who HAVE fully worked through their issues will know it. It doesn't happen by accident or automatically.

So I would basically say... Even though it may seem harsh... If you know that you have trigger issues, then the sensible option is to not enter a course of academic study that is likely to "go there" without getting professional therapy first. Don't start one and then realise "Uh oh I don't think I can handle this...".

[Kizzy]

Yes exactly.

Also, if a certain subject "triggers" a person i would have thought that exposing yourself to that subject and facing it head on would be the best way to deal with it? Like surely learning how to not become "triggered" is a more healthy option mentally than running and hiding from it?

Well if we can all just 'get over' everything what is the need for psychologists such as the lecturer?...he's doing himself out of a damn job the wally!

[Niamh.]

Well if we can all just 'get over' everything what is the need for psychologists such as the lecturer?...he's doing himself out of a damn job the wally!

I don't mean "get over it" just like that if it's something seriously traumatic like the example TS gave but if it is that serious then that person probably shouldn't be in a course that "triggers" them because they can't then complete all the course material involved.

Basically what TS said in his last post

[user104658]

Well if we can all just 'get over' everything what is the need for psychologists such as the lecturer?...he's doing himself out of a damn job the wally!
I do take the potential for people to become emotionally distressed seriously, as I said in the post above, it's not really about that though. A University degree / lecture theatre is not the appropriate place for people to start engaging in mindful exposure to an issue. Yes, doing so is a big part of the recovery process, but frankly, that process should have been explored extensively long before considering higher education in the area.

As for why not having stumbling blocks / limitations in a university setting is important... I suppose that's partly personal opinion but I believe that Universities are - or at least should still be - primarily places where we seek to collectively improve understanding of the subjects themselves. They are for the pursuit and advancement of human knowledge. It may sound harsh but I can't stand the idea of that pursuit being capped, in any way, by the limitations of the individual. I don't think it's always an environment that's suitable for everyone. It CAN be, but that would be down to the individual preparing themselves before even applying... Not commencing, and then expecting to get prepared later.

[Kizzy]

I don't mean "get over it" just like that if it's something seriously traumatic like the example TS gave but if it is that serious then that person probably shouldn't be in a course that "triggers" them because they can't then complete all the course material involved.

Basically what TS said in his last post

So instead of issuing a warning it's just best they don't even try?
That's not very productive,no.. we are not willing to adjust, you can just foff, is that how it should be?

[Vicky.]

So instead of issuing a warning it's just best they don't even try?
That's not very productive,no.. we are not willing to adjust, you can just foff, is that how it should be?

But after uni, there won't be any warnings. So how will they deal with it then? Is it not better to be realistic, and if the course is not for them they can switch, rather than 'protect' (sorry couldn't think of a better way to put that) these people and then throw them to the wolves after they have spent 4/5 years studying the subject? If they can't deal with the trigger stuff at uni, then they definitely cannot in the real world where its chance to be so much harsher.

[Kizzy]

I do take the potential for people to become emotionally distressed seriously, as I said in the post above, it's not really about that though. A University degree / lecture theatre is not the appropriate place for people to start engaging in mindful exposure to an issue. Yes, doing so is a big part of the recovery process, but frankly, that process should have been explored extensively long before considering higher education in the area.

As for why not having stumbling blocks / limitations in a university setting is important... I suppose that's partly personal opinion but I believe that Universities are - or at least should still be - primarily places where we seek to collectively improve understanding of the subjects themselves. They are for the pursuit and advancement of human knowledge. It may sound harsh but I can't stand the idea of that pursuit being capped, in any way, by the limitations of the individual. I don't think it's always an environment that's suitable for everyone. It CAN be, but that would be down to the individual preparing themselves before even applying... Not commencing, and then expecting to get prepared later.



Isn't it?.... where else are you going to get it then, I thought debate and education were in integral part of socialisation and formed the cornerstone of our critical thinking?...where better?

Survival of the fittest eh?... Hey, teenager do you need support! well, this is not the place for you.

[Kizzy]

But after uni, there won't be any warnings. So how will they deal with it then? Is it not better to be realistic, and if the course is not for them they can switch, rather than 'protect' (sorry couldn't think of a better way to put that) these people and then throw them to the wolves after they have spent 4/5 years studying the subject? If they can't deal with the trigger stuff at uni, then they definitely cannot in the real world where its chance to be so much harsher.

There are, there are warnings before upsetting news items, on films, on soaps...

[Brillopad]

Isn't it?.... where else are you going to get it then, I thought debate and education were in integral part of socialisation and formed the cornerstone of our critical thinking?...where better?

Survival of the fittest eh?... Hey, teenager do you need support! well, this is not the place for you.

I think that is a far too Molly-coddling attitude and not beneficial to most ordinary well-balanced people of which it would be imagined most university students would be.

All universities would have student welfare departments for those that need extra help.

All this trigger nonsence is PC gone mad and detrimental to the over-all psychological health of people living in the real world. It creates a very needy and lazy society.

[Kizzy]

I think that is a far too Molly-coddling attitude and not beneficial to most ordinary well-balanced people of which it would be imagined most university students would be.

All universities would have student welfare departments for those that need extra help.

All this trigger nonsence is PC gone mad and detrimental to the over-all psychological health of people living in the real world. It creates a very needy and lazy society.

Sorry you lost me at this, I was interested but then the comprehension was lost. I don't recognise this as a valid term with which to express any opinion.

[user104658]

Yeah Brillo don't ruin what could have been a perfectly good point with daft phrases like "PC Gone Mad"!

There's a point in there somewhere. It should be assumed that, whilst it is a major issue and a large number of people ARE affected, the majority of students on a course will not have any related trigger issues and those students also have to be considered. That's where it gets a bit theoretical but, given that the usefulness of trigger warnings is also purely theoretical (to my knowledge, it has never been extensively studied), I think still valid;

Human beings are social animals. We constantly perceive invisible social cues from those around us and our behaviour and psychology adapts accordingly, and that needs to be taken into account before stating that you are about to approach a topic that "may" trigger anxiety ... ... ... because effectively what you are saying is "This definitely makes some people anxious!". The result of that, is that it immediately becomes MORE likely to make OTHERS anxious. It's a contentious issue but there is a theory - and one that I actually believe, personally - that anxiety can be "infectious". In the same way that seeing someone yawn makes you yawn... being told (and therefore becoming aware) that people around you are anxious kicks in a primordial instinct to also be anxious. In simple terms, it promotes on a subliminal level; "Other people are in a fight or flight state. Should I be in a fight or flight state?? Is there danger??"

[Vicky.]

There are, there are warnings before upsetting news items, on films, on soaps...

Yes, but not at work?