We are creating a vacuum which allows radicals to fill the gap

[Brillopad]

http://www.express.co.uk/comment/expresscomment/810186/we-are-creating-vacuum-which-allows-radicals-to-fill-the-gap-khalid-mahmood-labour

From the horses mouth so to speak. A Muslim perspective.

[UserSince2005]

to late its already happened, now its only a matter of time before they get you.

[Northern Monkey]

He is right and it's what people have been saying for years.

When we hear "These are not muslims" and "this is not Islam" it's counter intuitive.It's burying our heads in the sand to appear tolerant.The truth is that we shouldn't be tolerant to Islamism and neither should the wider muslim community.
The biggest role to play is from within the muslim community on the ground where this is happening.
Changes in behaviour etc need reporting and watching closely.
Mosques need to be inspected and monitored by people who speak the lingo.Extremist propaganda books and leaflets need to be removed and kept out of Islamic schools and mosques.

[Kizzy]

You mean like trojan horse? :smug:

[Brillopad]

He is right and it's what people have been saying for years.

When we hear "These are not muslims" and "this is not Islam" it's counter intuitive.It's burying our heads in the sand to appear tolerant.The truth is that we shouldn't be tolerant to Islamism and neither should the wider muslim community.
The biggest role to play is from within the muslim community on the ground where this is happening.
Changes in behaviour etc need reporting and watching closely.
Mosques need to be inspected and monitored by people who speak the lingo.Extremist propaganda books and leaflets need to be removed and kept out of Islamic schools and mosques.

I Agree NM. If the Muslim community want to be a real and valued part of British society they need to be involved in rooting out the extremists. They need to demonstrate their disdain for the Jihadist mindset by words and actions. One without the other doesn't count for much.

If we are all in this together than we all need to be in this together. Platitudes will not suffice.

[Withano]

I Agree NM. If the Muslim community want to be a real and valued part of British society they need to be involved in rooting out the extremists. They need to demonstrate their disdain for the Jihadist mindset by words and actions. One without the other doesn't count for much.

If we are all in this together than we all need to be in this together. Platitudes will not suffice.

What have you done to root out extremists? Apart from make angry posts on social media

[Alf]

What have you done to root out extremists? Apart from make angry posts on social mediaWhat would you like her to do?

[Brillopad]

What have you done to root out extremists? Apart from make angry posts on social media

No one is talking every single individual, that's pretty much impossible. But as British citizens and as a whole Muslims should help to monitor their own as they are in a better position to do so. Is there a reason you think they shouldn't?

[Withano]

What would you like her to do?

Exactly what shes suggesting Muslims to do. I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. I'll keep you informed, best friend.

[Withano]

No one is talking every single individual, that's pretty much impossible. But as British citizens and as a whole Muslims should help to monitor their own as they are in a better position to do so. Is there a reason you think they shouldn't?

So you as an individual don't need to do anything? But others that you have grouped together do? Can you make this clearer pls, I can't have understood that correctly because its complete nonsense.

[Alf]

Exactly what shes suggesting Muslims to do. I'm trying to get to the bottom of it. I'll keep you informed, best friend.Cheers! me old mate!

[Withano]

Cheers! me old mate!

I'm none the wiser so far

[Brillopad]

So you as an individual don't need to do anything? But others that you have grouped together do? Can you make this clearer pls, I can't have understood that correctly because its complete nonsense.

So you think they should continue to do little. Fair enough but they can't complain if there continues to be a lack of trust can they.

[Withano]

So you think they should continue to do little. Fair enough but they can't complain if there continues to be a lack of trust can they.

What about those at the Didsbury Mosque and others like them handing out pamphlets supporting ISIS? I don't quite know how I could learn much and report such activities as not only would I stand out like a sore thumb, as a woman I guess I wouldn't even be allowed inside.

I think I understand your point as 'only muslims should monitor muslims, other communities are incapable' (correct me if I'm wrong). So Alf and I was wondering if you can give us a few examples of ways that you're monitoring all white female right wing feminists? You've clearly spent a long time thinking about this.

[Brillopad]

I think I understand your point as 'only muslims should monitor muslims, other communities are incapable' (correct me if I'm wrong). So Alf and I was wondering if you can give us a few examples of ways that you're monitoring all white female right wing feminists? You've clearly spent a long time thinking about this.

I don't think Alf was asking just you, your motivations for trying to include Alf being pretty obvious, just like you tried to suggest Kazanne and Livia were against me in another thread. That's pretty sad and if you feel the need to do that I know it isn't me with the problem. :nono::wavey:

[Kazanne]

So you think they should continue to do little. Fair enough but they can't complain if there continues to be a lack of trust can they.

Brillo,just don't not worth it girl:wavey: You've stated your opinion that should be enough,I am sure most people understand what you mean.

[Withano]

I don't think Alf was asking just you, your motivations for trying to include Alf being pretty obvious, just like you tried to suggest Kazanne and Livia were against me in another thread. That's pretty sad and if you feel the need to do that I know it isn't me with the problem. :nono::wavey:

None of this is helpful, are you terminating the discussion?

[Withano]

Brillo,just don't not worth it girl:wavey: You've stated your opinion that should be enough,I am sure most people understand what you mean.

Hi, do you know what she means, could you tell me?

[Kazanne]

Hi, do you know what she means, could you tell me?

LOL ,What,with your vast knowledge I dont need to explain it, you know very well what she means this is a classic form of baiting,I dont know why she was even giving you the time of day,she's a better person than me.Discussion terminated:hehe:

[Withano]

LOL ,What,with your vast knowledge I dont need to explain it, you know very well what she means this is a classic form of baiting,I dont know why she was even giving you the time of day,she's a better person than me.Discussion terminated:hehe:

This isnt baiting im very interested in this, how rude. Its not something I've heard of before and I would like to know more.

My understanding is people should monitor others from their own group and only their group. A bit like segregation but modern and cool. Still needs a bit of a clear up though. Do I ignore suspicious people from other groups, cos like they're not in my group how dare I look at them at all. Also how does one monitor?

[smudgie]

I agree with Mr.Mahmood.
We should all be looking out to keep people safe.
If I overheard a conversation or was aware of someone going to cause injury to anybody I would report them.

[Scarlett.]

I Agree NM. If the Muslim community want to be a real and valued part of British society they need to be involved in rooting out the extremists. They need to demonstrate their disdain for the Jihadist mindset by words and actions. One without the other doesn't count for much.

If we are all in this together than we all need to be in this together. Platitudes will not suffice.

This latest terrorist, Twatface McGee, was reported by his mosque a number of times to MI5. His friends and some youth workers also reported him.

[user104658]

For a second I thought you had actually done some proper reading and this thread was going to be about how the west left the door open for ISIS to rise by creating power vacuums in the middle east by bombing it to **** to plunder oil and sell guns.

Now I just feel foolish because, lo and behold, it's more tabloid opinion piece confirmation bias trash. Good link Brillo. Really insightful. Top journalism. :clap1:.

[smudgie]

This latest terrorist, Twatface McGee, was reported by his mosque a number of times to MI5.

Aye, that needs investigating, big time.
Might be interesting to find out the reason/excuse why it wasn't taken seriously.

[Brillopad]

For a second I thought you had actually done some proper reading and this thread was going to be about how the west left the door open for ISIS to rise by creating power vacuums in the middle east by bombing it to **** to plunder oil and sell guns.

Now I just feel foolish because, lo and behold, it's more tabloid opinion piece confirmation bias trash. Good link Brillo. Really insightful. Top journalism. :clap1:.

I don't feel the need to take myself so seriously. This is a forum, somewhere to express our opinions on, amongst other things, politics. I'm not trying to kid myself i am writing a piece for The Times.

[user104658]

I don't feel the need to take myself so seriously. This is a forum, somewhere to express our opinions on, amongst other things, politics. I'm not trying to kid myself i am writing a piece for The Times.

You didn't "write" anything :shrug:, you linked to a crappy tabloid confirmation bias piece. However, I likewise was kidding myself when I imagined that you might actually have read anything other than a crappy tabloid confirmation bias piece :wavey:

[Brillopad]

You didn't "write" anything :shrug:, you linked to a crappy tabloid confirmation bias piece. However, I likewise was kidding myself when I imagined that you might actually have read anything other than a crappy tabloid confirmation bias piece :wavey:

You were as that is not what I come on here for. If you do, good luck to you.

I find you quite a contradiction - strongly 'left' in most of your opinions on here but quite 'right' when it comes to judging others on what you perceive their intellectual capacity to be. You seem to consider yourself a cut above in that area. Are 'thick' people not allowed an opinion in your opinion?

[Shaun]

He has some fine points but they're points that're routinely made. And seem to be falling on deaf ears because there's cuts to pretty much everything that's left the police, counter-terrorism units, border patrols all vastly understaffed and underfunded. He says that more needs to be done by Muslims in Britain and yet this instance - the MEN bombing - appears to be a prime example of a failure to take citizens' concerns seriously.

Whilst, yes, there are certainly pockets of communities in the UK that have become isolated from British values, both sides are guilty of propagating "us and them" rhetoric. One side because it defies certain interpretations of Islam, another because they're "brown and funny-smelling" or whatever.

I'm not sure if anything can be done with city areas that wouldn't draw allusions to ethnic cleansing and I'm not sure forcibly changing who gets to be Imam and who doesn't would have any better or worse effects. Education seems the easiest answer and yet the least immediately gratifying.

[longstar]

my view is that the military and Intelligence organisations have been wasting there time and resources in Afghanistan, when the enemy is on are streets, and there is a hell more that just 3.000 terrorists in this country, the government will never tell you the real number because it will cause a huge panic in the country, and the ordinary man and woman will take the law into there own hands, and you will end up with blood on the streets, and remember that politician's have said that we have to get used to it because its part of are life now, and that means, let it go on, we will do nothing about it, so you can expect a future in every day of every week where you will get suicide bombings, car bombings, isis fighters killing people in shopping malls, markets, sports stadiums, music arena's, and even villages are not safe, even more children will be killed so the warning signs where already there.

[the truth]

Not all muslims are terrorists, but nearly all terrorists are muslim

[JTM45]

Not all muslims are terrorists, but nearly all terrorists are muslim

Highly original. :sleep:

There's nothing like constructive discussion and that's nothing like constructive discussion!

[Kizzy]

I Agree NM. If the Muslim community want to be a real and valued part of British society they need to be involved in rooting out the extremists. They need to demonstrate their disdain for the Jihadist mindset by words and actions. One without the other doesn't count for much.

If we are all in this together than we all need to be in this together. Platitudes will not suffice.

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/salman-abedi-manchester-attack-reported-family-imam-friends-did-nothing-a7757726.html

[Brillopad]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/salman-abedi-manchester-attack-reported-family-imam-friends-did-nothing-a7757726.html

I have seen that Kizzy and, like many I'm sure, am glad to see this, and am disgusted it doesn't appear to have been acted upon - but I hope some lessons are learned from this.

However it is the only case that we are aware of I believe. Many more Muslims need to be doing the same thing.

[DemolitionRed]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/salman-abedi-manchester-attack-reported-family-imam-friends-did-nothing-a7757726.html

The problem we face is, many newspapers don't want to print this stuff. When Muslims speak out, the only people who hear them are the people who read papers like the Independent or the Guardian.

Its a sad world when we find our nation turning on an entire people because what they read encourages them to believe Muslims are doing nothing and Muslims are potentially evil. Its a very deliberate push on mass hysteria and hate.

[Kizzy]

I have seen that Kizzy and, like many I'm sure, am glad to see this, and am disgusted it doesn't appear to have been acted upon - but I hope some lessons are learned from this.

However it is the only case that we are aware of I believe. Many more Muslims need to be doing the same thing.

Yes this is the only case that has so far come to light, how are we to believe this is an isolated incident? It has been stated by those in our public services how cuts have stretched counter terrorism measures and community policing.

'Austerity' ( bombing campaigns) have taken the funds desperately needed to fight home grown terrorism since 2010, it is our govt that have failed to protect us even though they have been well aware of the dangers of radicalisation since 2005.

Your view that 'more Muslims need to be doing the same thing' what thing?... Do you think that every Muslim family in the UK is complacent about the terror threat that they have jihadists living next door but just keep shtum?

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/05/27/one-man-cant-speak-billion-muslims-might-want-watching-video/

[Niamh.]

This latest terrorist, Twatface McGee, was reported by his mosque a number of times to MI5. His friends and some youth workers also reported him.

There you go, I don't know what else they're supposed to do if that's the case

[Niamh.]

Not all muslims are terrorists, but nearly all terrorists are muslim

Not all men are are serial killers, but nearly all serial killers are men .........

[Brillopad]

Yes this is the only case that has so far come to light, how are we to believe this is an isolated incident? It has been stated by those in our public services how cuts have stretched counter terrorism measures and community policing.

'Austerity' ( bombing campaigns) have taken the funds desperately needed to fight home grown terrorism since 2010, it is our govt that have failed to protect us even though they have been well aware of the dangers of radicalisation since 2005.

Your view that 'more Muslims need to be doing the same thing' what thing?... Do you think that every Muslim family in the UK is complacent about the terror threat that they have jihadists living next door but just keep shtum?

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/05/27/one-man-cant-speak-billion-muslims-might-want-watching-video/

We don't know though do we. You think they don't, I have my doubts and don't really believe the majority do.

What we do know is that many Muslim communities are very close-knit and keep to themselves. They don't integrate well. That makes people question them. The emphasis is not on just us - it is on Muslims as well.

[Kizzy]

Not all men are are serial killers, but nearly all serial killers are men .........

When I think of terrorism I am as likely to think of right wing extremists as Muslim, Anders Breivik, Thomas Muir and Jeremy Joseph Christian ( what an unfortunate name)

[Kizzy]

More food for thought...

https://www.indy100.com/article/white-supremacists-killed-more-people-week-refugee-terrorists-trump-travel-ban-countries-40-years-7761101

[DemolitionRed]

The thing is, Muslims integrate well in the community. Unlike some religions who keep themselves very much to themselves, none British Muslims embrace a lot of Britishness and most British Muslims are proud of being British.

By constantly sowing that seed of fear, we are quickly growing into a nation of hate and animosity. Imagine being born in a country where you know you're not wanted. We need to imagine what it must be like walking in their shoes. If I were living in a country where 50% of its citizens saw me as a threat, I'd be concerned. I would probably try and lay low and I'd eventually become bitter.

Sadly, this unfair and unjust reaction towards Muslims will close integration down and push Muslims into closed communities. We have to ask ourselves- Are Muslims more likely to radicalise if they have been shown a lot of hatred, not just by the right wing brigade but by granny at the corner shop? Because if the answer is 'yes', we need to stop and start taking more responsibility before all hell brakes loose.

[DemolitionRed]

More food for thought...

https://www.indy100.com/article/white-supremacists-killed-more-people-week-refugee-terrorists-trump-travel-ban-countries-40-years-7761101

Thanks for pointing that out.

[Brillopad]

The thing is, Muslims integrate well in the community. Unlike some religions who keep themselves very much to themselves, none British Muslims embrace a lot of Britishness and most British Muslims are proud of being British.

By constantly sowing that seed of fear, we are quickly growing into a nation of hate and animosity. Imagine being born in a country where you know you're not wanted. We need to imagine what it must be like walking in their shoes. If I were living in a country where 50% of its citizens saw me as a threat, I'd be concerned. I would probably try and lay low and I'd eventually become bitter.

Sadly, this unfair and unjust reaction towards Muslims will close integration down and push Muslims into closed communities. We have to ask ourselves- Are Muslims more likely to radicalise if they have been shown a lot of racial hatred, not just by the right wing brigade but by granny at the corner shop? Because if the answer is 'yes', we need to stop and start taking more responsibility before all hell brakes loose.

For the majority It isn't about race so constantly trying to imply it is, is in itself inflammatory and smacks of an agenda in my opinion.

It is about a prehistoric religion that is known for its many dubious practices and very poor treatment of women in an otherwise modern world. It is about its blatant advertisement of that prehistoric and inhuman belief system on the streets of the West with no regard or respect for the indiginous population, as you well know.

Lack of respect begets lack of respect. It is as simple as that. :shrug:

[Kizzy]

For the majority It isn't about race so constantly trying to imply it is, is in itself inflammatory and smacks of an agenda in my opinion.

It is about a prehistoric religion that is known for its many dubious practices and very poor treatment of women in an otherwise modern world. It is about its blatant advertisement of that prehistoric and inhuman belief system on the streets of the West with no regard or respect for the indiginous population, as you well know.

Lack of respect begets lack of respect. It is as simple as that. :shrug:

So your issue is with Muslims in general then not extremists?... Ok, I can't be bothered with this debate again.

[DemolitionRed]

I should of known! I mean, the thread title is "We are creating a vacuum which allows radicals to fill the gap" Instead of "are we creating a vacuum which allows radicals to fill the gap?". It was an absolute before it even got discussed... waste of time!

[Kazanne]

For the majority It isn't about race so constantly trying to imply it is, is in itself inflammatory and smacks of an agenda in my opinion.

It is about a prehistoric religion that is known for its many dubious practices and very poor treatment of women in an otherwise modern world. It is about its blatant advertisement of that prehistoric and inhuman belief system on the streets of the West with no regard or respect for the indiginous population, as you well know.

Lack of respect begets lack of respect. It is as simple as that. :shrug:

:clap1::clap1:

[Brillopad]

So your issue is with Muslims in general then not extremists?... Ok, I can't be bothered with this debate again.

It was clearly in response to a post that was being intentionally inflammatory, in my opinion, and implying any distrust of Muslims is about racism - it isn't. I don't trust white poligimous religious cults in America for example where fifty year old men marry under-age girls so what does that make me then in your opinion then.

This lack of acknowledgement of why people feel this way and constantly trying to state it is racism is a diversion tactic and a big part of the problem. As long as people continue do this things won't change.

[Kizzy]

It was clearly in response to a post that was being intentionally inflammatory, in my opinion, and implying any distrust of Muslims is about racism - it isn't. I don't trust white poligimous religious cults in America for example where fifty year old men marry under-age girls so what does that make me then in your opinion then.

This lack of acknowledgement of why people feel this way and constantly trying to state it is racism is a diversion tactic and a big part of the problem. As long as people continue do this things won't change.

Would you have worded your post any different to anyone else, Why?

If they are your views and that's how you feel then surely that applies across the board?...

Can you now see though why occasionally people can consider what you say prejudiced? Anyhow I don't want to be drawn into any cyclical debates about religion so I'll bow out.

The thread title suggests this is an issue regarding radicals, if you had a different agenda you should maybe have made that clearer.