Donald Trump & the Pope offers to 'help' terminally ill toddler Charlie Gard

[arista]

http://news.sky.com/story/donald-trump-offers-to-help-terminally-ill-toddler-charlie-gard-10935478

[Mr Trump waded into the debate by referencing Pope Francis' plea for the toddler's parents to be allowed to "accompany and treat their child until the end".

The US President wrote on Twitter: "If we can help little #CharlieGard, as per our friends in the U.K. and the Pope, we would be delighted to do so."]


No harm going to USA for treatment
its better that Nothing

[AnnieK]

They have exhausted every legal arguement though so surely there is nothing now that can be done? Can't see the court of human rights over turning its judgement just coz trump said he supports them. As sad as it is....I think they have to just spend their time with him and let him go.

[Cherie]

They have exhausted every legal arguement though so surely there is nothing now that can be done? Can't see the court of human rights over turning its judgement just coz trump said he supports them. As sad as it is....I think they have to just spend their time with him and let him go.

Agree, I think the parents have become slightly deranged with the stress and as awful as it is, they need to let him go. Trump coming in at the 12th hour isn't helping anyone, I'm surprised at the Pope because if it weren't for medical assistance he wouldn't be alive.

[Greg!]

Why's he getting involved, multiple courts have already made a final decision. He's so annoying UGH

[arista]

Why's he getting involved, multiple courts have already made a final decision. He's so annoying UGH

Blame the Pope

[the truth]

top man trump pro life all the way.

[Greg!]

top man trump pro life all the way.

brain damaged and in constant never ending pain isn't my idea of life.

[DemolitionRed]

top man trump pro life all the way.

Except for his own citizens. Thousands of Americans die because they can't afford medical treatment.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Blame the Pope

maybe he could ask his pal God to help or perhaps he is too busy trying in vain to save the 20,000 children who die every day of hunger in the world

the pope is a chalatan of the most evil kind

[DemolitionRed]

Or perhaps we could ask the pope to help the American poor (https://www.moveforhunger.org/hunger-and-homelessness/)

[Alf]

I don't have any opinion on this story, but I found this article interesting.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/living/3318065/arthur-olga-estopinan-arturito-charlie-gard-court-case/

[Marsh.]

maybe he could ask his pal God to help or perhaps he is too busy trying in vain to save the 20,000 children who die every day of hunger in the world

the pope is a chalatan of the most evil kind

Yes, because the Pope and his religion teaches to pray to God for magic cures and he will save everybody from death.

Oh wait.... No, you've completely missed the point on purpose to make some pathetic point of your own.

[Tom4784]

It's gross that Trump would wade into such a tragic story and try to use it to grab some good press for once.

Odious ogre of a man.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes, because the Pope and his religion teaches to pray to God for magic cures and he will save everybody from death.

Oh wait.... No, you've completely missed the point on purpose to make some pathetic point of your own.

And they 'pray to God why'

Is 'he' not omnipotent?

Just what is the point. Because this should be really good...

[GiRTh]

It's gross that Trump would wade into such a tragic story and try to use it to grab some good press for once.

Odious ogre of a man.x2

[Alf]

It's gross that Trump would wade into such a tragic story and try to use it to grab some good press for once.

Odious ogre of a man.He's done many things like this, before he was even President. Including sending his own plane to bring an ill child for treatment. And has never bragged about it.

http://thepoliticalinsider.com/airline-couldnt-help-sick-child-so-donald-trump-came-to-the-rescue/

So I'd disagree, and probably think he actually cares.

[Marsh.]

And they 'pray to God why'

Is 'he' not omnipotent?

Just what is the point. Because this should be really good...

Well, there's no point in me going off topic and into that with you?

But I can assure you they don't sit there praying for magic money trees and to stop death.

[Vanessa]

That's nice of him. I hope they give that little boy a chance :fc:

[the truth]

brain damaged and in constant never ending pain isn't my idea of life.

Who made you the grim reaper? Who gave you the right to decide who should be killed? How do you know for absolute certain the treatment for charlie in america couldnt save his life or prolong it for many years. Who are you to decide people with brain damage must die? The BMA is meant to save life thats what the hippocratic oath is meant to mean a life long oath to saving lives. All we hear from the left and the BMA is violent support for mass abortion with no limits and the right to die . do you agree with no limit abortions? Do you agree women who want 8 month abortion because the baby may be disabled should be allowed to?

When labour were in power not only did 1000s of people die of thirst in hospitals like in stafford. World record levels of filth in UK hospitals with endless MRSA which has been eradicated since the tories came in in 2010 and brought in tougher rules and stronger complaints procedures within hospitals. Not only did record numbers die of blood clots under labour (25000 a year where are the protest marches over the biggest killer of british people in history?) Thousands of people had nil by mouth given to them without consulting the family and were refused treatment in some cases not because the patient was terminally ill but instead severaly disabled?

The left signed a contract with the GP doctors in 2004 which allowed 90% of them not to do out of hours work anymore. This is what has caused the junior doctors strike. By left wing one eyed rioters and mob rule had seen them ignore the failings of their own party and this disastrous contract. In wales they started taking peoples organs without their legal consent. Across the UK under labour, billions was spent on plastic surgery, whilst the welsh nhs ran endlessly higher debts and waiting lists doubled and virtually all ambulance emergency targets were missed and life or death operations cancelled. Time to prioritise between life saving treatment and superficial surgery too

But when this is pointed out to the left, their only defence is 1) oh that wasnt us it was new labour. Pathetic. It WAS labour who illegally bombed iraq...and half that lot are still in power like harmon yvette cooper nice guy andy burnham lammy , tom watson etc 2) Oh and its all the daily mails fault

[DemolitionRed]

Who made you the grim reaper? Who gave you the right to decide who should be killed? How do you know for absolute certain the treatment for charlie in america couldnt save his life or prolong it for many years. Who are you to decide people with brain damage must die? The BMA is meant to save life thats what the hippocratic oath is meant to mean a life long oath to saving lives. All we hear from the left and the BMA is violent support for mass abortion with no limits and the right to die . do you agree with no limit abortions? Do you agree women who want 8 month abortion because the baby may be disabled should be allowed to?

When labour were in power not only did 1000s of people die of thirst in hospitals like in stafford. World record levels of filth in UK hospitals with endless MRSA which has been eradicated since the tories came in in 2010 and brought in tougher rules and stronger complaints procedures within hospitals. Not only did record numbers die of blood clots under labour (25000 a year where are the protest marches over the biggest killer of british people in history?) Thousands of people had nil by mouth given to them without consulting the family and were refused treatment in some cases not because the patient was terminally ill but instead severaly disabled?

The left signed a contract with the GP doctors in 2004 which allowed 90% of them not to do out of hours work anymore. This is what has caused the junior doctors strike. By left wing one eyed rioters and mob rule had seen them ignore the failings of their own party and this disastrous contract. In wales they started taking peoples organs without their legal consent. Across the UK under labour, billions was spent on plastic surgery, whilst the welsh nhs ran endlessly higher debts and waiting lists doubled and virtually all ambulance emergency targets were missed and life or death operations cancelled. Time to prioritise between life saving treatment and superficial surgery too

But when this is pointed out to the left, their only defence is 1) oh that wasnt us it was new labour. Pathetic. It WAS labour who illegally bombed iraq...and half that lot are still in power like harmon yvette cooper nice guy andy burnham lammy , tom watson etc 2) Oh and its all the daily mails fault

I suggest you know **** about the 'hippocratic oath' (an archaic oath written 2500 years ago) because if you did, you would know that both cutting of the flesh and abortion is forbidden. You would know that most universities have their own oath which is a modern day moral compass that includes, not over treating.

As for the rest of your post; what does it have to do with Charlie Gard and GOS. Why use Charlie and the fantastic hospital he's in, as ammunition for your latest Labour rant?

[Kazanne]

Apparently there is hope in the US as a little boy with the same condition as Charlie has reached his 6th birthday,where there is life there is hope and surely he deserves a chance.

[bots]

I get really angry when prominent figures who know absolutely zero about the situation stick their beaks in

They are not helping, they are perpetuating both the little lads pain and the parents false hope.

The boy is in constant pain, not able to move, hear or even cry. Really, people should think of what they are putting this baby through. I don't think any one of us would want to endure that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week

The american treatment cannot cure him, it can only reduce some of the SYMPTOMS, nothing more

[Toy Soldier]

The american treatment cannot cure him, it can only reduce some of the SYMPTOMS, nothing more

Yes, I think that's where some of the confusion lies... people think or are being lead to believe that he's being denied the shot at a cure.

There is no cure. He has an incurable genetic illness. It's tragic, but those are the facts - he cannot recover, his disease will kill him, the only question is how long that can be delayed.

I'm in two minds over this to be honest. As far as I can tell, from my own point of view, it would be far kinder to let him go. He's not being killed. He is being allowed to die naturally. However, on the other hand, I am slightly uncomfortable with the fact that the decision making process is being taken away from the parents and given to the doctors and courts... surely that should only happen if the parents have been found to be negligent or incapable of making these decisions?

[the truth]

Apparently there is hope in the US as a little boy with the same condition as Charlie has reached his 6th birthday,where there is life there is hope and surely he deserves a chance.

exactly but rather than give him a chance the left can't wait for him to die

[the truth]

I get really angry when prominent figures who know absolutely zero about the situation stick their beaks in

They are not helping, they are perpetuating both the little lads pain and the parents false hope.

The boy is in constant pain, not able to move, hear or even cry. Really, people should think of what they are putting this baby through. I don't think any one of us would want to endure that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week

The american treatment cannot cure him, it can only reduce some of the SYMPTOMS, nothing more

speak for yourself I'd rather have a chance to live

[Greg!]

All the "treatment" will do is prolong his suffering. He wouldn't have any quality of life. Doctors, surgeons and the courts have all decided this. It's time to let him go.

[the truth]

Except for his own citizens. Thousands of Americans die because they can't afford medical treatment.

he's reducing the payments
thousands died of abuse neglect and corruption under labour

[the truth]

All the "treatment" will do is prolong his suffering. He wouldn't have any quality of life. Doctors, surgeons and the courts have all decided this. It's time to let him go.

if a person wants to kill themselves that's up to them but to kill a baby by refusing his only chance and turning his life machine off is wrong. you don't know how long he will survive or what medical advances will come in the time his life is prolonged. how dare anyone tell someone else they haven't got the right to live.

[Livia]

Trump has no power to overrule an English nor a European court. This is just him using this tragic story to big himself up.

[the truth]

whether that's true or not liv. doesn't really matter. the offer is there for treatment the question is whether it's worth the pain for poor charlie

[Livia]

whether that's true or not liv. doesn't really matter. the offer is there for treatment the question is whether it's worth the pain for poor charlie

The offer is not there because an English court has ruled on it. I would suggest Trump has enough sh1t to deal with without sticking his schnoz into this.

God love the little boy...if there was any other way... but all the evidence has said otherwise. Keeping him alive is cruel. If I had an animal that was suffering and beyond help I wouldn't be allowed to keep it alive for my own sake. It looks to me like that's what's happening here.

[Tom4784]

he's reducing the payments
thousands died of abuse neglect and corruption under labour

Psst Truthy, Labour isn't a thing in US politics.

[Kizzy]

Is it because they are paying?... I don't see him stepping in to aid anyone who has a child needing treatment in the US or the UK who has no funding or insurance.
Much as I would love to see a miracle here I don't see him as anything other than a narcissist using poor Charlie to curry favour.

[DemolitionRed]

I get really angry when prominent figures who know absolutely zero about the situation stick their beaks in

They are not helping, they are perpetuating both the little lads pain and the parents false hope.

The boy is in constant pain, not able to move, hear or even cry. Really, people should think of what they are putting this baby through. I don't think any one of us would want to endure that 24 hours a day, 7 days a week

The american treatment cannot cure him, it can only reduce some of the SYMPTOMS, nothing more

I agree.

Its been reported that Charlie is much further along with this illness than any children treated thus far in America. At best, he may be able to come off his life support machine and breath on his own but he would still remain in a persistent vegetative state.

[arista]

https://d2kmm3vx031a1h.cloudfront.net/J69P53d7Qh6aPOTYBunb_DM_5July.jpg

[Alf]

I think it's worth mentioning that members of Trumps administration spoke with the parents before he made the tweet. It wasn't just done out of the Blue.

[DemolitionRed]

I think it's worth mentioning that members of Trumps administration spoke with the parents before he made the tweet. It wasn't just done out of the Blue.

I suspect that either Trump or some PR person thought this stunt would be a way to distract from what the Republicans are doing to vulnerable people in the USA.

22 June 2017: Trump’s Budget Cuts Deeply Into Medicaid and Anti-Poverty Efforts
(https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/22/us/politics/trump-budget-cuts.html)
22 June: Disabled protesters dragged away by cops (https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/6/22/15855424/disability-protest-medicaid-mcconnell)

For Trump (and the Whitehouse) to do **** like this and then pretend that he cares about the Charlie Gard is nothing more than a cynical attempt to manipulate the public; it's being done in an effort to 'humanise' someone who doesn't give a damn about ordinary people.

[DemolitionRed]

Arista can you please scale down the size of those images you keep posting. I often use my mobile to look on here and when those images are so big, it takes ages to load a thread and then it messes with the scroll through.

[anne666]

I agree.

Its been reported that Charlie is much further along with this illness than any children treated thus far in America. At best, he may be able to come off his life support machine and breath on his own but he would still remain in a persistent vegetative state.

Also the cases of other children's treatment are misleading. No child with Charlie's illness has been treated in the US.

https://www.judiciary.gov.uk/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/gosh-v-yates-and-gard-20170411-1.pdf

14
Charlie’s parents have sadly, but bravely, acknowledged and accepted that the quality of life that Charlie has at present is not worth sustaining. He can only breathe through a ventilator and, although they believe that he has a sleep/wake cycle and can recognise them and react to them when they are close, they realise that he cannot go on as he is, lying in bed, unable to move, fed through a tube, breathing through a machine.

16
It seemed at the outset of this hearing that there might have been a lone voice
in the USA that was offering what had been described in some reports as
“pioneering treatment”. Understandably, Charlie’s parents have grasped that
possibility. They have done all that they could possibly have done. They have
very publicly raised funds. What parents would not do the same? But I have
to say, having heard the evidence, that this case has never been about
affordability, but about whether there is anything to be done for Charlie.

17
At one stage, Great Ormond Street Hospital got as far as deciding to apply for ethical permission to attempt nucleoside therapy here - a treatment that has never been used on patients with this form of MDDS - but, by the time that decision had been made, Charlie’s condition had greatly worsened and the view of all here was that his epileptic encephalopathy was such that his brain damage was severe and irreversible that treatment was potentially painful but incapable of achieving anything positive for him.

18
I was aware that I was to hear evidence from the doctor1 in the USA who was, reportedly, offering what had been referred to as “pioneering treatment”. Before he gave evidence, I encouraged the treating consultant at Great Ormond Street Hospital to speak with him which he was able and willing to do. I am truly grateful to these experts for the time that they have given to this case.
The outcome of that discussion is illuminating. The doctor in the USA said as
follows:
“Seeing the documents this morning has been very helpful. I can
understand the opinions that he is so severely affected by
encephalopathy that any attempt at therapy would be futile. I agree that
it is very unlikely that he will improve with that therapy. It is unlikely.”

19
However, the US doctor made it clear that, were Charlie in the United States,
he would treat him if the parents so desired and could pay for it. As I have
already said, funding in this case is not an issue. The US doctor also
confirmed during this telephone conversation that he had never treated with
nucleoside therapy anyone who had encephalopathy. Therefore, he was unable to indicate from any scientific basis whether a patient with encephalopathy would respond positively.

20
Charlie suffers from the RRM2B mutation of MDDS. No one in the world has
ever treated this form of MDDS with nucleoside therapy, although patients
with a different strain, TK2, have received nucleoside therapy with some
recorded benefit. In mouse models, the benefit to TK2 patients was put at
about 4% of life expectancy. There is no evidence that nucleoside therapy can cross the blood/brain barrier which it must do to treat RRM2B, although the US doctor expressed the hope that it might cross that barrier.

21
There is unanimity among the experts from whom I have heard that nucleoside therapy cannot reverse structural brain damage. I dare say that medical science may benefit objectively from the experiment, but experimentation cannot be in Charlie’s best interests unless there is a prospect of benefit for him.

[arista]

Arista can you please scale down the size of those images you keep posting. I often use my mobile to look on here and when those images are so big, it takes ages to load a thread and then it messes with the scroll through.


Sorry DR
I do not get time
BBC and Sky site
both do papers large

[GiRTh]

Confusing. Its a well known fact that Trump deliberately cut off Healthcare for his sick nephew yet now he wants to be a hero.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3382756/Donald-Trump-cut-medical-treatment-nephew-s-sick-baby.html

[DemolitionRed]

Sorry DR
I do not get time
BBC and Sky site
both do papers large

Carry on then arista, but keep in mind, those of us who often use our mobiles to look at threads, won't easily be able to look at the threads you post pictures to.

[Wizard.]

What a wonderful man. I want his Presidential cock in my heart :love:

[Alf]

Confusing. Its a well known fact that Trump deliberately cut off Healthcare for his sick nephew yet now he wants to be a hero.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3382756/Donald-Trump-cut-medical-treatment-nephew-s-sick-baby.htmlTwo day's of searching for some dirt, and all you could come up with is sibling rivalry.

I bet you was gutted it was the Daily Mail?

Stay off the CNN Girth, it'll send you as loopy as them.

[Beso]

:shrug: Worth a shot innit!

[GiRTh]

Two day's of searching for some dirt, and all you could come up with is sibling rivalry.

I bet you was gutted it was the Daily Mail?

Stay off the CNN Girth, it'll send you as loopy as them.Was expecting you say this was old news. David Cay Johnson has been telling this story for ages definitely since Trump was running. I just thought it was time it was posted. Dont post on here much these days, not always up with the latest posts, but dont know why you think I was looking for stories mate? This ones pretty easy to find and, as I said in my other post, also pretty much common knowledge. :thumbs:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-revoke-cut-off-child-medical-bills-family-feud-a6795131.html

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2016/08/trump-files-donald-sick-infant-medical-care/

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/what-sort-of-man-is-donald-trump

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/09/donald-trumps-cruel-streak/501554/

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/03/us/politics/for-donald-trump-lessons-from-a-brothers-suffering.html?mcubz=0

19KI_2X2Sfs

Incidentally, Trump hasn't refuted any of the claims in Johnsons book

Check out co-author/author of 'art of the deal' Tony Scwartz too . Both have told eerily true stories of what Trump would be like in Office.

[DemolitionRed]

Good but horrifying video Girth. It certainly confirms a lack of empathy and a lot of sociopathic tendencies.

[GiRTh]

Its a long vid and I dont think Cay Johnson comes across all that well at times during the vid but he's told those same stories on a number of shows before the election about his personal experiences with Trump.

[GiRTh]

Australian prime minister roasts Trump: 'We are winning so much' (http://www.politico.com/story/2017/06/15/trump-malcolm-turnbull-australia-prime-minister-239584)

While I'm posting Trump related news that I'd forgot about. Oz PM Turnbull isnt really known for his sense of humour but here he is finding much to take the p*ss out of with the Donald.

'I got this Russian guy' :joker:

[Oliver_W]

Apparently there is hope in the US as a little boy with the same condition as Charlie has reached his 6th birthday,where there is life there is hope and surely he deserves a chance.

While the have the same condition, I'm pretty sure Charlie's physical state and brain have been damaged more than the boy in the USA.

[Alf]

JdSM6Os-mk8

[RichardG]

let the poor boy die in peace

[JTM45]

let the poor boy die in peace

^^^ This.

The poor kid looks like he's barely ticking over.

His mother has insisted today that ''he's not in pain and suffering'' which is not what highly experienced doctors are saying.
How can this woman claim to know better than experts in the field ? I know it's a tragic and highly emotional situation but the parents have gotta' put the baby's needs and quality of life considerations before their personal wishes and understandable emotions. There's gotta' be a point where putting a halt to the suffering has to be the right and only way forward and it would appear that that point has been reached and is now being exceeded. I wouldn't want my suffering baby to be put through experimental treatment when the chances of that working just barely exist while the extended suffering is guaranteed and he will still die at the end of it.
As for the Pope and Trump................what a sick pair of self-obsessed attention *****s!!!! Trump can barely get a thing done and nothing properly so why, when he's desperate to pass a new 'Healthcare' bill , mainly just as another spite attempt at Obama, that will leave at least 23 million Americans unable to afford healthcare, is he offering care to people from the other side of the World ? The perceived positive press he thinks it will give him of course! What a selfish douchebag piece of scum!!!!

Hopefully the poor kid will be at peace soon.

[JTM45]

The simple truth about Trump's self-serving BS............ If it was an un-selfish, genuine act of care and compassion then why would it even need to be spoken about other than in private, between the parents and Trump's goons ? We wouldn't even know about it if this was the case.