What's better? [A thread on political party loyalty]

[Wizard.]

A party that promises loads of stuff but rarely delivers on it (Labour)

Or

A party that doesn't promise a lot but doesn't let you down (Conservative)

I'm honestly interested because I find things like party loyalty weird for example people who have been Labour all their life despite the fact every Labour government promises the moon and can't even deliver a bit of dust or Tories who vote for a stronger economy but which does not necessarily effect their day-day life.

[RichardG]

c) a party whose manifesto you believe in

no matter which party gets elected you will still be screwed over one way or another, so just vote for what you think is right

[smudgie]

I have voted both sides, depends who is the leader and if they come across as worth my vote.
I don't really think it depends on what you have or not, so can't see people just voting for personal gain, either way.

[DemolitionRed]

A party that promises loads of stuff but never delivers on it (Labour)

Or

A party that doesn't promise a lot so doesn't let you down (Conservative)

I'm honestly interested because I find things like party loyalty weird for example people who have been Labour all their life despite the fact every Labour government promises the moon and can't even deliver a bit of dust or Tories who vote for a stronger economy but which does not necessarily effect their day-day life.

What makes you think that the Labour party can't deliver on their promise ?

My party loyalty comes from having a fairly broad understanding of how politics work. I only become a party loyalist when I've looked at something from all angles and can clearly see its 1. good for the majority and 2. possible. If you ask around on here, I was a Labour supporter this time last year and then moved away from Labour. I only came back recently. I'm picky about my politics and the only thing that can sway me is research and that research tends to happen when I'm fence sitting.

Whoever told you that Labour always promises the moon but can't deliver? that's a very anti-Labour approach and not one I'd be inclined to take a lot of notice of without some very thorough research of your own.

Would you mind rephrasing that bolded last sentence as I'm not sure what you mean?.

[Wizard.]

What makes you think that the Labour party can't deliver on their promise ?

My party loyalty comes from having a fairly broad understanding of how politics work. I only become a party loyalist when I've looked at something from all angles and can clearly see its 1. good for the majority and 2. possible. If you ask around on here, I was a Labour supporter this time last year and then moved away from Labour. I only came back recently. I'm picky about my politics and the only thing that can sway me is research and that research tends to happen when I'm fence sitting.

Whoever told you that Labour always promises the moon but can't deliver? that's a very anti-Labour approach and not one I'd be inclined to take a lot of notice of without some very thorough research of your own.

Would you mind rephrasing that bolded last sentence as I'm not sure what you mean?.

The whole premise is with the two party system it's always the same old same old. My last point was that the Tories are more a party that take care of the economy and don't get involved with people's lives as much as Labour. Some can say that's a negative or a positive.

[Withano]

Is that the kind of leading question you were asked before you decided Conservatives were best? Cos like, you're making it appear that way, and that's tragic

[DemolitionRed]

The whole premise is with the two party system it's always the same old same old. My last point was that the Tories are more a party that take care of the economy and don't get involved with people's lives as much as Labour. Some can say that's a negative or a positive.

I thought that's what you were trying to say but I couldn't believe you really thought that. Do people really believe the Cons are taking care of the economy?:conf: How? Our economy is getting more and more broken by the day. We are in a depression. Nothing is being spent and if you don't spend, you can't take care of or grow an economy.

[Wizard.]

Is that the kind of leading question you were asked before you decided Conservatives were best? Cos like, you're making it appear that way, and that's tragic

I thought that's what you were trying to say but I couldn't believe you really thought that. Do people really believe the Cons are taking care of the economy?:conf: How? Our economy is getting more and more broken by the day. We are in a depression. Nothing is being spent and if you don't spend, you can't take care of or grow an economy.

Oh I didn't know Labour supporters were so defensive and touchy, it's tragic

[Withano]

Hey guys whats better, serious question

more money you can dream of, you gotta like fill out a load of forms and thats soooo borrrring

OR CRIPPLING DEBT!!!! Its really EASY. Someone just comes and mugs you :joker::joker: also you die tomorrow :joker::dance:

Thats literally what you sound like

[joeysteele]

What's best is who treats the weakest,poorest and sick and disabled best.
Making sure those groups are protected to the full.
I always formed my belief of right in society,to judge those aspiring to public office,how they would and do treat those groups.
Reading through politics and govts over the post war period,both Labour and Conservative largely did protect such groups.

Even Margaret Thatchers govt did not set out to persecute the weakest,sick and disabled as the Coalition govt and this govt have done so shockingly.

I was Conservative until 2009, I was unsure as to Cameron's NHS dedication so voted Lib Dem in 2010,mainly on the tuition fees issue.

Now I am Labour, because again that is for how I'd see them treat the weakest,sick and disabled after the near horrific stressful sledgehammer wielded by the Conservatives,towards those citizens.

Party loyalty comes when a party's consistent as to your hopes and you believe they will deliver.
I have little party loyalty but will fight for what I believe is right, so in elections under this vastly outdated electoral system we have, really only one of 2 Parties can win or lead enough to take power.
Labour or Conservative.

No way will this PM and this Conservative Party at present protect the weakest, poorest,sick and disabled.
So of the 2 main Parties,I have only one I could ever or would trust as to that.

All govts may not be able to deliver all they promise but they should and can be compassionate.
Especially to its weakest in society.
Ensuring such groups are built up not brought down.

I was told a saying by my Grandmother,which I always try to hold onto in life,which forms too my political thinking and allegiances.

'the only time you should look down on people is when you are helping them up'.

[Wizard.]

Hey guys whats better, serious question

more money you can dream of, you gotta like fill out a load of forms and thats soooo borrrring

OR CRIPPLING DEBT!!!! Its really EASY. Someone just comes and mugs you :joker::joker: also you die tomorrow :joker::dance:

Thats literally what you sound like

I'm actually thinking of joining SDP I actually their policies just wish they didn't have "social" in their name.

[Withano]

I'm actually thinking of joining SDP I actually their policies just wish they didn't have "social" in their name.

Thats cool, yo do you. Leading questions like this in the meantime though just make you look ridiculous

[Wizard.]

Thats cool, yo do you. Leading questions like this in the meantime though just make you look ridiculous

It's not a leading question you're literally looking too much into it.

[Kazanne]

The latter for me although there are things I don't agree with with Conservatives,but I do think they are far better at just getting on with things without the constant waffle of throwing money at people who stamp their feet when they cannot get all the things they want,Corbyns popularity went up as soon as he said he would be throwing money into this and into that, and Mays went down (we are led to believe) because she did not promise all those things,as for the Conservatives not caring about the sick and disabled,I saw none of that when we had a sick and disabled man to look after,he was helped in anyway possible,we had to wait for a few aids for him ,but he got them and excellent care,mom got a pittance for looking after him,but not everything is about money and how much we can get all the time.I think some of the remarks about her says more about the people who have said it that it does about her,afterall Corbyn is no trendy,adonis is he, and why should it even matter? from what I have seen on here and social media the opposition seem very hostile and condescending.better the devil you know for me I think.

[Withano]

It's not a leading question you're literally looking too much into it.

"Hi guys whats better someone that always lets you down, or someone that never lets you down"

You literally worded a very open question in a way that makes it impossible to give any answer but the one you wanted. Thats a leading question.

You're an intelligent guy, and you're better than this.

[Wizard.]

"Hi guys whats better someone that always lets you down, or someone that never lets you down"

You literally worded a very open question in a way that makes it impossible to give any answer but the one you wanted. Thats a leading question.

You're an intelligent guy, and you're better than this.

I literally said the Conservatives don't offer people much - I thought that was a clear negative?

[Kazanne]

I literally said the Conservatives don't offer people much - I thought that was a clear negative?

It was perfectly clear what you meant Riley :wavey:

[Kizzy]

Oh yeah the conservatives offered me nothing... and that's what I got nothing,
no hope,
no faith in my country,
no security,
no stability,
no savings

Gee thanks :/

[Withano]

I literally said the Conservatives don't offer people much - I thought that was a clear negative?

I wouldn't be interested in either of those parties, I don't consider myself loyal to any though, leaders and policies change.

[joeysteele]

The latter for me although there are things I don't agree with with Conservatives,but I do think they are far better at just getting on with things without the constant waffle of throwing money at people who stamp their feet when they cannot get all the things they want,Corbyns popularity went up as soon as he said he would be throwing money into this and into that, and Mays went down (we are led to believe) because she did not promise all those things,as for the Conservatives not caring about the sick and disabled,I saw none of that when we had a sick and disabled man to look after,he was helped in anyway possible,we had to wait for a few aids for him ,but he got them and excellent care,mom got a pittance for looking after him,but not everything is about money and how much we can get all the time.I think some of the remarks about her says more about the people who have said it that it does about her,afterall Corbyn is no trendy,adonis is he, and why should it even matter? from what I have seen on here and social media the opposition seem very hostile and condescending.better the devil you know for me I think.

How nice,you haven't seen sick and disabled treated badly so it mustn't happen to you.
Well I have been to appeals at Courts helping people get back entitlements wrongly taken off them by this govts policies as to claiming same.

Two thirds of appeals are won in full,it costs the taxpayers loads.
The courts have a backlog of cases of appeals waiting to be heard,that's how many there are.

You haven't seen that so it mustn't be,unbelievable.
I have seen it and it is and should be a National disgrace.

[Kazanne]

How nice,you haven't seen sick and disabled treated badly so it mustn't happen to you.
Well I have been to appeals at Courts helping people get back entitlements wrongly taken off them by this govts policies as to claiming same.

Two thirds of appeals are won in full,it costs the taxpayers loads.
The courts have a backlog of cases of appeals waiting to be heard,that's how many there are.

You haven't seen that so it mustn't be,unbelievable.
I have seen it and it is and should be a National disgrace.

I can only go by my own experiences Joey,I'm sorry you've experienced those things,I was answering the question as honestly as I could , I am sure there are good and bad stories all over, that happens in all walks of life.

[reece(:]

Legend labour of course!

[joeysteele]

I can only go by my own experiences Joey,I'm sorry you've experienced those things,I was answering the question as honestly as I could , I am sure there are good and bad stories all over, that happens in all walks of life.

I'm not sorry I came across such disgraceful injustices at all.
I'm glad I got out my bubble and came across them and am in a profession to help such people.

It's not a question of good and bad,it's wrong to remove entitlements from people who.need them.
This govt is forever moving the goalposts as to scoring for eligibility.

Never mind,your govt will ensure more and more suffer in the future with their rotten ongoing plans to come.
Of course you won't see that as it never seems to happen where you are it seems.
So that's alright then.

[Brillopad]

I'm not sorry I came across such disgraceful injustices at all.
I'm glad I got out my bubble and came across them and am in a profession to help such people.

It's not a question of good and bad,it's wrong to remove entitlements from people who.need them.
This govt is forever moving the goalposts as to scoring for eligibility.

Never mind,your govt will ensure more and more suffer in the future with their rotten ongoing plans to come.
Of course you won't see that as it never seems to happen where you are it seems.
So that's alright then.


Oh get over it you don't have the monopoly on morals, what is/isn't injustice and what and who are good or evil. You have what the rest of us have - opinion. Nothing more. :nono:

[DemolitionRed]

Oh I didn't know Labour supporters were so defensive and touchy, it's tragic

Not touchy, just frustrated at the continual naive statements.

[Marsh.]

doesn't let you down (Conservative)


Eh?

Speak for yourself.

[Wizard.]

Eh?

Speak for yourself.

Well how can something that you don't believe can deliver let you down when it doesn't? That's essentially the argument against Labour who promise a lot and undoubtedly give people hope only to not deliver on those promises.

[Brillopad]

The latter for me although there are things I don't agree with with Conservatives,but I do think they are far better at just getting on with things without the constant waffle of throwing money at people who stamp their feet when they cannot get all the things they want,Corbyns popularity went up as soon as he said he would be throwing money into this and into that, and Mays went down (we are led to believe) because she did not promise all those things,as for the Conservatives not caring about the sick and disabled,I saw none of that when we had a sick and disabled man to look after,he was helped in anyway possible,we had to wait for a few aids for him ,but he got them and excellent care,mom got a pittance for looking after him,but not everything is about money and how much we can get all the time.I think some of the remarks about her says more about the people who have said it that it does about her,afterall Corbyn is no trendy,adonis is he, and why should it even matter? from what I have seen on here and social media the opposition seem very hostile and condescending.better the devil you know for me I think.

Better the devil you know - I couldn't agree more.

Youngsters are often naive about politics as was demonstrated by the failure of so many to even bother to vote in the referendum. If someone is promising them freebies such as no uni fees they blindly jump on board with little thought given to the bigger picture. Young voters are being used and manipulated by older Labour voters with 'their call to arms'. It's all very distasteful if you ask me. A desperate act by desperate people.

They naively believe that politicians do what they promise and have no experiece of how Common it is for politicians on all sides to makes rash promises at election time which often fail to come to fruition.

Any politician can make promises - few can deliver and make them pay. They will have to find that out the hard way.

[Kizzy]

What it the conservatives 'bigger picture'? Are we not being blindly led into brexit.. and conservative uncosted mandates?

It's double standards like this that I find the most distasteful.

'They' are savvy enough to question what is of benefit to society as a whole, not just presume you are being duped and follow like a lab rat to the stimulus of pain offered by the scientist because she gives you crumbs.

[joeysteele]

What it the conservatives 'bigger picture'? Are we not being blindly led into brexit.. and conservative uncosted mandates?

It's double standards like this that I find the most distasteful.

'They' are savvy enough to question what is of benefit to society as a whole, not just presume you are being duped and follow like a lab rat to the stimulus of pain offered by the scientist because she gives you crumbs.


Absolutely right.

[Greg!]

I'm actually thinking of joining SDP I actually their policies just wish they didn't have "social" in their name.

Do they still exist?

[Wizard.]

Do they still exist?

Yeah I mean the original one joined the Liberals to create the Liberal Democrats but there's a separate one that promises free wifi on all trains :joker:

[Greg!]

The last labour government delivered a lot of what they promised. Minimum wage, devolution, workers' rights, better LGBT rights etc.

[Greg!]

Yeah I mean the original one joined the Liberals to create the Liberal Democrats but there's a separate one that promises free wifi on all trains :joker:

Hmm legends

[Kazanne]

The last labour government delivered a lot of what they promised. Minimum wage, devolution, workers' rights, better LGBT rights etc.

So why weren't they voted back in?

[joeysteele]

The last labour government delivered a lot of what they promised. Minimum wage, devolution, workers' rights, better LGBT rights etc.

They did indeed and what Party was dead against the minimum wage all through, the Cons.

However Labour does one to a few things unsuccessfully and voters punish them.

This govt has failed policies and promises for the last 7 years but gets re elected and gets its failures glossed over.
Unbelievable

[Greg!]

So why weren't they voted back in?

Idk!