Raven was inspired by Dr. Will

[Calderyon]

https://www.globaltv.com/bigbrother/latest/raven-was-inspired-by-dr-will/

This bit caught my attention:

Although her chance at winning the half-million-dollar grand prize is over, Raven Walton says she modeled her game after Big Brother legend and season 2 winner, Will Kirby.

“My argument (to the jury) would have been that I played a great social game. Everyone liked me. Honestly, the one person I didn’t work well with was like a little squirrel running from room to room trying to get information. I didn’t get much blood on my hands; which was my strategy. I was going for a Will Kirby. He didn’t win a single HOH; which was how he avoided getting blood on his hands. My strategy was to play the best social game, so that everyone would like me and in the end, it would be hard for them not to vote for me,” she said.

Throughout the game, Raven considered Paul her “ride or die” and would never have betrayed him as she credits him with helping her make it as far as she did. She would have even taken him to the final two knowing all the while that he would win.

“I could never have found it in my moral compass to eliminate Paul. I would have loved to make the final two with him, even though I think he would have went over me, I still would have picked him to be in the final two with me. There’s no way I could have been convinced to get my friend out. Friendship all the way,” she proclaimed.

:skull:

[RileyH]

omg I love ha

[Calderyon]

I dislike her very much.

[Morgan.]

omg I love ha

I don't have the 'stop, get help' gif but if I did Here is where I would put it.

[JerseyWins]

Lmaooo :love:

[RileyH]

I don't have the 'stop, get help' gif but if I did Here is where I would put it.

I don't need help you cheeky bitch :nono:

[Braden]

Who's the squirrel?

[Calderyon]

One of the very definite no´s for All Stars in this season. I never want to see her again.

[RileyH]

#Raven4AllStars

[Calderyon]

Who's the squirrel?

Kevin, Jessica or Ramses, i think?

[Calderyon]

#Raven4AllStars

Yuck! Please no.

[RileyH]

https://media.giphy.com/media/L2gRIUmVBRx1S/giphy.gif

[JerseyWins]

Kevin, Jessica or Ramses, i think?
Has to be Ramses as they all mentioned him going from room to room to get information. Although idk if she worked with Kevin at all either and maybe he fits that description too. (edit: nah not really)

[Epic.]

This makes no sense!

[Jack_]

I mean I get where she's coming from but the problem is about 2-3 weeks ago the majority of the house were done with her and didn't like her at all?

The last paragraph is testament to Paul's great social game btw

This makes no sense!

Well it wouldn't if you don't know who Dr Will is :laugh:

[Braden]

I mean I get where she's coming from but the problem is about 2-3 weeks ago the majority of the house were done with her and didn't like her at all?

The last paragraph is testament to Paul's great social game btw



Well it wouldn't if you don't know who Dr Will is :laugh:

Or it's just a testament to how bad casting has got that they include people with the worst cases of follower-mentality.

Raven was always going to be the type of person to throw her game for someone else. Like many, she's one of the people who cares more about America's perception and what opportunities come after the show.

[RileyH]

Let's be honest here: Jess, Cody and Dommie were the only ones playing their own game. The rest are easily gonna let Paul win.

[Jack_]

Or it's just a testament to how bad casting has got that they include people with the worst cases of follower-mentality.

Raven was always going to be the type of person to throw her game for someone else. Like many, she's one of the people who cares more about America's perception and what opportunities come after the show.

Or it's testament to Paul's social manipulation skills that he convinced over half of the house that he is loyal to them and their partner only, that he isn't betraying them, and that they need to do his dirty work (including arguing with a particular week's target while he befriends them) because it's to the benefit of them all and not just him? I mean how would you even qualify 'follower mentality' in the casting process? How do you look for that? It's hardly a perceivable or foreseeable trait.

The dumb cast thing is just a excuse to not give him any credit, Paul's social game this year has thus far been impeccable and some of the things he's managed to achieve are absurd. If people were objective about it they would admit that

[Braden]

Or it's testament to Paul's social manipulation skills that he convinced over half of the house that he is loyal to them and their partner only, that he isn't betraying them, and that they need to do his dirty work (including arguing with a particular week's target while he befriends them) because it's to the benefit of them all and not just him? I mean how would you even qualify 'follower mentality' in the casting process? How do you look for that? It's hardly a perceivable or foreseeable trait.

The dumb cast thing is just a excuse to not give him any credit, Paul's social game this year has thus far been impeccable and some of the things he's managed to achieve are absurd. If people were objective about it they would admit that

I'm sure follower-mentality is easily assessed. It's quite simple from a viewer's perspective to notice who has follower-mentality and who doesn't. I'd say all of Paul's allies fulfil the criteria of follower-mentality (Josh is slowly coming out of his shell and making his own game for himself). I mean, he told Raven to bark (for example) to which she did, but that says more about Raven than it does about Paul.

Well, you've jumped the gun there because I definitely give Paul credit for being the best candidate to win, but in the realms of the game, especially in comparison to when this show displayed far better gameplay and quality of cast—his social game ain't ****. Fair enough if you want to classify that as a good social game, but I think the testament lies with the people he's playing with as oppose to Paul himself. Similar to Derrick, I won't take away that he deserves to win, but I just don't think they deserve credit or to be heralded as such.

Just my opinion, didn't mean to spark anything.

[Braden]

Also, Paul hate and Paul love is overblown from both sides (especially on this forum), and has kinda ruined the season from the start—for me, personally.

[Jack_]

I'm sure follower-mentality is easily assessed. It's quite simple from a viewer's perspective to notice who has follower-mentality and who doesn't. I'd say all of Paul's allies fulfil the criteria of follower-mentality (Josh is slowly coming out of his shell and making his own game for himself). I mean, he told Raven to bark (for example) to which she did, but that says more about Raven than it does about Paul.

Well, you've jumped the gun there because I definitely give Paul credit for being the best candidate to win, but in the realms of the game, especially in comparison to when this show displayed far better gameplay and quality of cast—his social game ain't ****. Fair enough if you want to classify that as a good social game, but I think the testament lies with the people he's playing with as oppose to Paul himself. Similar to Derrick, I won't take away that he deserves to win, but I just don't think they deserve credit or to be heralded as such.

Just my opinion, didn't mean to spark anything.

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that they've not all followed his orders for most of the summer, I'm just questioning the idea that something like that could be foreseen and be even deliberately (if you were alluding to that) casted. I don't think it would be a perceivable quality in the casting process? I'd imagine most people say they'd love to win and will do anything it takes and stab anyone in the back etc, if they literally said 'nah I'll throw my game away for my showmance partner' I'd be surprised if they made it on. Are this cast the smartest they've ever assembled? Of course not, but I do think there's an argument to be made that their perceived stupidity is thanks to Paul. He has managed to convince over half of the house that he has their back and doesn't need to be targeted, naive as they may be I think there's something to be said for that.

Well that's fair enough, I just feel like a large majority of the fandom let their hate for certain houseguests cloud their objective judgement. I still don't agree that his social game outside the context of this season is bad though, because you only have to rewind a year to find a season where he was nominated five times and faced eviction on three of those occasions, and still made it to the final two. He would have won had his jury management been better (which is where I think his game still lacks finesse), or even simpler than that - taken James to final two instead! And I don't think anyone could say that last season's cast were dumb or not there to play. So if in back-to-back seasons (one with four vets in, and one with him as the only vet), he's made it to (at least) the endgame, I really don't think it's fair to say his social game sucks...the stats speak for themselves.

[Braden]

Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree that they've not all followed his orders for most of the summer, I'm just questioning the idea that something like that could be foreseen and be even deliberately (if you were alluding to that) casted. I don't think it would be a perceivable quality in the casting process? I'd imagine most people say they'd love to win and will do anything it takes and stab anyone in the back etc, if they literally said 'nah I'll throw my game away for my showmance partner' I'd be surprised if they made it on. Are this cast the smartest they've ever assembled? Of course not, but I do think there's an argument to be made that their perceived stupidity is thanks to Paul. He has managed to convince over half of the house that he has their back and doesn't need to be targeted, naive as they may be I think there's something to be said for that.

Well that's fair enough, I just feel like a large majority of the fandom let their hate for certain houseguests cloud their objective judgement. I still don't agree that his social game outside the context of this season is bad though, because you only have to rewind a year to find a season where he was nominated five times and faced eviction on three of those occasions, and still made it to the final two. He would have won had his jury management been better (which is where I think his game still lacks finesse), or even simpler than that - taken James to final two instead! And I don't think anyone could say that last season's cast were dumb or not there to play. So if in back-to-back seasons (one with four vets in, and one with him as the only vet), he's made it to (at least) the endgame, I really don't think it's fair to say his social game sucks...the stats speak for themselves.

See, I think the reason why I make the suggestion so confidently (and I'm totally aware I am referring to a post-casting scenario here) is because in pre-show interviews when Jeff asks 'would you rather win and be hated, or lose and be loved by America?' over half the cast still say they'd rather lose and be loved. If I were casting I would totally chuck that person to the side if they said that, but that's just me. Sometimes it does result in hilarious outcomes, such as Alex saying she wants to lose and be loved and then come back and win ala Nicole Franzel. I definitely think that mentality has been produced by the importance of America's Favourite Player and how people would rather win that and potentially make something of themselves post-show.

I agree with you, I know I hated the fact that Derrick obviously deserved to win but it was the truth. I definitely think he played an okay game last season, and I did go back and forth as to whether he deserved to win over Nicole but jury management is the key aspect of social game (though, I wouldn't necessarily knock Paul's social game as much for the reason you mentioned) but people like Natalie straight up said that there's no way she was gonna vote for him because of the bad things he said about her. I think it's better for him in terms of this season because everyone is all for him, but it's so hard to see gratification in his win based on how awful everyone else is. Though, I do genuinely still think he deserves if no-one else takes the shot at him at the last minute.

[T*]

She needs to go to a real doctor

[Jack_]

See, I think the reason why I make the suggestion so confidently (and I'm totally aware I am referring to a post-casting scenario here) is because in pre-show interviews when Jeff asks 'would you rather win and be hated, or lose and be loved by America?' over half the cast still say they'd rather lose and be loved. If I were casting I would totally chuck that person to the side if they said that, but that's just me. Sometimes it does result in hilarious outcomes, such as Alex saying she wants to lose and be loved and then come back and win ala Nicole Franzel. I definitely think that mentality has been produced by the importance of America's Favourite Player and how people would rather win that and potentially make something of themselves post-show.

I agree with you, I know I hated the fact that Derrick obviously deserved to win but it was the truth. I definitely think he played an okay game last season, and I did go back and forth as to whether he deserved to win over Nicole but jury management is the key aspect of social game (though, I wouldn't necessarily knock Paul's social game as much for the reason you mentioned) but people like Natalie straight up said that there's no way she was gonna vote for him because of the bad things he said about her. I think it's better for him in terms of this season because everyone is all for him, but it's so hard to see gratification in his win based on how awful everyone else is. Though, I do genuinely still think he deserves if no-one else takes the shot at him at the last minute.

Oh see I don't bother with those so I didn't know that :joker: I do see what you're saying though and I do agree in a general sense that there's a huge problem with BBUS casting (even if I am in the minority who has enjoyed this season). The show has changed a lot since BB15 and not really for the better, I feel like this season aside they very much watered down the content to appeal to a younger audience and casted people who's main interest is acquiring a Twitter following after the show. But you're always going to get people who slip through the net too, the same happens in BBUK where someone's VT may be amazing but then they don't actually turn up in the house. So I concede that Paul's definitely had it easier this season than last but I do think his ability in manipulating them all to bow to his every word is a lot of his doing too. Getting four people to throw a track comp to a girl with a broken foot is as hilarious as it is amazing.

Paul's loss was absolutely his fault and the most annoying part about it is his poor jury management could've been salvaged had he taken the right person to final two. Nicole's win was as much his doing as it was hers but you take what you can get, that's the game, she secured the votes and therefore deserved it. I totally get why people don't like him (less so last season, but moreso this), and even I don't like him as much because he was much funnier last time around, and I also understand why people object morally to some of his gameplay (and that's a different debate altogether) - but I still believe he's easily in the top ten players of all time. I don't think he's better than them, but only Will and Dan have ever come this close to doing the same thing twice.

[RileyH]

She needs to go to a real doctor

:laugh2:

[Calderyon]

Actually Will Kirby is a real doctor. But he´s a dermatologist, so he can only help on her skin, nails and hair diseases. Mostly on the skin part.

[Pro Sniper]

I mean I get where she's coming from but the problem is about 2-3 weeks ago the majority of the house were done with her and didn't like her at all?

The last paragraph is testament to Paul's great social game btw



Well it wouldn't if you don't know who Dr Will is :laugh:

That is quite a ridiculous thing to say considering their pre-game connection. Had they not known each other from Adam then at least some credit could be attributed to him for convincing a person to be that loyal. As it is, we know they knew each other, and without a doubt conspired to help each other in the game(+ Jury votes) - most likely with commission agreements(2-15%) in place on any jackpot win. Even if you want to ignore the obvious likelihood of that, and we completely ignore their pre-game connection, Raven was a HUGE fan of the beard, and made her loyalty to him known from the get-go. And again, if you think these type of castings are coincidental/random, you're as gullible as the fools who believe gammy leg Christmas when she's handed an HOH and assures the viewers she's ready to make "big moves"..

A country with a population of over 300million..and yet the clowns in charge of casting the show can't seem to find among them 12 complete strangers with 0 ties..

[Jack_]

That is quite a ridiculous thing to say considering their pre-game connection. Had they not known each other from Adam then at least some credit could be attributed to him for convincing a person to be that loyal. As it is, we know they knew each other, and without a doubt conspired to help each other in the game(+ Jury votes) - most likely with commission agreements(2-15%) in place on any jackpot win. Even if you want to ignore the obvious likelihood of that, and we completely ignore their pre-game connection, Raven was a HUGE fan of the beard, and made her loyalty to him known from the get-go. And again, if you think these type of castings are coincidental/random, you're as gullible as the fools who believe gammy leg Christmas when she's handed an HOH and assures the viewers she's ready to make "big moves"..

A country with a population of over 300million..and yet the clowns in charge of casting the show can't seem to find among them 12 complete strangers with 0 ties..

Okay then, let's replace Raven with any other one of the like what...final eight? The same still applies.

Did I say that people who know each other being casted was a coincidence? At no point was I talking about that, the discussion I was having was regarding whether or not people who are likely to follow others is a perceivable or foreseeable character trait in the casting process and thus one that could potentially be deliberately casted. Had nothing to do with Paul and Raven knowing each other. If you'd bothered to read the thread properly you would've known that.

[Pro Sniper]

Okay then, let's replace Raven with any other one of the like what...final eight? The same still applies.

Did I say that people who know each other being casted was a coincidence? At no point was I talking about that, the discussion I was having was regarding whether or not people who are likely to follow others is a perceivable or foreseeable character trait in the casting process and thus one that could potentially be deliberately casted. Had nothing to do with Paul and Raven knowing each other. If you'd bothered to read the thread properly you would've known that.

Whatever point you were trying to make still doesn't make sense. There was no "discussion" prior to the quote I replied to. The beard was Raven's "buddy-buddy" and the rest of the house simply acknowledged she was a joke who could be picked off at any time. I don't see what the beard's "great social game" has to do with it. We already know they all believe every word that comes from his mouth..and that he's got them all believing he's on "their" team,, but to me that just confirms how bad these "players" are he's up against. They're all happily sitting back and allowing someone to call the shots on their behalf..with 0 effort in doing what he's been doing from the beginning> covering himself from all sides. Having a huge pool of passive and/or thick as pigshyte contestants have made this season the joke that it is. But as I've been saying, given their obvious agenda this season, I doubt it wasn't orchestrated this way..

[LemonJam]

well Will also lied about having Leukemia so I guess it's not too far off.

[JTM45]

I dislike her very much.

I'm with you on that. :clap1:
She really is a heinous wrech.

Can't wait 'til she gets back into the outside World to discover that her BB appearance has blown up her long-term fake/highly exagerrated illnesses Money scamming!

She might have to make do with just the one Dance Studio in the future. Such hardship! Dispicable creature. :yuk:

[mattC.]

she's a lying ****

[Captain.Remy]

Still shook at how she thought she was a puppet master lmao
WTF moment of the season :skull: