Should I tell?

[Amy Jade]

Basically a woman I work with has been off for about 2 months with agoraphobia, loads of people in work have had to change their rota to accomidate her one of the other ladies was saying the other day her husband is going mad as she is having to cover the other womans shifts and yesterday I went to the cinema and she was there with 4 kids. She didn't see me but she looked perfectly comfortable in there and it was pretty busy and surely somebody with agoraphobia would freak out in such a small busy dark room?

Baring in mind she apparently cant come back to work because she claims to suffer panic attacks when its too busy.

Should I mention I saw her or just leave it alone?

[Niamh.]

hhhmm tough one really, If i was pretty sure she was taking the piss and all of you were suffering because of it, i probably would though

[Crimson Dynamo]

anonymous letter on desk of boss

[Cal.]

Yeah I wouldn't be having that.

If it wasn't affecting you I wouldn't say anything but it does so you should.

[Withano]

Might be worth a mention so they can investigate it if they want to.. but as I understand it, not all agoraphobics are housebound for life. They can, and do leave the house sometimes, its usually anxiety about specific places (usually supermarkets, or somewhere escape isnt easy, could you leave your place of work within like 1 minute at every given place if you needed to?). There might be something about the cinema, or about being surrounded by her children that she finds comforting.

[Jordan.]

Seeing her out the house once doesn't mean she's faking it, could just be a step she's taking to help overcome her issue.

[Cherie]

Yes you should, that said she might be better in some places other than others, like in a darkened cinema

[Amy Jade]

hhhmm tough one really, If i was pretty sure she was taking the piss and all of you were suffering because of it, i probably would though

I can't be 100% sure but if she has such bad agoraphobia that she cant come to work as she panics how is she able to take 4 kids and herself in a busy cinema?

[Crimson Dynamo]

if i was the boss I would have her watched with a camera for the next week

agoraphobia my arse

[thesheriff443]

anonymous letter on desk of boss

To stab someone in the back, you have to be right behind them!.

[Niamh.]

I can't be 100% sure but if she has such bad agoraphobia that she cant come to work as she panics how is she able to take 4 kids and herself in a busy cinema?

You could never be fully sure of course, that's the thing with mental health issues like this, very hard to prove or disprove and you'll have people fake and take the piss, would make you feel sorry for genuine cases

[Amy Jade]

Seeing her out the house once doesn't mean she's faking it, could just be a step she's taking to help overcome her issue.

I thought of this but she literally comes to work for meetings with occupational health and sits upstairs saying even going in the room to have the meeting makes her anxious...but a crowded cinema doesnt?

[Crimson Dynamo]

dob her in. If she has a legit reason then let her say it, you are doing all your co-workers a service here

[Amy Jade]

You could never be fully sure of course, that's the thing with mental health issues like this, very hard to prove or disprove and you'll have people fake and take the piss, would make you feel sorry for genuine cases

That is why I am so unsure, if it was a random day off I wouldn't say a word I don't care but this is an ongoing thing and if she genuine I would feel so bad mentioning it :worry:

[jennyjuniper]

I would mention it to your boss. If she really has agrophobia, she must have paperwork from a doctor to support it? If it weren't affecting everyone else at work it wouldn't be so much of a problem, but I still hate the thought of someone cheating anyway.

[Crimson Dynamo]

What is agoraphobia?

Many people think that agoraphobia means a fear of public places and open spaces. However, this is just part of it. If you have agoraphobia you tend to have a number of fears of various places and situations. So, for example, you may have a fear of:

Entering shops, crowds and public places.
Travelling in trains, buses, or planes.
Being on a bridge.
Being in a lift.
Being in a cinema, restaurant, etc, where there is no easy exit.
Being anywhere far from your home.

https://patient.info/health/agoraphobia-leaflet

:suspect:

[Ammi]

....hmmm, if she's still coming to work for meetings and having to be accompanied..?..then it's sounding more like it could be specific stress/panic related to work and anxieties/stress there but possibly only in her job or mainly in her job...?...she may be ok with other situations which don't cause her anxiety due to stress etc...I don't know obviously but a general 'agoraphobia' may also be something that HR have said as way of explanation but it may be that her issues are specific but it's not something that either she or her employers want to be generally known by other employees....sad for her anyway, work anxieties are awful...I've known quite a few people who have been unable to work because of them....

[Kazanne]

What is agoraphobia?

Many people think that agoraphobia means a fear of public places and open spaces. However, this is just part of it. If you have agoraphobia you tend to have a number of fears of various places and situations. So, for example, you may have a fear of:

Entering shops, crowds and public places.
Travelling in trains, buses, or planes.
Being on a bridge.
Being in a lift.
Being in a cinema, restaurant, etc, where there is no easy exit.
Being anywhere far from your home.

https://patient.info/health/agoraphobia-leaflet

:suspect:

Are you agoraphobic LT ?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Are you agoraphobic LT ?

I am not

[smudgie]

Maybe having her children with her is a comfort and enables her to go out.
You can have good days and bad days as well.
Some people just can't face the world on their own and need accompanying.

[Northern Monkey]

The only cure for anxiety related mental illness is to go out and do the thing(s) that you are frightened of.Even with medication and counselling it all boils down to facing your fears and doing it over and over again until it's not a fear anymore.
It could be part of her recovery...

She could just be taking the piss though.

[Crimson Dynamo]

surely the first place she should be going out to as a trial is her fecking work and not the cinema?

[Braden]

It's definitely strange that she's took so much time off, yet can feel the need to go to a cinema with four kids.

On the other hand, agoraphobia =\= claustrophobia, so she could have been perfectly fine where she was but still have been unhealthy to work. idk, it's tricky, do you want to find yourself caught up in the situation?

[Vicky.]

I do not see what you have to gain from this tbh?

I wouldn't get myself involved. Mental illnesses are very tricky subjects and whilst her doctor is willing to provide sicknotes from her, no amount of people telling the bosses stuff like this will make any difference.

[Tom4784]

If she's got the documentation to back it up then one out of context sighting of of her at a cinema doesn't mean much. Mental Illness is a constant battle, you have good days and bad days. It's very likely you saw her on a good day.

I personally wouldn't get involved, you could end up doing some real damage to this woman when you don't fully understand the situation and it will likely look bad on you if you try to push the issue.

[Crimson Dynamo]

get the boss told and if she is innocent no harm done

if she aint then you have this disgusting wastrel bang to rights

its a win win and you will look good to your boss either way

[Amy Jade]

I do not see what you have to gain from this tbh?

I wouldn't get myself involved. Mental illnesses are very tricky subjects and whilst her doctor is willing to provide sicknotes from her, no amount of people telling the bosses stuff like this will make any difference.

They won't hire somebody else as she is still technically employed so a lot of us are covering hours she should be doing. I've been put on a late rota for the next two fridays to cover her hours.

I just think if she is able to go to the busy cinema she could at least try to do a short shift in work. Even if she did a few hours it would mean somebody else got home earlier.

[Amy Jade]

get the boss told and if she is innocent no harm done

if she aint then you have this disgusting wastrel bang to rights

its a win win and you will look good to your boss either way

I honestly don't care about looking good, just don't think the rest of the staff should have to work longer (yes it is a choice but if i let them down it would work against me) to cover somebody who doesn't seem all that willing to even try to come back

[Crimson Dynamo]

there will be no come back on you if you mention it. just a quiet word to the boss (but zero info to any other staff member)

[Daniel-X]

I'd leave it if I was with you, if you see her in public again though then tell your boss

[Novo]

Not worth mentioning it at all, not like you seen her do cart wheels at flip out

[Toy Soldier]

If the company you work for can't staff adequately to cover sickness without forcing overtime / awkward shift patterns on the rest of the staff then that is a problem with the company and not the member of staff who is sick. Never forget that. Companies love to pass the buck and blame members of staff for anything they can blame them for. Don't let them.

If you and your colleagues job is more difficult because of a staff member who is absent, then the blame lies with the staffing, not the employee. How do they cover holidays? How would they cover maternity? They shouldn't be running a barebones staff.

[Niamh.]

If the company you work for can't staff adequately to cover sickness without forcing overtime / awkward shift patterns on the rest of the staff then that is a problem with the company and not the member of staff who is sick. Never forget that. Companies love to pass the buck and blame members of staff for anything they can blame them for. Don't let them.

If you and your colleagues job is more difficult because of a staff member who is absent, then the blame lies with the staffing, not the employee. How do they cover holidays? How would they cover maternity? They shouldn't be running a barebones staff.

It's all well and good to say that if it's a large company but things like this can be a nightmare for smaller businesses

[Toy Soldier]

It's all well and good to say that if it's a large company but things like this can be a nightmare for smaller businessesI 100% believe that a business of any size that can't cover sickness, holidays and maternity has over-stretched itself in terms of staffing requirements vs profits. Being one member of staff down should always be well within staffing margins...

If multiple people are unexpectedly off sick - or if several staff members resign at the same time - then of course there are likely to be problems but any business that can only function normally at 100% staffing with zero margin is simply in the wrong, IMO. The logic that all staff should be available at all times is exactly what allows smaller businesses to discriminate against "women of child bearing age" because of the "risk" of pregnancy / maternity. No one should have to feel guilty about taking time off work for health reasons (physical or mental).

[RichardG]

people with arthritis will have some days here and there where they can go out and enjoy themselves without experiencing as much pain. someone with a lung disease will have days where their breathing feels improved. mental illness is no different than physical illness, don't get yourself involved in something you know nothing about.

[Niamh.]

I 100% believe that a business of any size that can't cover sickness, holidays and maternity has over-stretched itself in terms of staffing requirements vs profits. Being one member of staff down should always be well within staffing margins...

If multiple people are unexpectedly off sick - or if several staff members resign at the same time - then of course there are likely to be problems but any business that can only function normally at 100% staffing with zero margin is simply in the wrong, IMO. The logic that all staff should be available at all times is exactly what allows smaller businesses to discriminate against "women of child bearing age" because of the "risk" of pregnancy / maternity. No one should have to feel guilty about taking time off work for health reasons (physical or mental).

Yes as long as it's genuine not people taking the piss. I work in a small company and we've had to cope with maternity leave and people being sick and we do but it's harder than how a large company would cope. That's just life, the smaller guys have to struggle a bit more with things like this. Are you saying we just shouldn't be open if we don't have as much cash as larger businesses do?

[Amy Jade]

I have decided not to say anything. If I see her again though I will say hi so she knows I saw her.

[Cherie]

I 100% believe that a business of any size that can't cover sickness, holidays and maternity has over-stretched itself in terms of staffing requirements vs profits. Being one member of staff down should always be well within staffing margins...

If multiple people are unexpectedly off sick - or if several staff members resign at the same time - then of course there are likely to be problems but any business that can only function normally at 100% staffing with zero margin is simply in the wrong, IMO. The logic that all staff should be available at all times is exactly what allows smaller businesses to discriminate against "women of child bearing age" because of the "risk" of pregnancy / maternity. No one should have to feel guilty about taking time off work for health reasons (physical or mental).

No one should feel guilty if they are genuinely off, I've worked with plenty people who take the piss though and they should feel guilty for that especially if it means others have to take on extra hours, it's all well and good in an ideal world

[Vicky.]

They won't hire somebody else as she is still technically employed so a lot of us are covering hours she should be doing. I've been put on a late rota for the next two fridays to cover her hours.

I just think if she is able to go to the busy cinema she could at least try to do a short shift in work. Even if she did a few hours it would mean somebody else got home earlier.

Is noone happy for the extra hours? I find that really weird...especially with how the jobs market is at the moment :laugh:

I don't think your employers can legally MAKE you cover someones sick days and if its a long term sick thing they should be getting in proper cover. But I find it really really weird how it seems to be annoying everyone to get extra hours..

[Toy Soldier]

Yes as long as it's genuine not people taking the piss. I work in a small company and we've had to cope with maternity leave and people being sick and we do but it's harder than how a large company would cope. That's just life, the smaller guys have to struggle a bit more with things like this. Are you saying we just shouldn't be open if we don't have as much cash as larger businesses do?I think the risk is that mental health issues, as demonstrated by a few in this thread really, are much more likely to be deemed "taking the piss" by people who simply don't understand those issues and it can breed real resentment and bad blood between colleagues if staffing becomes an issue and others feel put out. In small, tight knit businesses that's less of an issue because co-workers tend to know each other a little better and therefore have more empathy. It ends up being a double whammy of a problem because - far from the suggestion that "she should be reported and if she's not in the wrong then no harm done" - when it's a mental health issue there can actually be a LOT of "harm done".

Its not really an issue of how much cash "full stop" a business has; its about how much cash vs how many employees. I do genuinely believe that any business, of any size, that can't go a staff member down without it causing issues / resentment amongst other staff, then that business has a problem that it needs to address. Just having fingers crossed that no one will need to take time off isn't enough.

[Jake.]

My aunt has agoraphobia and yeah you can't judge it on one experience. That might have been a really good day whereas the next could have been hell

[Toy Soldier]

No one should feel guilty if they are genuinely off, I've worked with plenty people who take the piss though and they should feel guilty for that especially if it means others have to take on extra hours, it's all well and good in an ideal worldOf course there are people who take the piss, but it's a dangerous assumption to make. I worked with a girl who became mockingly known as "absent a________" (her name began with an A) because of absences, everyone was sure she was just taking the piss / taking advantage, and it later turned out that she had been suffering some pretty horrendous domestic abuse and that was the reason for frequent absence.

And like I said... "invisible illness" such as mental illness is by far the most likely to be incorrectly branded "a piss take" whilst simultaneously being the MOST likely to be aggravated by pressure from colleagues and peers.

For example in this case; as people have stated, the way to recover from anxiety related illness is to take small steps to live normally. So if she was reported and got hassle from work, then what? She starts to worry that if she goes out and takes these small steps, she might be seen and reported. So she doesn't risk it, stays home, and her condition continues to worsen. These are the effects that people don't think of and these are the reason why - frankly - people should stay out of things they potentially don't understand. The issue is between employee, employer, and if necessary, employee's doctor. Other staff members shouldn't be part of the equation and, again in my opinion, for that reason employers need to do their very best to ensure that their business can function a staff member down without severely inconveniencing other staff.

[Toy Soldier]

Is noone happy for the extra hours? I find that really weird...especially with how the jobs market is at the moment [emoji23]

I don't think your employers can legally MAKE you cover someones sick days and if its a long term sick thing they should be getting in proper cover. But I find it really really weird how it seems to be annoying everyone to get extra hours..

Oh the best ones are the staff members who will SNAP up any overtime going when it's mentioned... Then complain to anyone listening about how many hours they've "had to" work... Before finally gloating / celebrating their chunk of OT pay at the end of the month :joker:.

I've also had a staff member who begged to work full days every Sunday for childcare reasons... And then a few months later started complaining about never having a Sunday off :think:.

[Ammi]

....hmmm, I honestly don't think that it can be generalised as some kind of bad management though just because other staff are asked to work extra hours to cover, I mean that is quite normal when a member of staff is away...and a situation like Amy has described is very difficult for an employer because the length of time her colleague could be away is so undetermined...I mean, I haven't been at work for months../well lots of months and my not being there has had an affect on other colleagues as well as a very negative affect on children I work with...is that the fault of my employers, is that their bad management skills..?...well no, it isn't..it's one of those things that just has to be dealt with as best as it can be when it actually happens and can't be prepared for....but with a physical illness for instance like with me, then there is an idea of the length of time that is likely to be needed for cover and I think that's the thing and the difference...say a surgery for instance, another physical thing...there is a rough idea when that employee would be back at work...but with an anxiety disorder like agoraphobia, well it's completely undetermined so that's the problem for the employer really and how could it not be a bit of a problem for an employer when they just don't know how long they're going to have to cover for...

..and no, not everyone does understand anxiety disorders...but how could they..it isn't a fault with someone if they don't and especially if they do see that person in other situations outside of work and 'seeming fine'...again, it can be hard to understand if it's something you've had no experience of...(and also not something an employer always wants to explain in much detail to other employees..)...so yes, it can lead to misunderstandings and lack of understanding as well../just a really difficult situation for all...

...anyway Amy, I think you're doing the right thing..:hug:.. and if you see her again...just say hey etc....

[Amy Jade]

Is noone happy for the extra hours? I find that really weird...especially with how the jobs market is at the moment :laugh:

I don't think your employers can legally MAKE you cover someones sick days and if its a long term sick thing they should be getting in proper cover. But I find it really really weird how it seems to be annoying everyone to get extra hours..
Some are but others are feeling a bit put upon. I feel a bit awkward because I am on a different contract to some people and I am not on a flexi rota but others are so if I say no one of them are forced to and I feel bad :worry:

It's mostly annoying because its later night shifts when all the drunk/half cut customers are in and you have to cash up the lottery. Also her being off means only one person is in the desk she works on to serve cigarettes and lottery

[Amy Jade]

....hmmm, I honestly don't think that it can be generalised as some kind of bad management though just because other staff are asked to work extra hours to cover, I mean that is quite normal when a member of staff is away...and a situation like Amy has described is very difficult for an employer because the length of time her colleague could be away is so undetermined...I mean, I haven't been at work for months../well lots of months and my not being there has had an affect on other colleagues as well as a very negative affect on children I work with...is that the fault of my employers, is that their bad management skills..?...well no, it isn't..it's one of those things that just has to be dealt with as best as it can be when it actually happens and can't be prepared for....but with a physical illness for instance like with me, then there is an idea of the length of time that is likely to be needed for cover and I think that's the thing and the difference...say a surgery for instance, another physical thing...there is a rough idea when that employee would be back at work...but with an anxiety disorder like agoraphobia, well it's completely undetermined so that's the problem for the employer really and how could it not be a bit of a problem for an employer when they just don't know how long they're going to have to cover for...

..and no, not everyone does understand anxiety disorders...but how could they..it isn't a fault with someone if they don't and especially if they do see that person in other situations outside of work and 'seeming fine'...again, it can be hard to understand if it's something you've had no experience of...(and also not something an employer always wants to explain in much detail to other employees..)...so yes, it can lead to misunderstandings and lack of understanding as well../just a really difficult situation for all...

...anyway Amy, I think you're doing the right thing..:hug:.. and if you see her again...just say hey etc....

Thank you Ammi, I don't want to be sneaky just want to see how she reacts to seeing me :hehe:

[Northern Monkey]

I think TS is bang on the money.Alot companies including massive ones are doing this.They're running on the minimum staff possible for profit and making the employees jobs alot harder than they should be.The reason staff get pissed off when someone is off and turning on each other is because morale is so low to begin with in many of these companies.The managers are under the most pressure having to try and deal with it.I have seen this happening.
Also if this person genuinely has anxiety issues then finding out they've been reported will 100% make them worse.Agoraphobia is usually one symptom of a generalised anxiety disorder and adding more worries will only worsen the problem and prolong the absence.