Tory's target "wealthy pensioners"

[Cherie]

Fuel allowance will be means tested...

Manifesto measures include:
Balancing the budget by 2025....was this supposed to happen by 2020
No increase in VAT - but scrapping a 2015 election pledge not to raise income tax or National Insurance broken promise
Increasing the national living wage to 60% of the median earnings by 2020
Restating the commitment to bring net immigration down to tens of thousands a year ...she didn't achieve this as Home Sec and wont now
Increasing NHS spending by a minimum of £8bn in real terms over the next five years
A pledge that a referendum on Scottish independence cannot take place until the Brexit process is completed
Scrapping winter fuel payments to better-off pensioners - at the moment, all pensioners qualify for one-off payments of between £100 and £300 each winter
A reduction of the so-called "triple lock" on pensions to a "double lock" with the state pension to rise by the higher of average earnings or inflation - but to no longer go up by 2.5% if they are both lower than that
An extra £4bn on schools in England by 2022 - partly funded by an end to the current provision of free school lunches for all infant pupils in England
Scrapping the ban on setting up new grammar schools
Measures on immigration, including asking firms to pay more to hire migrant workers, who will in turn be asked to pay more to use the NHS

[smudgie]

I suppose it depends what they mean by well off pensioners.:shrug:
Perhaps anyone with a private pension as well, or will any other benefits be taken into account, such as PIP or similar?
I am all for it.

[Niamh.]

hhhmm if people saved harder all through their lives to get themselves a better pension is it really fair to take some of that back from them by doing this?

[smudgie]

hhhmm if people saved harder all through their lives to get themselves a better pension is it really fair to take some of that back from them by doing this?

Yes.
They won't be taking any of your pension, but will have more in the pot for those that really do need it.
Many pensioners have no need of it:shrug:
I certainly will be very happy to let the people that really need it have it.

[Niamh.]

Yes.
They won't be taking any of your pension, but will have more in the pot for those that really do need it.
Many pensioners have no need of it:shrug:
I certainly will be very happy to let the people that really need it have it.

I disagree. It's little incentive to work hard in life

[smudgie]

I disagree. It's little incentive to work hard in life

Fair enough.
I just don't personally feel happy about having a winter fuel pay out if we can manage without one, whereas many families who are struggling don't get it.

[Jack_]

Conservatives 2010: 'We'll balance the budget by 2015'

Conservatives 2015: 'We'll balance the budget by 2020'

Conservatives 2017: 'We'll balance the budget by 2025'

And people think they're the party of economic competence...give me a ****ing break :rolleyes:

Scrapping free school meals, a 'living' wage that isn't actually a living wage, more grammar schools, a free vote on fox hunting, more workers rights that are irrelevant when employment tribunal fees are unaffordable, etc etc. I can't believe people are going to vote for this ****, it's disgusting

[joeysteele]

I agree with the idea but means testing is also often an expensive exercise.
The detail will be more revealing than the policy as it stands.

Is the means testing as to savings, being on pension credit,both grades, linked to sickness and disability.

It could well be,not done right and this govt. has a deplorable record of getting benefit changes wrong.
This could mean those who do really need it,will be losing it.

I hope she and her Party are really heavily pressed on this to reveal how they will means test it.
Pensioners should be concerned at the lack of detail.

[Loukas]

Conservatives 2010: 'We'll balance the budget by 2015'

Conservatives 2015: 'We'll balance the budget by 2020'

Conservatives 2017: 'We'll balance the budget by 2025'

And people think they're the party of economic competence...give me a ****ing break :rolleyes:

Scrapping free school meals, a 'living' wage that isn't actually a living wage, more grammar schools, a free vote on fox hunting, more workers rights that are irrelevant when employment tribunal fees are unaffordable, etc etc. I can't believe people are going to vote for this ****, it's disgusting

couldn't agree more :clap1:

[reece(:]

Should be targeting rich corporation not pensioners. Aren't pensioners pretty much the heart of tory votes as well :joker:

[Niamh.]

Should be targeting rich corporation not pensioners. Aren't pensioners pretty much the heart of tory votes as well :joker:

Don't bite the hand that feeds you?

[Jack_]

Should be targeting rich corporation not pensioners. Aren't pensioners pretty much the heart of tory votes as well :joker:

This is what I find so bizarre about this election, generally speaking the Tories are considered the party of less taxes, Labour more, the Tories better for pensioners while Labour aren't, and yet based on policies it's actually the other way round this time...but she's still going to win :shrug: turkeys voting for Christmas springs to mind

[user104658]

Should be targeting rich corporation not pensioners. Aren't pensioners pretty much the heart of tory votes as well :joker:

It's got to the point where they enjoy it, though. Tory voters have started to get so hard for cruel austerity measures that even if it's directed at them, they stll absolutely love every minute of it. "Yes! Yes Mummy Tory! Take more! I am but a pitiful wretch and I deserve nothing but bread and drippings, take it all."

[Livia]

Should be targeting rich corporation not pensioners. Aren't pensioners pretty much the heart of tory votes as well :joker:

Yes, they are.

This is just like the Tories... they continue to alienate their core vote. It's hard to try to imagine what they hope to achieve.

[Livia]

It's got to the point where they enjoy it, though. Tory voters have started to get so hard for cruel austerity measures that even if it's directed at them, they stll absolutely love every minute of it. "Yes! Yes Mummy Tory! Take more! I am but a pitiful wretch and I deserve nothing but bread and drippings, take it all."

Sigh...

[Kazanne]

Some wealthy pensioners themselves have said they dont need it,so I dont see a problem as long as those that are in need still get it, seems sensible to me.pensioners on basic pension and are not well off will still get it.People moan when they feel the wealthy are being looked after by the Tories,these are wealthy people regardless of age.

[Kazanne]

Yes, they are.

This is just like the Tories... they continue to alienate their core vote. It's hard to try to imagine what they hope to achieve.

Well Livia at least they are telling us the truth and not filling us with pipe dreams of a perfect Utopia that will never happen, this is one reason I like them,they dont tell people what they want to hear,they don't curry favour with the public, not everything can be sweet for everyone.:wavey:

[joeysteele]

Conservatives 2010: 'We'll balance the budget by 2015'

Conservatives 2015: 'We'll balance the budget by 2020'

Conservatives 2017: 'We'll balance the budget by 2025'

And people think they're the party of economic competence...give me a ****ing break :rolleyes:

Scrapping free school meals, a 'living' wage that isn't actually a living wage, more grammar schools, a free vote on fox hunting, more workers rights that are irrelevant when employment tribunal fees are unaffordable, etc etc. I can't believe people are going to vote for this ****, it's disgusting


You couldn't make it up Honestly.

That promise of clearing the deficit by 2015 in 2010 now being extended to 2025 is an absolute disgrace.
The argument for all the austerity from 2010 was stated as being vital to clearing that deficit in 2015.

It's like the other card she is playing again now too that she has failed on massively herself since 2010.
The immigration card she plays again here as to getting it to tens of thousands.
She'll need to stop students coming then as they make up a number higher than that themselves.

No other party would get away with conning voters like this.
None.

[arista]

"Scrapping free school meals"


Yes but they are doing free breakfast
for every school

[joeysteele]

Well Livia at least they are telling us the truth and not filling us with pipe dreams of a perfect Utopia that will never happen, this is one reason I like them,they dont tell people what they want to hear,they don't curry favour with the public, not everything can be sweet for everyone.:wavey:

I don't know any party promising Utopia.
Labour are predicting really bad things if some things aren't addressed.

We have no detail on how they intend to stop these fuel payments or the means testing they may use.
Which may have people who really need it to slip through the safety net.

Do you know the detail.
It's not in the manifesto or do the Cons just have to day something for it to be right and everyone else wrong.

This policy,like many others such as the bedroom charge,may end up costing to more to implement than the cost now.
I bet the Cons aren't scrutinised and challenged the way Labour, Lib Dems and other Parties are as to the finer detail.

No wonder May won't do any real challenging debates.

[Kazanne]

I don't know any party promising Utopia.
Labour are predicting really bad things if some things aren't addressed.

We have no detail on how they intend to stop these fuel payments or the means testing they may use.
Which may have people who really need it to slip through the safety net.

Do you know the detail.
It's not in the manifesto or do the Cons just have to day something for it to be right and everyone else wrong.

This policy,like many others such as the bedroom charge,may end up costing to more to implement than the cost now.
I bet the Cons aren't scrutinised and challenged the way Labour, Lib Dems and other Parties are as to the finer detail.

No wonder May won't do any real challenging debates.

Well we know they ALL lie,it depends I suppose on the lies we choose to believe.

[Kazanne]

"Scrapping free school meals"


Yes but they are doing free breakfast
for every school

Oh but that will get overlooked arista:wavey:

[reece(:]

Well Livia at least they are telling us the truth and not filling us with pipe dreams of a perfect Utopia that will never happen, this is one reason I like them,they dont tell people what they want to hear,they don't curry favour with the public, not everything can be sweet for everyone.:wavey:
Optimism in our future > "no deal is better than a good deal" etc etc

[MTVN]

At the last election the Tories were criticised for protecting well-off pensioners at the expense of the young, well they're not doing that anymore. You always have to make these calls in politics, just as Labour have decided to prioritise students over the poorer classes by scrapping tuition fees instead of reversing benefit cuts

[Kazanne]

At the last election the Tories were criticised for protecting well-off pensioners at the expense of the young, well they're not doing that anymore. You always have to make these calls in politics, just as Labour have decided to prioritise students over the poorer classes by scrapping tuition fees instead of reversing benefit cuts

:clap1::clap1:

[joeysteele]

Well we know they ALL lie,it depends I suppose on the lies we choose to believe.

I'm.judging them on lies and endless failed policies.

Austerity needed for 5 years to clear the deficit by 2015.
Now she says 2025 before that's cleared.

Tens of thousands as to immigration,not deliverable and already failed this last 7 years.

No top down re organisation of the NHS,then one of the most extensive, costly and demoralising one done.

Junior doctors, Nurses,Police.and Fireman demoralised and up in arms at govt attitudes to them.

Now they remove the promise 'they' made only in 2015 that no tax rises will be done until 2020.
Now they open the door to tax rises.

Lies and broken promises that would have any other Party as a govt.well and truly booted out of power.

[jaxie]

Conservatives 2010: 'We'll balance the budget by 2015'

Conservatives 2015: 'We'll balance the budget by 2020'

Conservatives 2017: 'We'll balance the budget by 2025'

And people think they're the party of economic competence...give me a ****ing break :rolleyes:

Scrapping free school meals, a 'living' wage that isn't actually a living wage, more grammar schools, a free vote on fox hunting, more workers rights that are irrelevant when employment tribunal fees are unaffordable, etc etc. I can't believe people are going to vote for this ****, it's disgusting

Giving children a breakfast is actually more beneficial because more actual learning is done in the morning and hungry children don't concentrate. I saw on the news they are doing something re breakfasts. Being realistic there are few families who can't manage a sandwich for lunch.

Grammar schools allow poor children from council estates to have a better chance at education if they are bright. Anyone who says otherwise has never been a poor bright child.

Why would anyone complain about being given more rights at work?

Re the budget deficit you can thank Labour for the ongoing mess.

[smudgie]

Giving children a breakfast is actually more beneficial because more actual learning is done in the morning and hungry children don't concentrate. I saw on the news they are doing something re breakfasts. Being realistic there are few families who can't manage a sandwich for lunch.

Re the budget deficit you can thank Labour for the ongoing mess.

Yes, and they are not scrapping free school meals, only scrapping the freebies for them that don't need them.

[Cherie]

I disagree. It's little incentive to work hard in life

I agree, it will be interesting to see what the cut off point will be before considered "wealthy"

If I hear May say this is for "ordinary people" one more time I think I will scream and scream and scream, stop being so bloody patronising with your Mayisms

[Alf]

It's got to the point where they enjoy it, though. Tory voters have started to get so hard for cruel austerity measures that even if it's directed at them, they stll absolutely love every minute of it. "Yes! Yes Mummy Tory! Take more! I am but a pitiful wretch and I deserve nothing but bread and drippings, take it all."I love bread and dripping.

[smudgie]

I love bread and dripping.

Yummy, pork dripping from the butchers, spread on bread.
All that jelly at the bottom as well.
Loved it.

[Mystic Mock]

The Conservatives again attacking another group of people, does this party honestly ever do anything positive? It's all negative attacks on individual groups all of the time, I honestly don't get how they get off on it, or more importantly why a large chunk of the public get off on it aswell by voting for this disgraceful party.

[Marsh.]

It's got to the point where they enjoy it, though. Tory voters have started to get so hard for cruel austerity measures that even if it's directed at them, they stll absolutely love every minute of it. "Yes! Yes Mummy Tory! Take more! I am but a pitiful wretch and I deserve nothing but bread and drippings, take it all."

I love bread and dripping.

I'm the dripping.

[Kazanne]

The Conservatives again attacking another group of people, does this party honestly ever do anything positive? It's all negative attacks on individual groups all of the time, I honestly don't get how they get off on it, or more importantly why a large chunk of the public get off on it aswell by voting for this disgraceful party.

I think some of the public just look past the initial things that are put forward by parties, you need to see the reasons behind some things,not just jump to conclusions people are being targeted, such as the winter fuel payments,some pensioners don't need it and don't want it,these are the ones that are 'targeted' it wont be taken off the needy.

[Tozzie]

Fair enough.
I just don't personally feel happy about having a winter fuel pay out if we can manage without one, whereas many families who are struggling don't get it.

My dad has a little savings and I'm all for him having the winter fuel allowance, he's worked hard all his life, paid his taxes and national insurance so its right the government should give him back some of what they took over the years. His few savings makes him feel secure and if not for the winter fuel allowance he would have to dig into them.

[joeysteele]

The Conservatives again attacking another group of people, does this party honestly ever do anything positive? It's all negative attacks on individual groups all of the time, I honestly don't get how they get off on it, or more importantly why a large chunk of the public get off on it aswell by voting for this disgraceful party.

Disgraceful party indeed,good description.

We hear the argument richer pensioners don't need it so now,after years of it being right they got it with a Conservative promise of them continuing.
It's fine now since the Cons have changed their minds.

Now it should only go to poorer pensioners.
Scratch deep below the service, this will mean complex means testing,more form filling as to rooting out any savings and checks on individuals.
The cost likely outweighing any savings,with many vulnerable slipping through whatever supposed safety net,this disgraceful govt has in place,if any at all.

Now this sudden concern for the poor,this govt.set up ESA with 2 groups,the support group and the work related activity group, for people deemed sick and disabled.

On a whim this govt despite admitting those in the wrag group were considered too ill or disabled to work for likely a minimum of 6 months.
Voted to slash £25+ a week from those in the wrag group.

Disgraceful,disgusting and shameful and very little outcry from Con supporters as to that.

You paint the right picture in your post of the Cons,I'm ashamed I ever counted myself a supporter of them in my late teens.

Never again, not this heartless,cruel and hardline set up the Cons have in place now with this 100% deceitful waste of space leader Mrs May.

[Niamh.]

My dad has a little savings and I'm all for him having the winter fuel allowance, he's worked hard all his life, paid his taxes and national insurance so its right the government should give him back some of what they took over the years. His few savings makes him feel secure and if not for the winter fuel allowance he would have to dig into them.

Exactly my point, it's people who sacrificed all their lives so they could feel secure and have a more comfortable life that will take the hit. It's just encouraging people not to bother doing so cos they'll get more stuff that way :shrug:

[Mystic Mock]

I think some of the public just look past the initial things that are put forward by parties, you need to see the reasons behind some things,not just jump to conclusions people are being targeted, such as the winter fuel payments,some pensioners don't need it and don't want it,these are the ones that are 'targeted' it wont be taken off the needy.

But as someone has already said on this thread, who determines the line of wealthy and who's "in need?" I would honestly like the Tories to do something positive again like when they brought forward gay marriage.

[Mystic Mock]

Disgraceful party indeed,good description.

We hear the argument richer pensioners don't need it so now,after years of it being right they got it with a Conservative promise of them continuing.
It's fine now since the Cons have changed their minds.

Now it should only go to poorer pensioners.
Scratch deep below the service, this will mean complex means testing,more form filling as to rooting out any savings and checks on individuals.
The cost likely outweighing any savings,with many vulnerable slipping through whatever supposed safety net,this disgraceful govt has in place,if any at all.

Now this sudden concern for the poor,this govt.set up ESA with 2 groups,the support group and the work related activity group, for people deemed sick and disabled.

On a whim this govt despite admitting those in the wrag group were considered too ill or disabled to work for likely a minimum of 6 months.
Voted to slash £25+ a week from those in the wrag group.

Disgraceful,disgusting and shameful and very little outcry from Con supporters as to that.

You paint the right picture in your post of the Cons,I'm ashamed I ever counted myself a supporter of them in my late teens.

Never again, not this heartless,cruel and hardline set up the Cons have in place now with this 100% deceitful waste of space leader Mrs May.

I think Joey that we all got spoilt in this country under Labour, and now we're acting out because we as a country are bored, but I do think that history will look back at this time as moronic for allowing such a spiteful party to rule like this for so long, just like Margaret Thatcher's time is looked on badly by most people.

[Cherie]

Scottish Torys have said Scottish pensioners won't be means tested, only English and Welsh :laugh3: ... I guess only the English and Welsh "wealthy" pensioners don't need it

[Kizzy]

Scottish Torys have said Scottish pensioners won't be means tested, only English and Welsh :laugh3: ... I guess only the English and Welsh "wealthy" pensioners don't need it

Apparently that's down to their climate :/

[DemolitionRed]

Well Livia at least they are telling us the truth

Well we know they ALL lie,it depends I suppose on the lies we choose to believe.

:hehe:

[DemolitionRed]

I think Joey that we all got spoilt in this country under Labour, and now we're acting out because we as a country are bored, but I do think that history will look back at this time as moronic for allowing such a spiteful party to rule like this for so long, just like Margaret Thatcher's time is looked on badly by most people.

Thatcher was a saint compared to this lot. The problem is, those who did well under Thatcher, the ones who bought their council houses for a pittance and sold them years later for a kings ransom, will always be nostalgic about the Tory party.

[Brillopad]

Well we know they ALL lie,it depends I suppose on the lies we choose to believe.

Exactly.

[Kizzy]

Thatcher was a saint compared to this lot. The problem is, those who did well under Thatcher, the ones who bought their council houses for a pittance and sold them years later for a kings ransom, will always be nostalgic about the Tory party.

Let's not get carried away DR... :laugh:

[Beso]

I think some of the public just look past the initial things that are put forward by parties, you need to see the reasons behind some things,not just jump to conclusions people are being targeted, such as the winter fuel payments,some pensioners don't need it and don't want it,these are the ones that are 'targeted' it wont be taken off the needy.

Good point..

Why shouldnt the better off pensioners be asked to pay a little bit more.

I bet a lot of them dont even bother with the free travel cards etc they get tjat they dont even need as they have plenty money stashed away.

And lets be honest, most of them will be tory voters anyway.

[Cherie]

Good point..

Why shouldnt the better off pensioners be asked to pay a little bit more.

I bet a lot of them dont even bother with the free travel cards etc they get tjat they dont even need as they have plenty money stashed away.

And lets be honest, most of them will be tory voters anyway.

May hasn't decreed what exactly constitutes a "better off" pensioner though has she, at what level of income do you think they should lose this benefit as a matter of interest? And when she does reveal it AFTER she is elected we will see how close you were just for fun of course :hee:

[DemolitionRed]

Let's not get carried away DR... :laugh:

Hehe! well she was born and incubated from the sperm of the devil but everything that came after her and rode on her neoliberalist ideals knowing that there was little left in the pot for the working class Brits.

My parents bought my grans council flat in West London for £6k and that flat is now worth over £half a million. That area used to be swarming with working class people but since its been sold off, the working class have been moved on and its now considered an upmarket area for professional people. :shrug:

Its ludicrous that working class and most middle class people can't now afford to buy those properties back.

[DemolitionRed]

If you are a well off pensioner you are expected to pay for your own nursing home care, if you ever need it and lets face it, none of us know if we are going to get dementia and need years of nursing home care.

What is considered 'well off'? Is it owning their own home and therefore having releasable assets? Is it having a £100k savings? is it millionaires? what's the figure?

Private nursing homes are often over £1K a week, so that's £56K a year without any extras.

[Northern Monkey]

I think these including the dementia tax and lack of costings from the Tories really shows an arrogance.They're hitting a section of their core voters and they know they're still getting a landslide.

[Kizzy]

They don't know that, nothing is set in stone.

[user104658]

If you are a well off pensioner you are expected to pay for your own nursing home care, if you ever need it and lets face it, none of us know if we are going to get dementia and need years of nursing home care.

What is considered 'well off'? Is it owning their own home and therefore having releasable assets? Is it having a £100k savings? is it millionaires? what's the figure?

Private nursing homes are often over £1K a week, so that's £56K a year without any extras.

The current situation with this seems to be that they will take every penny that is considered "yours". My wife's grandmother is in a care home now, as of January this year. Her grandad had something like £300k savings and they own their house and basically what happens is, half of that is considered hers and half his, and they will expect all of her grandmother's half to be used before the state will pay for care. So £150k. The house is exempt because her grandfather still lives in it, and they can't touch "his half" of the savings pot they have.

However if it's a single old person and there's no living spouse, they will take the lot. All of the savings, sell off the house and use the money from that, every last penny before state help is available.

The short story is...... ... If you want to leave your house and savings to your children, gift those assets to them long before it becomes an issue. Past 70 start transferring everything you can out of your name and into theirs.

[Brillopad]

The current situation with this seems to be that they will take every penny that is considered "yours". My wife's grandmother is in a care home now, as of January this year. Her grandad had something like £300k savings and they own their house and basically what happens is, half of that is considered hers and half his, and they will expect all of her grandmother's half to be used before the state will pay for care. So £150k. The house is exempt because her grandfather still lives in it, and they can't touch "his half" of the savings pot they have.

However if it's a single old person and there's no living spouse, they will take the lot. All of the savings, sell off the house and use the money from that, every last penny before state help is available.

The short story is...... ... If you want to leave your house and savings to your children, gift those assets to them long before it becomes an issue. Past 70 start transferring everything you can out of your name and into theirs.

Regarding your last paragraph I completely agree. This is somrthing all my family plan to do. Gift, gift, gift as far in advance as you can.

[Tom4784]

It's a terrible and needless policy that's only amplified in it's terribleness by how vague it is.

[Mystic Mock]

Thatcher was a saint compared to this lot. The problem is, those who did well under Thatcher, the ones who bought their council houses for a pittance and sold them years later for a kings ransom, will always be nostalgic about the Tory party.

My problem with Thatcher is that she honestly never cared that she treated the North like ****.

I don't live up North, and hell I wasn't even born when Thatcher was in charge, but I honestly can't get over that she basically allowed those Mining Strikes to go on knowing that the workers were starving and tired because they was being mistreated, and people honestly think that Labour or Lib Dems are worse than this cold hearted party? But I'll agree with you that the current Tory party is worse as I'm currently living through their period and they're effecting me.

[Kazanne]

Well the queen is a wealthy pensioner, she needs it doesn't she ? people did say ALL pensioners should get it regardless.

[Withano]

Well the queen is a wealthy pensioner, she needs it doesn't she ? people did say ALL pensioners should get it regardless.

Good Tory logic there

[Kazanne]

Good Tory logic there

It's true :hee:

[DemolitionRed]

NOW it makes sense! ‘Dementia tax’ is an INSURANCE SCAM

This was written by Trish Cambell and published in Vox Political http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/05/19/now-it-makes-sense-dementia-tax-is-an-insurance-scam/

“The Conservatives will attempt to soften the blow by promising that pensioners will not have to sell their homes to pay for their care costs while they or a surviving partner are alive. Instead, ‘products will be available’ allowing the elderly to pay by extracting equity from their homes, which will be recovered at a later date when they die or sell their residence.

“I have just seen this post online:

“‘People need to read the small print associated with this because its a lot nastier than it looks.

“I work in the City. The insurance industry was approached by the Government several months ago with the aim of creating a new market for a new product.

“This arrangement is a culmination of those discussions. You wont have to sell your house PROVIDED that you purchase an insurance product to cover your social care. The “premiums” would be recovered from the equity after the house has been sold and the Insurance company will have a lien on the house and can force a sale if it wants to. So your offspring cant keep it on the market for long in order to get the best price.

“The real kicker in this is that in order to encourage the industry to market these products the government guaranteed that there would be no cap on the premiums.

“This was in some ways “atonement” for Osborne’s destruction of the highly lucrative annuities market. This means that the premiums could be up to (and including) the entire remaining equity in the property after the government has taken its cut. Companies will be falling over themselves to get their snouts in this trough.

“In short your offspring and relatives could get absolutely nothing from your estate.

“If you buy one of these products you need to read the small print very very carefully indeed because there will be some real dogs on the market.

“I suspect that this is another financial scandal waiting to happen, but by the time it does May will be long gone.'”

[Cherie]

Work hard buy your home, then we will relieve you of it so your kids will have to work even harde :facepalm:

[smudgie]

So pensioners in care homes now can only keep £23k, but they will be entitled to keep over 4 times as much in future. Good thing.
The difference now is that home care can be deducted from property as well, not so good.
I suppose it depends how much care and for how long you need it.
I can see this losing the Tories plenty of support.

[Cherie]

So pensioners in care homes now can only keep £23k, but they will be entitled to keep over 4 times as much in future. Good thing.
The difference now is that home care can be deducted from property as well, not so good.
I suppose it depends how much care and for how long you need it.
I can see this losing the Tories plenty of support.

Do you honestly think they are going to pay for you if you have 100k in the bank, that will gradually be reduced to 0 mark my words, the state aren't going to pay a penny more than they need to...100k is the sweetener, it's not set in stone and even if it were just like the triple lock is easily reversed

[Cherie]

May hasn't decreed what exactly constitutes a "better off" pensioner though has she, at what level of income do you think they should lose this benefit as a matter of interest? And when she does reveal it AFTER she is elected we will see how close you were just for fun of course :hee:

Any ideas of a figure yet Parm?

[Brillopad]

Work hard buy your home, then we will relieve you of it so your kids will have to work even harde :facepalm:

I have never agreed with this policy. One of the pleasures in life is knowing we can pass on an inheritance to our children to makes their lives easier. It's a big part of owning your own home. I bet the politicians won't deny themselves and their own children this right.

People work hard to save a deposit, pay their mortgage and their taxes, whilst some others don't and perhaps spend it on other things instead, only to have to pay for their care whilst those that don't get it free. It should come out of their taxes.

For those that don't bother saving though - they should beware they will undoubtedly end up in a right dump. The cheap local authority homes are not good. I have seen some of them - awful places.

[Cherie]

I have never agreed with this policy. One of the pleasures in life is knowing we can pass on an inheritance to our children to makes their lives easier. It's a big part of owning your own home. I bet the politicians won't deny themselves and their own children this right.

People work hard to save a deposit, pay their mortgage and their taxes, whilst some others don't and perhaps spend it on other things instead, only to have to pay for their care whilst those that don't get it free. It should come out of their taxes.

For those that don't bother saving though - they should beware they will undoubtedly end up in a right dump. The cheap local authority homes are not good. I have seen some of them - awful places.

It's literally awful, where's the incentive for anyone to get on the property ladder

[Kizzy]

How does this fit in with the free at the point of use concept?

[Cherie]

I have never agreed with this policy. One of the pleasures in life is knowing we can pass on an inheritance to our children to makes their lives easier. It's a big part of owning your own home. I bet the politicians won't deny themselves and their own children this right.

People work hard to save a deposit, pay their mortgage and their taxes, whilst some others don't and perhaps spend it on other things instead, only to have to pay for their care whilst those that don't get it free. It should come out of their taxes.

For those that don't bother saving though - they should beware they will undoubtedly end up in a right dump. The cheap local authority homes are not good. I have seen some of them - awful places.


It wouldn't surprise me that when the money runs out people will be moved to cheaper homes

[Brillopad]

How does this fit in with the free at the point of use concept?

It doesn't apply to care for the elderly unless they have no money.

[Cherie]

So they have literally covered all bases, hand over property early to your kids you will end up in a ****hole, spend spend spend...ditto...hang on to your home if you are unlucky enough to live beyond your savings/house value...you're moving into the ****hole ...what a way to treat the elderly :nono:

[Kizzy]

It doesn't apply to care for the elderly unless they have no money.

They will lay claim to their home should they have one... Is this how they get around the 'free at the point of use'... it only cost you when you die, then they will seize your property, as in your families inheritance that you worked all you life for with your TAXED income?

[waterhog]

thinking you are right - we need a cashless society as they get it all anyway

[Kazanne]

I have never agreed with this policy. One of the pleasures in life is knowing we can pass on an inheritance to our children to makes their lives easier. It's a big part of owning your own home. I bet the politicians won't deny themselves and their own children this right.

People work hard to save a deposit, pay their mortgage and their taxes, whilst some others don't and perhaps spend it on other things instead, only to have to pay for their care whilst those that don't get it free. It should come out of their taxes.

For those that don't bother saving though - they should beware they will undoubtedly end up in a right dump. The cheap local authority homes are not good. I have seen some of them - awful places.

As someone already pointed out ,just gift your house to your kids earlier on, then no one can touch it ,as it's not yours.

[Brillopad]

As someone already pointed out ,just gift your house to your kids earlier on, then no one can touch it ,as it's not yours.

It's not that simple Kazanne. At the moment you have to have done that several years ago or they can still take it.

I have no doubt they will increase that time to something ridiculous like 20/30 years and probably stop people doing it altogether somehow.

I plan to do this but just hope they don't increase that time limit too far.

[Kazanne]

It's not that simple Kazanne. At the moment you have to have done that several years ago or they can still take it.

I have no doubt they will increase that time to something ridiculous like 20/30 years and probably stop people doing it altogether somehow.

I plan to do this but just hope they don't increase that time limit too far.

Oh right,shows how much I know :laugh:

[user104658]

It's not that simple Kazanne. At the moment you have to have done that several years ago or they can still take it.

I have no doubt they will increase that time to something ridiculous like 20/30 years and probably stop people doing it altogether somehow.

I plan to do this but just hope they don't increase that time limit too far.

The obvious workaround, if you have the funds, is to actually SELL your property to a child as soon as they are responsible adults... but give them the money to buy it (so effectively buying it from yourself, but in their name) so that it's not just signed over but actually sold.

The other option, if you're not sentimentally attached to the property, is to actually sell it and use the funds to buy non-traceable assets like bearer bonds / gold / rare coins / art / other collectibles or I guess, these days, bitcoin? And give those to your offspring with no papertrail.

[Brillopad]

The obvious workaround, if you have the funds, is to actually SELL your property to a child as soon as they are responsible adults... but give them the money to buy it (so effectively buying it from yourself, but in their name) so that it's not just signed over but actually sold.

The other option, if you're not sentimentally attached to the property, is to actually sell it and use the funds to buy non-traceable assets like bearer bonds / gold / rare coins / art / other collectibles or I guess, these days, bitcoin? And give those to your offspring with no papertrail.

You have been giving this some thought. :hee:

[jaxie]

Already have a plan for my dotage. As with TS suggestion, you just have to outwit them.

[Brillopad]

Already have a plan for my dotage. As with TS suggestion, you just have to outwit them.

The cogs are going round as we speak. :hee:

[smudgie]

The obvious workaround, if you have the funds, is to actually SELL your property to a child as soon as they are responsible adults... but give them the money to buy it (so effectively buying it from yourself, but in their name) so that it's not just signed over but actually sold.

The other option, if you're not sentimentally attached to the property, is to actually sell it and use the funds to buy non-traceable assets like bearer bonds / gold / rare coins / art / other collectibles or I guess, these days, bitcoin? And give those to your offspring with no papertrail.

Diamonds TS, diamonds.

[Cherie]

The obvious workaround, if you have the funds, is to actually SELL your property to a child as soon as they are responsible adults... but give them the money to buy it (so effectively buying it from yourself, but in their name) so that it's not just signed over but actually sold.

The other option, if you're not sentimentally attached to the property, is to actually sell it and use the funds to buy non-traceable assets like bearer bonds / gold / rare coins / art / other collectibles or I guess, these days, bitcoin? And give those to your offspring with no papertrail.

So you "sell" to your child, if they go on to buy their own home, they will be liable to capital gains tax on your property something they wouldn't be liable for if they inherited it...you would also have to have a contract that you live in it during your lifetime...offspring have been known to screw over their parents as well, the second option is probably more sensible if you want to retain some control over your assets

[user104658]

So you "sell" to your child, if they go on to buy their own home, they will be liable to capital gains tax on your property something they wouldn't be liable for if they inherited it...you would also have to have a contract that you live in it during your lifetime...offspring have been known to screw over their parents as well, the second option is probably more sensible if you want to retain some control over your assets

The point is that they won't inherit it at all of you end up in dementia care because your assets will be dissolved to pay for that care until there is nothing left to inherit...

But yes, I did mean to add in that first post that it's only the way to go for people with close relationships with their offspring, and who know their offspring to be trustworthy. I thought I had said that but, reading it back, can see that I forgot :joker:.

Of course you shouldn't sign over your home to Nasty Nick Cotton, but some people are lucky enough to have the sort of relationship with their parents where it wouldn't even be a concern. Apparently. I'm guessing really since I've never been particularly close to either of my parents and one is already dead :umm2:.

[Tarryn]

I just read about this. It's awful.
My Mum's house is worth 130 thousand & it's her only asset, she has no savings & it has taken her 27 years to pay it off. My sister is in her late thirties & lives with her but cannot work due to long term illness. What would happen to her?. I'm really worried. Would she be made homeless ?.

[Cherie]

I just read about this. It's awful.
My Mum's house is worth 130 thousand & it's her only asset, she has no savings & it has taken her 27 years to pay it off. My sister is in her late thirties & lives with her but cannot work due to long term illness. What would happen to her?. I'm really worried. Would she be made homeless ?.

Not sure what would happen in that instance, if it comes into force it might be worth putting a life time tenancy in place for your aunt.. so they can't sell it in her lifetime? under the proposed rules, your Mum would be entitled to keep 100,000 but I don't know how they would get the 30,000 owed apart from selling later on..

[user104658]

I just read about this. It's awful.
My Mum's house is worth 130 thousand & it's her only asset, she has no savings & it has taken her 27 years to pay it off. My sister is in her late thirties & lives with her but cannot work due to long term illness. What would happen to her?. I'm really worried. Would she be made homeless ?.

I know that when it's a partner, they can't touch a house if there is someone still living there. I have to admit though that I don't know to what extent this applies to adult children, if they're not named in the ownership papers. It's probably worth looking into to sort it out before it becomes an issue.

[Cherie]

The point is that they won't inherit it at all of you end up in dementia care because your assets will be dissolved to pay for that care until there is nothing left to inherit...

But yes, I did mean to add in that first post that it's only the way to go for people with close relationships with their offspring, and who know their offspring to be trustworthy. I thought I had said that but, reading it back, can see that I forgot :joker:.

Of course you shouldn't sign over your home to Nasty Nick Cotton, but some people are lucky enough to have the sort of relationship with their parents where it wouldn't even be a concern. Apparently. I'm guessing really since I've never been particularly close to either of my parents and one is already dead :umm2:.


Money is a funny old thing though and even the closest of families can be split by it, my brother owes his nephews (my sons) money from a family estate, but he has decided to not to give it to them as the family member gifted to him originally but then changed her mind to include other family members (my kids weren't born when she gifted the property to him), she changed her will, he is the executor but won't honour it, the amount of money would be swallowed up by legal fees if we were to challenge it, and the best part about is he doesn't feel he has done anything wrong even though one of my sons is his Godchild. :joker: pratt!

[Tarryn]

I know that when it's a partner, they can't touch a house if there is someone still living there. I have to admit though that I don't know to what extent this applies to adult children, if they're not named in the ownership papers. It's probably worth looking into to sort it out before it becomes an issue.

It's really worrying. What about people who live with their parents to care for them ?. Would they be kicked out when they died ?. It's such a disgusting proposal. It means the people with houses not worth much would lose everything they worked so hard for while rich people would not lose much. Typical Tories.

[Cherie]

It's really worrying. What about people who live with their parents to care for them ?. Would they be kicked out when they died ?. It's such a disgusting proposal. It means the people with houses not worth much would lose everything they worked so hard for while rich people would not lose much. Typical Tories.

From what I can gather this wouldn't be an issue unless you wanted state help as well, that said no on can be a full time carer without some help

[smudgie]

So, it now appears there could be a cap as well as a floor.
I don't know how much it well help very much if you live in London or other very expensive areas.:shrug:
A guarantee to be left with at least £100 grand is better than the current situation of £23grand, but it would be reassuring to know that there is a cap on what you would have to pay, give people hope of actually keeping more of their hard earned cash.
Depends on what the cap is set at of course, and if it goes beyond being looked at in the green paper.

[Alf]

If the Tories ask for a dementia tax, just don't pay it, tell them you forgot.

[Beso]

Any ideas of a figure yet Parm?

no point in offering up figures as the goalposts will be moved a few times yet.

but if old doris can spend the winter piling logs onto her coal fire without a care in the world then she can help pay her way.

£90 grand in savings and ownage of own house...i would have them paying till they keeled over and died.

[Tarryn]

Is this only for those who need care for dementia ? What about those who get other conditions & need care ?.
It's so unfair to punish people at the bottom end of the property ladder & only have their house as an asset. Some mega rich people have multiple homes & will pay very little.
I would never vote for the Tories, they disgust me.

[Cherie]

Is this only for those who need care for dementia ? What about those who get other conditions & need care ?.
It's so unfair to punish people at the bottom end of the property ladder & only have their house as an asset. Some mega rich people have multiple homes & will pay very little.
I would never vote for the Tories, they disgust me.



No "its been dubbed the dementia tax" by the opposition it is in effect and old age/illness tax

[Cherie]

no point in offering up figures as the goalposts will be moved a few times yet.

but if old doris can spend the winter piling logs onto her coal fire without a care in the world then she can help pay her way.

£90 grand in savings and ownage of own house...i would have them paying till they keeled over and died.

Come on it will start somewhere? whats your wealthy pensioner, 12,000 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 you must have a figure in mind?

[Beso]

Come on it will start somewhere? whats your wealthy pensioner, 12,000 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 you must have a figure in mind?

i added it..glasses are free on the nhs btw.:smug:

[jaxie]

If the Tories ask for a dementia tax, just don't pay it, tell them you forgot.

You're a funny guy, Alf! :laugh:

[Tarryn]

No "its been dubbed the dementia tax" by the opposition it is in effect and old age/illness tax

This will force a lot of people to shoulder the burden of looking after a loved one alone & not ask for help through fear of what might happen. In an age where people can't afford to rent or buy their own home many more people remain with their parents.

[smudgie]

i added it..glasses are free on the nhs btw.:smug:

Are they?
To whom exactly?
We always have to pay for ours, as do pensioners.

[Cherie]

i added it..glasses are free on the nhs btw.:smug:

do you get them free? I dont

so in your opinion owning your own home and 90K in the bank is a wealthy pensioner

what income will you get from living in your own home, nada unless you rent out a room, but there will be repair bills over the years, boiler breakdown, boiler service, roof repairs insurance etc

90k in the bank on a generous 1 per cent would give your an income of 900.00 a year on top of your state pension, you would get no where near 1 per cent these days, most of it would be on 0.25 per cent.

90k would soon dwindle away if you were drawing on it to subsidise your state pension, if you drew out 6,000 a year, giving you an extra 500 a month or 125 a week it would be gone in 15 years....happy old age!!!

[Beso]

do you get them free? I dont

so in your opinion owning your own home and 90K in the bank is a wealthy pensioner

what income will you get from living in your own home, nada unless you rent out a room, but there will be repair bills over the years, boiler breakdown, boiler service, roof repairs insurance etc

90k in the bank on a generous 1 per cent would give your an income of 900.00 a year on top of your state pension, you would get no where near 1 per cent these days, most of it would be on 0.25 per cent.

90k would soon dwindle away if you were drawing on it to subsidise your state pension, if you drew out 6,000 a year, giving you an extra 500 a month or 125 a week it would be gone in 15 years....happy old age!!!

Thats when they should get extra money. Once its all spent.

[DemolitionRed]

no point in offering up figures as the goalposts will be moved a few times yet.

but if old doris can spend the winter piling logs onto her coal fire without a care in the world then she can help pay her way.

£90 grand in savings and ownage of own house...i would have them paying till they keeled over and died.

So you're all for privatizing the NHS then? I mean, this is what this is; this is the start of it.

Since when was dementia not an illness?

[smudgie]

do you get them free? I dont

so in your opinion owning your own home and 90K in the bank is a wealthy pensioner

what income will you get from living in your own home, nada unless you rent out a room, but there will be repair bills over the years, boiler breakdown, boiler service, roof repairs insurance etc

90k in the bank on a generous 1 per cent would give your an income of 900.00 a year on top of your state pension, you would get no where near 1 per cent these days, most of it would be on 0.25 per cent.

90k would soon dwindle away if you were drawing on it to subsidise your state pension, if you drew out 6,000 a year, giving you an extra 500 a month or 125 a week it would be gone in 15 years....happy old age!!!

Indeed.
Not forgetting you have no right to dole or claiming a care allowance either if you come out of work and have a little in the bank, so you have to use any savings you have. Sort of diminishes any feeling of wanting to save all your life for a decent old age.

[Cherie]

Thats when they should get extra money. Once its all spent.

so you want Doris at 80 odd to start claiming for stuff she never got before :facepalm: you seriously are a proper Tory :laugh: what will actually happen is no one will tell Doris that she is entitled to anything and she will try and live on a pittance ..while the people who didn't buy their own home, didn't save will have applied for everything as soon as they hit 67 and will have half a decent life

[Cherie]

Indeed.
Not forgetting you have no right to dole or claiming a care allowance either if you come out of work and have a little in the bank, so you have to use any savings you have. Sort of diminishes any feeling of wanting to save all your life for a decent old age.



thats kind of my point, May bangs on about helping "hard working people" when the reality is the harder you work, the more you save the bigger the mug you are.... thats how it seems to be now anyway.

[Cherie]

so the hastily rethought cap won't be known until after the election :joker: oh dear dear

[DemolitionRed]

Dementia Tax Turn http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-dementia-tax-u-turn-pensioners-labour-corbyn-general-election-conservative-tory-poll-a7749001.html

If you make being consistent your USP and then backtrack as consistently as the current crop of Tories have you set yourself up to fail

[DemolitionRed]

I am surprised by much of what is going on with the Tories. Why have they brought up fox hunting. It's highly unpopular amongst most voters, as is their backtracking on the domestic ivory trade. The UK is famously a nation of animal lovers. People like foxes and elephants. Why risk pissing their voters off over something like this?

It also shows they've just thrown this manifesto together out of odd ideas written on the back of a napkin

[Beso]

so you want Doris at 80 odd to start claiming for stuff she never got before :facepalm: you seriously are a proper Tory :laugh: what will actually happen is no one will tell Doris that she is entitled to anything and she will try and live on a pittance ..while the people who didn't buy their own home, didn't save will have applied for everything as soon as they hit 67 and will have half a decent life

Im not a tory but i do believe they are the only party capable of running GB.

[Kazanne]

I am surprised by much of what is going on with the Tories. Why have they brought up fox hunting. It's highly unpopular amongst most voters, as is their backtracking on the domestic ivory trade. The UK is famously a nation of animal lovers. People like foxes and elephants. Why risk pissing their voters off over something like this?

It also shows they've just thrown this manifesto together out of odd ideas written on the back of a napkin

This is what I cant get my head around,it's like she really doesn't want to win and pass the weight of government onto someone else,I think it's political suicide myself,I do ask WHY?

[DemolitionRed]

This is what I cant get my head around,it's like she really doesn't want to win and pass the weight of government onto someone else,I think it's political suicide myself,I do ask WHY?

Its either that or its arrogance. I think its the former.

The Conservative government, including May, believe that leaving the EU is political suicide but now Mays left facing what she probably considers an impossible mandate and she doesn't want to take responsibility for collapsing the whole country.

People have been rendered speechless by her manifesto and she keeps gleefully reminding us that she only needs to lose six more seats!

[Northern Monkey]

This is what I cant get my head around,it's like she really doesn't want to win and pass the weight of government onto someone else,I think it's political suicide myself,I do ask WHY?

I think it's more arrogance that she knows she guaranteed the win and is pushing through as much as she can.
If this was a close thing she wouldn't dream of adding fox hunting to the agenda.It's certainly not a vote winner.

[DemolitionRed]

I think it's more arrogance that she knows she guaranteed the win and is pushing through as much as she can.
If this was a close thing she wouldn't dream of adding fox hunting to the agenda.It's certainly not a vote winner.

If its arrogance, the Tories already believe they exist in a one party state.

Forcing the elderly sick to pay equity to the government (instead of passing on to next of kin)
Increases to interest rates on student loans,
Refusal to increase the minimum wage,
Reductions to corporation tax,
Cuts to the NHS (won’t rule out privatisation)
An entirely volunteered repeat-vote on fox-hunting, openly supporting the hugely unpopular blood-sport
Re-legalising the immoral ivory trade
Restrictions to what British citizens can see on the internet, introducing North Korea-style censorship and state propaganda
http://evolvepolitics.com/theresa-may-trying-lose-election-something-weird/

[Northern Monkey]

If its arrogance, the Tories already believe they exist in a one party state.

Forcing the elderly sick to pay equity to the government (instead of passing on to next of kin)
Increases to interest rates on student loans,
Refusal to increase the minimum wage,
Reductions to corporation tax,
Cuts to the NHS (won’t rule out privatisation)
An entirely volunteered repeat-vote on fox-hunting, openly supporting the hugely unpopular blood-sport
Re-legalising the immoral ivory trade
Restrictions to what British citizens can see on the internet, introducing North Korea-style censorship and state propaganda
http://evolvepolitics.com/theresa-may-trying-lose-election-something-weird/
Yeah I recognise this.It's even triggered me to vote Corbyn ffs:laugh:

[DemolitionRed]

Yeah I recognise this.It's even triggered me to vote Corbyn ffs:laugh:

Well I've seen you as a bit of a fence sitter for a while now and nothing wrong with that. You get a better view from up there don't you?!?

I'm just glad you've seen the light :hee:

[Kizzy]

I wonder what these targetted ads look like on FB.... It's unbelievable they can get away with not disclosing the content of them, they could be saying all kinds of half truths and untruths... :/

If you have received one anybody screen shot it for me :)

[Northern Monkey]

Well I've seen you as a bit of a fence sitter for a while now and nothing wrong with that. You get a better view from up there don't you?!?

I'm just glad you've seen the light :hee:

Not fence sitting.I have strong opinions on most issues.Strong anti Corbyn opinions and anti Tory.I struggle for a political home.I have right and left wing views on different issues and there isn't a party who represents me.
I have to walk into that polling station with a peg on my nose when i cast that Labour vote.

[Cherie]

Not fence sitting.I have strong opinions on most issues.Strong anti Corbyn opinions and anti Tory.I struggle for a political home.I have right and left wing views on different issues and there isn't a party who represents me.
I have to walk into that polling station with a peg on my nose when i cast that Labour vote.

I feel the same, no political party represents me fully or even partially :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

I feel the same, no political party represents me fully or even partially :laugh:

Why can't we just have a sensible Labour party?

[Kizzy]

Why can't we just have a sensible Labour party?

https://media.giphy.com/media/TwICmfGwRl9pC/giphy.gif

Hush your mouth!

[Mystic Mock]

Im not a tory but i do believe they are the only party capable of running GB.

Oh because they've done such a great job at running it these past 8 years haven't they?:joker:

In my lifetime Labour ran the country much better, no ISIS, no NHS being chopped down to such an extent that the NHS is being sold off left, right, and centre, no talk about heavily regulating the Internet, and also people themselves financially could afford to buy things and were generally alot happier than they are under the Tories, and also the Media weren't so biased towards Labour like they are with the Tories, you can't actually say a bad word about the Tories in the Media it feels like.

The Cameron/May vision of the Tories has been terrible and have proven to me that being pro rich over anything else isn't good for the country as it's just breeding more and more negativity.

[Brillopad]

Labour did a pretty good job of running us into the ground which is why no one voted for them. People have short memories.

[reece(:]

Labour did a pretty good job of running us into the ground which is why no one voted for them. People have short memories.

We weren't even as bad off then as we are now

[Brillopad]

We weren't even as bad off then as we are now

I think there are many different reasons for that. Don't get me wrong the Tories are far from perfect, but I don't see Labour as our rescuers I'm afraid.

[Beso]

Oh because they've done such a great job at running it these past 8 years haven't they?:joker:

In my lifetime Labour ran the country much better, no ISIS, no NHS being chopped down to such an extent that the NHS is being sold off left, right, and centre, no talk about heavily regulating the Internet, and also people themselves financially could afford to buy things and were generally alot happier than they are under the Tories, and also the Media weren't so biased towards Labour like they are with the Tories, you can't actually say a bad word about the Tories in the Media it feels like.

The Cameron/May vision of the Tories has been terrible and have proven to me that being pro rich over anything else isn't good for the country as it's just breeding more and more negativity.
Just want to point out that tony blairs lies and actions against iraq and sadam had probably aided isis's rise.


You also mention internet regulations.

Quick question. Are you content with the exploitation of children on the likes of facebook and secret chat rooms?

[joeysteele]

Oh because they've done such a great job at running it these past 8 years haven't they?:joker:

In my lifetime Labour ran the country much better, no ISIS, no NHS being chopped down to such an extent that the NHS is being sold off left, right, and centre, no talk about heavily regulating the Internet, and also people themselves financially could afford to buy things and were generally alot happier than they are under the Tories, and also the Media weren't so biased towards Labour like they are with the Tories, you can't actually say a bad word about the Tories in the Media it feels like.

The Cameron/May vision of the Tories has been terrible and have proven to me that being pro rich over anything else isn't good for the country as it's just breeding more and more negativity.



One of your very best posts Mock.
Clearly you have taken notice these last 7 years and come to just about the same conclusions as myself.

[Mystic Mock]

Labour did a pretty good job of running us into the ground which is why no one voted for them. People have short memories.

People aren't voting for Labour because Labour aren't telling people that the EU is "bad" that all Muslims are "bad" and any other popularist opinions that people want Labour to think but aren't because they know that those ideas don't work.

Labour aren't the best option for me, but they're damnsight better than the current Government who's whole aim is to make people feel frightened, miserable, and hateful, that's not a party that's running the country well, in fact it's a sign of a very incompetent party that doesn't know how to run a country.

[Mystic Mock]

Just want to point out that tony blairs lies and actions against iraq and sadam had probably aided isis's rise.


You also mention internet regulations.

Quick question. Are you content with the exploitation of children on the likes of facebook and secret chat rooms?

You could argue that, but still ISIS didn't actually exist under Labour.

And The Police check that sort of stuff out on the Internet anyway, what the Tories want to shut down is normal Internet Porn as apparently it "does harm" and they are also planning on blocking off certain foreign media.

[Mystic Mock]

One of your very best posts Mock.
Clearly you have taken notice these last 7 years and come to just about the same conclusions as myself.

Thank you Joey.

I really can't get over how a party so prejudiced against many groups of people is apparently better at running the country than a party that is less hateful by a cosiderable difference? We're supposed to be voting for parties to win elections that are best at uniting people and giving people what we want, not a party that's dividing people and not giving people what we want, or indeed what's best for us.

[Beso]

You could argue that, but still ISIS didn't actually exist under Labour.

And The Police check that sort of stuff out on the Internet anyway, what the Tories want to shut down is normal Internet Porn as apparently it "does harm" and they are also planning on blocking off certain foreign media.

Maybe didnt exist under labour but they were instrumental in creating the void for it to nurture.