Mother accused school of slavery

[Brillopad]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4635394/School-accused-slavery-focing-boy-wash-dishes.html

I don't really see the issue here. I feel it is a cultural thing with the mother specifically objecting to her son having to wash dishes. I doubt she would have had the same issues if it had been her daughter.

If so, we cannot condone cultural sexism and double standards like this in British schools.

[VanessaFeltz.]

the issue in this topic is not about a boy washing dishes as a punishment, it is about a 12 year old CHILDREN washing dishes. I am with the mom on this one, i dont know how the boy behaved in school but i dont think washing dishes for weeks is a good punishment.

[Brillopad]

the issue in this topic is not about a boy washing dishes as a punishment, it is about a 12 year old CHILDREN washing dishes. I am with the mom on this one, i dont know how the boy behaved in school but i dont think washing dishes for weeks is a good punishment.

Fair enough - but I still feel that a large part of her outrage was about her son being expected to do 'women's work'.

[Kizzy]

Nothing to do with his gender or culture, it's simply not a fitting punishment. It is more likely to be a cost cutting exercise you don't have to employ a pot washer if you can get the students to do it.

[AnnieK]

Nothing to do with his gender or culture, it's simply not a fitting punishment. It is more likely to be a cost cutting exercise you don't have to employ a pot washer if you can get the students to do it.

Yup agree with this

[smudgie]

Looks like it is a last resort.
If the little darling can't behave and his mother whinges about his punishment then throw him out.
Washing pots is hardly ruddy slavery, and the thought that it is a cost saving exercise on the schools behalf is laughable:joker:

[Brillopad]

Looks like it is a last resort.
If the little darling can't behave and his mother whinges about his punishment then throw him out.
Washing pots is hardly ruddy slavery, and the thought that it is a cost saving exercise on the schools behalf is laughable:joker:

I agree smudgie. I don't think it is an unreasonable punishment, probably preferable to detention and keeping them after school. I can't help feeling that both the son and the mother felt aggrieved he was being expected to do what is 'expected' of women.

If the majority of parents are ok with it then I think the mother should accept it or be asked to move her son elsewhere.

[Toy Soldier]

Brillo there is absolutely nothing in that article that suggests that this is a cultural issue and that "she would have been fine with it if it was a girl". This is an assumption that you are making PURELY based on their name and appearance. Honestly, your prejudice grows by the day it seems.

[Brillopad]

Brillo there is absolutely nothing in that article that suggests that this is a cultural issue and that "she would have been fine with it if it was a girl". This is an assumption that you are making PURELY based on their name and appearance. Honestly, your prejudice grows by the day it seems.

It's easy to throw that allegation about in cases like this - but have you heard anyone else complain about this. Of course I could be wrong, but her OTT reaction suggests otherwise. Which is why I said if the majority of parents are okay with it, then clearly the problem lies with her and her son.

If other parents do object and they are all of the same culture what message would that give out in your opinion then.

[Kizzy]

You have no knowledge of how other parents feel about it, I wonder how the pot washer feels about is?.... They're out of a job due to these pesky meddling kids :fist:

[Toy Soldier]

It's easy to throw that allegation about in cases like this - but have you heard anyone else complain about this. Of course I could be wrong, but her OTT reaction suggests otherwise. Which is why I said if the majority of parents are okay with it, then clearly the problem lies with her and her son.

If other parents do object and they are all of the same culture what message would that give out in your opinion then.

Where in the article does it say that other parents all of the same culture also object or that no one of other cultures objects?

In fact, where does the article say anything g about her culture AT ALL?

All of this is pure guesswork based on your prejudice after reading a name and seeing a picture.

[Kizzy]

Where in the article does it say that other parents all of the same culture also object or that no one of other cultures objects?

In fact, where does the article say anything g about her culture AT ALL?

All of this is pure guesswork based on your prejudice after reading a name and seeing a picture.

:clap2:

[Brillopad]

Where in the article does it say that other parents all of the same culture also object or that no one of other cultures objects?

In fact, where does the article say anything g about her culture AT ALL?

All of this is pure guesswork based on your prejudice after reading a name and seeing a picture.

I said If because we don't know. The woman thinks her son's human rights have been violated for washing up as a punishment for bad behaviour for heaven's sake. If that's not OTT I don't know what is. It sounds like someone with an agenda to me.

[Toy Soldier]

I said If because we don't know. The woman thinks her son's human rights have been violated for washing up as a punishment for bad behaviour for heaven's sake. If that's not OTT I don't know what is. It sounds like someone with an agenda to me.
Yes, exactly, we don't know, we have absolutely no idea, but you have made "confident" guesses at her reasoning based on her name and her sons appearance.

You then went on to try to justify it by guessing that there might be hypothetical other people with the same hypothetical culture who would probably feel the same way, you think, based on pretty much nothing at all.

That is the definition of prejudice.

[Brillopad]

Yes, exactly, we don't know, we have absolutely no idea, but you have made "confident" guesses at her reasoning based on her name and her sons appearance.

You then went on to try to justify it by guessing that there might be hypothetical other people with the same hypothetical culture who would probably feel the same way, you think, based on pretty much nothing at all.

That is the definition of prejudice.

You would think she would be happier her son wasn't be kept after school - as a mother of three I know I would and just about every other mother I know.

Time will tell but if she does try taking such a trivial matter further then my theory that she has an agenda would gain some strength.

[Withano]

Where in the article does it say that other parents all of the same culture also object or that no one of other cultures objects?

In fact, where does the article say anything g about her culture AT ALL?

All of this is pure guesswork based on your prejudice after reading a name and seeing a picture.

This is all true

[Kizzy]

You would think she would be happier her son wasn't be kept after school - as a mother of three I know I would and just about every other mother I know.

Time will tell but if she does try taking such a trivial matter further then my theory that she has an agenda would gain some strength.

:/ no I hated the thought especially on dark nights of my kids having to travel alone after their friends had left for the day at 11-12.
If I had found out it was to wash up I would have been furious, so whatever theory you have, know that I agree with this woman entirely.

[Toy Soldier]

You would think she would be happier her son wasn't be kept after school - as a mother of three I know I would and just about every other mother I know.

Time will tell but if she does try taking such a trivial matter further then my theory that she has an agenda would gain some strength.
No, it wouldn't. In your mind it would confirm what you already believe to be true because of your racial prejudice.

I know an absolute TONNE of crunchy vegan mummies (White ones :omgno: ) who would absolutely lose their **** about a school using manual labour as punishment without parental consent.

There is absolutely nothing in this story - whatsoever - to suggest that the mothers anger is in any way based on cultural beliefs and even less evidence that it is in any way sexist.

[Northern Monkey]

My school once made me file piles of paperwork for a punishment.I would've loved to have done some washing up instead

[Brillopad]

No, it wouldn't. In your mind it would confirm what you already believe to be true because of your racial prejudice.

I know an absolute TONNE of crunchy vegan mummies (White ones :omgno: ) who would absolutely lose their **** about a school using manual labour as punishment without parental consent.

There is absolutely nothing in this story - whatsoever - to suggest that the mothers anger is in any way based on cultural beliefs and even less evidence that it is in any way sexist.

It was a nice way of avoiding answering my original question, I asked you a hypothetical question as to if it came to light that several other parents objected, all of the same culture, what your views on that would be. Would you not see an agenda.

If there is an agenda it would not be so unreasonable to suggest that the fact that it was A boy and not a girl at the centre of her grievance may have had something to do with her OTT reaction. If so that would be sexist.

Btw this may potentially have something to do with culture, but where does race come into it. Race and culture are not mutually exclusive. It just sounds like another excuse to undermine my opinions by calling me racist. Bored with it now.

[jaxie]

In my experience having worked in schools in the past, I think parents in general can be in denial about their children's bad behaviour. It's never the fault of my little darling and this in turn is often why that little darling is a problem.

Washing pots is hardly going to do him any harm, clearly the mother needs a reality check.

[DemolitionRed]

My school once made me file piles of paperwork for a punishment.I would've loved to have done some washing up instead

haha! me too :hee:

[Kizzy]

It was a nice way of avoiding answering my original question, I asked you a hypothetical question as to if it came to light that several other parents objected, all of the same culture, what your views on that would be. Would you not see an agenda.

If there is an agenda it would not be so unreasonable to suggest that the fact that it was A boy and not a girl at the centre of her grievance may have had something to do with her OTT reaction. If so that would be sexist.

Btw this may potentially have something to do with culture, but where does race come into it. Race and culture are not mutually exclusive. It just sounds like another excuse to undermine my opinions by calling me racist. Bored with it now.

Some obscure hypothetical does not excuse the prejudice you have displayed in this thread sorry.

[Brillopad]

Some obscure hypothetical does not excuse the prejudice you have displayed in this thread sorry.

I have every right not to feel supportive of cultures that support sexism whatever race that culture may be. It has bugger all to do with race and if a culture blatantly indulges in sexism they should be called out on it. To imply people can't do so without be called bull**** names is PC intimidation.

Honestly talk about hypocrisy.

[Withano]

I have every right not to feel supportive of cultures that support sexism whatever race that culture may be. It has bugger all to do with race and if a culture blatantly indulges in sexism they should be called out on it. To imply people can't do so without be called bull**** names is PC intimidation.

Honestly talk about hypocrisy.

You dont even know what culture/religion this family are. Its like you want people to see you as racist or something.

[Tom4784]

Chores as punishments are pointless, detentions should provide a chance to learn or study. Getting someone to wash dishes does nothing for their education.

[Tom4784]

Also there's no mention of the family's religion so Brillo seems to be making assumptions based on race rather than actual facts.

[Brillopad]

Also there's no mention of the family's religion so Brillo seems to be making assumptions based on race rather than actual facts.

Race and culture are two different things - you do understand that don't you.

People do not have to approve or certain practices common to certain cultures and religions. Race has f all to do with it.

[Withano]

Point is Brillo, you looked at photograph of them, and their names, and you assumed that you were against their culture and/or religion.

[Toy Soldier]

It was a nice way of avoiding answering my original question, I asked you a hypothetical question as to if it came to light that several other parents objected, all of the same culture, what your views on that would be. Would you not see an agenda.

But that hasn't happened so your question is utterly bizarre! "Aha but if their skin peeled off revealing a scaly hide and tail, might you not then agree that they be lizard folk?"

If there is an agenda it would not be so unreasonable to suggest that the fact that it was A boy and not a girl at the centre of her grievance may have had something to do with her OTT reaction. If so that would be sexist.

Guesswork. Not even a guess with anythibg at all behind it to make it a reasonable one... It is a straight up guess pure and simple. You have absolutely no idea whether or not the reaction would have been the same had it been a girl rather than a boy. In the absense of such evidence it's only reasonable to assume that her reaction would have been exactly the same.

Btw this may potentially have something to do with culture, but where does race come into it. Race and culture are not mutually exclusive. It just sounds like another excuse to undermine my opinions by calling me racist. Bored with it now.

Because you have no idea what their culture is. You have assumed that you do based on the name of the mother and the colour of the boy in the pictures skin. There is not one further word about their religion, culture, country of origin, how many generations in the country. Nothing. At all. There's the story, a name and a picture and you have made all sorts of guesses and assumptions based on those three details. And now YOU are saying that religion and culture has nothing to do with race. Correct! That is what everyone else is telling g you! You are the one assuming that you know about their culture, and their motivations, and their likelihood of being sexist, based on nothing but their race! That is racial prejudice. Pure and simple.

[DemolitionRed]

I have every right not to feel supportive of cultures that support sexism whatever race that culture may be. It has bugger all to do with race and if a culture blatantly indulges in sexism they should be called out on it. To imply people can't do so without be called bull**** names is PC intimidation.

Honestly talk about hypocrisy.

You need to calm down and stop continually depicting these people as arch-villains. Have you heard of 'cultural racism'? its a real thing. Every time you spout off about Muslims, what you're doing, subconsciously or not, is saying "Western = civilized” and “Islamic = uncivilized.”

As Craig Considine so rightly said, "Racism is changing in its form, but the beast is still very much alive and well."

[Tom4784]

Race and culture are two different things - you do understand that don't you.

People do not have to approve or certain practices common to certain cultures and religions. Race has f all to do with it.

You said this, did you not?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4635394/School-accused-slavery-focing-boy-wash-dishes.html

I don't really see the issue here. I feel it is a cultural thing with the mother specifically objecting to her son having to wash dishes. I doubt she would have had the same issues if it had been her daughter.

If so, we cannot condone cultural sexism and double standards like this in British schools.

You saw a name and brown skin and you made assumptions and cast aspersions on them based purely on that. As TS said, that is racial prejudice and no amount of backpedellaing and changing of the goalposts is going to change that.

[Brillopad]

You need to calm down and stop continually depicting these people as arch-villains. Have you heard of 'cultural racism'? its a real thing. Every time you spout off about Muslims, what you're doing, subconsciously or not, is saying "Western = civilized” and “Islamic = uncivilized.”

As Craig Considine so rightly said, "Racism is changing in its form, but the beast is still very much alive and well."

Oh more names to beat people with. More PC intimidation. What progress. I'd say the ISIS beast is thriving better than any of us.

[Toy Soldier]

Oh more names to beat people with. More PC intimidation. What progress. I'd say the ISIS beast is thriving better than any of us.
"Mother doesn't want son to wash dishes"

Brillo: "ISIS IS THRIVING!!!"

[DemolitionRed]

Oh more names to beat people with. More PC intimidation. What progress. I'd say the ISIS beast is thriving better than any of us.

You beat on Muslims all the time! Its not PC intimidation, its just compassion for my fellow beings, something you greatly lack.

ISIS want people like you. They want nothing more than to cause a divide. What you have done is fallen for their agenda.

[Brillopad]

You beat on Muslims all the time! Its not PC intimidation, its just compassion for my fellow beings, something you greatly lack.

ISIS want people like you. They want nothing more than to cause a divide. What you have done is fallen for their agenda.

Are you an expert on ISIS - you seem to think you know them well. I don't agree with you on that and am not going to accept your words as fact because as far as I can see it is simply opinion. If you have more than opinion - be my guest - fire away.

[Withano]

"Mother doesn't want son to wash dishes"

Brillo: "ISIS IS THRIVING!!!"

:joker:

[Brother Leon]

Why is it a cultural thing? My mum is white and she would have flipped if I came home at 12 years old and told her I was doing the washing up for my school. They have staff to do that so just give the kid detention and lines.

[lostalex]

unfortunately this woman and her delinquent son fuel more racism.

[Niamh.]

unfortunately this woman and her delinquent son fuel more racism.

*Racists fuel racism

[lostalex]

*Racists fuel racism

Minorities who validate stereotypes definitely contribute to and fuel racism.

Unfortunately most stereotypes and prejudices are built on a small foundation of truth.

only those specific minorities can dismantle that foundation of truth that props up harmful stereotypes.

[Niamh.]

Minorities who validate stereotypes definitely contribute to and fuel racism.

Unfortunately most stereotypes and prejudices are built on a foundation of truth.

only those specific minorities can dismantle that foundation of truth that props up harmful stereotypes.

So you're now blaming minorities for racism? Really? :umm2:

[lostalex]

So you're now blaming minorities for racism? Really? :umm2:

NO, i'm saying it's harmful to minorities when they validate stereotypes.

[Cal.]

He shouldn't have been a naughty twat then should he. Silly boy. His mum is just looking for attention. There's children dying in the world and she's moaning her tits off about her son having to wash a few dishes for misbehaviour.

[Niamh.]

NO, i'm saying it's harmful to minorities when they validate stereotypes.

You know what's racist, is people assuming the mother in this story wouldn't have minded if it were her daughter in the same situation based on the colour of her skin. That's racist and that's the problem.

[lostalex]

You know what's racist, is people assuming the mother in this story wouldn't have minded if it were her daughter in the same situation based on the colour of her skin. That's racist and that's the problem.

Unfortunately it's not racist. one because muslim is not a race, and two because it's actually true that muslims are more sexist and more conservative than non-muslims.

It's not racist if it's a fact. and it's not racist if it's not a race.

just like it's not sexist if you assume a serial killer is male. men are more likely to be serial killers.

[Niamh.]

Unfortunately it's not racist. one because muslim is not a race, and two because it's actually true that muslims are more sexist and more conservative than non-muslims.

It's not racist if it's a fact. and it's not racist if it's not a race.

You're the one who brought race into it in the very first post that i quoted of yours :laugh: So you better tell yourself that, eh?

[lostalex]

You're the one who brought race into it in the very first post that i quoted of yours :laugh: So you better tell yourself that, eh?

i would, but i know i have you to remind me. :laugh:

[Niamh.]

i would, but i know i have you to remind me. :laugh:

Always here to help :douf:

[Toy Soldier]

Unfortunately it's not racist. one because muslim is not a race, and two because it's actually true that muslims are more sexist and more conservative than non-muslims.

It's not racist if it's a fact. and it's not racist if it's not a race.

just like it's not sexist if you assume a serial killer is male. men are more likely to be serial killers.

How about you quote the part of the article that states that they are Muslim.

Oh hmmmm it DOESN'T. People have assumed that based on their race and name. But wait a second... you have just said yourself that "muslim is not a race"... ... ... how baffling that so many people seem to know for certain that they are Muslim.

[Tom4784]

So you're now blaming minorities for racism? Really? :umm2:

Racists will blame anyone but themselves.

[Tozzie]

bloody norah I've seen it all now.........oh wait, no I haven't I'm sure i'll see something equally pathetic very soon....slavery WTF

[Vicky.]

I don't think washing dishes is an acceptable punishment at school tbh. Kids aren't there to do someone elses job :laugh:

I wouldn't make a fuss about it though or run to the press. I might have a quiet word with the teacher and ask them whos job its actually meant to be and why my child had been asked to do it.

[Brillopad]

I don't think washing dishes is an acceptable punishment at school tbh. Kids aren't there to do someone elses job :laugh:

I wouldn't make a fuss about it though or run to the press. I might have a quiet word with the teacher and ask them whos job its actually meant to be and why my child had been asked to do it.

The mother had an agenda in my opinion - you don't that much of a fuss about something so minor without one.

[Vicky.]

The mother had an agenda in my opinion - you don't that much of a fuss about something so minor without one.

Yeah, much like anyone who goes running to the press with minor incidents tbh. I don't understand the need at all

[Kizzy]

The mother had an agenda in my opinion - you don't that much of a fuss about something so minor without one.

It is a non story but it keeps the chattering masses from discussing real issues, like our corrupt govt for instance.

[Withano]

The mother had an agenda in my opinion - you don't that much of a fuss about something so minor without one.

Youve made a huge fuss over this. Youve also brought up culture and religion in the thread. What was your agenda? :think:

[Brillopad]

Youve made a huge fuss over this. Youve also brought up culture and religion in the thread. What was your agenda? :think:

Just a thread giving my thoughts. Why is it a fuss - because it comes from me no doubt.

[Withano]

Just a thread giving my thoughts. Why is it a fuss - because it comes from me no doubt.

Because youve been on a 3 day rage about a presumption. Thats weird m8.

[Brillopad]

Because youve been on a 3 day rage about a presumption. Thats weird m8.

A 3 day RAGE - where, when - I can't find it! Not more of your OTT nonsence.

[Withano]

A 3 day RAGE - where, when - I can't find it! Not more of your OTT nonsence.

As if you went into the irrational line of thinking about a presumed culture, and discussed the presumed culture throughout the thread if you wasnt enraged. That was you being calm and rational? Good lord, you must be obsessed with whatever culture you presumed they had.

[Withano]

Anyway, by your logic - the mothher had an agenda for kicking up a fuss.. you have undoubtedly kicked up a fuss, so by your personal logic: you must have had an agenda. What was it?

[Brillopad]

Anyway, by your logic - the mothher had an agenda for kicking up a fuss.. you have undoubtedly kicked up a fuss, so by your personal logic: you must have had an agenda. What was it?

If I had one it would be to get up your nose.

[Withano]

If I had one it would be to get up your nose.

Thats interesting. Because when you share an article that has zero links to culture, or religion... but you personally make the link towards these things, despite it being completely irrational and irrelevant.. and then share your negative opinion about the family, and the culture you presume that they have, despite that having zero weight on the story... It looks more as if your agenda was to spout hatred towards a group of people that your have an irrational disliking towards.

[Brillopad]

Thats interesting. Because when you share an article that has zero links to culture, or religion... but you personally make the link towards these things, despite it being completely irrational and irrelevant.. and then share your negative opinion about the family, and the culture you presume that they have, despite that having zero weight on the story... It looks more as if your agenda was to spout hatred towards a group of people that your have an irrational disliking towards.

Keep on trying - looking very desperate now.

[Withano]

Keep on trying - looking very desperate now.

Well, if not, can you finally tell us, after three pages of your nonsense, why you presumed their culture in the first place?

I mean... The story is about a school with an odd/immoral punishment system, only you picked up on a potential culture element. Theres gotta be a reason your thought process is so different to everyone elses.. did you read the article?

[Brillopad]

Well, if not, can you finally tell us, after three pages of your nonsense, why you presumed their culture in the first place?

I mean... The story is about a school with an odd/immoral punishment system, only you picked up on a potential culture element. Theres gotta be a reason your thought process is so different to everyone elses.. did you read the article?

Just because others didn't mention culture doesn't mean it didn't occur to them. And if the family are from a culture that treats women as second-class citizens would you will still believe that that had nothing to do with her OTT reaction.

Stop trying to PC me. Your constant attempts to 'out' me look pretty controlling and hysterical. People will think whatever they think. They don't need you to attempt to spell it out for them.

[Withano]

Just because others didn't mention culture doesn't mean it didn't occur to them. And if the family are from a culture that treats women as second-class citizens would you will still believe that that had nothing to do with her OTT reaction.

Stop trying to PC me. Your constant attempts to 'out' me look pretty controlling and hysterical. People will think whatever they think. They don't need you to attempt to spell it out for them.

Im asking you to spell it out for us, I dont know your motives. You already said it wasnt to spout hatred to a group you dislike but this post contradicts that. Why are you deflecting, its an incredibly simple question. I'll ask again, you know me, always the optimist: Why bring up a presumed culture that was never relevant?