Stoke and Copeland by-elections

[MTVN]

Both announced in the next few hours with Labour hoping to hold both seats. Looks like Labour have held Stoke but Copeland is less sure. Would be the first time the opposition party has lost a seat in a by election for 35 years.

This Week by election special on now on BBC One

[smudgie]

Might be an early night.
Question time were saying it looks like labour has held on to both seats.
we will have to wait and see.
Shocking if they don't hold on to either of them really as they have since year dot.

[Cal.]

Typical of us Stokies!

[MTVN]

Might be an early night.
Question time were saying it looks like labour has held on to both seats.
we will have to wait and see.
Shocking if they don't hold on to either of them really as they have since year dot.

I'm surprised Dimbleby said that about Copeland because everything else I've seen is talking about Tory optimism

[LeatherTrumpet]

Surely labour will hold both?

[smudgie]

I'm surprised Dimbleby said that about Copeland because everything else I've seen is talking about Tory optimism

Yeah, I was even more surprised at Mr Carswells defeatist attitude as well.

[Wizard.]

834914539380621313

Come on let's have a Tory gain! Stoke ruining themselves into the ground if Labour hold the seat.

[Cal.]

I'm shook I swear UKIP always wins in most of Stoke?

[Cal.]

A fairly racist place (I'm allowed to say it)

[LeatherTrumpet]

A fairly racist place (I'm allowed to say it)

What's that got to do with UKIP?

[Wizard.]

A fairly racist place (I'm allowed to say it)

I have no sympathy for Stoke if Labour win. Labour have been the MP since 1950 and by the looks of Stoke there's been no development since then. The candidate said he wanted a second EU referendum when Stoke voted 70% to Leave. But let's vote Labour because they stick for us working class! Dream on...

[MTVN]

I'm shook I swear UKIP always wins in most of Stoke?

Stoke was ~70% Leave in the referendum but then it's been a safe Labour seat for so long and Ukip have had a pretty bad campaign

[reece(:]

Come through Labour :fc:

[reece(:]

Stoke was ~70% Leave in the referendum but then it's been a safe Labour seat for so long and Ukip have had a pretty bad campaign
Nuttall has been an embarrassment, especially considering he's meant to be UKIP's party leader

[Alf]

I like oatcakes.

[MTVN]

834916719659520000

Massive for the Tories and disastrous for Corbyn if so

[MTVN]

Nuttall has been an embarrassment, especially considering he's meant to be UKIP's party leader

Yep already talk about another change of leader at UKIP if it's really bad..

[Wizard.]

Come through Labour :fc:

Leave.

[reece(:]

Leave.
:umm2:

[Wizard.]

:umm2:

Borrow and bankrupt

[Withano]

What's that got to do with UKIP?

Not all UKIP supporters like racism, but all racists like UKIP x

[reece(:]

Not all UKIP supporters like racism, but all racists like UKIP x
:joker:

[reece(:]

Yep already talk about another change of leader at UKIP if it's really bad..

They should really consider it

[Alf]

Not all UKIP supporters like racism, but all racists like UKIP xThat's not true though, is it?

[smudgie]

834916719659520000

Massive for the Tories and disastrous for Corbyn if so

Indeed, and thank goodness it didn't turn yellow. Can't stand Tim Farron.

[Withano]

That's not true though, is it?

Is too

[Greg!]

Ukip will probably die on its arse and never recover if it loses tonight. Let us pray. :fc:

https://s32.postimg.org/m6frehwit/ezgif_90420901.jpg

[Kizzy]

Ukip will probably die on its arse and never recover if it loses tonight. Let us pray. :fc:

https://s32.postimg.org/m6frehwit/ezgif_90420901.jpg

:worship:

[AProducer'sWetDream]

I'm not too bothered about Copeland but I couldn't handle a UKIP gain in Stoke :bawling:

https://s32.postimg.org/m6frehwit/ezgif_90420901.jpg

[Nick.]

Do wonder where UKIP will go if/when they Stoke, what coverage is everyone watching? Sky seems to be the most worthwhile

Also Storm Doris seems to have impacted Stoke's turnout - Only 38%

[LeatherTrumpet]

Ukip will probably die on its arse and never recover if it loses tonight. Let us pray. :fc:

https://s32.postimg.org/m6frehwit/ezgif_90420901.jpg

Sure jan

[Braden]

The BNP candidate is named David Furness.

I thought Elton was going to need words with his partner, for a moment there.

[arista]

Stoke goes To Labour 7,853
UKIP 2nd 5,233
Conservative 3rd 5,154

[the truth]

theyve clung on but their victory has narrowed a great deal down t0 37% (down from 67& in 1997 and 38% is a pathetic turnout and the foolish mp voted in just made a pitful speech that missed the point of everything. he actually claimed theyd oversee the next industrial revolution, of course he didnt quite say how

[arista]

Ukip will probably die on its arse and never recover if it loses tonight. Let us pray. :fc:




No Greg!
Paul 2nd
he broke the big hold Labour used to have
Conservative close 3rd.

Yes Labour one
only just

[arista]

Copeland Goes to Conservative
13,748


Labour 11,601
LibDems 2,252
UKIP 2,025

[arista]

The PM went to help Trudy Harrison
which got more women voting

[AProducer'sWetDream]

I wonder how the Corbynistas will spin this one.
Will it be the media? The 'Red Tories'? Blair and Heseltine?

The current leadership is destroying this party. When will Corbyn do the decent thing and resign?

[arista]

I wonder how the Corbynistas will spin this one.
Will it be the media? The 'Red Tories'? Blair and Heseltine?

The current leadership is destroying this party. When will Corbyn do the decent thing and resign?


No he is pleased to Hold
Stoke On Trent
he said on Twitter Media 15mins ago
Reported Live on SkyNewsHD.

He held onto one
that will keep him safe.
its all in the numbers.

[arista]

Do wonder where UKIP will go if/when they Stoke, what coverage is everyone watching? Sky seems to be the most worthwhile

Also Storm Doris seems to have impacted Stoke's turnout - Only 38%


Final Turnout Later was 51%
So Bitch Doris
only stopped the early voters

[arista]

Feck Me
at 29mins on in Question Time
real old D. Dimb. (now 78 years old)
said Labour have held Copeland.
the look on their faces , the old fool said.


QT should not do this and look Stupid
get rid of THAT presenter

[Black Dagger]

Leave.

Lmao and then the right wing members wonder why more people avoid SN.

[joeysteele]

Copeland is a bad result for Labour.

Stoke is better, although this seat is set to disappear under new boundary changes.
UKIP did badly, this was a by election, they threw their new leader at it and he didn't even come extremely close to winning it,failing too to get voters out with just over a third turnout of voters.

Had the Conservatives fought harder in Stoke,rather than acting like a spin off UKIP agency, they could have come at least a very strong 2nd.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Another disaster for the left wing, it really has been a bad decade for their supporters, surely now they have to reconsider their world views?

[Cal.]

Yaaasss at UKIP not winning :clap1:

[Jack_]

The Prime Minister continues to refuse to confirm her position on a potential closure of a maternity ward at their hospital and what do the people of Copeland do? Elect a Tory MP. I've said it before and I'll say it again: turkeys voting for Christmas.

That being said, something has to give now. I've voted for Jeremy twice and still believe in his vision but the polls are catastrophic and results like this don't bode well. The problem is is that there's evidence of the electorate supporting many of his policy positions, but they just can't shake his baggage off. Which is a damn shame, the blame for which definitely lies at the hands of the media - but it's the only media we have and we have to work with it.

I don't know where we go from here. I've thought for a while perhaps give it a year to let the government trigger article 50 and then see if anything improves - but there's whispers she may be closing in on an early general election so there may be no time to waste at all. The next leader must stand on the same platform - of that I insist - I have absolutely no interest in the washy washy neoliberal monotony of the centre ground, if we're going to lose I want to lose backing a party whose policies I actually agree with. Someone like Clive Lewis seems perfect to me. Same platform, less baggage. That's what's needed. Quite when, I'm not sure.

[Kizzy]

Idiots, the PM refused to rule out closures in maternity services...that means women and babies at risk and fewer jobs in the area.
Just what an the tories do to people to wake them up?

Jeremy Corbyn is shouting at the top of his voice in the commons about saving the NHS and what is the focus?....Bastard Tom Watson, dabbing!!!

I can't deal :/

[LeatherTrumpet]

hopefully Diane Abbot will take over

:laugh2:

[Alf]

The Prime Minister continues to refuse to confirm her position on a potential closure of a maternity ward at their hospital and what do the people of Copeland do? Elect a Tory MP. I've said it before and I'll say it again: turkeys voting for Christmas.

That being said, something has to give now. I've voted for Jeremy twice and still believe in his vision but the polls are catastrophic and results like this don't bode well. The problem is is that there's evidence of the electorate supporting many of his policy positions, but they just can't shake his baggage off. Which is a damn shame, the blame for which definitely lies at the hands of the media - but it's the only media we have and we have to work with it.

I don't know where we go from here. I've thought for a while perhaps give it a year to let the government trigger article 50 and then see if anything improves - but there's whispers she may be closing in on an early general election so there may be no time to waste at all. The next leader must stand on the same platform - of that I insist - I have absolutely no interest in the washy washy neoliberal monotony of the centre ground, if we're going to lose I want to lose backing a party whose policies I actually agree with. Someone like Clive Lewis seems perfect to me. Same platform, less baggage. That's what's needed. Quite when, I'm not sure.Or maybe people don't just vote on one issue, and maybe the potential closure of a maternity ward isn't the issue that's currently giving some people the most worry in their lives.

Crazy thought, I know, but crazy things do happen from time to time.

[Jack_]

Or maybe people don't just vote on one issue, and maybe the potential closure of a maternity ward isn't the issue that's currently giving some people the most worry in their lives.

Crazy thought, I know, but crazy things do happen from time to time.

Okay then, copy and paste any other Tory policy or mantra and the result is the same. Working class members of the electorate voting for the Conservatives are turkeys voting for Christmas.

Crazy things do happen from time to time, you're right..

[Kizzy]

No the worry is the effect on nuclear, which is a poisoned chalice if ever there was one.

[MTVN]

Well if you listen to John McDonnell this morning the blame lays not with the current Labour leader but with the man who hasn't led the party for a decade

[Wizard.]

Okay then, copy and paste any other Tory policy or mantra and the result is the same. Working class members of the electorate voting for the Conservatives are turkeys voting for Christmas.

Crazy things do happen from time to time, you're right..

The Tories will do wonders in Copeland, no more poverty! People are sick of Labour using our NHS as a political pawn and the people of Copeland have seen right through the transparency of Labours campaign.

[Kizzy]

You mean the man who has been ramping up the disunity for days filling column inches with rubbish? He and his cronies are squarely to blame for drowning out seemingly the only voice that wants to save the NHS...But then Jeremy doesn't have a vested interest does he? Or rather he does but the same as the rest of us.

[AProducer'sWetDream]

You mean the man who has been ramping up the disunity for days filling column inches with rubbish? He and his cronies are squarely to blame for drowning out seemingly the only voice that wants to save the NHS...But then Jeremy doesn't have a vested interest does he? Or rather he does but the same as the rest of us.

"Conservatives 40%, Labour 26%"

https://yougov.co.uk/news/categories/voting-intention/

https://medium.com/@theobertram/the-copeland-test-labours-core-vote-ddac4fb8ee#.swi1xb6l6

Labour. Did. Not. Lose. Copeland. Because. Of. Tony. Blair.

[MTVN]

When even Owen Jones is sick to death of Corbyn you know you've got a problem

835052688865898498

No doubt Momentum will be labelling him a Blairite plotter soon

[arista]

"Idiots,"


No Kizzy
its Democracy

[arista]

"Unless something drastic happens,"


yes cocky Owen Joneshttps://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/681493332678291457/swHdHJNr_400x400.jpg
"events" change it all.

[Kizzy]

Look at the media of late, the comments of blair, mandelson, and stupid attention grabbing stunts by watson they for me diluted the message to Copeland.
Not sure why people think Owen Jones is such a corbynite anyway :/

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Look at the media of late, the comments of blair, mandelson, and stupid attention grabbing stunts by watson they for me diluted the message to Copeland.
Not sure why people think Owen Jones is such a corbynite anyway :/


Labour has been far behind in the polls for months and months- the latest interventions are not to blame for their disastorous performance last night. The media has always been hostile to Labour leaders- but Ed Milliband's party held places like Copeland.

And as for Owen Jones not being a Corbynite? :joker: He campaigned and voted for him.
http://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/scalefit_630_noupscale/579e85f61200008104a54646.jpeg

I'll give you this- it's not all down to Corbyn. Labour have some real systemic problems to overcome and a new leader won't necessarily have the solution. But JC has shown repeatedly that he isn't that solution.

[arista]

Yes Owens Early years

[Northern Monkey]

hopefully Diane Abbot will take over

:laugh2:

No!:laugh:
The country needs a strong opposition party.Abbott would be the only one person that could possibly be worse than Corbyn.

[Northern Monkey]

Look at the media of late, the comments of blair, mandelson, and stupid attention grabbing stunts by watson they for me diluted the message to Copeland.
Not sure why people think Owen Jones is such a corbynite anyway :/

Some people think Blair actually did Corbyn a favour.It seems like he was trying to undermine Corbyn but because everyone hates Blair it did the opposite.

[arista]

Some people think Blair actually did Corbyn a favour.It seems like he was trying to undermine Corbyn but because everyone hates Blair it did the opposite.


Yes Blair still Haunting everyone


Corbyn should have said BLAIR WAS WRONG
he has the Fire to Beat the Blair new Labour Side.

[MTVN]

Corbyn said only a few years ago: "No nuclear power, decommission the stations we've got". Not surprising he didn't go down too well in an area so tied up with the nuclear industry

Left wing Labour columnist Kevin Maguire in left wing Labour newspaper:

The two words which best describe why devastated Labour humiliatingly lost a Northern stronghold are “Jeremy” and “Corbyn”.

His name cropped up again and again on doorsteps in now blue not red Copeland, the Labour leader a major vote loser for his party in Cumbria.

A crushing Parliamentary by-election defeat cannot fairly be pinned on one person but Corbyn was the albatross around Labour's neck.

Even disciples of the battered leader, a decent man with honest politics, were shaken to discover on doorsteps the depth of hostility fuelled by faltering performances, Labour infighting, unrelenting media criticism.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/two-words-describe-labours-humiliating-9908171

But I guess its Blair who is squarely to blame

[Greg!]

I like Jeremy Corbyn and I think the way he was treated by his MPs made the Party look like a divided shambles, and is probably one of the reasons that they're doing so badly. He needs to resign now though to have any chance of winning the next election, I cba having the tories in power forever more

[Greg!]

Ukip are basically over now though so at least there was a positive to come out of this

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Ukip are basically over now though so at least there was a positive to come out of this

:clap1: :dance:

I was very concerned about UKIP before last night- but if they can't win "Brexit capital" then it doesn't exactly look like they're going to sweep the heartlands with disaffected Labour voters.

[Cal.]

There's literally billboards for UKIP all around Stoke as well lmao poor that!

[Kizzy]

Some people think Blair actually did Corbyn a favour.It seems like he was trying to undermine Corbyn but because everyone hates Blair it did the opposite.

Blair does nobody favours, he's a war criminal who should be by rights locked up.
This isn't new Labour, he couldn't care less if it died on it's arse.
Good, I'm glad it or every other coup has failed.

[Kizzy]

Corbyn said only a few years ago: "No nuclear power, decommission the stations we've got". Not surprising he didn't go down too well in an area so tied up with the nuclear industry

Left wing Labour columnist Kevin Maguire in left wing Labour newspaper:



But I guess its Blair who is squarely to blame

It states in the article that the infighting and the faltering performances the PROVEN media hostility are the reasoning behind the drop in voter confidence, surprisingly it doesn't mention the nuclear sector jobs there.
There's only one thing to blame for the Labour defeat ...The Blairites 'new' (fabian) labour party.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Ukip are basically over now though so at least there was a positive to come out of this

Sure, and labour are flourishing

:laugh2:

[Kizzy]

Yeah... Thanks Copeland, nuclear and the tories a winning combo :thumbs:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/government-meddling-high-energy-prices-electricity-hinkley-lords-report-a7596231.html

[Livia]

Labour will never recover until the Corbynites desist their selfish agenda and realise that he's killing their party. It's once again the noisy minority making the demands and keeping him in place. Life-long Labour supporters are turning away from their party... it's bad for the country. We need a strong opposition and we just don't have one.

[Kizzy]

Labour will never recover until the Corbynites desist their selfish agenda and realise that he's killing their party. It's once again the noisy minority making the demands and keeping him in place. Life-long Labour supporters are turning away from their party... it's bad for the country. We need a strong opposition and we just don't have one.

Not voters then? There was a vote, he won remember?

[AProducer'sWetDream]

Not voters then? There was a vote, he won remember?

Less than a million Labour members. Labour 'voters' up and down the country are turning away in their droves.

[arista]

Less than a million Labour members. Labour 'voters' up and down the country are turning away in their droves.


But because he has had 2 Elections
even Blair-Labour MP's
are not asking for anymore internal elections.

[Livia]

Not voters then? There was a vote, he won remember?

Less than a million Labour members. Labour 'voters' up and down the country are turning away in their droves.

I thought it was clear that the "noisy minority" was the less than a million people who are intent on keeping Corbyn in post while the rest of Labour's support, as QPWD said, are turning away in their droves.

[Greg!]

Sure, and labour are flourishing

:laugh2:

Did I say they were? lol I don't even support them.

Ukip are dying/dead. It's a fact

[Kizzy]

I thought it was clear that the "noisy minority" was the less than a million people who are intent on keeping Corbyn in post while the rest of Labour's support, as QPWD said, are turning away in their droves.

Then why didn't the 'silent majority' vote for another leader?...

[joeysteele]

Labour has lost support, for me Corbyn says what a lot like and think right,however for me the UK as to politics, heeds the minority who are xenophobic,hard hearted and hardline voters.
Who care little really about the NHS or people who are disadvantaged as to opportunity or health in society.

The in fighting in Labour is sad to see and is also a contribution to the party's woes.
It will take either a miracle as to voters waking up to the true rotten ideals of this current Conservative govt. or for their handling of leaving the EU to end up a disastrous mess for Labour to move forward.

That is sad for me to see,any one party state situation in the UK,sadly it is there now in Scotland too at the other end of the political spectrum,with the SNP.

The vast army of non voters is what is now needed to quell that minority hardline, hard hearted and intolerent set of voters.
Otherwise this lot will be there for ages.

A proper PR system may help curb the extremes of this awful govt. and PM.
No chance of that as the Conservatives are the only party who would never ever, support a change to the voting system.
The UK is on a road in politics abhorrent to me and so I am pleased to say personal circumstances and events will see me leave the UK later this year.
Leaving it to sink further into being a more backward Nation,rather than one that should be showing the way on compassion,decency and tolerance.
Instead of being the opposite now of all three.

[Livia]

Then why didn't the 'silent majority' vote for another leader?...

Erm... because you can't have two majorities. And the majority of Labour members voted for Corbyn while Labour voters continue to turn away from the party.

[Kizzy]

Erm... because you can't have two majorities. And the majority of Labour members voted for Corbyn while Labour voters continue to turn away from the party.

Again.... why did the majority voters if they were so disenfranchised vote for a different leader when the opportunity arose?

Let's not get carried away with the turning away, they won Stoke remember, there was only a 6.7% shift in Copeland. The foreshadowing in the media is premature.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/conservatives-victory-over-labour-copeland-by-election-trudy-harrison-gillian-troughton-2017-2

[Livia]

Again.... why did the majority voters if they were so disenfranchised vote for a different leader when the opportunity arose?

Let's not get carried away with the turning away, they won Stoke remember, there was only a 6.7% shift in Copeland. The foreshadowing in the media is premature.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/conservatives-victory-over-labour-copeland-by-election-trudy-harrison-gillian-troughton-2017-2

Because they would have had to have joined the Labour party. And not everyone wants to join a political party.

The denial is almost tangible with Corbyn supporters. Personally, I don't care if he remains leader forever, he will never win a general election, I'm not sure how much more proof you need. Sad for the country though because a strong opposition keeps the government in line.

[Northern Monkey]

Unfortunately if Labour don't sort out their crap they are in danger of fading into irrelevance.They need a new,strong and sensible leader who appeals to the voters and not just the far left protester types.

[parmnion]

I like oatcakes.

:joker:

[Kizzy]

Because they would have had to have joined the Labour party. And not everyone wants to join a political party.

The denial is almost tangible with Corbyn supporters. Personally, I don't care if he remains leader forever, he will never win a general election, I'm not sure how much more proof you need. Sad for the country though because a strong opposition keeps the government in line.

Then they can keep quiet, if they don't wish to vote then they can't complain at the choice of leader can they?

If the Labour party wanted to appeal to their faithful voters then why not scrap the membership fee?
He may not win, that doesn't mean he should be ousted...there is no viable alternative is there?
So yes the denial is tangible, I have hope and faith that there are enough Labour voters who want an end to this current govt, why that means I'm mocked for backing the leader of the party I don't know :/

[MTVN]

Dawn Butler has just sidestepped a question on Copeland on QT by saying "I didn't go to Copeland, I get car sickness and I hear the roads are quite bad there"

Couldn't make it up