Isis kills 160 to stop them leaving mosul

[Beso]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/06/isil-kills-163-people-mosul-day-170606101720658.html&ved=0ahUKEwi0xp3giavUAhXKIcAKHbLdBmMQFggqMAQ&usg=AFQjCNHN6k8byozc2e4TY1GKSSaS0J3RVA



Best not mess with thier human rights.:nono:

[Cherie]

Those poor people fleeing for their lives, how can we help people in this situation its heartbreaking

[Vanessa]

:sad: I just don't know how they can be helped. It's heartbreaking.

[Brillopad]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/06/isil-kills-163-people-mosul-day-170606101720658.html&ved=0ahUKEwi0xp3giavUAhXKIcAKHbLdBmMQFggqMAQ&usg=AFQjCNHN6k8byozc2e4TY1GKSSaS0J3RVA



Best not mess with thier human rights.:nono:

Trouble with those that bleat on about human rights all the time is they don't seem to be able to differentiate between the ones that matter and the ones that don't. PC gets in the way and clouds their judgement as usual. All or nothing in their books, but real life says differently as can be seen here.

[Kazanne]

Imagine having to live like that,terrible the things they do,but the scumbags have human rights so we must sit and chat to them !!!!

[Niamh.]

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=/amp/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/2017/06/isil-kills-163-people-mosul-day-170606101720658.html&ved=0ahUKEwi0xp3giavUAhXKIcAKHbLdBmMQFggqMAQ&usg=AFQjCNHN6k8byozc2e4TY1GKSSaS0J3RVA



Best not mess with thier human rights.:nono:

What?

RIP to all those poor people

[Niamh.]

Imagine having to live like that,terrible the things they do,but the scumbags have human rights so we must sit and chat to them !!!!

Well, this whole taking away peoples human rights is only going to end up with innocent people getting punished and probably making more people wanting to join ISIS.

If you take the IRA as an example, breaching Irish peoples human rights resulted in the Birmingham 6 and the Guilford 4 spending over 20 years in person. Internment camps used for the IRA or suspected IRA members resulted in more of an anti British sentiment amongst Irish people who weren't in the IRA which resulted in more innocent Irish people feeling prosecuted for doing nothing which resulted in more people becoming easier pickings for recruitment.

What stopped the IRA was talking......

[Northern Monkey]

I think they are getting desperate now because we're defeating them in Iraq.Their land is diminishing

[Kazanne]

Well, this whole taking away peoples human rights is only going to end up with innocent people getting punished and probably making more people wanting to join ISIS.

If you take the IRA as an example, breaching Irish peoples human rights resulted in the Birmingham 6 and the Guilford 4 spending over 20 years in person. Internment camps used for the IRA or suspected IRA members resulted in more of an anti British sentiment amongst Irish people who weren't in the IRA which resulted in more innocent Irish people feeling prosecuted for doing nothing which resulted in more people becoming easier pickings for recruitment.

What stopped the IRA was talking......

Do you think they would sit and talk Niamh? TM said herself she will not be taking away all human rights but will be able to alter them where terrorists are concerned,like being able to have them deported etc.

[Niamh.]

Do you think they would sit and talk Niamh? TM said herself she will not be taking away all human rights but will be able to alter them where terrorists are concerned,like being able to have them deported etc.

It's not that anyone wants to protect ISIS terrorists which seems to be the thing thrown at people who are against human rights breaches it's just that breaching human rights leaves a huge opening for innocent peoples human rights to be breached with no protection from anyone and that's dangerous imo. And you can say Oh but ISIS are dangerous but that's ok? and the answer is of course it's not but the answer is not to become animals like them because we are not terrorists and we shouldn't be ok with innocent people being collateral damage like they are.

[Anaesthesia]

Well, this whole taking away peoples human rights is only going to end up with innocent people getting punished and probably making more people wanting to join ISIS.

If you take the IRA as an example, breaching Irish peoples human rights resulted in the Birmingham 6 and the Guilford 4 spending over 20 years in person. Internment camps used for the IRA or suspected IRA members resulted in more of an anti British sentiment amongst Irish people who weren't in the IRA which resulted in more innocent Irish people feeling prosecuted for doing nothing which resulted in more people becoming easier pickings for recruitment.

What stopped the IRA was talking......

:clap1:

Well said Niamh, and I think many tend to forget we have faced terrorism here before without feeling the need to strip everyone of their rights and protections.

[Vicky.]

Trouble with those that bleat on about human rights all the time is they don't seem to be able to differentiate between the ones that matter and the ones that don't. PC gets in the way and clouds their judgement as usual. All or nothing in their books, but real life says differently as can be seen here.

Scrapping human rights laws will apply to everyone, not just 'the bad ones' unfortunately. A balance is needed. I do agree we should be able to deport without all the hooha...but that wouldn't have helped these poor people :/

[Vicky.]

Do you think they would sit and talk Niamh? TM said herself she will not be taking away all human rights but will be able to alter them where terrorists are concerned,like being able to have them deported etc.

TM cannot make laws that only affect some people. They have to apply to all. So if she has said this, its another outright lie.

I agree with Niamh, though do not think talking would help with the isis situation. The IRA had a clear aim that was able to be resolved with dialogue. What ISIS want is all westerners dead. Theres no room for compromise to help the situation. All thats going to help is having foot soldiers there to kill the bastards. Its kill or be killed in this case unfortunately. But bombing and such isn't working as we are killing innocent people too. In many ways we are no better than ISIS as our immediate response is 'bomb the **** out of their countries'

[Withano]

Obviously the Human Rights 1998 UK legislation act only applies to those from the UK or we wouldnt have killed in unjust war since that time. What an odd and insensitive way to make a point... not to mention irrelevant and incorrect.

[Niamh.]

TM cannot make laws that only affect some people. They have to apply to all. So if she has said this, its another outright lie.

I agree with Niamh, though do not think talking would help with the isis situation. The IRA had a clear aim that was able to be resolved with dialogue. What ISIS want is all westerners dead. Theres no room for compromise to help the situation. All thats going to help is having foot soldiers there to kill the bastards. Its kill or be killed in this case unfortunately. But bombing and such isn't working as we are killing innocent people too. In many ways we are no better than ISIS as our immediate response is 'bomb the **** out of their countries'

Yes obviously the two are not similar in that respect but what is similar is if you target all Irish people all you will do is make those people think "hey maybe the IRA are right, we shouldn't be treated like this when our only crime is being Irish" etc that can easily be applied to Muslims in this scenario if they're being told "we're breaching your human rights because you're Muslim so might be a terrorist but hey if you aren't than you should be happy to be water boarded/deported/imprisoned"

[Vicky.]

Yes obviously the two are not similar in that respect but what is similar is if you target all Irish people all you will do is make those people think "hey maybe the IRA are right, we shouldn't be treated like this when our only crime is being Irish" etc that can easily be applied to Muslims in this scenario if they're being told "we're breaching your human rights because you're Muslim so might be a terrorist but hey if you aren't than you should be happy to be water boarded/deported/imprisoned"

Yes exactly.

This is why its really important after each of these events that we remind people not to blame the average Muslim. Yet when people say this they are accused of terrorist sympathizing. Which to me, means those accusing actually do just blame all Muslims for it.

[andybigbro]

So disgusting :bored: :sad:

[Vicky.]

Obviously the Human Rights 1998 UK legislation act only applies to those from the UK or we wouldnt have killed in unjust war since that time. What an odd and insensitive way to make a point... not to mention irrelevant and incorrect.

Also yes, this.

[Firewire]

Obviously the Human Rights 1998 UK legislation act only applies to those from the UK or we wouldnt have killed in unjust war since that time. What an odd and insensitive way to make a point... not to mention irrelevant and incorrect.

:clap1:

[Niamh.]

Yes exactly.

This is why its really important after each of these events that we remind people not to blame the average Muslim. Yet when people say this they are accused of terrorist sympathizing. Which to me, means those accusing actually do just blame all Muslims for it.

Yup nail on the head right there. Which is crazy considering that most of ISIS victims are Muslims.

[bots]

Scrapping human rights laws will apply to everyone, not just 'the bad ones' unfortunately. A balance is needed. I do agree we should be able to deport without all the hooha...but that wouldn't have helped these poor people :/

Actually, it may have if they had been able to take action against that guy that appeared on that C4 documentary.

I agree that we should be incredibly careful on how we handle human rights. Tony Blair took action with the control orders after 7/7 ... but, those were challenged and revoked. So the safeguards are still in place via UK law to protect us

If nothing else, if the debate is opened up as to how we can tackle this, it can only be a good thing surely.

[Tom4784]

Turning our country into 1984 will not prevent anything like this happening in the Middle East, it honestly enrages me how people can be so gullible to throw away their own ****ing rights the second someone mentions terrorism. It's no small wonder why my faith in the public is non-existent when they are so willing to sabotage themselves for a false sense of security.

This is an attrocity but it has no bearing on our own rights. Giving up Human rights out of fear is pretty much allowing terrorists to win.

[Tom4784]

Actually, it may have if they had been able to take action against that guy that appeared on that C4 documentary.

I agree that we should be incredibly careful on how we handle human rights. Tony Blair took action with the control orders after 7/7 ... but, those were challenged and revoked. So the safeguards are still in place via UK law to protect us

If nothing else, if the debate is opened up as to how we can tackle this, it can only be a good thing surely.

That's not an issue of Human Rights though, it's a matter of inaction.

Mosques and their patrons are reporting extremism but I believe it's a lack of funding that is preventing action being taken. When it comes to Terrorism, this government is all lip service when it comes to prevention, they'd much rather erode our rights to their own advantage.

[jaxie]

How terrible for the people of Mosul. It's so horrible that no one seems to able to help or stop these atrocities.

[Beso]

:clap1:

Well said Niamh, and I think many tend to forget we have faced terrorism here before without feeling the need to strip everyone of their rights and protections.
But didnt niamh just say the ira did suffer some human rights interference?

[Niamh.]

But didnt niamh just say the ira did suffer some human rights interference?

Not just the IRA which is the point I was making but who cares if innocent Irish people were punished, eh?

[Beso]

Scrapping human rights laws will apply to everyone, not just 'the bad ones' unfortunately. A balance is needed. I do agree we should be able to deport without all the hooha...but that wouldn't have helped these poor people :/

Oh vicky that is so untrue.

This **** that appeared on the jihadi next door programme, if things had been in place then he would have either been locked up or deported and every single person who died on saturday night and since would all still be alive and enjoying life.

[Anaesthesia]

But didnt niamh just say the ira did suffer some human rights interference?

Yes she did. And ordinary Irish people had to suffer the suspicion and hatred and be lumped in with them...causing rightful injustice and feelings of marginalisation which in turn only lead to bitterness, hatred, and an increased likelihood of radicalisation.

[Beso]

Not just the IRA which is the point I was making but who cares if innocent Irish people were punished, eh?

Well that was a massive leap from reading my post that corrected an innacuracy to accusations of people not caring about innocent irish citizens.


Course people and me care about innocent lives being lost...what the **** do you think all the uproar about saturday is about?

[Niamh.]

Well that was a massive leap from reading my post that corrected an innacuracy to accusations of people not caring about innocent irish citizens.


Course people and me care about innocent lives being lost...what the **** do you think all the uproar about saturday is about?

I didn't say innocent lives being lost, i said innocent people being persecuted, i think you read my post wrong now

[Beso]

I didn't say innocent lives being lost, i said innocent people being persecuted, i think you read my post wrong now

True.

[Vicky.]

Yup nail on the head right there. Which is crazy considering that most of ISIS victims are Muslims.

Just had a really weird thing happen on the bus which reminded me of how loud I must talk. Was on a bit of a rant to Gavin (why I rant at him about stuff like this I don't know though...given he agrees with me on most issues) about how our media ignore news elsewhere when it suits them...how people keep saying 'Muslims should tell ISIS to stop' and ridiculous things like that. Basically, I told him about the 160 Muslims killed by ISIS yesterday and how thousands are killed each month by ISIS so noone hates ISIS more than Muslim people. Yet people seem to think all Muslims should bear blame for ISIS. And 2 people on the bus randomly joined the conversation lol. Turned out they agreed with me and they are sick to death of having to argue this point against ignorant people who refuse to look further than the Sun headlines for their news.

I then went quiet for a bit, embarrassed that I had been talking loud enough for the whole bus to hear (mind, there were only 5 people on the bus except us, luckily) then apparently forgot about this and started going on about how we are up Trumps arse and how we have to stay that way until we know how Brexit turns out trade deal wise...and some older guy turned round and said 'well theres enough room up Trumps arse for us all to fit' and everyone started sniggering...then I got off the bus.

Nice story :D

[Niamh.]

Just had a really weird thing happen on the bus which reminded me of how loud I must talk. Was on a bit of a rant to Gavin (why I rant at him about stuff like this I don't know though...given he agrees with me on most issues) about how our media ignore news elsewhere when it suits them...how people keep saying 'Muslims should tell ISIS to stop' and ridiculous things like that. Basically, I told him about the 160 Muslims killed by ISIS yesterday and how thousands are killed each month by ISIS so noone hates ISIS more than Muslim people. Yet people seem to think all Muslims should bear blame for ISIS. And 2 people on the bus randomly joined the conversation lol. Turned out they agreed with me and they are sick to death of having to argue this point against ignorant people who refuse to look further than the Sun headlines for their news.

I then went quiet for a bit, embarrassed that I had been talking loud enough for the whole bus to hear (mind, there were only 5 people on the bus except us, luckily) then apparently forgot about this and started going on about how we are up Trumps arse and how we have to stay that way until we know how Brexit turns out trade deal wise...and some older guy turned round and said 'well theres enough room up Trumps arse for us all to fit' and everyone started sniggering...then I got off the bus.

Nice story :D

That's Hilarious :laugh2:

Oh was just on FB there and they had a live stream of a group of 100 Muslim leaders paying tribute at the London bridge memorial area where the flowers are and that, and my god Vicky, the vast majority of comments popping up were just awful. "too late now" "Why aren't their more of you" "Have you got a suicide vest on" etc etc etc ...................can't do right for doing wrong

[Vicky.]

That's Hilarious :laugh2:

Oh was just on FB there and they had a live stream of a group of 100 Muslim leaders paying tribute at the London bridge memorial area where the flowers are and that, and my god Vicky, the vast majority of comments popping up were just awful. "too late now" "Why aren't their more of you" "Have you got a suicide vest on" etc etc etc ...................can't do right for doing wrong

Yup have seen stuff like that before. Its awful how many think that way. really really awful and it genuinely upsets me. As if normal everday Muslims could do anything at all to stop these attacks.

When people I know start saying stuff about these attacks and how Muslims 'should be standing up against ISIS' and stuff..I always make a point of asking what the **** they should do in order to please people. And noone ever has an answer. I always point out how ISIS have killed a HELL of a lot more Muslim people than westerners..people seem to be shocked when they hear that and it does tend to shut them up and make them think.

I mean, when there was the attack on the Tunisian beach and the locals all stood around the Brits...was that reported much? Was it ****. The attack was reported on, but the fact that these 'horrible Muslims' protected 'us' was left out. And when it wasn't left out...the comments on the articles were all along the lines of 'rargh, they probably were actually part of the attack, this is just to make themselves look good, was all fake' and stuff. When people talk of that attack, the fact that normal Muslims were the ****ing heroes in it never seems to get a mention.

[Niamh.]

Yup have seen stuff like that before. Its awful how many think that way. really really awful and it genuinely upsets me. As if normal everday Muslims could do anything at all to stop these attacks.

When people I know start saying stuff about these attacks and how Muslims 'should be standing up against ISIS' and stuff..I always make a point of asking what the **** they should do in order to please people. And noone ever has an answer. I always point out how ISIS have killed a HELL of a lot more Muslim people than westerners..people seem to be shocked when they hear that and it does tend to shut them up and make them think.

I mean, when there was the attack on the Tunisian beach and the locals all stood around the Brits...was that reported much? Was it ****. The attack was reported on, but the fact that these 'horrible Muslims' protected 'us' was left out. And when it wasn't left out...the comments on the articles were all along the lines of 'rargh, they probably were actually part of the attack, this is just to make themselves look good, was all fake' and stuff. When people talk of that attack, the fact that normal Muslims were the ****ing heroes in it never seems to get a mention.

yep and if you point any of that stuff out you don't care about the victims blah blah blah

Also to add, what "ordinary muslims" can do according to alot of people is stop hiding terrorists amongst them but we've already heard stories of muslims having reported people who tried to recruit them and nothing was done about it

[Vicky.]

Oh vicky that is so untrue.

This **** that appeared on the jihadi next door programme, if things had been in place then he would have either been locked up or deported and every single person who died on saturday night and since would all still be alive and enjoying life.

Every single person who died on Saturday would have been alive? There were 2 other people carrying out the attack?

I get what you are saying but I think its a very dangerous route to be going down where, for example someone can be locked up on suspicion of doing something, when they may not have even been doing that if that makes sense? This will affect us all...not just the bad people.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/07/keir-starmer-uk-human-rights-law-does-not-prevent-capture-of-terrorists

Starmer, a former director of public prosecutions who oversaw dozens of terror cases, said Theresa May was misguided to focus on human rights law rather than policing cuts.

“There is no incompatibility between protecting human rights and taking effective action against terrorists,” he told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme.

“If we start throwing away our adherence to human rights in response to what has happened in the last three months, we are throwing away the values at the heart of the democracy, everything that we say we believe in.”

Starmer said he had never found human rights law a barrier to successful prosecutions of terrorists or those preparing acts of terrorism. “I know because I did it for five years,” he said. “We did not run into the Human Rights Act as a problem preventing successful prosecutions. We put a lot of people away for a very long time.”

This whole human rights thing is simply to take the heat off May about the cuts to security services. Nothing more. Removing human rights would not have lead to the Jihadi guy off the c4 program being jailed or deported. I do however think that MI5 were wrong in their assessment of how dangerous this guy was and as such stopped focusing on him.

In short, I disagree that someone should ever be locked up or deported simply because we think they are planning something. But if there is enough evidence they actually are then of course we should be able to lock them up (preferably in solitary, so they can not radicalize other people in prison) but we can do this already, and do do this already. Intelligence agencies get it wrong sometimes though.

[bots]

My understanding is that it would involve opting out of some human rights laws that we currently subscribe to from europe, it doesn't affect British laws, they have to go through and be approved by parliament as they have always done.

We have kicked back in the past at laws around prisoners voting rights for example.

It's really quite alarmist to say that our liberty is in jeopardy. We have many checks and balances in the system.

[smudgie]

Those poor people.:bawling:
Makes you think how lucky we are.
We can debate politics and the world from all different angles and not worry about the same fate.

[Niamh.]

Those poor people.:bawling:
Makes you think how lucky we are.
We can debate politics and the world from all different angles and not worry about the same fate.

absolutely

[Vicky.]

Just heard on the news theres apparently been a 5x rise in Islamophobic hate crime after the recent attacks.

No surprise, but upsetting.

[Vicky.]

My understanding is that it would involve opting out of some human rights laws that we currently subscribe to from europe, it doesn't affect British laws, they have to go through and be approved by parliament as they have always done.

We have kicked back in the past at laws around prisoners voting rights for example.

It's really quite alarmist to say that our liberty is in jeopardy. We have many checks and balances in the system.

I think it depends on quite what she is planning on doing. And given she won't say anything besides that she is planning on scrapping human rights laws to make it easier to deport terrorists and such...I think its quite right that many are very concerned about what would happen to 'normal' people caught up in it all.

I mean, it sounds like people are wanting the power to deport/lock up anyone who is simply suspected of stuff. No actual proof needed or anything. Thats an extremely dangerous way of thinking. I get that people are scared, but that really is not the answer. There should always need to be proof rather that 'we just think they may be planning' (or...on the more extreme end which sadly many seem to come under 'he has brown skin, deport him, regardless of if he is born in Britain')...and at the moment, if there is proof they are locked up...so quite what is meant to to change besides 'normal people' losing their rights to innocent until proven guilty too?

[Beso]

Every single person who died on Saturday would have been alive? There were 2 other people carrying out the attack?

I get what you are saying but I think its a very dangerous route to be going down where, for example someone can be locked up on suspicion of doing something, when they may not have even been doing that if that makes sense? This will affect us all...not just the bad people.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/07/keir-starmer-uk-human-rights-law-does-not-prevent-capture-of-terrorists



This whole human rights thing is simply to take the heat off May about the cuts to security services. Nothing more. Removing human rights would not have lead to the Jihadi guy off the c4 program being jailed or deported. I do however think that MI5 were wrong in their assessment of how dangerous this guy was and as such stopped focusing on him.

In short, I disagree that someone should ever be locked up or deported simply because we think they are planning something. But if there is enough evidence they actually are then of course we should be able to lock them up (preferably in solitary, so they can not radicalize other people in prison) but we can do this already, and do do this already.

Intelligence agencies get it wrong sometimes though.

Course they would be alive. Maybe a different set of people would be dead, but everyone on saturday would still be alive.


Arrest everyone connected to him and waterboard them.

[Niamh.]

Course they would be alive. Maybe a different set of people would be dead, but everyone on saturday would still be alive.


Arrest everyone connected to him and waterboard them.

His paperboy, neighbours, granny, sister in law, cousin etc?

That BIB right there is why Human Rights need protecting

[Vicky.]

Course they would be alive. Maybe a different set of people would be dead, but everyone on saturday would still be alive.

I actually don't understand this. How can you say everybody on Saturday would still be alive, when the c4 guy was only one of 3 attackers. There were still 2 other people. We do not know which terrorist stabbed which person. The c4 guy might not have killed anyone at all!? We just do not know.

I may be missing something here though.


Arrest everyone connected to him and waterboard them.
You cannot be serious? Its hard to tell these days given these kind of extreme views seem to be getting more and more common. Just incase..

Everyone connected to him should be tortured. For what exactly? What do you mean by 'connected'. Family, friends, colleagues, people who have known him in the past...what? This kind of thinking scares me so much.

[Vicky.]

His paperboy, neighbours, granny, sister in law, cousin etc?

That BIB right there is why Human Rights need protecting

Indeed.

Wow, imagine being tortured because someone you used to know a few years ago committed a crime. Or because a family member did.



Sadly, I really do think some people would be happy with this. Until it happened to them of course...but no...it would never happen to them, could never happen to them. Until it actually does...

Guilty until proven innocent, with a bit of legal torture thrown in for good measure :S

[Niamh.]

Indeed.

Wow, imagine being tortured because someone you used to know a few years ago committed a crime. Or because a family member did.



Sadly, I really do think some people would be happy with this. Until it happened to them of course...but no...it would never happen to them, could never happen to them. Until it actually does...

Guilty until proven innocent, with a bit of legal torture thrown in for good measure :S

I am hoping parmnion was just pulling our legs, otherwise I seriously despair

[Vicky.]

I am hoping parmnion was just pulling our legs, otherwise I seriously despair

He may well have been, but there are people out there (and probably some on this site) who would be happy with this happening. As long as its happening to others of course.

[DemolitionRed]

Course they would be alive. Maybe a different set of people would be dead, but everyone on saturday would still be alive.


Arrest everyone connected to him and waterboard them.

That's why we can't give one government the ability to change our human rights. There are people in government who think like you do and that's really scary.

[Brother Leon]

Imagine using 160 deaths to try and push some political agenda.

[Brillopad]

My understanding is that it would involve opting out of some human rights laws that we currently subscribe to from europe, it doesn't affect British laws, they have to go through and be approved by parliament as they have always done.

We have kicked back in the past at laws around prisoners voting rights for example.

It's really quite alarmist to say that our liberty is in jeopardy. We have many checks and balances in the system.

The voice of reason. They are being alarmist yet they try and turn it around on anyone who doesn't agree with the.

[Anaesthesia]

My understanding is that it would involve opting out of some human rights laws that we currently subscribe to from europe.

To save everyone arguing over an abstract, do you have a link as to which laws they might be? Or is "some human rights laws from Europe" as concrete as it gets so far?

[user104658]

Sadly, I really do think some people would be happy with this. Until it happened to them of course...but no...it would never happen to them, could never happen to them. Until it actually does...


Ew no it couldn't happen unless you were a brown or friends with a brown or live in one of those Mosque ghetto communities. Yuck. Right-minded normal British folks would never be at any risk.

[user104658]

I am hoping parmnion was just pulling our legs, otherwise I seriously despair

I wouldn't like to speak for anyone but I strongly, strongly doubt it.

[Beso]

I actually don't understand this. How can you say everybody on Saturday would still be alive, when the c4 guy was only one of 3 attackers. There were still 2 other people. We do not know which terrorist stabbed which person. The c4 guy might not have killed anyone at all!? We just do not know.

I may be missing something here though.


You cannot be serious? Its hard to tell these days given these kind of extreme views seem to be getting more and more common. Just incase..

Everyone connected to him should be tortured. For what exactly? What do you mean by 'connected'. Family, friends, colleagues, people who have known him in the past...what? This kind of thinking scares me so much.

Time lines would be different so people would be in differwnt places at different times....

Yeah i went a bit far with the waterboarding comment...i meant his
Mates from the progtamme.

But i do think some sort of heavy handed interogations should take place...can you imagine it!
Oh mr terrorjst we need to know how you planned tbis, your network? We need names..how do you get to syria so easy? Are there any .ore attacks planned?


Eh, no comment mr policeman.......sorry folks times have changed, techniques should change....maybe send in some ex ira to interogate them....

[user104658]

Time lines would be different so people would be in differwnt places at different times...

The most you can say there is that different people would have been killed instead, though. It's totally unknown. No one can really say "this definitely wouldn't have happened if..." in these situations. Maybe one of the others would have had an even more destructive plan on his own, etc.