Grenfell tower, West London fire - final death toll of 71 announced

[Shaun]

A huge fire has engulfed a tower block in Latimer Road, west London, with eyewitnesses saying the flames have engulfed all 24 storeys.

The fire at Grenfell Tower on the Lancaster West Estate was reported at 01:16 BST and about 200 firefighters are tackling the blaze.

The Metropolitan Police said "an evacuation process is under way".

The BBC's Andy Moore said the whole tower block was alight and there are fears the building might collapse.

Eyewitnesses say the block of flats was "close to burning through".

Looks absolutely horrific, can't imagine there's much relieving news to come out of it.

[Scarlett.]

Holy ****
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCP1psGXgAAalK9.jpg

[Shaun]

Genuinely one of the most terrifying things I've seen, I can't imagine the scale of the destruction

[LaLaLand]

Oh my God that's awful!!

[Scarlett.]

Never seen a blaze so big, I really hope they get everyone out safely.

[Shaun]

Live updates: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/live/2017/jun/14/grenfell-tower-major-fire-london-apartment-block-white-city-latimer-road?CMP=twt_gu

Lots of reports there're still people trapped near the top but could just be conjecture...

[LaLaLand]

It looks like it's going to collapse. Terrifying.

[Scarlett.]

How the hell did the fire get so big so fast? The whole building is ablaze

[Shaun]

This blog was posted in November last year signalling the risks of fire hazard the block posed:

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/

It is a truly terrifying thought but the Grenfell Action Group firmly believe that only a catastrophic event will expose the ineptitude and incompetence of our landlord, the KCTMO, and bring an end to the dangerous living conditions and neglect of health and safety legislation that they inflict upon their tenants and leaseholders. We believe that the KCTMO are an evil, unprincipled, mini-mafia who have no business to be charged with the responsibility of looking after the every day management of large scale social housing estates and that their sordid collusion with the RBKC Council is a recipe for a future major disaster.

Unfortunately, the Grenfell Action Group have reached the conclusion that only an incident that results in serious loss of life of KCTMO residents will allow the external scrutiny to occur that will shine a light on the practices that characterise the malign governance of this non-functioning organisation. We believe that the KCTMO have ensured their ongoing survival by the use of proxy votes at their Annual General Meeting that see them returned with a mandate of 98% in favour of the continuation of their inept and highly dangerous management of our homes. It is no coincidence that the 98% is the same figure that is returned by the infamous Kim Jong-un of North Korea who claims mass popularity while reputedly enslaving the general population and starving the majority of his people to death.

It is our conviction that a serious fire in a tower block or similar high density residential property is the most likely reason that those who wield power at the KCTMO will be found out and brought to justice! The Grenfell Action Group believe that the KCTMO narrowly averted a major fire disaster at Grenfell Tower in 2013 when residents experienced a period of terrifying power surges that were subsequently found to have been caused by faulty wiring. We believe that our attempts to highlight the seriousness of this event were covered up by the KCTMO with the help of the RBKC Scrutiny Committee who refused to investigate the legitimate concerns of tenants and leaseholders.

We have blogged many times on the subject of fire safety at Grenfell Tower and we believe that these investigations will become part of damning evidence of the poor safety record of the KCTMO should a fire affect any other of their properties and cause the loss of life that we are predicting:

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2013/01/28/fire-safety-scandal-at-lancaster-west/

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2013/01/30/more-on-fire-safety/

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2013/02/21/another-fire-safety-scandal/

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/01/24/grenfell-tower-still-a-fire-risk/

In October 2015 a fire ripped through another KCTMO property, the 14 storey Adair Tower in North Kensington, causing mass panic and resulting in a number of residents taken to hospital suffering from smoke inhalation. It is reported that had it not been for the swift actions of the London Fire Brigade the consequences of this fire and potential loss of life could have been much worse.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11967592/50-rescued-from-burning-flats-in-Kensington.html

In the aftermath of the Adair Tower fire the London Fire Brigade found that the KCTMO had not been looking after the safety of residents properly and issued an Enforcement Order compelling them to improve the fire safety in the escape staircases and to provide self closing devices to all the tower block’s front doors. A further audit by the London Fire Brigade of the neighbouring Hazelwood Tower (located alongside Adair Tower) found similar breaches of health and safety legislation and an Enforcement Order was also issued for this property forcing the TMO to address the serious concerns of the Fire Brigade’s inspectors. What is shocking is that a decade ago a fatality occurred due to a fire at Hazelwood Tower and the Fire Investigation Team ordered that the grills on the fire escape staircase be covered over. This never happened and it is believed that the uncovered grills at Adair House (Hazelwood Tower’s twin block) acted like a chimney and were responsible for the accelerated spread of the fire and smoke damage.

In the last twenty years and despite the terrifying power surge incident in 2013 and recent fire at Adair Tower, the residents of Grenfell Tower have received no proper fire safety instructions from the KCTMO. Residents were informed by a temporary notice stuck in the lift and one announcement in a recent regeneration newsletter that they should remain in their flats in the event of fire. There are not and never have been any instructions posted in the Grenfell Tower noticeboard or on individual floor as to how residents should act in event of a fire. Anyone who witnessed the recent tower block fire at Shepherds Court, in nearby Shepherd’s Bush, will know that the advice to remain in our properties would have led to certain fatalities and we are calling on our landlord to re-consider the advice that they have so badly circulated.

The Grenfell Action Group predict that it won’t be long before the words of this blog come back to haunt the KCTMO management and we will do everything in our power to ensure that those in authority know how long and how appallingly our landlord has ignored their responsibility to ensure the heath and safety of their tenants and leaseholders. They can’t say that they haven’t been warned!

[Scarlett.]

I hope the media finds this site and KCTMO get ****ed and the people responsible for the negligence are punished to the fullest extent of the law, this could be an absolute catastrophe.

[Novo]

Someone was Periscoping from a far distance and you could clearly hear people shouting for help, horrendous

[Novo]

874822843195936770

[JTM45]

How the hell did the fire get so big so fast? The whole building is ablaze

My thoughts exactly! I just can't fathom how a fire could be allowed to engulf such a large building so completely and not be stopped.

Is the whole thing from bottom to top ablaze ?

Is there any info as to where and how the fire started ?

I really hope that everyone's allright but i'd be shocked if there aren't fatalities here. So worrying.

[Shaun]

Just (accidentally) saw a Twitter video clip where you could hear kids shouting for help... well that's me not sleeping for a while.

[Scarlett.]

Its apparently still spreading :(

[LaLaLand]

This is so awful, it feels like a movie. Imagine being at the top.

I really hope everybody gets out safe, miraculous as it seems.

[JTM45]

It's allight from the 2nd to the 27th(top) floor apparently.

Just watching this live on a BBC Breaking news report.

They're saying that the tower block has terrible access and there's a woman saying that the whole time she's been watching up 'til around an hour ago she could hear children and adults screaming for help.

Dreadful.

[LaLaLand]

Oh God no :(.

It's baffling how a fire like that can start at the base and spread right the way up without people at the top noticing?

[Scarlett.]

There's been reports that some fire alarms weren't working, whats worse the Grenfell blog mentions there was only one exit from the building during the renovations.

[GiRTh]

Just seen this. It look horrendous.

[Scarlett.]

The whole building is ablaze now, people are saying
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCQHGmyWsAAFWp_.jpg

[LaLaLand]

There's been reports that some fire alarms weren't working, whats worse the Grenfell blog mentions there was only one exit from the building during the renovations.

That's disgusting. Poor people.

It just looks like it's going to crumble any minute, absolutely charred :(

[JTM45]

If you switch BBC on there's a live view of the building and the fire looks to be dying down but it seems that it's burned itself out if anything.

It still says onscreen that there's reports of people being trapped inside the block.

Reports that people were phoning relatives from inside saying they didn't think they were going to make it out.

Also reports that a lot of the exits were blocked by intense fires.

There's many blocks that look identical to this in and around the Cardiff area (near me).

[Scarlett.]

With the smoke clearing further down, you can see clearly the extent of the damage.

[Shaun]

"I only saw 7 people in the foyer that got out in the first forty minutes" says one eyewitness on BBC News... some of the other details are terrifying.

[nicole_burks]

I saw this in my fb feed. I hope everyone is okay.

[Rob!]

Jesus Christ that's awful. It looks like something out of a disaster movie

[JTM45]

There's a guy speaking on the BBC who went into the building to attempt rescues and he said he, with assistance fromthe Fire Brigade, got a few people out but he was talking to people from outside who were on the fourth floor and they said they couldn't get through the coridoors because of thick, thick smoke. He said they gradually got less vocal and he hasn't seen anyone being brought out since. He said that there was a woman holding her child outside the window so they could breathe.
His assumption was that there surely must be tens if not 100 or so deaths. Totallly on the spot judgement of course so he could (hopefully) be mistaken.

Also people saying that lots of the approach roads to the block were shut due to repairs (?) or something.

[smudgie]

I have watched in disbelief for hours.
What an absolute tragedy.
The witness reports don't give much hope for many survivors.

[Scarlett.]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCQMFH5XYAcn3Mp.jpg

[JTM45]

Wow!!!
If they followed the advice on the lower part of that sheet then it's very worrying looking at how completely ablaze the whole bulding was.

[Scarlett.]

It's insane that it ever got this bad
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCQLNjuXYAAjwqE.jpg

[Rob!]

A silent clip of the fire at it's peak. Actually incredible how huge this got :eek:

NYz_rG8YBJQ

[arista]

120 flats
People are still trapped

Started from 2nd floor
http://news.sky.com/story/huge-fire-engulfs-west-london-tower-block-10915008

http://news.sky.com/story/live-hundred-of-firefighters-tackle-blaze-10915010

[Shaun]

Sounds like the decorative cladding, as seen in black in the pic below, installed in recent redevelopments was partially responsible for the rapid spreading of the fire - it was also a key factor in the severity of the Dubai New Year's Eve fire.

http://i1.getwestlondon.co.uk/incoming/article11344654.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/Grenfell-Tower.jpg

[JTM45]

The Ambulance Services in London told the BBC that they've taken 30 people in total (as of 6.30am) to five different hospitals.
An eye witness also said to the BBC that they could still hear people shouting from the building between 5:00 to 5.30am.
They haven't given any official statements as to casualties etc. yet though as everything is still ongoing and very little can be accurately assessed.

[Jake.]

dear god this is just... terrifying, genuinely

those poor people

[Kazanne]

Just woke up to this terrible news,hearing that people were throwing their children to safety,truly horrific,I hope everyone gets out safety,what a ****ty start to the day.

[bots]

It's difficult to see how there couldn't be serious casualties in this unfortunately. I don't think there can be many things more frightening than being trapped in a situation like that. Horrendous.

[Kazanne]

It's difficult to see how there couldn't be serious casualties in this unfortunately. I don't think there can be many things more frightening than being trapped in a situation like that. Horrendous.

Yes,I fear there will be bad news coming from this Bots,just terrible for those people,so sad.:bawling:

[AnnieK]

Jesus.....absolutely horrific. It is one of my worst nightmare to be trapped by fire. How terrified those poor people must be and how difficult a task for the fore crews when it's burning so bad

[y.winter]

Wow, how did it get to the whole building? Doesn't look good at all.

[Denver]

There has been a number of deaths but the fire service is not saying how many yet

[Novo]

Number of fatalities reported now, apparently the fire service couldn't do anything because the fire blocked the only fire exit so they couldn't get past it and had to wait for it to burn out according to an eye witness who was living on the lower part

[hijaxers]

This massive tradgedy all from a fridge on 2nd floor ! These poor people , fire is terrifying at any time but stuck in a high rise , pull the lot of them down i say they are way too dangerous .

[arista]

Fire brigade has said there are some dead
sadly.

That Cladding on the outside
burned fast

[Marc]

Sad

[Novo]

Pretty awful seeing that old man stuck in his room, hope they manage to get him, must be brutal for his family having to see that

[Beso]

No words.

[snail69]

Truly awful.

It seems like everytime we wake up these days there is some sort of tragic event.

I pray for all family and friends of the people that have been lost.

Sent from my SM-G900F using Tapatalk

[Vanessa]

Those poor people :sad::bawling:

[UserSince2005]

What the ****. Never seen anything like this before

[Wizard.]

I've never seen something so big in the UK. So so awful :(

[Beso]

Mohad:hug:

[Cherie]

Terrifying and so angry that people have to live in a death trap like this, one fatality is too many

[joeysteele]

Horrific,really awful.

[Kizzy]

The owners of the building had a similar thing happen in 2015 :suspect:

A fridge?.... nah.

[user104658]

No one should be packed into places like this is the first place, it's all so completely wrong. And then the people profiting from these places can't even be bothered to implement proper fire safety measures.

Oh and of course they cover the outside of the building with ****ing flammable material in order to make it look more respectable... how can that possibly be allowed? Surely things like that should be safety tested and only fire resistant materials used??

This tragedy should be a prompt to have abundant real housing built, and the rest of these things torn down, before it happens again.

[Kizzy]

No one should be packed into places like this is the first place, it's all so completely wrong. And then the people profiting from these places can't even be bothered to implement proper fire safety measures.

Oh and of course they cover the outside of the building with ****ing flammable material in order to make it look more respectable... how can that possibly be allowed? Surely things like that should be safety tested and only fire resistant materials used??

This tragedy should be a prompt to have abundant real housing built, and the rest of these things torn down, before it happens again.

Because... money.
Doesn't look like there were any changes after their last property caught fire.

[Beso]

Nobody is packed in for heavens sake TS.

[bots]

Please lets not descend in to political mud slinging on this thread

[user104658]

Please lets not descend in to political mud slinging on this thread

It's not a political issue at all really (other than I do think political intervention is needed to sort it out)...

But no it's not a party politics issue. These landlords have been thriving for decades under various governments. There's no specific "government blaming" to be done but there IS a problem. Quite clearly.

[user104658]

Nobody is packed in for heavens sake TS.

Hundreds of people living stacked up like Jenga in tower blocks without sufficient safety precautions? Yeah they're fine.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/

from November last year

[Cherie]

No one should be packed into places like this is the first place, it's all so completely wrong. And then the people profiting from these places can't even be bothered to implement proper fire safety measures.

Oh and of course they cover the outside of the building with ****ing flammable material in order to make it look more respectable... how can that possibly be allowed? Surely things like that should be safety tested and only fire resistant materials used??

This tragedy should be a prompt to have abundant real housing built, and the rest of these things torn down, before it happens again.

So disgusting how they get away with this, if you have any work done privately, the hoops you have to jump through to get it passed is ridiculous down to things like having extractor fans in a small cloakroom, yet these places are passed as safe, the residents have been raising the health and safety issues of the fire risk nothing done, what a joke

[JTM45]

You're right TS.

Like you said, they've got money to spend on the external fascia (which is being pointed too as the reason for the fire spreading so alarmingly quickly) but, even though they'd been made aware of it, they didn't spend this money on making the block better equipped for fast evacuation in this kind of an event. As long as it looks OK from a distance!
There's stories about lifts not working, there only being a single emergency exit which was frequently blocked with rubbish and there wasn't adequate or timely maintainance done onanything there. It must have been bad for the residents to have to start an action group (see LT's post a couple above this one) to try and adress their safety concerns. And all they did was put some fire safety info (pretty bad info as it turned out!) cards on the walls there.

[Niamh.]

This is horrific, how terrifying for those people

[Amy Jade]

Did anyone see Good Morning Britain with the elderly blind man in his window waving a white sheet to try and get help. Made my blood run cold, I hope as many people as possible are saved :worry:

[bots]

You're right TS.

Like you said, they've got money to spend on the external fascia (which is being pointed too as the reason for the fire spreading so alarmingly quickly) but, even though they'd been made aware of it, they didn't spend this money on making the block better equipped for fast evacuation in this kind of an event. As long as it looks OK from a distance!
There's stories about lifts not working, there only being a single emergency exit which was frequently blocked with rubbish and there wasn't adequate or timely maintainance done onanything there. It must have been bad for the residents to have to start an action group (see LT's post a couple above this one) to try and adress their safety concerns. And all they did was put some fire safety info (pretty bad info as it turned out!) cards on the walls there.

You would expect that the items you mentioned were subject to inspections and approvals. It doesn't look good, but I want to hear the fire brigade and investigation reports before pointing fingers of blame.

[JTM45]

You would expect that the items you mentioned were subject to inspections and approvals. It doesn't look good, but I want to hear the fire brigade and investigation reports before pointing fingers of blame.

A guy talking on behalf of the leader of the Grenfell Action Group on the BBC news just now said that they spoke and wrote to the local authorities addressing their concerns and he saidhe felt they were being treated like vermin and not being taken seriously.
Another resident from the next tower block over (which could be seen on thenews footage) said that they were greatly concerned about the prospect of fires especially of late as Boris Johnson has been pushing for (and suceeded) in getting some of London's Fire Stations closed down in an ill-advised cost-cutting drive.:bored:

[Jack_]

This blog was posted in November last year signalling the risks of fire hazard the block posed:

https://grenfellactiongroup.wordpress.com/2016/11/20/kctmo-playing-with-fire/

Capitalism in a nutshell.

What a horrifying sight.

[smudgie]

Council owned tower block.
In case of a fire you are normally advised not to use lifts, so the only escape is ONEstairwell running from top to bottom.
Listening to the people being interviewed this seems to be the norm, how on earth can anybody with half a brain think that the amount of people living in these tower blocks can vacate in time to save their lives.
The stairwell situated to one side and at the front of the building is as much use as a chocolate fire guard if you live at the other side of a building this size.
Health and safety issues need looking at, some serious thought and money needs to go into making these homes safe, right across the country.
The police and fire brigade were there within 6 minutes which is pretty remarkable as the area around the tower block is ridiculously inaccessible due to narrow roads.

[jet]

OMG. This is just horrific.

[Crimson Dynamo]

dozens now fared dead according to the DM

[arista]

6 now confirmed dead.

But they think it could be around 50 dead in the end


That Cladding on the outside was Plastic
the fire loves plastic

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/14/11/article-4601902-4169759B00000578-964_964x488.jpg

[andybigbro]

Oh my god that's horrendous!

I hope everyone trapped gets out safely :sad:

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/14/06/4167EF0300000578-4601902-image-a-28_1497418487452.jpg
view from the nearby other block of flats

[arista]

Oh my god that's horrendous!

I hope everyone trapped gets out safely :sad:

Police /firecrews
told a family in one flat to stay there,
as the internal stairs was on fire
Told to put a wet towel at the base
of their front door


From a Radio 5 report

[JTM45]

It's just incredible that this isn't more common given how many blocks of this type there must be in total around the UK.
Someone commented on the news earlier that they had had previous fires in this block but they remained contained and were relatively easily extinguished but this was the first one since the new 'cladding' was installed.

[smudgie]

It's just incredible that this isn't more common given how many blocks of this type there must be in total around the UK.
Someone commented on the news earlier that they had had previous fires in this block but they remained contained and were relatively easily extinguished but this was the first one since the new 'cladding' was installed.

Looking pretty bad, heads will/should roll over this.

[arista]

It's just incredible that this isn't more common given how many blocks of this type there must be in total around the UK.
Someone commented on the news earlier that they had had previous fires in this block but they remained contained and were relatively easily extinguished but this was the first one since the new 'cladding' was installed.


Yes outside Deadly Plastic cladding
that burns well

[T*]

Beyond horrifying oh my god D:

[Crimson Dynamo]

The Company that carried out cladding work reportedly went into administration


According to the industry publication Construction Enquirer, the company that carried out the cladding work on Grenfell Tower went into administration shortly after completing the work.

Harley Curtain Wall carried out the £3m project in 2015.

soruce: BBC

[JTM45]

I don't know if it was caused by the wind or what but on all the footage i saw on the telly earlier and also on those pics Arista posted up top you can see a really nasty intense burning 'inverted V' shape clearly. It was really prominent on the news footage. Does look like it could be where the wind/breeze is hitting the corner of the block possibly.

[DemolitionRed]

Thoughts to all those involved.

I did my fire probation only a few days ago because I work in a multi floor building and each department needs fire officers. One of the things that really surprised me was the amount of new battery fires (I always thought that was a scare story) we are having. We are now using more and more batteries and battery chargers...mobile phones, tablets, laptops and these new battery charged vacuum cleaners and this has significantly raised domestic house fires, especially at night when those batteries get put on charge. The fire officer warned us never to put a mobile on charge under your pillow because your creating a heat source. That's something I've done for years :shocked:

No doubt we will find the source of this fire in due time. Lets just hope that most of the residents got out.

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCRhOYIXoAA0ejG.jpg:large

[Nicky91]

it just seems for me like Towering Inferno, but then real life

i feel sad for all the people who have been trapped and perished in there :(


dying in a fire, is i think the worst possible way to die :(

[Kazanne]

Please lets not descend in to political mud slinging on this thread

I knew it wouldn't take long ,and right on cue ,some people cant wait to lay the blame can they? Does anyone know if the old guy got out who was stood by the window for ages?

[Cherie]

It's BL's neck of the woods hope he doesn't know anyone involved :sad:

[Kazanne]

It's BL's neck of the woods hope he doesn't know anyone involved :sad:

Who's BL Cherie?

[Cherie]

Who's BL Cherie?

Brother Leon, he was talking about Kensington and Chelsea's as being his Borough during the election, hopefully he lives somewhere else in the Borough

[Kazanne]

Brother Leon, he was talking about Kensington and Chelsea's as being his Borough during the election, hopefully he lives somewhere else in the Borough

Oh,right,lets hope he is ok :wavey:

[Niamh.]

Brother Leon, he was talking about Kensington and Chelsea's as being his Borough during the election, hopefully he lives somewhere else in the Borough

Oh no :(

[Denver]

6 deaths apparently

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/live-experience/cps/480/cpsprodpb/vivo/live/images/2017/6/14/55205487-4b49-4aae-b1a2-7125638169be.jpg

[AnnieK]

I knew it wouldn't take long ,and right on cue ,some people cant wait to lay the blame can they? Does anyone know if the old guy got out who was stood by the window for ages?

If you mean the Asian guy who was waving his jumper - there are reports he has been rescued, 12 hours after the blaze started.

They are reporting that those on the top 3 floors will not have been able to survive :sad:

I suppose a difficult thing is no one will know who was in their flats at the time

[Shaun]

The story I just read of someone from the ninth or tenth floor throwing their baby to safety and someone on the ground being able to catch him/her safely... honestly astounding. I can't imagine ever thinking that's something you 'have to do' for their safety. Hope the mother is safe.

I saw this on the BBC and thought you should see it:

London fire: Baby caught after being 'dropped to safety from tower' - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-40276194

[Niamh.]

The story I just read of someone from the ninth or tenth floor throwing their baby to safety and someone on the ground being able to catch him/her safely... honestly astounding. I can't imagine ever thinking that's something you 'have to do' for their safety. Hope the mother is safe.

Yeah just read that too, thank god someone caught him/her

[Sticks]

Has arson been ruled out?

If not, could this have been an Islamic State inspired attack?

[Niamh.]

Has arson been ruled out?

If not, could this have been an Islamic State inspired attack?

The only thing I heard was it may have been a faulty fridge

[AnnieK]

The only think I heard was it may have been a faulty fridge

Yep apparently one of the residents said his neighbour had told him his fridge had exploded and started the fire

[Kazanne]

If you mean the Asian guy who was waving his jumper - there are reports he has been rescued, 12 hours after the blaze started.

They are reporting that those on the top 3 floors will not have been able to survive :sad:

I suppose a difficult thing is no one will know who was in their flats at the time

That's the one Annie,he was shown on breakfast TV waiting,I am pleased he has been rescued,so sad for all those who perished though.

[Kazanne]

The only thing I heard was it may have been a faulty fridge

I heard it was a fridge too

[Beso]

Hundreds of people living stacked up like Jenga in tower blocks without sufficient safety precautions? Yeah they're fine.

120 appartments housing 500 people is 4 to a house...hardly crammed in for god sake.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Death toll now 12...

[Niamh.]

Death toll now 12...

Unfortunately I think it will be a lot higher than that :(

[Vanessa]

:(

[Crimson Dynamo]

Unfortunately I think it will be a lot higher than that :(

DM reports that Nobody from top 3 floors survived..

[Kazanne]

DM reports that Nobody from top 3 floors survived..

By the look of that building and the intensity of the fire,I am surprised so many got out,so sad

[arista]

One bloke
got a wet towel over his face
and got to the stairs - full of smoke
a Fireman on the ground touched his leg
and he was saved,

From a Ch5HD news report

[arista]

That's the one Annie,he was shown on breakfast TV waiting,I am pleased he has been rescued,so sad for all those who perished though.

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/14/13/4169CADE00000578-0-image-a-44_1497441607634.jpg
Saved

[The fire that swept through
a 27-storey west London tower
block in just 15 minutes
after a faulty fridge exploded could be one
of the worst in British history
amid fears nobody on its top
three floors survived.]

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4601902/Huge-inferno-West-London-tower-block.html#ixzz4jzkERwTo

[arista]

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2017/06/14/16/416B356F00000578-4601902-image-m-168_1497454739320.jpg

[user104658]

120 appartments housing 500 people is 4 to a house...hardly crammed in for god sake.
The apartments themselves were crammed into a ruddy big tower block that went on fire?

[Crimson Dynamo]

I wonder how much subletting to illegals was going on? Trying to work out who was in there will be a nightmare

[user104658]

I wonder how much subletting to illegals was going on? Trying to work out who was in there will be a nightmare

:clap1: Making the thread not only political, but about immigration :clap1: :clap1:. I'd have thought it was impossible but here we are.

[Crimson Dynamo]

:clap1: Making the thread not only political, but about immigration :clap1: :clap1:. I'd have thought it was impossible but here we are.

It's a genuine worry for those tasked with counting bodies and notifying families.

[arista]

I wonder how much subletting to illegals was going on? Trying to work out who was in there will be a nightmare


Sure that's possible
but not more than live in it

[Kazanne]

It's a genuine worry for those tasked with counting bodies and notifying families.

Yes it was mentioned earlier on the news,no good hiding from the possibility.

[Shaun]

So many horrible interviews on the BBC just then with people with relatives still unaccounted for... but at the same time so many wonderful examples of the community coming together. :(

[Crimson Dynamo]

Imagine living in a Tower Block of a similar age now?

Poor folk

[user104658]

Imagine living in a Tower Block of a similar age now?

Poor folk
I thought that earlier - imagine living in the identical tower block a few hundred metres away, having actually watched the thing burn, then having to try to get to sleep feeling safe...

[Mystic Mock]

I wonder how much subletting to illegals was going on? Trying to work out who was in there will be a nightmare

Illegals or not they're still people that had their lives put in danger.

That's btw if there was even any illegal immigrants living in any of the Flats.

[Brother Leon]

Incredibly sad. I've spent the whole day from about 4am volunteering and making constant runs to Sainsbury's to bring stuff that may be needed with my Fiancé and her sister. Hearing the screams and children being thrown will stay with me forever though.

The spirit shown was real heartwarming though. The last hour or so has slightly changed and there seems more anger around and people taking it out on each other, but on the whole the heart shown has been amazing.

We personally know someone that lives there, but him and his girlfriend in a panic decided to ignore the advice to stay where they are and ran down when it started to look bad. So lucky.

[Vanessa]

Incredibly sad. I've spent the whole day from about 4am volunteering and making constant runs to Sainsbury's to bring stuff that may be needed with my Fiancé and her sister. Hearing the screams and children being thrown will stay with me forever though.

The spirit shown was real heartwarming though. The last hour or so has slightly changed and there seems more anger around and people taking it out on each other, but on the whole the heart shown has been amazing.

We personally know someone that lives there, but him and his girlfriend in a panic decided to ignore the advice to stay where they are and ran down when it started to look bad. So lucky.

I can't believe them they told them to stay in their flats. That's terrible advice :nono:

[AnnieK]

Incredibly sad. I've spent the whole day from about 4am volunteering and making constant runs to Sainsbury's to bring stuff that may be needed with my Fiancé and her sister. Hearing the screams and children being thrown will stay with me forever though.

The spirit shown was real heartwarming though. The last hour or so has slightly changed and there seems more anger around and people taking it out on each other, but on the whole the heart shown has been amazing.

We personally know someone that lives there, but him and his girlfriend in a panic decided to ignore the advice to stay where they are and ran down when it started to look bad. So lucky.

Glad you're friends are ok BL.....its amazing how communities band together...anger is bound to happen but things will settle down again. Good on you for helping for so long :love:

[Kizzy]

Incredibly sad. I've spent the whole day from about 4am volunteering and making constant runs to Sainsbury's to bring stuff that may be needed with my Fiancé and her sister. Hearing the screams and children being thrown will stay with me forever though.

The spirit shown was real heartwarming though. The last hour or so has slightly changed and there seems more anger around and people taking it out on each other, but on the whole the heart shown has been amazing.

We personally know someone that lives there, but him and his girlfriend in a panic decided to ignore the advice to stay where they are and ran down when it started to look bad. So lucky.

You were there and did your bit you should be really proud of yourself, I really hope your community can recover and all those now homeless are adequately housed in the area ASAP and a full investigation is carried out too.

[Novo]

Good on you Leon, shouldn't have to to witness these sort of these in a situation that was so easily avoidable, the anger is understandable taking everything into account and if what has been said is true then their is blood on the hands of certain people and need to be held accountable for it.

Their was some guy called Piers before speaking about it saying he knew the guy who wrote the blog that was posted raising concerns about safety issues and said the community was pretty tight nit because they have had to come together to discuss the issues about the flats before this even happened,

[Kazanne]

Incredibly sad. I've spent the whole day from about 4am volunteering and making constant runs to Sainsbury's to bring stuff that may be needed with my Fiancé and her sister. Hearing the screams and children being thrown will stay with me forever though.

The spirit shown was real heartwarming though. The last hour or so has slightly changed and there seems more anger around and people taking it out on each other, but on the whole the heart shown has been amazing.

We personally know someone that lives there, but him and his girlfriend in a panic decided to ignore the advice to stay where they are and ran down when it started to look bad. So lucky.

Glad you are ok BL and awful for you to see and hear all that,kudos toyou for helping those people too.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its still on bloody fire!

[Niamh.]

Incredibly sad. I've spent the whole day from about 4am volunteering and making constant runs to Sainsbury's to bring stuff that may be needed with my Fiancé and her sister. Hearing the screams and children being thrown will stay with me forever though.

The spirit shown was real heartwarming though. The last hour or so has slightly changed and there seems more anger around and people taking it out on each other, but on the whole the heart shown has been amazing.

We personally know someone that lives there, but him and his girlfriend in a panic decided to ignore the advice to stay where they are and ran down when it started to look bad. So lucky.
It must have an horrific experience Leon, glad your friends got out and well done for helping :hug:

[Drew.]

Incredibly sad. I've spent the whole day from about 4am volunteering and making constant runs to Sainsbury's to bring stuff that may be needed with my Fiancé and her sister. Hearing the screams and children being thrown will stay with me forever though.

The spirit shown was real heartwarming though. The last hour or so has slightly changed and there seems more anger around and people taking it out on each other, but on the whole the heart shown has been amazing.

We personally know someone that lives there, but him and his girlfriend in a panic decided to ignore the advice to stay where they are and ran down when it started to look bad. So lucky.

Glad to hear you're safe Leon.. good on you for volunteering and helping out those affected

[Cherie]

Good that you and your friends are okay, the anger is understandable

[Amy Jade]

Incredibly sad. I've spent the whole day from about 4am volunteering and making constant runs to Sainsbury's to bring stuff that may be needed with my Fiancé and her sister. Hearing the screams and children being thrown will stay with me forever though.

The spirit shown was real heartwarming though. The last hour or so has slightly changed and there seems more anger around and people taking it out on each other, but on the whole the heart shown has been amazing.

We personally know someone that lives there, but him and his girlfriend in a panic decided to ignore the advice to stay where they are and ran down when it started to look bad. So lucky.
You should be proud of yourself what a lovely thing to do :love:

[smudgie]

Good to see you are ok BL, the way the community has pulled together is heartwarming, fantastic of you to help and do everything you could.
I can understand the anger setting in, people have seen and heard things that will stay with them the rest of their lives.

[Braden]

This is just unbelievable and horrifying. RIP to those poor souls who have lost their lives.

BrotherLeon, you're a saint.

[arista]

https://d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/df7QMQc2R0GZecZzrB14_Daily%20Mirror.jpg

[arista]

https://d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/tAhpIsDLSYGXeMAUnqC2_The%20sun%20front%20page%2015 .06.17%20%281%29.jpg

[King Gizzard]

875114477838098432

Already at nearly 400k :love: Will donate when I get paid

[Daniel.]

So terrible :( RIP

[Daniel.]

So terrible :( RIP.

[Mystic Mock]

Incredibly sad. I've spent the whole day from about 4am volunteering and making constant runs to Sainsbury's to bring stuff that may be needed with my Fiancé and her sister. Hearing the screams and children being thrown will stay with me forever though.

The spirit shown was real heartwarming though. The last hour or so has slightly changed and there seems more anger around and people taking it out on each other, but on the whole the heart shown has been amazing.

We personally know someone that lives there, but him and his girlfriend in a panic decided to ignore the advice to stay where they are and ran down when it started to look bad. So lucky.

It's good what you're doing Brother Leon, I hope that you're okay.:wavey:

[JTM45]

It's truly heart-warming too see such a diverse community sticking together and helping each other in such horrendous circumstances. They're saying that the help they're getting from local people and local businesses is incredible!

THIS is Great Britain at its very best and it gives me a real sense of pride to be part of it.:love:

[jennyjuniper]

These huge tower blocks have never been anything but a bad idea. They stick old people on the top floors and they become isolated. People with small children are no better off. No building where people live should be above the length of the longest fire brigade ladder. Those poor souls.

[JTM45]

I agree Jenny.
Imagine older or even disabled people (they mentioned a wheelchair bound resident of the block yesterday) stuck up on anything above the second storey!
They probably never leave their flats and if they don't have relatives or care-workers (which, as we know, are very difficult to even get these days) then they're inevitably going to become completely isolated and neglected. Very, very sad indeed.

It does sound like there's a fantastic community of people living in this block wholook out for their neighbours but you can bet this isn't the case in a lot of these tower blocks.

[JTM45]

Apparently there's 4000 of these Tower Blocks throught the UK.

Theresa May's new advisor Gavin Barwell was tasked with reviewing Tower Block safety and fire regulations but chose to sit on these reccomendations and the Cons even attempted to roll back housing safety regulations to cut costs. That's on top of Boris championing and even suceeding in closing a number of Fire Stations across London.

If they hadn't been somewhat rumbled because of their recent election balls-up and they'd in fact got the massive landslide result that was thankfully denied can you imagine the crapthey'd have steam-rollered in ? And we would have been completely and utterly powerless to stop them.

Thank **** enough people put their votes elsewhere. As bad as we thought it could have been i don't think we even had a clue about just how bad it would have actually turned out.

This cannot be allowed to happen again!!! They just had a fire safety officer on the BBC News and he had some of the insulation (looked kinda' like polystyrene) that's put under the fascia boards that were on this tower block and he lit it and it was like a one of those gas living room fires once it was lit. How on Earth was this stuff ever passed as suitable for use ??:shrug:

[Vanessa]

Apparently there's 4000 of these Tower Blocks throught the UK.

Theresa May's new advisor Gavin Barwell was tasked with reviewing Tower Block safety and fire regulations but chose to sit on these reccomendations and the Cons even attempted to roll back housing safety regulations to cut costs. That's on top of Boris championing and even suceeding in closing a number of Fire Stations across London.

If they hadn't been somewhat rumbled because of their recent election balls-up and they'd in fact got the massive landslide result that was thankfully denied can you imagine the crapthey'd have steam-rollered in ? And we would have been completely and utterly powerless to stop them.

Thank **** enough people put their votes elsewhere. As bad as we thought it could have been i don't think we even had a clue about just how bad it would have actually turned out.

This cannot be allowed to happen again!!! They just had a fire safety officer on the BBC News and he had some of the insulation (looked kinda' like polystyrene) that's put under the fascia boards that were on this tower block and he lit it and it was like a one of those gas living room fires once it was lit. How on Earth was this stuff ever passed as suitable for use ??:shrug:

Yes. I hope they review the safety of all these block of flats. At least it would prevent other fires.

[Kazanne]

Apparently there's 4000 of these Tower Blocks throught the UK.

Theresa May's new advisor Gavin Barwell was tasked with reviewing Tower Block safety and fire regulations but chose to sit on these reccomendations and the Cons even attempted to roll back housing safety regulations to cut costs. That's on top of Boris championing and even suceeding in closing a number of Fire Stations across London.

If they hadn't been somewhat rumbled because of their recent election balls-up and they'd in fact got the massive landslide result that was thankfully denied can you imagine the crapthey'd have steam-rollered in ? And we would have been completely and utterly powerless to stop them.

Thank **** enough people put their votes elsewhere. As bad as we thought it could have been i don't think we even had a clue about just how bad it would have actually turned out.

This cannot be allowed to happen again!!! They just had a fire safety officer on the BBC News and he had some of the insulation (looked kinda' like polystyrene) that's put under the fascia boards that were on this tower block and he lit it and it was like a one of those gas living room fires once it was lit. How on Earth was this stuff ever passed as suitable for use ??:shrug:

Oh,here we go !!!

[JTM45]

Oh,here we go !!!

If it's what's being reported as part of the story about the on-going Grenfell Tower Block disaster report on the News (real BBC News!) do younot think it's relevant to discuss ?

[Kazanne]

If it's what's being reported as part of the story about the on-going Grenfell Tower Block disaster report on the News (real BBC News!) do younot think it's relevant to discuss ?

Not yet,there are still people missing in there,surely the blame game can wait .

[user104658]

Not yet,there are still people missing in there,surely the blame game can wait .

I notice you had no problem with LT mentioning immigration earlier in the thread, though. Funny that.

[lime]

Incredibly sad. I've spent the whole day from about 4am volunteering and making constant runs to Sainsbury's to bring stuff that may be needed with my Fiancé and her sister. Hearing the screams and children being thrown will stay with me forever though.

The spirit shown was real heartwarming though. The last hour or so has slightly changed and there seems more anger around and people taking it out on each other, but on the whole the heart shown has been amazing.

We personally know someone that lives there, but him and his girlfriend in a panic decided to ignore the advice to stay where they are and ran down when it started to look bad. So lucky.
:hug:

[JTM45]

Not yet,there are still people missing in there,surely the blame game can wait .

The residents and people from the community are discussing it so it's nothing to do with a blame 'game' at all. It's about the people who have been affected by this want some accountability.

These people, some of whom still have relatives and friends missing, are angry that they're finding out that the authorities and ministers were given recomendations about installing sprinkler systems four years ago and they've done nothing!

[Cherie]

17 now dead

[Kazanne]

17 now dead

:sad: I was thinking maybe those fireladders like they have in New York would be helpful on high rise buildings ,I am hearing now there were no smoke alarms going off !!

[DouglasS]

I feel so bad for these people its awful, I can't imagine what they felt being trapped in the building waiting for help that never came :(

[smudgie]

Absolutely tragic.
No hope of finding anybody else alive now.

[DemolitionRed]

These tower blocks act like chimneys in a fire. Fire will of travelled up the lift shafts, the stairs and the rubbish shoots.

Another thing is double glazing. Because fire searches for oxygen and doesn't have as much oxygen to fuel it in a double glazed building, it works its way upwards much quicker than it would otherwise. People above the fire opening windows would of been another reason for the fire spreading so quickly.

A thank you to BL for doing your bit in these tragic circumstances.

[bots]

:sad: I was thinking maybe those fireladders like they have in New York would be helpful on high rise buildings ,I am hearing now there were no smoke alarms going off !!

its the nature of the fire. As it seems to have travelled up the outside of the building the standard fire prevention/alert mechanisms weren't so effective. Also it spread so quickly that it couldn't be contained sufficiently quickly enough. In typical circumstances each apartment "should" be its own isolated zone. Whatever interfered with that should be looked into quickly along with how it spread so quickly up the outside, although that has received a lot of attention already.

[arista]

Dogs to go in today , with the Fire Crew
should help locate bodies

[Crimson Dynamo]

Surely by now we must know how many are dead. Relatives will know now if a loved one is a resident and they have not heard from them in the last 24 hours etc?

[Vanessa]

Two Italians are among the missing. Hope they managed to escape. :sad: Such a tragedy, I feel for everyone involved.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I notice you had no problem with LT mentioning immigration earlier in the thread, though. Funny that.

what has that got to do with blaming a political party for the tragedy

in any way shape or form?

[user104658]

what has that got to do with blaming a political party for the tragedy

in any way shape or form?
In the way, shape and form that you were making it blatantly political.

[Crimson Dynamo]

In the way, shape and form that you were making it blatantly political.

My point, as you know, was that it would make finding out who was dead/in there more difficult. Illegal immigrants are here due to all political parties (save say UKIP) not one. Its a logistics point. I am sorry that you think an illegal immigrant is some political badge, that is your prejudice

[user104658]

My point, as you know, was that it would make finding out who was dead/in there more difficult. Illegal immigrants are here due to all political parties (save say UKIP) not one. Its a logistics point. I am sorry that you think an illegal immigrant is some political badge, that is your prejudice

Indeed I'm sorry and I do 100% believe that there was nothing more to it than that. You only brought up illegal immigrants as a logistics point. Obviously.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Indeed I'm sorry and I do 100% believe that there was nothing more to it than that. You only brought up illegal immigrants as a logistics point. Obviously.

It is and if in that block there was a lot of subletting then finding out how many have died will be much more difficult - especially if it goes down to dental records..

[Tom4784]

They need to look at Tower Blocks across the map and make sure they are all up to code because there's almost certainly gonna be more companies that are cutting corners on safety and prevention.

[smudgie]

I think it is going to be very difficult to put an exact figure on fatalities.
People could have been visiting family, staying over or on holiday.
I don't really know the possibility of checking dental records, a fire burning so long at that intensity could diminish this possibility.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I know the block well by sight and used to drink all around there when i worked at the BBC in white city :sad:

[Kazanne]

I think it is going to be very difficult to put an exact figure on fatalities.
People could have been visiting family, staying over or on holiday.
I don't really know the possibility of checking dental records, a fire burning so long at that intensity could diminish this possibility.

Wouldn't the landlord/council have a tenents list,that would help as for any other people in there visitors etc,that could be difficult

[smudgie]

They need to look at Tower Blocks across the map and make sure they are all up to code because there's almost certainly gonna be more companies that are cutting corners on safety and prevention.

Definitely.
From the look of it, the first thing would be to strip all this fascia that appears to be the cause of the speed the fire spread.
No good spending nearly £10 million tarting a tower block up when there were so many other issues and safety features that could have been improved on.
Perhaps the fire exit availability also needs to be looked at, in normal circumstances a fire can be better contained, therefore the procedure is to stay in your own flat unless in obvious danger from a spread of the fire, unfortunately this fire was mainly spread from the outside and had no chance of being under control.
Take away the risk of it happening again from the outside of the building and then create external escape exits from every floor.
One fire exit can't work, the fire brigade have to use the same stairwell to gain access and with so many people needing to vacate the building at the same time it is catastrophic.
A sprinkle system should be made law, surely it would make a massive difference to the possibility of surviving a fire.

[Vanessa]

Firefighters are still working on the fire. Month end news now:sad:

[Vanessa]

It's nice to see the community coming together after this tragedy. Heartwarming.

[Crimson Dynamo]

DM hinting now at "hundreds dead"

[Kazanne]

It's nice to see the community coming together after this tragedy. Heartwarming.

Yes,it's lovely,brings a tear to your eyes.

[Vanessa]

DM hinting now at "hundreds dead"

D::(

[Kazanne]

DM hinting now at "hundreds dead"

Jesus,I hope not LT

[Tom4784]

It's probably the DM being sensationalist vampires to stir up panic and despair in the community so that they can report on said panic and despair. It's one of their oldest tricks.

Vile newspaper.

[Shaun]

I do think a triple figure death toll is relatively likely, though...

[Niamh.]

I do think a triple figure death toll is relatively likely, though...

Well if it's true that no one from a few floors up got out then I'd think it's likely :(

[Beso]

I wish they would say how many are missing.

[Brother Leon]

Not yet,there are still people missing in there,surely the blame game can wait .

I understand you fully, but considering the people that were effected were screaming similar things on the road then it's very fair. The whole area is angry towards a large number of people. This was an avoidable tragedy.

Anyway, we housed a few people we met yesterday that had no where to go. Absolutely heartwrenching when they would sometimes just breakdown after realising just what is happening and how much has been lost.

[Crimson Dynamo]

and i wonder how many had insurance?

[smudgie]

and i wonder how many had insurance?

Hopefully people will be given all the help they need.
Unfortunately no amount of money can take away the heartbreak and horror.

[bots]

It's morbid I know, but people need to start preparing for the worst. Not trying to make any political point here, just a human one, and there were points in that TM interview where she was close to tears, I think that is an early indication of the scale of this tragedy.

[Kazanne]

I understand you fully, but considering the people that were effected were screaming similar things on the road then it's very fair. The whole area is angry towards a large number of people. This was an avoidable tragedy.

Anyway, we housed a few people we met yesterday that had no where to go. Absolutely heartwrenching when they would sometimes just breakdown after realising just what is happening and how much has been lost.

You did great BL and yes I understand people will be getting angry now,and still people in that tower,it will be a long slow process,glad you and yours were all fine.

[arista]

A resident on the 4th floor
(which used to be the 2nd floor)
said the Fireman put the fridge out
inside the flat with the Fire.
But because the Fridge was near the Window
the other side had caught the
outside cladding alight fast.


BBCTV /Radio

[arista]

I wish they would say how many are missing.


Yes its confusing
we know 17 are dead
but there are more than that missing

[arista]

http://e3.365dm.com/17/06/1096x616/b7b2bb2bccefc8dcd93cab7bd48ac669a4c8ef5bd312617b2d 9f3bde35ecd5a4_3978912.jpg?20170615142233
search dogs - go in.

[King Gizzard]

The sun and Mail trying to victim blame already. Absolutely shameful but didn't expect anything less especially the sun

875352582230863872

875354568493813760

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its natural for newspapers (and for them read the general public) want to find out how the fire started

[Tom4784]

****ing vile newspapers.

[Cherie]

Wouldn't the landlord/council have a tenents list,that would help as for any other people in there visitors etc,that could be difficult

That's LTs point people will have bought properties under the council right to buy scheme and let them out illegally as you are meant to live in the home yourself if you buy it off the council until you sell it on, there might be more people living in a flat than it is intended for and also if not on the electoral roll it would be hard to keep track

[bots]

that is the tabloids at their worst ... disgusting

[smudgie]

Ok, we would like to know how it started, but to not only name the man but put his photo all over the papers is not good.
Unless of course he wanted them to.
He is in no way to blame for the massive inferno, that was down to the outside structure being tarted up.
Under normal circumstances the fire would probably have been contained to his flat until the fire brigade arrived.

[Cherie]

Ok, we would like to know how it started, but to not only name the man but put his photo all over the papers is not good.
Unless of course he wanted them to.
He is in no way to blame for the massive inferno, that was down to the outside structure being tarted up.
Under normal circumstances the fire would probably have been contained to his flat until the fire brigade arrived.

Apparently his fridge was by a window, and the flames caught the cladding in that way, zip wonder if its one of the numerous faulty fridge that are out there on recall

[Crimson Dynamo]

oh

looks like the the darling of the left The Mirror are at it as well

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-caused-london-tower-block-10620310

and the metro

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/what-caused-the-grenfell-tower-blaze-reports-suggest-safety-problems-and-electrical-fault-6707170/

and ITV

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-14/fridge-theory-grenfell-tower-london-fire-investigate/

etc

[bots]

oh

looks like the the darling of the left The Mirror are at it as well

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/what-caused-london-tower-block-10620310

and the metro

http://metro.co.uk/2017/06/14/what-caused-the-grenfell-tower-blaze-reports-suggest-safety-problems-and-electrical-fault-6707170/

and ITV

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-06-14/fridge-theory-grenfell-tower-london-fire-investigate/

etc

doesn't make it decent behaviour just because a few want a blinking lynch mob

[Crimson Dynamo]

doesn't make it descent behaviour just because a few want a blinking lynch mob

they are just reporting what people want to know

[Cherie]

The sun and Mail trying to victim blame already. Absolutely shameful but didn't expect anything less especially the sun

875352582230863872

875354568493813760

This is not the case according to the man who was visiting the flat opposite, the fire brigade went in and put out the fire, it was all clear no smoke and then they realised it had caught the cladding, that is actually disgusting reporting

[King Gizzard]

None of those have plastered a big picture of him stating his name and questioning his motives. Nice try though.

[bots]

they are just reporting what people want to know

that's just not true, and you know it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

that's just not true, and you know it.

Are you saying people dont want to know how and why the fire started?

[Crimson Dynamo]

None of those have plastered a big picture of him stating his name and questioning his motives. Nice try though.

the mail always do imagery better, hence they are number 1

[Cherie]

They don't need any more donations of food and clothes, London :love:

Edit: for now as they are overwhelmed

[Cherie]

875114477838098432

Already at nearly 400k :love: Will donate when I get paid

Just bumping this as well

[Crimson Dynamo]

Just bumping this as well

surely they should cancel this weeks lottery (17 million) and use that money?

[Cherie]

surely they should cancel this weeks lottery (17 million) and use that money?

That would be a great idea, although no doubt you would get some arse complaining he had lost his 2 quid

[Shaun]

Ok, we would like to know how it started, but to not only name the man but put his photo all over the papers is not good.
Unless of course he wanted them to.
He is in no way to blame for the massive inferno, that was down to the outside structure being tarted up.
Under normal circumstances the fire would probably have been contained to his flat until the fire brigade arrived.

A picture of him having a pint and looking happy as well, quite obvious what the Mail is trying to cater to there.

[bots]

That would be a great idea, although no doubt you would get some arse complaining he had lost his 2 quid

actually, its a damn good point. They could easily make the good causes the fire, the manchester bombing and the london attacks ... why didn't they, it doesnt affect the winnings

[Cherie]

The first victim of the Grenfell Tower fire has been named as Syrian refugee Mohammad al-Haj Ali, whom grieving friends say "came here for a better life" but the UK "failed him".
Mohammed al-Haj Ali, a*civil engineering student at the University of West London, was separated from his older brother Omar on the stairs as they tried to escape the inferno engulfing the 24-storey block.*
The 23-year-old was following Omar but let go of his hand after becoming*overwhelmed by the smoke.
He returned alone to their flat on the 14th floor, where he was trapped for two hours. He made phonecalls to friends and family at home in war-torn Syria before sending one final message that read: "The fire is here now, goodbye".
Friends and family confirmed Omar, a 25-year-old business student, made it out alive and is recovering from smoke inhalation in Kings Cross hospital. However, Mohammed was lost in the chaos and has not been heard from since.
Click to view :


:sad:

[Jack_]

buV929MqlWc

[joeysteele]

The sun and Mail trying to victim blame already. Absolutely shameful but didn't expect anything less especially the sun

875352582230863872

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Just really sickening publications Nathan.
They always are.

This is a really distressing tragedy.
Thinking of just how high the final fatalities list will reach is heartbreaking.

[Beso]

buV929MqlWc

Makes the ending to that letter that was sent to the council rather more sinister than i thought it was when i read it.

[smudgie]

buV929MqlWc

Hmmmm, better than the idiotic woman this morning finding a platform for her hate.
Revenge for the London Bridge attack according to her.
The fire brigade took 4 and a half hours to attend..according to her.
There was only very few police attending..according to her.
She insisted she spoke last out of the three interviewed as her anger was "different".
She was asked to hang on for a moment after the interview and couldn't scurry off quick enough.
She didn't know anybody in the flats so her anger wasn't emotional.
Bloody head case, stuff like this can cause so much anger and hate amongst people.

[JTM45]

'The Sun' really is a vile, disgusting rag. :yuk:
'News' paper............my arse!!!!

[Jack_]

Sorry but the 'don't politicise this' cries are complete bull****, and here's why:

Tories reject move to ensure rented homes fit for human habitation

Labour amendment to housing bill, aimed at holding landlords to account, is defeated as minister claims it would push up rents

Conservative MPs have voted against proposed new rules requiring private sector landlords to ensure their properties are fit for human habitation.

A Labour amendment to the government’s housing and planning bill, designed to ensure that all rented accommodation was safe for people to live in, was defeated by 312 votes to 219 on Tuesday, a majority of 93.

“The majority of landlords let property which is and remains in a decent standard. Many landlords go out of their way to ensure that even the slightest safety hazard is sorted quickly and efficiently,” said the shadow housing minister, Teresa Pearce, who proposed the amendment.

“So it is even more distressing when we see reports of homes which are frankly unfit for human habitation being let, often at obscene prices.”

Pearce said that the condition of some rented accommodation would not be tolerated in other sectors, citing reports of mouldy walls in privately rented properties.

“Where else in modern day life could someone get away with this? It’s a consumer issue. If I purchased a mobile phone or a computer that didn’t work, didn’t do what it said it would or was unsafe I would take it back and get a refund,” she said.

“If I purchased food from a shop and it was unsafe to eat I would not only get a refund but there is a high possibility the shopkeeper could be prosecuted. Yet if I rent from a landlord, perhaps the only available property for me, and it was unsafe to live in then I can either put up or shut up. In a market where demand outstrips supply renters lack basic consumer power to bargain for better conditions.”

The government has been heavily criticised for attempting to rush its controversial housing bill through parliament, last month quietly tabling an amendment to the bill that set a maximum of five-year terms for new council tenancies.

The bill will offer discounts of up to £102,700 in London and £77,000 in the rest of England to people renting from housing associations who want to buy their homes. The policy will be partly funded by requiring councils to sell the top third of their most valuable council homes from their remaining stock.

The local government minister, Marcus Jones, said Pearce’s proposal would result in “unnecessary regulation and cost to landlords” that would deter further investment and push up rents for tenants.

He said: “Of course we believe that all homes should be of a decent standard and all tenants should have a safe place to live regardless of tenure, but local authorities already have strong and effective powers to deal with poor quality and safe accommodation and we expect them to use them.”

The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/jan/12/tories-reject-move-to-ensure-rented-homes-fit-for-human-habitation)

Grenfell Tower: Tory minister declined to include sprinklers in fire safety rules as it could discourage house building

'We believe that it is the responsibility of the fire industry, rather than the Government'

The former Conservative housing minister warned against increasing fire safety regulations to include sprinklers because it could discourage house building.

As the death toll from the Grenfell Tower blaze rose to 12, it emerged Brandon Lewis, who was recently promoted to immigration minister, declined in 2014 to force building developers to fit sprinklers.

A sprinkler system would have "undoubtedly" saved lives at the Grenfell Tower blaze, the managing director of the Fire Protection Association told The Independent.

"Whether they'd have stopped that fire spreading at the speed it did up the outside of that building is another matter," Jon O'Neill said.

"But to have had sprinklers in that building would have created an environment where it would have been easier to rescue people and increase survivability."

Mr Lewis declined to bring in regulation forcing developers to fit sprinklers because he said it was not the Government's responsibility.

He told MPs: “We believe that it is the responsibility of the fire industry, rather than the Government, to market fire sprinkler systems effectively and to encourage their wider installation.”

He said the Tory Government had committed to being the first to reduce regulations nationwide.

He added: “The cost of fitting a fire sprinkler system may affect house building – something we want to encourage – so we must wait to see what impact that regulation has.”

Earlier in the Westminster Hall debate to mark Fire Sprinklers Week, he had admitted: "Sprinklers work. We know that. No one can deny it.

"They are an effective way of controlling fires and of protecting lives and property."

Paul Fuller, chief fire officer for Bedfordshire and chairman of the Fire Sector Federation, said sprinklers could have helped.

He told BBC Radio 4's World At One: "We know that sprinklers are effective. Also, sprinklers will make the environment more survivable by containing the fire and containing the smoke.

"But they are not a total solution. We also have to make sure that passive protection measures - things like the structure of the building and the fire resistance of the building - are all properly in place as well."

He added that the federation has been calling for a review of part B of the building regulations "for a number of years now" to ensure they "meet the needs of a modern society using modern methods of construction and who use buildings differently from the way we used to 30 or 40 years ago".

In 2013 the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety & Rescue Group called for a review of safety regulation after six people died and more than 20 were hurt in a 2009 blaze at Lakanal House in Camberwell.

A government spokesman said that following the Lakanal House fire, the coroner recommended the guidance relating to fire safety within the building regulations be simplified, work he said is ongoing.

The coroner also asked government to write to councils encouraging them to consider retro-fitting sprinklers, he said, adding that it had happened.

The spokesman added: “Our thoughts are with the residents and families of everyone caught up in this dreadful event. We stand ready to help in any way possible as the emergency services continue to stabilise the situation.

“The London Fire Brigade will be conducting their investigation and at this stage it would not be appropriate to comment on the cause of the fire.”

The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/grenfell-tower-fire-safety-rules-sprinklers-brandon-lewis-warn-house-building-social-housing-tory-a7790921.html)

Gavin Barwell: Theresa May's new chief of staff faces questions over delayed tower block fire safety review

Mr Barwell was housing minister when the review was again delayed, fire expert confirms


Theresa May’s new chief of staff faced questions on Wednesday over his role in a delayed fire safety review, after a deadly blaze tore through the Grenfell Tower in London.

Gavin Barwell failed to give the review the green light during his tenure as housing minister, despite it already having waited for years.

The fire expert behind a report calling for the desperately needed safety appraisal, said he had spoken to Mr Barwell earlier this year and the then-minister told him no decision on the review had been taken.

Former chief fire officer Ronnie King said: “Mr Barwell said he was still looking at it.”

Ex-MP Mr Barwell lost his ministerial job after being beaten by Labour in his Croydon constituency at the general election.

But after Ms May sacked her two chiefs of staff, Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill in the fallout of a botched campaign, Mr Barwell was hired as their replacement.

He was housing minister for 12 months before the election, but even before he came to office a review into the fire safety regulations had been outstanding for years.

It was called for by the All-Party Parliamentary Fire Safety & Rescue Group, after six people died and more than 20 were hurt in the 2009 blaze at Lakanal House in Camberwell .

But Mr King, the honorary administrative secretary of the group, said the review its report recommended had been shelved by successive ministers over the past four years.

Speaking to LBC radio, he said the group had looked at fire suppression measures in all the tower blocks with similar designs and noted that there were around 4,000 buildings with no fire sprinklers fitted.

He added: “Our group recommended that due to the speed that the fire spread in Lakanal House, that building regulations should be reviewed. It's nearly 11 years since it has been reviewed.

“Successive ministers since 2013 have said they are still looking at it.”

Mr King confirmed that earlier this year, Mr Barwell told him he was still considering the proposals.

He added: "Mr Barwell said he was still looking at it and was preparing to meet with the All-Party group. That's when the election was called and the meeting never happened.”

Hundreds of firefighters were sent to 24-storey Grenfell Tower in north Kensington, as large plumes of smoke billowed above the capital after the blaze broke out in the early hours of Wednesday morning.

Witnesses spoke of “terrifying” scenes, with some residents suggesting they heard no alarm go off when the fire began. At least 30 people have been taken to five hospitals and six are confirmed dead.

London Mayor Sadiq Khan has said there are "questions that have to be answered" after residents of the tower were told to stay in their flats in the event of a fire.

Mr Khan condemned the "bad advice" given to residents of the West London tower block that was engulfed in flames overnight, killing several inhabitants and leaving many trapped inside the burning building.

A newsletter to residents in 2014 said the "stay put" policy worked because the block had been designed according to “rigorous fire safety standards”.

The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-s-new-chief-of-staff-faced-questions-on-wednesday-over-his-role-in-a-delayed-fire-safety-a7789266.html)

Grenfell Tower cladding that may have led to fire was chosen to improve appearance of Kensington block of flats

Material would help make the flats look better from outside, planners noted

The cladding that might have led to the horrifying blaze at Grenfell Tower was added partly to improve its appearance.

During a refurbishment aimed at regeneration last year, cladding was added to the sides of the building to update its look. The cladding then seems to have helped the fire spread around the building, allowing it to destroy almost the entirety of the structure and kill people inside.

And that cladding – a low-cost way of improving the front of the building – was chosen in part so that the tower would look better when seen from the conservation areas and luxury flats that surround north Kensington, according to planning documents, as well as to insulate it.

“Due to its height the tower is visible from the adjacent Avondale Conservation Area to the south and the Ladbroke Conservation Area to the east,” a planning document for the regeneration work reads. “The changes to the existing tower will improve its appearance especially when viewed from the surrounding area.”

The document, published in 2014 and providing a full report on the works, makes repeated reference to the “appearance of the area”. That is the justification for the material used on the outside of the building, which has since been claimed to have contributed to the horror.

The materials used were chosen “to accord with the development plan by ensuring that the character and appearance of the area are preserved and living conditions of those living near the development suitably protected,” according to the same report.

A number of conditions were attached to the 2014 decision to approve the plan – many of which related specifically to the material used in the cladding, so that the council could ensure the "living conditions of those living near the development" were "suitably protected".

The council noted that the cladding would also improve insulation, helping keep sound and cold out from the building, and improve ventilation. An environmental statement said that the "primary driver behind the refurbishment" was to address the insulation and air tightness.

"The reclad materials and new windows will represent a significant improvement to the environmental performance of the building and to its physical appearance," the planning application reads. "The design of the scheme as a whole has fully considered policy requirements, expectations and aspirations, fully taking into consideration the immediate and wider surroundings, particularly focussing on creating a wider environment that works as a coherent place," another part of the same document says.

That planning application concludes with a statement that "the development will provide significant improvements to the physical appearance of the Tower, as well as the environmental performance and the amenity of its residents".

Rydon, the company behind the refurbishment work, said the cladding and other changes had been made to help with "improving thermal insulation and modernising the exterior of the building".

A statement from Rydon after the work was finished noted that "rain screen cladding, replacement windows and curtain wall façades have been fitted giving the building a fresher, modern look".

That statement included a quote from Nick Paget-Brown, the leader of the council, who remarked on how happy he was to see "first-hand how the cladding has lifted the external appearance of the tower".

That public statement after the completion made no reference to insulation, only discussing the change in the external appearance of the building.

The refurbishment work that added the cladding cost £8.6m and finished in May last year. Both before and since that time, residents have repeatedly complained about the safety of the block, but were assured that there was no problem.

Councillor Judith Blakeman said questions would now be asked in the wake of those assurances.

“If the cladding was partly responsible for the fire we need to know what the specification for the cladding was and why it suddenly just went up (in flames) in about five minutes, because it should have been fire resistant, surely,” she said.

Ms Blakeman lives across the road and said she heard about the fire at 5am on the radio.

“I just rushed outside,” she said. “Neighbours had been watching it all night, they said the cladding went up like a nightdress by a fire – it just went whoosh.

“This is obviously part of the big refurbishment that finished about a year ago.”

The tower was built in 1974. But the refurbishment work brought a number of changes – new areas were added to the building, as well as the cladding.

Experts have repeatedly warned that the addition of cladding, which is regularly used to refresh old or unsightly buildings, can help spread fire. It can work like a chimney, they have warned, bringing up air that allows it to spread across a building quickly.

Chartered surveyor and fire expert Arnold Tarling, from Hindwoods, said the process can create a 25-30mm cavity between the cladding and the insulation.

“It produces a wind tunnel and also traps any burning material between the rain cladding and the building," he said.

“So had it been insulated per se, the insulation could fall off and fall away from the building, but this is all contained inside.”

He said not all insulation used in the process is the more expensive non-flammable type.

“So basically you have got a cavity with a fire spreading behind it," he added.

Angus Law, of the BRE Centre for Fire Safety Engineering at the University of Edinburgh, said: “Early media reports suggest that this event has similarities with other fires that have occurred recently around the world.”

He added: “The UK’s regulatory framework for tall residential buildings is intended to prevent the spread of fire between floors and between apartments.

“If spread of fire does occur, as has happened at Grenfell Tower, the consequences are often catastrophic.”

Construction firm Rydon, which carried out a £8.6m refurbishment of the exterior of Grenfell Tower last year, installing cladding and new windows, said its work “met all required building control, fire regulation, and health and safety standards.”

The Independent (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-cladding-fire-cause-improve-kensington-block-flats-appearance-blaze-24-storey-west-a7789951.html)

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DCRnsuBXYAAw0bJ.jpg:large

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It is wholly the responsibility of the state to ensure that buildings like this are regulated and safe to inhabit and the government must absolutely harness some of the responsibility for what has gone on here. Their reckless deregulation and cost-cutting, coupled with the very worst excesses of capitalism - corporate irresponsibility, gentrification and greed - putting profit before people, has caused this. They have blood on their hands and if there is any justice whatsoever the individuals who failed to adequately protect this building will be charged with manslaughter.

The only people who don't want this incident politicised are those who want to defend their precious party at all costs. Well I'm sorry, but if the residents have spent several years politicising this cause - knowing full well something like this was inevitable - and continue to do so in interviews after the fact, it will be. The only people who get a monopoly on whether or not this is a political issue are the residents. And nobody else.

And finally:

874979168030785536

:rolleyes:

[bots]

if this is going to be a thread that promotes Jacks political agenda, i'm out

[Jack_]

if this is going to be a thread that promotes Jacks political agenda, i'm out

You mean the residents political agenda? For over three years? If you don't care about their concerns and what led to this that's your prerogative, I do. Bye.

[MTVN]

There will obviously be large political ramifications from this and there will need to be some accountability but there's no point engaging in finger pointing before we know any of the details. Why not wait till the enquiry has been carried out and we have some concrete information before rushing to judgements. Many of the attempts to link the Tories to this fire have been quite tenuous. That first one for example refers to a bill on private sector accommodation but wasn't this a council owned building?

And if we do insist on politicising this early then what about the newly elected Labour MP for Kensington who sits on the board of the company that carried out the refurbishment..

[Jack_]

Then she would need to be held accountable too, and if she played any major role she should resign and a by-election should be held. You know, people on the left are often accused of blindly supporting their cause and their party and never admitting when they've failed or could do things better, yet certainly in my case I condemn(ed) the Iraq War totally, understand that many of the worst examples of privatisation of public services began under the last Labour government, have not always been confident in Jeremy's leadership, think he needs to be clearer on his condemnation of the IRA, etc etc. And it just seems to me like no matter what the Tories do, literally anything, they will never, ever, ever, ever be held accountable, criticised or asked questions of by their supporters. No political party or politician is perfect (or wholly awful, to be fair), and they shouldn't be treated as such.

[Jack_]

875331044274319361

Akala a voice of reason as per usual.

[Kazanne]

There will obviously be large political ramifications from this and there will need to be some accountability but there's no point engaging in finger pointing before we know any of the details. Why not wait till the enquiry has been carried out and we have some concrete information before rushing to judgements. Many of the attempts to link the Tories to this fire have been quite tenuous. That first one for example refers to a bill on private sector accommodation but wasn't this a council owned building?

And if we do insist on politicising this early then what about the newly elected Labour MP for Kensington who sits on the board of the company that carried out the refurbishment..

Here here,people just cant wait until we know the details,all they are interested in is mud slinging and scoring points,I would say it had been refurbished so obviously was't being neglected,there would be MANY people who will have to answer questions here as to what went wrong here,there are so many people we could blame but that fire hasn't gone cold yet and people are making it political,we could also blame the fridge manufacturer,the electrics,the lack of fire alarms,the lack of sprinklers,the cladding,so many things,people are human and will make mistakes ,that happens in all walks of life,lets find these people first ,then start the blame game.And yes MTVN,it was council owned,but they may have sub-let

[MTVN]

Then she would need to be held accountable too, and if she played any major role she should resign and a by-election should be held. You know, people on the left are often accused of blindly supporting their cause and their party and never admitting when they've failed or could do things better, yet certainly in my case I condemn(ed) the Iraq War totally, understand that many of the worst examples of privatisation of public services began under the last Labour government, have not always been confident in Jeremy's leadership, think he needs to be clearer on his condemnation of the IRA, etc etc. And it just seems to me like no matter what the Tories do, literally anything, they will never, ever, ever, ever be held accountable, criticised or asked questions of by their supporters. No political party or politician is perfect (or wholly awful, to be fair), and they shouldn't be treated as such.

We will know in due course why and how this happened and I expect it will prove that there has been failures at every level of government from both political parties stretching back years.The PM has already announced there will be a full and independent public enquiry so why the rush to regurgitate articles from a year ago about a proposed amendment to a housing bill as if this never would have happened if that amendment had passed. There seems to have been an almost giddiness in some circles to attribute blame as quickly as possible and paint it as Tories 100% at fault, Labour not at all. That's why all those articles that you have posted have gone viral and shared madly by Corbyn friendly journalists and websites but not many have been so keen to discuss times when Labour governments have loosened regulations and ignored concerns.

[Jack_]

Here here,people just cant wait until we know the details,all they are interested in is mud slinging and scoring points,I would say it had been refurbished so obviously was't being neglected,there would be MANY people who will have to answer questions here as to what went wrong here,there are so many people we could blame but that fire hasn't gone cold yet and people are making it political,we could also blame the fridge manufacturer,the electrics,the lack of fire alarms,the lack of sprinklers,the cladding,so many things,people are human and will make mistakes ,that happens in all walks of life,lets find these people first ,then start the blame game.And yes MTVN,it was council owned,but they may have sub-let

As has been pointed out, it was refurbished with the cladding to make it look more appealing in the surrounding area. Gentrification in action.

The people who are making it political are the residents. Both before the fire, and after. They get to decide if now is the right time to be speaking out about it, and they have been. When repeated requests and pleas are ignored - and the company can send an email demanding that a blog be taken down purely for the protection of their own public image - serious questions need to be asked about the priorities of our society, because it seems to be profit over people. Capitalism in action.

With the exception of the fridge manufacturer all of the other things you listed can be explicitly traced back to the government. The state has a responsibility to ensure that housing regulations are being enforced and adhered to - and that legislation is sufficient and nuanced enough so as to ensure the safety of residents.

This incident is completely political. These events don't exist in a vacuum.

[Kazanne]

We will know in due course why and how this happened and I expect it will prove that there has been failures at every level of government from both political parties stretching back years.The PM has already announced there will be a full and independent public enquiry so why the rush to regurgitate articles from a year ago about a proposed amendment to a housing bill as if this never would have happened if that amendment had passed. There seems to have been an almost giddiness in some circles to attribute blame as quickly as possible and paint it as Tories 100% at fault, Labour not at all. That's why all those articles that you have posted have gone viral and shared madly by Corbyn friendly journalists and websites but not many have been so keen to discuss times when Labour governments have loosened regulations and ignored concerns.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Kizzy]

What is this... punishment for not keeping the tories in Kensington?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-latest-theresa-may-visit-jeremy-corbyn-resident-london-kensington-a7791726.html

[Kazanne]

What is this... punishment for not keeping the tories in Kensington?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/grenfell-tower-fire-latest-theresa-may-visit-jeremy-corbyn-resident-london-kensington-a7791726.html

It could have been a security risk,it could have been any reason tbh,no need to jump to the concluson she DIDN'T want to talk to them,she may well do it in her own time,but I grant you this is an ideal time to Tory bash,but people need to remember those tower blocks go back years, Corbyn,didn't meet survivors either he went to meet local residents and of course reporters.

[Ammi]

..I can completely understand why this has turned to 'politics' and anger so quickly, I mean it's just so unspeakably awful and for anyone involved directly in any way at all...(until those answers they need, do come... all of their emotions have to have a direction, so yeah anger...)...there is an accountability and that accountability may include one body or government or more than one and all will have to answer to their responsibility for the loss of those lives and the loss of those homes...I've been thinking about this constantly since it happened like most of us have and really do feel that it emphasises so much the divide of the 'haves' and the 'have not's'...I mean, what strikes me with this sought of devastation is how much it brings out a community of people all doing what they can to help..people like Leon..:hug:..the very best of people because people are good, intrinsically good and they're good no matter what their political leaning, I meant that doesn't even come into it...they see suffering, they feel suffering so they help, they do what they can and what they're able to...those who don't have much themselves even because they see that the needs of others are more....I wonder what thoughts Theresa May had when she stepped into her home last night ...could she not have given a room/some rooms to some who were only given aa sport's hall for the night after what they had been through...I mean heck, why do we have a Royal family if they can't help in times like this...what is it...over 50 bedrooms and yet not for anyone in devastation at losing their home in such a way or all of those empty London hotel rooms that could have been offered...wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have a government leader who would actually offer personal help when that personal help is needed but it's only ever offered by the 'normal' people../the general public...so many others who are in a position to help...(and may actually bear some responsibility..).. just closing their just closing their door to the nightmare, not wanting to get too close to actually live any of it themselves....yeah, anger and I really can't blame that anger at all/this country for sure is pretty screwed up...oh and I read that when Theresa May visited Grenfell Tower, he didn't even speak to any of the residents still agonising over those who are missing from human being to human being and having lost everything they own...she didn't even think them worthy of talking to...?....pffffft, whether she was Conservative/Labour or whatever party...as a human being she falls very, very short in every way.....

[smudgie]

It could have been a security risk,it could have been any reason tbh,no need to jump to the concluson she DIDN'T want to talk to them,she may well do it in her own time,but I grant you this is an ideal time to Tory bash,but people need to remember those tower blocks go back years, Corbyn,didn't meet survivors either he went to meet local residents and of course reporters.

I admire her for not inviting the press and keeping it private.

[Jack_]

We will know in due course why and how this happened and I expect it will prove that there has been failures at every level of government from both political parties stretching back years.The PM has already announced there will be a full and independent public enquiry so why the rush to regurgitate articles from a year ago about a proposed amendment to a housing bill as if this never would have happened if that amendment had passed. There seems to have been an almost giddiness in some circles to attribute blame as quickly as possible and paint it as Tories 100% at fault, Labour not at all. That's why all those articles that you have posted have gone viral and shared madly by Corbyn friendly journalists and websites but not many have been so keen to discuss times when Labour governments have loosened regulations and ignored concerns.

Well I'm not one of them. As I said, I do not blindly follow a political party - and if there were legislation introduced under Labour governments that failed to prevent this incident from occurring, then the party and ministers of the time must also burden some of the responsibility. I realise deregulation and privatisation in a lot of sectors began under the last Labour government, and I have and will always condemn it wholeheartedly. Also, I'm really not convinced that a public inquiry would actually alter what I believe to be true - that the Tories will never, ever be condemned for anything by their supporters. Only time will tell, but I'd be willing to wager now that if any responsibility is found to be laid at the feet of a Conservative minister and/or policy, the excuses will come in thick and fast. I would not for a minute try to suggest that certain people on the left aren't ridiculously dogmatic in their support for Corbyn and the Labour Party, but from my perception at least, it seems on here that it's actually Tories who are far more tribal. I just find the whole thing bizarre, because sometimes government policy is culpable for tragedies, and there's no getting away from that.

:clap1::clap1::clap1:

Do you have any response to my post or are emoticons the order of the day?

[Kizzy]

I can bash all I want her response was pathetic.. security risk my arse, she just cannot and will not communicate with the public on any level.

[Kazanne]

..I can completely understand why this has turned to 'politics' and anger so quickly, I mean it's just so unspeakably awful and for anyone involved directly in any way at all...(until those answers they need, do come... all of their emotions have to have a direction, so yeah anger...)...there is an accountability and that accountability may include one body or government or more than one and all will have to answer to their responsibility for the loss of those lives and the loss of those homes...I've been thinking about this constantly since it happened like most of us have and really do feel that it emphasises so much the divide of the 'haves' and the 'have not's'...I mean, what strikes me with this sought of devastation is how much it brings out a community of people all doing what they can to help..people like Leon..:hug:..the very best of people because people are good, intrinsically good and they're good no matter what their political leaning, I meant that doesn't even come into it...they see suffering, they feel suffering so they help, they do what they can and what they're able to...those who don't have much themselves even because they see that the needs of others are more....I wonder what thoughts Theresa May had when she stepped into her home last night ...could she not have given a room/some rooms to some who were only given aa sport's hall for the night after what they had been through...I mean heck, why do we have a Royal family if they can't help in times like this...what is it...over 50 bedrooms and yet not for anyone in devastation at losing their home in such a way or all of those empty London hotel rooms that could have been offered...wouldn't it be wonderful if we could have a government leader who would actually offer personal help when that personal help is needed but it's only ever offered by the 'normal' people../the general public...so many others who are in a position to help...(and may actually bear some responsibility..).. just closing their just closing their door to the nightmare, not wanting to get too close to actually live any of it themselves....yeah, anger and I really can't blame that anger at all/this country for sure is pretty screwed up...oh and I read that when Theresa May visited Grenfell Tower, he didn't even speak to any of the residents still agonising over those who are missing from human being to human being and having lost everything they own...she didn't even think them worthy of talking to...?....pffffft, whether she was Conservative/Labour or whatever party...as a human being she falls very, very short in every way.....

She was probably advised not to yet,we dont know,I doubt very much she would snub them personally,she could have been mobbed or it could have caused all sorts of problems,she was right at this time imo,to keep a low profile.

[DemolitionRed]

Jeremy Corbyn: Empty homes owned by rich should be 'requisitioned' for Grenfell Tower residents http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/15/jeremy-corbyn-empty-homes-owned-rich-should-requisitioned-grenfell/

[Kizzy]

She was probably advised not to yet,we dont know,I doubt very much she would snub them personally,she could have been mobbed or it could have caused all sorts of problems,she was right at this time imo,to keep a low profile.

Mobbed? What for....for being so phenomenally strong and stable? :/

[Brother Leon]

Corbyn and Khan both went up to residents and volunteers today. I saw them both. Corbyn was received warmly from people and thanked for coming. Khan was heckled a lot and was met with anger, but he handled it well generally. May had a police escort and spent her time with some firefighters as police blocked off access to them. She received a lot of yelling and asked why she won't "come to our side for once" and chants of "Weak Weak Weak" etc.

I'm not even in much of a mood for discussing how poor she is, but a leader would have at least spent a damn minute with the local community and praised them for their spirit and offered their condolences. Don't care how much she likes to be private, it's a part of leading. Look at Khan, he was booed and heckled at first from anger, but by the time he left he was applauded and thanked.

[smudgie]

Wow at McDonnell going to the unions to urge them to mobilise a million people to march in London to get Mrs May to stand down.:laugh::laugh:
Sour grapes that she beat them again.

[storybrooke]

My thoughts and prayers are with everyone affected by this tragedy :(

[arista]

SkyNewsHD has rented a Balcony
up high
on the nearby other tower
over looking the burnt tower

[arista]

https://d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/39rwLnS8SgGTOck2NH8Z_front16.jpg

https://d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/tUctQAV7SZ6WIKy2vxWJ_Times.JPG

[arista]

https://d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/ckL5zK93S1Gr7NpGxb9p_express.JPG

[Kizzy]

Excellent article here regarding 'regulation', 'red tape' cutting and 'health and safety' those words are usually said with scorn as they represent some hold ups for business,they were removed and guess what?...it killed people.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/jun/15/grenfell-tower-red-tape-safety-deregulation

[Beso]

Then she would need to be held accountable too, and if she played any major role she should resign and a by-election should be held. You know, people on the left are often accused of blindly supporting their cause and their party and never admitting when they've failed or could do things better, yet certainly in my case I condemn(ed) the Iraq War totally, understand that many of the worst examples of privatisation of public services began under the last Labour government, have not always been confident in Jeremy's leadership, think he needs to be clearer on his condemnation of the IRA, etc etc. And it just seems to me like no matter what the Tories do, literally anything, they will never, ever, ever, ever be held accountable, criticised or asked questions of by their supporters. No political party or politician is perfect (or wholly awful, to be fair), and they shouldn't be treated as such.

All those dead and all you want is a resignation.:sad:

[Cherie]

Shameful that the outside was tarted up but safety ignored, in truth there probably would have been fewer if no fatalities without the cladding as the fire wouldn't have taken hold, it's desperately sad

[JTM45]

All those dead and all you want is a resignation.:sad:

Definitely not ''all'' that's wanted but May's resignation would be a good start. About time she made herself accountable to someone other than those 'poor' Tory MP's who's seats she lost for them.

[Kazanne]

On the news now,In 1999 Labour were in power and asked about safety of these tower blocks and nothing was done and seems it has just gone on and on, seems there will be a few to 'blame' in this.

[DemolitionRed]

All those dead and all you want is a resignation.:sad:

James O'Brian LBC radio-
Politicising The Grenfell Tower Fire Is Crucial. If you don't think this is already political, absolutely, irredeemably and completely political, then I'm afraid you inhabit a planet I do not recognize.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/politicising-grenfell-tower-fire-james-obrien/

[Crimson Dynamo]

James O'Brian LBC radio-
Politicising The Grenfell Tower Fire Is Crucial. If you don't think this is already political, absolutely, irredeemably and completely political, then I'm afraid you inhabit a planet I do not recognize.
http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/politicising-grenfell-tower-fire-james-obrien/

Job is a champagne socialist troll and no one apart from his band of radical left wing apologists takes him seriously

[user104658]

If the US deemed this stuff unsafe for use on high rise buildings... then it's not even a matter of "safety tests should have been done". They knew it wasn't safe for use in high rise buildings. Obviously an official investigation needs to be done but it seems pretty clear that it's the cladding, specifically, that turned a small everyday domestic fire into a whole building going up like a box of matches. How was it every approved? How many high-rise buildings in the UK are covered in it?