What Enoch Powel said in 1968 !!

[Kazanne]

This is what Enoch Powel said long before some of us were born,1968 ,do you agree with what he said all those years ago,Was he right or was he wrong?

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18671137_1811740798842127_1937265235853223707_n.jp g?oh=33c4563ad8ab96ea6b53a18cc3070859&oe=59A4FB79

[smudgie]

Some of his points may very well have been true, but I find his 'rivers of blood' speech very racist and can't agree with it.

[King Gizzard]

Most of the middle bit's true but instead of it being the immigrants fault it's the conservative's with cuts to NHS, education and housing. So not in the way he imagined..

[MB.]

Enoch Powell was a right twat, so I half agree with you there

[joeysteele]

If I'd been around then most of his comments would have disgusted me.
I read more racism as to a fair bit he said.

So,no I would not have agreed or supported him.

[Kazanne]

Some of his points may very well have been true, but I find his 'rivers of blood' speech very racist and can't agree with it.

Was he a Labour man or Conservative Smudgie? what was the river of blood speech,let me google it.

[Kazanne]

Enoch Powell was a right twat, so I half agree with you there

Did you know him?

[thesheriff443]

If Enoch Powell was born into an immigrant family he would of had a different view.
Should one person decide how and where another person should live based on skin colour and the country you were born in/

[thesheriff443]

[QUOTE=thesheriff443;9316225]If Enoch Powell was born into an immigrant family he would of had a different view.
Should one person decide how and where another person should live based on skin colour and the country you were born in?

[MB.]

Did you know him?

Oh, okay, I'm sure all the racism was an act and he was lovely behind closed doors

[Kazanne]

Oh, okay, I'm sure all the racism was an act and he was lovely behind closed doors

I only asked as you called him a twat,I was only asking about him as was chatting with someone about it today wondered how many on here knew of him as a politition,that is all:shrug: Were you around when he was in parliament? if you don't ask you never learn anything.

[thesheriff443]

I only asked as you called him a twat,I was only asking about him as was chatting with someone about it today wondered how many on here knew of him as a politition,that is all:shrug: Where you around when he was in parliament? if you don't ask you never learn anything.

Kazanne its like Oliver twist asking for more food.

[smudgie]

Was he a Labour man or Conservative Smudgie? what was the river of blood speech,let me google it.

Tory.
I can remember him in his latter years.

[Mystic Mock]

The one thing that he has definitely got right is there is an overpopulation crisis in the UK due to open door immigration which means that jobs are hard to come by for anybody living in the UK (including the immigrants) it will be harder to get seen at the NHS due to the overpopulation, and of course there will be issues with Schools as it's gonna be very hard to get into a top School if there's loads more people in the country.

However Enoch Powel seems to just be against all immigrants just because he doesn't like them which I completely disagree with as some immigration is good for this country financially.

[Kazanne]

Tory.
I can remember him in his latter years.

I have done a bit of reading up on him Smudgie,he seemed very controversial for his time,very outspoken too,the Tories sacked him apparently.

[Northern Monkey]

This is what Enoch Powel said long before some of us were born,1968 ,do you agree with what he said all those years ago,Was he right or was he wrong?

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18671137_1811740798842127_1937265235853223707_n.jp g?oh=33c4563ad8ab96ea6b53a18cc3070859&oe=59A4FB79

I don't think i can disagree with any of that particular quote tbh.

[the truth]

every word of this is accurate

[Brillopad]

This is what Enoch Powel said long before some of us were born,1968 ,do you agree with what he said all those years ago,Was he right or was he wrong?

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18671137_1811740798842127_1937265235853223707_n.jp g?oh=33c4563ad8ab96ea6b53a18cc3070859&oe=59A4FB79

No doubting every word of that has come to fruition. We are living his prediction and many had no say in that. There are many kinds of oppression and that is one of them.

[chuff me dizzy]

This is what Enoch Powel said long before some of us were born,1968 ,do you agree with what he said all those years ago,Was he right or was he wrong?

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18671137_1811740798842127_1937265235853223707_n.jp g?oh=33c4563ad8ab96ea6b53a18cc3070859&oe=59A4FB79

100% Right !!

[chuff me dizzy]

Was he a Labour man or Conservative Smudgie? what was the river of blood speech,let me google it.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3643823/Enoch-Powells-Rivers-of-Blood-speech.html

[JTM45]

Wow...........i hoped i'd never in this day and age see people who call themselves British acting like cheeleaders for such a truly repugnant man!

Our ancestors gave their lives fighting to stop people like him from ever ruling this Country and i'm extremely grateful for that.

Cheer on...........:bored:

[Wizard.]

Yes definitely if we carry on the way things are. It will be worse under Labour who let them all in come hell or high water.

[thesheriff443]

You only have to take away, I and n from sane, to get a totally different person.

Allegedly is one of the best words ever invented.

[Niamh.]

Closed for cleaning, can you all please stay ontopic and stop getting personal with/insulting eachother when i reopen it please

[Toy Soldier]

Closed for cleaning, can you all please stay ontopic and stop getting personal with/insulting eachother when i reopen it please

I feel like this is a tall order on a thread that's basically asking "Was this well known historical racist right or wrong" :umm2:...

I mean... personal and insulting... sort of is the only topic here.

[Niamh.]

I feel like this is a tall order on a thread that's basically asking "Was this well known historical racist right or wrong" :umm2:...

I mean... personal and insulting... sort of is the only topic here.

I actually know very little about him, I know the name but nothing about what he did or what he stood for

[Toy Soldier]

I actually know very little about him, I know the name but nothing about what he did or what he stood for

Upon Powell's death, Barbados-born Wilfred Wood, then Bishop of Croydon, stated, "Enoch Powell gave a certificate of respectability to white racist views which otherwise decent people were ashamed to acknowledge".

That sums it up quite well really. Like a proto-Farage... actually makes Farage look good.

I literally don't know how to say anything else on this topic without indirectly insulting forum members, tbh.

[Niamh.]

That sums it up quite well really. Like a proto-Farage... actually makes Farage look good.

I literally don't know how to say anything else on this topic without indirectly insulting forum members, tbh.

I might have a read up about him later

[Niamh.]

That sums it up quite well really. Like a proto-Farage... actually makes Farage look good.

I literally don't know how to say anything else on this topic without indirectly insulting forum members, tbh.

Just read his rivers of blood speech, wow. Although, i hate to say it but it's not too far off some stuff I've read lately regarding Muslims.

I thought it was pretty funny though, this bit :

That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of American proportions long before the end of the century.

Like what is he saying here exactly?? America was built on the back of immigrants who almost wiped out the indigenous people and after that they were the ones shipping in immigrants to use as slaves :/

[Toy Soldier]

Just read his rivers of blood speech, wow. Although, i hate to say it but it's not too far off some stuff I've read lately regarding Muslims.

I thought it was pretty funny though, this bit :

That tragic and intractable phenomenon which we watch with horror on the other side of the Atlantic but which there is interwoven with the history and existence of the States itself, is coming upon us here by our own volition and our own neglect. Indeed, it has all but come. In numerical terms, it will be of American proportions long before the end of the century.

Like what is he saying here exactly?? America was built on the back of immigrants who almost wiped out the indigenous people and after that they were the ones shipping in immigrants to use as slaves :/

That is exactly what he's saying though... Lamenting the end of slavery and quaking in his boots at the idea of people from "the dark continents" living there on any sort of equal footing as free citizens. But you're right, the whole thing reads almost word for word like something you might read in a tabloid opinion piece, on social media, or on a forum these days. The sort of dialogue that a year ago I would have sworn was long a thing of the past, died with the likes of this fellow. But here we are... It's back, loud and proud, and getting louder.

[Niamh.]

That is exactly what he's saying though... Lamenting the end of slavery and quaking in his boots at the idea of people from "the dark continents" living there on any sort of equal footing as free citizens. But you're right, the whole thing reads almost word for word like something you might read in a tabloid opinion piece, on social media, or on a forum these days. The sort of dialogue that a year ago I would have sworn was long a thing of the past, died with the likes of this fellow. But here we are... It's back, loud and proud, and getting louder.

It's pretty scary really, how backwards attitudes seem to be going. I mean I understand people are scared because of the attacks, I do get that but attitudes like Enoch powells only make everything even worse and only serve to divide people even more.....which is exactly the reaction that ISIS are looking for really

[Livia]

Wow...........i hoped i'd never in this day and age see people who call themselves British acting like cheeleaders for such a truly repugnant man!

Our ancestors gave their lives fighting to stop people like him from ever ruling this Country and i'm extremely grateful for that.

Cheer on...........:bored:

Our ancestors would not have picked up a weapon if they had known what would happen to the country they knew. No one can every talk about immigration without being branded. That's what I find repugnant.

[Toy Soldier]

Our ancestors would not have picked up a weapon if they had known what would happen to the country they knew. No one can every talk about immigration without being branded. That's what I find repugnant.

Hm yes, everyone wanting to have a sensible, reasonable discussion about immigration is "branded". The content of such "discussions" has absolutely nothing to do with it.

[Livia]

Hm yes, everyone wanting to have a sensible, reasonable discussion about immigration is "branded". The content of such "discussions" has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Everyone wanted a sensible discussion and no one listened. And that why we are facing Brexit. That's why the Right is having a bit of a comeback. No one asked whether diversity was what people wanted, it was forced upon the by people who think they're right about everything. Now, no one can speak about it without being branded a racist.

[Niamh.]

Back on topic please

[Brillopad]

Everyone wanted a sensible discussion and no one listened. And that why we are facing Brexit. That's why the Right is having a bit of a comeback. No one asked whether diversity was what people wanted, it was forced upon the by people who think they're right about everything. Now, no one can speak about it without being branded a racist.

Indeed - Brexit was what it took to be heard in these politically correct times when, even in the so-called adult world, name-calling is the name of the game and the way to go to shut down unpopular opinions with the left.

Brexit was inevitable and those crying the loudest about it carry a large proportion of the blame.

[Niamh.]

Indeed - Brexit was what it took to be heard in these politically correct times when, even in the so-called adult world, name-calling is the name of the game and the way to go to shut down unpopular opinions with the left.

Brexit was inevitable and those crying the loudest about it carry a large proportion of the blame.

I thought Brexit was about what was best for Britain though not pay back for not being allowed to talk about immigration?

[Brillopad]

I thought Brexit was about what was best for Britain though not pay back for not being allowed to talk about immigration?

It is in my opinion but I think there is little doubt that immigration was a reason why so many voted for Brexit. I do believe many, including myself, were frustrated about being shouted down every time they expressed concerns on this issue. It turned out this issue was a concern for the many rather than the few.

[longstar]

this is what Enoch said in a live interview in 1977, as said/ THE PROSPECT IS THAT POLITICIANS OF ALL PARTIES WILL SAY WELL ENOCH POWELL WAS RIGHT BUT WE DON'T SAY THAT IN PUBLIC BUT WE KNOW IT IN PRIVATE, ENOCH POWELL'S RIGHT AND IT WILL KNOW DOUBT DEVELOPERS HE SAYS, BUT ITS BETTER FOR US TO DO NOTHING NOW AND LET IT HAPPEN PERHAPS AFTER OUR TIME THEN TO SEIZE THE MANY POISONOUS NETTLES WHICH WE WOULD HAVE TO SEIZE IF WE WHERE AT THIS STAGE GOING TO ATTEMPT TO AVERT THE OUTCOME, SO LET IT GO ON UNTIL A THIRD OF CENTRAL LONDON A THIRD OF BIRMINGHAM, WOLVERHAMPTON, ARE COVERED UNTIL THE CIVIL WAR COMES, LET IT GO ON WE WON'T BE BLAMED, WILL EITHER HAVE GONE OR SLIP OUT UNDER SOMEHOW. Enoch did not really predict it, but he knew that it is going to happen, why, he was in the highest area's of government, and that means he had information that the public would never have been aware of, and he knew what was going to happen in the next 40 to 50 years, and it is becoming reality right now, he saw what the government was going to do in the future, and that's why he was really kicked out of politics.

[Marsh.]

This is what Enoch Powel said long before some of us were born,1968 ,do you agree with what he said all those years ago,Was he right or was he wrong?

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18671137_1811740798842127_1937265235853223707_n.jp g?oh=33c4563ad8ab96ea6b53a18cc3070859&oe=59A4FB79

Yeah, because the community and culture we had/have isn't as a result of immigration and "mixing with strangers" anyway. :joker:

[Lee.]

Enoch Powell was a big paedo. And still our present day politicians (Ms May) are covering up the huge child abuse ring within Westminster.

[Tozzie]

This is what Enoch Powel said long before some of us were born,1968 ,do you agree with what he said all those years ago,Was he right or was he wrong?

https://scontent-lht6-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/18671137_1811740798842127_1937265235853223707_n.jp g?oh=33c4563ad8ab96ea6b53a18cc3070859&oe=59A4FB79

I agree with what he said for the mostpart and there will be a bloodbath in this country one day, I and many other people feel the tension, it;s only a matter of time. Of course, most intelligent people know the terrorists are not really followers of the true muslim faith people are beginning to wonder who of all muslims that walk among us are good muslim people or who are terrorists. How can we differentiate who are radicalized muslims and who are peace loving muslims as radicalization is being carried out on our own doorsteps by our own neighbours yet we don't know which neighbours. In an ideal world everyone would get along but I feel as long as people are driven by religion there will never be a solution. Had people listened to Powell perhaps we wouldn't be all living in fear of our lives on a daily basis now. Of course he was deemed as racist, perhaps he was but that doesn't take away the fact that he in my eyes knew what he was talking about. The bloodshed on such a large scale in England these days is only the beginning. I feel for the young families growing up in these scary times.

[Brillopad]

I agree with what he said for the mostpart and there will be a bloodbath in this country one day, I and many other people feel the tension, it;s only a matter of time. Of course, most intelligent people know the terrorists are not really followers of the true muslim faith people are beginning to wonder who of all muslims that walk among us are good muslim people or who are terrorists. How can we differentiate who are radicalized muslims and who are peace loving muslims as radicalization is being carried out on our own doorsteps by our own neighbours yet we don't know which neighbours. In an ideal world everyone would get along but I feel as long as people are driven by religion there will never be a solution. Had people listened to Powell perhaps we wouldn't be all living in fear of our lives on a daily basis now. Of course he was deemed as racist, perhaps he was but that doesn't take away the fact that he in my eyes knew what he was talking about. The bloodshed on such a large scale in England these days is only the beginning. I feel for the young families growing up in these scary times.

Agreed. Good post Tozzie!

[Kizzy]

Enoch Powell was a big paedo. And still our present day politicians (Ms May) are covering up the huge child abuse ring within Westminster.

Well said Lee and wonderful to see you around :)

[Kizzy]

I agree with what he said for the mostpart and there will be a bloodbath in this country one day, I and many other people feel the tension, it;s only a matter of time. Of course, most intelligent people know the terrorists are not really followers of the true muslim faith people are beginning to wonder who of all muslims that walk among us are good muslim people or who are terrorists. How can we differentiate who are radicalized muslims and who are peace loving muslims as radicalization is being carried out on our own doorsteps by our own neighbours yet we don't know which neighbours. In an ideal world everyone would get along but I feel as long as people are driven by religion there will never be a solution. Had people listened to Powell perhaps we wouldn't be all living in fear of our lives on a daily basis now. Of course he was deemed as racist, perhaps he was but that doesn't take away the fact that he in my eyes knew what he was talking about. The bloodshed on such a large scale in England these days is only the beginning. I feel for the young families growing up in these scary times.

So what's the answer, we bend to the will of the racists as we cower in fear of a handful of radicals?

That doesn't sound very British to me.

[Tom4784]

Enoch Powell was a repugnant racist **** and nothing he said was right, it's not the fault of immigration that 'wives can't find hospital beds in childbirth' or school places are difficult to find. These are all a result of a Tory government that wants to decimate public services in favour of a privatised system.

It's not the fault of people of different races, it's the fault of a government who are using immigration as an excuse to destroy public services and a public who are gullible enough to accept it because they think it justifies their racism.

[Scarlett.]

Enoch Powell can go **** himself and his ****ty opinions. He wasn't right back then, he isn't right now.

[Northern Monkey]

Enoch Powell was a repugnant racist **** and nothing he said was right, it's not the fault of immigration that 'wives can't find hospital beds in childbirth' or school places are difficult to find. These are all a result of a Tory government that wants to decimate public services in favour of a privatised system.

It's not the fault of people of different races, it's the fault of a government who are using immigration as an excuse to destroy public services and a public who are gullible enough to accept it because they think it justifies their racism.

You know if Labour win and we see that the NHS is still overstretched with not enough beds and A&E bursting at the seems you're gonna have to find another scapegoat to blame.

[Toy Soldier]

You know if Labour win and we see that the NHS is still overstretched with not enough beds and A&E bursting at the seems you're gonna have to find another scapegoat to blame.
I think you've got that arse backwards there... If labour win and don't address the actual problems then of course nothing will change. That doesn't reflect at all on whether "all of those immigrants" have anything to do with it being overstretched.

... It's when the Tories stay in power, and if they do successfully drastically reduce immigration, AND YET none of our problems magically disappear and the NHS is still bursting at the seams... That's when those who blame migration as a catch-all for every problem will have to find another scapegoat. Seriously... What are the Powells of the world going to do if they drastically decrease immigration but problems persist? Who are they going to blame? I don't even have to ask I suppose; it will be "breeders on benefits" all of a sudden.

[Northern Monkey]

I think you've got that arse backwards there... If labour win and don't address the actual problems then of course nothing will change. That doesn't reflect at all on whether "all of those immigrants" have anything to do with it being overstretched.

... It's when the Tories stay in power, and if they do successfully drastically reduce immigration, AND YET none of our problems magically disappear and the NHS is still bursting at the seams... That's when those who blame migration as a catch-all for every problem will have to find another scapegoat. Seriously... What are the Powells of the world going to do if they drastically decrease immigration but problems persist? Who are they going to blame? I don't even have to ask I suppose; it will be "breeders on benefits" all of a sudden.

I do actually think the Tories have a big part to play in the NHS but underfunding is not the ONLY problem.It possibly half the problem.We have the Tories who are saying they will tackle immigration(probably won't) and they'll still carry on underfunding the NHS and running it into the ground.
Then we have Labour who would(hopefully) put more into the NHS and pay the nurses what they deserve but are weak on the immigration part.
Now i am going to vote Labour as i think they're the lesser of two evils but if they don't tackle the immigration part and it infact gets worse they're going to be flushing that extra funding down the toilet.
The NHS imo was never designed to be able to handle an ever increasing population.

[smudgie]

I do actually think the Tories have a big part to play in the NHS but underfunding is not the ONLY problem.It possibly half the problem.We have the Tories who are saying they will tackle immigration(probably won't) and they'll still carry on underfunding the NHS and running it into the ground.
Then we have Labour who would(hopefully) put more into the NHS and pay the nurses what they deserve but are weak on the immigration part.
Now i am going to vote Labour as i think they're the lesser of two evils but if they don't tackle the immigration part and it infact gets worse they're going to be flushing that extra funding down the toilet.
The NHS imo was never designed to be able to handle an ever increasing population.

I honestly think we have to consider how much longer we all live.
Being elderly in itself brings its own problems, bones break easier, more arthritis, more respiratory illnesses, hearts and other organs getting worn out.
So, as much as I can't stand Tim Farron, I think he is on to something when he suggests 1% tax rise across the board, as long as it is specifically goes to health and social care.

[Northern Monkey]

I honestly think we have to consider how much longer we all live.
Being elderly in itself brings its own problems, bones break easier, more arthritis, more respiratory illnesses, hearts and other organs getting worn out.
So, as much as I can't stand Tim Farron, I think he is on to something when he suggests 1% tax rise across the board, as long as it is specifically goes to health and social care.

I would happily pay a little more tax for the NHS aslong as i know that it's not getting wasted and the immigration issue is being dealt with too and not being left to grow.Otherwise that tax is going to be going nowhere.

[smudgie]

I would happily pay a little more tax for the NHS aslong as i know that it's not getting wasted and the immigration issue is being dealt with too and not being left to grow.Otherwise that tax is going to be going nowhere.

Can't say fairer than that N.Monkey.

[joeysteele]

Poxwell was a controversial politician,it seems another marmite one,either really liked or loathed.

Reading about him,I guess I would have felt his terminology at times stemmed from racial prejudice, he would not have been someone I rated myself.

He was apparently for sure a thorn in PM Edward Heath's side over Europe.
He sort of inclined to guide voters to vote Labour in 1974.

He also ended up an MP for a Down constituency in Northern Ireland for a time too.
He sure got about.

[Tom4784]

I think you've got that arse backwards there... If labour win and don't address the actual problems then of course nothing will change. That doesn't reflect at all on whether "all of those immigrants" have anything to do with it being overstretched.

... It's when the Tories stay in power, and if they do successfully drastically reduce immigration, AND YET none of our problems magically disappear and the NHS is still bursting at the seams... That's when those who blame migration as a catch-all for every problem will have to find another scapegoat. Seriously... What are the Powells of the world going to do if they drastically decrease immigration but problems persist? Who are they going to blame? I don't even have to ask I suppose; it will be "breeders on benefits" all of a sudden.

Pretty much, The tories aren't scapegoats so accusing me of using them as such is just very silly.

The NHS should be protected at all costs and it's problems stem from underfunding and the fact that the Tories' sabotage are turning medical staff away from it and towards private organisations instead. If the tories actually gave it the funding it needs then a lot of it's issues would be sorted but they aren't interested in that since the Tories benefit more from a private system.

[Tozzie]

So what's the answer, we bend to the will of the racists as we cower in fear of a handful of radicals?

That doesn't sound very British to me.

you tell me, if I knew the answer to that I wouldn't be sat typing on TBB. By the way it isn't only a handful of radicals anymore people are being radicalised by the day

[Brillopad]

So what's the answer, we bend to the will of the racists as we cower in fear of a handful of radicals?

That doesn't sound very British to me.

A handful!!! Either you are pretty crap at math or you see what you want to see.