If Corbyn fans continue hero worship they will ruin it for him

[Brillopad]

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/jeremy-corbyn-fan-club-labour-party-general-election-popularity-youth-vote-a7793731.html

He is right. It is all getting a bit sycophanty now - they are in danger of either creating a monster ego or of making people so sick of hearing his name and seeing that smirk that they will vote against him just to get rid. It is all becoming very childish.

[Toy Soldier]

No that's u

[Brother Leon]

We're good. We are happy having a politician we can believe in and be proud of supporting. The rest can do as they wish.

[JTM45]

We're good. We are happy having a politician we can believe in and be proud of supporting. The rest can do as they wish.

Well said Leon!!! :clap1:

[the truth]

the left are basically a wild lawless vigilante mob now. They will resort to endless violence to try and get their way, these are very very dangerous times now

[Kizzy]

Not sure why social policies offend people so bad :/
If you don't support him fine, you do you. I reserve the right to support who I like as much as I like.

[DemolitionRed]

How anyone could fear real political choice is beyond me. The only thing May represents is political philosophy.

Richard Murphy wrote a recent blog saying: "Thatcher put it in a nutshell, of course. She said there was no such thing as society. And she meant it. Neoliberalism says there are only markets and contractual relationships. But no obligations. No duty. No care. Just mercenary relationships. And this difference, or rather the indifference of neoliberalism as opposed to the care of genuine social democracy is back on the political agenda now. We saw it on June 8. People did not embrace May because they knew she that did not embrace them.

[JTM45]

the left are basically a wild lawless vigilante mob now. They will resort to endless violence to try and get their way, these are very very dangerous times now

Your mind appears to exist in some sort of warped alt-reality!

The most dangerous thing going on here in the UK currently is the prospect of a Tory/DUP Government with the woefully incapable Theresa May at the helm combined with Brexit.
A recipe for disaster for the good people of a once 'Great' Britain!:facepalm:

[Brillopad]

Not sure why social policies offend people so bad :/
If you don't support him fine, you do you. I reserve the right to support who I like as much as I like.

Fans are blinded by his promises - some of which it looks unlikely he will be able to keep. He is not the Messiah and those acting as though he is not only look silly they will damage him. Be my guest. :hee:

[Withano]

Imagine being so discontent with every political party that you dont see any leader as a hero. Kinda pity that.

[Brillopad]

Imagine being so discontent with every political party that you dont see any leader as a hero. Kinda pity that.

It is a pity - but at least it is keeping it real.

How long have we had political parties and how often do every side break election promises - but still there are those that will believe in the 'second-coming' that will be the exception to the rule. Talking about coming down with a bang.

[Withano]

Fans are blinded by his promises - some of which it looks unlikely he will be able to keep.
. :hee:

I honestly dont think you know how any of this works

[Withano]

It is a pity.

Its kinda cute when we agree on stuff though. Hope you find faith in some political leader at some point in the future :fc:

[Brillopad]

I honestly dont think you know how any of this works

Don't I. Alright he will give you all everything you want - if that makes you feel better. Just be ready for a few bruises when you come back down to earth.

[Brillopad]

Its kinda cute when we agree on stuff though. Hope you find faith in some political leader at some point in the future :fc:

I have faith - in the Tories. What you see is what you get. :hee:

[Kazanne]

Watching him on Peston now,trying to avoid answering questions about Labour not investing in those tower blocks when Labour were in power and being rather sanctimonious about the question about TM,I wonder if he has given a room to any of those people affected by this yet ? he is pushing the tower inferno for his agenda isn't he,lol.

[Withano]

Don't I. Alright he will give you all everything you want - if that makes you feel better. Just be ready for a few bruises when you come back down to earth.

You literally have no idea. How are you so heavily invested in this.

[Withano]

Watching him on Peston now,trying to avoid answering questions about Labour not investing in those tower blocks when Labour were in power and being rather sanctimonious about the question about TM,I wonder if he has given a room to any of those people affected by this yet ? he is pushing the tower inferno for his agenda isn't he,lol.

Good God

[Crimson Dynamo]

can you imagine what the left of center Tibbers would have been like when Tony Blair was emerging? I feel sorry for them that this generation gets a poundland version of TB. He reminds me a lot of

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1175000/images/_1179145_mikefoot150.jpg

[Brillopad]

Watching him on Peston now,trying to avoid answering questions about Labour not investing in those tower blocks when Labour were in power and being rather sanctimonious about the question about TM,I wonder if he has given a room to any of those people affected by this yet ? he is pushing the tower inferno for his agenda isn't he,lol.

He is indeed - and May is getting criticised - at least she isn't using it for political gain.

[Withano]

can you imagine what the left of center Tibbers would have been like when Tony Blair was emerging? I feel sorry for them that this generation gets a poundland version of TB. He reminds me a lot of

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1175000/images/_1179145_mikefoot150.jpg

Blair was far more similar to May than Corbyn. I dont think either one of us understands your point.

[Brillopad]

can you imagine what the left of center Tibbers would have been like when Tony Blair was emerging? I feel sorry for them that this generation gets a poundland version of TB. He reminds me a lot of

http://news.bbc.co.uk/olmedia/1175000/images/_1179145_mikefoot150.jpg

Poundland - very apt. :joker:

[joeysteele]

Watching him on Peston now,trying to avoid answering questions about Labour not investing in those tower blocks when Labour were in power and being rather sanctimonious about the question about TM,I wonder if he has given a room to any of those people affected by this yet ? he is pushing the tower inferno for his agenda isn't he,lol.

Crying out loud.

How long has your govt been in power now.

Are you ever going to ask why this your govt went for cheaper cladding just 3 or 4 years ago as to these blocks despite warnings.
Or is it fine by you in your desire to blame previous govts and never this one for them cutting corners endlessly Cons to allow risks to safety.

Unbelievable.

[Brillopad]

Crying out loud.

How long has your govt been in power now.

Are you ever going to ask why this your govt went for cheaper cladding just 3 or 4 years ago as to these blocks despite warnings.
Or is it fine by you in your desire to blame previous govts and never this one for them cutting corners endlessly Cons to allow risks to safety.

Unbelievable.

What about sprinklers - they had never had any. How long has the tower been there and how long ago were Labour in government - do the sums. There is blame on both sides.

I couldn't believe they had no sprinklers and had never had them - in a tower block - it's criminal.

[Kazanne]

Crying out loud.

How long has your govt been in power now.

Are you ever going to ask why this your govt went for cheaper cladding just 3 or 4 years ago as to these blocks despite warnings.
Or is it fine by you in your desire to blame previous govts and never this one for them cutting corners endlessly Cons to allow risks to safety.

Unbelievable.

I blame them ALL including the councils,builders etc, :shrug: but IF labour had invested when it was put to them,this might not have happened,people are quick enough to point the finger at this government so why not the government that was in power when their safety was first raised . They are ALL at fault from the bottom to the top.you know what they say " A stitch in time saves nine".

[Withano]

Wasnt it May's advisor that recently put money into those blocks and opted for flammable cladding instead of sprinklers? Like this discussion should have been over with donkeys ago.

[Brillopad]

Wasnt it May's advisor that recently put money into those blocks and opted for flammable cladding instead of sprinklers? Like this discussion should have been over with donkeys ago.


They should have gone in year's ago - long before the tories were in government more recently.

[Withano]

They should have gone in year's ago - long before the tories were in government more recently.

But you surely see how when actively looking for ways to spend money on a building... like May's advisor literally was... this isnt hypothetical.. he recently looked for ways to spend money on that building.. and opted for flammable cladding instead of literally anything else.. you surely see how that one mans decision drastically shaped the outcome.. surely. Surely?

The flammable cladding wasnt there before he put money into that building.. his personal actions literally made the tower burn from top to bottom. You get this, right? F-l-a-m-m-a-b-l-e cladding.

[Toy Soldier]

I don't get this desperation to blame the current Labour opposition for the actions of the last Labour government - nearly a decade ago? It's almost entirely irrelevant to be honest.

Like I wouldn't even blame May for the actions of Cameron's Tories (except where she had direct involvement in the cabinet) and she's his direct successor.

Its clutching at straws, surely.

[Brillopad]

But you surely see how when actively looking for ways to spend money on a building... like May's advisor literally was... this isnt hypothetical.. he recently looked for ways to spend money on that building.. and opted for flammable cladding instead of literally anything else.. you surely see how that one mans decision drastically shaped the outcome.. surely. Surely?

The flammable cladding wasnt there before he put money into that building.. his personal actions literally made the tower burn from top to bottom. You get this, right? F-l-a-m-m-a-b-l-e cladding.

He didn't knowingly pick flammable cladding, to imply he did is laughable and intentionally inflammatory. How many did know that, if any. Without sprinklers the casualty rate would not have been as bad. I did say that both parties were to blame, tories included, because they are.

[Kazanne]

But you surely see how when actively looking for ways to spend money on a building... like May's advisor literally was... this isnt hypothetical.. he recently looked for ways to spend money on that building.. and opted for flammable cladding instead of literally anything else.. you surely see how that one mans decision drastically shaped the outcome.. surely. Surely?

The flammable cladding wasnt there before he put money into that building.. his personal actions literally made the tower burn from top to bottom. You get this, right? F-l-a-m-m-a-b-l-e cladding.

Watch my lips IF when Labour were asked to invest in the safety of that building all those years ago, sprinklers etc would have been installed,they DIDN'T invest,so all these years later their bad judgement led to the building not being safe,but hey ho it's ok the government now can take the wrap,but that is labours calling card isn't it. We could blame any number of things,the fridge manufacturer,the guy who had the fridge, the cladding ,the electrics,it's a collective blame game NOT just one set of people.OK,got it,get it,good.

[Kazanne]

He didn't knowingly pick flammable cladding, to imply he did is laughable and intentionally inflammatory. How many did know that, if any. Without sprinklers the casualty rate would not have been as bad. I did say that both parties were to blame, tories included, because they are.

Exactly :wavey:In other words if EVERYONE had done their jobs properly it may no have happened,but it has,so let the investigation begin.

[jet]

Watch my lips IF when Labour were asked to invest in the safety of that building all those years ago, sprinklers etc would have been installed,they DIDN'T invest,so all these years later their bad judgement led to the building not being safe,but hey ho it's ok the government now can take the wrap,but that is labours calling card isn't it. We could blame any number of things,the fridge manufacturer,the guy who had the fridge, the cladding ,the electrics,it's a collective blame game NOT just one set of people.OK,got it,get it,good.

:clap2: Thank goodness for some common sense.

[smudgie]

No doubt there will be some blame on all sides.
But until we know any actual facts it's pointless pointing a finger at anybody.
Why was the cladding passed as fit for use and by whom was it passed by is the first thing that I would want to know.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i am still betting that indeed all regs were observed.

not that that means much

[joeysteele]

I blame them ALL including the councils,builders etc, :shrug: but IF labour had invested when it was put to them,this might not have happened,people are quick enough to point the finger at this government so why not the government that was in power when their safety was first raised . They are ALL at fault from the bottom to the top.you know what they say " A stitch in time saves nine".

They've been in power for 7 years Kazanne, they've had plenty of time to review safety.
I see you avoid that it's this govt who chose cheaper cladding in these blocks,not Labour.

I got sick of Labour blaming the Cons at times after being in power for 5 years or more by 2002.

It is ridiculous now looking back and only blaming Labour for underinvestment on this when they've been our of power for over 7 years.

This govt has done absolutely nothing to address safety on this issue, and even took the dangerous cheaper option as to cladding too despite new warnings.
You can ignore that all you like and just fire off from your hate of Labour.
It doesn't change the fact this govt had done nothing on this for 7 years and endangered as much as if not more.

Even Mrs May has been forced too to admit the response to this tragedy was too slow again I see no criticism of that from you or those hell bent on just blaming Labour for all that's bad.while sidestepping this govts endless list of faults.

Totally ridiculous in my view.
I give up with you I thought you fairer than that,unbelievable.

[Withano]

He didn't knowingly pick flammable cladding, to imply he did is laughable and intentionally inflammatory. How many did know that, if any. Without sprinklers the casualty rate would not have been as bad. I did say that both parties were to blame, tories included, because they are.

He chose the cheaper, flammable cladding as opposed to the more expensive, non-flammable cladding for the sake of saving 5k, yes. I dont think either parties are to blame personally.

[Withano]

Watch my lips IF when Labour were asked to invest in the safety of that building all those years ago, sprinklers etc would have been installed,they DIDN'T invest,so all these years later their bad judgement led to the building not being safe,but hey ho it's ok the government now can take the wrap,but that is labours calling card isn't it. We could blame any number of things,the fridge manufacturer,the guy who had the fridge, the cladding ,the electrics,it's a collective blame game NOT just one set of people.OK,got it,get it,good.

Are you drunk? Youve literally blamed Labour throughout posts on several different threads.

[Brillopad]

They've been in power for 7 years Kazanne, they've had plenty of time to review safety.
I see you avoid that it's this govt who chose cheaper cladding in these blocks,not Labour.

I got sick of Labour blaming the Cons at times after being in power for 5 years or more by 2002.

It is ridiculous now looking back and only blaming Labour for underinvestment on this when they've been our of power for over 7 years.

This govt has done absolutely nothing to address safety on this issue, and even took the dangerous cheaper option as to cladding too despite new warnings.
You can ignore that all you like and just fire off from your hate of Labour.
It doesn't change the fact this govt had done nothing on this for 7 years and endangered as much as if not more.

Even Mrs May has been forced too to admit the response to this tragedy was too slow again I see no criticism of that from you or those he'll bent on just blaming Labour forball that's bad.while sidestepping this govts endless list of faults.

Totally ridiculous in my view.

If Labour chose not to put in sprinklers, an obvious fire safety system in tower blocks, then who can say whether they would/wouldn't have chosen cheaper cladding. They showed no more concern for fire safety than the Tories are being accused of.

[joeysteele]

Are you drunk? Youve literally blamed Labour throughout posts on several different threads.

Totally right Withano,all the way.

[Brillopad]

Are you drunk? Youve literally blamed Labour throughout posts on several different threads.

Kaz blamed everyone involved, including the tories, unlike some. Twisting/ignoring people's words won't achieve your end goal - due to others being able to read.

[Brillopad]

Totally right Withano,all the way.

Totally wrong all the way!

[Kazanne]

Are you drunk? Youve literally blamed Labour throughout posts on several different threads.

NO,I have just put it on a level playing field,I was defending the goverment of today when they and they alone were taking all the blame,the neglect started from somewhere and that was back in 1999 !!!! I assure you if I was drunk,you would of gotten the reply you deserved.

[Kazanne]

Totally right Withano,all the way.

Read my posts again Joey,I have not just blamed them.

[Brillopad]

He chose the cheaper, flammable cladding as opposed to the more expensive, non-flammable cladding for the sake of saving 5k, yes. I dont think either parties are to blame personally.

You know as a fact do you that he chose cheaper cladding whilst been fully aware of its flammability. He likely chose the cheaper cladding for other reasons without any knowledge of how flammable it was.

[Withano]

NO,I have just put it on a level playing field,I was defending the goverment of today when they and they alone were taking all the blame,the neglect started from somewhere and that was back in 1999 !!!! I assure you if I was drunk,you would of gotten the reply you deserved.

I dont completely understand the aggressive tone in your posts. Puts you in a terrible light. I also dont understand how you think a fridge can set an entire tower ablaze without the help of flammable cladding that surrounded the building. That wasnt a tory decision, wasnt a labour decision, that was one mans decision.

[Brillopad]

NO,I have just put it on a level playing field,I was defending the goverment of today when they and they alone were taking all the blame,the neglect started from somewhere and that was back in 1999 !!!! I assure you if I was drunk,you would of gotten the reply you deserved.

I almost wish you had been drunk! :joker::joker::joker::joker:

[Withano]

You know as a fact do you that he chose cheaper cladding whilst been fully aware of its flammability. He likely chose the cheaper cladding for other reasons without any knowledge of how flammable it was.

I dont know, only he knows that, and he wouldnt admit it if he did. Either him being cheap, him doing poor research, or him prioritising the way a building looked appose to its safety caused the fire that was. The fire would have died down without the cladding, and thats a fact.

[Brillopad]

I dont completely understand the aggressive tone in your posts. Puts you in a terrible light. I also dont understand how you think a fridge can set an entire tower ablaze without the help of flammable cladding that surrounded the building. That wasnt a tory decision, wasnt a labour decision, that was one mans decision.

No-one said it wasn't flammable - show me where they did. What was said was that most were not even aware of that. We don't know anyone was.

[Brillopad]

I dont know, only he knows that, and he wouldnt admit it if he did. Either him being cheap, him doing poor research, or him prioritising the way a building looked appose to its safety caused the fire that was. The fire would have died down without the cladding, and thats a fact.

The cladding was flammable - we all know that NOW. Without the benefit of hindsight or mind-reading abilities this was not known at the time.

[Withano]

The cladding was flammable - we all know that NOW. Without the benefit of hindsight or mind-reading abilities this was not known at the time.

Right. so thats to blame? Clearly. Like I said in my first post on the discussion. The f-l-a-m-m-a-b-l-e cladding caused the fire that was, and sure, we know that in hindsight - I'll give you that much. I just dont understand the finger pointing to labour or tories, it was this one element. Clearly.

[Kazanne]

I dont completely understand the aggressive tone in your posts. Puts you in a terrible light. I also dont understand how you think a fridge can set an entire tower ablaze without the help of flammable cladding that surrounded the building. That wasnt a tory decision, wasnt a labour decision, that was one mans decision.

You dont know what was beside that fridge or in that room :shrug: the fridge was by the window apparently,perhaps curtains caught alight,perhaps other stuff was by it we dont know,let the investigtion give us answers instead of summising.Oh,and I am not aggresive,was it not you that got personal?

[Withano]

You dont know what was beside that fridge or in that room :shrug: the fridge was by the window apparently,perhaps curtains caught alight,perhaps other stuff was by it we dont know,let the investigtion give us answers instead of summising.Oh,and I am not aggresive,was it not you that got personal?

No I didnt get personal, please quote where you think I did get personal and I'll apologise if I see where youre coming from.

and sure lots of rooms have flammable stuff in it - but the tower - the actual building - set alight because of the flammable cladding that surrounded it. Like obviously. Would have been a huge fluke for the entire building to set alight because of a curtain, lol.

[Brillopad]

Right. so thats to blame? Clearly. Like I said in my first post on the discussion. The f-l-a-m-m-a-b-l-e cladding caused the fire that was, and sure, we know that in hindsight - I'll give you that much. I just dont understand the finger pointing to labour or tories, it was this one element. Clearly.

It wasn't because an effective sprinkler system would have limited the spread/speed of the spread of three fire and enabled more people to get out.

Both the cladding and a lack of a sprinkler system hughly contributed to the amount of deaths - it stands to reason.

[Withano]

It wasn't because an effective sprinkler system would have limited the spread/speed of the spread of three fire and enabled more people to get out.

Both the cladding and a lack of a sprinkler system hughly contributed to the amount of deaths - it stands to reason.

The cladding was obviously the main cause, because that set the entire building alight very fast. That killed a large (still unknown) figure

Had the cladding not been there, a sprinkler being in the hall might have saved one or two lives, but the lack of a sprinkler would not have killed hundreds. Several buildings have fires and no sprinklers and result in little to no deaths because they dont burn up in flames in sheer minutes, giving victims ample opportunity to get out.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No I didnt get personal, please quote where you think I did get personal and I'll apologise if I see where youre coming from.

and sure lots of rooms have flammable stuff in it - but the tower - the actual building - set alight because of the flammable cladding that surrounded it. Like obviously. Would have been a huge fluke for the entire building to set alight because of a curtain, lol.

YOu accused Kaz of being drunk, which is pretty low

[Withano]

YOu accused Kaz of being drunk, which is pretty low

Lots of people get drunk. Being unnecessarily aggressive, and making an argument against herself is a sign that Kaz might have been one of them. Sorry if you were offended by that Kaz.

[the truth]

This communist hates the UK and wants to bring us down ...open borders, sharia law, friends to hamas and the ira, massive rises in population, which in turn will destroy jobs for the working classes, who in turn will be on more benefits booze and drugs...which will swell the treasury expenditure and lose them billions in lost taxes too....His plan is the plan of a boy written on the back of a matchbox....But of course it sells well to impressionable overly idealistic kids who dont see complexities or shades of grey they just see a nice man in a white beard offering them free sweets....mammy always taught me never to take sweets off strange old men

[DemolitionRed]

Good God

Good God indeed... Labour haven't run Kensington since 1974

[DemolitionRed]

Jesus wept... this is such a depressing place sometimes.

[Toy Soldier]

....But of course it sells well to impressionable overly idealistic kids who dont see complexities or shades of grey they just see a nice man in a white beard offering them free sweets....mammy always taught me never to take sweets off strange old men

Nah, Brillo disproved that in another thread, showing youth turnout wasn't as high as previously thought.

[the truth]

Jesus wept... this is such a depressing place sometimes.

socialists call it depressing, the rest of the world calls it honesty