'Principle Confidence deal' agreed between Tories and DUP

[Rob!]

Election 2017: DUP agrees 'confidence' deal with Tories
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40236152


From what I understand it this is even less stable than what would have been achieved under a coalition. This is basically friends with benefits type scenario isn't it? So she couldn't even get a coalition to work with her ludicrous policies and going forward into Brexit.


JUST RESIGN WOMAN.

[Denver]

The DUP didnt want a coalition

[Brother Leon]

Basically "throw us a bribe when you need something".

[Vicky.]

Basically "throw us a bribe when you need something".

Yup, this is exactly what it is :(

[smudgie]

So basically they are carrying on doing what they have already been doing for years.
They are still making the numbers up so good on them.

[Vicky.]

So basically they are carrying on doing what they have already been doing for years.
They are still making the numbers up so good on them.

Tories have been throwing bribes to other parties for years? :suspect:

[smudgie]

Tories have been throwing bribes to other parties for years? :suspect:

:laugh::laugh: no, but the DUP have supported them through votes.

[Denver]

Tories will make Britian Great again

[Vicky.]

Tories will make Britian Great again

http://i.imgur.com/3CpVvk9.gif

[hijaxers]

Tories will make Britian Great again

Looks like they are doing a pretty good job of demolishing the country - How great is that ???

[Rob!]

Tories will make Britian Great again

Yes because they've done such a great job so far :umm2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes because they've done such a great job so far :umm2:

what has been labour's track record?

[Brillopad]

Election 2017: DUP agrees 'confidence' deal with Tories
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/election-2017-40236152


From what I understand it this is even less stable than what would have been achieved under a coalition. This is basically friends with benefits type scenario isn't it? So she couldn't even get a coalition to work with her ludicrous policies and going forward into Brexit.


JUST RESIGN WOMAN.

Why should she - she did better than Corbyn. Sick of people who can't accept a public vote. First Brexit now the election. She won - get over it.

[Rob!]

Why should she - she did better than Corbyn. Sick of people who can't accept a public vote. First Brexit now the election. She won - get over it.

But she didn't win though because otherwise she would have a majority government. Her own party is walking out on her and calling for her to resign. In what possible way is that winning?

[Black Dagger]

State of this country.

[joeysteele]

Looks like they are doing a pretty good job of demolishing the country - How great is that ???

They are indeed.
I'm just glad she was rejected by voters as to what she expected.
A much greater majority which could be highlighted to say she is right in her policies.

She failed to get it, even worse for her just 10 more seats to Labour and she would not have been in any position to get a Queens speech passed.
Anyway, problems could still rear it's head.
Ruth Davidson is a strong Con leader in Scotland.
She distanced herself from the social care plans.

She will be the influencing voice as to the Scottish MPs elected, they may cause very demanding problems for this useless Prime Minister.

[DemolitionRed]

Only a very weak government would consider this. The likelihood of the DUP dropping out of this very quickly is astoundingly high.

[DemolitionRed]

They are indeed.
I'm just glad she was rejected by voters as to what she expected.
A much greater majority which could be highlighted to say she is right in her policies.

She failed to get it, even worse for her just 10 more seats to Labour and she would not have been in any position to get a Queens speech passed.
Anyway, problems could still rear it's head.
Ruth Davidson is a strong Con leader in Scotland.
She distanced herself from the social care plans.

She will be the influencing voice as to the Scottish MPs elected, they may cause very demanding problems for this useless Prime Minister.

Lets hope so.

[bots]

But she didn't win though because otherwise she would have a majority government. Her own party is walking out on her and calling for her to resign. In what possible way is that winning?

If we are going to be 100% accurate, she did win, she just doesn't have a big enough majority to carry out any legislation comfortably.

Many countries around europe have not had a working majority in decades. Its not a new phenomena. It just makes things a bit more interesting, and basically, nothing ever gets done

[Jack_]

Tories will make Britian Great again

Don't talk ****e, they have plunged this country into the instability and sluggishness of a minority administration, nine days before the most important negotiations in modern British political history begin. And this in an election in which they sought to crush the opposition for a generation, and set up a one party state to dismantle our public services. This coalition of terrorist sympathising chaos couldn't be any less strong and stable than the fields of wheat Theresa May ran through

[Brillopad]

But she didn't win though because otherwise she would have a majority government. Her own party is walking out on her and calling for her to resign. In what possible way is that winning?

Majority or not she still won. Far from ideal, but she is still in a better position than Corbyn. Despite the hype, manipulation of young voters by Corbyn and his supporters and May's unpopularity she still beat Corbyn.

Maybe she is more suited to a less public role, but the Tories won and that is what counts, especially given the other poor choices.

[Jack_]

This is going to be completely unworkable. I hope she keeps squatting in number ten because the longer she does, the more Labour can leave them to hang themselves

One thing I am pleased about this result however, is that the repulsive Tory manifesto is certainly going to have to be watered down, and each member of the Commons will rightly be able to play their part in scrutinising this administration and the Brexit negotiations. They've got no carte blanche mandate to **** this country over

[Denver]

Don't talk ****e, they have plunged this country into the instability and sluggishness of a minority administration, nine days before the most important negotiations in modern British political history begin. And this in an election in which they sought to crush the opposition for a generation, and set up a one party state to dismantle our public services. This coalition of terrorist sympathising chaos couldn't be any less strong and stable than the fields of wheat Theresa May ran through

Screaming at you thinking Labour had such a faultless time at the helm

[DemolitionRed]

Screaming at you thinking Labour had such a faultless time at the helm

Nobody is suggesting Labour were faultless. Tony Blair's NL was monstrous but that's dead and gone now.

We are talking about the present situation going on in number 10

[Jack_]

Screaming at you thinking Labour had such a faultless time at the helm

Please direct me to where I've ever said that? I've been critical of the last New Labour government on many occasion. May I suggest you read posts properly.

Scream to yourself all you like, but the Tories have enacted this mess, and now they're going to lie in it.

[VanessaFeltz.]

May 2015 %6.5 difference between conservatives and labour
June 2017 %2.4 difference between conservatives and labour
if snp does well in scotland again and labour keeps the momentum going we can have the holy duo of labour and snp ruling the country ^.^

[Denver]

The SNP will never get the votes again they will keep losing seats

[Kazanne]

But she didn't win though because otherwise she would have a majority government. Her own party is walking out on her and calling for her to resign. In what possible way is that winning?

Corbyns party have been asking him to resign for ages aswell,he didn't go,so anything can happen.

[Rob!]

what has been labour's track record?

Completely irrelevant in this conversation but keep trying

[Black Dagger]

He's also made those people look like fools, do you really think they'd have upped their voting share with anybody else in the running to replace him? Teresa is busy making herself like a fool.

[bots]

Corbyns party have been asking him to resign for ages aswell,he didn't go,so anything can happen.

TM is in a much more exposed position though. I'm pretty sure she will want to have resigned but just isn't able to at the moment. I would be very surprised if she is still in place come the opening of parliament/start of EU negotiations. She is purely there at the moment to give people behind the scenes time to come up with alternatives.

[Denver]

He's also made those people look like fools, do you really think they'd have upped their voting share with anybody else in the running to replace him? Teresa is busy making herself like a fool.

Lets not pretend the voting share was not upped on the false promise of free education

[Black Dagger]

Lets not pretend the voting share was not upped on the false promise of free education

You are not very good with politics and just sound like a broken record.

[Denver]

So tell me why else did the young vote for him?

[bots]

So tell me why else did the young vote for him?

this is a democracy, no-one needs a reason to vote for anyone and they certainly dont need to justify their voting to anyone.

[MB.]

Turns out they haven't even agreed upon a deal after all!

873682026116907013

So, er, what was that about being strong and stable?...

[MB.]

Oh, and the DUP don't work on Sundays, so this should be fun

[Beso]

Only a very weak government would consider this. The likelihood of the DUP dropping out of this very quickly is astoundingly high.

Labour would need the dup too if they were to form a coalition.

[JTM45]

The DUP issued a statement last night saying that the annoncement from Downing Street that a deal had been reached was incorrect and that the DUP are still in talks with the Tories and that no deal has been finalized as of yet.

Come on Mrs Maybot, give it up! You're a lame duck who's blown it big time and nobody will take you seriously from here on.

[Jack_]

Labour would need the dup too if they were to form a coalition.

In theory yes but it's not essential. If May's Queen's Speech does not pass, then as the official opposition Labour are invited to attempt to form a government and do the same.

This is where it's interesting. Do moderate (LGB) Tories uncomfortable with being propped up by the DUP, vote down the QS but risk putting Corbyn into number ten? All it takes is eight abstentions, noes or crossing the floor and they lose their working majority. The same applies for confidence motions. Which of their principals are more important to them?

So, in the event of a Labour QS, Tory MPs would be faced with a choice: abstain or even vote it up, handing Corbyn the keys, or vote it down and stare another general election in the face, while their party is in disarray. In this scenario Labour actually have the upper hand. There are further problems though, and this is why I'm not sure it's the best strategy for Labour. Say they attempt to govern as a minority, the Tories can then be difficult and vote down legislation in an attempt to show him up as ineffective. Or, alternatively, they abstain and leave him be for the foreseeable, expecting the Brexit negotiations to be a disaster, giving them attack lines on a plate ready for the next election.

I expect May's QS to pass but how long can this go on for? It's unworkable.

[JTM45]

It's amazing that May managed to convince people that she was ''Strong and Stable'' for as long as she did.
It's hilarious that the reason that the majority of Britain is now fully aware of how useless she actually is because SHE went back on her word (something she loves to do) and called for a snap General Election and in the very short build-up to said election she did pretty much nothing while Corbyn used that time amazingly well to pull off one of the biggest turn-arounds in UK Political history! Legend.:thumbs:

[Brillopad]

It's amazing that May managed to convince people that she was ''Strong and Stable'' for as long as she did.
It's hilarious that the reason that the majority of Britain is now fully aware of how useless she actually is because SHE went back on her word (something she loves to do) and called for a snap General Election and in the very short build-up to said election she did pretty much nothing while Corbyn used that time amazingly well to pull off one of the biggest turn-arounds in UK Political history! Legend.:thumbs:

All he did was make lots of unworkable promises to get the young voters to vote for him. It's called manipulation.

It's amazing how he managed to convince people how he was working for the many rather than the few for as long as he did.

People believe what they want to at the end of the day if they think they will have more money in their pockets to spend, spend, spend - more beers at the pub or the uni bar.

[JTM45]

All he did was make lots of unworkable promises to get the young voters to vote for him. It's called manipulation.

It's amazing how he managed to convince people how he was working for the many rather than the few for as long as he did.

People believe what they want to at the end of the day if they think they will have more money in their pockets to spend, spend, spend - more beers at the pub or the uni bar.

Clueless........really.:bored:

[Brillopad]

Clueless........really.:bored:

Not half as clueless as thinking a terrorist sympathiser would make a good British PM.

[joeysteele]

What is there to talk about and do a deal on.
Either the DUP will vote with this govt.and Mrs May or not.
What likely 'hidden' deals are being talked about and done with the DUP.

There is a simple question,are the DUP demanding perhaps controversial things in return for their support.
If not what's holding up a simple 'yes' to voting with the Cons in parliament.

I have no trust or faith in anything Mrs May does or says,I wouldn't put anything past her at all as to devious activity.

What is holding up the DUP simply saying yes,we are usually natural allies,you can rely on our votes.
What are they asking for that has things dragging on.

Sinn Féinn and most voters,have every right,if they do,to be suspicious and concerned at what Mrs May and the Cons may have to be considering to give to the DUP, for this dubious looking possibly,and worse still dangerous plan to have a N Irish party making any demands from the national UK govt.

[joeysteele]

Clueless........really.:bored:

Summed up perfectly in 2 words there JTM45.

[Brillopad]

Summed up perfectly in 2 words there JTM45.

I take that as a compliment from some as they can identify with what the word really means.

[Crimson Dynamo]

sadly 99% of this forum cant remember what being ruled by a socialist government is like

idealism is great but it does not pay bills

people tend to work that out in their 30s, generally

[user104658]

sadly 99% of this forum cant remember what being ruled by a socialist government is like

idealism is great but it does not pay bills

people tend to work that out in their 30s, generally

That infers that a Labour coalition would be hard socialist which is flat out false, LT. What some people seem not to realise is that there's a pretty large space between "all out socialism" and "tory austerity".

[user104658]

Also is no one else seriously concerned about Downing Street quite blatantly deliberately releasing false claims that a deal had been struck? "Accidentally" ffs, "Woops we thought there was a deal but actually I just fell on the release press statement button by an accidents".

It was a blatant attempt to manipulate the public and pretend that things are more under control than they actually are. Yet another backfire for May - things look more out of her control than ever as she's had to resort to telling porkies about the most basic of things.

[bots]

No deal is done until the deal is done, and even then it may not last 5 minutes :laugh:

The tories are going through a process that they need to or they would be failing in their duty to the British people, to at least try and form a government.

However, all it will take is a small handful of disaffected tories to stop everything in its tracks.

What are the odds of a re-run of the election in the next 60 days? I would happily put a few quid on that.

[Kizzy]

This is on the rocks thank god :D

[JTM45]

or they would be failing in their duty to the British people

This is what the Tories do best.
Shacking up with a bunch of homophobic, anti-choice, delusional creationist bigots is them failing their duty to the British people. Theresa May calling a snap general election to puff her chest after she specifically said she wouldn't was her failing her duty to the British people.

I could go on.......but if it isn't clear to you by this point.:shrug:

[Kizzy]

Can you imagine this shower of backward thinkers in parliament?... When she suggested it you cold almost hear the entire nation facepalm! :laugh:

[Tom4784]

Why should she - she did better than Corbyn. Sick of people who can't accept a public vote. First Brexit now the election. She won - get over it.

The Tories went from having a majority government to a hung government and a large part of this is down to May who lead a terrible campaign and opted for an election when the Tories didn't need one just to try to crush the competition.

If you think this is a win for the Tories then you don't understand politics. They are in a worse position than they were before, they lost the majority they had previously and it looks like another election will likely be called soon and if that's the case they'll likely lose the minority they had too.

[Brillopad]

Can you imagine this shower of backward thinkers in parliament?... When she suggested it you cold almost hear the entire nation facepalm! :laugh:

Entire nation! :joker::joker::joker::joker::joker::joker:

[Brillopad]

The Tories went from having a majority government to a hung government and a large part of this is down to May who lead a terrible campaign and opted for an election when the Tories didn't need one just to try to crush the competition.

If you think this is a win for the Tories then you don't understand politics. They are in a worse position than they were before, they lost the majority they had previously and it looks like another election will likely be called soon and if that's the case they'll likely lose the minority they had too.

All guesswork and bravado. No definites about anything - just supposition.

[Tom4784]

Corbyns party have been asking him to resign for ages aswell,he didn't go,so anything can happen.

Because Corbyn managed to drum up a lot of public support and they made gains in this election when everybody thought they would be obliterated.

It'll be difficult for anyone in Labour to make a case against Corbyn when it's been shown that he has a strong following and can turn a bad situation around.

[Tom4784]

All guesswork and bravado. No definites about anything - just supposition.

Are you saying it's not factual that Tories lost seats? Is the fact that they went from a Tory majority to a minority not true? Jesus ****ing Christ, utter delusion on your part if you are gonna try to deny those facts.

[Mitchell]

Tories will make Britian Great again

They will, Theresa ****ed it up by calling this election and now there's likely to be another election which hopefully labour will win and make Britain great again :)

[Brillopad]

They will, Theresa ****ed it up by calling this election and now there's likely to be another election which hopefully labour will win and make Britain great again :)

Great Britain will as good as disappear off the face of the map with Corbyn in charge.

[DemolitionRed]

Clueless........really.:bored:

I think Ill stick with the world economists view and not some record that's got stuck.

[DemolitionRed]

Oh dear http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38301…

If you were in the leadership of Sinn Fein, would you now trust May & Co. to be "honest brokers" in facilitating the negotiations to resume power-sharing government? The structure of the Good Friday Agreement has never been in such peril as it is now.

[Kizzy]

Oh dear http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38301…

If you were in the leadership of Sinn Fein, would you now trust May & Co. to be "honest brokers" in facilitating the negotiations to resume power-sharing government? The structure of the Good Friday Agreement has never been in such peril as it is now.

No I would not, and with good reason, there must be a clause in the good friday agreement that states that this power sharing deal is contrary to any deal on neutrality?... She has screwed up royally and she knows it :)

[joeysteele]

Oh dear http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-38301…

If you were in the leadership of Sinn Fein, would you now trust May & Co. to be "honest brokers" in facilitating the negotiations to resume power-sharing government? The structure of the Good Friday Agreement has never been in such peril as it is now.


No I wouldn't then again I'd never trust a word of May's or her actions.

Also I agree with what Kizzy said too.

[Vicky.]

In theory yes but it's not essential. If May's Queen's Speech does not pass, then as the official opposition Labour are invited to attempt to form a government and do the same.

This is where it's interesting. Do moderate (LGB) Tories uncomfortable with being propped up by the DUP, vote down the QS but risk putting Corbyn into number ten? All it takes is eight abstentions, noes or crossing the floor and they lose their working majority. The same applies for confidence motions. Which of their principals are more important to them?

So, in the event of a Labour QS, Tory MPs would be faced with a choice: abstain or even vote it up, handing Corbyn the keys, or vote it down and stare another general election in the face, while their party is in disarray. In this scenario Labour actually have the upper hand. There are further problems though, and this is why I'm not sure it's the best strategy for Labour. Say they attempt to govern as a minority, the Tories can then be difficult and vote down legislation in an attempt to show him up as ineffective. Or, alternatively, they abstain and leave him be for the foreseeable, expecting the Brexit negotiations to be a disaster, giving them attack lines on a plate ready for the next election.

I expect May's QS to pass but how long can this go on for? It's unworkable.

Yes. I don't really get why Corbyn is doing this. It is NOT a good thing to be in control when Brexit hits properly. Let the Tories sort out their own mess ffs...

[Mitchell]

Great Britain will as good as disappear off the face of the map with Corbyn in charge.

And it'll all be Theresa May's fault for calling an unnecessary general election! :hehe:

[user104658]

No I would not, and with good reason, there must be a clause in the good friday agreement that states that this power sharing deal is contrary to any deal on neutrality?... She has screwed up royally and she knows it :)

The entire crux of the Good Friday agreement is that both "sides" will share power, with Westminster able to step in with (supposed) unbiased judgement if there is a disagreement. The DUP having any sway over the government completely undermines the basic principles of the agreement to the extent that I would say it makes it effectively void. It's hugely worrying.

In fact it's so precarious that I would say, now having looked into the potential consequences, that the DUP (and Sinn Fein, but I doubt they ever would anyway) should simply not be able to enter into a formal or informal agreement like this in Westminster. Even that means the SNP and Plaid also not being eligible to do so as a consequence, then so be it. The consequences are just not worth it for the sake of political chess.

[Brillopad]

The entire crux of the Good Friday agreement is that both "sides" will share power, with Westminster able to step in with (supposed) unbiased judgement if there is a disagreement. The DUP having any sway over the government completely undermines the basic principles of the agreement to the extent that I would say it makes it effectively void. It's hugely worrying.

In fact it's so precarious that I would say, now having looked into the potential consequences, that the DUP (and Sinn Fein, but I doubt they ever would anyway) should simply not be able to enter into a formal or informal agreement like this in Westminster. Even that means the SNP and Plaid also not being eligible to do so as a consequence, then so be it. The consequences are just not worth it for the sake of political chess.

But why wasn't this ever brought up before the situation arose - especially from the DUP and Sinn Fein. Didn't anyone think what would happen if either party was called to join an alliance with the government. All seems odd.

[Vicky.]

But why wasn't this ever brought up before the situation arose - especially from the DUP and Sinn Fein. Didn't anyone think what would happen if either party was called to join an alliance with the government. All seems odd.

I saw this mentioned the day of the election results. I expect it wasn't spoken about before that as noone really expected any result except for a (large) Tory majority...so noone really thought through options.

[user104658]

But why wasn't this ever brought up before the situation arose - especially from the DUP and Sinn Fein. Didn't anyone think what would happen if either party was called to join an alliance with the government. All seems odd.

No one (NO one), from any party, not May, not Corbyn, just Kizzy, really expected it to be anything other than a Conservative majority... I genuinely just don't think it was ever thought through because no one thought the situation would come up. When it was seen as a possibility in 2015 that Milliband might be able to form a coalition government with the SNP, the Tories were dead set against the idea... it came up because it was seen as a very realistic election outcome. This wasn't, so no one even mentioned it. It's only now that it's a reality that people are stepping forward to point out that there are some very deep concerns.

[Jack_]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCB65lyWsAAUILF.jpg:large

I'm pissing

[Jack_]

The internet has been the best during this election campaign

[Kizzy]

No one (NO one), from any party, not May, not Corbyn, not even Kizzy, really expected it to be anything other than a Conservative majority... I genuinely just don't think it was ever thought through because no one thought the situation would come up. When it was seen as a possibility in 2015 that Milliband might be able to form a coalition government with the SNP, the Tories were dead set against the idea... it came up because it was seen as a very realistic election outcome. This wasn't, so no one even mentioned it. It's only now that it's a reality that people are stepping forward to point out that there are some very deep concerns.

Erm ... I was the only person to keep my faith thank you :idc:

[user104658]

Erm ... I was the only person to keep my faith thank you :idc:

Edited.

[Kazanne]

But why wasn't this ever brought up before the situation arose - especially from the DUP and Sinn Fein. Didn't anyone think what would happen if either party was called to join an alliance with the government. All seems odd.

The DUP said they would never do a deal with Corbyn,i wonder why

[Vicky.]

The DUP said they would never do a deal with Corbyn,i wonder why

Far right parties are hardly compatible with lefties :D

[bots]

I think its genuinely laughable that other parties moan at the tories using the DUP for support when it was their pig headedness in saying no deal with the tories that pushed the tories down that path.

They each had an opportunity to soften the edges of a tory government and stated they wouldn't under any circumstances prop them up.

It is disingenuous of them now to try and claim some sort of moral superiority

[joeysteele]

Far right parties are hardly compatible with lefties :D

Dead right.
It would be like the Cons doing a deal with the Socialist workers party,impossible.

[joeysteele]

I think its genuinely laughable that other parties moan at the tories using the DUP for support when it was their pig headedness in saying no deal with the tories that pushed the tories down that path.

They each had an opportunity to soften the edges of a tory government and stated they wouldn't under any circumstances prop them up.

It is disingenuous of them now to try and claim some sort of moral superiority


Not really.
Especially when the Cons have positioned themselves even to being further away from the Lib Dems now too.
On Brexit for instance,miles apart now.

The Greens,Plaid Cymru and the SNP all anti Con policy.

Maybe the Cons need to look at and question why just about all other Parties find them so abhorrent to deal with or support.
Apart from the DUP that is.

The Cons are fortunate in this election only in that the DUP did a little better in N.Ireland and moreso that Sinn Féinn largely replaced the SDLP, who would have taken seats at Westminster had they got MPs elected.

[user104658]

The DUP said they would never do a deal with Corbyn,i wonder why

Just heard the DUP would NEVER prop up Corbyn,why is that?

Is this a real question? :joker:

For exactly the same reasons that the SNP, Greens, Plaid etc. would never prop up the Conservatives. Complete political incompatibility.

The Lib Dems foolishly tried to in 2010 and it completely devastated their party.



Is there a reason you're asking this same question in multiple threads? You seem to be trying to make a point that doesn't exist... like "Ooooh the DUP must not trust him!!" or something.

There's no great mystery Kazanne. They wouldn't do a deal with Labour because their policies are incompatible. The same reason that the SNP wouldn't do a deal with the Tories.

[DouglasS]

I don't understand how Corbyn could rule as he would never be able to get a majority, as Conservatives have like 48 percent, and then the DUP the other 4 percent or so, so he'd always end up with less than what the Conservatives have by themselves even conjoined with all other parties

[Mystic Mock]

I think its genuinely laughable that other parties moan at the tories using the DUP for support when it was their pig headedness in saying no deal with the tories that pushed the tories down that path.

They each had an opportunity to soften the edges of a tory government and stated they wouldn't under any circumstances prop them up.

It is disingenuous of them now to try and claim some sort of moral superiority

Who wants to get the Lib Dems treatment by the Media? The DUP are idiots as they'll get all of the blame for what the Tories are doing.

[Mystic Mock]

I don't understand how Corbyn could rule as he would never be able to get a majority, as Conservatives have like 48 percent, and then the DUP the other 4 percent or so, so he'd always end up with less than what the Conservatives have by themselves even conjoined with all other parties

Conservatives polled about 43% whilst Labour got about 38 to 39% of the vote share, just add a few extra seats from other big parties and that percentage goes up.

[Jack_]

This is so ****ing fake it's hysterical :joker: I'm pissing at the very idea of Tory ministers chatting on WhatsApp about how they need to 'serve the country', give me a ****ing break

873904648062717954

More like how to dismantle the country

[Greg!]

This is so ****ing fake it's hysterical :joker: I'm pissing at the very idea of Tory ministers chatting on WhatsApp about how they need to 'serve the country', give me a ****ing break

873904648062717954

More like how to dismantle the country

How convenient it was leaked at the exact same time Boris was being accused of plotting against Tezza :joker:

[Jack_]

Michael Gove MP
Boris is right

Conor Burns MP
Spot on Boris

FFS what an embarrassment of a party :laugh3:

[King Gizzard]

This is so ****ing fake it's hysterical :joker: I'm pissing at the very idea of Tory ministers chatting on WhatsApp about how they need to 'serve the country', give me a ****ing break

873904648062717954

More like how to dismantle the country

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCC_SFUXcAAgEBv.jpg

[Brillopad]

I think its genuinely laughable that other parties moan at the tories using the DUP for support when it was their pig headedness in saying no deal with the tories that pushed the tories down that path.

They each had an opportunity to soften the edges of a tory government and stated they wouldn't under any circumstances prop them up.

It is disingenuous of them now to try and claim some sort of moral superiority

Good point. Little cliques now.

[Scarlett.]

Far right parties are hardly compatible with lefties :D

Hell, they're hardly even compatible with normal right wingers too :laugh:

[Kizzy]

'Supporters of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) are demanding Theresa May allow a banned loyalist march as part of an agreement by the Northern Irish party to prop up a minority Conservative government.

The Portadown Loyal Orange Lodge (LOL), who are currently prevented from marching in the flashpoint Gavaghy Road following a long history of sectarian violence, put out a statement amid speculation as to what concessions the DUP could demand in return for striking a deal with the Tories.'

How can anyone suggest that aligning with the DUP would not look like condoning terrorism?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/orange-order-portadown-northern-ireland-dup-use-banned-drumcree-march-negotiations-with-theresa-may-a7785026.html

[user104658]

The Portadown Loyal Orange Lodge (LOL), who are currently prevented from marching in the flashpoint Gavaghy Road following a long history of sectarian violence, put out a statement amid speculation as to what concessions the DUP could demand in return for striking a deal with the Tories.'

I really don't think any of this is funny, Kizzy :(

[Kizzy]

I really don't think any of this is funny, Kizzy :(

I was going to mention it...But I didn't want to be THAT guy. :hehe:

[user104658]

I was going to mention it...But I didn't want to be THAT guy. :hehe:

I'm comfortable being that guy.

[Kizzy]

I'm comfortable being that guy.

:cheer2::cheer2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

'Supporters of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) are demanding Theresa May allow a banned loyalist march as part of an agreement by the Northern Irish party to prop up a minority Conservative government.

The Portadown Loyal Orange Lodge (LOL), who are currently prevented from marching in the flashpoint Gavaghy Road following a long history of sectarian violence, put out a statement amid speculation as to what concessions the DUP could demand in return for striking a deal with the Tories.'

How can anyone suggest that aligning with the DUP would not look like condoning terrorism?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/orange-order-portadown-northern-ireland-dup-use-banned-drumcree-march-negotiations-with-theresa-may-a7785026.html

Why cant they march peacefully there?

is that place some kind of area of special interest?


I am sure that the people in that area can just turn up the telly for half an hour like any normal person would, or perhaps go out to visit a relative?

[user104658]

Why cant they march peacefully there?

is that place some kind of area of special interest?


I am sure that the people in that area can just turn up the telly for half an hour like any normal person would, or perhaps go out to visit a relative?

Yeah! Stupid "troubles" nonsense, why didn't they just turn up The X Factor :fist:. So many lives could have been saved. Where were you then, LT? Where were you then??

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yeah! Stupid "troubles" nonsense, why didn't they just turn up The X Factor :fist:. So many lives could have been saved. Where were you then, LT? Where were you then??

sorry is it illegal to play musical instruments and walk in the street now

did i miss the memo?

[Kizzy]

Why cant they march peacefully there?

is that place some kind of area of special interest?


I am sure that the people in that area can just turn up the telly for half an hour like any normal person would, or perhaps go out to visit a relative?

Oh the break from your trolling was wonderful :laugh:

[joeysteele]

'Supporters of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) are demanding Theresa May allow a banned loyalist march as part of an agreement by the Northern Irish party to prop up a minority Conservative government.

The Portadown Loyal Orange Lodge (LOL), who are currently prevented from marching in the flashpoint Gavaghy Road following a long history of sectarian violence, put out a statement amid speculation as to what concessions the DUP could demand in return for striking a deal with the Tories.'

How can anyone suggest that aligning with the DUP would not look like condoning terrorism?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/orange-order-portadown-northern-ireland-dup-use-banned-drumcree-march-negotiations-with-theresa-may-a7785026.html


It's a flashpoint area,one of several and the pathetic orange order do NOT just want to march down there,they want to deliberately bait and taunt as they do so.

I can see the DUP making some demands on this,tge orange order and lodges are firmly embedded in the DUP.

Major issues are possibly going to be stirred up with any deal with the bigots that are the DUP.
This has to affect not only the other Parties in N Ireland,also though voters in N Ireland, particularly the Catholic residents of whom most must be getting more suspicious by the hour.

This could easily inflame old issues and threaten even for a time, the hard won and longed for peace process.
This stupid PM we have,for her own greed and arrogance who called this unnecessary election,may yet end up creating even greater division across the UK.
Even moreso resurrect the old hate and distrust in N Ireland now too.

I say again however and if I had influence I'd implore them to do so, I wish Sinn Féinn would come to cast their votes at Westminster.
At a stroke that would wipe out most of the advantage gained by the Cons bringing in the DUP,making the votes in Parliament even tighter.

[user104658]

sorry is it illegal to play musical instruments and walk in the street now

did i miss the memo?

Illegal, no. Pointless and inflammatory and therefore of dubious morality? Yes.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oh the break from your trolling was wonderful :laugh:

Sorry?

oh wait I see, haha

I say something that you disagree with so you say I am trolling to try and make you and your view superior?

what fun

:bored:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Illegal, no. Pointless and inflammatory and therefore of dubious morality? Yes.

It may be pointless to you but as you are of course aware ( and as such why on earth did you post this) its not to the people who are marching

[user104658]

It may be pointless to you but as you are of course aware ( and as such why on earth did you post this) its not to the people who are marching

Well, you seem to think that the people they are marching past can just "go out or turn up the telly"... so I'm a bit confused that on the flipside it's suddenly all-important :think:. If one group of people can just "ignore it", then the other can just, surely, "not do it"?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well, you seem to think that the people they are marching past can just "go out or turn up the telly"... so I'm a bit confused that on the flipside it's suddenly all-important :think:. If one group of people can just "ignore it", then the other can just, surely, "not do it"?

I gave 2 examples of what one could do if the "noise" of someone doing their lawful business somehow affected them

Just as one does when the neighbours are strimming

[Stu]

What kind of thought is required to want to march through an area where one of your followers murdered three children, burned them alive in their sleep by throwing a pipe bomb through their window. A 7 year old, a 9 year old, and an 11 year old.

Think about that.

That only makes sense in the mind of a ****ing scumbag.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What kind of thought is required to want to march through an area where one of your followers murdered three children, burned them alive in their sleep by throwing a pipe bomb through their window. A 7 year old, a 9 year old, and an 11 year old.

Think about that.

That only makes sense in the mind of a ****ing scumbag.

Well if you start off your argument with such hatred and your mind already made up I am afraid I cannot help you with any reply

[Stu]

Well if you start off your argument with such hatred and your mind already made up I am afraid I cannot help you with any reply
That's alright. Trade on a wind up act and you'll find all your words a dead currency.

[user104658]

I gave 2 examples of what one could do if the "noise" of someone doing their lawful business somehow affected them

Just as one does when the neighbours are strimming

What utter nonsense LT. You're trying to argue that the event is so unimportant to the people in the area who would fight against it that it can be compared to "a neighbour strimming" ... whilst at the same time arguing that it IS clearly much more important to the people who are doing the marches.

You can't have it both ways.

I suspect you may be more than a little biased on this issue.

[Kizzy]

Sorry?

oh wait I see, haha

I say something that you disagree with so you say I am trolling to try and make you and your view superior?

what fun

:bored:

Yeah, see you do remember how it works :)

[Withano]

This is so ****ing fake it's hysterical :joker: I'm pissing at the very idea of Tory ministers chatting on WhatsApp about how they need to 'serve the country', give me a ****ing break

873904648062717954

More like how to dismantle the country

I want to see more. You can just tell theyre sharing gifs of poor people looking sad.

[Crimson Dynamo]

BoJo rallying the troops and thinking only of dear old Blighty


:clap1:

[user104658]

"Spot on Boris" and "Boris is right" surely confirm this as fake AF :umm2:

[user104658]

"Look every1, dere juss like us!"

[MTVN]

Pretty sure they are real - everyone is treating them as such and no one has denied them. I think MPs do actually use Whatsapp quite a lot as well. Boris probably wrote them intending or expecting them to be leaked to show himself as supportive of May because so many people are accusing him of eyeing up the leadership already

[Vicky.]

I think they were sent as he knew that there was going to be stories of his leadership bid. He leaked them himself, or arranged for someone else to. Just too convenient timing :D

[King Gizzard]

They can be real without being genuine

[Vicky.]

Mind would they really have their whatsapp names as 'Gove MP' and such? D:

[King Gizzard]

**** what I said I still think it's 100% bollocks and probably sent from an out of touch adviser

"The kids these days use what's up don't they? They'll buy this. Yep"

[Withano]

Mind would they really have their whatsapp names as 'Gove MP' and such? D:

That would just be what whoever screenshotted it had saved them under in their contact list

[Kizzy]

Yep they saved them as 'gove MP' so as not to confused with 'gove plumber' or 'gove roofer'... :idc:

[smudgie]

Anybody have any idea how the principle confidence deal will work out if the deadline of 29th June passes without any agreement in the NI government and they might come back under direct rule?

[Beso]

'Supporters of the Democratic Unionist Party (DUP) are demanding Theresa May allow a banned loyalist march as part of an agreement by the Northern Irish party to prop up a minority Conservative government.

The Portadown Loyal Orange Lodge (LOL), who are currently prevented from marching in the flashpoint Gavaghy Road following a long history of sectarian violence, put out a statement amid speculation as to what concessions the DUP could demand in return for striking a deal with the Tories.'

How can anyone suggest that aligning with the DUP would not look like condoning terrorism?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/orange-order-portadown-northern-ireland-dup-use-banned-drumcree-march-negotiations-with-theresa-may-a7785026.html

How is that condoning terrorism fgs, that is laughable.

These marches are not for gloryfying terrorism or the troubles..they mark important historical events..they get treated like we would treat our yearly village/town fets/carnival.

[Crimson Dynamo]

How is that condoning terrorism fgs, that is laughable.

These marches are not for gloryfying terrorism or the troubles..they mark important historical events..they get treated like we would treat our yearly village/town fets/carnival.

:clap2:

[joeysteele]

How is that condoning terrorism fgs, that is laughable.

These marches are not for gloryfying terrorism or the troubles..they mark important historical events..they get treated like we would treat our yearly village/town fets/carnival.

You are joking, those ridiculous orange marches are pathetic.
They are used to taunt and bait Catholic resident areas and are very much a put down to the Catholic communities.

It is all well and good celebrating history, however to want to parade pompously down the opposite sides areas is in my view nothing other than provocative.

If they got present no go areas opened up to the orange marches again, it would open up doors that should have been totally sealed ages ago.

[Beso]

You are joking, those ridiculous orange marches are pathetic.
They are used to taunt and bait Catholic resident areas and are very much a put down to the Catholic communities.

It is all well and good celebrating history, however to want to parade pompously down the opposite sides areas is in my view nothing other than provocative.

If they got present no go areas opened up to the orange marches again, it would open up doors that should have been totally sealed ages ago.



It doeant support terrorism though..

Also the republicans march as well, but they are usually in memory of a terrorist like the james connolly one held annually in edinburgh

[jet]

It doeant support terrorism though..

Also the republicans march as well, but they are usually in memory of a terrorist like the james connolly one held annually in edinburgh

Quite right. Republicans also have marches to commemorate the Easter Rising, the IRA Hunger Strikers, Republican Culture etc.

The Protestant Orange parade commemorating the battle of the boyne is the biggest, and before the Troubles many a Catholic brought their kids along for a good day out at the festivities. I went as a kid, and I brought my kids along with our Protestant friends. It wasn't until the Troubles that it all changed.

The reason the Orangemen parade near Catholic areas is because that was their traditional route when those areas were actually Protestant areas (and it is just a few areas). Their argument is that it is the Queens Highway and we have always walked this way, why should we have to re - route. Silly really. The Catholics feel the Protestants are taunting them by continuing to march nearby. Also silly really.
As far as I know it's been mainly sorted out by some re - routing and Orange bands ceasing playing if they still pass a Catholic area.

It's all been blown out of proportion by a few contentious issues over the years. All parades, Republican and Loyalist, pass off peacefully as a rule. It's just a question of each side respecting each others culture.

[Stu]

James Connolly wasn't a terrorist. To suggest otherwise exhibits an appalling grasp on history, and it's contextualization. That's a shocking, embarrassing suggestion to make, and I can't help but ponder what road that suggestion leads down in your mind.

[Kizzy]

Quite right. Republicans also have marches to commemorate the Easter Rising, the IRA Hunger Strikers, Republican Culture etc.

The Protestant Orange parade commemorating the battle of the boyne is the biggest, and before the Troubles many a Catholic brought their kids along for a good day out at the festivities. I went as a kid, and I brought my kids along with our Protestant friends. It wasn't until the Troubles that it all changed.

The reason the Orangemen parade near Catholic areas is because that was their traditional route when those areas were actually Protestant areas (and it is just a few areas). Their argument is that it is the Queens Highway and we have always walked this way, why should we have to re - route. Silly really. The Catholics feel the Protestants are taunting them by continuing to march nearby. Also silly really.
As far as I know it's been mainly sorted out by some re - routing and Orange bands ceasing playing if they still pass a Catholic area.

It's all been blown out of proportion by a few contentious issues over the years. All parades, Republican and Loyalist, pass off peacefully as a rule. It's just a question of each side respecting each others culture.

Hang on, I thought they went on routes to retrace steps made by the marauding English invaders years ago?

[Beso]

James Connolly wasn't a terrorist. To suggest otherwise exhibits an appalling grasp on history, and it's contextualization. That's a shocking, embarrassing suggestion to make, and I can't help but ponder what road that suggestion leads down in your mind.

Sorry, would you prefer traitor?

[Crimson Dynamo]

You are joking, those ridiculous orange marches are pathetic.
They are used to taunt and bait Catholic resident areas and are very much a put down to the Catholic communities.

It is all well and good celebrating history, however to want to parade pompously down the opposite sides areas is in my view nothing other than provocative.

If they got present no go areas opened up to the orange marches again, it would open up doors that should have been totally sealed ages ago.

I take it you have seen them in person?

[Stu]

Sorry, would you prefer traitor?
Marxist, socialist thinker, Irish Republican. Those all do fine. Do you reckon I'm a traitor to the crown, too, or are we all even stevens now?

You know there's a difference between those who fought for Ireland's just independence and those who just spent the 70s and 80s running around bombing innocents and painting **** murals of snipers on the sides of community centers, don't you?

We've got hospitals and train stations named after him, for goodness sake. Behave.

[Beso]

Marxist, socialist thinker, Irish Republican. Those all do fine. Do you reckon I'm a traitor to the crown, too, or are we all even stevens now?

You know there's a difference between those who fought for Ireland's just independence and those who just spent the 70s and 80s running around bombing innocents and painting **** murals of snipers on the sides of community centers, don't you?

We've got hospitals and train stations named after him, for goodness sake. Behave.

You are correct. He was a bad example and maybe i should have said his commemorative march in edinburgh will have been attended by irish terrorists.

He wasnt a terrorist then but probably would have been one in the 70's

[Stu]

You are correct. He was a bad example and maybe i should have said his commemorative march in edinburgh will have been attended by irish terrorists.

He wasnt a terrorist then but probably would have been one in the 70's
And there's plenty of pond life on both sides, I'd concede.

S'why I'm a Quaker.

[Kizzy]

Funny there are murals of snipers in areas where the DUP are popular too...what a coincidence.

[Beso]

Thats democracy for you kizzy.

[Stu]

Genuinely saw a Bobby Sands one on the side of a chipper once. I'm guessing they didn't see the irony.

The orange crowd are hysterical though. Parade of air hostesses. Their ilk got sent up beautifully in the Trainspotting sequel. Fruit machine patriotism-as-lifestyle.

[jet]

Hang on, I thought they went on routes to retrace steps made by the marauding English invaders years ago?

If that was the case they'd be walking over the roof tops of buildings. :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

I used to love when the Orange Walk came to my town when i was little, not only was it colourful and great music it meant you could get bladdered during the day and no one cared

happy days and a great British and commonwealth tradition

[Beso]

Genuinely saw a Bobby Sands one on the side of a chipper once. I'm guessing they didn't see the irony.

The orange crowd are hysterical though. Parade of air hostesses. Their ilk got sent up beautifully in the Trainspotting sequel. Fruit machine patriotism-as-lifestyle.

Stoopid film, it was spud in the book.:fist:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Genuinely saw a Bobby Sands one on the side of a chipper once. I'm guessing they didn't see the irony.

The orange crowd are hysterical though. Parade of air hostesses. Their ilk got sent up beautifully in the Trainspotting sequel. Fruit machine patriotism-as-lifestyle.

yes that would be written by Irvine Welsh the massive republican Hibs fan/hooligan....

:laugh2:

[Stu]

yes that would be written by Irvine Welsh the massive republican Hibs fan/hooligan....

:laugh2:
Well...yeah. Characters committing actions that are hereditary to their beliefs over the course of a narrative? Be still my beating heart.

Anyway I'll bet the marches were colorful. Bias tipping ever so slightly to a particular gradient.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well...yeah. Characters committing actions that are hereditary to their beliefs over the course of a narrative? Be still my beating heart.

Anyway I'll bet the marches were colorful. Bias tipping ever so slightly to a particular gradient.

beautiful red white a blue colours as I recall

and that was just my scarf...

[Stu]

Radiant amber of that special brew can glistening, somehow, under overcast skies.

[Beso]

Radiant amber of that special brew can glistening, somehow, under overcast skies.

That would be the red bloated face. Not the can.

Edit..not lt..rangers fans in general.

[smudgie]

I used to love when the Orange Walk came to my town when i was little, not only was it colourful and great music it meant you could get bladdered during the day and no one cared

happy days and a great British and commonwealth tradition

Aye, plenty of them up North and Yorkshire.
Never been to one but my great grandad was a member of the Orange order back in his day, mind you he was a Liverpudlian by birth.

[joeysteele]

I take it you have seen them in person?

Yes, the orange marches I have always considered pointless.

I actually think they look ridiculous too strutting about.

I have seen a good few actually when my Grandmother has taken me from her home in the South to visit friends/family in the north.

Does that answer your question at all or are more likely irrelevant comments to be forthcoming from you.

[Brillopad]

You are joking, those ridiculous orange marches are pathetic.
They are used to taunt and bait Catholic resident areas and are very much a put down to the Catholic communities.

It is all well and good celebrating history, however to want to parade pompously down the opposite sides areas is in my view nothing other than provocative.

If they got present no go areas opened up to the orange marches again, it would open up doors that should have been totally sealed ages ago.

It's exactly that mindset that causes half the problems. Paranoia that believes everything is a slant against them that leads to the tit for tat attacks - as if the whole world revolves around them - It's a game for fools.

:shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's exactly that mindset that causes half the problems. Paranoia that believes everything is a slant against them that leads to the tit for tat attacks - as if the whole world revolves around them - It's a game for fools.

:shrug:

:clap1:

we need to end the hate and prejudice

and that is just on tibb

[Kizzy]

I used to love when the Orange Walk came to my town when i was little, not only was it colourful and great music it meant you could get bladdered during the day and no one cared

happy days and a great British and commonwealth tradition


I thought that was compulsory in Ireland? :hehe:

[Kizzy]

Eeep...

https://www.thecanary.co/2017/06/12/theresa-may-says-okay-friends-extremists/

[Vicky.]

Ooh sky news just said May has effectively apologized for her mess up. They said in the backbench meeting thing she said she 'got the party into this mess and will get them out of it' and that she would still be their leader as long as they want her.

Its a shame she cannot admit to the public that she made a huge error of judgement and wasted a load of money on a pointless election and that it was an attempt at a power grab from her that failed drastically. Instead she just goes on with strong and stable speeches as if it never bloody happened :D

[Jack_]

874302940680511490

Oh, so there is a magic money tree after all?

Scummy party. Truly.

[joeysteele]

Ooh sky news just said May has effectively apologized for her mess up. They said in the backbench meeting thing she said she 'got the party into this mess and will get them out of it' and that she would still be their leader as long as they want her.

Its a shame she cannot admit to the public that she made a huge error of judgement and wasted a load of money on a pointless election and that it was an attempt at a power grab from her that failed drastically. Instead she just goes on with strong and stable speeches as if it never bloody happened :D

She is just totally pathetic.
Nothing to admire about her at all.

[DemolitionRed]

874302940680511490

Oh, so there is a magic money tree after all?

Scummy party. Truly.

This is unbelievable. Its precarious being an MP. That's why its so well paid.

[user104658]

Orange March went through my. Village every year when I was a kid. All the slack-jawed old farts from the masonic lodge trotting along beating drums like cavemen. Hilarious stuff really, with their beetroot red whiskey drinkers faces... Most of the year the furthest they'd walk was from their couch to the car :joker:.

[joeysteele]

Orange March went through my. Village every year when I was a kid. All the slack-jawed old farts from the masonic lodge trotting along beating drums like cavemen. Hilarious stuff really, with their beetroot red whiskey drinkers faces... Most of the year the furthest they'd walk was from their couch to the car :joker:.

That's a perfect description of them.

[jet]

Orange March went through my. Village every year when I was a kid. All the slack-jawed old farts from the masonic lodge trotting along beating drums like cavemen. Hilarious stuff really, with their beetroot red whiskey drinkers faces... Most of the year the furthest they'd walk was from their couch to the car :joker:.

Oh dear. :laugh: Doesn't sound like much fun where you lived.
Over here the Orange and Republican marches are festival days with a lot of young lads beating the drums and crowds of girls following them hoping to get themselves a date. :hee:

[jet]

That's a perfect description of them.

Did you live in TS's village too then? :laugh:

[Vicky.]

874302940680511490

Oh, so there is a magic money tree after all?

Scummy party. Truly.

What a ****ing idiot. Totally.

[MTVN]

Presumably any financial help would come from CCHQ funds not from the public purse

[Jack_]

Of course, but it's the principal that's the issue. We'll help our cronies out but **** the disabled, we don't have a magic money tree to help them

[user104658]

Of course, but it's the principal that's the issue. We'll help our cronies out but **** the disabled, we don't have a magic money tree to help them

Indeed. Why can't they just go on the dole until they find another job? I mean, if there's two things we know about being on benefits in Britain;

1) Being on the dole is amazing, you get loads of free stuff, have loads of money and can basically do what you want. You can just spend all day buying iPads and trainers! What's the problem?

2) Getting jobs is easy, anyone who can't get a job within a couple of months of losing the last one just isn't trying hard enough.

[JTM45]

Presumably any financial help would come from CCHQ funds not from the public purse

This is the Tories we're talking about here.
Where they declare the money is coming from and where it actually ends up coming from will likely be two very different things.

[bots]

Lol so now its seen as a bad thing when MP's in a party want to help their colleagues ... this forum is hilarious

[DemolitionRed]

This is a much better style!

YQ-SaqUYJZw

[user104658]

Lol so now its seen as a bad thing when MP's in a party want to help their colleagues ... this forum is hilarious
Obviously they can do what they want with their own funds, but whining that their poor MPs will be in "financial difficulties" is an absolute joke when they've been so flippant about cutting hundreds of pounds a month from people who have to scrape together change for a loaf of bread. To be honest, if some of those MPs end up at a food bank I'd call that karma. Realistically, that's not going to happen though is it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Orange March went through my. Village every year when I was a kid. All the slack-jawed old farts from the masonic lodge trotting along beating drums like cavemen. Hilarious stuff really, with their beetroot red whiskey drinkers faces... Most of the year the furthest they'd walk was from their couch to the car :joker:.

yeah hahaha thats right TS...zzzzz

the reality is all the people from that lodge employed all the people in the village and without them your village would not exist

what nasty prejudice

wow

[user104658]

yeah hahaha thats right TS...zzzzz

the reality is all the people from that lodge employed all the people in the village and without them your village would not exist

what nasty prejudice

wow

Glasgow satellite dairy farming village, hardly anyone from the village actually worked there. It had a primary school, a post office and I believe a Spar convenience store. I don't think any of them owned the Spar :think:.

No no. These fine gentlemen liked to play bowls, drink too much Real Ale, and discuss how much they hated catholics.

[user104658]

Also, for the record, I left said prejudiced little bigotvillage when I was 18 and haven't looked back once; the country would be better off if it didn't exist. Nasty inbred little orange ****hole that it is.

[joeysteele]

Did you live in TS's village too then? :laugh:

No I say again, I saw these marches visiting the North visiting my Grandmothers friends there.
My Grandmother lived in the South.

TS I believe lives in Scotland, however I have also seen not only marches but problems from Orange order events in Glasgow.

His description of how they come across fit perfectly with mine.
They look ridiculous, like pathetic bigoted dinosaurs.

They could do a lot better totally changing the taunting and baiting attitude of said marches,especially from others following behind.

I see no point to them and the fact they want the flashpoint areas,closed to them for good reason by the way,opened again to them to march down,says all about their warped thinking and daft tradition.

History is all well and good and important to have for a Nation, constantly taunting and baiting as to it,here in the 21st century,marching around like human Toby jugs is at best outdated and frankly sickeningly pathetic.

[user104658]

human Toby jugs

:joker:

[jet]

No I say again, I saw these marches visiting the North visiting my Grandmothers friends there.
My Grandmother lived in the South.

TS I believe lives in Scotland, however I have also seen not only marches but problems from Orange order events in Glasgow.

His description of how they come across fit perfectly with mine.
They look ridiculous, like pathetic bigoted dinosaurs.

They could do a lot better totally changing the taunting and baiting attitude of said marches,especially from others following behind.

I see no point to them and the fact they want the flashpoint areas,closed to them for good reason by the way,opened again to them to march down,says all about their warped thinking and daft tradition.

History is all well and good and important to have for a Nation, constantly taunting and baiting as to it,here in the 21st century,marching around like human Toby jugs is at best outdated and frankly sickeningly pathetic.

It's attitudes like this from both sides of the divide that kept the Troubles going for so many years. I live here don't forget, and your vitriol is combative and unhelpful. Each side have their culture, their marches.
There has been contentious issues on both sides, but your unfortunate impressions are overblown. Most marches are perfectly peaceful, fun and festive occasions. Hordes of tourists wouldn't turn up to watch the marches if they were full of 'taunting and baiting'. You are referring to isolated incidents at particular sensitive times as if they happen frequently. They do not.
I agree with you about the Scottish bands that come over here to join the Orange parade - and there are many of them. I have never seen so many overweight, red faced men with massive beer - bellies in my life. Toby Jugs indeed.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's attitudes like this from both sides of the divide that kept the Troubles going for so many years. I live here don't forget, and your vitriol is combative and unhelpful. Each side have their culture, their marches.
There has been contentious issues on both sides, but your unfortunate impressions are overblown. Most marches are perfectly peaceful, fun and festive occasions. Hordes of tourists wouldn't turn up to watch the marches if they were full of 'taunting and baiting'. You are referring to isolated incidents at particular sensitive times as if they happen frequently. They do not.
I agree with you about the Scottish bands that come over here to join the Orange parade - and there are many of them. I have never seen so many overweight, red faced men with massive beer - bellies in my life. Toby Jugs indeed.

:clap2:

horrific stereotyping going on and underlying bile

disgraceful behavoir

[joeysteele]

It's attitudes like this from both sides of the divide that kept the Troubles going for so many years. I live here don't forget, and your vitriol is combative and unhelpful. Each side have their culture, their marches.
There has been contentious issues on both sides, but your unfortunate impressions are overblown. Most marches are perfectly peaceful, fun and festive occasions. Hordes of tourists wouldn't turn up to watch the marches if they were full of 'taunting and baiting'. You are referring to isolated incidents at particular sensitive times as if they happen frequently. They do not.
I agree with you about the Scottish bands that come over here to join the Orange parade - and there are many of them. I have never seen so many overweight, red faced men with massive beer - bellies in my life. Toby Jugs indeed.

You can twist things all you like jet.

I see these things as taunting and baiting exercises, which can only help re-ignite old divisions.
No matter your 'pretty' take on such events which may well be enjoyed in some places by both sides.

The fact remains,yes fact, that these marches have had to be banned down certain roads for good reasons.
If all went as you claim they do,there would be no need whatsoever for any bans to be put in place or stay in place.
They don't get banned for no reason and certainly not because they are enjoyable/peaceful as you try to make out.
However there are banned on some roads/areas,fact.

Now as to Mrs May and this thread, the DUP securing any govt of the UK with organised voting is abhorrent to me.
The DUP are a party at odds with their own Nation on many issues.
The mystery is for me why they get strong support there.

They are an extreme source and they are backed heavily by the sectarian orange order too.
There should be no place for them at all as to securing via deal any UK govt.

[jet]

You can twist things all you like jet.

I see these things as taunting and baiting exercises, which can only help re-ignite old divisions.
No matter your 'pretty' take on such events which may well be enjoyed in some places by both sides.

The fact remains,yes fact, that these marches have had to be banned down certain roads for good reasons.
If all went as you claim they do,there would be no need whatsoever for any bans to be put in place or stay in place.
They don't get banned for no reason and certainly not because they are enjoyable/peaceful as you try to make out.
However there are banned on some roads/areas,fact.

Now as to Mrs May and this thread, the DUP securing any govt of the UK with organised voting is abhorrent to me.
The DUP are a party at odds with their own Nation on many issues.
The mystery is for me why they get strong support there.

They are an extreme source and they are backed heavily by the sectarian orange order too.
There should be no place for them at all as to securing via deal any UK govt.

I already said that there were certain contentious issues relating to marches on both sides, but you ignored that. Those ‘certain roads’ you talk about are just a few areas outside of the city centre and don’t affect the main parades route - and progress has been made on both sides. I know the Orange parade which passes near to my friends family area stops playing their instruments until they have passed. That was agreed upon. Inflammatory talk like yours is of the kind which keeps the problems ongoing. People need to respect each others cultures.

The DUP are a party at odds with their own Nation on many issues.
The mystery is for me why they get strong support there.

Not really sure what you mean here. Like them or not, they were voted for democratically through the ballot box. Either you believe in democracy or you don't. The reason they get strong support is because the majority want to remain in the UK and the other main party Sinn Fein supported the IRA (and still has members of that organisation among their number) that ignored the democratic process and tried to bomb and murder their way out of the UK instead of letting the people who live here decide what they wanted democratically. The other parties are irrelevant now, so people have no choice but vote for the DUP if they want to stay in the union.

[joeysteele]

I'm not going to bother quoting that long post.
Their social policies are at odds with the people of N Ireland.
You still are harping on about Sinn Féinn and the IRA, however whether you like it or not,Sinn Féinn are a major elected party now too in N Ireland.


The DUP were also at odds with the EU vote from N.Ireland where 56% voted to remain in the EU.

I am genuinely mystified why they get so many votes,sadly they do but they should not have any sway as to the EU for the whole of the UK.
They are backed by sectarian sources the orange order and Sinn Féinn largely represent the other side.
Neither should be considered legitimate security as to supporting UK govt.
Formally or informally.

This Con govt should govern as a min govt and amend all contentious policies,seeking more consensus across parliament as a whole,as Labour had to do between Feb 74 until October.

If it falls and another election has to be,then so be it,but no deals with any sectarian parties should ever be sought.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://www.irishnews.com/picturesarchive/irishnews/irishnews/2017/06/11/193708915-aa741dce-8a9f-4c80-aa54-4f654f6796a3.jpg

[Crimson Dynamo]

“The future’s bright!” declared the Democratic Unionist Party leader ahead of the talks, while DUP MP Ian Paisley Jnr exclaimed: “The future’s orange!” in reference to the Orange Order.

:laugh2:

http://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/the-future-s-bright-dup-leader-arlene-foster-arrives-at-downing-street-to-lay-out-her-demands-a3564036.html

[jet]

I'm not going to bother quoting that long post.
Their social policies are at odds with the people of N Ireland.
You still are harping on about Sinn Féinn and the IRA, however whether you like it or not,Sinn Féinn are a major elected party now too in N Ireland.



I don't like either Sinn Fein or the DUP and have never voted for either and I think it's a shame the alternative, more moderate voices of the SDLP and UUP have effectively been silenced.

Maybe you don't understand that many Catholics also detest Sinn Fein and the IRA because they lost loved ones in the IRA's indiscriminate bombing of public areas. Did they care that their own people were being blown to smithereens? Their bombing campaign gave birth to Loyalist Paramilitaries who retaliated by seeking out innocent Catholics to shoot. Many Catholics, including myself (although I no longer see myself as 'anything') voted SDLP and would never, then or now, vote for Sinn Fein. It would be dishonouring our dead that their members, past and present, killed.

The irony is that if Sinn Fein had gone down the political, democratic route to begin with in the early 70's instead of mass murder of not just Loyalists but their own people they would have their United Ireland by now democratically. There isn't a huge difference between Nationalist and Loyalist numbers now in voting terms but so many Catholics refrain from voting for them.

[Northern Monkey]

Would this DUP/Tories thing even work?
I've been hearing that they're opposed to the Tories on quite alot.
They have unfashionable views on Gay marriage and abortion,They want rid of the bedroom tax,They're against removing the triple lock on pensions,They're against means testing winter fuel payments,They're against a 'hard Brexit' and don't want austerity.

Seems like a total disaster.
The DUP seem actually nothing like the Tories.
So the Tories would basically have to give up on their manifesto?

[bots]

Would this DUP/Tories thing even work?
I've been hearing that they're opposed to the Tories on quite alot.
They have unfashionable views on Gay marriage and abortion,They want rid of the bedroom tax,They're against removing the triple lock on pensions,They're against means testing winter fuel payments,They're against a 'hard Brexit' and don't want austerity.

Seems like a total disaster.
The DUP seem actually nothing like the Tories.
So the Tories would basically have to give up on their manifesto?

That's just not how things work. The controversial elements of the tory manifesto were bound to get ditched in a minority situation. What they will concentrate on is the areas that they do agree on and focus on putting them through, and there is plenty content there. This is after all the first session in a 5 year term that the manifesto covered.

There will be more than enough common ground that they can agree upon for a couple of years, and at the moment, that's all that matters.

[VanessaFeltz.]

DUP Percentage 28.1% Popular vote 225,413
Sin Fein Percentage 27.9% Popular vote 224,245

both of them barely got 1/4 of the votes

[MTVN]

The DUP have the sense to realise that they have a once in a generation chance to have a meaningful role in Westminster government so they won't risk that by making unreasonable demands or trying to get the Tories to shelve too much of their manifesto. Things like gay marriage, abortion and a lot of other social issues are devolved matters for the Northern Irish assembly so won't be a part of any agreement.

[Tom4784]

Would this DUP/Tories thing even work?
I've been hearing that they're opposed to the Tories on quite alot.
They have unfashionable views on Gay marriage and abortion,They want rid of the bedroom tax,They're against removing the triple lock on pensions,They're against means testing winter fuel payments,They're against a 'hard Brexit' and don't want austerity.

Seems like a total disaster.
The DUP seem actually nothing like the Tories.
So the Tories would basically have to give up on their manifesto?

The Tories need them more than they need the Tories too so it won't be like the last Coalition where the Lib Dems were forced to lick the Tories' boots to stay relevant. The DUP will gladly tell them to **** off which means the Tories will have to make concessions to the DUP which is just bad news for everyone.

Here's hoping that predicted election towards the end of the year becomes a reality.

[MTVN]

DUP Percentage 28.1% Popular vote 225,413
Sin Fein Percentage 27.9% Popular vote 224,245

both of them barely got 1/4 of the votes

Those figures aren't from this election, the DUP had 36% of the vote and Sinn Fein 29.4%

I think those are the figures from the Northern Ireland Assembly election that you're quoting

[VanessaFeltz.]

Those figures aren't from this election, the DUP had 36% of the vote and Sinn Fein 29.4%

I think those are the figures from the Northern Ireland Assembly election that you're quoting

oh yes you are right. I still dont think either of these parties represent the whole NI because there are lots of parties that gathered high amount of votes.

[VanessaFeltz.]

But i am just saying it by looking at the numbers i am not that well informed about the politics of NI

[jet]

oh yes you are right. I still dont think either of these parties represent the whole NI because there are lots of parties that gathered high amount of votes.

The other parties did dismally this election unfortunately.

[JTM45]

The fact that the Tories are even considering getting involved with this lot is extremely worrying!
If Labour were teaming up with Sinn Fein you lot would be screaming your heads off but the DUP have very close links with Terrorists (the UDA) and even have an Armed Robber amongst their ranks!
The DUP have already said that they're going to expect the marches to be brought back and the fact that it will mean that the UK Government are no longer impartial will put the entire peace treaty at risk.
Sheer desperate insanity!!!!

[Kizzy]

They know they have the tories by the short and curlies... if they withdraw support may knows its all over for her. They are in a very strong bargaining position, and they are already asking for things that will mean the good friday agreement is null and void.

Check mate Well played jez :)

[Brillopad]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/left-demonising-dup-will-never-let-jeremy-corbyn-get-power/

Interesting article that really says it all about Corbyn supporters and their way OTT vitriol.

As I have said previously sheer bluster and bravado.

What a great image of British youth. They look more like a bunch of thugs to me.

[Withano]

The bloody left demonising homophobia, facism, and anti-women rights. Just let them dictate because democracy :fist:

[Firewire]

No we're demonising the DUP because it is a fascist party that has no good being in power

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yep I have been astounded by the hate on here at a democraticly elected party. I feel sorry for any members from NI that they have had to put up with it.

Sickening

[MB.]

They look more like a bunch of thugs to me.

And right there you've summed up the DUP in a nutshell

[Withano]

Can you paste the full article Brillo. You've read it, right? Others cant read it unless they're subscribed to the website, which you deffo are, right?

[MB.]

Yep I have been astounded by the hate on here at a democraticly elected party. I feel sorry for any members from NI that they have had to put up with it.

Sickening

You appear to be confusing democracy with immunity from criticism, which is kind of the opposite

[MTVN]

We already have a thread on the DUP-Tory discussions so I've merged the two rather than have a new thread just for one article

[bots]

No we're demonising the DUP because it is a fascist party that has no good being in power

Well, those that voted for labour forced it to happen, so no point blaming anyone else :shrug:

[Novo]

Yep I have been astounded by the hate on here at a democraticly elected party. I feel sorry for any members from NI that they have had to put up with it.

Sickening

Build my Gallows for new National Anthem LT? Make the Liberals stand and applaud democracy in all its glory

[MB.]

Well, those that voted for labour forced it to happen, so no point blaming anyone else :shrug:

Funnily enough, I don't recall "Labour + the DUP" being on my ballot paper... are you saying that our only option to avoid a Tory/DUP coalition was to vote Tory? Yes, that sounds wonderfully fair :think:

[Crimson Dynamo]

You appear to be confusing democracy with immunity from criticism, which is kind of the opposite

Incorrect. I am pretty sure that I can distinguish between criticism and sheer prejudice based on arrogance and hate

[Brillopad]

And right there you've summed up the DUP in a nutshell

Nope just the intellectual Labour youth. A picture tells a thousand words.

[Brillopad]

Can you paste the full article Brillo. You've read it, right? Others cant read it unless they're subscribed to the website, which you deffo are, right?

It appeared as the full article when I posted it. Unfortunately it is not the case now for those have not subscribed. Not much I can do about that.

[Withano]

Well, those that voted for labour forced it to happen, so no point blaming anyone else :shrug:

Those who voted for a party that would even consider the fascist cluster**** could be a good place to start :umm2:

[Withano]

It appeared as the full article when I posted it. Unfortunately it is not the case now for those have not subscribed. Not much I can do about that.

Mhmm convenient.

[Jack_]

Those who voted for a party that would even consider the fascist cluster**** could be a good place to start :umm2:

Don't be silly, the last seven weeks have taught us that The Casino Party can do no wrong.

[Brillopad]

Mhmm convenient.

Anyone can subscribe for free for one article a week. There you go with the usual paranoia and attempts to undermine. The article is there and like anything of quality it costs - in money or effort.

It certainly exposes the left for the total hypocrites they are and the reasons for their hysteria. Great article! Read or not - no skin off my nose.

[JTM45]

Yep, as i thought, the Right-wingers who clung to the BS ''Terrorist Sympatizer'' thing like a life-jacket on The Titanic have no real justification of the Tories being that desperate to get into bed with a neo-fascist hate Party who supported terrorists and unappologetically employ Armed Robber thugs.

I obviously missed the small-print that explained why the Tories shouldn't have to be held accountable for their behaviour and standards ofdecency like Labour and Corbyn constantly are (even if that means misconstruing/misreprersenting facts).

[bots]

Yep, as i thought, the Right-wingers who clung to the BS ''Terrorist Sympatizer'' thing like a life-jacket on The Titanic have no real justification of the Tories being that desperate to get into bed with a neo-fascist hate Party who supported terrorists and unappologetically employ Armed Robber thugs.

I obviously missed the small-print that explained why the Tories shouldn't have to be held accountable for their behaviour and standards ofdecency like Labour and Corbyn constantly are (even if that means misconstruing/misreprersenting facts).

Thats just complete rubbish. These are democratically elected MP's that have been representing their constituencies for many years at Westminster. The only point that anyone has said anything against them is now, when they are supporting a party labour don't agree with.

As democratically elected MP's they are as entitled as anyone to vote for whatever they wish. That is democracy

[JTM45]

As democratically elected MP's they are as entitled as anyone to vote for whatever they wish. That is democracy

I'm sure in the 'Big Book of Democracy' it doesn't just say ''MP's can vote for whatever they wish''.:laugh:

''Please Sir..............can i vote for Marshmallow Elephants ?''.........''No ?''.........''but the democracy expert on TIBB said i could vote for whatever i wish''.:laugh3:

I'm sure next time there's a big political question doing the rounds people will be knocking your door down.

[Brillopad]

Thats just complete rubbish. These are democratically elected MP's that have been representing their constituencies for many years at Westminster. The only point that anyone has said anything against them is now, when they are supporting a party labour don't agree with.

As democratically elected MP's they are as entitled as anyone to vote for whatever they wish. That is democracy

I seem to Remember several on here stating that Sinn Fein were a legitimate political party now when they were called terrorists. That only works one way apparently.

[jet]

Yep, as i thought, the Right-wingers who clung to the BS ''Terrorist Sympatizer'' thing like a life-jacket on The Titanic have no real justification of the Tories being that desperate to get into bed with a neo-fascist hate Party who supported terrorists and unappologetically employ Armed Robber thugs.

I obviously missed the small-print that explained why the Tories shouldn't have to be held accountable for their behaviour and standards ofdecency like Labour and Corbyn constantly are (even if that means misconstruing/misreprersenting facts).

:laugh: You clearly need to do a lot of research.

[JTM45]

:laugh: You clearly need to do a lot of research.

As do you..............clearly.

But it's much easier and less time consuming to entirely rebuff rather than make actual points about actual things you deem incorrect or false isn't it. :wavey:

[jet]

I seem to Remember several on here stating that Sinn Fein were a legitimate political party now when they were called terrorists. That only works one way apparently.

Yep. There are IRA murderers in Sinn Fein to this day, as in the past. Murderers who were released from prison by the Labour Gov. in a shady deal as part of the Good Friday Agreement. There were Loyalist murderers released too, but they were certainly not welcomed into the DUP. That's why the present Gov. can do business with them, and never with Sinn Fein - not even a Labour Gov. could get away with that, although Labour did try to get the DUP on side on several occasions in the past. lol

[jet]

As do you..............clearly.

But it's much easier and less time consuming to entirely rebuff rather than make actual points about actual things you deem incorrect or false isn't it. :wavey:

I've made plenty of points in the last few days, I'm all pointed out. My posts are available to search if you wish.

[jet]

Can you paste the full article Brillo. You've read it, right? Others cant read it unless they're subscribed to the website, which you deffo are, right?

I got nosy, so here it is...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/13/left-demonising-dup-will-never-let-jeremy-corbyn-get-power/

The election result was rather exciting for Jeremy Corbyn and his followers. "We are ready to serve this country," he promptly announced. The Labour leader's supporters have been boasting of how he oversaw the party's biggest increase in vote share since 1945. This gave Emily Thornberry the licence to dismiss suggestions that the party had lost the election, declaring on Sky News magisterially: "No, I don’t think that we did".

Yet those swept up by this collective delirium will have found it hard to escape the conclusion this week on seeing Theresa May in Downing Street reshuffling her cabinet that Labour had not actually won. Corbynistas may feel their time in office has come, but have been forced to accept reality on looking at the electoral landscape.

The Conservatives picked up 55 more seats than Labour, meaning that Mrs May only need to work with her "friends and allies in the Democratic Unionist party" to have a majority in the Commons. Even if Jeremy Corbyn teamed up with the SNP, Liberal Democrats, Plaid Cymru and the Greens, his 314-strong "progressive alliance" would not be big enough – and it would still be out-numbered by the Tories's 317 MPs alone.

Corbynistas have never come this close to power, so falling at the final hurdle – last week's general election – will have been hard for them. They have decided that the best way to get over their disappointment is to take it out on the DUP for cementing the Tories' grip in power.

The vitriol from the Left has come thick and fast. Owen Jones called them "gay-hating, anti-choice terrorist-sympathisers". "They have nothing to bring to a modern body politic," Zoe Williams opined. "The DUP are the closest thing we have in this country to institutional religious extremism, all ancient hatreds and bigotries so dated it is like arguing with the past."

Tempting as it may be for them to stick it to Mrs May's new allies, they have forgotten two things. First, the Tories aren't looking to draft the DUP into Government; they just want their backing to get business done in the Commons on key areas like Brexit. They aren't so much "jumping into bed" with the DUP as sleeping in separate beds but occasionally having dinner together.

Second, Labour was more than happy to talk to the DUP about how they could work together in past elections. Gordon Brown was reported by US officials in 2010 to be "doing whatever he can to hold on to power", a process which required one of his cabinet ministers to work on an "economic package for Northern Ireland to win support from the DUP... for Labour".

Labour tried again to woo the DUP in 2015, one of its MPs Ian Paisley has said, although such a prospect will have been snuffed out as soon as David Cameron's surprise majority became clear.

That hasn't stopped Labour from trying to stir the pot. The party has wheeled out grandees – former Northern Ireland secretaries Peter Hain, Shaun Woodward and Peter Mandelson – to accuse Mrs May of putting the peace process at risk by working with the DUP. "London is no longer an honest broker," Mr Hain declared portentously.

In Mr Hain's view, the Conservatives have crippled their ability to be do business in Northern Ireland by allying with unionists. Mrs May has already said that her party make clear in their manifesto that Northern Ireland should remain part of the United Kingdom, so why is it a shock that the Tories prefer to talk to the DUP rather than Sinn Fein?

Tony Blair managed to work on the peace process as Prime Minister despite the fact that the SDLP – Labour's sister party – were active in Northern Ireland. His Government sent letters to more than 200 "on-the-run" IRA suspects after the Good Friday Agreement granting them immunity from criminal prosecution, yet Mr Hain and his colleagues decided not to express public concerns – like they do now – about how neutral this left London looking.

Moreover, the Democratic Unionist Party's decision will be more than happy to support Mrs May's administration because it ensures Jeremy Corbyn is shut out of power. "For as long as you allow yourselves to be led by an IRA cheerleader, you exclude yourselves from entering No 10," a party source told the Guardian. Party leader Arlene Foster survived an IRA bomb on her school bus and was only eight when they tried to kill her father, so she would not look kindly on his past coziness to its members.

Labour has previously been happy to do business with the DUP, but now finds itself frozen out due to Mr Corbyn. This should give the Left cause for thought, but his followers have decided it is much easier to pay the DUP back by demonising them for deciding to help the largest party get business done in Government.

The Corbynistas' decision to respond with name-calling, rather than by asking themselves tough questions about their leader, shows why they will remain too immature for power.

[JTM45]

I've made plenty of points in the last few days, I'm all pointed out.

Theresa.............is that you ? :laugh:

That 'article' is the kind of thing i'd expect Brillo to trot out as irrefutable evidence (rather than the blatantly biased and fact-light coddswallop it actually is). What's that ? Oh....she did ? I was not aware of that.:idc:

[jet]

Theresa.............is that you ? :laugh:

That 'article' is the kind of thing i'd expect Brillo to trot out as irrefutable evidence (rather than the blatantly biased and fact-light coddswallop it actually is). What's that ? Oh....she did ? I was not aware of that.:idc:

Another "I didn't like what I read, so it's not true" merchant. :bawling::bawling:
:joker:

[JTM45]

Another "I didn't like what I read, so it's not true" merchant. :bawling::bawling:
:joker:

No. It's more a case of it not being hard to see blatant bias and desperate agenda from a mile off and that kind of **** doesn't pass for good journalism (or even actual journalism) with me.
If you're gonna' link/quote something because you can't make the point yourself you've gotta' make sure that the content of what you're quoting/linking to is actually credible. That 'article' wasn't even slightly.

What's that ?
But....but Hillary..... :bawling:

[jet]

No. It's more a case of it not being hard to see blatant bias and desperate agenda from a mile off and that kind of **** doesn't pass for good journalism (or even actual journalism) with me.
If you're gonna' link/quote something because you can't make the point yourself you've gotta' make sure that the content of what you're quoting/linking to is actually credible. That 'article' wasn't even slightly.

What's that ?
But....but Hillary..... :bawling:

Trump.....is that you? You didn't like that article? What's that you say? "FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS"?! :laugh:

[JTM45]

Trump.....is that you? You didn't like that article? What's that you say? "FAKE NEWS, FAKE NEWS"?! :laugh:

When faced with reason and facts do you always just re-post your same already debunked accusation with a slightly (very slightly) different flavour ?

Do you really think that 'article' is an un-biased piece of sound journalism ?

[bots]

When faced with reason and facts do you always just re-post your same already debunked accusation with a slightly (very slightly) different flavour ?

Do you really think that 'article' is an un-biased piece of sound journalism ?

yes, it is

[JTM45]

yes, it is

Then your opinion can never be taken seriously because my 5 year-old niece would be able to read that and tell you it was biased.

It isn't even pretending to be an un-biased view FFS!!!!:joker:

[Brillopad]

No. It's more a case of it not being hard to see blatant bias and desperate agenda from a mile off and that kind of **** doesn't pass for good journalism (or even actual journalism) with me.
If you're gonna' link/quote something because you can't make the point yourself you've gotta' make sure that the content of what you're quoting/linking to is actually credible. That 'article' wasn't even slightly.

What's that ?
But....but Hillary..... :bawling:

Oops thought you were talking about Corbynites again, silly me. :hee:

[joeysteele]

Thats just complete rubbish. These are democratically elected MP's that have been representing their constituencies for many years at Westminster. The only point that anyone has said anything against them is now, when they are supporting a party labour don't agree with.

As democratically elected MP's they are as entitled as anyone to vote for whatever they wish. That is democracy

Not so actually.
I have regularly on here even called the DUP poodles as to the Cons,they do normally vote with them.

Which makes this forming any deal with them worse, a deal taking a fair while to work out,so what are the DUP demanding for a more secured voting pattern.
More to the point,will we really get the whole details,small print too of whatever deal it is finally.

The Cons could have taken their chance,without DUP votes the opposition parties could not defeat the Cons in parliament anyway.
So they could govern for a time as a minority govt.

10 more votes from the DUP will not enhance that majority that much.
We should and must be told what exactly and all the DUP are demanding and what the Cons are giving them.

My objection to this 'joining up' more securely is that no government should be doing so with any clearly known sectarian parties which the DUP are.
That is the issue for me and I would not trust the DUP in any way at all.
Neither Sinn Féinn too,another sectarian party.

It speaks volumes that this Party,the Cons who were just in full coalition with the Lib Dems under 3 years ago,are now even more apart from agreements with a party like that.
They now have to crawl to a more extreme party,a sectarian party and one that although democratically elected to Westminster so can vote how it wishes, should not have any secured deal made with them for votes.

That is my and I am sure many others objections to any 'firm arrangement' between any UK government and the DUP.

[Brillopad]

Not so actually.
I have regularly on here even called the DUP poodles as to the Cons,they do normally vote with them.

Which makes this forming any deal with them worse, a deal taking a fair while to work out,so what are the DUP demanding for a more secured voting pattern.
More to the point,will we really get the whole details,small print too of whatever deal it is finally.

The Cons could have taken their chance,without DUP votes the opposition parties could not defeat the Cons in parliament anyway.
So they could govern for a time as a minority govt.

10 more votes from the DUP will not enhance that majority that much.
We should and must be told what exactly and all the DUP are demanding and what the Cons are giving them.

My objection to this 'joining up' more securely is that no government should be doing so with any clearly known sectarian parties which the DUP are.
That is the issue for me and I would not trust the DUP in any way at all.
Neither Sinn Féinn too,another sectarian party.

It speaks volumes that this Party,the Cons who were just in full coalition with the Lib Dems under 3 years ago,are now even more apart from agreements with a party like that.
They now have to crawl to a more extreme party,a sectarian party and one that although democratically elected to Westminster so can vote how it wishes, should not have any secured deal made with them for votes.

That is my and I am sure many others objections to any 'firm arrangement' between any UK government and the DUP.


The DUP will have no say in English legislation - they will not be part of government. Corbynites are totally transparent in their dishonesty and hysteria regarding the alliance as it stands in the way of them getting their mits on the power. No more complicated than that.

[user104658]

Starting to wonder if Tory supporters actually understand that others are celebrating the massive losses and the hilarious back-firing of the party's arrogance... it's not that anyone doesn't realise that the Tories are still in power :think:

"People are liek ha ha Tories BUT dey will not be able to 4 long bcus luk Theresa May is still PM so ha ha ha we won we won!"


No. The Tories made a gamble - that calling an election would increase their majority and give them a more solid grip on power - and after that gamble, they had fewer MPs, lost their majority completely, and thus have less power.

Take other parties and who is still PM out of the equation; look at it as a standalone action.

- The Tories had a slim majority.
- They believed that their support was growing exponentially and they were essentially unchallenged.
- They believed that opposition was at an all time low
- So they called an election, gambling on what they thought was a sure thing; an increased majority.
- They lost seats
- They no longer have a majority
- They have less than what they had before the gamble

There's not really any two ways about it. Regardless of whether or not Labour "won" in any way - the Tories lost. They lost against themselves... they lost their own gamble. How can anyone possibly argue that this isn't true?

[user104658]

The DUP will have no say in English legislation - they will not be part of government. Corbynites are totally transparent in their dishonesty and hysteria regarding the alliance as it stands in the way of them getting their mits on the power. No more complicated than that.

Let me ask Brillo... ... ... why do you think it's taking so long for the DUP and the Tories to reach a deal?

[Kizzy]

Thats just complete rubbish. These are democratically elected MP's that have been representing their constituencies for many years at Westminster. The only point that anyone has said anything against them is now, when they are supporting a party labour don't agree with.

As democratically elected MP's they are as entitled as anyone to vote for whatever they wish. That is democracy

They may be elected MPs but can you not see the hypocrisy of accusing Corbyn of being a terrorist sympathizer and the DUP being allowed in positions of power with their undeniable connections to violent extremists?

[Brillopad]

Let me ask Brillo... ... ... why do you think it's taking so long for the DUP and the Tories to reach a deal?

As I am not privy to the talks that would be difficult for me to say, but I would imagine issues such as the Irish/English border and billions for the Irish economy and whatever other demands made but they will not be stripping away female equality or any other such hysterical nonsense in England.

[bots]

They may be elected MPs but can you not see the hypocrisy of accusing Corbyn of being a terrorist sympathizer and the DUP being allowed in positions of power with their undeniable connections to violent extremists?

Its not hypocrisy at all, the things are not comparable in any way shape or form, and its ludicrous to suggest that they are

[user104658]

As I am not privy to the talks that would be difficult for me to say, but I would imagine issues such as the Irish/English border and billions for the Irish economy and whatever other demands made but they will not be stripping away female equality or any other such hysterical nonsense in England.

So you agree that they know fine well that they have the Conservatives over a barrel and they have demonstrated that they are more than willing to exploit their position? For whatever reason.

[joeysteele]

Let me ask Brillo... ... ... why do you think it's taking so long for the DUP and the Tories to reach a deal?

Exactly.

It is stated often the DUP vote with the Cons anyway.
What is taking so long to 'negotitate' to ensure that will be done more regularly and securely.

Also the Cons still have to get things for England and Wales passed in the commons.
We don't yet have an English only assembly.

The English votes rule means that English MPs can veto legislation but in the end to become law,it must pass the Commons and Lords.
So with the Cons presently having more English MPs,the veto is irrelevant, it is the legislation through the commons in parliament that matters.
Also remember now too,the Cons have to rely on 13 Scottish MPs of their own to get parliamentary legislation through.

Making the English votes veto rule all but redundant anyway.

[Brillopad]

They may be elected MPs but can you not see the hypocrisy of accusing Corbyn of being a terrorist sympathizer and the DUP being allowed in positions of power with their undeniable connections to violent extremists?

If you really believe what you say then shouldn't your concerns lie with how any and all organisations who have ever had any links to any kind of terrorism are ever allowed to form a political party. It has to be all or nothing.

We all know if Labour forming an alliance with Sinn Fein was the only option to win power both him and his Corbynites would have had no issues with that.

[bots]

Let me ask Brillo... ... ... why do you think it's taking so long for the DUP and the Tories to reach a deal?

Here are the areas of legislation we intend to address over the coming 5 years.

What areas of this particular piece of legislation can you support, and which ones can you not. If you cant support it, it doesnt get added to the timetable.

Nothing controversial, but still time consuming.

People just want to take issue, its so negative, and goes against keeping positive as Corbyn was so busy championing during the campaign.

I guess i am not particularly surprised that people don't see the hypocrisy in that.

[Brillopad]

So you agree that they know fine well that they have the Conservatives over a barrel and they have demonstrated that they are more than willing to exploit their position? For whatever reason.

Anyone in that position will TRY to use it to their advantage. But let's not forget the last thing the DUP want is a labour government. That alone is motive enough to support the tories at the end of the day.

[user104658]

Here are the areas of legislation we intend to address over the coming 5 years.

What areas of this particular piece of legislation can you support, and which ones can you not. If you cant support it, it doesnt get added to the timetable.

Nothing controversial, but still time consuming.

People just want to take issue, its so negative, and goes against keeping positive as Corbyn was so busy championing during the campaign.

I guess i am not particularly surprised that people don't see the hypocrisy in that.

People want to take issue with the Conservatives having to be supported by the DUP because... it is an issue. I'd say it's more a case of certain people wanting to put their fingers in their ears and pretend that it's "just fine" when it is quite clearly very very messy and there are going to be a LOT of issues in the upcoming parliament.

[MTVN]

I think the deal has largely been agreed now they're just going over the final points. Sounds like it might be delayed now though because they don't want to be carrying out talks while the fire is still going on

[joeysteele]

Here are the areas of legislation we intend to address over the coming 5 years.

What areas of this particular piece of legislation can you support, and which ones can you not. If you cant support it, it doesnt get added to the timetable.

Nothing controversial, but still time consuming.

People just want to take issue, its so negative, and goes against keeping positive as Corbyn was so busy championing during the campaign.

I guess i am not particularly surprised that people don't see the hypocrisy in that.

...... except according to you and others the DUP usually vote with the Cons anyway, and have in the last 7 years,so would likely be doing so still.

Back again to what are the DUP demanding and what is this govt going to give them in return.
Can you actually guarantee the DUP are not asking for anything or will get anything.

[jet]

They may be elected MPs but can you not see the hypocrisy of accusing Corbyn of being a terrorist sympathizer and the DUP being allowed in positions of power with their undeniable connections to violent extremists?

Their connections to extremists are in no way comparable at all. If you were well educated on these issues you would know that. It's not that long ago that we were engaged in a discussion on Martin McGuiness and you were defending him all over the show.
If you are worried about the DUP having extremist connections, then why on earth do you idolise Corbyn? THAT is just undiluted hypocrisy.

[Brillopad]

Their connections to extremists are in no way comparable at all. If you were well educated on these issues you would know that. It's not that long ago that we were engaged in a discussion on Martin McGuiness and you were defending him all over the show.
If you are worried about the DUP having extremist connections, then why on earth do you idolise Corbyn? THAT is just undiluted hypocrisy.

I couldn't agree more Jet. I don't think it is about a terrorist - but what terrorist.

[Brillopad]

...... except according to you and others the DUP usually vote with the Cons anyway, and have in the last 7 years,so would likely be doing so still.

Back again to what are the DUP demanding and what is this govt going to give them in return.
Can you actually guarantee the DUP are not asking for anything or will get anything.

Can you gurantee the Same of Corbyn if in an alliance with others? He can't rule on his own - he has no majority.

[Jack_]

He can't rule on his own - he has no majority.

I don't know how many times I have to point this out before you get it, but this isn't actually true.

If for whatever reason the Conservatives cannot get a Queen's Speech passed, or lose a vote of no confidence, then as the leader of the opposition Jeremy Corbyn is invited to attempt to form a government. In such a situation, all he would need is for the Tories to abstain on crucial votes to get legislation passed...and if they didn't, they'd be staring another election in the face which none of them want. In theory, one MP can govern alone so long as every other MP doesn't vote against them. Which is also why the Tories don't absolutely need to depend on a deal with the DUP, they already have more MPs than all the left-of-centre parties put together, and could govern as a minority so long as there weren't many rebels.

Is this likely? No. But is it impossible? No. All it would take is for a handful of rebel Tories to not vote through supply and confidence motions, and they fall.

[Brillopad]

I don't know how many times I have to point this out before you get it, but this isn't actually true.

If for whatever reason the Conservatives cannot get a Queen's Speech passed, or lose a vote of no confidence, then as the leader of the opposition Jeremy Corbyn is invited to attempt to form a government. In such a situation, all he would need is for the Tories to abstain on crucial votes to get legislation passed...and if they didn't, they'd be staring another election in the face which none of them want. In theory, one MP can govern alone so long as every other MP doesn't vote against them. Which is also why the Tories don't absolutely need to depend on a deal with the DUP, they already have more MPs than all the left-of-centre parties put together, and could govern as a minority so long as there weren't many rebels.

Is this likely? No. But is it impossible? No. All it would take is for a handful of rebel Tories to not vote through supply and confidence motions, and they fall.

So can the tories. I see no valid reason why she would not get the queen speech passed or not get a vote of confidence. Corbynites are crossing everything, fingers, toes ... you name it, in that vague hope and over-estimating the chances. What is it they call that now ..... oh I know WISHFUL THINKING!

[Jack_]

In other news:

John Major: Tory-DUP deal risks jeopardising Northern Ireland peace

Former PM warns Theresa May against seeking alliance with unionist party as its leader says negotiations going well

Theresa May has been warned by Sir John Major that striking a deal with the Democratic Unionist party could put the “fragile peace” in Northern Ireland at risk.

The former Conservative prime minister said a deal with Arlene Foster’s party could risk alienating armed republicans and loyalists, and cause resentment in other parts of the UK if the government made promises to spend large amounts of public money.

The intervention by Major, who also called for a more collegiate approach to Brexit, came as May held talks with Foster. It will be seen as deeply unsettling for the prime minister.

On Tuesday afternoon, Foster indicated a deal to support the Conservative minority government was close to being finalised.

She also gave a glimpse into the issues upon the table, saying Brexit, counter-terrorism and “doing what’s right” for the Northern Ireland economy were among the key issues being thrashed out.

Discussions in Westminster continued without May after she left for Paris for a meeting with the French president, Emmanuel Macron.

Major told BBC Radio 4’s the World at One that he felt May should try to run a minority government rather than seek the planned loose alliance with the DUP.

“I am concerned about the deal, I am wary about it, I am dubious about it, both for peace process reasons but also for other reasons as well,” he said, warning that if peace unravelled, Northern Ireland’s “hard men” could return to violence.

Major, who as prime minister was central to the start of the peace process in the 1990s, said an alliance with the DUP would jeopardise the UK government’s crucial role as an “honest broker” in Northern Ireland where power-sharing talks remain unresolved.

“People shouldn’t regard it as a given,” he said of peace in Northern Ireland. “It isn’t certain, it is under stress. It is fragile. And although I don’t expect it suddenly to collapse – because there is a broad consensus that wishes it to continue – I think we have to take care with it, and take care that everything we do does not exaggerate the underlying differences that still are there in the Northern Ireland community.”

Saying he supported May and could understand why she sought the DUP deal, Major argued it was a mistake.

“A fundamental part of that peace process is that the UK government needs to be impartial between all the competing interests in Northern Ireland,” he said. “The danger is that however much any government tries, they will not be seen to be impartial if they are locked into a parliamentary deal, at Westminster, with one of the Northern Ireland parties.

“The last thing anybody wishes to see is one or other of the communities so aggrieved that the hard men, who are still there lurking in the corners of the community, decide that they wish to return to some form of violence.”

Major also warned against the “baggage” of a deal, not least the DUP seeking extra funding for Northern Ireland, and the potential resentment this could cause among voters in other parts of the UK.

“That is going to cause a great degree of grievance elsewhere,” he warned. “They would see it as the government paying cash for votes in parliament, and in doing so I think that could well cost votes in the country for the Conservative party, by the bucketload, at a subsequent election.”

Major said he was aware there was no appetite for another general election, and suggested May could seek to govern as a minority, noting that her opponents would only have “a tiny majority in the event that everybody lined up against her”.

The talks followed the first meeting of May’s slightly reshuffled cabinet since the election in which she lost her majority.

Foster, alongside MPs Jeffrey Donaldson and Nigel Dodds, has led negotiations for the DUP, while chief whip Gavin Williamson has led for the Tories.

A failure to gain support from the Northern Irish party would risk the Queen’s speech being voted down next week.

Sinn Féin has warned such moves undermine power-sharing talks in Northern Ireland.

Lord Trimble, the former Ulster Unionist first minister of Northern Ireland from 1998 to 2002, said the DUP were also putting their political future at risk by striking a deal because they could be blamed for unpopular Tory policies.

However, he denies Major’s claims that the Good Friday agreement was at risk, saying: “I think there is a fair amount of scaremongering going on.”

In the Commons, Jeremy Corbyn turned May’s election slogan against her, saying that any deal with the DUP would be a “coalition of chaos”.

A Downing Street spokeswoman said ministers “discussed the ongoing talks with the DUP to secure a confidence and supply arrangement”.

The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/13/john-major-tory-dup-deal-could-jeopardise-northern-ireland-peace)

Incidentally Major also warned last year about the NHS being unsafe in Johnson, Gove and Duncan Smith's hands (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/john-major-nhs-risk-brexit-pythons-johnson-and-gove). Is he one of only a few Tories with a conscience?

[Jack_]

So can the tories. I see no valid reason why she would not get the queen speech passed or not get a vote of confidence. Corbynites are crossing everything, fingers, toes ... you name it, in that vague hope and over-estimating the chances. What is it they call that now ..... oh I know WISHFUL THINKING!

Calm down love. 'So can the Tories' what? Govern as a minority? That's precisely what I said. And what wishful thinking? Did you not see the part of my post where I specifically said I don't think this is likely? I've been saying the same in several threads over the last few days. Honestly, does anyone on here read posts before they respond to them? All I'm pointing out is your inaccuracy in saying that Labour could not under the parliamentary arithmetic form a government, because it seems a lot of people don't actually understand how hung parliaments work.

The Queen's Speech will pass, but don't underestimate the number of moderate Tory backbenchers who are going to make this parliament as difficult as possible for the PM, particularly in attempting to water down her vision of Brexit (which the DUP also don't support, btw). If you think this is all going to be plain sailing, you're kidding yourself.

[Brillopad]

In other news:



The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/13/john-major-tory-dup-deal-could-jeopardise-northern-ireland-peace)

Incidentally Major also warned last year about the NHS being unsafe in Johnson, Gove and Duncan Smith's hands (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/jun/05/john-major-nhs-risk-brexit-pythons-johnson-and-gove). Is he one of only a few Tories with a conscience?

Here we go!

Are the DUP and Sinn Fein political parties or not. If those in their wisdom decided that those involved or in support of previous terrorist acts could form a political party as part of the peace process then why would they be treated differently to any other political party in this situation and would such discrimination not be an abuse of that agreement. Were they just being placated then?

Should any issues of potential impartiality in a government alliance not have been thought about and addressed at that time. It seems pretty obvious really. People can't then turn around and scream that such an alliance would affect the peace process after the horse has bolted so to speak. May cannot and should not be penalised for the mistakes of others.

It isn't May's fault if those involved in the Good Friday Agreement were incompetent and didn't think ahead. This is an issue that should have come to light decades ago - pretty convenient that it is suddenly an issue now that a desperate and biligerent Labour and remainers are out to get May.

It all stinks and such blatant desperate hounding should not be pandered to.

[jet]

Tory-DUP deal announcement put on hold due to London blaze.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jun/14/tory-dup-deal-announcement-put-on-hold-due-to-london-blaze

Sources suggest it would be inappropriate to make formal announcement because of unfolding tragedy at Grenfell Tower


A deal between the government and the Democratic Unionist party will be delayed because of the calamitous fire that has engulfed a tower block in west London.

Westminster sources have suggested it would be inappropriate to make a formal announcement because of the unfolding tragedy at Grenfell Tower.

Theresa May needs the votes of the 10 DUP MPs to prop up her minority administration as she hopes to steer government business – including crucial measures on Brexit – through the Commons.

Reports suggested that the Queen’s speech and Brexit negotiations could be delayed as a result. However, sources close to the talks said that while the discussions were “stuttering”, 95% had been agreed between both sides, meaning the deal could still be announced in time to allow the Queens’s speech on Monday.

Both sides had hoped that a deal would be announced on Wednesday. The DUP’s leader, Arlene Foster, and MPs Nigel Dodds and Jeffrey Donaldson, have been locked in talks in Westminster for two days with senior Tories including the chief whip, Gavin Williamson.

Meanwhile, Downing Street has announced that representatives from all five of Northern Ireland’s main parties have been invited to meet the prime minister on Thursday. A source said: “The focus will be on restoring devolved government to Northern Ireland as soon as possible.”

The former prime minister Sir John Major has suggested it will be difficult for the government to act as an honest broker in talks to restore the power-sharing agreement in Belfast if it enters into a deal with the DUP to prop up a Conservative minority government in Westminster.

On Tuesday afternoon, Foster indicated that a deal was close to being finalised.

She also gave a glimpse into the issues on the table, saying Brexit, counter-terrorism, and “doing what’s right” for the Northern Ireland economy were among the key issues being thrashed out.

A senior Conservative source said: “We are making a lot of progress, it’s all being done in the spirit of cooperation, with a real focus on strengthening the union and providing stability at this time.”

A Conservative source said there was so far no deal to announce and that a decision on the timing of any announcement would have to wait until an agreement was finalised.

Ministers have indicated that the Queen’s speech may have to be set back from its scheduled date of next Monday 19 June because of the ongoing negotiations.

May is coming under intense pressure to change her approach to leaving the European Union, with predecessors David Cameron and Sir John Major among those suggesting a softer stance with a greater effort to seek a consensus.

The chancellor, Philip Hammond, is preparing to fight for the UK to remain within the EU’s customs union which could safeguard jobs and trade with EU members but would severely restrict the UK’s ability to strike its own trade deals around the world.

At a joint press conference with May in Paris on Tuesday night, the French president, Emmanuel Macron, suggested that the door was still open for the UK to remain in the EU.

“Until the negotiations come to an end, of course there is always the possibility to reopen the door,” said the French president. “But let us be clear and organised and once the negotiations have started we should be well aware that it’ll be more difficult to move backwards.”

The DUP was seeking to make the new government’s policies “more compassionate” across the UK, party sources said. They said the DUP was attempting to dilute austerity measures and defend things like the triple lock on pensions.

The DUP wanted to secure a deal that not only could benefit Northern Ireland but also people in England, Scotland and Wales, they said.

Among the Northern Ireland-specific issues raised by the DUP was a special corporation tax status for the region, possibly at a 12.5% rate.

This is similar to the Irish Republic’s tax regime, which has successfully attracted foreign direct investment to Ireland. The DUP has described the 12.5% rate as a “gamechanger” for Northern Ireland.

The last government insisted that if Northern Ireland was awarded a lower corporation tax the price would be reductions in the UK Treasury’s block grant of billions into the local economy. The sources said the DUP was asking that this Treasury condition be erased as part of the deal.

The message coming out of the DUP on Wednesday appeared to be addressing two audiences. The first was the wider UK population, with the prospect that the DUP could help soften the blows of austerity across the union.

The second appeared to address the other Northern Irish parties, but most importantly Sinn Féin, 24 hours before roundtable party talks resume in Belfast aimed at restoring a devolved government.

The DUP is arguing and will argue during the Belfast discussions that the national deal with May and the Tories will bring dividends to Northern Ireland, which a restored power-sharing executive can distribute and manage from Belfast.