Theresa May live ...

[Kizzy]

****.... what's happening?

Theresa May is due to make an announcement outside Downing Street at 11.15am.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-announcement-live-updates-latest-general-election-resign-syria-military-health-uk-prime-a7688361.html

[MTVN]

Very weird, could well be a snap election. Can't think what else it'd be

[Ronald.]

The queen is not dead is she? R.

[Braden]

I will be tuning in.

I don't think it'll be to do with a snap election though.

[Cherie]

I hope we are not getting involved with North Korea :umm2:

[DemolitionRed]

I think its likely to be a snap election but it could be about the queen.

[Ronald.]

Is it gonna be on bbc1? Or do we just follow online? R.

[Kizzy]

Fingers crossed for an election, but why risk the fluctuation in the markets that comes with a 'big announcement' :/

[Livia]

Very weird, could well be a snap election. Can't think what else it'd be

That's my thinking. People are working on the County elections, the last thing they need is a snap general election... SOOO glad I'm not involved with that anymore.

[user104658]

Fingers crossed for an election, but why risk the fluctuation in the markets that comes with a 'big announcement' :/

I wouldn't cross your fingers for an election Kizzter, as things stand right now it'll only increase the Conservative majority. Though could be interesting for Scotland as, if it shows increased SNP support, that would be an indication that a referendum is indeed justified. Then again if it shows a drop in support it would go the other way. Not that that would matter... as a drop in support would indicate that it would still be "no" anyway... hmmm.


However it's probably to say that we're gon' nuke Syria.

[MTVN]

Other possibilities are that direct rule will be returning to Northern Ireland or that a date has been agreed for a Scottish referendum

[Cherie]

Other possibilities are that direct rule will be returning to Northern Ireland or that a date has been agreed for a Scottish referendum

could be direct rule, did they ever sort themselves out? it all went very quite after the extension was given

[Ronald.]

I imagine it will be a snap election. R.

[Cherie]

unconfirmed source saying its a General Election..oh great

[arista]

live now

[Braden]

Snap-election. Interesting, I didn't think May would want to do this so soon (I'm presuming it's primarily her decision).

At least those who's complained about brexit and the need for a snap-election will get what they want, though I doubt it's actually what they need.

[Kizzy]

thank feck lol


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-announcement-live-updates-latest-general-election-resign-syria-military-health-uk-prime-a7688361.html

[Livia]

Perfect time for the Tories, they'd have been daft not to.

[Brillopad]

Good! We need it all official and then we can get on with things.

[Cherie]

should be interesting and close, if all those who didn't vote in the referendum and moaned at the result get off their arse that is.

[Ronald.]

I'll tell you what, I couldn't stop laughing at her hair! Blowing all over the place. R.

[Rob!]

Win-win for her I suspect.

If she wins, she's got the backing of the public behind her, if she loses then she gets out of having to sort out the mess that is Brexit.

So, and don't jump on me for being a remoaner, does this mean there's still a chance Brexit won't happen?

[MTVN]

It's going to be a disaster for Labour but they'll be a lot of nervous Tory MPs in Remain areas particularly in the south west. Lib Dems will be most happy

[Niamh.]

Win-win for her I suspect.

If she wins, she's got the backing of the public behind her, if she loses then she gets out of having to sort out the mess that is Brexit.

So, and don't jump on me for being a remoaner, does this mean there's still a chance Brexit won't happen?

It's all been signed off now, hasn't it? Article 50 triggered and all that malarkey

[Braden]

:joker: at the BBC correspondent screaming "ARE YOU LOOKING FORWARD TO AN EARLY ELECTION?!" to Tory members as they come out of Downing Street.

[Rob!]

It's all been signed off now, hasn't it? Article 50 triggered and all that malarkey

I don't know. If not, guarantee it'll be all the Lib Dems and Labour claim they'll do. I don't think it's a clear cut result at all. Should be interesting.

[Braden]

What are the chances of Labour-support to increase? The margin is quite significant, but could this become a Remain vs. Leave situation again?

I agree that this could become quite interesting, but my gut is saying that not much will change.

[Cherie]

It's all been signed off now, hasn't it? Article 50 triggered and all that malarkey


The Lib Dems have been calling for a referendum on "the deal" which would be a way out I guess

[Niamh.]

The Lib Dems have been calling for a referendum on "the deal" which would be a way out I guess

Oh right, it rolls on and on :laugh:

[Ronald.]

I imagine a lot of the remain vote will be split between Labour and Lib Dems. Will be very interesting to see how this rolls out. Especially the tv debates I love those. They will be fascinating to watch. R.

[Livia]

From BBC News...

The PM says the country is coming together, but Westminster remains divided.

"In recent weeks Labour have threatened to vote against the final agreement we reach with the European Union.

"The Liberal Democrats said they want to grind the business of government to a standstill.

"The Scottish National Party say they will vote against the legislation that formally repeals Britain's membership of the European Union.

"And un-elected members of the House of Lords have vowed to fight us every step of the way.

"If we do not hold a general election now, their political game playing will continue."

[Brillopad]

Win-win for her I suspect.

If she wins, she's got the backing of the public behind her, if she loses then she gets out of having to sort out the mess that is Brexit.

So, and don't jump on me for being a remoaner, does this mean there's still a chance Brexit won't happen?

Nope.

[Withano]

I read that in a way that would suggest that Theresa may or may not die so many times

[Will.]

Would there be a vote in 2020 still?

[Ronald.]

Would there be a vote in 2020 still?

No i believe the five year term would start from the result. R.

[Ronald.]

I read that in a way that would suggest that Theresa may or may not die so many times

I keep reading it as live as in live in concert ha ha. R.

[Withano]

The Lib Dems have been calling for a referendum on "the deal" which would be a way out I guess

As in a vote after we find out what trade circumstances we get? Thats a good idea

[Will.]

No i believe the five year term would start from the result. R.

Oh okay! Thanks.

[Ronald.]

I think Lib Dems will get a much needed boost. I think it's labour who will suffer. R.

[Ronald.]

I'm on the fence with this one. I think Theresa is the strongest leader but I'm not a tory. Don't think Corbyn is all that good and i'm not sure i have much confidence in the Lib Dems either. I imagine a lot of on the fence voters will stick with Theresa and see how things play out. That said, I haven't made my mind up yet. R.

[Rob!]

I think Lib Dems will get a much needed boost. I think it's labour who will suffer. R.

I don't think the Lib Dems have a cat in hells chance sadly.

[Ronald.]

I don't think the Lib Dems have a cat in hells chance sadly.

Oh me neither but better than usual I think, I imagine they'll pick up a few remainer votes if they go on about it enough in the debates. R.

[jaxie]

I rather admire Teresa's style. Nice counter move. I wonder what will happen in Scotland! Politics is fascinating!

[Kizzy]

It's very strange Corbyns policies have recently been found to have massive support, but then when asked 'do you like Corbyn'? the answer is no.... :/
It makes no sense, unless you take into consideration the negative press he receives, which you would have to have been living under a rock not to have acknowledged, there are university studies on the topic.

[jaxie]

It's very strange Corbyns policies have recently been found to have massive support, but then when asked 'do you like Corbyn'? the answer is no.... :/
It makes no sense, unless you take into consideration the negative press he receives, which you would have to have been living under a rock not to have acknowledged, there are university studies on the topic.

What policies? :laugh:

Just imagine if Labour win Corbyn might give himself powers that mean he can never been ousted and will be in the job when he has his zimmer! It's Erdogan all over again!

[DemolitionRed]

There are also Local Elections in England in May which might give some sort of indication of trends.

[Withano]

I rather admire Teresa's style. Nice counter move. I wonder what will happen in Scotland! Politics is fascinating!

I dont mind May. She comes off intelligent and hard-working, which is more that can be said for most of the rest of the party.

[smudgie]

From BBC News...

The PM says the country is coming together, but Westminster remains divided.

"In recent weeks Labour have threatened to vote against the final agreement we reach with the European Union.

"The Liberal Democrats said they want to grind the business of government to a standstill.

"The Scottish National Party say they will vote against the legislation that formally repeals Britain's membership of the European Union.

"And un-elected members of the House of Lords have vowed to fight us every step of the way.

"If we do not hold a general election now, their political game playing will continue."

Great speech.
She has hit the nail on the head, hopefully this will give her a better chance of getting what we need from Brexit.
Should be an interesting election, more for the Labour Party.

[Kizzy]

What policies? :laugh:

Just imagine if Labour win Corbyn might give himself powers that mean he can never been ousted and will be in the job when he has his zimmer! It's Erdogan all over again!

That's it you just stay rational :pat:

[jaxie]

I dont mind May. She comes off intelligent and hard-working, which is more that can be said for most of the rest of the party.

She does actually and she doesn't rub me the wrong way as a lot of politicians do. What I can't abide is the female politician who talk in that whiny patronising voice they probably think sounds understanding. Anna Soubry and Diane Abbott to name the two worse offenders. It's almost as if they are trying to do a Thatcher impersonation.

[Ronald.]

I dont mind May. She comes off intelligent and hard-working, which is more that can be said for most of the rest of the party.

I agree. I've never been tory but i think she is a good leader. She's a strong figure and seems popular within her party. A few of my friends have said they like her even though they're normally Labour or Plaid. Like myself, they find her a "safer" pair of hands than Corbyn let's say. R.

[Jack_]

Well this is a disaster. Five more years of misery for those who have the least, the destruction of the education system and the decimation of the NHS. And people are going to willingly vote for this! Can't wait!

[Brillopad]

Great speech.
She has hit the nail on the head, hopefully this will give her a better chance of getting what we need from Brexit.
Should be an interesting election, more for the Labour Party.

She comes across as grounded and fair, but no pushover. I like her.

[jaxie]

Well this is a disaster. Five more years of misery for those who have the least, the destruction of the education system and the decimation of the NHS. And people are going to willingly vote for this! Can't wait!

This is such a dreadful, third world country that we live in. We're all practically starving.

[Jack_]

This is such a dreadful, third world country that we live in. We're all practically starving.

Disgusting sarcasm when there's plenty of people who actually are struggling to put food on the table and having to visit food banks

But hey, we're getting our country back so **** those scummy paupers!!! Who cares!! Privatise the NHS!!!! Finish them off!!!!!1 :cheer2: :cheer2:

[DemolitionRed]

Well this is a disaster. Five more years of misery for those who have the least, the destruction of the education system and the decimation of the NHS. And people are going to willingly vote for this! Can't wait!

Depressing isn't it?

I suspect it will also be the final nail in Corbyn's political leadership coffin. He was never leadership material; political campaigner, without a doubt, he can grasp causes but to aspire to be PM, he's never ever considered it. His one saving grace could be that those who voted to stay in the EU might use their power to prevent the Tories having overwhelming power.

[DemolitionRed]

And note, since we now have fixed-term Parliaments in Westminster, Ms May requires a two-thirds majority, or a motion of no confidence in her Government, to get her way on this. It's a reckless gamble; she has a majority barely in double figures.

[Kizzy]

This is such a dreadful, third world country that we live in. We're all practically starving.

The number of poor children going hungry during the school holidays is increasing to “heart-breaking” levels, teachers across the country have warned.

As many as four in five staff (80 per cent) reported a rise in “holiday hunger” over the past two years, with parents of children who qualify for free school meals (FSM) during term-time struggling to find the money to fund extra meals during school holidays.

In a survey led by the National Union of Teachers (NUT), 78 per cent of the 600 teachers polled said they recognised children arriving at school hungry.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/poor-children-hunger-malnourished-rising-numbers-returning-free-school-meals-a7687091.html

[Ronald.]

And note, since we now have fixed-term Parliaments in Westminster, Ms May requires a two-thirds majority, or a motion of no confidence in her Government, to get her way on this. It's a reckless gamble; she has a majority barely in double figures.

I don't think it's in any of the oppositions' interests to vote against this? R.

[DemolitionRed]

And will we miss the NHS when we have to pay £70 for a prescription and afford medical insurance higher than the average mortgage? It may sound daft now but those times are nearly with us.

[Jack_]

Depressing isn't it?

I suspect it will also be the final nail in Corbyn's political leadership coffin. He was never leadership material; political campaigner, without a doubt, he can grasp causes but to aspire to be PM, he's never ever considered it. His one saving grace could be that those who voted to stay in the EU might use their power to prevent the Tories having overwhelming power.

Very much so.

Owen Jones had it right in the heartfelt video he uploaded a month or so back, the risk of a landslide defeat for Labour is a disaster for everyone on the left, because it'll put our cause on the backfoot for another entire generation. As Kizzy touched on, the support for the policies is there but people just can't shake the image they have of Corbyn. I voted for him twice but something had to give, we needed time to do some policy developing and hand the baton over to someone like Clive Lewis who could stand on the same platform but without the baggage. Alas, it's too late. There isn't much to hope for in my eyes! You know it's bad when what's coming is blindingly obvious, and yet they're going to be granted a humongous majority to implement all of it

This country and its people are awful.

[Jack_]

The number of poor children going hungry during the school holidays is increasing to “heart-breaking” levels, teachers across the country have warned.

As many as four in five staff (80 per cent) reported a rise in “holiday hunger” over the past two years, with parents of children who qualify for free school meals (FSM) during term-time struggling to find the money to fund extra meals during school holidays.

In a survey led by the National Union of Teachers (NUT), 78 per cent of the 600 teachers polled said they recognised children arriving at school hungry.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/poor-children-hunger-malnourished-rising-numbers-returning-free-school-meals-a7687091.html

Who cares? The future is prosperous, we're getting £350m for the NHS and our country back! I'm sure they can find some food in a bin!

[Ronald.]

Who cares? The future is prosperous, we're getting £350m for the NHS and our country back! I'm sure they can find some food in a bin!

Let them eat cake! R.

[smudgie]

Labour and Lib Dem are all for the election, so no problem there.

[Brillopad]

Disgusting sarcasm when there's plenty of people who actually are struggling to put food on the table and having to visit food banks

But hey, we're getting our country back so **** those scummy paupers!!! Who cares!! Privatise the NHS!!!! Finish them off!!!!!1 :cheer2: :cheer2:

Open borders will finish off the NHS. We all know where Corbyn stands on that, let them all in, including potential terrorists, the more the merrier - never mind that it will be a much more dangerous place to live for all of us however people voted.

[Jack_]

Open borders will finish off the NHS. We all know where Corbyn stands on that, let them all in, including potential terrorists, the more the merrier - never mind that it will be a much more dangerous place to live for all of us however people voted.

No, the deliberate and systematic undermining and underfunding of the NHS will finish off the NHS, but you carry on believing the false narrative about open borders and terrorism.

We'll see in five years what the state of the NHS is.

[Cherie]

I'm not so sure it is cut and dried, May in her speech made it mainly about Brexit so rather than your standard Gen Election it has become more of a remain/leaver vote to my mind.

[Tom4784]

Well this is a disaster. Five more years of misery for those who have the least, the destruction of the education system and the decimation of the NHS. And people are going to willingly vote for this! Can't wait!

People never learn from their mistakes.

[Jack_]

I'm not so sure it is cut and dried, May in her speech made it mainly about Brexit so rather than your standard Gen Election it has become more of a remain/leaver vote to my mind.

A fair point, but Labour's stuck between a rock and a hard place and in deciding to back Brexit they've alienated a lot of their core base (as they would have done in reverse), the Lib Dems are gonna be the anti-Brexit vote, expect their seats to double at the very least.

It's in Labour's best interest to shift the narrative of this election from Brexit to all of the other issues on the table, not sure it's going to get through though.

[Tom4784]

Open borders will finish off the NHS. We all know where Corbyn stands on that, let them all in, including potential terrorists, the more the merrier - never mind that it will be a much more dangerous place to live for all of us however people voted.

It'll probably be more due to the fact that the Secretary of Health once wrote a book on how to dismantle the NHS through privatisation but of course, it's the immigrants' fault, not the corrupt party that has constantly shown that they want to shaft everyone who isn't in the 1'%....

Good grief.

[Brillopad]

No, the deliberate and systematic undermining and underfunding of the NHS will finish off the NHS, but you carry on believing the false narrative about open borders and terrorism.

We'll see in five years what the state of the NHS is.

We will indeed - as I work in it I have even more reason to want it to survive. Corbyn can't magically find the money, he will try to rob Peter to pay Paul with, most likely, disasterous results.

What about benefits, where will all that money come from as he will be bound to want to hand them out willy nilly as well. He couldn't manage a children's tea party. Good intentions are not enough.

[Kizzy]

I'm not so sure it is cut and dried, May in her speech made it mainly about Brexit so rather than your standard Gen Election it has become more of a remain/leaver vote to my mind.

Yes she did a great job, remember when she was a remainer?...No, neither do I :/

[user104658]

We will indeed - as I work in it I have even more reason to want it to survive. Corbyn can't magically find the money, he will try to rob Peter to pay Paul with, most likely, disasterous results.

What about benefits, where will all that money come from as he will be bound to want to hand them out willy nilly as well. He couldn't manage a children's tea party. Good intentions are not enough.

You work in the NHS and you're pro-Tory? :joker: Jesus Christ, talk about masochism.

[Brillopad]

You work in the NHS and you're pro-Tory? :joker: Jesus Christ, talk about masochism.

Not always. But I don't support Corbyn or his policies. I vote for those whose overall policies I support (excluding the NHS, but I think it will be even more at risk in Corbyn's hands). I don't blindly vote for any one party. Labour policies are way too idealistic without any real thought to the long-term consequences to the majority of us in my opinion.

At worst I can always get a job somewhere else. At worst with labour is far more life-changing in my opinion.

[Cherie]

Yes she did a great job, remember when she was a remainer?...No, neither do I :/

That's not the point I was making

[Withano]

Disgusting sarcasm when there's plenty of people who actually are struggling to put food on the table and having to visit food banks



Agreed

[reece(:]

Hasn't she ever so incessantly insisted that a snap election was not needed, can't trust a word this woman says.

[the truth]

Very much so.

Owen Jones had it right in the heartfelt video he uploaded a month or so back, the risk of a landslide defeat for Labour is a disaster for everyone on the left, because it'll put our cause on the backfoot for another entire generation. As Kizzy touched on, the support for the policies is there but people just can't shake the image they have of Corbyn. I voted for him twice but something had to give, we needed time to do some policy developing and hand the baton over to someone like Clive Lewis who could stand on the same platform but without the baggage. Alas, it's too late. There isn't much to hope for in my eyes! You know it's bad when what's coming is blindingly obvious, and yet they're going to be granted a humongous majority to implement all of it

This country and its people are awful.

A lot of labours demise is down to the economy, no one trusts labour with it, with or without corbyn

[Braden]

Even though this election probably won't result in how I wish, I'm still really excited to vote again :p

[joeysteele]

Disgusting sarcasm when there's plenty of people who actually are struggling to put food on the table and having to visit food banks

But hey, we're getting our country back so **** those scummy paupers!!! Who cares!! Privatise the NHS!!!! Finish them off!!!!!1 :cheer2: :cheer2:

Totally agree again Jack_

I love how you always highlight the realities.

[Ronald.]

Even though this election probably won't result in how I wish, I'm still really excited to vote again :p

Me too! I love election period. The debates, staying up late to watch the results come in.... R.

[Wizard.]

The Challenge impact?

[the truth]

Agreed

what hypocrisy youre very sarcastic a lot of the time about important issues

[Withano]

what hypocrisy youre very sarcastic a lot of the time about important issues

Bitch when

[ebandit]

Fingers crossed for an election, but why risk the fluctuation in the markets that comes with a 'big announcement' :/

fingers crossed that queenie admitted what a fraud she is........and how her family are just a bunch of upper class scroungers...........

Mark L

[Greg!]

Hasn't she ever so incessantly insisted that a snap election was not needed, can't trust a word this woman says.

She's a bloody alien lookalike snake!

[jaxie]

The number of poor children going hungry during the school holidays is increasing to “heart-breaking” levels, teachers across the country have warned.

As many as four in five staff (80 per cent) reported a rise in “holiday hunger” over the past two years, with parents of children who qualify for free school meals (FSM) during term-time struggling to find the money to fund extra meals during school holidays.

In a survey led by the National Union of Teachers (NUT), 78 per cent of the 600 teachers polled said they recognised children arriving at school hungry.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/poor-children-hunger-malnourished-rising-numbers-returning-free-school-meals-a7687091.html

That's probably more because of neglect that real poverty.

[Brillopad]

She's a bloody alien lookalike snake!

Preferable to the evil Scottish goblin if you really want to get so childish about it.

[joeysteele]

She just cannot be believed on anything she says.
Really the election could have been the same day as the local elections,had she thought this sooner.
Her constant insistence of no early election now just slung out shows how untrustworthy she and her cabinet are.

Of course this election is an opportunist one from her angle,no other reason for it.
She has an overall majority now, she can usually rely too on the Conservative 'poodle' party,namely the N Irish DUP s votes.

For me, I would love to see this move really backfire on her and this smug,arrogant govt.
What a result if she actually has taken voters too much for granted with her deceit this time,and the end result is she loses her overall majority at least.
If the polling narrows and the Lib Dems start taking back seats they had before.
That could be very likely achievable.

Really however,no way can this woman's word be trusted,it couldn't before,all her time as an awful Home Secretary.
If it's possible her word has become even more meaningless after her incredible and massive u turn on this unnecessary election.
Which will likely open up the nasty elements of division,seen just last year in the EU referendum again too.

[Kizzy]

That's probably more because of neglect that real poverty.

Parents are more neglectful now than in any point in history?..... Straw clutching at best that is, so there is no failings to be seen, no families falling through the cracks ... just bad parenting.

[user104658]

That's probably more because of neglect that real poverty.

Parents are more neglectful now than in any point in history?..... Straw clutching at best that is, so there is no failings to be seen, no families falling through the cracks ... just bad parenting.

It's more complicated than either of these things and also, it is both, to be honest. If a child in the UK is legitimately going hungry, then jaxie is correct, there is an element of neglect or incompetence. There's just no question about that. But that makes it far too simple. Where things are going so wrong, it is in the vast majority of cases, BECAUSE of poverty. Not literally the inability to buy food... but the conditions that people find themselves living in, causing depression, despair, substance abuse, not coping, and the big one - mismanagement leading to crippling debt. That then leads to kids going hungry, underperforming in school, slipping through the net, and reaching adulthood with no prospects and - more importantly - no sense of hope for a better life. The never ending cycle of "the underclass".

[Kazanne]

Open borders will finish off the NHS. We all know where Corbyn stands on that, let them all in, including potential terrorists, the more the merrier - never mind that it will be a much more dangerous place to live for all of us however people voted.

I agree Brillo,the NHS has far more people to see to now than it ever did,anyone with a braincell can see how that will impact over the years, and yes it is a far more dangerous place to live in now than it ever was which ironically also puts strain on the NHS.:wavey:

[Kazanne]

That's probably more because of neglect that real poverty.

I agree,you can see people smoking and on their smartphones while the kids are running round ragged and hungry,imo a bag of potatoes ,tin beans,and half a dozen eggs is a pretty cheap meal, costs less than 20 fags and will feed your family.

[jaxie]

Parents are more neglectful now than in any point in history?..... Straw clutching at best that is, so there is no failings to be seen, no families falling through the cracks ... just bad parenting.

How much is a jam sandwich and an apple? How much is the average benefits for someone with a child. Be realistic.

There was more poverty in the past than there is today. People lived in slums and worked from light to dark for a few pennies before the UK had a welfare system. People slept sitting up draped over a rope because it was a place to sleep and all they could afford. Little kids of 7 worked in factories. More poverty now than ever before. What planet are you on?

[jaxie]

I agree,you can see people smoking and on their smartphones while the kids are running round ragged and hungry,imo a bag of potatoes ,tin beans,and half a dozen eggs is a pretty cheap meal, costs less than 20 fags and will feed your family.

Jam sandwich and an apple was all I got when my mother was drinking because the money was spent on vodka. You are exactly right Kazanne.

[jaxie]

Disgusting sarcasm when there's plenty of people who actually are struggling to put food on the table and having to visit food banks

But hey, we're getting our country back so **** those scummy paupers!!! Who cares!! Privatise the NHS!!!! Finish them off!!!!!1 :cheer2: :cheer2:

Disgusting unrealistic drams. :shrug:

[Niamh.]

It's more complicated than either of these things and also, it is both, to be honest. If a child in the UK is legitimately going hungry, then jaxie is correct, there is an element of neglect or incompetence. There's just no question about that. But that makes it far too simple. Where things are going so wrong, it is in the vast majority of cases, BECAUSE of poverty. Not literally the inability to buy food... but the conditions that people find themselves living in, causing depression, despair, substance abuse, not coping, and the big one - mismanagement leading to crippling debt. That then leads to kids going hungry, underperforming in school, slipping through the net, and reaching adulthood with no prospects and - more importantly - no sense of hope for a better life. The never ending cycle of "the underclass".

Yup totally agree and I'm not sure that will ever change because it suits the most wealthy and powerful in society to keep them down and the middle/working class blaming the "benefit scroungers" and them blaming us etc etc keeps the focus off those who are the real problem

[jaxie]

It's more complicated than either of these things and also, it is both, to be honest. If a child in the UK is legitimately going hungry, then jaxie is correct, there is an element of neglect or incompetence. There's just no question about that. But that makes it far too simple. Where things are going so wrong, it is in the vast majority of cases, BECAUSE of poverty. Not literally the inability to buy food... but the conditions that people find themselves living in, causing depression, despair, substance abuse, not coping, and the big one - mismanagement leading to crippling debt. That then leads to kids going hungry, underperforming in school, slipping through the net, and reaching adulthood with no prospects and - more importantly - no sense of hope for a better life. The never ending cycle of "the underclass".

I'm not saying there isn't a cycle of 'underclass' but claims by some that there is more poverty now than ever before is just completely unrealistic.

With regard to substance abuse, mismanagement of money etc it doesn't​ have to be that way and I think too much is made an excuse. People have some responsibility for their own actions.

My mother drank this was her choice, there were circumstances like my father's illness that you might like to use to excuse her and it was her escape but she could have chosen differently. My father was a diabetic who became disabled at a young age (lost legs) and died on holiday abroad when I was barely out of my teens. We were poor, I was bright. I grew up on a rough council estate in London. I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl! Like the time I was nearly bottled in the face for being pretty by another girl! I was one of those kids who didn't get a secondary school. Though I did pass 11 plus. I was out of school 4 months at 11 before they threw me into a school two long bus journeys from home that had a grammar stream.

I had a friend whose mum died of cancer when she was very young and lived in the same area as me. She had a younger brother she was more or less mum to after that. Their clothes always smelled funny at school because she didn't know to take the washing out of the washing machine right away. She's a very successful accountant with a lovely house. Thank you grammar schools. **** off Diane Abbott who sent her son private but doesn't want anyone else to have grammar schools.

I am happily married, have great kids, own my own house. I run my own business. (No I didn't marry money). The point I'm trying to make is that in the society we live in people have opportunities that they can take. It doesn't have to be a cycle of poverty. There are ways out. Yes of course there are those who need help but I don't think we need make excuses for everyone who doesn't look after their kids properly.

I'm not sorry about any aspect of my life. I had an amazing dad and I took opportunities that came along. Our life shapes us. I'm just trying to show that not everyone from a council estate has to stay there.

[Brillopad]

I'm not saying there isn't a cycle of 'underclass' but claims by some that there is more poverty now than ever before is just completely unrealistic.

With regard to substance abuse, mismanagement of money etc it doesn't​ have to be that way and I think too much is made an excuse. People have some responsibility for their own actions.

My mother drank this was her choice, there were circumstances like my father's illness that you might like to use to excuse her and it was her escape but she could have chosen differently. My father was a diabetic who became disabled at a young age (lost legs) and died on holiday abroad when I was barely out of my teens. We were poor, I was bright. I grew up on a rough council estate in London. I could tell you stories that would make your hair curl! Like the time I was nearly bottled in the face for being pretty by another girl!

I am happily married, have great kids, own my own house. I run my own business. (No I didn't marry money). The point I'm trying to make is that in the society we live in people have opportunities that they can take. It doesn't have to be a cycle of poverty. There are ways out. Yes of course there are those who need help but I don't think we need make excuses for everyone who doesn't look after their kids properly.

Great post with which I completely agree. People choose their own path in life, regardless of where they come from, through action or inaction. They either wallow and accept or they get up and do something about it.

I wasn't born into privilege and left school with no qualifications because I was too stupid at the time to realise the importance of an education, despite my parents' efforts to persuade me, I thought I knew better. I married young and became a single mother. I went back into education, went to uni and have a career and doing ok. I have little time for those who whinge on in this day and age, when there are so many opportunities for all if they spent less time moaning and more time doing.

It's never too late - so people really do have no excuse.

[joeysteele]

Jam sandwich and an apple was all I got when my mother was drinking because the money was spent on vodka. You are exactly right Kazanne.

So a jam sandwich and apples are the best that children in problem homes or poor homes should ever expect or be given.
Good lord the UK is getting worse if anyone thinks that right or justifies it.
Glad I am getting out of a UK that has any who may lean to that thinking.

[Brillopad]

So a jam sandwich and apples are the best that children in problem homes or poor homes should ever expect or be given.
Good lord the UK is getting worse if anyone thinks that right or justifies it.
Glad I am getting out of a UK that has any who may lean to that thinking.

The point being that more effort and better management from the parent/s is more likely to be the real problem. It's just too easy to blame others, especially the government.

[Livia]

More planned parenthood is what's needed I reckon.

[Cherie]

So a jam sandwich and apples are the best that children in problem homes or poor homes should ever expect or be given.
Good lord the UK is getting worse if anyone thinks that right or justifies it.
Glad I am getting out of a UK that has any who may lean to that thinking.



I think Joey you are going to be in for a bit of a rough ride when you move to Ireland, the grass is not that much greener (pardon the pun), there will always be varying views wherever you live, I understand the Garda are under particular scrutiny at the moment for one million breath tests logged that were not actually undertaken, one million in a country the size of Ireland, the mind boggles :laugh: My brother in law spend 13 hours in A and E on Sunday night/Monday morning before he got to see a Doctor and though they diagnosed an infection didn't even provide him with antibiotics to be going on with until he filled his prescription.

[Niamh.]

More planned parenthood is what's needed I reckon.

I don't think that's the answer tbh. There's a real culture of social welfare as a lifestyle for some people and getting pregnant, getting a house from the state etc etc seems to be a part of that. It's a maddening attitude when you're working your ass off to pay taxes etc and you see these people who's whole way of life seems to be to scam the system and live off the state for their whole life but I personally believe it's working on changing those peoples attitudes and outlook on life is the only way it would get better. It's like they have this idea ingrained in them that this is the only way they can live their life, there's no motivation from parents or teachers or their communities to encourage them to strive for more or to tell them that that is even possible, that's what I've seen in my experience anyway

[jaxie]

So a jam sandwich and apples are the best that children in problem homes or poor homes should ever expect or be given.
Good lord the UK is getting worse if anyone thinks that right or justifies it.
Glad I am getting out of a UK that has any who may lean to that thinking.

It worked for me 30 years ago. I grew up. You are completely missing the point. Too eager to UK bash Joey. You are in for a shock if you think anywhere else is a shangri la.

[jaxie]

I don't think that's the answer tbh. There's a real culture of social welfare as a lifestyle for some people and getting pregnant, getting a house from the state etc etc seems to be a part of that. It's a maddening attitude when you're working your ass off to pay taxes etc and you see these people who's whole way of life seems to be to scam the system and live off the state for their whole life but I personally believe it's working on changing those peoples attitudes and outlook on life is the only way it would get better. It's like they have this idea ingrained in them that this is the only way they can live their life, there's no motivation from parents or teachers or their communities to encourage them to strive for more or to tell them that that is even possible, that's what I've seen in my experience anyway

Great post Naimh. I agree with every word except that there is no motivation, there is. I had a couple of wonderful teachers at school who were life changing.

[Kazanne]

Jam sandwich and an apple was all I got when my mother was drinking because the money was spent on vodka. You are exactly right Kazanne.

Aw Jaxie,that is sad but I get what you mean,we have it good today compared to years ago imo.

[jaxie]

Aw Jaxie,that is sad but I get what you mean,we have it good today compared to years ago imo.

Well not that ages I'm not in my dotage yet!

[Kazanne]

Well not that ages I'm not in my dotage yet!

lol, Sorry didn't mean to age you,I really find it hard to accept that anyone is suffering from hunger here unless it's bad parents who cant be bothered to shop and feed their children,even if you only got a fiver a day you could feed them.Veg are 29p at Asda,you can get sausage £1 for a frozen bag ,I just don't get all the poverty thing.

[jaxie]

lol, Sorry didn't mean to age you,I really find it hard to accept that anyone is suffering from hunger here unless it's bad parents who cant be bothered to shop and feed their children,even if you only got a fiver a day you could feed them.Veg are 29p at Asda,you can get sausage £1 for a frozen bag ,I just don't get all the poverty thing.

I agree with you, it's not really about a Jam sandwich. The point is that no matter how poor you are a parent can manage something if they aren't being neglectful. There are lots of things you can buy very cheaply that make a healthy meal.

[Niamh.]

Great post Naimh. I agree with every word except that there is no motivation, there is. I had a couple of wonderful teachers at school who were life changing.

That's wonderful for you Jaxie but not everyone does have those teachers who will take the time to motivate students and also even if there is sometimes influences from family and friends stops them from getting the message through as well. I do have masses of respect for anyone who manages to break that loop though, it takes a fierce strength and determination of character I think

[jaxie]

That's wonderful for you Jaxie but not everyone does have those teachers who will take the time to motivate students and also even if there is sometimes influences from family and friends stops them from getting the message through as well. I do have masses of respect for anyone who manages to break that loop though, it takes a fierce strength and determination of character I think

I think part of the problem these days is teachers are so bogged down in paperwork that they don't have time to inspirational.

[Niamh.]

I think part of the problem these days is teachers are so bogged down in paperwork that they don't have time to inspirational.

Yeah very true

[jaxie]

Yeah very true

But there are special people out there still. My kids school had some wonderful teachers too, though admittedly I do live in a more affluent area now. Also (I feel like I keep bleeding my personal life all over the place sorry) I have been to my childhood primary school several times to give talks/workshops to the kids about what I do now. The area is still pretty bad but I think it's wonderful the school invites people in who came from there and have become more successful to talk to the kids. I always say to them, I was you, I was sitting right where you are now. So I think schools do make efforts to inspire children in rough inner city areas.

[Niamh.]

But there are special people out there still. My kids school had some wonderful teachers too, though admittedly I do live in a more affluent area now. Also (I feel like I keep bleeding my personal life all over the place sorry) I have been to my childhood primary school several times to give talks/workshops to the kids about what I do now. The area is still pretty bad but I think it's wonderful the school invites people in who came from there and have become more successful to talk to the kids. I always say to them, I was you, I was sitting right where you are now. So I think schools do make efforts to inspire children in rough inner city areas.

Well, i can only speak from my own experiences, I grew up in an area that would be considered "bad" I wasn't from the council estates there and my parents did ok and had a hard working ethos so I always wanted to work myself but I went to school with alot of people who weren't like that. Most of the teachers only concentrated on the ones who put some effort in and just left the others to their own devices

[joeysteele]

It worked for me 30 years ago. I grew up. You are completely missing the point. Too eager to UK bash Joey. You are in for a shock if you think anywhere else is a shangri la.

I'm happy to take that chance,watching a govt.in the UK taking a sledgehammer to people sick and disabled,ignoring the warnings of charities who are on the front line of trying to help people.
The hardening attitudes of some in the UK,thinking the weakest and poor don't exist because they don't see the need to be poor.
Or thinking it right the poor are kept down and should live more as 3rd class citizens.

Not for me,any of that,maybe things might not be better elsewhere but all I see is things getting progressively worse for the poorest,weakest,sick and disabled in the UK.
It will get extremely worse in my view if this hardline hard hearted govt.gets a bigger majority too.

It all leaves me dismayed and almost ashamed of being British.

[Livia]

I'm happy to take that chance,watching a govt.in the UK taking a sledgehammer to people sick and disabled,ignoring the warnings of charities who are on the front line of trying to help people.
The hardening attitudes of some in the UK,thinking the weakest and poor don't exist because they don't see the need to be poor.
Or thinking it right the poor are kept down and should live more as 3rd class citizens.

Not for me,any of that,maybe things might not be better elsewhere but all I see is things getting progressively worse for the poorest,weakest,sick and disabled in the UK.
It will get extremely worse in my view if this hardline hard hearted govt.gets a bigger majority too.

It all leaves me dismayed and almost ashamed of being British.

It will do you good, then, to experience life outside the UK. See how ashamed you feel when you see how other countries operate. Until then it might be good to remember that this country is full of wonderful, caring, committed people from all parties and backgrounds. Imagining one group of people is evil incarnate makes me think you've never experienced real evil in any form.

[Niamh.]

It will do you good, then, to experience life outside the UK. See how ashamed you feel when you see how other countries operate. Until then it might be good to remember that this country is full of wonderful, caring, committed people from all parties and backgrounds. Imagining one group of people is evil incarnate makes me think you've never experienced real evil in any form.

Oi what are you saying about Ireland? :fist:

[Livia]

Oi what are you saying about Ireland? :fist:

LOL... I didn't really mean Ireland x

[Niamh.]

LOL... I didn't really mean Ireland x

That's where Joey is moving to :p

[Cherie]

It will do you good, then, to experience life outside the UK. See how ashamed you feel when you see how other countries operate. Until then it might be good to remember that this country is full of wonderful, caring, committed people from all parties and backgrounds. Imagining one group of people is evil incarnate makes me think you've never experienced real evil in any form.


I tend to agree, no where is perfect and there are a lot of things the UK gets right.

[Livia]

That's where Joey is moving to :p

Yes, I see that. It makes me despair when I see people saying how they're ashamed of being British, like this country has nothing to offer if it isn't approved by them. There are problems still in Ireland, I'm sure, but you're not ashamed of your nationality, and neither should you be.

[Livia]

I tend to agree, no where is perfect and there are a lot of things the UK gets right.

Yeah, that's how I feel. There's right and wrong everywhere. I've been fortunate enough to work in a few countries and travel quite a bit and the thing I learned mostly is that wherever you go, people are people, some good, some bad.

[Niamh.]

Yes, I see that. It makes me despair when I see people saying how they're ashamed of being British, like this country has nothing to offer if it isn't approved by them. There are problems still in Ireland, I'm sure, but you're not ashamed of your nationality, and neither should you be.

I know :laugh:

Oh I'm off to London actually for the weekend in June :hee:

[the truth]

I'm happy to take that chance,watching a govt.in the UK taking a sledgehammer to people sick and disabled,ignoring the warnings of charities who are on the front line of trying to help people.
The hardening attitudes of some in the UK,thinking the weakest and poor don't exist because they don't see the need to be poor.
Or thinking it right the poor are kept down and should live more as 3rd class citizens.

Not for me,any of that,maybe things might not be better elsewhere but all I see is things getting progressively worse for the poorest,weakest,sick and disabled in the UK.
It will get extremely worse in my view if this hardline hard hearted govt.gets a bigger majority too.

It all leaves me dismayed and almost ashamed of being British.

Labour treated the sick the elderly and disabled far far worse.....1000 people starved to death in stafford hospital alone....we had the filthiest hospitals in europe with endless mrsa....trebled the wages of the bosses, the trust management boards and bankrupted the public purses as they always do....then send thousands of soldiers under equipped to an illegal war and did nothing for injured soldiers, nothing about military hospitals....the endless cover ups of endless abuses in care homes and nursing homes and hospitals.....how can labour pretend to care more about public servives, when it is them that frivollously waste all the public money? bunch of hypocrites

[joeysteele]

It will do you good, then, to experience life outside the UK. See how ashamed you feel when you see how other countries operate. Until then it might be good to remember that this country is full of wonderful, caring, committed people from all parties and backgrounds. Imagining one group of people is evil incarnate makes me think you've never experienced real evil in any form.

Charming I'm sure.
I've seen a fair amount elsewhere in the World and much I detest there as much as I detest the robbing from and creation of rotten stressful testing against the sick and disabled by this govt.elected by some voters in the UK.
I have been across to Ireland many times this year and all I've seen thus far I like.

Furthermore you yourself do a fair bit of attacking whole groups of people such as the far left for example.

Finally to importantly clarify.
I said '' it almost makes me ashamed to be British'', I never actually stated I was.

[Brillopad]

Labour treated the sick the elderly and disabled far far worse.....1000 people starved to death in stafford hospital alone....we had the filthiest hospitals in europe with endless mrsa....trebled the wages of the bosses, the trust management boards and bankrupted the public purses as they always do....then send thousands of soldiers under equipped to an illegal war and did nothing for injured soldiers, nothing about military hospitals....the endless cover ups of endless abuses in care homes and nursing homes and hospitals.....how can labour pretend to care more about public servives, when it is them that frivollously waste all the public money? bunch of hypocrites

The Labour Party also made the decision to invade Iraq and lied about why, but those that have shouted the loudest on here about the British government invading Iraq and lying about it plan to vote for Labour. :shrug:

[Cherie]

I know :laugh:

Oh I'm off to London actually for the weekend in June :hee:

Don't be bringing your Irish problems over with you :idc:

[Livia]

Charming I'm sure.
I've seen a fair amount elsewhere in the World and much I detest there as much as I detest the robbing from and creation of rotten stressful testing against the sick and disabled by this govt.elected by some voters in the UK.*
I have been across to Ireland many times this year and all I've seen thus far I like.

Furthermore you yourself do a fair bit of attacking whole groups of people such as the far left for example.

Finally to importantly clarify.
I said '' it almost makes me ashamed to be British'', I never actually stated I was.

*Elected by the majority of voters, and if you think they're all wealthy and healthy you're mistaken.

I actually said recently on this forum that I don't hate Corbyn, I think he has honourable intentions. I have never seen anyone on the left do anything but attack anyone who is not in agreement with them.

Yes, this government hasn't been fair with a lot of its policies, I'm not sure that's a reason to leave the country and hang your head with shame over your born nationality. But hey, that's your call.

[Niamh.]

Don't be bringing your Irish problems over with you :idc:

Listen to English Cherie :idc:

[joeysteele]

*Elected by the majority of voters, and if you think they're all wealthy and healthy you're mistaken.

I actually said recently on this forum that I don't hate Corbyn, I think he has honourable intentions. I have never seen anyone on the left do anything but attack anyone who is not in agreement with them.

Yes, this government hasn't been fair with a lot of its policies, I'm not sure that's a reason to leave the country and hang your head with shame over your born nationality. But hey, that's your call.

elected with only 37% of all who voted is not a majority,it is the most votes for one Party but not the majority.
It is even more far away from being elected with a majority of votes from all eligible to vote.

Cut out the nastiness too,I am leaving the UK with my Mother who is full Irish and her ancestry is Irish, following the unexpected death of my Father last year.
No need for your thoroughly wrongly assumed jibes as to my reasons for carrying on my life elsewhere.

[smudgie]

I am oldish. ( not a pensioner)
I am disabled.
We are now a none working family.
I claimed PIP and was treat wonderfully, from my daughter making the first phone call to the lovely lady who came to visit me, absolutely no complaints.

Now I don't doubt that some people have it rough, and some appear to go through the mill from what has been said on here, but I have yet to meet anybody who has in my area ( that I know, obviously)
It must be down to the luck of the draw I guess.:shrug:

[the truth]

elected with only 37% of all who voted is not a majority,it is the most votes for one Party but not the majority.
It is even more far away from being elected with a majority of votes from all eligible to vote.

Cut out the nastiness too,I am leaving the UK with my Mother who is full Irish and her ancestry is Irish, following the unexpected death of my Father last year.
No need for your thoroughly wrongly assumed jibes as to my reasons for carrying on my life elsewhere.

It is considerably more than everyone else, therefore they are running the country. Thats democracy.

[jaxie]

I tend to agree, no where is perfect and there are a lot of things the UK gets right.

That's more or less what I've been trying to say with all my personal ramblings. There are opportunities and we are lucky. If you start on a violent council estate and your parents have problems you don't have to stay there. You can work to move on in the world.

[jaxie]

The Labour Party also made the decision to invade Iraq and lied about why, but those that have shouted the loudest on here about the British government invading Iraq and lying about it plan to vote for Labour. :shrug:

The Labour introduced university fees. This is something I can never forgive. I believe everyone should be entitled to a free education.

[joeysteele]

It is considerably more than everyone else, therefore they are running the country. Thats democracy.

Only around 7% more,hardly an actual votes cast ringing endorsement,even in a well passed its use by date electoral system.
Under PR 38% would not have any one Party governing alone.

[Niamh.]

That's more or less what I've been trying to say with all my personal ramblings. There are opportunities and we are lucky. If you start on a violent council estate and your parents have problems you don't have to stay there. You can work to move on in the world.

of course but if you're raised thinking that's the way to live then most people will grow up to be the same. Children 9 out of 10 times are lead by example and i guess are in a sense "brain washed" into believing and thinking the same way to those who bring them up and who they are influenced by

[Brillopad]

Only around 7% more,hardly an actual votes cast ringing endorsement,even in a well passed its use by date electoral system.
Under PR 38% would not have any one Party governing alone.

Sorry but get fed-up with sore losers keep quoting percentages on vote results. They would be singing a different tune if they had won by the same majority. It makes no odds - leavers won.

If the stupid couldn't be bothered to vote or people cast a protest vote that was not a true vote, they only have themselves to blame and have to live with it. Consequences! They can't then cry like a baby when their own stupidity blows up in their faces.

[Livia]

elected with only 37% of all who voted is not a majority,it is the most votes for one Party but not the majority.
It is even more far away from being elected with a majority of votes from all eligible to vote.

Cut out the nastiness too,I am leaving the UK with my Mother who is full Irish and her ancestry is Irish, following the unexpected death of my Father last year.
No need for your thoroughly wrongly assumed jibes as to my reasons for carrying on my life elsewhere.

It was more votes than any other one party. Wasn't it.

I am not being nasty. You'd know if I was... and my post would have been removed. I am very sorry that your family has suffered a loss... but I wasn't to know that.

I hope you find the Utopia you're looking for in Ireland.

[Livia]

Only around 7% more,hardly an actual votes cast ringing endorsement,even in a well passed its use by date electoral system.
Under PR 38% would not have any one Party governing alone.

If Labour had that result you'd think it a victory.

[jaxie]

of course but if you're raised thinking that's the way to live then most people will grow up to be the same. Children 9 out of 10 times are lead by example and i guess are in a sense "brain washed" into believing and thinking the same way to those who bring them up and who they are influenced by

It's weird though, while you are right for the most part, I can think of several others who moved on like me and my accountant friend did from our estate. So maybe more do move on than we think.

[the truth]

let me think what a labour uk would look like hmm.....mountains of debts, over paid unsackable public sector bosses, endless waste on the roads , more filthy mismanaged hospitals, endless abuse cover ups, another collapsed housing bubble, dismantling of our nuclear subs, open borders, sell out to europe, abandonment of the industries, breeding for benefits culture, loss of civil liberties and free speech, mindless political correctness, spin doctors in the cabinet and of course illegal wars..all this and dianne abbott calling everyone who doesnt agree with her a racist ...bliss

[Niamh.]

It's weird though, while you are right for the most part, I can think of several others who moved on like me and my accountant friend did from our estate. So maybe more do move on than we think.

Well yeah it's not always the case but I think it is mostly. I think as well alot has to do with who you end being friends with and what way they think

[Brillopad]

let me think what a labour uk would look like hmm.....mountains of debts, over paid unsackable public sector bosses, endless waste on the roads , more filthy mismanaged hospitals, endless abuse cover ups, another collapsed housing bubble, dismantling of our nuclear subs, open borders, sell out to europe, abandonment of the industries, breeding for benefits culture, loss of civil liberties and free speech, mindless political correctness, spin doctors in the cabinet and of course illegal wars..all this and dianne abbott calling everyone who doesnt agree with her a racist ...bliss

Like a horror movie.

[joeysteele]

If Labour had that result you'd think it a victory.

Totally wrong again and if you read my posts over the years on here,I have endlessly moaned that it should not have been possible that Labour was able to take power alone,after only getting around 35% of the vote in 2005.

Nice try again from you but way off the mark as to justified assumptions as to myself again.

[DemolitionRed]

New Labour started tuition fees.
New Labour went to war in Iraq
New Labour scammed this country like the good neo-liberals they were and in doing so, set a fantastic precedence for a newly ellected Tory government.

Fortunately we no longer have a 'New Labour'... nothing like.

As for poverty. Modern day poverty looks somewhat different to the poverty our parents or grandparents had to endure. Its almost impossible to compare, especially in many boroughs of London where the average house price is £half a million and the average rent of a one bed flat is probably more than you earn in a month unless your a professional.

If you bought your council house/flat in London back in the 70s-90s you will of paid a pittance for it. If you sold that same house/flat now and moved up north, you could afford a grand house standing in its own acres. Anyone who purchased property during the 70s 80s is laughing now but anyone who doesn't yet own property, will never (unless they inherit) have the same luck you had.

If salaries had risen along with house prices, a green collar worker would be earning £88k a year now instead of the pathetic £14k. Older people will try and tell you its all subjective... its not!

[Kizzy]

Sorry but get fed-up with sore losers keep quoting percentages on vote results. They would be singing a different tune if they had won by the same majority. It makes no odds - leavers won.

If the stupid couldn't be bothered to vote or people cast a protest vote that was not a true vote, they only have themselves to blame and have to live with it. Consequences! They can't then cry like a baby when their own stupidity blows up in their faces.

It's the last GE in discussion not brexit.

[Brillopad]

It's the last GE in discussion not brexit.

It's all linked if you hadn't got that yet.

[Kizzy]

It will do you good, then, to experience life outside the UK. See how ashamed you feel when you see how other countries operate. Until then it might be good to remember that this country is full of wonderful, caring, committed people from all parties and backgrounds. Imagining one group of people is evil incarnate makes me think you've never experienced real evil in any form.

Everything good has or is being cut and anything else of any value so your 'never had it so good' spiel is pointless.

I will remind you of the words of Anurin Bevan NEVER have they been more apt.

'No amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party. So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.'

[Kizzy]

It's all linked if you hadn't got that yet.

No, you are just so preoccupied with brexit you relate it to every topic.

[DemolitionRed]

Journalism forums are all buzzing with the same topic. Not the election but the imminent announcement by the director of public prosecutions about election fraud.

It seems that up to 30 Tory MPs are to be handed to the CPS for election fraud in that they massively overspent their budgets at the last election and deliberately concealed it using methods that have been long employed but only recently uncovered by Channel 4 News and others.

If those MPs were prosecuted they would suspended from parliament and the Tory's overall majority would be wiped out. So May is banking on her present poll lead to increase the majority and also deselect those MPs under investigation before they cause her any serious damage.

This is going to get interesting...

[Kizzy]

Conning basts!

[Northern Monkey]

Journalism forums are all buzzing with the same topic. Not the election but the imminent announcement by the director of public prosecutions about election fraud.

It seems that up to 30 Tory MPs are to be handed to the CPS for election fraud in that they massively overspent their budgets at the last election and deliberately concealed it using methods that have been long employed but only recently uncovered by Channel 4 News and others.

If those MPs were prosecuted they would suspended from parliament and the Tory's overall majority would be wiped out. So May is banking on her present poll lead to increase the majority and also deselect those MPs under investigation before they cause her any serious damage.

This is going to get interesting...Yeah Dennis Skinner brought it up in PMQ's today.May said something along the lines of she stands by her MP's or something.

[Brillopad]

No, you are just so preoccupied with brexit you relate it to every topic.

If you don't think the election is about Brexit then you are deluded.

[DemolitionRed]

If you don't think the election is about Brexit then you are deluded.

In some ways you are right. Brexit is only going to give May a couple of years and that's not enough time to make the Tory party look good but the reality is, this is all about back room number crunching.

[Kizzy]

If you don't think the election is about Brexit then you are deluded.

What has that to do with the fact you misinterpreted Joeys post on the outcome of the last GE?...