EU leaders agree unanimously on tough stance on Brexit

[Cherie]

European Union leaders have unanimously agreed to tough negotiating guidelines for Brexit talks with the UK, suggesting that they will demand Britain agrees on payments to the bloc before considering a new trade deal.

The heads of the remaining 27 countries agreed to adopt the draft guidelines issued by Donald Tusk last month less than 15 minutes into a special summit in Brussels on Saturday. The European council president tweeted that a “firm and fair political mandate” for the negotiations was now ready.

The EU is expected to demand that Britain resolves the key divorce issues of citizens’ rights, the divorce bill and the Irish border before any talks on a future trade deal between the UK and the EU can begin.

Tusk, the president of the council, whose members comprise the EU states, said ahead of the meeting on Saturday: “We all want a close and strong future relationship with the UK. There’s absolutely no question about it. But before discussing the future, we have to sort out our past. We will handle it with genuine care, but firmly. This is, I think, the only possible way to move forward.

“We also need solid guarantees for all citizens and their families who will be affected by Brexit, on both sides. This must be the number one priority for the EU and the UK.”

The EU has taken some confidence from the fact that Theresa May has not recently repeated her claim that “no deal is better than a bad deal”, despite being pushed to do so by politicians in favour of a hard Brexit.

“We are convinced that no deal is in no one’s interest. We appreciate the fact that the tone of the debate in the UK on this issue has changed,” said a senior EU official on Friday.

Asked to respond to claims from the prime minister on the general election campaign trail that member states were preparing to “line up to oppose us”, one senior EU diplomat admitted: “She’s right. She should not underestimate the commitment to unity.”

The leaders are also set to back automatic EU membership for Northern Ireland if it votes in the future to reunify with Ireland, and will call for Spain to have a say over any deal that affects Gibraltar in a document detailing the European council’s negotiating guidelines, which will set the broad political goals of the 27 states when talks start in June.

During a working lunch to approve the position drafted by officials, leaders will furthermore discuss for the first time the relocation of EU medical and banking agencies that are currently based in London. The European commission president, Jean-Claude Juncker, along with Tusk, is expected to offer an indication of the selection criteria that will be used to choose between the many states bidding.

Dublin presented its request over Northern Ireland and the implications of reunification in the future during a meeting of EU ambassadors last Wednesday, it is understood. “There was no discussion, because there was no need for a discussion”, an EU source said. “There is total agreement.”

The first of the key issues the EU guidelines say Britain must resolve, however, is the fate of 3 million EU citizens living in Britain and 1 million Britons on the continent, and what happens to their rights to work and claim benefits abroad.

Leaks suggest the leaders believe that any EU national who moves to the UK before the withdrawal date should have all the rights they would have expected in the past, including that of being able to enjoy permanent residency status once they have lived in the UK for five years, no matter when that period of residence begins.

The EU27 will also call for action to avoid a “hard border” between the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland, as fears persist that Brexit could undermine the peace process.

The most contentious issue, however, is likely to be Britain’s exit bill, estimated at around €60bn (£50.4bn), covering financial commitments made by the bloc during Britain’s time as a member.

Only once “sufficient progress” has been made in the talks on these issues, will the European council countenance talks about the future relationship.

Asked what sufficient progress would mean in relation to the UK’s divorce bill, a senior EU diplomat said the European council’s guidelines were quite explicit about what would be expected and that there would be little “wiggle room”.

[jaxie]

Of course we don't have to give them all their own way. We can always just ... leave.

[Tom4784]

Looking forward to May's backtracking as she looks to salvage any kind of deal with EU.

[reece(:]

"No deal is better than a bad deal" :rolleyes:

[smudgie]

Well at least people will now realise that the EU has demanded a hard Brexit, not the PM.
Hopefully she won't give in to all demands but is willing to compromise on some.

[Brillopad]

Well at least people will now realise that the EU has demanded a hard Brexit, not the PM.
Hopefully she won't give in to all demands but is willing to compromise on some.

This! Hopefully the ones she does compromise on are the ones she, and the majority of us, were happy to compromise on all along. She needs to play a clever game.

[joeysteele]

How anyone could think the EU would roll over and do Mrs May's bidding is beyond me.

The remaining 27 member Nations are and should be the EUs only concern.
Also following the hardline tone and attitude of this govts Ministers and some of it's MPs too.

To expect an easy ride was totally pie in the sky.
If this woman is leading the negotiations with the likely intake of more hardline wreckers Con MPs.
I would despair myself.

Thankfully I'll be watching the likely chaotic mess elsewhere but feeling really sad for the UK and more likely what will eventually be all that remains in time of what was the original UK.

[Denver]

Play them at their own game then

[Brillopad]

How anyone could think the EU would roll over and do Mrs May's bidding is beyond me.

The remaining 27 member Nations are and should be the EUs only concern.
Also following the hardline tone and attitude of this govts Ministers and some of it's MPs too.

To expect an easy ride was totally pie in the sky.
If this woman is leading the negotiations with the likely intake of more hardline wreckers Con MPs.
I would despair myself.

Thankfully I'll be watching the likely chaotic mess elsewhere but feeling really sad for the UK and more likely what will eventually be all that remains in time of what was the original UK.

I'm sorry that you are all doom and gloom on this subject but it is very early days and you may yet have cause to eat your words. Time will tell.

[Withano]

This might come across as baity but were leavers expecting a good deal with the EU? I know Farage kept making the point about German cars in Britain, but nobody actually believed that we'd keep the privileges did they? Leavers left cos they assumed we could get good deals with other countries, right?

[smudgie]

This might come across as baity but were leavers expecting a good deal with the EU? I know Farage kept making the point about German cars in Britain, but nobody actually believed that we'd keep the privileges did they? Leavers left cos they assumed we could get good deals with other countries, right?

This leaver voted for being able to rule ourselves once again.
I have no illusions that we may suffer short term after Brexit, but my vote is for my kids, who hopefully will benefit from it in the future.
No gain without some pain I guess.

[Cherie]

This leaver voted for being able to rule ourselves once again.
I have no illusions that we may suffer short term after Brexit, but my vote is for my kids, who hopefully will benefit from it in the future.
No gain without some pain I guess.

What benefits can you see for your kids Smudgie, genuine question?

[smudgie]

What benefits can you see for your kids Smudgie, genuine question?

Genuinely.
A country that rules itself and doesn't need the blessing of 27 other countries.
Hopefully we will be able to trade with the rest of the world much easier, however if a decision arises to trade with Europe to both sides advantage I am all for it.
More control over our immigration, being able to take the best and leave the rest.
Hoping our government of the day ( whoever they may be) can stand up for Britain when it comes to quotas.
No doubt it is going to be a rocky road, but I don't think it is going to be as bad as feared by some.
The EU countries are hardly going to ban holiday makers etc, might just have to get a passport or visa but it's hardly the end of the world.

[Withano]

.
A country that rules itself and doesn't need the blessing of 27 other countries.
.

I always hated this side of the argument. What if Hitler-2.0 gets eleted and he can just do whatever he wants with your children and their future? I feel like this was poorly thought out by a lot of leavers. But yes hopefully we'll get a few good trade deals outside of the EU, that will be the saving grace.

[smudgie]

I always hated this side of the argument. What if Hitler-2.0 gets eleted and he can just do whatever he wants with your children and their future? I feel like this was poorly thought out by a lot of leavers. But yes hopefully we'll get a few good trade deals outside of the EU, that will be the saving grace.

We managed without being stupid enough to vote for a dictator before, given that more people get to vote now I would hope common sense will prevail.
Thank goodness for democracy and parliament.

[Scarlett.]

Play them at their own game then

Hard to do when they hold all the cards though. Which is why I've always said Brexit was a bad idea, we don't have a leg to stand on in these negotiations.

[joeysteele]

Hard to do when they hold all the cards though. Which is why I've always said Brexit was a bad idea, we don't have a leg to stand on in these negotiations.

Spot on.The UK doesn't.
Yes times change admittedly.

However before we joined the then common market in the early 70s, we were then trading with other Nations but desperate to get into that trading area of the EEC.
Being denied same more than once.

The EU as it is,has become so with the UK in it,we have helped form it as it is too in a great part.

To think that the UK now walking away after all that and expecting the best of deals now from them is really likely is in my view unbelievable.
I really do think in time, the UK will be back just about to the early 70s, again likely doing okay but looking in from the outside,on a trading area it knows it should be part of and wants to be but cannot be fully at the table.

The EU has its loyalty to need to be given to the 27 members it still has and to the Nations who also want to join them, not to the UK.
On this one,the UK now will be rightly punching above its weight on this one.

[Tom4784]

There's an attitude of 'We don't need the EU but the EU needs us' that's been prevalent in the Leaver camp so I'm happy to see that incorrect assumption crushed.

We do not hold any cards, we are not that important to any other country. We can't have a superiority complex when we're in such a precarious position.

[Brother Leon]

What did anyone expect? EU to roll over for us?

Enjoy being Trump's puppy dogs I guess.

[jaxie]

This might come across as baity but were leavers expecting a good deal with the EU? I know Farage kept making the point about German cars in Britain, but nobody actually believed that we'd keep the privileges did they? Leavers left cos they assumed we could get good deals with other countries, right?

When you leave, you leave. You don't stay half in. Absolutely no illusions about that.

[joeysteele]

When you leave, you leave. You don't stay half in. Absolutely no illusions about that.

The vote was to leave as members not stop dealing with the EU full stop.
That is and would be economic madness.

You are possibly one who would rather have no deal at all with the EU.
Thankfully,I doubt a pretty strong number at the very least, who did fall for voting leave,would have wanted or were voting for that when they actually cast their votes.

[Brillopad]

The vote was to leave as members not stop dealing with the EU full stop.
That is and would be economic madness.

You are possibly one who would rather have no deal at all with the EU.
Thankfully,I doubt a pretty strong number at the very least, who did fall for voting leave,would have wanted or were voting for that when they actually cast their votes.

What did the leave voters 'fall for' ? They fell for nothing. They have a different opinion to you. Unless you are an economist or a clairvoyant you are no expert and your opinion is just opinion the same as everyone else.

To keep implying that those with a different opinion to yourself are ill-informed gullible fools is unproven and therefore incorrect (as a lawyer you should know that) and it is not your place to make such assumptions.

[Livia]

They were hardly going to say, so long... we'll miss you... keep in touch xxx They want to dissuade any other country from going down the same road.

[Denver]

Hard to do when they hold all the cards though. Which is why I've always said Brexit was a bad idea, we don't have a leg to stand on in these negotiations.

Tell them if they refuse to protect our citizens then theirs will have to leave the UK then we will see how quickly their attitudes change

[arista]

Of course we don't have to give them all their own way. We can always just ... leave.


Yes thats OK

[Cherie]

Tell them if they refuse to protect our citizens then theirs will have to leave the UK then we will see how quickly their attitudes change

It's May who seems to be holding back on that promise, the EU have put it as one of the things that needs sorting before we can move forward

[arista]

AsdaWalmart will get more stock from USA
ready for nasty EU blockage



Get your back UPs
ready

[Northern Monkey]

It's May who seems to be holding back on that promise, the EU have put it as one of the things that needs sorting before we can move forward

May tried to get that sorted months ago.She put it to the EU to take it off the table so as not to use people as a "bargaining chip" but the EU rejected it being stubborn as they are.
The UK government and the EU actually agree on this issue.I don't think that will be a point of contention.This "divorce bill" will be the bigger issue.

[Cherie]

May tried to get that sorted months ago.She put it to the EU to take it off the table so as not to use people as a "bargaining chip" but the EU rejected it being stubborn as they are.
The UK government and the EU actually agree on this issue.I don't think that will be a point of contention.This "divorce bill" will be the bigger issue.

That's true I had forgotten about that

[Scarlett.]

It's funny, everything is starting to turn out exactly how the so-called "Project Fear" said it would. It's almost like all those experts knew what they were talking about. This country has gone from being a decently strong country to being the ****show laughing stock of the world, and this is just the start of it. It's all so pointless.

[Brillopad]

It's funny, everything is starting to turn out exactly how the so-called "Project Fear" said it would. It's almost like all those experts knew what they were talking about. This country has gone from being a decently strong country to being the ****show laughing stock of the world, and this is just the start of it. It's all so pointless.

How on earth do you come to that conclusion. Fear getting a stranglehold.

I think quite a few other EU countries are watching what happens with intensity as they are probably not so far away from doing the same thing. The EU fear this which is why they are trying so hard to intimidate us and stop us leaving.

I don't think the world is laughing at us, it is laughing at the EU as it steadfastly destroys Europe.

[Withano]

How on earth do you come to that conclusion. Fear getting a stranglehold.

I think quite a few other EU countries are watching what happens with intensity as they are probably not so far away from doing the same thing. The EU fear this which is why they are trying so hard to intimidate us and stop us leaving.

I don't think the world is laughing at us, it is laughing at the EU as it steadfastly destroys Europe.

U.K. leaves the EU without good trade deals
EU refuses to give U.K.any good trade deal
Leavers: haha eu is so dumb, the whole world is laughing at them right now

I don't think this is the right thread to declare your blind faith tbh

[Brillopad]

U.K. leaves the EU without good trade deals
EU refuses to give U.K.any good trade deal
Leavers: haha eu is so dumb, the whole world is laughing at them right now

I don't think this is the right thread to declare your blind faith tbh

Too early to be panicking. Not blind faith at all. Do you usually believe in giving in at the first sign of trouble? Or has it got more to do with agendas!

[Livia]

They're taking a strong stance because with so many Euriopean elections on the horizon, they're crapping themselves. Still it amuses me to watch unelected officials panicking.

[Withano]

Too early to be panicking. Not blind faith at all. Do you usually believe in giving in at the first sign of trouble? Or has it got more to do with agendas!

I believe in calling a spade a spade.
Haven't commented properly on Brexit in months because there's not much point in filling in the gaps imo.
This is actual news though. And you sticking your noes up at it makes your argument very weak. So stop fighting with your agendas Brillo, you're inadvertently ruining them. If you can't be trusted to call a spade a spade, then nobody will take any of your other Brexit-related posts seriously in the future..
Brexit might be alright overall, too soon to tell, but in regards to the OP, this is undoubtedly a disaster. Pretending it is anything else is silly because let's call a spade a spade.

[Livia]

I believe in calling a spade a spade.
Haven't commented properly on Brexit in months because there's not much point in filling in the gaps imo.
This is actual news though. And you sticking your noes up at it makes your argument very weak. So stop fighting with your agendas Brillo, you're inadvertently ruining them. If you can't be trusted to call a spade a spade, then nobody will take any of your other Brexit-related posts seriously in the future..
Brexit might be alright overall, too soon to tell, but in regards to the OP, this is undoubtedly a disaster. Pretending it is anything else is silly because let's call a spade a spade.

It's only a disaster if you had no idea this was EXACTLY what was expected. Did you think they were going to wander in and hand over everything we wanted? You start negotiations wanting everything... or giving nothing... then you meet somewhere in the middle.

Regarding the emboldened bit... that's not really your call.

[Niamh.]

I've deleted some posts in here, stay ontopic please......eachother isn't the topic

[jaxie]

I believe in calling a spade a spade.
Haven't commented properly on Brexit in months because there's not much point in filling in the gaps imo.
This is actual news though. And you sticking your noes up at it makes your argument very weak. So stop fighting with your agendas Brillo, you're inadvertently ruining them. If you can't be trusted to call a spade a spade, then nobody will take any of your other Brexit-related posts seriously in the future..
Brexit might be alright overall, too soon to tell, but in regards to the OP, this is undoubtedly a disaster. Pretending it is anything else is silly because let's call a spade a spade.

Calling anything at this point a disaster is ridiculously premature. Perhaps your expectations in regard the EU are high. My expectations of overpaid unelected officials are quite low. No surprises here.

[Withano]

Calling anything at this point a disaster is ridiculously premature.

I disagree here, a lot of Brexit threads up to now have been entirely speculative, and making firm opinions on speculations is premature yeh, which is why I have avoided the majority of them in a few months.
This thread doesnt really hold a speculative tone though. Its very different to the rest of Brexit-threads on tibb, and the appropriate conclusion for remainers and leavers to make is that this small aspect of Brexit is disastrous, and we can only hope that other aspects hold a more positive tone once the speculation starts to turn factual..

[jaxie]

I disagree here, a lot of Brexit threads up to now have been entirely speculative, and making firm opinions on speculations is premature yeh, which is why I have avoided the majority of them in a few months.
This thread doesnt really hold a speculative tone though. Its very different to the rest of Brexit-threads on tibb, and the appropriate conclusion for remainers and leavers to make is that this small aspect of Brexit is disastrous, and we can only hope that other aspects hold a more positive tone once the speculation starts to turn factual..

You are stuck in the idea that only the EU holds any cards which simply isn't the case. They have said all along there would be no cherry picking etc etc. There are absolutely no surprises here.

[Tom4784]

I don't think the EU are worried at all. We're in a bad position and Brexit hasn't been the shining poster child for leaving the EU thus far that a lot of leavers thought it would be. The leadership is incompetent and we're already flailing. It won't likely inspire any other country to leave as it stands.

Having an arrogant attitude of 'The EU is scared! Brexit will be a revolution that will break the EU!' will get us nowhere and neither will blind faith. The best thing we can do is accept that reality of the situation, things are bad and May is dangerously incompetent and will go whichever way the wind blows. Negotiations must be salvaged because we aren't in a strong enough position to be arrogant at this stage.

[Brillopad]

I don't think the EU are worried at all. We're in a bad position and Brexit hasn't been the shining poster child for leaving the EU thus far that a lot of leavers thought it would be. The leadership is incompetent and we're already flailing. It won't likely inspire any other country to leave as it stands.

Having an arrogant attitude of 'The EU is scared! Brexit will be a revolution that will break the EU!' will get us nowhere and neither will blind faith. The best thing we can do is accept that reality of the situation, things are bad and May is dangerously incompetent and will go whichever way the wind blows. Negotiations must be salvaged because we aren't in a strong enough position to be arrogant at this stage.

And who do you suggest for this mammoth task - it clearly wouldn't be Corbyn.

Wouldn't trust Farron either. May is the Priminister and likely to remain so - it is her job and with the right support from her team, no one can do it on their own, she is the woman for the job. To describe her as dangerously incompetent is silly.

Our position is as strong as our self belief and our value of our strengths i.e. Security expertise.

I'm just relieved we are not likely to be lumbered with the Corbyn/Abbot combo - what a disaster that would be.

[Tom4784]

And who do you suggest for this mammoth task - it clearly wouldn't be Corbyn.

Wouldn't trust Farron either. May is the Priminister and likely to remain so - it is her job and with the right support from her team, no one can do it on their own, she is the woman for the job. To describe her as dangerously incompetent is silly.

Our position is as strong as our self belief and our value of our strengths i.e. Security expertise.

She's shown herself to be incompetent by constantly changing her stance on issues, how can she stand for anything when her administration are constantly changing their minds on what stances to take?

Corbyn would at least be consistent in his goals and would ironically be more likely to get a brexit deal that leavers would be happy with given that he is more likely to stick to his guns than May is as she's gonna fold when things start to get difficult.

I don't want the Lib Dems anywhere near Downing Street, people made the mistake of voting Leave and now they need to accept the consequences, I don't want the Lib Dems to bail them out.

Either way, the Tories have shown themselves to be unequal to the task.

Your point about Self Belief is just plain silly. If a house is burning down having a strong sense of Self Belief that it isn't burning down isn't going to stop the house from burning the **** down. Accepting the reality of the situation we're in is the only way forward, delusion gets us nowhere.

[Brillopad]

She's shown herself to be incompetent by constantly changing her stance on issues, how can she stand for anything when her administration are constantly changing their minds on what stances to take?

Corbyn would at least be consistent in his goals and would ironically be more likely to get a brexit deal that leavers would be happy with given that he is more likely to stick to his guns than May is as she's gonna fold when things start to get difficult.

I don't want the Lib Dems anywhere near Downing Street, people made the mistake of voting Leave and now they need to accept the consequences, I don't want the Lib Dems to bail them out.

Either way, the Tories have shown themselves to be unequal to the task.

Your point about Self Belief is just plain silly. If a house is burning down having a strong sense of Self Belief that it isn't burning down isn't going to stop the house from burning the **** down. Accepting the reality of the situation we're in is the only way forward, delusion gets us nowhere.

I think self belief gives you confidence and confidence makes you stronger.

That confidence generally puts you in a stronger position in negotiations, as you are less likely to take any crap and more likely fight for what you want. Don't knock it.

Despite how much you knock this country we do have a lot to offer and the EU know that - even though they are not going to admit it for obvious reasons.

[DemolitionRed]

I think self belief gives you confidence and confidence makes you stronger.

That confidence generally puts you in a stronger position in negotiations, as you are less likely to take any crap and more likely fight for what you want. Don't knock it.

Despite how much you knock this country we do have a lot to offer and the EU know that - even though they are not going to admit it for obvious reasons.

Its not about knocking the country, its about knocking government policies. Democracy gives us the right to disagree with those policies.

[Livia]

Am I the only one here who thinks that a politician changing their mind should not be a hanging offence? I kind of admire politicians who u turn. Never be afraid to say you've found a better way to do things. Never be afraid to say you were wrong.

[Niamh.]

Am I the only one here who thinks that a politician changing their mind should not be a hanging offence? I kind of admire politicians who u turn. Never be afraid to say you've found a better way to do things. Never be afraid to say you were wrong.

I don't know much about Theresa may but in general i think it's a good quality yeah, means you're more open to listening to everyone i think....although I do wonder about Politicians motives for doing u-turns sometimes :laugh:

[Withano]

Am I the only one here who thinks that a politician changing their mind should not be a hanging offence? I kind of admire politicians who u turn. Never be afraid to say you've found a better way to do things. Never be afraid to say you were wrong.

Double edged sword
I agree its corageous, but also you didnt research well in the first place
Its not like Corbyns making any uturns in the way he voted for gay rights and womens rights in the past
Her uturn in brexit and the snap election doesnt seem like a sudden epiphany, seems closer to being a power hungry sket to me.

[Livia]

Double edged sword
I agree its corageous, but also you didnt research well in the first place
Its not like Corbyns making any uturns in the way he voted for gay rights and womens rights in the past
Her uturn in brexit and the snap election doesnt seem like a sudden epiphany, seems closer to being a power hungry sket to me.

I admire anyone who has a valid rethink, whichever party they represent. Research is all very well but things change without notice, so even the most well-prepared politician with the world's greatest researcher may have the landscape changed in front of him (or indeed, her...) which could lead to their original stance to be the wrong one.

[Livia]

I don't know much about Theresa may but in general i think it's a good quality yeah, means you're more open to listening to everyone i think....although I do wonder about Politicians motives for doing u-turns sometimes :laugh:

I wonder about politicians motives sometimes, whether they're u-turning or not.

[Withano]

I admire anyone who has a valid rethink, whichever party they represent. Research is all very well but things change without notice, so even the most well-prepared politician with the world's greatest researcher may have the landscape changed in front of him (or indeed, her...) which could lead to their original stance to be the wrong one.

This was the article I had in mind when I made that post, I was gonna add it in.

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/tim-farron-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-voted-womens-issues/

I admire someone who can change their mind, I admire someone more if they dont need to because they thought about their stance on the issue properly the first time round.

[Livia]

This was the article I had in mind when I made that post, I was gonna add it in.

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/politics/tim-farron-theresa-may-jeremy-corbyn-voted-womens-issues/

I admire someone who can change their mind, I admire someone more if they dont need to because they thought about their stance on the issue properly the first time round.

Sit down, Withano.... hold on to something solid..... we agree!

[DemolitionRed]

Nobody wants to hang anyone. Its human nature to side with people who share our identity. Its also human nature to change our ideas but in May's case, we are talking about our expectations through preference politics. When a PM is in the habit of regularly changing their mind, how are we to believe or trust in their election campaign promises?

[DemolitionRed]

Since becoming PM, she promised a Britain that would work for everyone before changing her mind and introducing more crippling cuts to benefits.

She claimed she wanted to heavily invest to save the NHS and then changed her mind and implemented more cuts.

She said she wanted a fairer education for everyone before pushing ahead with the idea of grammar schools.

It just feels divisive.

[Niamh.]

I wonder about politicians motives sometimes, whether they're u-turning or not.

This is true :laugh:

[Tom4784]

Am I the only one here who thinks that a politician changing their mind should not be a hanging offence? I kind of admire politicians who u turn. Never be afraid to say you've found a better way to do things. Never be afraid to say you were wrong.

I don't mind a politician that makes u-turns for the right reasons but May's u-turns seem to be more for her own benefit than anyone else's. The only reason she's called a snap election after saying she wouldn't for months is because she spotted an opportunity to crush the opposition, She wants to consolidate her hold now because she knows she wouldn't win if the election happened when it should have.

It's an issue of opportunity rather than sincerity when it comes U-turns and politicians like May.

[Tom4784]

I think self belief gives you confidence and confidence makes you stronger.

That confidence generally puts you in a stronger position in negotiations, as you are less likely to take any crap and more likely fight for what you want. Don't knock it.

Despite how much you knock this country we do have a lot to offer and the EU know that - even though they are not going to admit it for obvious reasons.

It isn't a job interview where we can blag it through confidence alone, it's a negotiation in which EU knows it holds all the cards.

Ah the ol' patriotic act to try to silence any dissenting opinions, a weak ploy for people who can't argue their position any other way.

We don't have a leg to stand on, that is the reality here. Deluding yourself into thinking differently won't change that.

[joeysteele]

I don't mind a politician that makes u-turns for the right reasons but May's u-turns seem to be more for her own benefit than anyone else's. The only reason she's called a snap election after saying she wouldn't for months is because she spotted an opportunity to crush the opposition, She wants to consolidate her hold now because she knows she wouldn't win if the election happened when it should have.

It's an issue of opportunity rather than sincerity when it comes U-turns and politicians like May.

Absolutely true,all of that.

There's nothing I've observed as to her that looks sincere or trustworthy.
It appears her word,no matter how many times she gives it or stresses it,is completely meaningless.

[Brillopad]

It isn't a job interview where we can blag it through confidence alone, it's a negotiation in which EU knows it holds all the cards.

Ah the ol' patriotic act to try to silence any dissenting opinions, a weak ploy for people who can't argue their position any other way.

We don't have a leg to stand on, that is the reality here. Deluding yourself into thinking differently won't change that.

We will see.

[Tom4784]

We will see.

We will, blind hope won't help much when reality sets it.