Brexit talks discussion thread

[Kizzy]

The talks have begun, with recent events it has taken a backseat but they have new formally started. Here is a live link to the ongoing discussion.... It's going to be a bumpy ride.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/finsbury-park-attack-terrorism-offences-man-suspect-police-charges-attempted-murder-latest-news-a7797826.html

[Kizzy]

Summery of Labours position by Keir Starmer

'The prime minister’s failure to secure a mandate or a majority has also caused huge uncertainty about the government’s Brexit approach. The chancellor clearly advocates a softening of strategy. Yet Brexiteers in the cabinet and on Conservative backbenches will fiercely oppose any such change of emphasis. May lacks the authority to either drive through her stated Brexit approach or to change course. In the weeks to come she will have to choose. No wonder the German foreign minister has spoken of a “difficult, even impossible situation”, where the prime minister is “without clear majorities and [a] clear negotiation strategy”.

The belligerent approach May has adopted has also served to weaken our relations with the EU, alienated our allies and left Britain short of goodwill acrossEurope. This really matters, because, if we are to deliver a Brexit deal that works for Britain and delivers a strong new partnership with the EU, we will need to work with and not against the other 27 member states.'

[Crimson Dynamo]

David seems to have kicked of in an amiable way

[Kazanne]

Is this going to be a debate thread about Brexit ,or another Tory bashing thread ?

[Kizzy]

Could we stick to the topic in discussion please? I don't want the thread derailed.

[arista]

1st day of talks
went very well
The French minister has said

http://news.sky.com/story/chief-brexit-negotiators-reveal-timetable-10920653

[Brillopad]

Could we stick to the topic in discussion please? I don't want the thread derailed.

It's a good thread. It would be good to have serious discussion on it.

[Kazanne]

Could we stick to the topic in discussion please? I don't want the thread derailed.

Yes,lets hope so,it should be interesting :wavey:

[joeysteele]

The story will be in the final detail.
Really it should be all Party negotiations not just 2.

However this will be a long wait and see process,which I doubt will end that we'll but would hope for a reasonable outcome.

David Davis would not be my choice to lead things but he actually,if he does a good job here,get the Con leadership out of this.
He is a better face of Conservatism in my view.

This is a real hard task for anyone to take on, an ongoing mess so good luck to the team doing it I guess.

[Jack_]

Is this going to be a debate thread about Brexit ,or another Tory bashing thread ?

With all due respect it's the Conservatives who are leading the Brexit negotiations and they and the other parties have very different visions of what we should get out of them, and with the makeup of this parliament it's highly likely the other parties will play a significant role in scrutinising the negotiations

I don't see how party politics can be avoided

[Brillopad]

With all due respect it's the Conservatives who are leading the Brexit negotiations and they and the other parties have very different visions of what we should get out of them, and with the makeup of this parliament it's highly likely the other parties will play a significant role in scrutinising the negotiations

I don't see how party politics can be avoided

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/818422/Brexit-latest-Philip-Hammond-hard-soft-brexit-single-market-customs-union-EU

We are leaving and that also means the single market. It's a done deal.

[Kizzy]

Do we actually have a govt yet thinking about it? There is no formal coalition is there?

[Crimson Dynamo]

note hard and soft brexit did not exist prior to the vote

[Jack_]

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/818422/Brexit-latest-Philip-Hammond-hard-soft-brexit-single-market-customs-union-EU

We are leaving and that also means the single market. It's a done deal.

Who said we aren't leaving? Once again, I don't think you've read my post properly. We may be leaving but the terms of our departure is what is about to be negotiated, and they go much further than whether or not we remain in the single market. It's a complex process, regardless of how eager you are for them to just put their middle fingers up to Juncker, walk out of the negotiating chamber and think that's it, we're out. This government's faux majority is wafer thin and if you don't think that the Europhile Tory backbanchers will make life difficult for the PM you're kidding yourself. Mayhem wanted a carte blanche mandate to do what she liked, she hasn't got one - and sooner rather than later she'll have to start listening to and compromising with backbenchers and other parties. Also, The Express isn't news.

[Brillopad]

Who said we aren't leaving? Once again, I don't think you've read my post properly. We may be leaving but the terms of our departure is what is about to be negotiated, and they go much further than whether or not we remain in the single market. It's a complex process, regardless of how eager you are for them to just put their middle fingers up to Juncker, walk out of the negotiating chamber and think that's it, we're out. This government's faux majority is wafer thin and if you don't think that the Europhile Tory backbanchers will make life difficult for the PM you're kidding yourself. Mayhem wanted a carte blanche mandate to do what she liked, she hasn't got one - and sooner rather than later she'll have to start listening to and compromising with backbenchers and other parties. Also, The Express isn't news.

I post a variety of sources which is more than some others can say. There is nothing wrong with the Express as it's articles are fact-based. You saying it isn't news is just the usual attempt to undermine any source that doesn't suit you. :nono:

[Jack_]

I post a variety of sources which is more than some others can say. There is nothing wrong with the Express as it's articles are fact-based. You saying it isn't news is just the usual attempt to undermine any source that doesn't suit you. :nono:

I read plenty of sources I don't agree with, including The Times and The Telegraph. The idea that The Express is 'fact based' is laughable, alternative facts maybe? Tabloids should be treated with caution, and yes that includes The Mirror.

Anyway, why did you choose to concentrate on the last five words instead of the rest of my post?

[Brillopad]

I read plenty of sources I don't agree with, including The Times and The Telegraph. The idea that The Express is 'fact based' is laughable, alternative facts maybe? Tabloids should be treated with caution, and yes that includes The Mirror.

Anyway, why did you choose to concentrate on the last five words instead of the rest of my post?

Of course it will be a long drawn out complicated process that will involve many but, if like some, you are hoping for a Brexit, moulded and watered down to such an extent it would meet Corbyn's 'standards' I think you will be disappointed.

[Jack_]

Of course it will be a long drawn out complicated process that will involve many but, if like some, you are hoping for a Brexit, moulded and watered down to such an extent it would meet Corbyn's 'standards' I think you will be disappointed.

You are aware that until the referendum campaign Corbyn was a life long Eurosceptic aren't you? And that Theresa May campaigned to remain? She can ham up her 'no deal is better than a bad deal' all she likes, but beneath the surface of party politics he is more opposed to the EU than she is, just for completely different reasons. I also don't get what's 'watered down' about his (or rather Labour's) vision of Brexit - they ran on a manifesto that pledged to leave the single market. You do know this right?

I think the only person that is going to be disappointed is you, and it won't be other parties trying to water down your vision of Brexit - it'll primarily be Tory backbenchers. Only time will tell, but I'd wager that I'll be proven right on this (and I'll be happy to admit if I wasn't - will you?). I'm not sure why you're making assumptions about what I'd prefer anyway - in some respects I'd like this government to push on with the reckless agenda they're seeking, because the inevitable disastrous fallout will hopefully bury the Tories for a generation.

[Kizzy]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-talks-negotiations-latest-uk-eu-divorce-deal-government-agrees-caves-in-before-trade-deal-a7798076.html

What is significant here? Well I would say the onus on Ireland and the good friday agreement, the DUP will want some manipulation on that and the govt is in no position to honour it.