A Referendum to Abolish the NHS

[UserSince2005]

Imagine this scenario:
The government has set out a referendum to abolish the NHS.
In its place, people with savings under a threshold (say £2k) and not in work would be eligible for free health care.
As well as children under the age of 18 and senior citizens.
Every other person would be required to provide themselves with health insurance or whatever they deemed sensible.

How would you vote?

[smudgie]

Imagine this scenario:
The government has set out a referendum to abolish the NHS.
In its place, people with savings under a threshold (say £2k) and not in work would be eligible for free health care.
As well as children under the age of 18 and senior citizens.
Every other person would be required to provide themselves with health insurance or whatever they deemed sensible.

How would you vote?

Against.
People could be saving for a new car, rainy day, helping their kids get to uni etc.
£2k is hardly a fortune and would be gone within the first year if a person in the family has ongoing health issues.
We all pay in as it is, pehaps we could be enticed into paying a bit more if we know it is ring fenced for NHS and care.

[Niamh.]

I'm not a citizen of the UK but if I were I would vote No, health care should be a human right and a top priority for every government imo

[Scarlett.]

Keep the NHS, healthcare should be free for all.

The alternative is this...
http://68.media.tumblr.com/903fa33e8260c60919d070863efd7753/tumblr_mzt8ewG9Bm1smsd90o7_1280.jpg

[joeysteele]

Solidly 100% against.

[JTM45]

If any British citizen thinks that 'abolishing' the NHS would be a good idea then they're either wealthy enough that any level of medical treatment that could be necessary in their lifetime is affordable to them or they don't understand what the NHS actually is and how important it us to us.
Even if you are wealthy enough to afford 100% private healthcare if you're a decent human being you would still be strongly against ever scrapping the NHS because of the devastating effect it would have on those who need it the most. The elderly, people with Mental Health problems, the unemployed and anyone who can't afford to shell out possibly tens/hundreds of thousands of pounds when they need an operation or become seriously ill.

Sadly the droves who are preparing to vote Conservative in the upcoming election seem to be missing the fact that there's nothing the tories would love more than to scrap the NHS.

[DemolitionRed]

If any British citizen thinks that 'abolishing' the NHS would be a good idea then they're either wealthy enough that any level of medical treatment that could be necessary in their lifetime is affordable to them or they don't understand what the NHS actually is and how important it us to us.
Even if you are wealthy enough to afford 100% private healthcare if you're a decent human being you would still be strongly against ever scrapping the NHS because of the devastating effect it would have on those who need it the most. The elderly, people with Mental Health problems, the unemployed and anyone who can't afford to shell out possibly tens/hundreds of thousands of pounds when they need an operation or become seriously ill.

Sadly the droves who are preparing to vote Conservative in the upcoming election seem to be missing the fact that there's nothing the tories would love more than to scrap the NHS.

Well said.

[Tom4784]

Anyone who isn't loaded that would vote yes is a fool.

[Denver]

It needs reforms

[DemolitionRed]

Regardless of medical insurance, which would be on par with a hefty mortgage, you will be exempt from cancer treatment or whatever, if you have suffered from that in the past.

Having had horses, I always paid the hefty insurance, even though I had one horse who's all four legs were exempt!. When my Lusitano got peritonitis and had to be operated on, the bill his insurers paid was £22,000 but because peritonitis has a tendency to reoccur, he became exempt for that sort of treatment.

[Tom4784]

It needs reforms

It doesn't, that's just what the Tories are telling you so you'll be more inclined in letting them choke it to death.

It's struggling BECAUSE the Tories are trying to kill it, Jeremy Hunt provoking and antagonising the Junior Doctors into turning away from the NHS, the constant cutting of funding. These are all choices made by the Tories in order to privatise and shift us into a Insurance based system which benefits no one but the rich and the corporations who will profit from it all.

Honestly, if you care about your future and don't want to face the potential prospect of dying of something treatable because you can't afford treatment you would have gotten on the NHS then consider your vote carefully. The horror stories that come from the US should convince anyone to fight for the NHS.

Everything else in this election is white noise, the NHS is the only thing that matters. Vote wisely.

[Denver]

It doesn't, that's just what the Tories are telling you so you'll be more inclined in letting them choke it to death.

It's struggling BECAUSE the Tories are trying to kill it, Jeremy Hunt provoking and antagonising the Junior Doctors into turning away from the NHS, the constant cutting of funding. These are all choices made by the Tories in order to privatise and shift us into a Insurance based system which benefits no one but the rich and the corporations who will profit from it all.

Honestly, if you care about your future and don't want to face the potential prospect of dying of something treatable because you can't afford treatment you would have gotten on the NHS then consider your vote carefully. The horror stories that come from the US should convince anyone to fight for the NHS.

Everything else in this election is white noise, the NHS is the only thing that matters. Vote wisely.

There are things free on the NHS that shouldnt be

[Northern Monkey]

The NHS is a great thing.We are very fortunate in this country to have such a system.
I definitely think some grownup conversations need to be had on the subject as it has outgrown itself.
People are living longer in part thanks to the NHS,Immigration is at an all time high and it's cost has got much higher.
It would be nice to keep the NHS forever but at its current trajectory it is only going one way and that is down.It's unsustainable and will have to end at some point unless something drastic is worked out.
Higher taxes possibly and reduced immigration.You can't raise taxes forever though and spending will overtake tax increases eventually.

[joeysteele]

If any British citizen thinks that 'abolishing' the NHS would be a good idea then they're either wealthy enough that any level of medical treatment that could be necessary in their lifetime is affordable to them or they don't understand what the NHS actually is and how important it us to us.
Even if you are wealthy enough to afford 100% private healthcare if you're a decent human being you would still be strongly against ever scrapping the NHS because of the devastating effect it would have on those who need it the most. The elderly, people with Mental Health problems, the unemployed and anyone who can't afford to shell out possibly tens/hundreds of thousands of pounds when they need an operation or become seriously ill.

Sadly the droves who are preparing to vote Conservative in the upcoming election seem to be missing the fact that there's nothing the tories would love more than to scrap the NHS.

Absolutely right.
Really well said.

[Tom4784]

There are things free on the NHS that shouldnt be

White noise.

If the worst happens and you or a loved one develop, say, cancer. Do you want to face the prospect of not being able to afford treatment? Because like I said before, you only have to look at the US's insurance based health system if you want a glimpse into our future if the NHS dies. People die in the US all the time because they can't afford treatment. Is the prospect of that worth voting Tory just because you disagree with people getting boob jobs on the NHS?

Choose who you vote for carefully, I'm not trying to score points or debate an issue or be mean here. I just want you to really think about what matters and to vote from a place of understanding which party will honestly help your situation. Would the NHS dying benefit you?

[Withano]

I'd probably have a cheeky bet on 50%+ of the country voting to abolish it if this did happen irl

[Denver]

White noise.

If the worst happens and you or a loved one develop, say, cancer. Do you want to face the prospect of not being able to afford treatment? Because like I said before, you only have to look at the US's insurance based health system if you want a glimpse into our future if the NHS dies. People die in the US all the time because they can't afford treatment. Is the prospect of that worth voting Tory just because you disagree with people getting boob jobs on the NHS?

Choose who you vote for carefully, I'm not trying to score points or debate an issue or be mean here. I just want you to really think about what matters and to vote from a place of understanding which party will honestly help your situation. Would the NHS dying benefit you?

I am not saying get rid of it i am saying they could save a lot of money for example making a man pay for a Vasectomy because it isnt a medical need if they dont want children either pay for it or use a condom.

Also they need to ban people filling up A&E with simply treatable things like flu

[UserSince2005]

If the worst happens and you or a loved one develop, say, cancer. Do you want to face the prospect of not being able to afford treatment? Because like I said before, you only have to look at the US's insurance based health system if you want a glimpse into our future if the NHS dies. People die in the US all the time because they can't afford treatment. Is the prospect of that worth voting Tory just because you disagree with people getting boob jobs on the NHS?


But I did see a programme on channel 4 the other week about junior doctors and this women was told that she couldnt have her cancer scan and treatment because they were over run that day, allowing more time for the cancer to spread. it was devostatingly sad. here family were there with her and the NHS let them all down
I scared that will be me one day.

[Tom4784]

I am not saying get rid of it i am saying they could save a lot of money for example making a man pay for a Vasectomy because it isnt a medical need if they dont want children either pay for it or use a condom.

Also they need to ban people filling up A&E with simply treatable things like flu

I could agree with that further on down the line when we know that the NHS's future is secure because it isn't at the moment. There's not much point in worrying about Vasectomies on the NHS if it no longer exists.

[UserSince2005]

I'd probably have a cheeky bet on 50%+ of the country voting to abolish it if this did happen irl

I would too.

The way it is condemned by even the people who work there for how terrible it has become. I understand that they are probably over exaggerating in the hope of government action.

But i think it gives the wrong message and people might just vote for more money in their pay packet at the end of each month.

[Withano]

I would too.

The way it is condemned by even the people who work there for how terrible it has become. I understand that they are probably over exaggerating in the hope of government action.

But i think it gives the wrong message and people might just vote for more money in their pay packet at the end of each month.

It would undoubtedly be the wrong decision, I just have little faith in 50%+ of British citizens atm.. it will probs be like 20/1 odds too, well worth a bet. Might even win enough to afford the first decade of a non-nhs country!

[DemolitionRed]

I am not saying get rid of it i am saying they could save a lot of money for example making a man pay for a Vasectomy because it isnt a medical need if they dont want children either pay for it or use a condom.

Also they need to ban people filling up A&E with simply treatable things like flu

whilst I agree with you about the clogging up of A&E for minor ailments, a vasectomy is funded by the tax payer.

[JTM45]

But I did see a programme on channel 4 the other week about junior doctors and this women was told that she couldnt have her cancer scan and treatment because they were over run that day, allowing more time for the cancer to spread. it was devostatingly sad. here family were there with her and the NHS let them all down
I scared that will be me one day.

It's not the NHS that's letting people down though. They can only do what they are funded to do and given what they are given to work with they do an absolutely amazing job!
Because we've had the NHS all of our lives in the UK people tend to take it for granted. Because we've never really had to think about paying out of our own pockets every time we're sick or if we have an accident a lot of people forget just how good we've got it.

Just imagine if we didn't have the NHS ? There'd be a lot more people not getting scans then and a lot more people would just put seeking medical help off because of the costs involved.
You only have to look at the effect it had when dentists started turning NHS patients away because the government were stiffing them and not keeping their side of the deal.
In most areas of the UK it's very difficult and sometimes impossible to find a Dentist who will treat you if your an NHS patient. That's why a lot of people just don't end up getting dental treatment and end up losing most of their teeth.

We need the NHS now more than ever!

[Greg!]

Who in their right mind would want to abolish it. The NHS is one of this country's best achievements

[DemolitionRed]

I would too.

The way it is condemned by even the people who work there for how terrible it has become. I understand that they are probably over exaggerating in the hope of government action.

But i think it gives the wrong message and people might just vote for more money in their pay packet at the end of each month.

Most people who work for the NHS know its being sold off. So much of it has already been privatized. Here is a list of some of the things that have been and are still being siphoned off to corporate companies.

GP surgeries
GP Our-of-Hours services
Walk in centres
Urgent care and minor injury units
Diagnostic services
(including pathology and imaging)
Maternity care
Advice about which services are commissioned
Decisions about patients are prioritised
Non-emergency surgery(including treatment centres)
whole hospitals, including A&E
Community nursing
Up to forty other community services
(including podiatry, diabetes and physiotherapy)
Ambulance services
Prison health
Mental health services
pathology and surgery

So there's not much left to sell. All of these things above are 'for profit' businesses and many are failing because it wasn't the golden egg the government promised it to be. At least not yet.

Doctors are outraged because the lack of staff and masses of paperwork to ensure treating Mr Brown is financially viable has taken over from what we once had. The NHS is as much as finished. All what's left is a few small crumbs The real money comes when (and this is in the final detail) the government no longer pays (through taxes) a subsidy for each patient. When that part is privatized, that's when we start buying medical insurance.

The whole things been mapped out down to the finest detail. In the mean time, we the public are buying the lie.

[DemolitionRed]

Who in their right mind would want to abolish it. The NHS is one of this country's best achievements

Yes but its a socialist idea :fist:

[Livia]

We'd be stupid to abolish the NHS. However... money is poured into it year on year and a certain amount of that money is mismanaged. Anyone who's ever had any dealings with the NHS will be able to see that. It needs to be managed better and I personally would willingly pay more for it.

[Kazanne]

We'd be stupid to abolish the NHS. However... money is poured into it year on year and a certain amount of that money is mismanaged. Anyone who's ever had any dealings with the NHS will be able to see that. It needs to be managed better and I personally would willingly pay more for it.

100% agree with this.

[Alf]

Let Uncle Alfie tell you how we can pay for the NHS.


JLtcMa3xyDo

[Tom4784]

Who in their right mind would want to abolish it. The NHS is one of this country's best achievements

Considering how the Tories have fooled the Working/Middle classes into thinking that voting for them is a good idea, anything is possible.

Mention immigrants, benefits or terrorism and people will vote for you regardless of your actual policies.

[Tregard]

Considering how the Tories have fooled the Working/Middle classes into thinking that voting for them is a good idea, anything is possible.

Mention immigrants, benefits or terrorism and people will vote for you regardless of your actual policies.

"If we abolish the NHS and rebuild it from scratch, we can ensure it is locked down to only serving the hard-working citizens of Great Britain, and not spending taxpayer money on handouts for foreign travellers"

^ Some ****e like that

Anyone who would vote against the NHS in a single-issue vote like that is a masochist, but the public has surprised me a lot in the recent past.

[joeysteele]

Considering how the Tories have fooled the Working/Middle classes into thinking that voting for them is a good idea, anything is possible.

Mention immigrants, benefits or terrorism and people will vote for you regardless of your actual policies.

That's a scary thought but on reflection right what you say.
Very worrying.

[Alf]

Considering how the Tories have fooled the Working/Middle classes into thinking that voting for them is a good idea, anything is possible.

Mention immigrants, benefits or terrorism and people will vote for you regardless of your actual policies.Jackanory.

[Cherie]

We'd be stupid to abolish the NHS. However... money is poured into it year on year and a certain amount of that money is mismanaged. Anyone who's ever had any dealings with the NHS will be able to see that. It needs to be managed better and I personally would willingly pay more for it.

Agree I think there is a huge amount of waste, they need to embrace technology as well and send more communications by email and text

[DemolitionRed]

The mismanagement of our NHS is a problem. One of its inexcusable problems is not collecting monies owed from countries where its citizens have used our services. Its not that those countries won't pay and its not because that foreign patient didn't hand in the correct paperwork; its because admin just don't get round to sorting it. The NHS has a really bad reputation for not collecting its foreign debt.

[Tom4784]

Jackanory.

I'll take your one word dismissal to mean you don't have a good counterargument to what I said.