Why Mrs May will destroy Mr Corbyn

[Alf]

Sargon knows


ZjjVv3LwrUQ

[Black Dagger]

Depressing, as is the comments section.

[Withano]

Guy in the video is irritating af so couldnt make it past 2:03
But tories will win because they appeal to the chavs, as well as the rich now. Its a strange combo, and it was never their plan, but it works for them. Most constituencies have lots of wealthy and/or chavs so theyll clean up, and we'll sit through 5 years of gross policies

[Alf]

Guy in the video is irritating af so couldnt make it past 2:03
But tories will win because they appeal to the chavs, as well as the rich now. Its a strange combo, and it was never their plan, but it works for them. Most constituencies have lots of wealthy and/or chavs so theyll clean up, and we'll sit through 5 years of gross policiesThose pesky chavs.

Who are the chavs by the way?


I bet I find Owen Jones more irritating than you find Sargon of Akkad irritating.

But if I was going to judge and criticise Owen Jones, then first I'd listen to what he had to say.

The beef is late on in the video, so if you only had the patients for 2.03, then the only person you're cheating, is yourself or deep down you're just not really interested, but have always got an opinion.

[Withano]

Those pesky chavs.

Who are the chavs by the way?


I bet I find Owen Jones more irritating than you find Sargon of Akkad irritating.

But if I was going to judge and criticise Owen Jones, then first I'd listen to what he had to say.

The beef is late on in the video, so if you only had the patients for 2.03, then the only person you're cheating, is yourself or deep down you're just not really interested, but have always got an opinion.

I was replying to the thread title, thought it made a good open-ended question. I was uninterested in the OP, correct. Its an 18 minute video which largely features an arrogant wannabe who clearly loves the sound of his own voice.

The Youtube comments are a good example of the chavs that the tories now appeal to. Their fanbase wasnt half this chavvy 2 years ago, its a pattern I've picked up on.. and in my opinion, is one of the reasons that will lead the tories to win the election. Their fanbase has expanded to new areas.

[Alf]

I was replying to the thread title, thought it made a good open-ended question. I was uninterested in the OP, correct. Its an 18 minute video which largely features an arrogant wannabe who clearly loves the sound of his own voice.

The Youtube comments are a good example of the chavs that the tories now appeal to. Their fanbase wasnt half this chavvy 2 years ago, its a pattern I've picked up on.. and in my opinion, is one of the reasons that will lead the tories to win the election. Their fanbase has expanded to new areas.I'm a chav, you're an establishment storm-trooper, spreading the establishment gospel.

You keep on looking down on and labelling the working class people, if that's what makes you happy.

[Northern Monkey]

After watching a few of Corbyns interviews I sometimes get the impression that he's deliberately trying to lose.Dodging questions on national security,Brexit and immigration is not going to instill confidence from the GBP.Especially not in this election.

[Withano]

I'm a chav, you're an establishment storm-trooper, spreading the establishment gospel.

You keep on looking down on and labelling the working class people, if that's what makes you happy.

You're the only one making a link between chavs and the working class
To clarify; I dont think all working class are chavs, nor do I think all chavs are working class

[Alf]

I've never voted for any of the main two party's. Neither of them represent me.

But this election is about who is best to negotiate us out of the a EU, and the Tories are the only one to vote for. It's as simple as that.

UKIP have achieved what they wanted to do, but they're now finished. So sadly, it has to be the Tories.

[Withano]

Why did you kick up a fuss over me saying this


But tories will win because they appeal to the chavs now,

When you have said this

I'm a chav.

And this

I've never voted for any of the main two party's.

But this election is about who is best to negotiate us out of the a EU, and the Tories are the only one to vote for. It's as simple as that.
.

[Alf]

Why did you kick up a fuss over me saying this



When you have said this



And thisI don't understand what your question is.

[jaxie]

Guy in the video is irritating af so couldnt make it past 2:03
But tories will win because they appeal to the chavs, as well as the rich now. Its a strange combo, and it was never their plan, but it works for them. Most constituencies have lots of wealthy and/or chavs so theyll clean up, and we'll sit through 5 years of gross policies

What is a 'chav' and what's the problem with them?

[Withano]

I don't understand what your question is.

I'm asking why you argued against the point I made when you literally describe yourself, and your poitical values, in a way that would suggest my point is correct.

[Alf]

I'm asking why you argued against the point I made when you literally describe yourself, and your poitical values, in a way that would suggest my point is correct.Well at the moment, the Tories are the only ones that are appealing to me, so I presumed I was one of these chavs? So I sarcastically called myself a chav, because that is what you labelled people like me.

I have no idea whether that answers your question or not, I've had a few beers, and this conversation is confusing me, I don't even know if we're talking on the same lines here.

[Withano]

Well at the moment, the Tories are the only ones that are appealing to me, so I presumed I was one of these chavs? So I sarcastically called myself a chav, because that is what you labelled people like me.

I have no idea whether that answers your question or not, I've had a few beers, and this conversation is confusing me, I don't even know if we're talking on the same lines here.

No, thats fair enough. I get ya, I didn't read the sarcasm, I thought you actually did identify as chavvy. Which is why I was confused at you perfectly proving my point.

[Withano]

you just generalized that tory voters are either rich or chavs...no doubt will do a dianne abbot next and call them all racists too lol

I suggested that they appeal to both of these populations, and that they didnt two years ago. You're getting your knickers in a twist, sis. You're assuming that I used rich and chav as insults, I just didnt think to rephrase my words for the PC brigade. Read into them however you want.

[Cherie]

Sadly you are right Alf this vote is all about Brexit, I just hope the Torys won't get a massive majority although it looks like barring a miracle they will, not sure I will vote, shame there isn't a vote for none of these awful leaders like they do in France

[Kazanne]

Guy in the video is irritating af so couldnt make it past 2:03
But tories will win because they appeal to the chavs, as well as the rich now. Its a strange combo, and it was never their plan, but it works for them. Most constituencies have lots of wealthy and/or chavs so theyll clean up, and we'll sit through 5 years of gross policies

Or maybe they appeal to people who don't mind a bit of hard graft and want the best for the country,what is it with the hate for people who have money that they have grafted for?

[user104658]

The reason the Tories currently appeal to certain more chavvy characters these days, I'm convinced, is simply because of their perceived popularity. Like a self fulfilling prophecy. There are many who, basically, just "like to win". Like to be able to say they are on, or are supporting, the "winning side" regardless of who or what that happens to be. So they will identify the group that they feel certain will win, and throw their support behind that group, just so that they can say "yyaaassss we won you lost we won!" at the end of it all.

I believe in football terms they call these people "glory hunters". People who suddenly declare their undying support for whichever team happens to be at the top of the league that year.

[Kazanne]

Well at the moment, the Tories are the only ones that are appealing to me, so I presumed I was one of these chavs? So I sarcastically called myself a chav, because that is what you labelled people like me.

I have no idea whether that answers your question or not, I've had a few beers, and this conversation is confusing me, I don't even know if we're talking on the same lines here.

Better a chav ,Alf than a lazy slob who is workshy and wants everything for nothing and giving nothing back.

[jaxie]

Once again lots of labelling and stereotyping going on most particularly from those who try to claim the moral high ground of the left. Do people even realize how much they are doing this? Or that using derogatory terms like chav is just as bad as using derogatory racist or sexist terms?

[Kazanne]

The reason the Tories currently appeal to certain more chavvy characters these days, I'm convinced, is simply because of their perceived popularity. Like a self fulfilling prophecy. There are many who, basically, just "like to win". Like to be able to say they are on, or are supporting, the "winning side" regardless of who or what that happens to be. So they will identify the group that they feel certain will win, and throw their support behind that group, just so that they can say "yyaaassss we won you lost we won!" at the end of it all.

I believe in football terms they call these people "glory hunters". People who suddenly declare their undying support for whichever team happens to be at the top of the league that year.

Well I suppose if it makes the losers feel better ,lol, the Tories appeal to me at the moment as they are the only party with some realistic policies and people with a bit of nouse,all the others seem a bit brain dead, and their followers seem to get annoyed easily and then start name calling,knock yourselves out:hehe:

[Kazanne]

Once again lots of labelling and stereotyping going on most particularly from those who try to claim the moral high ground of the left. Do people even realize how much they are doing this? Or that using derogatory terms like chav is just as bad as using derogatory racist or sexist terms?

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[RichardG]

I didn't realise people still used the word chav

Very 2010

[joeysteele]

Or maybe they appeal to people who don't mind a bit of hard graft and want the best for the country,what is it with the hate for people who have money that they have grafted for?

I don't mind hard graft and am happy to pay all my taxes and work darn hard and sometimes long hours too.
I'd never support this set of Conservative representatives because,while I am happy to do hard work.
I hate with a passion all that's been done and what I've come across, as the heartless robbing from the sick and disabled by this govt.

Where sick and disabled,incurable and terminally I'll have had to go to court to win back benefits wrongly taken off them or denied them
You may admired that as strong govt,I certainly don't.

They will pay multi millions to a French and American company to assess the UKs sick and disabled with the view of forcing people who cannot at this time work,or reduce the benefits they should be getting.

Saving a pittance in reality and then likely nothing at all when taxpayer funded court appeals are heard and won,which the vast majority are.

A rotten govt that demonstrates how rotten it is by how it treats the weakest,sick and disabled in its society.
It fills me with solid sadness and shame.

[Kazanne]

I don't mind hard graft and am happy to pay all my taxes and work darn hard and sometimes long hours too.
I'd never support this set of Conservative representatives because,while I am happy to do hard work.
I hate with a passion all that's been done and what I've come across, as the heartless robbing from the sick and disabled by this govt.

Where sick and disabled,incurable and terminally I'll have had to go to court to win back benefits wrongly taken off them or denied them
You may admired that as strong govt,I certainly don't.

They will pay multi millions to a French and American company to assess the UKs sick and disabled with the view of forcing people who cannot at this time work,or reduce the benefits they should be getting.

Saving a pittance in reality and then likely nothing at all when taxpayer funded court appeals are heard and won,which the vast majority are.

A rotten govt that demonstrates how rotten it is by how it treats the weakest,sick and disabled in its society.
It fills me with solid sadness and shame.

Hi Joey,I really don't think it's that bad,maybe we have just had different experiences,I know disabled people ,my mom looked after one until he passed away in October, he was always treated well and helped as much as he needed it,the only thing that was lacking was the pittance mom was given for looking after him,but she was ok with it as it wasn't about money for her, so I can only go on my experiences and at the moment Labour hold nothing enticing for me ,My nan is also a pensioner,she gets basic state pension,but manages fine on it,it depends what you want out of life and how you spend your money I think,she gets help with her fuel bills in the winter and most companies will do payment plans to accommodate her. I understand you may have not had good experiences from them,but at least you didn't stoop so low to call me a 'chav' I thank you for that:hehe:Oh and btw,IF the Tories ever bring back fox hunting,I will be a none voter.:wavey:

[ebandit]

Who are the chavs by the way?




there's me...................i'm pretty apathetic about the forthcoming election

...............won't even get any decent odds on the result

Mark L

[user104658]

Well I suppose if it makes the losers feel better ,lol, the Tories appeal to me at the moment as they are the only party with some realistic policies and people with a bit of nouse,all the others seem a bit brain dead, and their followers seem to get annoyed easily and then start name calling,knock yourselves out:hehe:
... She said, sounding annoyed and calling people "losers". :facepalm:

[Withano]

but at least you didn't stoop so low to call me a 'chav' I thank you for that:hehe:Oh and btw,IF the Tories ever bring back fox hunting,I will be a none voter.:wavey:

I suggested that they appeal to both of these populations, and that they didnt two years ago.

I have no idea if you're a chav or not and I certainly didnt say that you were.
Chavs exist, and I didnt use it as an insult.. you're presumed its an insult and you denounced an entire sub-culture of Britain which was a bit rude
I dont believe chavs would have voted for tories 2 years ago, but I have seen their fanbase get chavvier, thus tories have expanded their fanbase to at least one new area, there may be others - as Alf mentioned, they're also getting the backing of brexiteers
Feel free to contribute to the thread with your own ideas instead of putting down others

[Withano]

Or maybe they appeal to people who don't mind a bit of hard graft and want the best for the country

I think this describes most people in Britain, not just tory voters

[Withano]

Or that using derogatory terms like chav is just as bad as using derogatory racist or sexist terms?

Since when was chav a derogatory term at all. Why are you putting it on the same level as racism and sexism. Completely inappropriate.

[Kizzy]

Once again lots of labelling and stereotyping going on most particularly from those who try to claim the moral high ground of the left. Do people even realize how much they are doing this? Or that using derogatory terms like chav is just as bad as using derogatory racist or sexist terms?

It isn't as bad, using a modern slang term is not as bad as being racist or sexist, maybe those on the left are just more aware of this differential?

Personally I don't think that there is any such thing as a 'chav' it's another made up term to describe a those who fall into a certain socio economic group. There are terms used as a collective term for many groups, 'PC' 'snowflakes' or 'SJWs'

If you have used a collective term yourself it's hard not to suggest you're being hypocritical to finger wag when others do it.

[Kazanne]

... She said, sounding annoyed and calling people "losers". :facepalm:

Well whats good for the goose is good for the gander,not nice is it?

[Kazanne]

I have no idea if you're a chav or not and I certainly didnt say that you were.
Chavs exist, and I didnt use it as an insult.. you're presumed its an insult and you denounced an entire sub-culture of Britain which was a bit rude
I dont believe chavs would have voted for tories 2 years ago, but I have seen their fanbase get chavvier, thus tories have expanded their fanbase to at least one new area, there may be others - as Alf mentioned, they're also getting the backing of brexiteers
Feel free to contribute to the thread with your own ideas instead of putting down others

I never mentioned you in my post :shrug:

[user104658]

Well whats good for the goose is good for the gander,not nice is it?
I have no problem with people "being insulting" actually. However, I don't like hypocrites. Whining about people name calling whilst name calling, for example.

[Kazanne]

I have no problem with people "being insulting" actually. However, I don't like hypocrites. Whining about people name calling whilst name calling, for example.

Good way out of that one eh?:laugh: I wasn't being a hypocrite ,I was giving an example,as we were labelled as 'chavs' but no bother that you chose to ignore that.

[user104658]

I know disabled people ,my mom looked after one until he passed away in October, he was always treated well and helped as much as he needed it

Oh this changes everything! Your mum "looked after one". I didn't realise that you had a family member who had cared for "one of those". You probably know all about it, then. I for one will be much more comfortable deferring to your extensive knowledge and experience of "those" from now on.

[Withano]

Why am I still explain half a sentence from one post 38 posts later lol

Clarification
I dont think all tory voters are chavs and/or wealthy
I dont think all wealthy are tory voters
I dont think all chavs are tory voters
I think chavs and wealthy people are two populations that the tories appeal to in general
I dont think they had the same fanbase two years ago
I think that this is one of the reasons that tory will win, they are expanding in to new groups, whilst their competition is not
I also dont think chav is a derogatory term, there was a mixup about that too
I also take issue with people proposing its on a similar level to racism and sexism

[user104658]

Why am I still explain half a sentence from one post 38 posts later lol

Because it's TiBB and people will decide that your posts mean what they want them to mean, so that they can agenda-whine in response (whilst pretending to be amused but oozing passive aggression). Pretty standard, really.

[Kazanne]

Oh this changes everything! Your mum "looked after one". I didn't realise that you had a family member who had cared for "one of those". You probably know all about it, then. I for one will be much more comfortable deferring to your extensive knowledge and experience of "those" from now on.

What a nasty person you are, you just quoted that part of my post to suit your agenda,I gave JOEY ,my reasons for how I was voting nothing to do with you,the gent she looked after was a family friend for years and not " one of those" and he was a great loss, Joey knows this,so butt out ,with your insensitive remarks.

[user104658]

What a nasty person you are, you just quoted that part of my post to suit your agenda,I gave JOEY ,my reasons for how I was voting nothing to do with you,the gent she looked after was a family friend for years and not " one of those" and he was a great loss, Joey knows this,so butt out ,with your insensitive remarks.

I quoted it because it was the part that jumped out at me, because it makes it abundantly clear that you think that all disabled people roughly fall under the same heading and that knowing about the issues of one individual means that you have any idea about the complex nature of the struggles faced by the disabled or those who care for them.

If you want to talk to just Joey, PM Joey. If you want your posts to be open and free for analysis and comment, post them publicly on a debate forum. As you did.

[Livia]

Since when was chav a derogatory term at all. Why are you putting it on the same level as racism and sexism. Completely inappropriate.

I had a post deleted because I said someone looked like a redneck. I'd say chav was just as insulting... more so in fact.

[Livia]

What a nasty person you are, you just quoted that part of my post to suit your agenda,I gave JOEY ,my reasons for how I was voting nothing to do with you,the gent she looked after was a family friend for years and not " one of those" and he was a great loss, Joey knows this,so butt out ,with your insensitive remarks.

Ignore button. x

[Kazanne]

Ignore button. x

I think so xx :wavey:

[Withano]

I had a post deleted because I said someone looked like a redneck. I'd say chav was just as insulting... more so in fact.

Seems like you were getting personal.. 'looks like a chav' probably would be a similar level I agree, but I'd never get that personal, no need for it. Both groups exist, stating it so isn't the problem.

[user104658]

I think so xx :wavey:

:bawling: Oh no.

[Livia]

Seems like you were getting personal.. 'looks like a chav' probably would be a similar level I agree, but I'd never get that personal, no need for it. Both groups exist, stating it so isn't the problem.

I was referring to a housemate in Big Brother.

For an intelligent person, you do talk some rubbish sometimes, Withano, you really do.

[Withano]

I was referring to a housemate in Big Brother.

For an intelligent person, you do talk some rubbish sometimes, Withano, you really do.

Well, I'm not a mindreader, Livia, nor have I read through every single one of your posts.
I don't know why your post was deleted - seems fine to me - the way you described it anyway... although I rarely comment on peoples looks so I dont know where the line is there, I'm not the guy to ask.

[Livia]

Well, I'm not a mindreader, Livia, nor have I read through every single one of your posts.
I don't know why your post was deleted - seems fine to me - the way you described it anyway... although I rarely comment on peoples looks so I dont know where the line is there, I'm not the guy to ask.

I'm not asking you. I'm saying the term CHAV is insulting. I was drawing a comparison. You were wrong to use the term in my opinion, and no amount of semantics and denial is going to change that.

[user104658]

I was referring to a housemate in Big Brother.

For an intelligent person, you do talk some rubbish sometimes, Withano, you really do.

Redneck is racials because it specifically refers to a specific group, i.e. white people from a certain area. Chavs can be of any ethnicity and can be found all across the UK :hee:.

Stop being so racist about rednecks, Livia :nono:

[Withano]

I'm not asking you. I'm saying the term CHAV is insulting. I was drawing a comparison. You were wrong to use the term in my opinion, and no amount of semantics and denial is going to change that.

Oh I disagree, I've never used it as an insult. I know people who would use that phrase to describe themselves, its just a sub-culture of Britain that shows no sign of fading. I also dont find the words goths, emos, jocks etc offensive, they're just british sub-cultures.. but each to their own.

[user104658]

Oh I disagree, I've never used it as an insult. I know people who would use that phrase to describe themselves, its just a sub-culture of Britain that shows no sign of fading. I also dont find the words goths, emos, jocks etc offensive, they're just british sub-cultures.. but each to their own.

I agree, what's the point in ignoring a culture that quite blatantly exists?

That said... I will openly admit that I don't particularly like the majority of chavs :think:.

[joeysteele]

Hi Joey,I really don't think it's that bad,maybe we have just had different experiences,I know disabled people ,my mom looked after one until he passed away in October, he was always treated well and helped as much as he needed it,the only thing that was lacking was the pittance mom was given for looking after him,but she was ok with it as it wasn't about money for her, so I can only go on my experiences and at the moment Labour hold nothing enticing for me ,My nan is also a pensioner,she gets basic state pension,but manages fine on it,it depends what you want out of life and how you spend your money I think,she gets help with her fuel bills in the winter and most companies will do payment plans to accommodate her. I understand you may have not had good experiences from them,but at least you didn't stoop so low to call me a 'chav' I thank you for that:hehe:Oh and btw,IF the Tories ever bring back fox hunting,I will be a none voter.:wavey:

It is that bad Kazanne.

I've seen people,plural,needing dialysis and with only limited time left to live
With several other major health issues,wheeled into court after being put in wrag group rather than support group.
Who have had benefits cut when being forced to apply for pip from dla.

The DWP rejecting a change to their decisions, govt doing nothing at all about it.
Then again it's govt guidelines that cause the problem.

So into court they have to go and all that time and added extra stress piled on them
Where in fact the last estimate is that two thirds of court appeals are won in full.

Any govt presiding over that for me deserves contempt and derision not admiration.

As to foxhunting,she will bring it back if she gets a bigger majority.
She will,I predict,likely make it a freevote on the issue but the intake of extreme Con MPs, who want this back,will ensure it is, with their bgger overall majority and therefore the numbers increased of Con MPs

Just more to have contempt for their thinking for and Theresa May is a strong supporter of bringing such barbaric hunting back too.
Too late to change it again once it is voted back for sure.

It will happen.
They could not get it back in the Coalition,the Lib Dems against it and Labour etc:

This 12 majority is also not enough to win a hunting back vote with certainty.
A bigger majority will ensure it this time though.
I'd never myself support that or even risk it coming about.

[smudgie]

So basically the Tories are finding popualrity amongst more people, from all walks of life.:cheer2:

[Denver]

Corbyn doesn't care about his party and supporters and because of that he has played into the Conservative hands

[Withano]

So basically the Tories are finding popualrity amongst more people, from all walks of life.:cheer2:

This is the basic summary of my theory! I should have probably worded it like this instead :joker: somebody else mentioned the Brexit vote which I also think is a good theory.

[Kizzy]

Oh it's been known for years, it began with the bish bosh 'Essex man' and snowballed from there.

'The Oxford English Dictionary (OED) lists the earliest reference to the Essex man as one from 7 October 1990 in The Sunday Telegraph, although a reference to 26 January 1990 issue of Campaign: "Representative [David Amess] of new Essex man, working-class, father electrician, right-wing, keen hanger, noisily rambunctious, no subtlety".'


neo liberal 'chav'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essex_man

[joeysteele]

So basically the Tories are finding popualrity amongst more people, from all walks of life.:cheer2:

I wouldn't say popularity and I also feel a great many who may end up giving this lot a much bigger majority,will be deeply regretting it soon afterwards.

Often votes are given very begrudgingly and many votes for Labour will be too.
I know many more votes would go to Labour,if Corbyn was not leader.

Once austerity is continued,once even more hardline testing and moving the goalposts as to the sick and disabled rightful claims.
Not to mention more confrontational acts as to the NHS.

Once a much less probably compromising dealing with the Brexit issue comes into play.
I won't add here things like foxhunting.Kazanne and I have long United together detested the very idea of that legal again.

So I see a good many voters in a year or so,full of likely regret after putting that cross for the Conservatives.
Sadly with an increased majority,the bad effect of the things this deceitful PM will then do, will be firmly in place and a great many in great stress and suffering from said legislation.

[smudgie]

I wouldn't say popularity and I also feel a great many who may end up giving this lot a much bigger majority,will be deeply regretting it soon afterwards.

Often votes are given very begrudgingly and many votes for Labour will be too.
I know many more votes would go to Labour,if Corbyn was not leader.

Once austerity is continued,once even more hardline testing and moving the goalposts as to the sick and disabled rightful claims.
Not to mention more confrontational acts as to the NHS.

Once a much less probably compromising dealing with the Brexit issue comes into play.
I won't add here things like foxhunting.Kazanne and I have long United together detested the very idea of that legal again.

So I see a good many voters in a year or so,full of likely regret after putting that cross for the Conservatives.
Sadly with an increased majority,the bad effect of the things this deceitful PM will then do, will be firmly in place and a great many in great stress and suffering from said legislation.

I definitely have to agree with your point about Mr.Corbyn, for all he does attract more members to the party he at the same time loses votes from a lot of what would normally be labour voters.
Had they changed the leadership then I reckon labour would be doing much better in this election.

[Kizzy]

But they had a leadership election, it was a democratic process... and the best man won.

[Denver]

Andy Burnham isn't leader though

[Kizzy]

He didn't win the vote that's why, if more members want someone else that's how it is I'm afraid :/

[Denver]

He should have stepped down when he failed not continued

[smudgie]

But they had a leadership election, it was a democratic process... and the best man won.

Fair process...but they are screwed if he is the best to offer.

[Kizzy]

Why, what's wrong with him?...

[smudgie]

Why, what's wrong with him?...

The voters don't appear to trust him, or his policies.
All give give give and no real accountability of where the funding is coming from.
Just more of the Labour borrowing that we can't afford.
We hear all the promises that the tax rises etc will pay for it all but it is not convincing many, otherwise he would be doing better than he is in the popularity stakes:shrug:

[DemolitionRed]

The voters don't appear to trust him, or his policies.
All give give give and no real accountability of where the funding is coming from.
Just more of the Labour borrowing that we can't afford.
We hear all the promises that the tax rises etc will pay for it all but it is not convincing many, otherwise he would be doing better than he is in the popularity stakes:shrug:

Sorry but I'm going to quote your post from your last paragraph and then work backwards!!

The reason his monetary policies can't convince the masses is because the masses, generally have little idea about how fiscal borrowing/spending works. Now before a certain person jumps in and accuses me of downgrading a populations intelligence, its nothing to do with intelligence and all to do with an interest in political economics... or not. Even my parents (god love em) who are high flying professionals liken fiscal spending/saving/borrowing to how they run their own household. Most people simply don't care about GDP levels so long as their own standard of living is okay.

We can afford to borrow. We can afford to stop austerity and we can afford to spend. If we want our economy to grow and prosper, we have to do all of those things.

I know the British government are always telling us how well they are doing and how popular media echo those sentiments but at this moment in time we are in financial crisis and that crisis is set to deepen because we are running on empty. The Tories are putting their money under the austerity mattress even though they know its a failed experiment and if something radical doesn't happen soon, we are all going to hit depressing times.

[joeysteele]

The voters don't appear to trust him, or his policies.
All give give give and no real accountability of where the funding is coming from.
Just more of the Labour borrowing that we can't afford.
We hear all the promises that the tax rises etc will pay for it all but it is not convincing many, otherwise he would be doing better than he is in the popularity stakes:shrug:


I think the costings will add up once the manifesto is out.
This lot have borrowed loads too,to be fair.

I also think Corbyn has policies that would attract many voters.
However therein brings the problem
For whatever reasons,rightly or wrongly the voters he needs are sadly not listening.
Neil Kinnock apparently took Labour and Shook it up strongly but could not also reach voters either.

Corbyn would have done better leaving a legacy of policies and letting a new leader convey the message.
A leader should not be a barrier to a whole Party winning power in my view,I have to concede however that Jeremy Corbyn has not connected.

Labour as a govt though is still my choice as to voting.
I just hope enough join me to stop this woman getting a bigger majority and even hopefully remove the one she already had.

[Kizzy]

The voters don't appear to trust him, or his policies.
All give give give and no real accountability of where the funding is coming from.
Just more of the Labour borrowing that we can't afford.
We hear all the promises that the tax rises etc will pay for it all but it is not convincing many, otherwise he would be doing better than he is in the popularity stakes:shrug:

The under 40s prefer him to may though, he is appealing to many.
The manifesto will spell it out, if we had had clear accounting or anything at all from team may I would say you have a point, but at the moment I just don't see anything other than the usual media driven slurs.

[jaxie]

Since when was chav a derogatory term at all. Why are you putting it on the same level as racism and sexism. Completely inappropriate.

Oh I see it's only a problem if you aren't saying it. :shrug:

[Niamh.]

Deleted some posts in here, stay on topic, stop discussing eachother etc etc

[joeysteele]

Sorry but I'm going to quote your post from your last paragraph and then work backwards!!

The reason his monetary policies can't convince the masses is because the masses, generally have little idea about how fiscal borrowing/spending works. Now before a certain person jumps in and accuses me of downgrading a populations intelligence, its nothing to do with intelligence and all to do with an interest in political economics... or not. Even my parents (god love em) who are high flying professionals liken fiscal spending/saving/borrowing to how they run their own household. Most people simply don't care about GDP levels so long as their own standard of living is okay.

We can afford to borrow. We can afford to stop austerity and we can afford to spend. If we want our economy to grow and prosper, we have to do all of those things.

I know the British government are always telling us how well they are doing and how popular media echo those sentiments but at this moment in time we are in financial crisis and that crisis is set to deepen because we are running on empty. The Tories are putting their money under the austerity mattress even though they know its a failed experiment and if something radical doesn't happen soon, we are all going to hit depressing times.

Excellent post DR.
Really well said.

[smudgie]

Sorry but I'm going to quote your post from your last paragraph and then work backwards!!

The reason his monetary policies can't convince the masses is because the masses, generally have little idea about how fiscal borrowing/spending works. Now before a certain person jumps in and accuses me of downgrading a populations intelligence, its nothing to do with intelligence and all to do with an interest in political economics... or not. Even my parents (god love em) who are high flying professionals liken fiscal spending/saving/borrowing to how they run their own household. Most people simply don't care about GDP levels so long as their own standard of living is okay.

We can afford to borrow. We can afford to stop austerity and we can afford to spend. If we want our economy to grow and prosper, we have to do all of those things.

I know the British government are always telling us how well they are doing and how popular media echo those sentiments but at this moment in time we are in financial crisis and that crisis is set to deepen because we are running on empty. The Tories are putting their money under the austerity mattress even though they know its a failed experiment and if something radical doesn't happen soon, we are all going to hit depressing times.

Perhaps there could be truth in what you say, I don't know, but it just doesn't alter the fact that he isn't trusted enough to vote for.
Not just the fiscal aspects but on other issues as well.
Brexit and his stance on defending the country haven't gone down well at all.

[Cherie]

Perhaps there could be truth in what you say, I don't know, but it just doesn't alter the fact that he isn't trusted enough to vote for.
Not just the fiscal aspects but on other issues as well.
Brexit and his stance on defending the country haven't gone down well at all.

I don't understand his stance on Brexit, he was a remainer but wanted out really, what is he now?

[smudgie]

I don't understand his stance on Brexit, he was a remainer but wanted out really, what is he now?

Therein lies the problem.
We don't know, if he made more of it either way then the voters would know exactly how he stands.

[Withano]

Oh I see it's only a problem if you aren't saying it. :shrug:

Its never been a problem (in my eyes) for reasons I've explained throughout the thread
comparing a word that describes a British sub-culture, to words that describe actual hatred towards entire sexes, genders, races, and ethnicities is bizarre, and completely inappropriate.

[Alf]

Therein lies the problem.
We don't know, if he made more of it either way then the voters would know exactly how he stands.He's been in politics all his adult life, he's a career politician who is out of touch with real people. He doesn't know how to answer a question honestly, because he doesn't even know the answer.

I don't think he's a bad man, and he's well intentioned. But the bottom line is, he's a fool.

[JTM45]

Oh and btw,IF the Tories ever bring back fox hunting,I will be a none voter.:wavey:

May is all for re-introducing the vile 'pastime' of fox hunting and there's a very good chance that it'll happen once the election is out of the way.

So, if you needed any more, there's yet another fantastic reason to not vote Conservative (there's many more even worse reasons).

[DemolitionRed]

He's been in politics all his adult life, he's a career politician who is out of touch with real people. He doesn't know how to answer a question honestly, because he doesn't even know the answer.

I don't think he's a bad man, and he's well intentioned. But the bottom line is, he's a fool.

I believe he's more in touch with the British public than most MP's. He just doesn't know how to get his message across. He comes over as, not passionate enough and not progressive enough and we all know, if he ever got in, there is going to be some fairly radical changes. We are Brits, we don't like change!!

As for answering a question honestly, I think he holds back on questions because he won't lie. This is why he's not a good salesman; he refuses to sell us something he can't make happen.

[joeysteele]

May is all for re-introducing the vile 'pastime' of fox hunting and there's a very good chance that it'll happen once the election is out of the way.

So, if you needed any more, there's yet another fantastic reason to not vote Conservative (there's many more even worse reasons).


That is a main reason I have little time for Theresa May,she is a strong supporter of this vile barbaric hunting.

I really don't and don't even want to try to understand the thinking of people who can support this.
The fact it is the Conservative party that want to bring it back is also very telling for me.

If she gets returned with a bigger majority,there will be a vote on it,David Cameron wanted it back too.
Too late to stop it if she is sitting there with a bigger majority of her own MPs after this election,she will then have the numbers to ensure the vote to make it legal again, will get passed.

This is a big issue for me for I hold nothing but contempt for those who think this right and worse still a sport.

[JTM45]

Once again lots of labelling and stereotyping going on most particularly from those who try to claim the moral high ground of the left.

Oh........The Irony of it!!!!!:laugh3:

[Kizzy]

e1l1XGiXgo0

[Livia]

That's what we need, 20+ year old satire.

[DemolitionRed]

e1l1XGiXgo0



where do you find these gems? :joker:

[Livia]

where do you find these gems? :joker:

Youtube.

[Kizzy]

Youtube.

I don't need you to talk for me thanks :)

It's still as pertinent today as it was then wouldn't you say though?

[smudgie]

That's what we need, 20+ year old satire.

Yeah, well Mr. Corbyn and cronies are going very retro going by their manifesto.
Talk about turning the clock back,:joker::joker::joker:

[Kizzy]

We need to turn back the clock... what has the clock going forward done for us? Nothing we are worse off now than we were then much worse :/

Schools, NHS, housing, mental health provision, social care public services they are at an all time low.


Get that clock back now!!

[joeysteele]

We need to turn back the clock... what has the clock going forward done for us? Nothing we are worse off now than we were then much worse :/

Schools, NHS, housing, mental health provision, social care public services they are at an all time low.


Get that clock back now!!


Absolutely right.

The Cons answer is,only more of the same failed policies.
If anyone is turning clocks back after recent announcements it's Mrs May.

[Kizzy]

''It’s certainly transformative what the Labour Party is suggesting here, and I think it’s important to be clear that this is not just about tax and spending; this is about the state getting deeply involved in much more of the private sector than it has been, certainly since the 1970s, and perhaps since the 1940s, with respect to, say, telling banks which branches they can’t close; setting minimum wages for a quarter of private sector workers and about 60% of young people, and dramatically improving labour regulation. All of those things are utterly different from anything we’ve experienced in many, many decades.

If you take what’s here at face value, then much of it I think is unprecedented even in the 1970s. This is a level of state intervention that probably goes back more decades than that.'


They may be different to what we have currently, and that is specifically why they're a good thing, we WANT wage protections and indeed regulation, what has deregulation caused other than corruption and reduced standards across industries affected?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2017/may/11/general-election-2017-labour-leaked-manifesto-politics-live

[Kizzy]

The fail mocking a 66yr old man falling on concrete steps, and blaming Corbyn when the police vehicle carrying him runs over a journalists foot... You couldn't make it up :/

[Kizzy]

Yeah, well Mr. Corbyn and cronies are going very retro going by their manifesto.
Talk about turning the clock back,:joker::joker::joker:

Ahem...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1457047/Remember-1976-Britains-best-ever-year.html

[Brillopad]

Ahem...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1457047/Remember-1976-Britains-best-ever-year.html

That was one year in a time not so under pressure by unacceptable and unsustainable levels of immigration.

Perhaps you should read up about the three-day week and the winter of discontent in the 70s.

[Kizzy]

That was one year in a time not so under pressure by unacceptable and unsustainable levels of immigration.

Perhaps you should read up about the three-day week and the winter of discontent in the 70s.

I have thank you I have been a student of sociological perspectives, the 3 day week was imposed by the conservative government it was due to the oil crisis but blamed on the miners to corrode public support.

76 was a boom year fast forward to 1980 and we have 3 million unemployed. The winter of discontent was in part strangely due to the weather, as the conditions actually affected spending and trade. There were also strikes due to wage caps, how is that ant different to now? Our public sector workers are in a state of permanent discontent!
Except there's no 5% limit on wage increases is there? The country is floundering and yet MPs want their 11%

I suggest you read about it as you have apparently missed the message.