The alt-left is real and is helping fascists.

[Brillopad]

https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/comment/2017/8/25/the-alt-left-is-real-and-its-helping-fascists

Interesting piece from The New Arab undermines the words of those denying the existence of the Alt-left and their motivations. Opinions?

[Withano]

Far from fighting fascists in the streets, the alt-left snipe at antifascists from their social media parapets

I think these PC righties need to respect freedom of speech a bit more. Why do they whine about it so often? I thought it was a super common thing in America.

Also I'm not sure if the journalist has confused the alt-left with the right?... if antifacists are lefties, why did they assume it was the alt-left against the left? No evidence, just a frayed string of logic.

Anyway, regarding Charlottesville, anybody claiming a group of online warriors are the problem needs a good hard think about how much of a dickhead they are.

[MB.]

Again, there isn't an "alt-left" and there never will be

[Brillopad]

Again, there isn't an "alt-left" and there never will be

Denying it doesn't change it.

[MB.]

Denying it doesn't change it.

You do realise that "alt-right" is the collective name that white supremacists and neo-Nazis gave themselves so they wouldn't be called white supremacists and neo-Nazis, yes?

[Liberty4eva]

You do realise that "alt-right" is the collective name that white supremacists and neo-Nazis gave themselves so they wouldn't be called white supremacists and neo-Nazis, yes?

I believe Hillary coined the term and many of them adopted the term.

[Brillopad]

You do realise that "alt-right" is the collective name that white supremacists and neo-Nazis gave themselves so they wouldn't be called white supremacists and neo-Nazis, yes?

I think the article is basically saying that elements of the hard left may refuse to see/describe themselves as alt-left (and all that implies) but their words and particularly their actions say differently. At the end of the day actions do indeed speak louder than words.

[Northern Monkey]

I might be misunderstanding it but to me it seems to be suggesting a section of the left who were anti hilary and are anti hard left like antifa/blm etc.
So,really just the more moderate left.It describes them as 'Trump enablers' and a break off of 'anyone but Hilary' Bernie supporters.So to me this article is coming from a more left wing perspective and is attacking another section of the left who are not so left.

[Withano]

I believe Hillary coined the term and many of them adopted the term.

:joker: I believe that you believe that

[Smithy]

I believe Hillary coined the term and many of them adopted the term.

Can you post proof of this please I'd be quite interested to read it :)

[Kizzy]

There is no 'alt left' and an Arab opinion piece in a pamphlet is not proof there is.

[Brillopad]

There is no 'alt left' and an Arab opinion piece in a pamphlet is not proof there is.

Neither are the denials of the left-wing that it does not. If people describe the extreme who act in a certain way on one side of the political spectrum as 'alt' common sense dictates that the extreme on the other side who act the same way are also 'alt'.

[Kizzy]

Neither are the denials of the left-wing that it does not. If people describe the extreme who act in a certain way on one side of the political spectrum as 'alt' common sense dictates that the extreme on the other side who act the same way are also 'alt'.

So you are excusing the ills of the self proclaimed 'alt right' because someone took it upon themselves to coin an incident involving anti fascist protesters as 'alt left'?

That involves no common sense whatsoever.

[Brillopad]

So you are excusing the ills of the self proclaimed 'alt right' because someone took it upon themselves to coin an incident involving anti fascist protesters as 'alt left'?

That involves no common sense whatsoever.

I excuse neither side. Fascism is fascism.

[DemolitionRed]

The problem for me is, this blog comes from Saudi Wahhabist news and Saudi Wahhabism is the very core of Islamic terrorism. They, like any fascist government, will take the side that's convenient for them.

[Kizzy]

I excuse neither side. Fascism is fascism.

For someone so usually anti Muslim when it suits your anti left agenda anything goes it seems?

[Tom4784]

The 'Alt Left' is just a fictitious entity dreamed up in response to the Charlottesville violence by right ringers that don't want to condemn Nazis and are instead defending them by dreaming up the Alt Left to try to divert attention away from the real issue.

It's all bull**** that lots of people will eat up because those are the kinds of people that will ignore reality if it's telling them something they don't want to hear. It's sad that so many people live in a complete and utter fantasy world.

[Brillopad]

For someone so usually anti Muslim when it suits your anti left agenda anything goes it seems?

http://www.debate.org/opinions/is-fascism-left-wing-yes-or-right-wing-no

[Kizzy]

The 'alt left' phraseology leveled at anti fascist protesters has been in use for how long? and yet it already eclipses all the generations of white supremacist, fascist, extreme right, nazi sympathiser and holocaust deniers that encompass those who are proud to be known as the 'alt right'.

My advise? Get some perspective!

[Brillopad]

The 'alt left' phraseology leveled at anti fascist protesters has been in use for how long? and yet it already eclipses all the generations of white supremacist, fascist, extreme right, nazi sympathiser and holocaust deniers that encompass those who are proud to be known as the 'alt right'.

My advise? Get some perspective!

Ditto.

[lewis111]

This is getting pathetic
It's just seems like - **** alt-right Trump supporters are saying they want to kill all Black people and literally killing people who disagree with them - HOW can we make the left look bad at this current time? Let's just throw around loads of biased articles

[Crimson Dynamo]

The extreme right adopted alt-right and the extreme left had the rug pulled from under them and cant really gather under alt-left (or admit to) as it would be perceived as handing the win to the alt-right

and lets face it antifa is a rubbish name it sounds like an insecticide

I guess the extreme, violent and bigoted left will need to get their thinking caps on and come up with a catchy name?

:shrug:

[Kizzy]

Ditto.

Educate yourself.


Nazi' is the short name. The full name for the 'Nazi' party was the "National Socialist German Workers' Party" ("Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" in German).

The fact that the far-right party contained 'socialist' in the name was a rebranding gambit to draw workers away from communism and into populist nationalism.

Despite this, the populist nationalists that support the likes of Donald Trump, regualarly take the oportunity to remind modern day liberal or left-leaning critics of white-supremacists and neo-nazis that 'Socialism' was included in the Nazi party name.

Hitler's party positioned as a left-wing organisation based on his rhetoric, rather than his actions, espoused in the 1920s and 1930s to disenfranchised workers frustrated with what they perceived as a two-tier society.

Neither left or right wing want to be known as the side of the political spectrum that Hitler was on, and both sides would argue he was on the other, politically speaking.

Here is the short version...

Nazis called themselves the 'National Socialists', and they even nicked some (incredibly benign) socialist policies. It is, however, a total misnomer, it's like the World Series, or Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or 'ethics in gaming journalism'.
The Nazis were fascists. Indisputably. They drew their ideology from Italy's fascists, who arose in reaction to the Left. The Italian Right still mired in 19th century thought, could not tackle the explosion in left-wing organization

Mussolini gives us the first fascist platform - national/racial superiority, rearmament & expansion, and consolidation of capital. The Italian Fascists appropriated, wholesale, Roman imagery, such as the 'fasces', to evoke renewed national pride & a sense of superiority.
The Italian Fascists sought to expand & reclaim historically Italian lands (mirroring a large portion of the old Roman Empire).

After nicking some socialist economic policies (public works & spending), fascist government formed corporate cartels, enriching the few.
Hitler & his Deutcher Arbeiter Partei mates see this and decide that they need to steal support from actual socialists, so the DAP rebadge themselves as the NSDAP... Socialism still being a relatively new ideology. It's like adding 'e-' to a product name.
Otherwise, they were fascist - 1. Saw themselves as racially/nationally superior, 2. Wanted rearmament & expansion, 3. Consolidated capital.

Do I really need to go into their views on race & their feelings towards the Jews?
Do I really need to go into their designs on a 'Greater German Reich'?
The Germans used socialist economic policies, before retreating to a corporate cartel base. Companies like Krupp made $$$.

The actual socialists who emerged after Marx wanted three things - 1. Removal of classes. 2. World socialism. 3. Distribution of capital.

So, you see, @stillgray there's a big ****ing difference between fascism and socialism, in that they're COMPLETE ****ING OPPOSITES.

So, if you're peddling this 'munuhmunuh NAZIS ARE SOCIALISTS' bull**** you're either massively dense or an evil prick.


This is a condensed version of the twitter exchange for you from Mike Suchberry History tutor and author.

https://www.indy100.com/article/nazi-socialist-right-wing-white-supremacists-history-twitter-mikestuchbery-7900001

[Beso]

So where do the anti jewish labour party sit...left..right..alt...middle?

[Crimson Dynamo]

welcome back parmy

:wavey:

[Brillopad]

Educate yourself.


Nazi' is the short name. The full name for the 'Nazi' party was the "National Socialist German Workers' Party" ("Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" in German).

The fact that the far-right party contained 'socialist' in the name was a rebranding gambit to draw workers away from communism and into populist nationalism.

Despite this, the populist nationalists that support the likes of Donald Trump, regualarly take the oportunity to remind modern day liberal or left-leaning critics of white-supremacists and neo-nazis that 'Socialism' was included in the Nazi party name.

Hitler's party positioned as a left-wing organisation based on his rhetoric, rather than his actions, espoused in the 1920s and 1930s to disenfranchised workers frustrated with what they perceived as a two-tier society.

Neither left or right wing want to be known as the side of the political spectrum that Hitler was on, and both sides would argue he was on the other, politically speaking.

Here is the short version...

Nazis called themselves the 'National Socialists', and they even nicked some (incredibly benign) socialist policies. It is, however, a total misnomer, it's like the World Series, or Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or 'ethics in gaming journalism'.
The Nazis were fascists. Indisputably. They drew their ideology from Italy's fascists, who arose in reaction to the Left. The Italian Right still mired in 19th century thought, could not tackle the explosion in left-wing organization

Mussolini gives us the first fascist platform - national/racial superiority, rearmament & expansion, and consolidation of capital. The Italian Fascists appropriated, wholesale, Roman imagery, such as the 'fasces', to evoke renewed national pride & a sense of superiority.
The Italian Fascists sought to expand & reclaim historically Italian lands (mirroring a large portion of the old Roman Empire).

After nicking some socialist economic policies (public works & spending), fascist government formed corporate cartels, enriching the few.
Hitler & his Deutcher Arbeiter Partei mates see this and decide that they need to steal support from actual socialists, so the DAP rebadge themselves as the NSDAP... Socialism still being a relatively new ideology. It's like adding 'e-' to a product name.
Otherwise, they were fascist - 1. Saw themselves as racially/nationally superior, 2. Wanted rearmament & expansion, 3. Consolidated capital.

Do I really need to go into their views on race & their feelings towards the Jews?
Do I really need to go into their designs on a 'Greater German Reich'?
The Germans used socialist economic policies, before retreating to a corporate cartel base. Companies like Krupp made $$$.

The actual socialists who emerged after Marx wanted three things - 1. Removal of classes. 2. World socialism. 3. Distribution of capital.

So, you see, @stillgray there's a big ****ing difference between fascism and socialism, in that they're COMPLETE ****ING OPPOSITES.

So, if you're peddling this 'munuhmunuh NAZIS ARE SOCIALISTS' bull**** you're either massively dense or an evil prick.


This is a condensed version of the twitter exchange for you from Mike Suchberry History tutor and author.

https://www.indy100.com/article/nazi-socialist-right-wing-white-supremacists-history-twitter-mikestuchbery-7900001

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fascism

Your views, and PC views in general, are a perfect example of a no free-thinking state where everyone must be forced to conform to a state (socialism) definition of idealism. Fascism is a term that can apply to either side depending on perspective and behaviour. If people behave like fascists, that's exactly what they are.

[Brillopad]

Educate yourself.


Nazi' is the short name. The full name for the 'Nazi' party was the "National Socialist German Workers' Party" ("Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei" in German).

The fact that the far-right party contained 'socialist' in the name was a rebranding gambit to draw workers away from communism and into populist nationalism.

Despite this, the populist nationalists that support the likes of Donald Trump, regualarly take the oportunity to remind modern day liberal or left-leaning critics of white-supremacists and neo-nazis that 'Socialism' was included in the Nazi party name.

Hitler's party positioned as a left-wing organisation based on his rhetoric, rather than his actions, espoused in the 1920s and 1930s to disenfranchised workers frustrated with what they perceived as a two-tier society.

Neither left or right wing want to be known as the side of the political spectrum that Hitler was on, and both sides would argue he was on the other, politically speaking.

Here is the short version...

Nazis called themselves the 'National Socialists', and they even nicked some (incredibly benign) socialist policies. It is, however, a total misnomer, it's like the World Series, or Democratic People's Republic of Korea, or 'ethics in gaming journalism'.
The Nazis were fascists. Indisputably. They drew their ideology from Italy's fascists, who arose in reaction to the Left. The Italian Right still mired in 19th century thought, could not tackle the explosion in left-wing organization

Mussolini gives us the first fascist platform - national/racial superiority, rearmament & expansion, and consolidation of capital. The Italian Fascists appropriated, wholesale, Roman imagery, such as the 'fasces', to evoke renewed national pride & a sense of superiority.
The Italian Fascists sought to expand & reclaim historically Italian lands (mirroring a large portion of the old Roman Empire).

After nicking some socialist economic policies (public works & spending), fascist government formed corporate cartels, enriching the few.
Hitler & his Deutcher Arbeiter Partei mates see this and decide that they need to steal support from actual socialists, so the DAP rebadge themselves as the NSDAP... Socialism still being a relatively new ideology. It's like adding 'e-' to a product name.
Otherwise, they were fascist - 1. Saw themselves as racially/nationally superior, 2. Wanted rearmament & expansion, 3. Consolidated capital.

Do I really need to go into their views on race & their feelings towards the Jews?
Do I really need to go into their designs on a 'Greater German Reich'?
The Germans used socialist economic policies, before retreating to a corporate cartel base. Companies like Krupp made $$$.

The actual socialists who emerged after Marx wanted three things - 1. Removal of classes. 2. World socialism. 3. Distribution of capital.

So, you see, @stillgray there's a big ****ing difference between fascism and socialism, in that they're COMPLETE ****ING OPPOSITES.

So, if you're peddling this 'munuhmunuh NAZIS ARE SOCIALISTS' bull**** you're either massively dense or an evil prick.


This is a condensed version of the twitter exchange for you from Mike Suchberry History tutor and author.

https://www.indy100.com/article/nazi-socialist-right-wing-white-supremacists-history-twitter-mikestuchbery-7900001

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fascism

[Withano]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fascism

Your views, and PC views in general, are a perfect example of a no free-thinking state where everyone must be forced to conform to a state (socialism) definition of idealism. Fascism is a term that can apply to either side depending on perspective and behaviour. If people behave like fascists, that's exactly what they are.

Did you actually non-ironically use urban dictionary as a source though :joker:

[Crimson Dynamo]

You could never brand the Nazis (the real ones not the insult name) as left wing/socialist

[Kizzy]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=fascism

Your views, and PC views in general, are a perfect example of a no free-thinking state where everyone must be forced to conform to a state (socialism) definition of idealism. Fascism is a term that can apply to either side depending on perspective and behaviour. If people behave like fascists, that's exactly what they are.

Aaaand I'm done, the fascistic anti intellectual trend of rebuking any factual context for folklore is exampled here.

Kizz out.

[Brillopad]

Aaaand I'm done, the fascistic anti intellectual trend of rebuking any factual context for folklore is exampled here.

Kizz out.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/8316271.stm

There is much that demonstrates that there is no easy answer to the question 'what is a fascist'. Your black and white definition is very convenient. We all know the history of the word but how we apply it today is more complicated. Like many I most certainly support the common sense belief that 'if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it's a duck'.

[DemolitionRed]

So where do the anti jewish labour party sit...left..right..alt...middle?

The Alt-right spews hatred of the Jews. The left, hatred of Israel. There's a difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism... look it up.

[lime]

The Alt-right spews hatred of the Jews. The left, hatred of Israel. There's a difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism... look it up.

Agree 100%
I support Helen Zille of the Da all the way in South Africa ...but I think BiBi & IDf are one of the biggest terroist group's atm

[Crimson Dynamo]

Donald Trump is right (about something): There really is an “alt-left,” but it’s even weirder than he thinks

As Trump, Hannity and other GOP hacks started throwing around the word “alt-left,” some liberal commentators who favored Clinton over her insurgent rival Sen. Bernie Sanders started using the word as well. Among them was Nation columnist and former Salon editor Joan Walsh: "At what point do some of these guys become the alt-left, a less toxic but still racially blinkered version of the alt-right?"

As Sarah Jones documented extensively last week, Clinton loyalists have continued their usage of the term as a cudgel against those further to their left.

As moderate Democrats have stuck with their usage of “alt-left,” Republicans seem to have adopted it. Once Trump was sworn in as president, conservatives started using it as a synonym for various “black bloc” or “antifa” groups who frequently oppose white nationalists at their public rallies or other events.

more here: http://www.salon.com/2017/08/26/donald-trump-is-right-about-something-there-really-is-an-alt-left-but-its-even-weirder-than-he-thinks/

[Oliver_W]

Again, there isn't an "alt-left" and there never will be

It's as good a collective name for violent groups like BLM and Antifa as any.