domestic abuse refuges women 7500 - men 60?

[the truth]

Just saw yet another sickeningly sexist radical feminist bbc report on domestic violence...They discussed only women ...They talked about and to only women...They reported only about the female refuges..They did not mention males at all in the report.

Studies have showed that over 40% of domestic violence victims are men, yet men are not allowed to ring the national domestic abuse helpline...There are 60 refuges across the Uk for men and 7500 for women publicly funded

The feminists who create this unfair system profit from it, the more we treat women and ignore male victims the more the official figures and costs get skewed. This is another national disgrace and wholly sexist against men

They say men should talk more open up and express themselves more...well who to? when no one cares about their suffering?

No wonder male suicides are at an all time high across the entire western world and no one is doing a damned thing about it

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2010/sep/05/men-victims-domestic-violence

[Marsh.]

There are male only helplines too. Stop being silly.

[the truth]

not the national domestic line which is what I am talking about , the male ones are tiny some are only open a few hours a week, stop trivialising male domestic abuse, now stop being silly

[user104658]

I think part of what you need to acknowledge though, Truth, is that men are far less likely to come forward if they are in an abusive relationship - or if they need help in many other ways - because doing so is seen as "weak" and "not manly". In my experience, the people furthering that sort of thinking the most is other men. e.g. Piers Morgan and his "they need to man up" comments. The majority of the time that's a very MALE mindset.

[Marsh.]

not the national domestic line which is what I am talking about , the male ones are tiny some are only open a few hours a week, stop trivialising male domestic abuse, now stop being silly
Come back when male domestic abuse is as rife as women's and I'll personally open more refuges.

Fact is, they'll only have open enough that are needed. If male domestic abuse rises, they'll change accordingly.

So stop trying to play male victim at every turn.

[Livia]

I might just add that there will be a percentage of male domestic abuse victims who will have been injured by their same sex partner.

[user104658]

Come back when male domestic abuse is as rife as women's and I'll personally open more refuges.

Fact is, they'll only have open enough that are needed. If male domestic abuse rises, they'll change accordingly.

So stop trying to play male victim at every turn.

To be fair I do have to cautiously edge towards Truth on this one: Female-on-Male domestic abuse is rife, especially emotional abuse. Studies show approx 50/50, though less likely to result in death or serious injury. Less physical abuse in general, though that exists too; mainly because of the stigma of male-on-female violence. Where women won't retaliate against a violent man for fear of being physically overpowered and hurt badly, men often won't retaliate or defend themselves out of fear of how that will be perceived. Likewise men are less likely to admit to being abused out of a fear of appearing "weak" or being ridiculed which, sadly, does happen.

However, like I said, the main problem is men not coming forward in the first place... not a lack of resources for them to turn to. It's a sort of "supply and demand" situation really... men aren't seeking help in the first place for resources to be put into providing it. And again, the main reason that men won't come forward is actually because of the reactions of other men; a man's female friends are (statistically) far more likely to be sympathetic and understanding of a male coming forward to report abuse than their male friends.

So really the number one issue, long before providing resources, is changing that "guys should be emotionally robust and physically tough and it's shameful not to be those things" mindset that is common in basically every culture in the world. There's also a perception that emotional abuse is "less serious" than physical abuse, when actually the damage to an individual can be staggering.

I think this is one situation where Truthey is identifying a genuine problem, but pointing the blame cannon in the wrong direction and looking for solutions in the wrong places.

[the truth]

more money should be pumped in and the bbc and national refuges should not be excluding men from their helplines and reports. further the police attitudes are often pathetic where a lot of overstretched police depots simply don't have the time resources to take male victims seriously

[Livia]

There should be tougher consequences, I think, for people who are abusive to their partners. Maybe a three strikes system? Where your third strike would get you ten years. There's no excuse for being violent to another person, male or female. If there's one place you should feel safe and secure it's in your own home.

[Ashley.]

Just saw yet another sickeningly sexist radical feminist bbc report on domestic violence...They discussed only women ...They talked about and to only women...They reported only about the female refuges..They did not mention males at all in the report.

Studies have showed that over 40% of domestic violence victims are men, yet men are not allowed to ring the national domestic abuse helpline...There are 60 refuges across the Uk for men and 7500 for women publicly funded

The feminists who create this unfair system profit from it, the more we treat women and ignore male victims the more the official figures and costs get skewed. This is another national disgrace and wholly sexist against men

They say men should talk more open up and express themselves more...well who to? when no one cares about their suffering?

No wonder male suicides are at an all time high across the entire western world and no one is doing a damned thing about it

And you're blaming women for that?

People care about men just as they do women. There are systems built around helping them, and nobody is ignoring the high suicide rate for males. The official figures are not skewed, it's just that men are taught to suppress their feelings rather than express them. It is vital that we tackle this issue before anything else.

[the truth]

I agree but are we getting the actual truth? The trouble is the police the judicial system and everyone else must not be biased , they must listen equally to both genders. Just because a man is 3 inches taller and a stone heavier on average doesnt mean hes the perpetrator. Have you ever known a man report an abusive woman and she is arrested and locked up? Its a pretty rare occasion. Abuse happens in many ways, controlling threatening behaviour, financially too, deliberately racking up huge bills, or destroying peoples property? These are all crimes that must be taken more seriously and destroy peoples lives too

[Northern Monkey]

There probably wasn't a need for it back when they were created but now we're in the days of men becoming more feminine and women getting more butch we're seeing a rise in geezer-birds smacking the males who are scared to stand up for themselves because they'll get arrested for hitting back.The system needs to catchup with the times.

[Northern Monkey]

There should be tougher consequences, I think, for people who are abusive to their partners. Maybe a three strikes system? Where your third strike would get you ten years. There's no excuse for being violent to another person, male or female. If there's one place you should feel safe and secure it's in your own home.

So like - Left hook,right hook *boom jail!

[Vicky.]

To be fair I do have to cautiously edge towards Truth on this one: Female-on-Male domestic abuse is rife, especially emotional abuse. Studies show approx 50/50, though less likely to result in death or serious injury. Less physical abuse in general, though that exists too; mainly because of the stigma of male-on-female violence. Where women won't retaliate against a violent man for fear of being physically overpowered and hurt badly, men often won't retaliate or defend themselves out of fear of how that will be perceived. Likewise men are less likely to admit to being abused out of a fear of appearing "weak" or being ridiculed which, sadly, does happen.

However, like I said, the main problem is men not coming forward in the first place... not a lack of resources for them to turn to. It's a sort of "supply and demand" situation really... men aren't seeking help in the first place for resources to be put into providing it. And again, the main reason that men won't come forward is actually because of the reactions of other men; a man's female friends are (statistically) far more likely to be sympathetic and understanding of a male coming forward to report abuse than their male friends.

So really the number one issue, long before providing resources, is changing that "guys should be emotionally robust and physically tough and it's shameful not to be those things" mindset that is common in basically every culture in the world. There's also a perception that emotional abuse is "less serious" than physical abuse, when actually the damage to an individual can be staggering.

I think this is one situation where Truthey is identifying a genuine problem, but pointing the blame cannon in the wrong direction and looking for solutions in the wrong places.

Indeed.

I don't see why men would be excluded from a helpline though tbh. I find that very odd and kind of want to see this report myself as I cannot understand how a national domestic abuse helpline could exclude half the country...

I totally understand female only shelters and such and understand why there are more of them than male ones. Usually, females set them up to help other females who are terrified of males as they have been abused. Excluding male people from those areas is completely right I think as females go there to escape and even the mere sight of a male could be scary right after being attacked.

Yes there should be more shelters for males, BUT..how many males are actually seriously injured or mentally scarred enough to have to use a shelter? Again we probably do not known because males bottle it all up for fear of being seen as 'not a man' and such.

Basically, until males attitudes towards themselves and other males changes, this problem will still be here. Its not the fault of 'feminists' who wish to help females who actually ask for help.

[Kizzy]

There probably wasn't a need for it back when they were created but now we're in the days of men becoming more feminine and women getting more butch we're seeing a rise in geezer-birds smacking the males who are scared to stand up for themselves because they'll get arrested for hitting back.The system needs to catchup with the times.

Men becoming more feminine... What you mean weak?

[Marsh.]

To be fair I do have to cautiously edge towards Truth on this one: Female-on-Male domestic abuse is rife, especially emotional abuse. Studies show approx 50/50, though less likely to result in death or serious injury. Less physical abuse in general, though that exists too; mainly because of the stigma of male-on-female violence. Where women won't retaliate against a violent man for fear of being physically overpowered and hurt badly, men often won't retaliate or defend themselves out of fear of how that will be perceived. Likewise men are less likely to admit to being abused out of a fear of appearing "weak" or being ridiculed which, sadly, does happen.

However, like I said, the main problem is men not coming forward in the first place... not a lack of resources for them to turn to. It's a sort of "supply and demand" situation really... men aren't seeking help in the first place for resources to be put into providing it. And again, the main reason that men won't come forward is actually because of the reactions of other men; a man's female friends are (statistically) far more likely to be sympathetic and understanding of a male coming forward to report abuse than their male friends.

So really the number one issue, long before providing resources, is changing that "guys should be emotionally robust and physically tough and it's shameful not to be those things" mindset that is common in basically every culture in the world. There's also a perception that emotional abuse is "less serious" than physical abuse, when actually the damage to an individual can be staggering.

I think this is one situation where Truthey is identifying a genuine problem, but pointing the blame cannon in the wrong direction and looking for solutions in the wrong places.
Yeah, that's sort of what I meant. The supply and demand thing.

They're not purposely saying we're only going to provide support for women. They supply support for both. But there isn't much use in having 350 nationwide refuges for men if only 50 get used or whatever. That would be a waste or resources.

[Marsh.]

Indeed.

I don't see why men would be excluded from a helpline though tbh. I find that very odd and kind of want to see this report myself as I cannot understand how a national domestic abuse helpline could exclude half the country...

I totally understand female only shelters and such and understand why there are more of them than male ones. Usually, females set them up to help other females who are terrified of males as they have been abused. Excluding male people from those areas is completely right I think as females go there to escape and even the mere sight of a male could be scary right after being attacked.

Yes there should be more shelters for males, BUT..how many males are actually seriously injured or mentally scarred enough to have to use a shelter? Again we probably do not known because males bottle it all up for fear of being seen as 'not a man' and such.

Basically, until males attitudes towards themselves and other males changes, this problem will still be here. Its not the fault of 'feminists' who wish to help females who actually ask for help.
They don't exclude men from the helpline. There is a separate number for them to ring.

[Vicky.]

They don't exclude men from the helpline. There is a separate number for them to ring.

OK. I thought it was a bit odd that men would be excluded. Thanks.

[the truth]

OK. I thought it was a bit odd that men would be excluded. Thanks.

marsh is wrong the main national number does exclude all men. the seperate number is a different organizational open half a dozen hours a week on just 2 days

[Vicky.]

http://www.mensadviceline.org.uk/ there is specifically for men but its only 9-5 5 days a week

http://www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/help-for-men/ 24 hour line for males here too, which is the same number as the one ran by womens aid (which is the 'national domestic abuse' line) so it seems males are not excluded.

Womens aid is a charity set up specifically for females suffering DV too. Females helping each other basically. Is there an organisation set up by males to help males out of interest?

Again it seems the problem is males (in general, not all) do not wish to help other males and would rather ridicule them and say they are being too feminine for complaining of abuse. Because of this males are less likely to seek help. So the demand is not there as much as it is for females.

[the truth]

http://www.mensadviceline.org.uk/ there is specifically for men but its only 9-5 5 days a week

http://www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/help-for-men/ 24 hour line for males here too, which is the same number as the one ran by womens aid (which is the 'national domestic abuse' line) so it seems males are not excluded.

Womens aid is a charity set up specifically for females suffering DV too. Females helping each other basically. Is there an organisation set up by males to help males out of interest?

Again it seems the problem is males (in general, not all) do not wish to help other males and would rather ridicule them and say they are being too feminine for complaining of abuse. Because of this males are less likely to seek help. So the demand is not there as much as it is for females.

the problem is also with feminists who simply mock and ignore these male issues as we saw with radical feminist mp jess Phillips mocking laughing and sneering the recent parliament committee discussing male suicides etc male suicides are 5 times higher than women's and they get 50 times less help

[Vicky.]

the problem is also with feminists who simply mock and ignore these male issues as we saw with radical feminist mp jess Phillips mocking laughing and sneering the recent parliament committee discussing male suicides etc male suicides are 5 times higher than women's and they get 50 times less help

I highly doubt anyone was laughing and sneering at male suicide rates.

The main problem is with other males and their attitude towards each other. As such, anger should really be directed at them and energy should be focused on actually helping men gain the confidence to speak out when they need help rather than trying to deflect all blame onto feminists tbh. IMO of course.

Its not really a case of getting 50 times less help. If enough blokes spoke out and asked for help, then the amount of help for males would increase. At the moment, its the 'manly' thing to do to keep it all bottled up until they snap (and sadly maybe commit suicide). Obviously not all males do this but a lot do have the mindset that asking for help makes them weak in some way.

[Mystic Mock]

There are male only helplines too. Stop being silly.

They're not as publicised though.

[the truth]

I highly doubt anyone was laughing and sneering at male suicide rates.

The main problem is with other males and their attitude towards each other. As such, anger should really be directed at them and energy should be focused on actually helping men gain the confidence to speak out when they need help rather than trying to deflect all blame onto feminists tbh. IMO of course.

Its not really a case of getting 50 times less help. If enough blokes spoke out and asked for help, then the amount of help for males would increase. At the moment, its the 'manly' thing to do to keep it all bottled up until they snap (and sadly maybe commit suicide). Obviously not all males do this but a lot do have the mindset that asking for help makes them weak in some way.
she was laughing and mocking male issues being debated 8ncluding male suicide which no one is doing a damn thing about its times times the female rate and gets 50 times less resources. blaming men is a cop out they have no one to talk to. men are ignored and mucked and the funding isn't there

[Mystic Mock]

she was laughing and mocking male issues being debated 8ncluding male suicide which no one is doing a damn thing about its times times the female rate and gets 50 times less resources. blaming men is a cop out they have no one to talk to. men are ignored and mucked and the funding isn't there

Any woman behaving like that is no feminist, they're a misandrist.

[Vicky.]

Any woman behaving like that is no feminist, they're a misandrist.

This..if someone was genuinely laughing at the high rates of suicide among male people then they are hiding behind feminism whilst just being a dickhead misandrist.

[Vicky.]

she was laughing and mocking male issues being debated 8ncluding male suicide which no one is doing a damn thing about its times times the female rate and gets 50 times less resources. blaming men is a cop out they have no one to talk to. men are ignored and mucked and the funding isn't there

Well no its really not. But I shouldn't really expect any other answer I guess. Blaming women is always the way isn't it.

[the truth]

I'll post video links on that vile man hating bigot later not to forget sHaron gobs hire is Bourne laughing about a man bleeding to death after a wOman sliced his scrotum off

[Marsh.]

They're not as publicised though.
They're not used as much neither.

If somebody wants help they'll normally Google it anyway.

I'm just finding this as yet another silly attempt at victimising men just because.

[Marsh.]

marsh is wrong the main national number does exclude all men. the seperate number is a different organizational open half a dozen hours a week on just 2 days

Stop telling lies.

http://www.refuge.org.uk/get-help-now/help-for-men/

[the truth]

Indeed.

I don't see why men would be excluded from a helpline though tbh. I find that very odd and kind of want to see this report myself as I cannot understand how a national domestic abuse helpline could exclude half the country...

I totally understand female only shelters and such and understand why there are more of them than male ones. Usually, females set them up to help other females who are terrified of males as they have been abused. Excluding male people from those areas is completely right I think as females go there to escape and even the mere sight of a male could be scary right after being attacked.

Yes there should be more shelters for males, BUT..how many males are actually seriously injured or mentally scarred enough to have to use a shelter? Again we probably do not known because males bottle it all up for fear of being seen as 'not a man' and such.

Basically, until males attitudes towards themselves and other males changes, this problem will still be here. Its not the fault of 'feminists' who wish to help females who actually ask for help.


So we're still simply blaming abused men now for being abused and not speaking out? When there is no one to listen to them and no one to take them seriously? its a catch 22 situation , that is an absolute nightmare for the millions of men who do face abuse, physically, mentally , emotionally, financially etc etc etc lets not forget the supposed physical strength advantage is the reason why male victims are ignored...

But its virtually irrelevant...A violent woman can hurt a man in a million different ways and often get away with it.. With weapons knives , they can destroy property, rack up credit bills, change locks to property, make fake accusations, take his children, accuse him of all sorts or even get other people at attack him.

Even the so called physical superiority of men has virtually disappeared. Men die younger on average by 5 years across every country in the western world. The actual gap in strength has narrowed massively too to virtually nothing. Yet men still carry out the vast majority of the worst hardest dirtiest most dangerous jobs like climbing into the burning grenfell flats to save lives and risk their own

The truth is feminism isnt about equality whatsoever , its about taking as much as possible for women which means taking away as much as possible from men. So men die 5 years younger have infinitely less support, less spent on them, less empathy, less people to talk to, less rights. This is why men commit suicide at 5 times the rate, die younger, yet get 50 times less spent on them. Over 80% of fathers lose custody of their children and their family home. Therefore 80% of boys have no relationship and are cut off from their fathers and often poisoned against them. Meanwhile boys in schools are light years behind girls and in universities too. We are constantly told how dumb boys are, how women can multi task and boys cant. We have almost no male teachers at juniors and infants for fear of false accusations of sexual assaults. Yet these estranged fathers who are kicked out of the homes they spent their entire lives working for and paying for and kicked out of the kids lives. Kids they nurtured fed and clothed and loved. After being destroyed, they get no support and if these men dont kill themselves they are hounded to give half their wages to these women who take their children and homes or they go to prison.

Mans world my ass. Men are massively discriminated against in western society. Often the feminist debate then flips to , oh but women are oppresed in the third world. yes they are, but that doesnt justify discriminating against men in western society simply to redress the balance. There is no balance no justice no equality and we know apply laws and cultural norms in a wholly different way to men and women.

[the truth]

The line is for women and children only, marsh is lying
http://www.refuge.org.uk/get-involved/donate-now/?gclid=CJbx5p-K5NQCFeqw7Qod1ykHXQ

[Vicky.]

So we're still simply blaming abused men now for being abused and not speaking out?

Yes. Thats exactly what I said....

I find this an interesting topic but if you are just going to twist everything back round to evil females then its pointless me even posting tbh.

[the truth]

Yes. Thats exactly what I said....

I find this an interesting topic but if you are just going to twist everything back round to evil females then its pointless me even posting tbh.

I didnt say that , youre twisting my words. I am blaming feminists and especially radical ones, but if youre going to twist everything back to blaming everything on stupid males then its pointless us even discussing it

[Vicky.]

I didnt say that , youre twisting my words. I am blaming feminists and especially radical ones, but if youre going to twist everything back to blaming everything on stupid males then its pointless us even discussing it

I am blaming nothing on 'stupid males'. You clearly haven't read my posts right. I am blaming the majority of it on what a male is 'supposed to be'. Meaning, what society expects. And it is mainly other males who will enforce the ridiculous notion that seeking help or admitting you have a problem is weak.

A huge part of the problem is that males (in general, obviously not on an individual basis) are less likely to talk about their problems. Not just with professionals but even among mates. Males are more likely to ridicule other males for seeking out help too..from my experience anyway. I know 2 guys who have spoken up about being hit by their partners. Both had the piss taken out of them when they discussed it with their (male) friends. 'Ahaha a womans stronger than you' and such. This kind of treatment makes one less likely to actually seek help..I'm sure you agree.

Until this ends, males will not seek help for domestic violence at the same rate that females do. If males do not seek help, the extra shelters and such that are needed (or would be needed, if more who needed help sought it) will not be there.

[the truth]

I am blaming nothing on 'stupid males'. You clearly haven't read my posts right. I am blaming the majority of it on what a male is 'supposed to be'. Meaning, what society expects. And it is mainly other males who will enforce the ridiculous notion that seeking help or admitting you have a problem is weak.

A huge part of the problem is that males (in general, obviously not on an individual basis) are less likely to talk about their problems. Not just with professionals but even among mates. Males are more likely to ridicule other males for seeking out help too..from my experience anyway. I know 2 guys who have spoken up about being hit by their partners. Both had the piss taken out of them when they discussed it with their (male) friends. 'Ahaha a womans stronger than you' and such. This kind of treatment makes one less likely to actually seek help..I'm sure you agree.

Until this ends, males will not seek help for domestic violence at the same rate that females do. If males do not seek help, the extra shelters and such that are needed (or would be needed, if more who needed help sought it) will not be there.

Yes you're just blaming males, how sexist how cold how heartless how sexist
I have laid out the facts , men kill themselves at 5 times the rate of women, they die 5 years young across the entire western world, yet they get 50 times less resources spent on them. Your petty example of 2 clowns taking the piss is utterly irrelevant to the suffering of millions of men worldwide. Men and women take the piss as did jess phillips in a westminster committee discussing male suicides and other complex male issues. Or sharon osbourne to the many watching millions on live tv mocked a man who bled to death after having his scrotum sliced off...she wasnt even warned or sacked by her bosses.... Any fair minded person can see that this is unfair on men. The facilities, the expenditure, the helplines should be open to men 24 hours a day the same as for women and children too..Sadly you clearly do not fall into that category. Absolutely shameful.

[Vicky.]

Yes you're just blaming males, how sexist how cold how heartless how sexist
I have laid out the facts , men kill themselves at 5 times the rate of women, they die 5 years young across the entire western world, yet they get 50 times less resources spent on them. Your petty example of 2 clowns taking the piss is utterly irrelevant to the suffering of millions of men worldwide. Men and women take the piss as did jess phillips in a westminster committee discussing male suicides and other complex male issues. Or sharon osbourne to the many watching millions on live tv mocked a man who bled to death after having his scrotum sliced off...she wasnt even warned or sacked by her bosses.... Any fair minded person can see that this is unfair on men. The facilities, the expenditure, the helplines should be open to men 24 hours a day the same as for women and children too..Sadly you clearly do not fall into that category. Absolutely shameful.Are you saying it is not common among males..the thought that asking for help is bad? That 'man up' is not a common phrase. That being sensitive is not seen as being 'soft'. And 'soft' is not seen as a bad thing? I could go on but fear its pointless given all you got from my post was that I am cold heartless and sexist.

Didn't see the Sharon Osbourne thing but if thats how it happened then thats obviously a disgrace :umm2:

The facilities are there for the amount of men who report abuse. There are 24 hour helplines available also. Should more money be put into help for males? Yes. But if the demand is not there then these centres and such would close..

[Marsh.]

Don't bother Vicky. It's a waste of time.

[the truth]

Are you saying it is not common among males..the thought that asking for help is bad? That 'man up' is not a common phrase. That being sensitive is not seen as being 'soft'. And 'soft' is not seen as a bad thing? I could go on but fear its pointless given all you got from my post was that I am cold heartless and sexist.

Didn't see the Sharon Osbourne thing but if thats how it happened then thats obviously a disgrace :umm2:

The facilities are there for the amount of men who report abuse. There are 24 hour helplines available also. Should more money be put into help for males? Yes. But if the demand is not there then these centres and such would close..
The facilities are not there, this national refuge number is not there 24 hours for men.

Heres the osbourne clip you could have easily found it in seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80JqoyaL-p4

heres jess phillips mocking mens rights at the westminster committee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XX6ATwQv7Q

If women dont care about mens rights , why should men care about womens?

[Vicky.]

Yes the shelter site is very misleading

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/abuse/Pages/domestic-violence-help.aspx

women can call 0808 2000 247, the free 24-hour National Domestic Violence Helpline run in partnership between Women's Aid and Refuge
men can call the Men's Advice Line free on 0808 801 0327 (Monday to Friday 9am to 5pm) or ManKind on 01823 334 244


What on earth is with the attitude? 'you could have easily found it in seconds'. Its you that brought the clip up..not me :shrug:

I can't actually watch them at the min either as I have no headphones and husbands watching TV but will watch them later on or in the morning

I don't quite understand what you are meaning by this?
If women dont care about mens rights , why should men care about womens? Who is asking men to care about womens rights?

Your entire thread seems to be about women apparently not caring about mens rights?

------------------------------


Also what you seem to be failing to address is that nearly all domestic violence is actually perpetrated by men too. I don't know where the 40% claim comes from either given police statistics say differently?

http://www.refuge.org.uk/about-domestic-violence/domestic-violence-and-gender/


-Metropolitan Police statistics show that male violence against women made up 85% of reported domestic violence incidents
-A 2009 study based on police reports, which accounted for the dynamics of domestic violence, found that only 5% of domestic violence incidents were perpetrated by women in heterosexual relationships
-Domestic violence is patterned, repeated behaviour intended to assert power and control over the victim. Of those who experience 4 or more incidents of domestic violence, 89% are women
-Four times as many women as men are killed by a current or former partner. Two women a week are killed as a result of domestic violence in England and Wales


Unless the 2009 study has been done over I guess...

[the truth]

Yes the shelter site is very misleading

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/abuse/Pages/domestic-violence-help.aspx




What on earth is with the attitude? 'you could have easily found it in seconds'. Its you that brought the clip up..not me :shrug:

I can't actually watch them at the min either as I have no headphones and husbands watching TV but will watch them later on or in the morning

I don't quite understand what you are meaning by this?
Who is asking men to care about womens rights?

Your entire thread seems to be about women apparently not caring about mens rights?


No its about a lot more than that youre simply being disingenuous by misquoting and wrongly paraphrasing me, its pretty dishonest of you but predictable

society at large is discriminating against and neglecting men and giving them a sub standard service. Society is massively under-appreciating men, massively underestimating the issues facing men, and massively underfunding men...this systematic discrimination against men starts in the school yard in the parliaments and in social media

In america and the UK they now have different laws, which basiclaly give women rights and take aways the mens rights..It is blatant discrimination

Even worse than women only shortlists for running for parliament
Yeah I know it is, and youll hear a heck of a lot more of it as the white old man is the most discriminated against in this country

Heres one for you did you know in parts of america all new mothers get a year to decide whetehr or not to take legal ownership of the baby they have just given birth to
Its called the safe haven law

NO man in western society has this legal choice at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKLFIsv7ATE

I have now provided several video clips which you claim you couldnt find, or rather didnt bother looking for

I find you and marsh's cold callous attitude to this massive problem worldwide to be absolutely chilling and lacking in all compassion and humanity

[Vicky.]

I can't watch the clips at the moment...I didn't say I couldn't find the Osbourne clip I said I hadn't seen it but offered an opinion on it anyway based on what you said it was :shrug:

I don't agree with women only shortlists. Or anyone getting any job or anything based on anything other than their ability to actually DO the job well.

I still fail to see how my attitude is cold and callous tbh given I have agreed it is a problem but simply said that its not the fault of feminists.


In america and the UK they now have different laws, which basiclaly give women rights and take aways the mens rights..It is blatant discrimination

Which laws would these be?

Can't watch youtube vid either til either stupid o clock or the morning for same reason given in last post. But I will.

[the truth]

I just explained the law? clearly you didnt bother reading what I wrote judging by your 30 second reply

as for men ...well lets see over 70% of homeless people are men, yet they get 50 times less help

Lets look at surveys

Homeless men are more likely to use drugs, smoke and have an alcohol problem than homeless women;
77 per cent of the 1,248 homeless people surveyed who use drugs and alcohol to cope with mental health issues are men;
83 per cent of the 751 homeless people surveyed who say they used cannabis/weed in the past month are men;
72 per cent of the 426 homeless people surveyed who don’t receive support for mental health problems, but say it would help them, are men;
75 per cent of the 346 homeless people surveyed who don’t receive support for physical health problems, but say it would help them, are men;
83 per cent of the 103 homeless people surveyed who don’t receive support for problems with drug use, but say it would help them, are men;
75 per cent of the 124 homeless people surveyed who don’t receive support for alcohol problems, but say it would help them, are men;
74% of the 949 homeless people surveyed who say they’d like to stop smoking are men.


The greatest irony of all is you and other feminists who say men must speak up more, well here I am speaking up more and I have faced years of being called a sexist pig on this feminist site. The hypocrisy is nauseating

Men speak up and theyre shouted down as sexists , men have no one to turn to, no support, have less rights, less freedoms of speech, less rights as fathers, far less chance at school or university, 80% have no fathers, 40% have no male role models as they grow up, 5 times more kill themselves, they die younger across the world yet 50 times less spent on male issues than men?

[Vicky.]

society at large is discriminating against and neglecting men and giving them a sub standard service. Society is massively under-appreciating men, massively underestimating the issues facing men, and massively underfunding men...this systematic discrimination against men starts in the school yard in the parliaments and in social media

In america and the UK they now have different laws, which basiclaly give women rights and take aways the mens rights..It is blatant discrimination

Even worse than women only shortlists for running for parliament

Where in here do you explain these laws that give women rights and take away mens?!

I assumed the safe haven law you posted about was actually a different part of your post...is that what you meant by giving women rights and taking mens away? I don't even know wtf this safe haven law thing is meant to be...'take legal ownership' of a baby? They aren't objects...maybe it will be clearer when I can watch the vid

I replied in 3 mins, not 30 seconds. It doesn't take longer than that to read a post and type a reply.

[the truth]

Where in here do you explain these laws that give women rights and take away mens?!

I assumed the safe haven law you posted about was actually a different part of your post...is that what you meant by giving women rights and taking mens away? I don't even know wtf this safe haven law thing is meant to be...'take legal ownership' of a baby? They aren't objects...maybe it will be clearer when I can watch the vid

I replied in 3 mins, not 30 seconds. It doesn't take longer than that to read a post and type a reply.

I explained clearly what it was as does the 4 minute video
Im not re explaining it for you to simply ignore it again as you have done with all my facts and figures

delighted to see at least 1 famous female tv star admit she is not a feminist and that she was never held back as a woman as so many false feminists claim

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71TsgQavVkM

[Vicky.]

Your post was not clear...there was also a random bit that I am not sure was meant to be in it as it didn't seem to fit at all with what you were saying, and I cannot YET watch the video but I will. Hopefully it will actually be clear after watching it as I can't make any sense of what you have actually said nor do I understand how giving women the right to take legal ownership (of the baby she has just given birth to) is actually taking away any mens rights...rather than not giving them the same right. But I don't understand how the law would actually work in practice..

[Redway]

Do people still pay attention to this guy?

[the truth]

Your post was not clear...there was also a random bit that I am not sure was meant to be in it as it didn't seem to fit at all with what you were saying, and I cannot YET watch the video but I will. Hopefully it will actually be clear after watching it as I can't make any sense of what you have actually said nor do I understand how giving women the right to take legal ownership (of the baby she has just given birth to) is actually taking away any mens rights...rather than not giving them the same right. But I don't understand how the law would actually work in practice..

Youve totally misunderstood it, probably deliberately. youve been on here hours debating but havent got 4 minutes to watch a clip? convenient especially as the clip doesnt back up your pro feminist agenda

the law says a all mothers gets a year to decide whether or not she will decide to keep her baby or to give it up for adoption. This means in the first year the mother is not legally or morally repsonsible for that new born baby and can simply hand it over to the state to look after then pick it back up a year later...No man on planet earth has this right

[the truth]

Do people still pay attention to this guy?

Yea thats right, ignore the issue at hand, attack the poster and play to the gallery and bring some good old fashioned group bullying into it..well done pal:nono:

[Vicky.]

Heres the osbourne clip you could have easily found it in seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80JqoyaL-p4

'I think its quite fabulous' :umm2:

WTF. Obsbourne comes across horrifically there making no end of jokes about it.

The rest of them aren't really much better. Nor the audience giggling away.



heres jess phillips mocking mens rights at the westminster committee

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XX6ATwQv7Q


'violence against men. Goes very much unreported because of embarrassment about it'

'men don't talk about protstate cancer, testicular cancer for fear of embarrassment'

Those guys just made the point I was making earlier in the thread actually :S


It doesn't seem to me that she is actually laughing at the points he raised in regards to mens issues? Granted its a sensitive topic so she shouldn't be laughing at all really but she doesn't seem at all to be laughing at suicide rates or anything like that like you originally claimed.

I am not too sure where I stand on the issue they were debating tbh. As international mens day...kind of comes under the same heading as 'all lives matter' and 'heterosexual pride day'

Having said that I am not a good person to be debating this with as I tend to think most 'international X days' and stuff are fairly unneeded and pointless.




Heres one for you did you know in parts of america all new mothers get a year to decide whetehr or not to take legal ownership of the baby they have just given birth to
Its called the safe haven law

NO man in western society has this legal choice at all

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKLFIsv7ATE


I am still not really understanding this safe haven law. It sounds to me like...a woman has up to a year to decide if she will give the child up for adoption? But a 'fast track adoption' by the sounds of it...none of the paperwork and such

I do think though, that is a woman can effectively 'opt out' of parenting, then a man should be able to do the same. I know many do in the sense that they don't bother to actually visits their child but they are still held financially responsible (though many find ways to dodge that too).

After watching the video, I am still none the wiser about quite how this law is actually taking rights away from men. Rather than giving women a right that men currently do not have.

the law says a all mothers gets a year to decide whether or not she will decide to keep her baby or to give it up for adoption. This means in the first year the mother is not legally or morally responsible for that new born baby and can simply hand it over to the state to look after then pick it back up a year later...No man on planet earth has this right From what I am reading (reading more into it as the video didn't go into detail) this is not what its about. Its basically decriminalizing abandoning a child...there is not mention of leaving the child for a year then picking it up or anything like that. Once you 'safely abandon' your child, thats it. It goes into the care system. Also there is no mention of this being sex specific

I think I agree with the law actually. It makes babies less likely to suffer neglect and total abandonment by giving those who feel they have no other way out some way to actually do it safely and without being punished. I do feel that some effort should be made to determine if the father would like the child though, it sounds like that does not happen due to the anonymity granted under the law.




Youve totally misunderstood it, probably deliberately. youve been on here hours debating but havent got 4 minutes to watch a clip? convenient especially as the clip doesnt back up your pro feminist agenda This is just ****ing insulting to be quite honest.

I explained why I couldn't watch videos last night. And your post was not clear at all about this safe haven thing. Why on earth I would pretend not to understand something, whilst still saying I would watch the full clip once I could I don't bloody know.

I don't have a 'pro-feminist' agenda.

[Kizzy]

Youve totally misunderstood it, probably deliberately. youve been on here hours debating but havent got 4 minutes to watch a clip? convenient especially as the clip doesnt back up your pro feminist agenda

the law says a all mothers gets a year to decide whether or not she will decide to keep her baby or to give it up for adoption. This means in the first year the mother is not legally or morally repsonsible for that new born baby and can simply hand it over to the state to look after then pick it back up a year later...No man on planet earth has this right

Do you watch jeremy kyle?.... lots of men walk away from their kids, at birth and at various other stages.

[Tom4784]

Not enough men come forward to warrant as many shelters as women and that's purely down to the prison that is masculinity and, regardless of Truth's attempts to find reasons to blame women for everything, it's a prison of men's own making. Not many men will admit to being abused because they see it as an attack on their masculinity and they think it makes them look weak and that they'll be ridiculed by others. If you want more men's shelters then you need to change the way men think so they'll be more likely to come forward and justify the need for more shelters.

[Kizzy]

There does need to be a 2/7 advice line and I would say that would be in the main more needed for the LBGQT community.

[the truth]

over 70% of the homeless are men. of course they need shelter. they're dying or killing themselves on the streets but their lives matter less because they are men

[Vicky.]

over 70% of the homeless are men. of course they need shelter. they're dying or killing themselves on the streets but their lives matter less because they are men

Homeless shelters and D shelters are totally different things though.

I do agree we need more homeless shelters in the first place and should be working to get rid of homelessness alltogether. Its a disgrace that so many are homeless in this country.

[the truth]

Homeless shelters and D shelters are totally different things though.

I do agree we need more homeless shelters in the first place and should be working to get rid of homelessness alltogether. Its a disgrace that so many are homeless in this country.

more shelters and refuges for the tens of thousands of men with no roof no home no hope and suicide as their only escape

[DemolitionRed]

more shelters and refuges for the tens of thousands of men with no roof no home no hope and suicide as their only escape

Take it to the government... the ones responsible for letting this happen.

[Vicky.]

more shelters and refuges for the tens of thousands of men with no roof no home no hope and suicide as their only escape

More homeless shelters in general, but preferably less people ending up homeless in the first place. The amount of people on the street is increasing by the day and that is just completely ****ing wrong. Noone in a developed country like the UK should be living on the streets. Same with foodbanks and the likes tbh. I find it shocking that so many have to use them too.

And the answer to the amount of people on the streets? Putting ****ing spikes in places they could shelter to sleep. Great. Also fining people for being homeless...just a joke

Obviously some people are 'beyond help'...addicts and such who have been helped in the past and just continue to self destruct and end up back on the streets. But so many people who are homeless are just normal people who fell on hard times. Apparently a load of the country are 1 payday away from being homeless themselves :(

[the truth]

Take it to the government... the ones responsible for letting this happen.

Im taking it to you too to shout for men who are the the vats majority of victims , 5 times the suicide rate of women, die 5 years younger , make up over 70% of the homeless and drug users and yet get less than 50 times less support...You are angry about the homeless Are you also angry about this lack of help for males in particular who are neglected infinitely more by the system than women?

[Mystic Mock]

Yes the shelter site is very misleading

http://www.nhs.uk/Livewell/abuse/Pages/domestic-violence-help.aspx




What on earth is with the attitude? 'you could have easily found it in seconds'. Its you that brought the clip up..not me :shrug:

I can't actually watch them at the min either as I have no headphones and husbands watching TV but will watch them later on or in the morning

I don't quite understand what you are meaning by this?
Who is asking men to care about womens rights?

Your entire thread seems to be about women apparently not caring about mens rights?

------------------------------


Also what you seem to be failing to address is that nearly all domestic violence is actually perpetrated by men too. I don't know where the 40% claim comes from either given police statistics say differently?

http://www.refuge.org.uk/about-domestic-violence/domestic-violence-and-gender/



Unless the 2009 study has been done over I guess...

The only thing I will say about that report is how many men have actually come forward about their abuse? As what has been rightfully pointed out is that men get mocked and ridiculed by their male friends (and sadly sometimes really trashy women) for not being "man enough" so that will distort the figures a little bit I think.

[Vicky.]

The only thing I will say about that report is how many men have actually come forward about their abuse? As what has been rightfully pointed out is that men get mocked and ridiculed by their male friends (and sadly sometimes really trashy women) for not being "man enough" so that will distort the figures a little bit I think.

Indeed.

My point earlier on was if men are ashamed to admit it, they do not ask for help, then the authorities or whoever do not know that more help is actually needed for men. Bit of a vicious circle tbh but if more DV refuges opened for men, and they did not get filled then they would just close. The demand has to be there.

I would probably estimate that taking multiple issues of violence towards the same person, its probably a near 50/50 split with male victims and female victims. This would include people in gay relationships too. Apparently 5% of domestic violence cases are perpetrated by females. So the huge majority are perpetrated by men..also I think its worth noting the seriousness of incidents which probably contributes to more help being available for women. 2 women per week are actually KILLED by their partners. Women often come off a lot worse with physical violence cases..most likely because of biology. Its not being sexist to point out that on average women are the weaker sex.

In short, yes, more help for men should be available. But more men need to actually ask for help too.

[Lostie!]

Not enough men come forward to warrant as many shelters as women and that's purely down to the prison that is masculinity and, regardless of Truth's attempts to find reasons to blame women for everything, it's a prison of men's own making. Not many men will admit to being abused because they see it as an attack on their masculinity and they think it makes them look weak and that they'll be ridiculed by others. If you want more men's shelters then you need to change the way men think so they'll be more likely to come forward and justify the need for more shelters.

I'd say you need to change the way people think, the outdated attitudes about male abuse are held by both men and women. I agree that what you say definitely applies to some, but I don't think the whole "self made prison of masculinity" applies in all cases. Some of them won't be speaking out for the very same reason some female victims don't, fear of their abuser and others won't because of the ideas other people (both male and female) put out there about how ridiculous the idea of male domestic abuse is.

[DemolitionRed]

Im taking it to you too to shout for men who are the the vats majority of victims , 5 times the suicide rate of women, die 5 years younger , make up over 70% of the homeless and drug users and yet get less than 50 times less support...You are angry about the homeless Are you also angry about this lack of help for males in particular who are neglected infinitely more by the system than women?

I've made myself pretty clear in past posts, so I'm surprised you have to ask me that. I have three sons and if anyone ever tells them to "man up" I'll personally have their hide. I'm a feminist. I believe in equal rights for men and women alike. I will fight the corner of any man who suffers because he is male and I'll do the same for a female.

Men should not be sleeping on the street in such numbers.
Men are abused by their partners, especially blackmail over the children.
Men are expected to "man up" when all around them is falling apart.
Men are far more likely to lose custody of their children than women.
Men are far more likely to lose their family home during a marital split.

Women are less likely to get the jobs they really want as they grow older.
Women will find aging far harder than men because youth = beauty.
Women don't have the same physical strength as men which is a hindrance.
Women are more likely to die from a heart attack than men.
Women are often expected to be the second earner.

[the truth]

I've made myself pretty clear in past posts, so I'm surprised you have to ask me that. I have three sons and if anyone ever tells them to "man up" I'll personally have their hide. I'm a feminist. I believe in equal rights for men and women alike. I will fight the corner of any man who suffers because he is male and I'll do the same for a female.

Men should not be sleeping on the street in such numbers.
Men are abused by their partners, especially blackmail over the children.
Men are expected to "man up" when all around them is falling apart.
Men are far more likely to lose custody of their children than women.
Men are far more likely to lose their family home during a marital split.

Women are less likely to get the jobs they really want as they grow older.
Women will find aging far harder than men because youth = beauty.
Women don't have the same physical strength as men which is a hindrance.
Women are more likely to die from a heart attack than men.
Women are often expected to be the second earner.

yet women get 50 times as much support as men?

[DemolitionRed]

yet women get 50 times as much support as men?

You mean women get 50percent more support than men in specific areas?

[Tom4784]

I'd say you need to change the way people think, the outdated attitudes about male abuse are held by both men and women. I agree that what you say definitely applies to some, but I don't think the whole "self made prison of masculinity" applies in all cases. Some of them won't be speaking out for the very same reason some female victims don't, fear of their abuser and others won't because of the ideas other people (both male and female) put out there about how ridiculous the idea of male domestic abuse is.

It's not a blanket statement and yes, some women do spread the stereotype but the fact that male domestic abuse goes unreported mostly a problem created by men's attitudes to masculinity, the idea that they are somehow less 'manly' if they suffer abuse is the driving force behind the silence. I do agree that attitudes need changing but the attitudes of men need to change first and everything else will follow on from that.

[Tom4784]

We definitely do need more homeless shelters but that has nothing to do with male domestic shelters and, if you insist on changing the goalposts, there are no reason to specify only men in issues of homelessness as it's an issue that affects both genders. The reason for separate Domestic abuse shelters for men and women are obvious but that's not the case for homeless shelters.

Truth, if you honestly care about the homeless then you'd want more homeless shelters in general, not more shelters just for men.

[Redway]

Yea thats right, ignore the issue at hand, attack the poster and play to the gallery and bring some good old fashioned group bullying into it..well done pal:nono:

My comment was just that b. There's no group right behind me but they're obviously all thinking the same thing.

[the truth]

My comment was just that b. There's no group right behind me but they're obviously all thinking the same thing.

hiding behind each other makes you invisible