Hypothetical on the US executive order.

[Kizzy]

Is it justified?..

'I'll pose a question, in all the years since say... the gulf war started, excluding the twin towers as that was 'evidenced' to be Libya, what direct terrorist incident from extremist Muslims has the US experienced on American soil?'

Therefore what is the evidence to support the executive order?

I posted this in a thread but it wasn't well received and it really does warrant a thread of it's own.

[Northern Monkey]

I think if it's only until the vetting process is sorted out properly then it could possibly be temporarily justified.IF that's what it is.
I'm against his refugee ban though as they can be vetted in the camp before they arrive on US soil and people with green cards should not be turned away as by definition they have already been vetted.So as a whole i'm against Trumps executive order.He's gone a step too far imo.

[Crimson Dynamo]

But also to answer the OP

YOu do realise that most of the evidence you ask for will be intelligence and classified?

[Kizzy]

I think if it's only until the vetting process is sorted out properly then it could possibly be temporarily justified.IF that's what it is.
I'm against his refugee ban though as they can be vetted in the camp before they arrive on US soil and people with green cards should not be turned away as by definition they have already been vetted.So as a whole i'm against Trumps executive order.He's gone a step too far imo.

This is it, there is no evidence that the system they have atm is not working.

[jennyjuniper]

Why exclude the twin towers? Even if it were Libya behind it. They were still muslim terrorists. Then there is the Boston Marathon massacre. That's only off the top of my head, although I'm sure they will be more. Anyway since isis and other like minded morons keep making threats, it's the potential for terrorist violence that the US and other western countries have to guard against.

[Kizzy]

But also to answer the OP

YOu do realise that most of the evidence you ask for will be intelligence and classified?

Ok I amended the question.

It would be impossible to men in black stylee erase an attack, except the bowling green massacre obv...

'what direct terrorist incident from extremist Muslims has the US experienced on American soil?'

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ok I amended the question.

It would be impossible to men in black stylee erase an attack, except the bowling green massacre obv...

'what direct terrorist incident from extremist Muslims has the US experienced on American soil?'

And you know that is why the Executive order was signed how?

[Kizzy]

Why exclude the twin towers? Even if it were Libya behind it. They were still muslim terrorists. Then there is the Boston Marathon massacre. That's only off the top of my head, although I'm sure they will be more. Anyway since isis and other like minded morons keep making threats, it's the potential for terrorist violence that the US and other western countries have to guard against.

Leader of the 9/11 hijackers was Mohammed Atta, an Egyptian. Egypt is not on the list.

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Was an American citizen.

[Kizzy]

And you know that is why the Executive order was signed how?

I don't... I'm asking what is the justification for an executive order.

[DemolitionRed]

Is it justified?..

'I'll pose a question, in all the years since say... the gulf war started, excluding the twin towers as that was 'evidenced' to be Libya, what direct terrorism from extremist Muslims has the US experienced on American soil?'

Therefore what is the evidence to support the executive order?

I posted this in a thread but it wasn't well received and it really does warrant a thread of it's own.



I'm going to turn your question around for a moment Kizzy. I hope you don't mind...

1. What direct terrorism from extreme Western governments have the Iraqi, Libyan, Afghan and Syrian people experienced on their own soil?'

All these anti-Muslim threads certain people keep posting on here are tiresome but the accusations that us lefties are in some way complicit with these Muslim terrorists, is tedious and misguided.

Unfortunately, due to the present hysteria surrounding Islam, it has made sensible criticism of that faith almost impossible. I would love to be able to sensibly criticise certain things about the Muslim faith or sensibly talk about how terrorism could be avoided but instead, I find myself defending Islam because the ignorance surrounding these topics is both ignorant and stupid. I can't talk sensibly about Islam and all the problems with Jihadists and neither can I talk about these things with people who are Islamophobes.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm going to turn your question around for a moment Kizzy. I hope you don't mind...

1. What direct terrorism from extreme Western governments have the Iraqi, Libyan, Afghan and Syrian people experienced on their own soil?'

All these anti-Muslim threads certain people keep posting on here are tiresome but the accusations that us lefties are in some way complicit with these Muslim terrorists, is tedious and misguided.

Unfortunately, due to the present hysteria surrounding Islam, it has made sensible criticism of that faith almost impossible. I would love to be able to sensibly criticise certain things about the Muslim faith or sensibly talk about how terrorism could be avoided but instead, I find myself defending Islam because the ignorance surrounding these topics is both ignorant and stupid. I can't talk sensibly about Islam and all the problems with Jihadists and neither can I talk about these things with people who are Islamophobes.

All these anti-Muslim threads certain people keep posting on here are tiresome but the accusations that us lefties are in some way complicit with these Muslim terrorists, is tedious and misguided.

Can I remind you that it is against forum rules to insult members and secondly

what accusations do you specifically refer to?

[DemolitionRed]

All these anti-Muslim threads certain people keep posting on here are tiresome but the accusations that us lefties are in some way complicit with these Muslim terrorists, is tedious and misguided.

Can I remind you that it is against forum rules to insult members and secondly

what accusations do you specifically refer to?

I didn't insult anyone directly but if you see yourself in the image I painted and if it makes you feel offended then I'm just going to have to live with that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I didn't insult anyone directly but if you see yourself in the image I painted and if it makes you feel offended then I'm just going to have to live with that.

No I am reminding you of forum rules so that people dont report you and you get banned :smug:

[Withano]

I don't... I'm asking what is the justification for an executive order.

I'm genuinely surprised to see there is none so far. I saw this thread earlier and assumed it would be debated for days, but there is little rational input from the other side up to now

[Crimson Dynamo]

I'm genuinely surprised to see there is none so far. I saw this thread earlier and assumed it would be debated for days, but there is little rational input from the other side up to now

because no one on Tibb has security clearance for US intelligence

thankfully a vet USA soldier has at least shone a mirror at Iraq for us all.

[Withano]

because no one on Tibb has security clearance for US intelligence

thankfully a vet USA soldier has at least shone a mirror at Iraq for us all.

Are you suggesting that hundreds of American people lost family members to extremists and it was ignored by all media?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Are you suggesting that hundreds of American people lost family members to extremists and it was ignored by all media?

i am not, what i said was pretty clear tbh

[Cherie]

I don't particularly see a need for it, The USA has a pretty good vetting system before you go not to mention the grilling you get when you arrive, unless you exit via Dublin/Shannon where you get the grilling before you leave the country, :laugh: I think Trump just wants to be seen to be honouring his election pledges, I don't know why he is going against the judges though :umm2:

[Withano]

i am not, what i said was pretty clear tbh

So in summary; no evidence in support for the executive order. Interesting. Are you in favour of it?

[Withano]

I don't particularly see a need for it, The USA has a pretty good vetting system before you go not to mention the grilling you get when you arrive, unless you exit via Dublin/Shannon where you get the grilling before you leave the country, :laugh: I think Trump just wants to be seen to be honouring his election pledges, I don't know why he is going against the judges though :umm2:

I agree with all of this. Id like to add that hes an old-fashioned man-child

[user104658]

It's merely the metaphorical extension of his "Wall". Both will cost the US a fortune, neither will increase their national security in any measurable way, so no, it's not justified at all. It's (yet another) popularity grab from a celebrity president that cares (1000x) more about an image that he wants to portray than any sort of usefulness or pragmatism in any of his policies.

[user104658]

thankfully a vet USA soldier has at least shone a mirror at Iraq for us all.

An ex-soldier turned PMC merc. Stop it with the alternative facts LT.

[Crimson Dynamo]

So in summary; no evidence in support for the executive order. Interesting. Are you in favour of it?

incorrect, a lot of the evidence is classified and will not be given to the media. Are you aware how intelligence works?

[Crimson Dynamo]

An ex-soldier turned PMC merc. Stop it with the alternative facts LT.

and stop trying to obfuscate with detail that is irrelevant to the issue

[Withano]

incorrect, a lot of the evidence is classified and will not be given to the media. Are you aware how intelligence works?

I just cant imagine having a strong opinion on an assumption

[user104658]

and stop trying to obfuscate with detail that is irrelevant to the issue

It's not irrelevant at all or you wouldn't keep doing it; you're trying to inflate the impact of his statement by making him out to be a patriot / military man fighting for his country because you know fine well that the opinions of a private military gun-for-hire who is in Iraq for cold hard cash (also known as, a mercenary) is slightly shakier ground. If you thought otherwise, you wouldn't keep referring to him as a soldier.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's not irrelevant at all or you wouldn't keep doing it; you're trying to inflate the impact of his statement by making him out to be a patriot / military man fighting for his country because you know fine well that the opinions of a private military gun-for-hire who is in Iraq for cold hard cash (also known as, a mercenary) is slightly shakier ground. If you thought otherwise, you wouldn't keep referring to him as a soldier.

whether he is a serving soldier or a vet is not really the point. He is active in Iraq on a day to day basis and works with actual Iraqis face to face so probably even better placed to state what he did.

I also would not want to debate with him if he should be called a soldier or an ex soldier as he looks like he could kill me in under 1 second.

[Niamh.]

I don't particularly see a need for it, The USA has a pretty good vetting system before you go not to mention the grilling you get when you arrive, unless you exit via Dublin/Shannon where you get the grilling before you leave the country, [emoji23] I think Trump just wants to be seen to be honouring his election pledges, I don't know why he is going against the judges though :umm2:
We were there in Oct/Nov and we got zero grilling, I was surprised

[user104658]

whether he is a serving soldier or a vet is not really the point. He is active in Iraq on a day to day basis and works with actual Iraqis face to face so probably even better placed to state what he did.

I also would not want to debate with him if he should be called a soldier or an ex soldier as he looks like he could kill me in under 1 second.

Yes, funnily enough it seems to have been a discussion he was having with other Iraqi civilians who were... :omgno:... discussing global politics and engaging him in conversation. Weird! They didn't even behead him a little bit. It's almost as if the suggestion that every Iraqi native is a secret ISIS supporter is slightly exaggerated...

[user104658]

We were there in Oct/Nov and we got zero grilling, I was surprised

See? It clearly doesn't work. They detain totally innocent people from the Middle East but they let the likes of Niamh in without question? Broken system.

[Beso]

Is it justified?..

'I'll pose a question, in all the years since say... the gulf war started, excluding the twin towers as that was 'evidenced' to be Libya, what direct terrorist incident from extremist Muslims has the US experienced on American soil?'

Therefore what is the evidence to support the executive order?

I posted this in a thread but it wasn't well received and it really does warrant a thread of it's own.


Someone mentioned the boston bombing..you swept it to one side rather than address it....:shrug: why?

[Beso]

Then you had that muslim soldier who shot up a few people at his american air base.

[jennyjuniper]

Leader of the 9/11 hijackers was Mohammed Atta, an Egyptian. Egypt is not on the list.

Dzhokhar Tsarnaev Was an American citizen.

He is still a muslim terrorist.

[MTVN]

Since when was 9/11 "evidenced to be Libya" :umm2:

[DemolitionRed]

But also to answer the OP

YOu do realise that most of the evidence you ask for will be intelligence and classified?

Oh bolox to that. Why would Right wing America, the very people who want to manufacture fear of Muslims, hide anything heinous about Muslims? Anti Muslim sentiment has been gathering pace since 9/11 and hate crime has increased at an alarming level.

If you aren't talking about letting in potential terrorists, your moaning about them not being able to adapt to Western ways or how they are trying to take over with Sharia Law or how they marry 13 year old girls. This isn't just about terrorism, its about hate and fear of an entire religion.

What I get, which you seem to have difficulty accepting is, Islamophobia is government policy.

[DemolitionRed]

Someone mentioned the boston bombing..you swept it to one side rather than address it....:shrug: why?.

What don't you get about an executive order to stop Muslims from entering the U.S? The Boston bombing was committed by Muslim Americans and not by people who had cunningly entered the country.

The only way we can curb Islamic extremism in the West is to stop the internet.

[user104658]

.

The only way we can curb Islamic extremism in the West is to stop the internet.

do it tbh.

[Beso]

.

What don't you get about an executive order to stop Muslims from entering the U.S? The Boston bombing was committed by Muslim Americans and not by people who had cunningly entered the country.

The only way we can curb Islamic extremism in the West is to stop the internet.


I get it..i'm just answering kizzys question...what don't you get about that?

[DemolitionRed]

I get it..i'm just answering kizzys question...what don't you get about that?

But you didn't answer her question did you? Oh and this is an open forum so if you want to answer Kizzy without any of us reacting to your reply, you need to do so privately.

[Beso]

But you didn't answer her question did you? Oh and this is an open forum so if you want to answer Kizzy without any of us reacting to your reply, you need to do so privately.

Look back and read her op

[Kizzy]

incorrect, a lot of the evidence is classified and will not be given to the media. Are you aware how intelligence works?

You are deliberately fudging the issue, my question has nothing to do with intelligence, but incidence.

[Kizzy]

He is still a muslim terrorist.

He was a home grown radicalised terrorist, nothing to do with anyone coming into the US with the express intent of terrorism.
He isn't banning all Muslims, so where is the logic?

[Kizzy]

Since when was 9/11 "evidenced to be Libya" :umm2:

Sorry I got my planes mixed up I'm thinking of Lockerbie, my mistake, I meant there is said to be evidence against Saudi Arabia, who are not on the list.

[DemolitionRed]

Sorry I got my planes mixed up I'm thinking of Lockerbie, my mistake, I meant there is said to be evidence against Saudi Arabia, who are not on the list.

15 of the terrorists in 9/11 were Saudi citizens. The other 4 were from Egypt, United Arab Emirates and Lebanon. None of these countries are on Trumps Executive Order. I know people are going to say it was Obama's list and maybe it was but it was Trump who implemented it.

[Cherie]

15 of the terrorists in 9/11 were Saudi citizens. The other 4 were from Egypt, United Arab Emirates and Lebanon. None of these countries are on Trumps Executive Order. I know people are going to say it was Obama's list and maybe it was but it was Trump who implemented it.

Would you mind removing my thread on the Hungarian village from your rant about Islamaphobic threads, if you can't read and understand what is being said in an OP maybe you shouldn't be blogging, thanks in advance I would have posted on the blog but couldn't find how to, and your wall is closed to messages

[Kizzy]

Would you mind removing my thread on the Hungarian village from your rant about Islamaphobic threads, if you can't read and understand what is being said in an OP maybe you shouldn't be blogging, thanks in advance I would have posted on the blog but couldn't find how to, and your wall is closed to messages

Could you not have PMed this and not derail my thread?

[Brillopad]

Could you not have PMed this and not derail my thread?

Hardly derailing the thread - surely your threads should be made of stearner stuff than that.

[Kizzy]

Hardly derailing the thread - surely your threads should be made of stearner stuff than that.

Do you have a comment in relation to the topic in discussion?