Is this Britains future.

[Brillopad]

Looking at the rest of Europe it suggests it is. What a great place to live. :shrug:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8OY_KUNqQ4

[user104658]

Link is ****ed so dunno.

[arista]

Link is ****ed so dunno.

Hard Working TS
Sweden is in a mess , now

[Brillopad]

Link is ****ed so dunno.

Yep, don't know what went wrong.

[user104658]

Hard Working TS
Sweden is in a mess , nowNot as much of a mess as Brillo's link :nono:

[Cherie]

It opened for me fine, that's scary ****

[Brillopad]

Not as much of a mess as Brillo's link :nono:

Brillo's link is in working order. :roll eyes:

[Cherie]

Brillo's link is in working order. :roll eyes:

The video is indefensible "hence it's not working" is a handy dodge

[Brillopad]

The video is indefensible "hence it's not working" is a handy dodge

Indeed.

[user104658]

The video is indefensible "hence it's not working" is a handy dodgeIt was not working. It is now because Brillo has edited the post to fix it. The first time I came into the thread there was literally nothing to see, so it wasn't any sort of dodge, handy or otherwise li'l missy.

I've watched the video and I do understand why people are scared by it. To be honest my overall thinking lately is that there's an uncomfortable truth we're all ignoring and it always strikes me when I see these videos where crowds of people are swarming like ants;

The world is ****ed for the pure and simple reason that it is grossly overpopulated full stop, that problem gets worse by the second, and there's nothing we can do about it.

I swear the scariest link on the Internet is not an article or a video. It's just this:

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

It tells its own story and its all you need to know. IMO the world can comfortably support less than half of that number. And look at it. It just keeps on growing. Horrifying. We are such a plague...

[Kazanne]

Looking at the rest of Europe it suggests it is. What a great place to live. :shrug:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y8OY_KUNqQ4

Scarey stuff brillo,it will happen eventually,lets see how the PC brigade explain things then.

[Cherie]

It was not working. It is now because Brillo has edited the post to fix it. The first time I came into the thread there was literally nothing to see, so it wasn't any sort of dodge, handy or otherwise li'l missy.

I've watched the video and I do understand why people are scared by it. To be honest my overall thinking lately is that there's an uncomfortable truth we're all ignoring and it always strikes me when I see these videos where crowds of people are swarming like ants;

The world is ****ed for the pure and simple reason that it is grossly overpopulated full stop, that problem gets worse by the second, and there's nothing we can do about it.

I swear the scariest link on the Internet is not an article or a video. It's just this:

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

It tells its own story and its all you need to know. IMO the world can comfortably support less than half of that number. And look at it. It just keeps on growing. Horrifying. We are such a plague...


I think Europe is getting to be a very scary place, Something like 9,000 migrants arrived from Africa near Venice last week, the numbers are staggering.

[Brillopad]

It was not working. It is now because Brillo has edited the post to fix it. The first time I came into the thread there was literally nothing to see, so it wasn't any sort of dodge, handy or otherwise li'l missy.

I've watched the video and I do understand why people are scared by it. To be honest my overall thinking lately is that there's an uncomfortable truth we're all ignoring and it always strikes me when I see these videos where crowds of people are swarming like ants;

The world is ****ed for the pure and simple reason that it is grossly overpopulated full stop, that problem gets worse by the second, and there's nothing we can do about it.

I swear the scariest link on the Internet is not an article or a video. It's just this:

http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

It tells its own story and its all you need to know. IMO the world can comfortably support less than half of that number. And look at it. It just keeps on growing. Horrifying. We are such a plague...

Seeing that certainly makes you realise how quickly the population is growing and is very worrying.

But uncomfortable truth or not this excessive population growth is a far bigger problem within certain cultures. How do we address that if we are not allowed to mention it without fear of being labelled?

[Brillopad]

Scarey stuff brillo,it will happen eventually,lets see how the PC brigade explain things then.

I hope the brave guy on the mobility scooter was ok. They turned their attentions to him apparently but that is when the filming stopped. No boundaries.

[Kizzy]

There are no go areas here where gang violence is rife already though, this would be the scene if you walked in with a film crew in many areas of London for instance, obviously it desperately needs addressing.

[Brillopad]

There are no go areas here where gang violence is rife already though, this would be the scene if you walked in with a film crew in many areas of London for instance, obviously it desperately needs addressing.

It does if we want to be able to live in a safe country and even more importantly want our children to grow up in a safe country. This country is becoming more violent and dangerous by the day.

[Kizzy]

It does if we want to be able to live in a safe country and even more importantly want our children to grow up in a safe country. This country is becoming more violent and dangerous by the day.

What would be a solution?

[Brillopad]

What would be a solution?

I think there are a combination of reasons including migration, government policies and the creation of an environment where certain things cannot be discussed and therefore don't get addressed as they should - just escalating the problems.

What would you suggest?

[user104658]

A large part of the issue with the violence though is gangs / gang culture in London. E.g. The majority of these "acid attacks" are gang related. And yes, if we're being honest, there are many young 2nd / 3rd generation immigrants who end up in gangs, but this tends to be down to poverty and social stagnation, which exists across the board in our cities. Even if you completely halted all immigration, 100% of it, our cities would still have problems with gangs... The problem is a social and economic one that goes far beyond immigration.

[Brillopad]

A large part of the issue with the violence though is gangs / gang culture in London. E.g. The majority of these "acid attacks" are gang related. And yes, if we're being honest, there are many young 2nd / 3rd generation immigrants who end up in gangs, but this tends to be down to poverty and social stagnation, which exists across the board in our cities. Even if you completely halted all immigration, 100% of it, our cities would still have problems with gangs... The problem is a social and economic one that goes far beyond immigration.

But don't you think many immigrants are their own worst enemy in this respect. If they make little or no attempts to assimilate i.e. learning to speak English or improving their language skills they will have problems. Learning to speak the lingo is a fundamental skill required to learn most other things.

I really don't see the problems - learning basic English and maths skills are free to non-English speakers, they have plenty of time to work on it and have others they can go to these classes with. We bend over backwards to help with these things. They need to adopt the attitude most of us do that, other than benefits, nothing is handed on a plate and they have to work for it.

It really is difficult to sympathise with people who have that mentality. So what do they do - as you say they often resort to gangs and violence and criminal activity, probably not that far removed from where they 'escaped' from.

Is it really simply a case of you can take the man out of the third world but you can't take the third world out of the man.

[user104658]

But don't you think many immigrants are their own worst enemy in this respect. If they make little or no attempts to assimilate i.e. learning to speak English or improving their language skills they will have problems. Learning to speak the lingo is a fundamental skill required to learn most other things.

I really don't see the problems - learning basic English and maths skills are free to non-English speakers, they have plenty of time to work on it and have others they can go to these classes with. We bend over backwards to help with these things. They need to adopt the attitude most of us do that, other than benefits, nothing is handed on a plate and they have to work for it.

It really is difficult to sympathise with people who have that mentality. So what do they do - as you say they often resort to gangs and violence and criminal activity, probably not that far removed from where they 'escaped' from.

Is it really simply a case of you can take the man out of the third world but you can't take the third world out of the man.But plenty of the people in these gangs aren't immigrants. Large numbers are, simply because large numbers of people in the areas of cities prone to gang culture are, but it's certainly not confined to immigrant populations. And in fact, even when it is immigrant families, it tends to be 2nd/3rd generation youths born and raised in Britain, schooled in England, and who speak English as their FIRST language, who end up in these gangs. I'd say the gangs are more often than not "culturally English", in fact. So your final statement doesn't really explain why it happens.

[Brillopad]

But plenty of the people in these gangs aren't immigrants. Large numbers are, simply because large numbers of people in the areas of cities prone to gang culture are, but it's certainly not confined to immigrant populations. And in fact, even when it is immigrant families, it tends to be 2nd/3rd generation youths born and raised in Britain, schooled in England, and who speak English as their FIRST language, who end up in these gangs. I'd say the gangs are more often than not "culturally English", in fact. So your final statement doesn't really explain why it happens.

I disagree that gangs are culturally English. I feel the gang mentality is something that has been brought here from third world countries. Gangs are rife in countries such as Africa and South America as is violence, rape and criminal activity - far worse than here.

[Tom4784]

'They aren't culturally english! They aren't white!'

TS has hit the nail on the head, gang culture is a social and economic issue rather than a race one.

[Brillopad]

'They aren't culturally english! They aren't white!'

TS has hit the nail on the head, gang culture is a social and economic issue rather than a race one.

Where exactly is the social and economic issue. All those living here have access to free education, free health care and free benefits (where needed) - everyone is equal in that respect.

Those from immigrant families have much more opportunities (especially 2nd/3rd generations) than they would likely have had if born into the countries their parents/grandparents came from. Many do do well. For those that don't there has to be an element of self-responsibility. You can't just keep blaming everything on us - it's a cop-out.

If you want to keep harping on about skin colour - I would like to know how many white gangs there are in comparison to non-white gangs. I think it is obvious there are a lot less white gangs - so how does that make gangs culturally English. That makes no sense.

[user104658]

Where exactly is the social and economic issue. All those living here have access to free education, free health care and free benefits (where needed) - everyone is equal in that respect.

Those from immigrant families have much more opportunities (especially 2nd/3rd generations) than they would likely have had if born into the countries their parents/grandparents came from. Many do do well. For those that don't there has to be an element of self-responsibility. You can't just keep blaming everything on us - it's a cop-out.

If you want to keep harping on about skin colour - I would like to know how many white gangs there are in comparison to non-white gangs. I think it is obvious there are a lot less white gangs - so how does that make gangs culturally English. That makes no sense.The majority of gangs are mixed-race (as in, they have white, black, Asian, middle eastern, the works).

[DemolitionRed]

Where exactly is the social and economic issue. All those living here have access to free education, free health care and free benefits (where needed) - everyone is equal in that respect.

Those from immigrant families have much more opportunities (especially 2nd/3rd generations) than they would likely have had if born into the countries their parents/grandparents came from. Many do do well. For those that don't there has to be an element of self-responsibility. You can't just keep blaming everything on us - it's a cop-out.

If you want to keep harping on about skin colour - I would like to know how many white gangs there are in comparison to non-white gangs. I think it is obvious there are a lot less white gangs - so how does that make gangs culturally English. That makes no sense.

You’ve clearly never lived in London. White gangs around London tend to be well organized units that earn themselves a lot of money. In Central and East London the white gangs (gangsters) are notorious. These aren’t the teenagers that get out of hand on a Saturday night, they are organized crime syndicates that provide drugs, finances and sort out and rid people of stolen goods and credit card fraud and its been going on for decades.

Remember the Cray twins? Well they were small fry compared to Eddie Richardsons mob. Gangland rivalry amongst London whites has been going on since before our grannies were born and its still going on today with people like Curtis ‘cocky’ Warren who’s run multi £million cannabis smuggling operations. What about the feared Adams family (Terry the Godfather Adams) or Scull cracker Wheatley who earned his nick from pistol whipping his victims round the head. Dave Courtney’s gang is still going strong. I’ve met Courtney on the club scene in London. He comes in flanked by bodyguards built like brick ****houses.

White gangs in London are organized crime gangsters (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LondonGangster) and a lot more lethal than your average teenage gang. Though they do pull in the small fry gangs to do their dirty work.

And then of course we have the massive football fan gangs who are white.

Edited to add the notorious white gypsy gangs.

[Brillopad]

You’ve clearly never lived in London. White gangs around London tend to be well organized units that earn themselves a lot of money. In Central and East London the white gangs (gangsters) are notorious. These aren’t the teenagers that get out of hand on a Saturday night, they are organized crime syndicates that provide drugs, finances and sort out and rid people of stolen goods and credit card fraud and its been going on for decades.

Remember the Cray twins? Well they were small fry compared to Eddie Richardsons mob. Gangland rivalry amongst London whites has been going on since before our grannies were born and its still going on today with people like Curtis ‘cocky’ Warren who’s run multi £million cannabis smuggling operations. What about the feared Adams family (Terry the Godfather Adams) or Scull cracker Wheatley who earned his nick from pistol whipping his victims round the head. Dave Courtney’s gang is still going strong. I’ve met Courtney on the club scene in London. He comes in flanked by bodyguards built like brick ****houses.

White gangs in London are organized crime gangsters (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/LondonGangster) and a lot more lethal than your average teenage gang. Though they do pull in the small fry gangs to do their dirty work.

And then of course we have the massive football fan gangs who are white.

Edited to add the notorious white gypsy gangs.

So you have mentioned some apparently well known white gangs spread across how many years/decades I don't know. But how proportionate are they to black/Asian gangs, especially today. Most violent crime including the use of guns and knives and murder that we see on the news seem to involve black gang members and there has been a definite rise in sex related crimes committed by Asian men. We hear more and more about these kind of crimes daily and they are worrying times for all. We have to address this.

[DemolitionRed]

So you have mentioned some apparently well known white gangs spread across how many years/decades I don't know. But how proportionate are they to black/Asian gangs, especially today. Most violent crime including the use of guns and knives and murder that we see on the news seem to involve black gang members and there has been a definite rise in sex related crimes committed by Asian men. We hear more and more about these kind of crimes daily and they are worrying times for all. We have to address this.

If we make a comparison with blacks, Asians, mixed race gangs and white gangs, the white gangs would come out on top. The white gangs that really make up the numbers are the football hooligan firms. They are massive in comparison to all other gangs in the UK

[lime]

I think Europe is getting to be a very scary place, Something like 9,000 migrants arrived from Africa near Venice last week, the numbers are staggering.

Cherie I know you are Irish...there was a chap on the the Joe Duffy show the other day that was walking through Freedom park in Kilkenny...he and his son were savageley beaten by Irish gangs..The numbers of those who want to leave their own countries to get to where we are is staggering...But ...nobody can deny that..Isn't that human nature to leave and hope for a better life for you and your kids.....


I left South Africa as a Boer ...because of what was happening to us whites..
I left with a great education ...thanks to Apartheied

[Brillopad]

Cherie I know you are Irish...there was a chap on the the Joe Duffy show the other day that was walking through Freedom park in Kilkenny...he and his son were savageley beaten by Irish gangs..The numbers of those who want to leave their own countries to get to where we are is staggering...But ...nobody can deny that..Isn't that human nature to leave and hope for a better life for you and your kids.....


I left South Africa as a Boer ...because of what was happening to us whites..
I left with a great education ...thanks to Apartheied

Have you seen how Italy are struggling. One MP is calling for a referendum. They can't cope. It is all very well people wanting to better their lives but the lives of those in the countries they crash-land in matter too.

[DemolitionRed]

Have you seen how Italy are struggling. One MP is calling for a referendum. They can't cope. It is all very well people wanting to better their lives but the lives of those in the countries they crash-land in matter too.

True but Italy's fragile economy isn't suffering because of migration! Immigration is the last of its worries.

[lime]

Have you seen how Italy are struggling. One MP is calling for a referendum. They can't cope. It is all very well people wanting to better their lives but the lives of those in the countries they crash-land in matter too.

Glad you mentioned Italy brillo..Just back from a two week stay there...When is the last time you were there.

There is no denying they as a well known country as migrants are having a problem with migrants..But They are Intelligent enough not to blame all crime on foreigners...

[lime]

True but Italy's fragile economy isn't suffering because of migration! Immigration is the last of its worries.

:colour:



English is not my first launage....You said it much better than me

[Brillopad]

Glad you mentioned Italy brillo..Just back from a two week stay there...When is the last time you were there.

There is no denying they as a well known country as migrants are having a problem with migrants..But They are Intelligent enough not to blame all crime on foreigners...

And neither did I. But there are significant issues.

[Tom4784]

Where exactly is the social and economic issue. All those living here have access to free education, free health care and free benefits (where needed) - everyone is equal in that respect.

Those from immigrant families have much more opportunities (especially 2nd/3rd generations) than they would likely have had if born into the countries their parents/grandparents came from. Many do do well. For those that don't there has to be an element of self-responsibility. You can't just keep blaming everything on us - it's a cop-out.

If you want to keep harping on about skin colour - I would like to know how many white gangs there are in comparison to non-white gangs. I think it is obvious there are a lot less white gangs - so how does that make gangs culturally English. That makes no sense.

Only if you delude yourself into thinking that. There's more people reliant on food banks than ever before, the gap between rich and poor has never been bigger and the economy is in a state where the poor are squeezed for every penny they have while the government are happy enough to keep the loopholes that allow the rich to dodge taxes because the Tories don't want to piss on their own shoes.

If you think everything is fine and dandy with the economy and the social issues it creates then you are willfully ignorant and your second paragraph only proves it to be true. Escaping one's circumstances is not easy for most people and the circumstances that they are born into certainly isn't their fault. The fact that you have a 'them and us' attitude says it all really, you wouldn't be saying this about white British people in the same circumstances.

It's hysterical and quite typical of you to think that there aren't that many white gang members. There are plenty of white gangs, as DR said, hooliganism is still massive and most hooligan gangs are mostly white. From personal experience, the only gang members I've ever known have been white, same with drug dealers. Gang culture isn't about race, it's about social and economic issues. Gangs suddenly didn't spring up overnight because of immigration. You are just looking for reasons to justify your racism.

[Brillopad]

Only if you delude yourself into thinking that. There's more people reliant on food banks than ever before, the gap between rich and poor has never been bigger and the economy is in a state where the poor are squeezed for every penny they have while the government are happy enough to keep the loopholes that allow the rich to dodge taxes because the Tories don't want to piss on their own shoes.

If you think everything is fine and dandy with the economy and the social issues it creates then you are willfully ignorant and your second paragraph only proves it to be true. Escaping one's circumstances is not easy for most people and the circumstances that they are born into certainly isn't their fault. The fact that you have a 'them and us' attitude says it all really, you wouldn't be saying this about white British people in the same circumstances.

It's hysterical and quite typical of you to think that there aren't that many white gang members. There are plenty of white gangs, as DR said, hooliganism is still massive and most hooligan gangs are mostly white. From personal experience, the only gang members I've ever known have been white, same with drug dealers. Gang culture isn't about race, it's about social and economic issues. Gangs suddenly didn't spring up overnight because of immigration. You are just looking for reasons to justify your racism.

I'm clearly not talking about social and economic issues per se but what particular social economic issues 2nd/3rd generation immigrants have over anyone else in Britain. They have the same access to free education as anyone else and therefore have no reason not to develop skills or attain a decent level of education to help improve their chance of getting a job/having a career to help improve their economic position, same as every other working-class child in Britain. More recent migrants get help with free language classes, access to benefits, social housing, healthcare, etc. Britain bends over backwards to help them to help themselves. If they, 2nd/3rd generation immigrants as well as more recent migrants, choose not to make the most of that free education in order to help themselves, the same as the rest of us, then they are responsible for their own situation. What part of that was not clear?

They are still a lot better off here economically than they would have been in the countries they or their parents originally came from, for all the above reasons, but, despite that, many still try to blame Britain for their situation. Britain has given them the same chances as everyone else. There comes a point when people are responsible for their own success - but instead try to blame the country. It's a cop-out.

Did I say gangs sprang up overnight, no. But we have clearly had a bigger problem with gang culture in recent years and most of what we see on the news is related to non-white groups. The recent increase in sex attacks from Asian gangs is a particular worry and demonstrates an unacceptable attitude towards women - there is no denying this has been a big problem all over Europe recently and is directly related to migrants. But of course, due to PC puppets, we can't talk about that so the problem does not get addressed properly. That is racism.

Attempting to give preferential treatment to one group over another by continually making excuses and blaming those that gave them a better chance in the first place also has a part to play in people running out of patience and tolerance.

[Cherie]

Cherie I know you are Irish...there was a chap on the the Joe Duffy show the other day that was walking through Freedom park in Kilkenny...he and his son were savageley beaten by Irish gangs..The numbers of those who want to leave their own countries to get to where we are is staggering...But ...nobody can deny that..Isn't that human nature to leave and hope for a better life for you and your kids.....


I left South Africa as a Boer ...because of what was happening to us whites..
I left with a great education ...thanks to Apartheied

Yeah i get what you are saying, but you immigrated legally, these people are paying traffickers putting their own and their kids life at risk, more often than not they have to be rescued from over crowded ships, then when they land all they have ahead of them is a detention centre in a country that is stretched trying to cope, I blame the traffickers who are selling an idyll that does not exist, controlled immigration is one thing, what the traffickers are doing is heaping misery on misery

As as aside Ireland, for a country that exported people regularly over the years ican be less than welcoming with people coming in

[DemolitionRed]

@ Those from immigrant families have much more opportunities (especially 2nd/3rd generations) than they would likely have had if born into the countries their parents/grandparents came from. Many do do well. For those that don't there has to be an element of self-responsibility. You can't just keep blaming everything on us - it's a cop-out.

If we want to look at why some immigrants blame this country, we need look no further than the Gurkha’s. The 1947 Tripartite Agreement was abused by the Conservative British Governments. Just about every right on that agreement was broken.

When my dad was in the armed forces, we lived in Aldershot for a while. I grew up believing the Gurkha’s were the British Army mercenaries. My dad, up until recently, always believed they got a full army pension after serving their time and that they got the same rates of pay as British soldiers. Unfortunately, the Gurkha’s and senior British Officers were not au fait with this Agreement being so heavily corrupted until fairly recently.

Since the Joanna Lumley campaign Nepalese families moving to the UK has tripled. People in Nepal sold their houses and land to come and live in **** holes like Aldershot only to find that their ex soldier pensions are a mere fraction of what they should be and the cost of living in the UK, when you’re no longer living in an army barracks, is unaffordable for most. Their husbands/fathers/brothers served their time on the front line and even won the Falklands war, were encouraged to sell everything in their homeland and come and live in a land of milk and honey only to discover they’ve been well and truly shafted. Most apparently want to go back to Nepal but they now have nothing to go back to.

I’m sure Lumley had good intensions and she most certainly wasn’t au fait with the scam that had gone on around the government and the Tripartite Agreement. None of this is the Nepalese immigrants fault. All of them have the right to be angry.

[Brillopad]

@ Those from immigrant families have much more opportunities (especially 2nd/3rd generations) than they would likely have had if born into the countries their parents/grandparents came from. Many do do well. For those that don't there has to be an element of self-responsibility. You can't just keep blaming everything on us - it's a cop-out.

If we want to look at why some immigrants blame this country, we need look no further than the Gurkha’s. The 1947 Tripartite Agreement was abused by the Conservative British Governments. Just about every right on that agreement was broken.

When my dad was in the armed forces, we lived in Aldershot for a while. I grew up believing the Gurkha’s were the British Army mercenaries. My dad, up until recently, always believed they got a full army pension after serving their time and that they got the same rates of pay as British soldiers. Unfortunately, the Gurkha’s and senior British Officers were not au fait with this Agreement being so heavily corrupted until fairly recently.

Since the Joanna Lumley campaign Nepalese families moving to the UK has tripled. People in Nepal sold their houses and land to come and live in **** holes like Aldershot only to find that their ex soldier pensions are a mere fraction of what they should be and the cost of living in the UK, when you’re no longer living in an army barracks, is unaffordable for most. Their husbands/fathers/brothers served their time on the front line and even won the Falklands war, were encouraged to sell everything in their homeland and come and live in a land of milk and honey only to discover they’ve been well and truly shafted. Most apparently want to go back to Nepal but they now have nothing to go back to.

I’m sure Lumley had good intensions and she most certainly wasn’t au fait with the scam that had gone on around the government and the Tripartite Agreement. None of this is the Nepalese immigrants fault. All of them have the right to be angry.

That I believe is a different situation entirely. I completely agree they have a right to be angry and have every entitlement to the same pension as British soldiers. They fought for this country and deserve it.

Unfortunately I don't know a lot about it but do remember hearing something about it and felt the same way then as I do know. TBH honest I thought that had been resolved. All brave men and women who fought for this country deserve the same equal pension and recognition for their service to Britain. To discriminate like that is disgusting and unacceptable. I hope someone is fighting their cause.

[lime]

Yeah i get what you are saying, but you immigrated legally, these people are paying traffickers putting their own and their kids life at risk, more often than not they have to be rescued from over crowded ships, then when they land all they have ahead of them is a detention centre in a country that is stretched trying to cope, I blame the traffickers who are selling an idyll that does not exist, controlled immigration is one thing, what the traffickers are doing is heaping misery on misery

As as aside Ireland, for a country that exported people regularly over the years ican be less than welcoming with people coming in
Cherie we came here legally quite simply because we could....contrary to other opinions we never turned up at Dublin port saying give us a job...Bertie & Co turned up in JBourg during Celtic tiger recruiting us
I get what you are saying about migrants putting their kids lives at risk..I think both you and me Cherie left our home countries to make a better life for our families....but let's face it we weren't being bombed arse over tits

[Beso]

'They aren't culturally english! They aren't white!'

TS has hit the nail on the head, gang culture is a social and economic issue rather than a race one.

This..most gang violence is post code related.

[Tom4784]

I'm clearly not talking about social and economic issues per se but what particular social economic issues 2nd/3rd generation immigrants have over anyone else in Britain. They have the same access to free education as anyone else and therefore have no reason not to develop skills or attain a decent level of education to help improve their chance of getting a job/having a career to help improve their economic position, same as every other working-class child in Britain. More recent migrants get help with free language classes, access to benefits, social housing, healthcare, etc. Britain bends over backwards to help them to help themselves. If they, 2nd/3rd generation immigrants as well as more recent migrants, choose not to make the most of that free education in order to help themselves, the same as the rest of us, then they are responsible for their own situation. What part of that was not clear?

They are still a lot better off here economically than they would have been in the countries they or their parents originally came from, for all the above reasons, but, despite that, many still try to blame Britain for their situation. Britain has given them the same chances as everyone else. There comes a point when people are responsible for their own success - but instead try to blame the country. It's a cop-out.

Did I say gangs sprang up overnight, no. But we have clearly had a bigger problem with gang culture in recent years and most of what we see on the news is related to non-white groups. The recent increase in sex attacks from Asian gangs is a particular worry and demonstrates an unacceptable attitude towards women - there is no denying this has been a big problem all over Europe recently and is directly related to migrants. But of course, due to PC puppets, we can't talk about that so the problem does not get addressed properly. That is racism.

Attempting to give preferential treatment to one group over another by continually making excuses and blaming those that gave them a better chance in the first place also has a part to play in people running out of patience and tolerance.

You do know that real life isn't like one of those films where a middle class white teacher changes the lives of a bunch of minority students by teaching them about Shakespeare right? You're also really oversimplifying things in order to bash non-white people.

The government is to blame for a rise in gang activity. When the economy is bad crime rates go up, when it's difficult to make a living honestly crime rates go up. In areas with a lot of gang activity it's difficult not to get caught up and dragged into it. I don't think anyone's 'blaming Britain' the government is to blame and if you can't differentiate between the government and Britain itself then that's another worrying issue in itself.

There's a focus on non-white gangs in the media because it riles up people like you who look for reasons to hate on people who aren't white. It's the same reason why Muslim responses against terrorism never get media attention because the media wants to go with the 'Muslims aren't going enough to prevent terrorism' angle because they want to create hysteria against them. Your prejudices are being used against you to suit the media's agenda. It's also funny that you keep banging on about PC when you are one of the most PC members on here but you don't realise it.

Nobody is attempting to give preferential treatment to a certain race, I'm just asking you to open your eyes and realise that the issue of gangs is not a race based issue but you won't do that since you feel the need to justify your hatred rather than accept the fact that you are quite simply racist. I'm talking about gang culture as a whole, I'm acknowledging all it's aspects but you only want to talk about the parts that don't involve white people because the reality of gang culture doesn't reflect the points you are trying to make.

[Tom4784]

This..most gang violence is post code related.

Yup, Poorer areas are going to be more prone to having gangs regardless of race.

[Brillopad]

You do know that real life isn't like one of those films where a middle class white teacher changes the lives of a bunch of minority students by teaching them about Shakespeare right? You're also really oversimplifying things in order to bash non-white people.

The government is to blame for a rise in gang activity. When the economy is bad crime rates go up, when it's difficult to make a living honestly crime rates go up. In areas with a lot of gang activity it's difficult not to get caught up and dragged into it. I don't think anyone's 'blaming Britain' the government is to blame and if you can't differentiate between the government and Britain itself then that's another worrying issue in itself.

There's a focus on non-white gangs in the media because it riles up people like you who look for reasons to hate on people who aren't white. It's the same reason why Muslim responses against terrorism never get media attention because the media wants to go with the 'Muslims aren't going enough to prevent terrorism' angle because they want to create hysteria against them. Your prejudices are being used against you to suit the media's agenda. It's also funny that you keep banging on about PC when you are one of the most PC members on here but you don't realise it.

Nobody is attempting to give preferential treatment to a certain race, I'm just asking you to open your eyes and realise that the issue of gangs is not a race based issue but you won't do that since you feel the need to justify your hatred rather than accept the fact that you are quite simply racist. I'm talking about gang culture as a whole, I'm acknowledging all it's aspects but you only want to talk about the parts that don't involve white people because the reality of gang culture doesn't reflect the points you are trying to make.

You know something I'm sick of all that racist garbage. I have a lot of respect for many races including the Japanese, Chinese and many others. What I don't like is religious control freaks and cold blooded murders and in my opinion Islam promotes both those things. I cannot respect people who support or ignore that kind of rhetoric. What has that got to do with skin colour - it is you who is being simplistic and believing any criticism of a religion has to be about race as the majority of people who follow Islam are non-white. Get this it isn't about their skin colour it is about their thought processes and their behaviour.

All religions have a history of brutality but I am talking about today, in the modern world and I have no time for those that refuse to move on or hide behind religion as a way of hiding their prejudices. That is not to say everyone else is perfect, we are all far from it - but very few religions today promote such hate, commit such atrocity and openly promote the murder of so many. I cannot respect anyone who can follow such a religion.

As for the gang thing - According to you if you are struggling it is understandable that some may become part of a gang and commit crime. What kind of crime is accepatable to you then - rape and murder. Crime is increasingly becoming more violent and not just gang on gang , but against innocent victims. Being hard up is never any excuse.

And btw if you think me objecting to PC by pulling you up on and complaining about your own un-PC behaviour and obvious hypocrisy is PC rather than tit for tat then you clearly don't have a clue. :wavey:

[Withano]

You know something I'm sick of all that racist garbage. I have a lot of respect for many races including the Japanese, Chinese and many others.

:joker: you're too much.

[Tom4784]

You know something I'm sick of all that racist garbage. I have a lot of respect for many races including the Japanese, Chinese and many others. What I don't like is religious control freaks and cold blooded murders and in my opinion Islam promotes both those things.

You can read into my words whatever you like - most of three time you get it wrong anyway. Have fun - you really are not the good judge of character you think you are. :wavey:

I'll accept your throwing in of the towel.

[jet]

You do know that real life isn't like one of those films where a middle class white teacher changes the lives of a bunch of minority students by teaching them about Shakespeare right? You're also really oversimplifying things in order to bash non-white people.

The government is to blame for a rise in gang activity. When the economy is bad crime rates go up, when it's difficult to make a living honestly crime rates go up. In areas with a lot of gang activity it's difficult not to get caught up and dragged into it. I don't think anyone's 'blaming Britain' the government is to blame and if you can't differentiate between the government and Britain itself then that's another worrying issue in itself.

There's a focus on non-white gangs in the media because it riles up people like you who look for reasons to hate on people who aren't white. It's the same reason why Muslim responses against terrorism never get media attention because the media wants to go with the 'Muslims aren't going enough to prevent terrorism' angle because they want to create hysteria against them. Your prejudices are being used against you to suit the media's agenda. It's also funny that you keep banging on about PC when you are one of the most PC members on here but you don't realise it.

Nobody is attempting to give preferential treatment to a certain race, I'm just asking you to open your eyes and realise that the issue of gangs is not a race based issue but you won't do that since you feel the need to justify your hatred rather than accept the fact that you are quite simply racist. I'm talking about gang culture as a whole, I'm acknowledging all it's aspects but you only want to talk about the parts that don't involve white people because the reality of gang culture doesn't reflect the points you are trying to make.

You talk about media propaganda and distortion of truth.... you have learned well. :laugh:

It suits your agenda, of course, which is anti - government and anti - Brillo. Talk about hysteria! lol

[Brillopad]

I'll accept your throwing in of the towel.

Believe me if anyone on here could cause me to throw in the towel it wouldn't be you. :hee:

[Tom4784]

You talk about media propaganda and distortion of truth.... you have learned well. :laugh:

It suits your agenda, of course, which is anti - government and anti - Brillo.

Not really, I'm not Anti-Government. I just believe that they should be held accountable for their actions. Gang culture is a result of Social issues brought on by economic problems, problems that have been compounded by the current government's arse backwards ideas for the economy. As for your other claim....Anti-Brillo? I wasn't aware she was a political issue.

The fact that you haven't come up with any counterpoints to anything I said only shows that you can't argue against what I've said. You've posted a worthless post to oppose what I've said without actually saying anything of substance. All you've done is read the 'Brillo Playbook of SD tactics' and have opted for the 'I know you are but what am I' defense by trying to twist things on me but failing to do so since you don't understand the context of what's been said. You just oppose it because I said it.

[Tom4784]

Believe if anyone on here could cause me to throw in the towel it wouldn't be you. :hee:

She says as she throws in the towel and gives up on the debate.

[Brillopad]

She says as she throws in the towel and gives up on the debate.

Re-read the post - I have added to it.

[Brillopad]

Not really, I'm not Anti-Government. I just believe that they should be held accountable for their actions. Gang culture is a result of Social issues brought on by economic problems, problems that have been compounded by the current government's arse backwards ideas for the economy. As for your other claim....Anti-Brillo? I wasn't aware she was a political issue.

The fact that you haven't come up with any counterpoints to anything I said only shows that you can't argue against what I've said. You've posted a worthless post to oppose what I've said without actually saying anything of substance. All you've done is read the 'Brillo Playbook of SD tactics' and have opted for the 'I know you are but what am I' defense by trying to twist things on me but failing to do so since you don't understand the context of what's been said. You just oppose it because I said it.

I think Jet has more than proved on many occasions that he can come up with many counterpoints to your rhetoric and therefore has nothing to prove to anyone.

[jet]

Not really, I'm not Anti-Government. I just believe that they should be held accountable for their actions. Gang culture is a result of Social issues brought on by economic problems, problems that have been compounded by the current government's arse backwards ideas for the economy. As for your other claim....Anti-Brillo? I wasn't aware she was a political issue.

The fact that you haven't come up with any counterpoints to anything I said only shows that you can't argue against what I've said. You've posted a worthless post to oppose what I've said without actually saying anything of substance. All you've done is read the 'Brillo Playbook of SD tactics' and have opted for the 'I know you are but what am I' defense by trying to twist things on me but failing to do so since you don't understand the context of what's been said. You just oppose it because I said it.

I did reply to what you said - the Brillo bashing. It distracted enormously from the rest of your post.
You do know that it is not a requirement that people must respond to your every utterance, don't you?

[Tom4784]

You know something I'm sick of all that racist garbage. I have a lot of respect for many races including the Japanese, Chinese and many others. What I don't like is religious control freaks and cold blooded murders and in my opinion Islam promotes both those things. I cannot respect people who support or ignore that kind of rhetoric. What has that got to do with skin colour - it is you who is being simplistic and believing any criticism of a religion has to be about race as the majority of people who follow Islam are non-white. Get this it isn't about their skin colour it is about their thought processes and their behaviour.

All religions have a history of brutality but I am talking about today, in the modern world and I have no time for those that refuse to move on or hide behind religion as a way of hiding their prejudices. That is not to say everyone else is perfect, we are all far from it - but very few religions today promote such hate, commit such atrocity and openly promote the murder of so many. I cannot respect anyone who can follow such a religion.

As for the gang thing - According to you if you are struggling it is understandable that some may become part of a gang and commit crime. What kind of crime is accepatable to you then - rape and murder. Crime is increasingly becoming more violent and not just gang on gang , but against innocent victims. Being hard up is never any excuse.

And btw if you think me objecting to PC by pulling you up on and complaining about your own un-PC behaviour and obvious hypocrisy is PC rather than tit for tat then you clearly don't have a clue. :wavey:

Can you remember this topic?

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321734&highlight=detention

You saw a boy with brown skin and some arabic sounding names and you made a bunch of racist assumptions about them based on that. That's nothing to do with disliking Islam, that's to do with seeing a skin colour and making negative connotations based on that skin colour, hence racism.

That thread is proof that to you, brown skin = Islamic extremist.

When have I ever ignored anything regarding terrorism or extremism? I just always make the point of saying that not all islamic people hold the views of extremists while you are basically all like 'ANYONE WITH BROWN SKIN IS AN ENEMY!' because, again, racism. I'm not excusing or ignoring terrorism, I just have the common sense not to tar an entire group of people with the same brush due to the actions of the extreme minority, especially when the Muslim communities of the world regularly oppose islamic terrorism in all it's forms.

As for the gang thing, I think you are losing the godamn plot and how dare you accuse me of thinking that rape and murder is acceptable because I don't share your racist views. I never said that the issues that result in a rise of gang crime justifies it, I said that it is merely a contributing factor for it's prominence. Read posts before you accuse people of justifying rape and murder because you completely misunderstood what I said and that's on you. Accusing someone of justifying acts like that is beyond vile. I expect an apology for your mistake regarding that comment.

You should rethink your last sentence, it doesn't really make much sense.

[Tom4784]

I did reply to what you said - the Brillo bashing. It distracted enormously from the rest of your post.
You do know that it is not a requirement that people must respond to your every utterance, don't you?

You made a nothing comment on my 'agenda' with nothing to back it up. If you are going to comment on someone's opinion then at least qualify your own thoughts so the post is actually worth reading.

You just posted the equivalent of 'lol you're wrong xx' which is completely worthless since you haven't explained why you think i'm wrong because you can't otherwise you would have done so. You're being dismissive now because you want to save face and won't allow yourself to admit that you've lost.

[jet]

You made a nothing comment on my 'agenda' with nothing to back it up. If you are going to comment on someone's opinion then at least qualify your own thoughts so the post is actually worth reading.

You just posted the equivalent of 'lol you're wrong xx' which is completely worthless since you haven't explained why you think i'm wrong because you can't otherwise you would have done so. You're being dismissive now because you want to save face and won't allow yourself to admit that you've lost.

You can be so childish.

[Tom4784]

You can be so childish.

Now you're being evasive, debates are a contest. You win or you lose.

[Brillopad]

Can you remember this topic?

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321734&highlight=detention

You saw a boy with brown skin and some arabic sounding names and you made a bunch of racist assumptions about them based on that. That's nothing to do with disliking Islam, that's to do with seeing a skin colour and making negative connotations based on that skin colour, hence racism.

That thread is proof that to you, brown skin = Islamic extremist.

When have I ever ignored anything regarding terrorism or extremism? I just always make the point of saying that not all islamic people hold the views of extremists while you are basically all like 'ANYONE WITH BROWN SKIN IS AN ENEMY!' because, again, racism. I'm not excusing or ignoring terrorism, I just have the common sense not to tar an entire group of people with the same brush due to the actions of the extreme minority, especially when the Muslim communities of the world regularly oppose islamic terrorism in all it's forms.

As for the gang thing, I think you are losing the godamn plot and how dare you accuse me of thinking that rape and murder is acceptable because I don't share your racist views. I never said that the issues that result in a rise of gang crime justifies it, I said that it is merely a contributing factor for it's prominence. Read posts before you accuse people of justifying rape and murder because you completely misunderstood what I said and that's on you. Accusing someone of justifying acts like that is beyond vile. I expect an apology for your mistake regarding that comment.

You should rethink your last sentence, it doesn't really make much sense.


I asked you what crime was accepatable to you and listed rape and murder - because they are the crimes that are increasing and often gang related. You had previously attempted to blame poverty in Britain as a reason for gang crime, thereby excusing and implying poverty, remember we are not living in a third world country, is an understandable reason to commit violent crime. It is not.

As I said in a previous post all young people in Britain have access to good quality education - if they don't value that and don't want to help themselves through education that is on them. If they choose crime and violence - they are accountable for that.

I certainly don't owe you an apology. If anyone owes anyone an apology it is you with all your Racist jibes. You hide behind PC in my opinion in order to justify insulting those whose opinions you disagree with. :nono:

[Vicky.]

I am closing this thread as even to start with it had racist undertones, but as it has gone on the racism has became more and more blatant and its simply not acceptable.