UK Government say now is not the time for Indyref2

[jaxie]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39293513

[ebandit]

............let ms fishychops squeal........................

Mark L

[Greg!]

Just proves we're not a "union of equals" then. The democratically elected government of Scotland (with a far higher vote percentage than the tories) denied a referendum and a choice. What a disgrace. It will backfire on her though, support for independence will increase.

[Greg!]

Could you even begin to imagine what the response would have been if the EU blocked the Brexit referendum.

[jaxie]

Just proves we're not a "union of equals" then. The democratically elected government of Scotland (with a far higher vote percentage than the tories) denied a referendum and a choice. What a disgrace

Just proves it's not a good time to run two campaigns at once. :shrug: You have after all already had the referendum and lost the vote.

[Niamh.]

Could you even begin to imagine what the response would have been if the EU blocked the Brexit referendum.

It's quite funny how it's not seen as the same thing tbh :laugh:

[jaxie]

Could you even begin to imagine what the response would have been if the EU blocked the Brexit referendum.

The EU blocked the result of Ireland's referendum on the Lisbon treaty. Already happened.

[jaxie]

It's quite funny how it's not seen as the same thing tbh :laugh:

It's not like she said never, she just said it's not the right time. We were told it wasn't the right time for any votes on Europe for 40 years. I don't see the point really. At least you got a vote on the Lisbon treaty even though it ended as a betrayal.

[Niamh.]

The EU blocked the result of Ireland's referendum on the Lisbon treaty. Already happened.

They didn't block the result, they asked us to vote again and we voted yes the second time (I didn't but ya know)

[Niamh.]

It's not like she said never, she just said it's not the right time. We were told it wasn't the right time for any votes on Europe for 40 years. I don't see the point really. At least you got a vote on the Lisbon treaty even though it ended as a betrayal.

Telling the Scots what they can and can't do......like what you all were pissed at the EU for doing.....same thing

[jaxie]

They didn't block the result, they asked us to vote again and we voted yes the second time (I didn't but ya know)

At least you got a vote, we waited 40 years.

[jaxie]

Telling the Scots what they can and can't do......like what you all were pissed at the EU for doing.....same thing

Saying not now, isn't the same as saying no you can't. The Scots told us it was once in a generation, not once every two years.

[Niamh.]

Saying not now, isn't the same as saying no you can't. The Scots told us it was once in a generation, not once every two years.

That was before you decided to leave the EU and split the 4 countries of the UK in two

[jaxie]

That was before you decided to leave the EU and split the 4 countries of the UK in two

Saying not now, isn't the same as saying no you can't.

With regard to the EU we all had a vote, we voted as a union. No one at any time suggested we were voting on the EU as separate countries or regions.

I live in a Tory borough. My borough always votes for them, I don't, but I doubt I'd have much luck in overturning the government based on that.

[Cherie]

That was before you decided to leave the EU and split the 4 countries of the UK in two

You can't be in the UK and a country in isolation, the Scots voted to stay in 2 years ago, I'd imagine they will get another shot once Brexit is done and dusted, now isn't the time and it's very self serving of Nicola to even try and bring it to the table, no one has time for her whining

[Niamh.]

Saying not now, isn't the same as saying no you can't.

With regard to the EU we all had a vote, we voted as a union. No one at any time suggested we were voting on the EU as separate countries or regions.

I live in a Tory borough. My borough always votes for them, I don't, but I doubt I'd have much luck in overturning the government based on that.

But it should be looked at as separate countries rather than the Union because Northern Ireland is going to be effected probably in the worst way because what are we supposed to do, have border with them again? and if so is that going to start up violence again? We're tiny countries (originally one country) on an island and we can't even trade freely anymore because England and wales said so

[jaxie]

But it should be looked at as separate countries rather than the Union because Northern Ireland is going to be effected probably in the worst way because what are we supposed to do, have border with them again? and if so is that going to start up violence again? We're tiny countries (originally one country) on an island and we can't even trade freely anymore because England and wales said so

But it isn't as separate countries that we went into the referendum. No one ever suggested that it was. The Scots had already voted to stay in the Union, we voted as one nation.

That may be in part because no one thought we would vote to leave but we did.

Now it seems everyone wants to cherry pick.

[Niamh.]

But it isn't as separate countries that we went into the referendum. No one ever suggested that it was. The Scots had already voted to stay in the Union, we voted as one nation.

That may be in part because no one thought we would vote to leave but we did.

Now it seems everyone wants to cherry pick.

hardly, the campaign for the Scots remaining in Britain was "Better together" and this is what the Northern Irish and Scots wanted by staying in the EU too but clearly better together equals better fall in line with what England wants

[arista]

They can have it
Once we are out of the Corrupt EU
in 2019.

OK Greg.

[jaxie]

hardly, the campaign for the Scots remaining in Britain was "Better together" and this is what the Northern Irish and Scots wanted by staying in the EU too but clearly better together equals better fall in line with what England wants

There are plenty of people in both Scotland and Northern Ireland who also wanted to leave the EU.

I'm sorry that some of our neighbours don't like the English much but I don't think that is my problem so much as theirs. I don't bear them any ill will at all. :shrug:

At the time of the Scottish referendum the EU stated that if Scotland left there was no guarantee that they would be able to remain in the EU. That was when Spain first started to make noises over a veto. We aren't dragging the Scots out of the EU in as much as they probably wouldn't be in the EU had they left the UK.

We all had a vote, we voted as one nation and we voted to leave the EU.

Scotland all had a vote, they voted as a country to stay in the Union and be one nation with the rest of us. I can't be any clearer than that. :shrug:

[Niamh.]

There are plenty of people in both Scotland and Northern Ireland who also wanted to leave the EU.

I'm sorry that some of our neighbours don't like the English much but I don't think that is my problem so much as theirs. i don't bear them any ill will at all. :shrug:

At the time of the Scottish referendum the EU stated that if Scotland left there was no guarantee that they would be able to remain in the EU. That was when Spain first started to make noises over a veto. We aren't dragging the Scots out of the EU in as much as they probably wouldn't be in the EU had they left the UK.

We all had a vote, we voted as one nation and we voted to leave the EU.

Scotland all had a vote, they voted as a country to stay in the Union and be one nation with the rest of us. I can't be any clearer than that. :shrug:

I have no idea why the BIB is in your post........

Whether Scotland leave or stay doesn't really effect me much I just think it's quite unfair that them not getting back into the EU as a separate country was used as a threat in the first referendum but then a couple of years later they were dragged out anyway and you won't admit that's a legitimate reason for them to have another referendum :shrug:

Northern Ireland leaving the EU will effect me and my country though

[RichardG]

if i was scottish i would want to know all of the facts as to what being out of the eu will mean before having another vote on independence.

[Cherie]

I have no idea why the BIB is in your post........

Whether Scotland leave or stay doesn't really effect me much I just think it's quite unfair that them not getting back into the EU as a separate country was used as a threat in the first referendum but then a couple of years later they were dragged out anyway and you won't admit that's a legitimate reason for them to have another referendum :shrug:

Northern Ireland leaving the EU will effect me and my country though

The scots leaving won't affect anyone tbh :laugh:

I think they will do some fudge of a deal regarding the border in NI

[Niamh.]

The scots leaving won't affect anyone tbh :laugh:

I think they will do some fudge of a deal regarding the border in NI

They're going to have to, it could have dire consequences if not

[jaxie]

I have no idea why the BIB is in your post........

Whether Scotland leave or stay doesn't really effect me much I just think it's quite unfair that them not getting back into the EU as a separate country was used as a threat in the first referendum but then a couple of years later they were dragged out anyway and you won't admit that's a legitimate reason for them to have another referendum :shrug:

Northern Ireland leaving the EU will effect me and my country though

The threats about the EU were made by the EU for the most part during the Scottish referendum.

Why do I need to admit something? I thought a discussion thread was about discussing our views on a subject, not having to validate others points of view. :shrug: I've never personally said the Scot's shouldn't have another referendum ever and I have no political power to make that decision. Though in my opinion the EU stance is a weak, politically motivated tool for the SNP. Sure I would prefer the union to remain, this is my country, it has always been the union during my lifetime, and the past 300 years, well I'm mildly sentimental and I am interested in history, but do I really personally care if Scotland choose to go? Not losing any sleep over it. Am I interested in the politics of the situation and do I have opinions on it? Sure. Do I think the change is a legitimate reason for another referendum so soon? No not really since the EU said independent Scotland wouldn't have been a member anyway last time round. Still not losing sleep over it.

I'm inclined to agree with May that it's not a good time there will be a lot going on with Brexit so I guess Scotland will have to wait it's turn.

If the EU are now willing to have Scotland with open arms, that isn't going to change if they wait a bit longer to leave the UK and find out. If the EU won't have them that isn't going to change either.

[Northern Monkey]

They can have it
Once we are out of the Corrupt EU
in 2019.

OK Greg.

Seems sensible tbh.2 years.Get all the Brexit stuff out of the way.One thing at once.
Even if the PM said do it whenever it probably would'nt happen until the back end of 2018 anyway.These things take time.

[ebandit]

............let ms fishychops squeal........................

Mark L

gotta remember it's not ALL about her.......................

time to recognise that her fellow scots voted to remain

Mark L

[Northern Monkey]

gotta remember it's not ALL about her.......................

time to recognise that her fellow scots voted to remain

Mark L

Are you talking to yourself?:joker:

[ebandit]

Are you talking to yourself?:joker:

oops! busted......................it's official i'm an embarrassment............

Mark L

[Tom4784]

There should be a referendum for Scotland, it would be scandalous if Parliament tries to block it and it would likely only ensure that Scotland would leave when they eventually get their referendum.

[Marsh.]

Just proves we're not a "union of equals" then. The democratically elected government of Scotland (with a far higher vote percentage than the tories) denied a referendum and a choice. What a disgrace. It will backfire on her though, support for independence will increase.

Denied a choice? They made it. Loud and clear.

Sturgeon ignoring her Scottish people and the choice they wanted and calling a new referendum until she gets her own selfish way?

[Braden]

Roofliss.

[Cherie]

There should be a referendum for Scotland, it would be scandalous if Parliament tries to block it and it would likely only ensure that Scotland would leave when they eventually get their referendum.

So one rule for the Brexit referendum, You have said on many an occasion we made our bed now we must lie on it, but the Scots get a rerun even though they won't know what they are voting for :joker: priceless

[MTVN]

It's quite funny how it's not seen as the same thing tbh :laugh:

Well it's not tbh

[jaxie]

So one rule for the Brexit referendum, You have said on many an occasion we made our bed now we must lie on it, but the Scots get a rerun even though they won't know what they are voting for :joker: priceless

:clap1:

[Tom4784]

So one rule for the Brexit referendum, You have said on many an occasion ion we made our bed now we must lie on it, but the Scots get a rerun even though they won't know what they are voting for :joker: priceless

The situation is completely different, the Scottish referendum was held prior to the EU Ref which pretty much showed the world that Scotland has no say in what happens in the union. The slogans that the 'in' side used 'Better Together' turned out to be 'Better as England's bitch'.

The consequences of leaving the EU were laid bare for all to see for months beforehand yet Leavers chose to make the wrong decision anyway, they deserve what they're gonna get but Scotland didn't vote to remain in the UK to have no say in what happens. I think it's very fair that they get a do-over because the situation has changed, Scotland has been thrust into uncertain waters through no choice of their own, I think NI are entitled to leave if they wish as well.

The EU situation hasn't changed, it was a bad prospect when Leave won and it's still a bad prospect now. To compare it to the Scottish Referendum is rather flawed logic because that situation has changed.

Keep trying, Cherie.

[user104658]

Well it's not tbh
No its not. The level of control that the EU has / had over the day to day running of the UK is MASSIVELY exaggerated by Brexit supporters who would have you believe that the country was effectively being run from Brussels... Which is ridiculous.

Whereas the day to day running of Scotland IS controlled and restricted to a large extent by London.

[Tregard]

"They'd be being asked to make a decision without all the crucial information"

That's never been a problem in the past, Theresa

[the truth]

They can have it
Once we are out of the Corrupt EU
in 2019.

OK Greg.

agreed
the scots voted to remain in the uk , knowing full well a EU referendum was coming the next year or 2 as promised
That means we still have a UK government who have the right to put off a scottish referendum during their time in governance
Another referendum now in the middle of brexit article 50 would be frankly insane and it shows exactly how horrific sturgeon and the SNP are. They dont really give a damn about the UK or the british people , they simply want to succeed on their one and only policy to break up the UK and pick up their euro cheques

[the truth]

No its not. The level of control that the EU has / had over the day to day running of the UK is MASSIVELY exaggerated by Brexit supporters who would have you believe that the country was effectively being run from Brussels... Which is ridiculous.

Whereas the day to day running of Scotland IS controlled and restricted to a large extent by London.

That is all absolutely incorrect and a contradiction too
If you count all EU regulations, EU-related Acts of Parliament, and EU-related Statutory Instruments, about 62% of laws introduced between 1993 and 2014 that apply in the UK implemented EU obligations

[Liberty4eva]

Scotland: too small to be its own country. Too big to be an insane asylum. :hehe:

[Cherie]

The situation is completely different, the Scottish referendum was held prior to the EU Ref which pretty much showed the world that Scotland has no say in what happens in the union. The slogans that the 'in' side used 'Better Together' turned out to be 'Better as England's bitch'.

The consequences of leaving the EU were laid bare for all to see for months beforehand yet Leavers chose to make the wrong decision anyway, they deserve what they're gonna get but Scotland didn't vote to remain in the UK to have no say in what happens. I think it's very fair that they get a do-over because the situation has changed, Scotland has been thrust into uncertain waters through no choice of their own, I think NI are entitled to leave if they wish as well.

The EU situation hasn't changed, it was a bad prospect when Leave won and it's still a bad prospect now. To compare it to the Scottish Referendum is rather flawed logic because that situation has changed.

Keep trying, Cherie.

The situation hasn't changed in Scotland, there was never any misunderstanding that they were voting to stay in the U.K. and that any future decisions would be taken by the UK as a whole, yes the referendum was based on lies and misinformation from both sides, the EU vote was based on lies and misinformation from both sides, yet you only champion a Scottish rerun :think: and you want NI to go it alone when the two main parties can't even agree on power sharing most of the time, :facepalm: you have no logic at all

[Cherie]

agreed
the scots voted to remain in the uk , knowing full well a EU referendum was coming the next year or 2 as promised
That means we still have a UK government who have the right to put off a scottish referendum during their time in governance
Another referendum now in the middle of brexit article 50 would be frankly insane and it shows exactly how horrific sturgeon and the SNP are. They dont really give a damn about the UK or the british people , they simply want to succeed on their one and only policy to break up the UK and pick up their euro cheques

:clap1:

[Cherie]

"They'd be being asked to make a decision without all the crucial information"

That's never been a problem in the past, Theresa

True

[Cherie]

Can London stay in the EU as we voted in as well? How's that for flawed logic

[Josy]

Telling the Scots what they can and can't do......like what you all were pissed at the EU for doing.....same thing

Tbf though as long as theres a government theres always going to be someone telling the people what to do whether that country is independent or not, SNP were told that the last referendum was a once in a generation vote, Scotland knew this and voted to stay in the union, Nicola and the rest of the SNP should be respecting that vote but they never will because independence has been the sole point of the party since the beginning, the divide in this country has only just began to heal since the last ref and now it's started again. IMO the PM is right, this isn't the time, not until we all find out whats going on and going to happen after bexit.

[arista]

"now it's started again."

Yes and Scotland
can have a 2nd vote after the UK
is fully out of the EU.
Not before.

[user104658]

I suppose doing it after brexit is done and dusted isn't a terrible idea. If it really is the "great British promised land" then we can stay... And if it's as **** as any unbiased economist thinks it will be then we'll be desperate to leave and "out" will win by a landslide :joker:. Not a terrible scenario, I guess. In truth I don't think enough has changed yet for the voting percentages to be much different; I think there would be a small shift but it would only be maybe 53% to 47% (remain in UK still winning). After Brexit, when the UK is floundering and Scotland (and the north of England) is being thrown under the bus as London closes ranks to protect itself, people might actually wake up and realise where they sit in the Tory / Westminster pecking order.

[jaxie]

I suppose doing it after brexit is done and dusted isn't a terrible idea. If it really is the "great British promised land" then we can stay... And if it's as **** as any unbiased economist thinks it will be then we'll be desperate to leave and "out" will win by a landslide :joker:. Not a terrible scenario, I guess. In truth I don't think enough has changed yet for the voting percentages to be much different; I think there would be a small shift but it would only be maybe 53% to 47% (remain in UK still winning). After Brexit, when the UK is floundering and Scotland (and the north of England) is being thrown under the bus as London closes ranks to protect itself, people might actually wake up and realise where they sit in the Tory / Westminster pecking order.

How convenient that all the unbiased economists are opposed to Brexit and apparently predict gloom and doom. Do you know them all personally TS? :hee:

[Brillopad]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-39293513

The PM is right. This not the time. They had a referendum not long ago and many Scott's don't want it.

Sturgeon is trying to take advantage of Brexit hoping that any hostility against Brexit will emerge with a vote in favour of Scottish independence. She is nothing if not totally transparent.

[Tom4784]

The situation hasn't changed in Scotland, there was never any misunderstanding that they were voting to stay in the U.K. and that any future decisions would be taken by the UK as a whole, yes the referendum was based on lies and misinformation from both sides, the EU vote was based on lies and misinformation from both sides, yet you only champion a Scottish rerun :think: and you want NI to go it alone when the two main parties can't even agree on power sharing most of the time, :facepalm: you have no logic at all

Of course the situation has changed, Brexit did not win by a majority. if the other three countries voted to leave then fair enough but in terms of countries it was split right down the middle and it was England's vote that swayed it.

Why should we expect Scotland to to stay with us when there's obviously an imbalance of influence in an union in which each country should be equal? Like Niamh said, it's utterly hypocritical to make Scotland stay when the Brexit supporters apparently voted to leave because they didn't want to live under EU 'rule' anymore (It was immigration, let's be real.). It's the same situation.

I don't support an EU rerun because it was obvious to anyone that wasn't wilfully ignorant what was going to happen if Leave won. People who make bad decisions deserve to face the consequences but the result of Scotland Ref, at the time, wasn't a bad decision. It was the only decision really but that decision has turned sour through no fault of Scotland's which I believe means they should get another shot at deciding whether or not they want independence. If they stay then they face the consequences with eyes open like the rest of us.

[Vicky.]

Tbf though as long as theres a government theres always going to be someone telling the people what to do whether that country is independent or not, SNP were told that the last referendum was a once in a generation vote, Scotland knew this and voted to stay in the union, Nicola and the rest of the SNP should be respecting that vote but they never will because independence has been the sole point of the party since the beginning, the divide in this country has only just began to heal since the last ref and now it's started again. IMO the PM is right, this isn't the time, not until we all find out whats going on and going to happen after bexit.

Indeed.

[Tom4784]

Can London stay in the EU as we voted in as well? How's that for flawed logic

You see, Cherie. London is a city where as Scotland is a country. Do I REALLY have to explain the differences to you between the two and why a city becoming independent is a world apart than a country?

[Cherie]

Of course the situation has changed, Brexit did not win by a majority. if the other three countries voted to leave then fair enough but in terms of countries it was split right down the middle and it was England's vote that swayed it.

Why should we expect Scotland to to stay with us when there's obviously an imbalance of influence in an union in which each country should be equal? Like Niamh said, it's utterly hypocritical to make Scotland stay when the Brexit supporters apparently voted to leave because they didn't want to live under EU 'rule' anymore (It was immigration, let's be real.). It's the same situation.

I don't support an EU rerun because it was obvious to anyone that wasn't wilfully ignorant what was going to happen if Leave won. People who make bad decisions deserve to face the consequences but the result of Scotland Ref, at the time, wasn't a bad decision. It was the only decision really but that decision has turned sour through no fault of Scotland's which I believe means they should get another shot at deciding whether or not they want independence. If they stay then they face the consequences with eyes open like the rest of us.

They will have their referendum just not while the Brexit deal is going through like selfish Nicola wants, they are out of the EU for the foreseeable whether they have a referendum or not as it will take time to get back in that is if the EU will take them. Let's be real this isn't about the EU for Scotland either it just an opportunity to have another referendum,keep asking the question you will get the answer you want in the end.

[Vicky.]

They will have their referendum just not while the Brexit deal is going through like selfish Nicola wants, they are out of the EU for the foreseeable whether they have a referendum or not as it will take time to get back in that is if the EU will take them. Let's be real this isn't about the EU for Scotland either it just an opportunity to have another referendum,keep asking the question you will get the answer you want in the end.

Yeah I do think the Eu is being used as an excuse. Bet Sturgeon was over the moon when the leave vote came through...there might not have been another excuse for a while. Next one would probably have been at the general election when tories are voted in again.

[Cherie]

[QUOTE=Dezzy;9252805]You see, Cherie. London is a city where as Scotland is a country. Do I REALLY have to explain the differences to you between the two and why a city becoming independent is a world apart than a country?



[/The capital was shown to be monumentaly out-of-step wit the rest of Britain after largely voting Remain while the nation voted to Leave the EU.

But today the disconnect was heightened further as London's army of Bremain-backing resident called on the city's new mayor Sadiq Khan, to declare Greater London and its nine

million population an independent state.

Breakaway campaigners then want London to join Scotland in a new referendum which would allow them to re-join the EU.

So far, nearly 65,000 people have signed a petition asking Labour's Mr Khan "to declare London independent, and apply to join the EU".

It goes on to ask Mr Khan to "make the divorce official and move in with our friends on the continent".

[Brillopad]

Of course the situation has changed, Brexit did not win by a majority. if the other three countries voted to leave then fair enough but in terms of countries it was split right down the middle and it was England's vote that swayed it.

Why should we expect Scotland to to stay with us when there's obviously an imbalance of influence in an union in which each country should be equal? Like Niamh said, it's utterly hypocritical to make Scotland stay when the Brexit supporters apparently voted to leave because they didn't want to live under EU 'rule' anymore (It was immigration, let's be real.). It's the same situation.

I don't support an EU rerun because it was obvious to anyone that wasn't wilfully ignorant what was going to happen if Leave won. People who make bad decisions deserve to face the consequences but the result of Scotland Ref, at the time, wasn't a bad decision. It was the only decision really but that decision has turned sour through no fault of Scotland's which I believe means they should get another shot at deciding whether or not they want independence. If they stay then they face the consequences with eyes open like the rest of us.

Sturgeon doesn't give a damn about Scotland only getting what she wants.

[Kizzy]

Sturgeon doesn't give a damn about Scotland only getting what she wants.

And may wants to keep her tartan bargaining chip to tout at the WTO.

[Scarlett.]

Brexiteers getting up in arms about a union between countries possibly ending?

https://media.giphy.com/media/Vsl4fGedmYFRC/giphy.gif

[Northern Monkey]

'An independent Scotland would have to join the back of the queue if it wanted to rejoin the E U, the Spanish foreign minister has said.

Responding to Monday’s announcement from Scotland’s first minister, Nicola Sturgeon, that she intends to hold a second independence referendum , Alfonso Dastis said Spain was opposed to the fracturing of the UK.'

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/mar/14/spain-independent-scotland-would-be-at-the-back-of-eu-queue

[jaxie]

And may wants to keep her tartan bargaining chip to tout at the WTO.

I can't imagine why you would think the government would need Scotland as a bargaining chip with the WTO. Where do you get these ideas? :shrug:

[Kizzy]

I can't imagine why you would think the government would need Scotland as a bargaining chip with the WTO. Where do you get these ideas? :shrug:

It stands to reason unless you think that of the United Kingdoms one of those kingdoms has nothing to trade :shrug:

I get my ideas from my brain, where do you get yours... jaxie?

[jaxie]

Of course the situation has changed, Brexit did not win by a majority. if the other three countries voted to leave then fair enough but in terms of countries it was split right down the middle and it was England's vote that swayed it.

Why should we expect Scotland to to stay with us when there's obviously an imbalance of influence in an union in which each country should be equal? Like Niamh said, it's utterly hypocritical to make Scotland stay when the Brexit supporters apparently voted to leave because they didn't want to live under EU 'rule' anymore (It was immigration, let's be real.). It's the same situation.

I don't support an EU rerun because it was obvious to anyone that wasn't wilfully ignorant what was going to happen if Leave won. People who make bad decisions deserve to face the consequences but the result of Scotland Ref, at the time, wasn't a bad decision. It was the only decision really but that decision has turned sour through no fault of Scotland's which I believe means they should get another shot at deciding whether or not they want independence. If they stay then they face the consequences with eyes open like the rest of us.

Scotland voted to remain in the union knowing full well the union was set to vote on the EU. Scotland voted in the EU referendum as part of the union, not as a separate country. I don't see why that is hard to understand. :shrug:

[Brillopad]

It stands to reason unless you think that of the United Kingdoms one of those kingdoms has nothing to trade :shrug:

I get my ideas from my brain, where do you get yours... jaxie?

No offence but I sometimes wonder as it does come across sometimes that if some said the world was round you would disagree for the sake of disagreeing. I may be wrong but to me it comes across that way on occasion.

[jaxie]

No offence but I sometimes wonder as it does come across sometimes that if some said the world was round you would disagree for the sake of disagreeing. I may be wrong but to me it comes across that way on occasion.

:laugh: I feel the same way.

[Kizzy]

Is this why you came into the thread, to disagree with my stance ladies?... :laugh:

[Niamh.]

The world is square and that's the end of it

[jaxie]

Is this why you came into the thread, to disagree with my stance ladies?... :laugh:

Why else?

[Cherie]

Brexiteers getting up in arms about a union between countries possibly ending?

https://media.giphy.com/media/Vsl4fGedmYFRC/giphy.gif

Not at all first I didn't vote for Brexit, I am happy for a 2nd ref to take place just not at the time Nicola wants its, once the deal is done or not done or however it turns out, Nicola can have it after that

[Northern Monkey]

Not at all first I didn't vote for Brexit, I am happy for a 2nd ref to take place just not at the time Nicola wants its, once the deal is done or not done or however it turns out, Nicola can have it after that

This for Me too.

[Kizzy]

The world is square and that's the end of it

I'd say more oblong.... :fan:

[Northern Monkey]

The world is square and that's the end of it

I think you'll find that it is infact actually an oblate ellipsoid in actual fact

[Brillopad]

I'd say more oblong.... :fan:

Maybe I'm being unfair, maybe some brains are square or oblong. :laugh:

[Tom4784]

They will have their referendum just not while the Brexit deal is going through like selfish Nicola wants, they are out of the EU for the foreseeable whether they have a referendum or not as it will take time to get back in that is if the EU will take them. Let's be real this isn't about the EU for Scotland either it just an opportunity to have another referendum,keep asking the question you will get the answer you want in the end.

I don't care about Sturgeon's motives, she's a toad.

I just think that Scotland has the grounds to demand another referendum as does NI if they want to rejoin Ireland or go it alone. Like I said before, if they decide to stay then they face the carnage with the rest of us but we can't force them to stay by denying a referendum. We could very well be forcing their hand if we make them wait.

Scotland wouldn't leave if there was another Ref now. It would be better to do the vote ASAP and get it out the way then allow the embitterment and resentment to grow and cause Scotland to break away when we're in a sensitive position post brexit.

Better to go through Brexit knowing that we stand united.

[user104658]

You know, I do find it odd how against a Scottish Indy ref English people seem to be. I mean... You don't live here and therefore aren't affected by it directly... And APPARENTLY Scotland is nothing but a drain on UK funds being propped up by the English taxpayer... So why so against it? Why are you so bothered by it?

Is it simply because you find the notion that a large chunk of Scottish people don't want to be a part of Precious Britain offensive? Is it a "How dare you!" thing?

[Cherie]

You know, I do find it odd how against a Scottish Indy ref English people seem to be. I mean... You don't live here and therefore aren't affected by it directly... And APPARENTLY Scotland is nothing but a drain on UK funds being propped up by the English taxpayer... So why so against it? Why are you so bothered by it?

Is it simply because you find the notion that a large chunk of Scottish people don't want to be a part of Precious Britain offensive? Is it a "How dare you!" thing?


Unfortunately you have misread the situation, happy for you to have it, just don't want it to be a distraction during the Brexit it talks, better together once we don't suffer because of your antics :hehe:

[user104658]

Scotland wouldn't leave if there was another Ref now. It would be better to do the vote ASAP and get it out the way.

I sort of agree but then, on the other hand, this was Camerosborne's exact thinking with the Brexit referendum [emoji23]. That's why there was no plan for it and its all such a colossal mess. They were absolutely positive that it wouldn't be "leave" so they called it to get it out of the way and move on... Wups. We know how that turned out.

[Cherie]

I don't care about Sturgeon's motives, she's a toad.

I just think that Scotland has the grounds to demand another referendum as does NI if they want to rejoin Ireland or go it alone. Like I said before, if they decide to stay then they face the carnage with the rest of us but we can't force them to stay by denying a referendum. We could very well be forcing their hand if we make them wait.

Scotland wouldn't leave if there was another Ref now. It would be better to do the vote ASAP and get it out the way then allow the embitterment and resentment to grow and cause Scotland to break away when we're in a sensitive position post brexit.

Better to go through Brexit knowing that we stand united.

That's a good point I guess, the problem is the getting the timing right so it doesn't distract from the Brexit Deal or No Deal

[user104658]

Unfortunately you have misread the situation, happy for you to have it, just don't want it to be a distraction during the Brexit it talks, better together once we don't suffer because of your antics :hehe:
Ohhh so you want to keep hold of your vassal until you can secure a better deal for yourselves, and then it doesn't matter any more, even if it's detrimental to Scotland to wait until after full Brexit to break away. Gotcha.

[Cherie]

Ohhh so you want to keep hold of your vassal until you can secure a better deal for yourselves, and then it doesn't matter any more, even if it's detrimental to Scotland to wait until after full Brexit to break away. Gotcha.

I want the best deal for the UK, once that is done you can stay or you can go, it makes no odds to the majority of people south of the border

[Brillopad]

The situation is completely different, the Scottish referendum was held prior to the EU Ref which pretty much showed the world that Scotland has no say in what happens in the union. The slogans that the 'in' side used 'Better Together' turned out to be 'Better as England's bitch'.

The consequences of leaving the EU were laid bare for all to see for months beforehand yet Leavers chose to make the wrong decision anyway, they deserve what they're gonna get but Scotland didn't vote to remain in the UK to have no say in what happens. I think it's very fair that they get a do-over because the situation has changed, Scotland has been thrust into uncertain waters through no choice of their own, I think NI are entitled to leave if they wish as well.

The EU situation hasn't changed, it was a bad prospect when Leave won and it's still a bad prospect now. To compare it to the Scottish Referendum is rather flawed logic because that situation has changed.

Keep trying, Cherie.

It's only a bad prospect if you believe that. The consequences of Brexit are an unknown quantity not a foregone conclusion so let's remember your opinion on this is opinion, not fact. Keep trying.

[Tom4784]

[QUOTE=Dezzy;9252805]You see, Cherie. London is a city where as Scotland is a country. Do I REALLY have to explain the differences to you between the two and why a city becoming independent is a world apart than a country?



[/The capital was shown to be monumentaly out-of-step wit the rest of Britain after largely voting Remain while the nation voted to Leave the EU.

But today the disconnect was heightened further as London's army of Bremain-backing resident called on the city's new mayor Sadiq Khan, to declare Greater London and its nine

million population an independent state.

Breakaway campaigners then want London to join Scotland in a new referendum which would allow them to re-join the EU.

So far, nearly 65,000 people have signed a petition asking Labour's Mr Khan "to declare London independent, and apply to join the EU".

It goes on to ask Mr Khan to "make the divorce official and move in with our friends on the continent".

It doesn't change the fact that it's a city and a city seeking and gaining independence from a country is a whole other kettle of fish to a country seeking independence from a union.

[user104658]

I want the best deal for the UK, once that is done you can stay or you can go, it makes no odds to the majority of people south of the border
Why would this be of concern to anyone in Scotland who wants Scottish independence? Get your own deal on your own merits, stop exploiting other countries to prop yourself up. I know that's hard for a nation rooted in empire but still. Try.

[user104658]

It doesn't change the fact that it's a city and a city seeking and gaining independence from a country is a whole other kettle of fish to a country seeking independence from a union.

All the London comparisons really do is confirm that certain people in England see Scotland simply as a region of England, and not a separate country.

[jaxie]

You know, I do find it odd how against a Scottish Indy ref English people seem to be. I mean... You don't live here and therefore aren't affected by it directly... And APPARENTLY Scotland is nothing but a drain on UK funds being propped up by the English taxpayer... So why so against it? Why are you so bothered by it?

Is it simply because you find the notion that a large chunk of Scottish people don't want to be a part of Precious Britain offensive? Is it a "How dare you!" thing?

We're like cats, it's ours. But seriously, I've always thought of Scotland as part of our country, it seems bizarre to think otherwise. I also have Scottish rellies and they don't want to be independent. They are pretty sick and tired of the whole issue. However if the majority of Scottish people and not just the SNP want another referendum at some point they should have one. This is definitely not the time to give it due and appropriate attention.

[jaxie]

Why would this be of concern to anyone in Scotland who wants Scottish independence? Get your own deal on your own merits, stop exploiting other countries to prop yourself up. I know that's hard for a nation rooted in empire but still. Try.

Your prejudice is showing again.

[user104658]

Your prejudice is showing again.
Look up prejudice.

[user104658]

All the London comparisons really do is confirm that certain people in England see Scotland simply as a region of England, and not a separate country.


But seriously, I've always thought of Scotland as part of our country, it seems bizarre to think otherwise.

Oh look, there we go.

[jaxie]

Oh look, there we go.

I can't help it that you don't think of the union as one nation, but that's more or less where we have been at for 300 years.

I've been kind of shocked by the anti English hate from apparent Scots on the net. I never thought of it as being that way.

[user104658]

I can't help it that you don't think of the union as one nation, but that's more or less where we have been at for 300 years.

I've been kind of shocked by the anti English hate from apparent Scots on the net. I never thought of it as being that way.
There is no anti English hate from me. My wife is English. I am in England at this very second. I have nothing, at all, against English people.

I am against Westminster rule of Scotland and against the idea that Scotland is owned by, or part of, England. I think it is detrimental to Scotland and to Scottish people.

Read through this thread again and tell me that there isn't a strong anti-Scottish sentiment from several English members :facepalm:.

[jaxie]

There is no anti English hate from me. My wife is English. I am in England at this very second. I have nothing, at all, against English people.

I am against Westminster rule of Scotland and against the idea that Scotland is owned by, or part of, England. I think it is detrimental to Scotland and to Scottish people.

Read through this thread again and tell me that there isn't a strong anti-Scottish sentiment from several English members :facepalm:.

Scotland is part of the Union. You are mistaking England for the only country in the union but the union does make us one nation.

I've seen a lot worse said about the English by Scots than vice versa and you keep saying your wife is English and then making sweeping negative statements about the English.

I'm pro union but I'd be very surprised if you can find a post by me making generalised statements calling Scottish people names.

[Kizzy]

There is no anti English hate from me. My wife is English. I am in England at this very second. I have nothing, at all, against English people.

I am against Westminster rule of Scotland and against the idea that Scotland is owned by, or part of, England. I think it is detrimental to Scotland and to Scottish people.

Read through this thread again and tell me that there isn't a strong anti-Scottish sentiment from several English members :facepalm:.

:clap1: :clap1: :clap1:

[Vicky.]

There is no anti English hate from me. My wife is English. I am in England at this very second. I have nothing, at all, against English people.

I am against Westminster rule of Scotland and against the idea that Scotland is owned by, or part of, England. I think it is detrimental to Scotland and to Scottish people.

Read through this thread again and tell me that there isn't a strong anti-Scottish sentiment from several English members :facepalm:.

I am against Westminster rule of anywhere tbh. I wish there was a way for each County 'rule' its people. Delegate cash per head or something and then each area makes up its own 'rules. The way things are, it seems only London and the rich actually matter...

[Cherie]

Why would this be of concern to anyone in Scotland who wants Scottish independence? Get your own deal on your own merits, stop exploiting other countries to prop yourself up. I know that's hard for a nation rooted in empire but still. Try.

Unfortunately for you, your fellow Scots chose to remain in the Union, if you wanted another referendum, maybe it should have been called for in July 2016, it could have all been done and dusted by now, instead your leader waits quite cynically until the 11th hour and now that we are about to trigger Article 50 calls for an independence ref, its just not on, its selfish, self serving and shows all she cares about is herself and her place in history. We can get a deal on our own merits but two major deals like this cannot be made at the same time, its unrealistic.

[Cherie]

The only anti Scottish sentiment on this thread is in reference to the timing of the SNPs call for a second referendum and for anyone in Scotland who thinks this is a great idea to have a ref in the middle of Brexit, it shows a crass disrespect for the rest of the union, from what I have seen its pretty 50/50 on the forum from the Scottish members as to those that want one and those that don't, your country is about to be divided again, well done Nicola

[user104658]

My apologies; most of it is on the other thread.



They will just become a poor country they will have no income anywhere



...think of all the engleeesh whom
would vote the scots ooot?




the EU wont give you the money the UK does.




Scotland needs to go.

the English should just vote them out of the union.

It is time to trim the fat!



Scotland should be given an ultimatum, leave the union or lose all sovereignty.

Hopefully that will be enough to make them leave, and we wont have to deal with them anymore.



The scots leaving won't affect anyone tbh [emoji23]




do I really personally care if Scotland choose to go? Not losing any sleep over it.



Scotland: too small to be its own country. Too big to be an insane asylum. :hehe:

I only made it about 1/4 of the way through. There's plenty of other examples that basically describe Scotland as a joke country that relies on England to survive, though. Feel free to brush up :idc:.

[jaxie]

You are seriously clutching if you think some of what you quoted there is anti Scottish. I agree some of it is rude but I've seen you be just as rude TS.

I am sorry if you think that my not losing sleep should Scotland choose to go is offensive. I could always set up an alarm one night if it helps. Far be it from me to sleep well if someone else makes a decision to leave. :shrug:

[Niamh.]

My apologies; most of it is on the other thread.

































I only made it about 1/4 of the way through. There's plenty of other examples that basically describe Scotland as a joke country that relies on England to survive, though. Feel free to brush up :idc:.
In regards to the last post you quoted Scotland is a similar size to us and we're fine :idc:

Out of interest TS what does your wife think about it?

[user104658]

In regards to the last post you quoted Scotland is a similar size to us and we're fine :idc:

Out of interest TS what does your wife think about it?
She's even more pro-indy than I am, both this time and last time :joker:. She had a lifelong ambition to live in Scotland though. I wonder if I should start questioning her motivations for marriage :think:...

[Niamh.]

She's even more pro-indy than I am, both this time and last time :joker:. She had a lifelong ambition to live in Scotland though. I wonder if I should start questioning her motivations for marriage :think:...
:laugh2: the accent probably

[user104658]

You are seriously clutching if you think some of what you quoted there is anti Scottish. I agree some of it is rude but I've seen you be just as rude TS.

I am sorry if you think that my not losing sleep should Scotland choose to go is offensive. I could always set up an alarm one night if it helps. Far be it from me to sleep well if someone else makes a decision to leave. :shrug:
I obviously wouldn't expect you to lose sleep, nor do I expect anyone to care about it if they're not inclined to, but specifically going out if your way to say so is quite clearly a pointed comment. Let's not play games, it's tedious.

[user104658]

:laugh2: the accent probably
DgTK_xJK_hg

Worked like a charm for me :shrug:. Dunno where he went wrong.

[Kizzy]

Aw I bet you were like that lad in 'Gregorys girl' :joker:

[user104658]

Aw I bet you were like that lad in 'Gregorys girl' :joker:
... ... ... Gregory? :joker:

[Niamh.]

:laugh2:

[jaxie]

I obviously wouldn't expect you to lose sleep, nor do I expect anyone to care about it if they're not inclined to, but specifically going out if your way to say so is quite clearly a pointed comment. Let's not play games, it's tedious.

Well you are taking the comment out of context anyway. I was responding at the time implications that it mattered to me in some way beyond the expression of opinions.

You keep talking about games and agendas. I am someone posting in a discussion forum. What on Earth would I have to gain from games or agendas in those circumstances. All the accusations are pretty tedious.

[Cherie]

My apologies; most of it is on the other thread.






























I only made it about 1/4 of the way through. There's plenty of other examples that basically describe Scotland as a joke country that relies on England to survive, though. Feel free to brush up :idc:.

:joker: you are taking things way too literally, we can't live without your shortbread and haggis ..well maybe we can do without the haggis :umm2: but Christmas without a tin of shortbread :nono:

[Kizzy]

... ... ... Gregory? :joker:

Er yeah... I think that was his name :hehe: