Young woman sentenced to death for being raped

[Brillopad]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4555734/Woman-19-sentenced-die-raped-Pakistan.html

Something really has to be done about this backward downright corrupt religious hate of women. That poor girl. Honestly I am beginning to think it would be better for baby girls to die at birth than live and suffer at the hands of these monsters.

Shame on any religion that condones this behaviour.

[Marsh.]

No, this is an example of someone twisting religious words to save themselves. The rapists father is a part of the court.

It also says the police are investigating so they won't get away with it.

[Brillopad]

No, this is an example of someone twisting religious words to save themselves. The rapists father is a part of the court.

It also says the police are investigating so they won't get away with it.

They are - but I wouldn't hold my breath. That poor Girl's life is ruined now. If she isn't killed she will be an outcast - unfit to be married which is the only way for women to survive there.

[Beso]

So if she shags someone else her family have the right to kill her by stoning her to death......just digest that.

[Kazanne]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4555734/Woman-19-sentenced-die-raped-Pakistan.html

Something really has to be done about this backward downright corrupt religious hate of women. That poor girl. Honestly I am beginning to think it would be better for baby girls to die at birth than live and suffer at the hands of these monsters.

Shame on any religion that condones this behaviour.

Oh Brillo I saw this happen once,it's vile,the woman is buried standing so just her head and shoulders are visible,then these brave arseholes hurl bricks and stones chanting like demons,it was sickening to watch,it made me angry and upset and yes cry,what sort of mindset thinks it's ok to do that to another human being especially one who has done nothing wrong,I would rather die than live in a country like that.

[Beso]

Oh Brillo I saw this happen once,it's vile,the woman is buried standing so just her head and shoulders are visible,then these brave arseholes hurl bricks and stones chanting like demons,it was sickening to watch,it made me angry and upset and yes cry,what sort of mindset thinks it's ok to do that to another human being especially one who has done nothing wrong,I would rather die than live in a country like that.

I saw that kez.

Utterly barbaric, it was like watching some biblica film, only it was brutally real...

[Marsh.]

Why would you watch something like that? :umm2:

[Denver]

It is a cultural thing that is hard to be stopped

[Beso]

It is a cultural thing that is hard to be stopped

I wonder if its happened in the uk yet.

[Denver]

I wonder if its happened in the uk yet.

The main culture problem here is fgm

[Kazanne]

I saw that kez.

Utterly barbaric, it was like watching some biblica film, only it was brutally real...

Yes parmnion,one of the worst things I have ever seen,just barbaric,

[Withano]

What a sad story. Doesn't look like the stories finished yet though

An arrest warrant has now been issued for the members of the tribal council, and the woman taken to a refuge away from the village.
Another warrant has also been issued for the alleged rapist


Looks like the injustice has been recognised. Hope theres more updates soon.

You might want to edit the title and your OP. It kinda looks like you just read the clickbait title, and not the article.

[Kazanne]

Why would you watch something like that? :umm2:

I am a curious soul and I needed to see that people were actually capable of that,and yes they are.

[Beso]

Yes parmnion,one of the worst things I have ever seen,just barbaric,

The sad and bitter truth is that there are all kinds of barbaric videos out there all featuring islamic punishments.

[Beso]

What a sad story. Doesn't look like the stories finished yet though



Looks like the injustice has been recognised. Hope theres more updates soon.

The injustice is the fact she is innocent, if she were guilty then the punishment would stand..

[Withano]

The injustice is the fact she is innocent, if she were guilty then the punishment would stand..

I think the punishment would be revoked considering theres a warrant for the arrest of the people that made that decision.

[Brillopad]

I am a curious soul and I needed to see that people were actually capable of that,and yes they are.

I agree Kaz it is hard to accept anyone can actually do that so sometimes you have to see for yourself.

I also saw the last bit of one on u-tube. I don't know how it started but the girl was only 17 and one man brought down a large rock on her head. She was still alive at that point and the men there started pulling at her clothes and exposing her - it was depraved.

[Northern Monkey]

The sad and bitter truth is that there are all kinds of barbaric videos out there all featuring islamic punishments.

Oh yeah i once saw one of some Taliban hacking someone's head off with a machete.Not nice to watch.

[DemolitionRed]

How the hell do people watch this stuff? I think I'd be ill for the rest of my life if I saw that video.

I did however, read 'Princess'. A trilogy written by a Saudi princess. She went into hospital to give birth in the royal birthing suite but became inquisitive at the constant crying of a woman. It turned out the woman was around 15 years old and had been raped by her brothers friends. She was in hospital to give birth... the baby a result of the rape. She was then allowed to breast feed the baby for six months before being stoned to death. In this particular case I believe the princess intervened.

We need to stop supporting cultures like SA where this sort of thing is a common occurrence.

[Brillopad]

How the hell do people watch this stuff? I think I'd be ill for the rest of my life if I saw that video.

I did however, read 'Princess'. A trilogy written by a Saudi princess. She went into hospital to give birth in the royal birthing sweet but became inquisitive at the constant crying of a woman. It turned out the woman was around 15 years old and had been raped by her brothers friends. She was in hospital to give birth... the baby a result of the rape. She was then allowed to breast feed the baby for six months before being stoned to death. In this particular case I believe the princess intervened.

We need to stop supporting cultures like SA where this sort of thing is a common occurrence.

With you on that.

[jaxie]

Are we talking about that peaceful religion again that must be defended at all costs?This isn't the religion, right, just one little bitty corner of it? Of course she forced him to get out his gun. Was she covered from head to foot as well the temptress? If Justice is served by the police I wonder what her life will be like 5 years down the line if her own family haven't honor killed her.

[Nicky91]

wow this is really news i never expected to read :hehe:

[the truth]

Are we talking about that peaceful religion again that must be defended at all costs?This isn't the religion, right, just one little bitty corner of it? Of course she forced him to get out his gun. Was she covered from head to foot as well the temptress? If Justice is served by the police I wonder what her life will be like 5 years down the line if her own family haven't honor killed her.

yes the endless liberal apologists demand us all the agree there is no problem within islam...when the heck will these pc brainwashed apologists wake up to the fact this is a massive massive problem that is fundamental within islam and has come to our shores , particularly with the 2 million plus illegal immigrants

[Niamh.]

How the hell do people watch this stuff? I think I'd be ill for the rest of my life if I saw that video.

I did however, read 'Princess'. A trilogy written by a Saudi princess. She went into hospital to give birth in the royal birthing suite but became inquisitive at the constant crying of a woman. It turned out the woman was around 15 years old and had been raped by her brothers friends. She was in hospital to give birth... the baby a result of the rape. She was then allowed to breast feed the baby for six months before being stoned to death. In this particular case I believe the princess intervened.

We need to stop supporting cultures like SA where this sort of thing is a common occurrence.

Yeah same here. That's an horrific story, as a woman and mother of a daughter, I'm so thankful to have been born this side of the world

[Withano]

Are we talking about that peaceful religion again that must be defended at all costs?This isn't the religion, right, just one little bitty corner of it? Of course she forced him to get out his gun. Was she covered from head to foot as well the temptress? If Justice is served by the police I wonder what her life will be like 5 years down the line if her own family haven't honor killed her.

Religion doesnt come in to it at all:umm2:

Edit: I just reread the OP, I don't think Brillo read the article

[Livia]

Another example of the peace-loving Islamic faith. Those justifying it, acquaint yourselves with what Pakistan is like for women.

[Beso]

Another example of the peace-loving Islamic faith. Those justifying it, acquaint yourselves with what Pakistan is like for women.

Thats why people should watch these videos. Take away that " i aint seen it so it doesnt happen" mentallity.

[jaxie]

Religion doesnt come in to it at all:umm2:

Edit: I just reread the OP, I don't think Brillo read the article

:nono: Of course we can't criticise that religion, we must turn a blind eye at all costs.

[Withano]

:nono: Of course we can't criticise that religion, we must turn a blind eye at all costs.

I don't understand the link to Muslims apart from the OP of the thread. Have you read the article? Or just read Brillos take on it. Religion isnt mentioned at all.

[Withano]

:nono: Of course we can't criticise that religion, we must turn a blind eye at all costs.

If this was about Muslims, then why are they bad for setting a warrant on the entire jurys arrest
Why are muslims bad for putting the woman in refuge
Why are muslims bad for putting a warrant on the alleged rapists arrest

Christ read the article and not clickbait titles. This is an unfinished story that is likely to have a happier ending. Sorry that doesnt fit with the anti-muslim agenda. Its clear you haven't read the article.

[DemolitionRed]

Thats why people should watch these videos. Take away that " i aint seen it so it doesnt happen" mentallity.

Oh **** off! should we all watch the ISIS beheading too? should we watch the Chinese videos of Chinese cooks throwing live cats into boiling water? Do we need to watch these things to know it goes on?

[jaxie]

If this was about Muslims, then why are they bad for setting a warrant on the entire jurys arrest
Why are muslims bad for putting the woman in refuge
Why are muslims bad for putting a warrant on the alleged rapists arrest

Christ read the article and not clickbait titles. This is an unfinished story that is likely to have a happier ending. Sorry that doesnt fit with the anti-muslim agenda. Its clear you haven't read the article.

Clearly you didn't read what I said. And don't know much about the country in the article.

[DemolitionRed]

Are we talking about that peaceful religion again that must be defended at all costs?This isn't the religion, right, just one little bitty corner of it? Of course she forced him to get out his gun. Was she covered from head to foot as well the temptress? If Justice is served by the police I wonder what her life will be like 5 years down the line if her own family haven't honor killed her.

Nobody is defending it at all costs. Some of us just don't like the onslaught of hatred on here and elsewhere. Some of us want to stop this turning into a war on our own shore against one religious people.

I care very much about what the Saudis, Afghans and Yemen do to their women. I think its equally barbaric that the Chinese execute people en masse but I'm not going to go out of my way to demonize Chinese people just as I'm not going to join in the cheering hatred of Muslim wrongs on here.
Its pointless, it gets venomous and it has a reflection on who we are as human beings.

[Withano]

Clearly you didn't read what I said. And don't know much about the country in the article.

You went on about religion despite it not being a relevant factor, thats all I was commenting on. You'll see what I mean after you read the article.
There are probably hundreds of threads on tibb where you criticising the Muslim faith might make sense (and make you look terrible but thats your prerogative). It doesnt make sense to share those views here.

[jaxie]

Nobody is defending it at all costs. Some of us just don't like the onslaught of hatred on here and elsewhere. Some of us want to stop this turning into a war on our own shore against one religious people.

I care very much about what the Saudis, Afghans and Yemen do to their women. I think its equally barbaric that the Chinese execute people en masse but I'm not going to go out of my way to demonize Chinese people just as I'm not going to join in the cheering hatred of Muslim wrongs on here.
Its pointless, it gets venomous and it has a reflection on who we are as human beings.

Some of us aren't closing our eyes to the more unpleasant elements of certain religions. Some of us aren't demonising people, we're pointing out some really nasty aspects of some religious beliefs.

[Niamh.]

You went on about religion despite it not being a relevant factor, thats all I was commenting on. You'll see what I mean after you read the article.

yeah tbf the article doesn't even mention what religion that council were, I googled that word for the council and it's not specific to Islam, it could also be Hindu so presumably it's more about tribal "justice" rather than religious and clearly the law of the land don't agree with it

[jaxie]

You went on about religion despite it not being a relevant factor, thats all I was commenting on. You'll see what I mean after you read the article.
There are probably hundreds of threads on tibb where you criticising the Muslim faith might make sense (and make you look terrible but thats your prerogative). It doesnt make sense to share those views here.

If you really believe that I can't help you.

I also quite happily criticise other faith and ridiculous archaic doctrine.

[Withano]

yeah tbf the article doesn't even mention what religion that council were, I googled that word for the council and it's not specific to Islam, it could also be Hindu so presumably it's more about tribal "justice" rather than religious

Its literally a story about authorities in the country bringing justice to the victim. Religion isn't relevant, it never was.
the bad guys in the story are getting arrested, the good guys in the story are making that happen, and the victim in the story is safe. Whether they share a religion or not is irrelevant! I dont know how the thread spiralled here (AGAIN!)

[Withano]

If you really believe that I can't help you.

I also quite happily criticise other faith and ridiculous archaic doctrine.

If this was about Muslims, then why are they bad for setting a warrant on the entire jurys arrest
Why are muslims bad for putting the woman in refuge
Why are muslims bad for putting a warrant on the alleged rapists arrest

Christ read the article and not clickbait titles. This is an unfinished story that is likely to have a happier ending. Sorry that doesnt fit with the anti-muslim agenda. Its clear you haven't read the article.

Then answer these questions. If its about all muslims being bad, explain how this fits with your take on the article.

[jaxie]

yeah tbf the article doesn't even mention what religion that council were, I googled that word for the council and it's not specific to Islam, it could also be Hindu so presumably it's more about tribal "justice" rather than religious and clearly the law of the land don't agree with it

The state religion in Pakistan is Islam where it is practised by 95 to 98% of the people of the nation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Pakistan

[jaxie]

Then answer these questions. If its about all muslims being bad, explain how this fits with your take on the article.

This is again where you read what you want to see rather than what I say. I have never said anything about all Muslims being bad. What I have said is there are problems in their religion and beliefs. Beliefs are taught, no person is born with them.

[Withano]

This is again where you read what you want to see rather than what I say. I have never said anything about all Muslims being bad. What I have said is there are problems in their religion and beliefs. Beliefs are taught, no person is born with them.

Thats makes no sense unless you believe that the authorities are part of the 2% of non-muslim people bringing the jury to justice. Honestly read the article!

One jury member was related to the rapist.
Authorities are arresting all of them.
This is nothing to do with religion.

There are good people and bad people in this one story who obviously have different beliefs. You brushed them all together because you didn't read the article and you wanted to spew hatred.

[Niamh.]

The state religion in Pakistan is Islam where it is practised by 95 to 98% of the people of the nation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Pakistan

Yes I know that.

What's 2-5% of 188.9million? :think:

[Beso]

Oh **** off! should we all watch the ISIS beheading too? should we watch the Chinese videos of Chinese cooks throwing live cats into boiling water? Do we need to watch these things to know it goes on?

No need for insults by the way.

Yes we should watch so we bring the full horror of these punishments to life.

Also if you are willing to argue and debate with (as well as insulting) other people its best to have the full facts no matter how horrific.

[Beso]

Its literally a story about authorities in the country bringing justice to the victim. Religion isn't relevant, it never was.
the bad guys in the story are getting arrested, the good guys in the story are making that happen, and the victim in the story is safe. Whether they share a religion or not is irrelevant! I dont know how the thread spiralled here (AGAIN!)

So she is innocent and they are guilty....without a proper trial!!

Ever fancied moving to the rural areas of pakistan?

[Vanessa]

Saw this on Facebook. Sad that these things still happen on the 21st century :sad:

[jaxie]

Yes I know that.

What's 2-5% of 188.9million? :think:

Don't know but anything official like a council is pretty unlikely to be anything but Islam based. You can't be a judge or run for President if you aren't a Muslim.

[jaxie]

Thats makes no sense unless you believe that the authorities are part of the 2% of non-muslim people bringing the jury to justice. Honestly read the article!

One jury member was related to the rapist.
Authorities are arresting all of them.
This is nothing to do with religion.

There are good people and bad people in this one story who obviously have different beliefs. You brushed them all together because you didn't read the article and you wanted to spew hatred.

If you are just going to presume what I'm wanting don't bother to respond. It's quite easy really. You interpret what I say for your own ends. I'll say again I'm not talking about people I'm talking about beliefs.

[Withano]

So she is innocent and they are guilty....without a proper trial!!

Ever fancied moving to the rural areas of pakistan?

Getting arrested doesn't make you guilty? You took a leap and threw words in my mouth there

[Niamh.]

Don't know but anything official like a council is pretty unlikely to be anything but Islam based. You can't be a judge or run for President if you aren't a Muslim.

a village panchayat isn't official like a judge or president though, it's a council that runs individual villages, presumably if the village is Hindi then their council would be too? I'm not saying it was but since the article didn't mention religion at all I don't see how either could be ruled out

[Withano]

If you are just going to presume what I'm wanting don't bother to respond. It's quite easy really. You interpret what I say for your own ends.

No. My responses to you have been along thhe lines of why are you briging up Muslims, its not relevant. It still isnt. Thats not me presuming what youve said. Thats me calling you out for saying it.
Lets be serious, you read the op and its title, and you ran with it. You didnt read the article, nor did the OP.

[jaxie]

a village panchayat isn't official like a judge or president though, it's a council that runs individual villages, presumably if the village is Hindi then their council would be too? I'm not saying it was but since the article didn't mention religion at all I don't see how either could be ruled out

I find it hard to believe in a state run by a specific religion that a council for any other faith would have the power to sentence someone to death. Bearing in mind it states in the Constitution that non Muslims can't hold roles like judges.

[Beso]

Getting arrested doesn't make you guilty? You took a leap and threw words in my mouth there

When you say the VICTIM, THE BAD GUYS and THE GOOD GUYS...seems to me you already made your mind up about guilt and innocents..before a proper trial....what am i supposed to think ffs.

[Beso]

http://m.hindustantimes.com/world-news/pakistan-woman-alleges-rape-panchayat-sentences-her-to-death/story-xyi7WDc7HgQnm9GBterXbP.html


You get a bit more info here.

[jaxie]

No. My responses to you have been along thhe lines of why are you briging up Muslims, its not relevant. It still isnt. Thats not me presuming what youve said. Thats me calling you out for saying it.
Lets be serious, you read the op and its title, and you ran with it. You didnt read the article, nor did the OP.

Oh well ok if you want to believe some obscure fairy council, from a different religion gave out a death sentence in a islamic run state, you go right ahead.

[Withano]

When you say the VICTIM, THE BAD GUYS and THE GOOD GUYS...seems to me you already made your mind up about guilt and innocents..before a proper trial....what am i supposed to think ffs.

I mean, the 'victim' was literally raped
The 'bad guys' did literally try to sentence her to death
And the 'good guys' are literally trying to sort the sitch out

I didn't think my nicknames would confuse anyone, but I'll avoid using them in future soz.

[Beso]

I mean, the 'victim' was literally raped
The 'bad guys' did literally try to sentence her to death
And the 'good guys' are literally trying to sort the sitch out

I didn't think my nicknames would confuse anyone, but I'll avoid using them in future soz.

How do you know she was raped when there hasnt been a proper trial?

[Withano]

Oh well ok if you want to believe some obscure fairy council, from a different religion gave out a death sentence in a islamic run state, you go right ahead.

I've said countless times that their religion doesn't matter, keep up. There are goods and bads in this story, and their faith could be the same or different. Only one of us is grouping everybody involved together. You should work on that. (Have you read the article yet?) you literally criticised muslims on a topic where people (that are presumably muslim) have set warrants on the arrest of others that have perverted the justice system.

[jaxie]

I've said countless times that their religion doesn't matter, keep up. There are goods and bads in this story, and their faith could be the same or different. Only one of us is grouping everybody involved together. You should work on that. (Have you read the article yet?) you literally criticised muslims on a topic where people (that are presumably muslim) have set warrants on the arrest of others that have perverted the justice system.

I didn't criticise Muslims I criticised their faith. Keep up.

[Withano]

How do you know she was raped when there hasnt been a proper trial?

Have you read the article yet jesus christ, why am i explaining the article to everybody that wants to discuss it.

The jury knew she was raped, accepted this, and sentenced her because she led him on. (Paraphrasing)

[Withano]

I didn't criticise Muslims I criticised their faith. Keep up.

Damn that muslim faith, always trying to get justice for rape victims :fist:

[Beso]

Have you read the article yet jesus christ, why am i explaining the article to everybody that wants to discuss it.

The jury knew she was raped, accepted this, and sentenced her because she led him on. (Paraphrasing)

Have you read it? Cause it says she wilfully slept with him, not led him on..but like you keep gaping on about its nkt a proper court...so a proper trial hasnt happened yet but you have already made your mind up on who is guilty and innocent....you sound like an old 1970's racist.

[Withano]

Have you read it? Cause it says she wilfully slept with him, not led him on..but like you keep gaping on about its nkt a proper court...so a proper trial hasnt happened yet but you have already made your mind up on who is guilty and innocent....you sound like an old 1970's racist.

Actually I love willfully sleeping with people at gunpoint, and I completely recommend it for everybody. Not doing so would make me racist, obviously.

[jaxie]

Damn that muslim faith, always trying to get justice for rape victims :fist:

And of course you are selecting points and completely missing the fact that she was sentenced to death in the first place.

[DemolitionRed]

No need for insults by the way.

Yes we should watch so we bring the full horror of these punishments to life.

Also if you are willing to argue and debate with (as well as insulting) other people its best to have the full facts no matter how horrific.

I used a little rhetoric in what I said and once again your offended.

[Niamh.]

I find it hard to believe in a state run by a specific religion that a council for any other faith would have the power to sentence someone to death. Bearing in mind it states in the Constitution that non Muslims can't hold roles like judges.

there are atleast 40 anyway

https://www.dawn.com/news/746607

To add, :

"Honour" killings and death sentences are usually sanctioned through the panchayat system in Pakistani villages, but they have no legal standing.

http://www.indiatimes.com/news/world/19-year-old-pakistan-woman-who-alleged-rape-sentenced-to-death-by-panchayat-322671.html



Again I'm not saying that they're weren't Muslim but I am saying it doesn't state anything at all about religion. Seems like in this case it's about a father "protecting" his son over anything else

[Withano]

And of course you are selecting points and completely missing the fact that she was sentenced to death in the first place.

Yes.. and many, if not all of those people presumably had the same faith as many, if not all of those that are literally arresting that said jury.
Ie, discussion of faith is illogical and does not stem from the story, and instead stems from presumably personal issues, or too much trust in the OPs original take, which did not stem from the story.

[Tom4784]

This article doesn't mention islam at all, It's a tribal court system that's to blame here, I think people are basically thinking 'Pakistan + Arabic people = EVIL BACKWARDS MUSLIMS'.

[Niamh.]

This article doesn't mention islam at all, It's a tribal court system that's to blame here, I think people are basically thinking 'Pakistan + Arabic people = EVIL BACKWARDS MUSLIMS'.

These Panchayats are also a big thing in India where almost 80% of the population are Hindu.

[Tom4784]

These Panchayats are also a big thing in India where almost 80% of the population are Hindu.

Yup, it's a backwards system but religion's not to blame here.

[jaxie]

there are atleast 40 anyway

https://www.dawn.com/news/746607

To add, :

"Honour" killings and death sentences are usually sanctioned through the panchayat system in Pakistani villages, but they have no legal standing.

http://www.indiatimes.com/news/world/19-year-old-pakistan-woman-who-alleged-rape-sentenced-to-death-by-panchayat-322671.html



Again I'm not saying that they're weren't Muslim but I am saying it doesn't state anything at all about religion. Seems like in this case it's about a father "protecting" his son over anything else

I think you have to look at how religion is involved in state and how a set of beliefs influence the proceedings. For example the idea that someone can be put to death or stoned for things like adultery. I'm not saying anything wildly far fetched here.

[Niamh.]

I think you have to look at how religion is involved in state and how a set of beliefs influence the proceedings. For example the idea that someone can be put to death or stoned for things like adultery.

It's a cultural thing though and not specific to Islam is the only point I was trying to make here. They have the same type of kangaroo courts in India where 80% of the population are Hindu. I believe alot of it is to do with poverty and lack of education. There's a link to similar awful "rulings" that happened in India


http://www.womensweb.in/2015/09/5-decisions-by-khap-panchayats-took-us-back-dark-ages/

[jaxie]

It's a cultural thing though and not specific to Islam is the only point I was trying to make here. They have the same type of kangaroo courts in India where 80% of the population are Hindu. I believe alot of it is to do with poverty and lack of education. There's a link to similar awful "rulings" that happened in India


http://www.womensweb.in/2015/09/5-decisions-by-khap-panchayats-took-us-back-dark-ages/

I disagree that it is cultural if you are discounting the influence of the religion of a religious state on it. I'm not really talking about India, we're talking specifically about a country that calls itself an Islamic state.

Ireland for example has been a catholic country and a non catholic would have struggled to achieve very much that wasn't in keeping with the faith, like having an abortion for instance. Or even speaking out against the faith, wasn't there some controversy over Stephen Fry recently?

[Niamh.]

I disagree that it is cultural if you are discounting the influence of the religion of a religious state on it.

Ireland for example has been a catholic country and a non catholic would have struggled to achieve very much that wasn't in keeping with the faith, like having an abortion for instance.

Culture is made up of many things, religion, morals, traditions. Clearly India and Pakistan have very similar cultures eventhough the main religions in the two countries are different.

Over 80% of Portuguese people are catholic and abortion is legal there so generalising laws on what religion the majority of a country is, is not always accurate

[jaxie]

Culture is made up of many things, religion, morals, traditions. Clearly India and Pakistan have very similar cultures eventhough the main religions in the two countries are different.

Over 80% of Portuguese people are catholic and abortion is legal there so generalising laws on what religion the majority of a country is, is not always accurate

Doesn't that depend on the teachings of the religion and whether the country allows religion into the laws of the state? Saying that 80% of Portuguese people are catholic isn't quite the same as saying Portugal is a catholic state/country.

[Livia]

Culture is made up of many things, religion, morals, traditions. Clearly India and Pakistan have very similar cultures eventhough the main religions in the two countries are different.

Over 80% of Portuguese people are catholic and abortion is legal there so generalising laws on what religion the majority of a country is, is not always accurate

India and Pakistan have entirely different cultures. If I had to be a woman in either, I would choose India, even thought their own record on women's rights is questionable. Anyhoo, killing a woman in Pakistan is nothing. If we made a thread every time one was murdered for being raped, or for "shaming" her family, or for some other excuse people seem to be coming up with, then we'd have no room for other threads. The simple fact is that Islam rules Pakistan, and parts of Islam are sick.

[Niamh.]

Doesn't that depend on the teachings of the religion and whether the country allows religion into the laws of the state?

hang on a second now, we're veering off track a little bit here. These court systems aren't even legally binding, the actual legal justice system in Pakistan was the one who stopped this honor killing from happening and is protecting the girl remember?

The culture of Panchayats is there out of tradition of "elders" in villages having power over people and especially in this specific case a father abusing that power to protect his son

[Niamh.]

India and Pakistan have entirely different cultures. If I had to be a woman in either, I would choose India, even thought their own record on women's rights is questionable. Anyhoo, killing a woman in Pakistan is nothing. If we made a thread every time one was murdered for being raped, or for "shaming" her family, or for some other excuse people seem to be coming up with, then we'd have no room for other threads. The simple fact is that Islam rules Pakistan, and parts of Islam are sick.

So why have the authorities arrested the man involved and given the girl protection?

[jaxie]

So why have the authorities arrested the man involved and given the girl protection?

Possibly because she had the support of her father.

[Niamh.]

India and Pakistan have entirely different cultures. If I had to be a woman in either, I would choose India, even thought their own record on women's rights is questionable. Anyhoo, killing a woman in Pakistan is nothing. If we made a thread every time one was murdered for being raped, or for "shaming" her family, or for some other excuse people seem to be coming up with, then we'd have no room for other threads. The simple fact is that Islam rules Pakistan, and parts of Islam are sick.

They're very similar

[jaxie]

hang on a second now, we're veering off track a little bit here. These court systems aren't even legally binding, the actual legal justice system in Pakistan was the one who stopped this honor killing from happening and is protecting the girl remember?

The culture of Panchayats is there out of tradition of "elders" in villages having power over people and especially in this specific case a father abusing that power to protect his son

Sharia law isn't binding in the UK and yet people can still go to sharia councils and settle disputes and even divorce.

I understand all the nitpicking but that's exactly what it is. Pakistan is an Islamic country. That means that Islam has an influence in all aspects of society, including councils.

[Niamh.]

Possibly because she had the support of her father.

but killing a girl is nothing there

[jaxie]

but killing a girl is nothing there

You're mistaking me for Livia I think. :nono: Please don't ascribe someone elses words to me.

[jaxie]

They're very similar

Not if you're a cow. :shrug:

[Niamh.]

Sharia law isn't binding in the UK and yet people can still go to them and settle disputes and even divorce.

I understand all the nitpicking but that's exactly what it is. Pakistan is an Islamic country. That means that Islam has an influence in all aspects of society, including councils.

My point is Pakistan is an Islamic country and India is a Hindu country and they both have these councils.....

[Niamh.]

Not if you're a cow. :shrug:

Well if I were a Pakistani cow I would certainly be looking for refugee status in India that's for sure :laugh:

[jaxie]

Well if I were a Pakistani cow I would certainly be looking for refugee status in India that's for sure :laugh:

Me too.

[jaxie]

My point is Pakistan is an Islamic country and India is a Hindu country and they both have these councils.....

That doesn't mean they are the same councils, run under the same rules and laws. Though both countries have terrible records with regard women, and I don't think religion in India is innocent either. People get beaten to death there for having meat in their freezer that may or may not be cow. If they are lucky enough to have a freezer.

[Niamh.]

That doesn't mean they are the same councils, run under the same rules and laws.

I just posted a link a few posts back of very similar sounding punishments by some Indian councils.

[jaxie]

I just posted a link a few posts back of very similar sounding punishments by some Indian councils.

England is a similar country to Ireland. And yet it's completely different.

[Niamh.]

England is a similar country to Ireland. And yet it's completely different.

Ok but I still showed you examples of punishments handed out by Indian councils that were very similar to this one in the OP :laugh:

[jaxie]

Ok but I still showed you examples of punishments handed out by Indian councils that were very similar to this one in the OP :laugh:

And I said that I don't think India's main religion is all that great either. Though if it had been India mentioned I probably wouldn't have assumed it was related to Hinduism because it's a secular state.

However Islam is the second largest religion in India. It's not far fetched that both countries might have adopted similar customs.

[Niamh.]

And I said that I don't think India's main religion is all that great either. Though if it had been India mentioned I probably wouldn't have assumed it was related to Hinduism because it's a secular state.

The law of the Islamic country is protecting the girl but you're blaming Islam for the council "convicting" her instead of the alleged rapists father........

[Niamh.]

anyway, i feel we're going round in circles now.

[jaxie]

The law of the Islamic country is protecting the girl but you're blaming Islam for the council "convicting" her instead of the alleged rapists father........

Is it really? Or is it supporting her fathers complaint? What will her future be? A payment made usually and the man will go free. Will she ever be able to live back in the same village without shame and retribution? How many other girls does this happen to where they aren't supported by their fathers?

[Niamh.]

Is it really? Or is it supporting her fathers complaint? What will her future be? A payment made usually and the man will go free. Will she ever be able to live back in the same village without shame and retribution? How many other girls does this happen to where they aren't supported by their fathers?

Why are you speaking to me like I agree with all this, I totally disagree with that kind of culture, all that I was pointing out was that it was a culture

[jaxie]

Why are you speaking to me like I agree with all this, I totally disagree with that kind of culture, all that I was pointing out was that it was a culture

And I'm trying to point out that culture and state are impossibly tangled with religion. Whether interpreted correctly or not, the religion is used as justification for systemic gender subordination.

[Niamh.]

And I'm trying to point out that culture and state are impossibly tangled with religion.

You have failed to do that imo because you just stated that if it happened in India (and it does alot going by examples I posted a link to) you would not blame religion but here you do eventhough that list of questions you just asked me (Is it really? Or is it supporting her fathers complaint? What will her future be? A payment made usually and the man will go free. Will she ever be able to live back in the same village without shame and retribution? How many other girls does this happen to where they aren't supported by their fathers?) could just as easily be applied to India

[Beso]

Actually I love willfully sleeping with people at gunpoint, and I completely recommend it for everybody. Not doing so would make me racist, obviously.

Nit sure what you are slavering about now but can you use the word allegedly now and again please.

[jaxie]

You have failed to do that imo because you just stated that if it happened in India (and it does alot going by examples I posted a link to) you would not blame religion but here you do eventhough that list of questions you just asked me (Is it really? Or is it supporting her fathers complaint? What will her future be? A payment made usually and the man will go free. Will she ever be able to live back in the same village without shame and retribution? How many other girls does this happen to where they aren't supported by their fathers?) could just as easily be applied to India

No I said "Though if it had been India mentioned I probably wouldn't have assumed it was related to Hinduism because it's a secular state."

[Denver]

Rape is a terrible problem in India especially gang rape probably the worst in the world.

India has gone downhill since Britian left

[Niamh.]

No I said "Though if it had been India mentioned I probably wouldn't have assumed it was related to Hinduism because it's a secular state."

So therefore it makes sense that these two countries just have similar cultures and attitudes towards women regardless of religion

[Niamh.]

Rape is a terrible problem in India especially gang rape probably the worst in the world.

India has gone downhill since Britian left

:rolleyes:

[jaxie]

So therefore it makes sense that these two countries just have similar cultures and attitudes towards women regardless of religion

I also said: However Islam is the second largest religion in India. It's not far fetched that both countries might have adopted similar customs.

[Denver]

Can i just say India has almost the same amount of Muslims as Pakistan

[Denver]

:rolleyes:

Well it as they have no real justice system

[Niamh.]

I also said: However Islam is the second largest religion in India. It's not far fetched that both countries might have adopted similar customs.

So it's Muslims fault in India too? Ok then, I'm done.

[jaxie]

So it's Muslims fault in India too? Ok then, I'm done.

You see what you want to see in the conversation. I can't help that. Don't confuse people with beliefs that are taught to people.

[Denver]

Any culture that makes 10 year old girls marry 40 year old men disgusts me and shouldnt be allowed to exist

[Brillopad]

Religion doesnt come in to it at all:umm2:

Edit: I just reread the OP, I don't think Brillo read the article

I read it. I don't care if it was Islam, Hindu or whatever primitive religion it was - it is a religion that hates and abuses women. And they have clearly been getting away with it for centuries.

She was a victim of rape but she will be the one who will be punished. She may escape being stoned now but her life will never be the same if she stays there and she probably never be safe.

That is down to man-made religion and man-made rules designed to give men the upper hand. A primitive controlling and abusive religion is what it is no matter what name it hides behind and some are clearly a lot worse than others.

[Withano]

and some are clearly a lot worse than others.

I think this is the important message to take from the story. To give you credit, you didnt mention a specific religion.. others did, there was a lot of religion bashing in this thread despite both; the protagonists and the antagonists likely sharing a faith. It didnt make sense. Some are worse than others, agreed, others are not bad at all.

[Toy Soldier]

I think this is the important message to take from the story. To give you credit, you didnt mention a specific religion.. others did, there was a lot of religion bashing in this thread despite both; the protagonists and the antagonists likely sharing a faith. It didnt make sense. Some are worse than others, agreed, others are not bad at all.

I'm 90% sure that Brillo meant that some religions "are clearly worse than others", rather than some members of each religion being worse than others.

I might be wrong.

But it would be more in step with Brillo's other posts.

[Withano]

I'm 90% sure that Brillo meant that some religions "are clearly worse than others", rather than some members of each religion being worse than others.

I might be wrong.

But it would be more in step with Brillo's other posts.

Oh. Maybe. That's a shame. I thought I witnessed personal growth for a second there.

[Tozzie]

Why would you watch something like that? :umm2:

why brush it under the carpet and pretend it doesnt happen, the more we know about stuff like this that goes on the more we are nearer a time where this kind of thing is is put to an end. Of course it's horrible but it's better to be educated in what goes on instead of being ignorant to it, otherwise how can we do anything about it

[Marsh.]

why brush it under the carpet and pretend it doesnt happen, the more we know about stuff like this that goes on the more we are nearer a time where this kind of thing is is put to an end. Of course it's horrible but it's better to be educated in what goes on instead of being ignorant to it, otherwise how can we do anything about it
What?

Who said brush it under the carpet?

I don't need to watch graphic videos of innocent people being slaughtered in war zones to know it's happening.

I simply asked how people can put themselves through watching something like that. The people I asked answered me courteously and that's the end of it.

[Tozzie]

What?

Who said brush it under the carpet?

I don't need to watch graphic videos of innocent people being slaughtered in war zones to know it's happening.

I simply asked how people can put themselves through watching something like that. The people I asked answered me courteously and that's the end of it.

Did I say YOU brushed it under the carpet? Nope, I wasn't being rude, I asked you a question, calm down lol

[storybrooke]

This is terrible to read however not all too uncommon in society today