Jacob Rees-Mogg blasted for saying food banks are 'uplifting' is TOTALLY WRONG!

[Wizard.]

Conservative leadership favourite Jacob Rees-Mogg has said the growing use of food banks in the UK is “rather uplifting”.

The Tory MP insisted that rather than demonstrating the scale of poverty in the country, the development showed what a “good compassionate country we are.”

Speaking to LBC radio Mr Rees-Mogg said: “I don’t think the state can do everything that it tries.

“It provides a basic level of welfare… but on some occasions that will not work and to have charitable support given by people voluntarily to support their fellow citizens I think is rather uplifting and shows what a good compassionate country we are.”

Food bank use is on the rise, with data from the Trussell Trust indicating the country’s food banks provided more than a million emergency food supplies to UK people last year.

Mr Rees-Mogg attributed the rise to the fact that people now “know they are there.”

“The real reason for the rise in numbers is because people know they are there and Labour refused to tell them.”

The fact that Jacob Rees-Mogg is being blasted over his comment is absurd. He's totally right in saying that the state can't do everything, and it can't help everyone. Name me one country in the world with 0 poverty and 0 homelessness, I don't think you can. We once had to rely on food banks, not a fault of anyone else, my mum had mental health issues so it was our last resort, and without them our family would have starved. Do I believe that the state should have provided us with food and or money because my parent was totally incapable of budgeting? Hell no. It's amazing that people are so generous to donate food, and I am grateful to now be in the position to return the favour and donate food myself.

[Kizzy]

Thank god for all the ragged trousered philanthropists out there or we would have to spend public money on the public! *spits*


This guy is a breed apart, just because he uses 500 words when 3 will do does not mean that he is any better informed or in this instance even truthful :/

[user104658]

Just another Tory worm who grew up under his parents' inherited wing / bootheel, he's just flapping his gums. He has literally no real concept of what he's talking about. To him, poverty is something you have to look at out of your car window if you happen to drive down the wrong street, before quickly looking away.

[Crimson Dynamo]

King of recognising the positive rather than the negative

:clap1:

[Gusto Brunt]

He always reminds me of Hen Broon, from the Broon's comics.

https://i3.ytimg.com/vi/z5jQozZahTE/mqdefault.jpg

[Withano]

Is he really the leadership favourite? That's distressing. Don't see anything wrong with his words here, its his words on abortion that have turned me off him for life.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Is he really the leadership favourite? That's distressing. Don't see anything wrong with his words here, its his words on abortion that have turned me off him for life.

Yes he belongs to the Catholic cult and that is disturbing

[Kizzy]

As opposed to the CofE cult you mean?...

[Crimson Dynamo]

As opposed to the CofE cult you mean?...

The Catholic superstition is way, way worse

[Tom4784]

The growing dependency on food banks should never be presented as a good thing. It's a failure of the state that food banks are becoming a necessity for a lot of people.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The growing dependency on food banks should never be presented as a good thing. It's a failure of the state that food banks are becoming a necessity for a lot of people.

what about people who get enough money for food and then blow it on gambling, drink, fags etc?

Is that the fault of the state too?

Its far too simplistic to see all foodbank users as this innocent deserving underclass

[Tom4784]

what about people who get enough money for food and then blow it on gambling, drink, fags etc?

Is that the fault of the state too?

Its far too simplistic to see all foodbank users as this innocent deserving underclass

You are trying too hard.

[reece(:]

He's a dinosaur anyway so his views are nonsense.

[Vicky.]

The rise in people donating to foodbanks is uplifting indeed. Shows that normal people care about others more.

The rise in people HAVING TO USE foodbanks is anything but uplifting.

When we have so many people (including the likes of ****ing nurses) having to use foodbanks, it shows something is drastically wrong. And no amount of politicians trying to make out its a good thing...will make it so.


LOL at this bit though..

The real reason for the rise in numbers is because people know they are there and Labour refused to tell them.

Nah mate. The reason for the rise in numbers is the long pay freezes people are subjected to, along with various degrees of benefit delays/sanctions/changes that the Tories have brought in.

[Crimson Dynamo]

The rise in people donating to foodbanks is uplifting indeed. Shows that normal people care about others more.

The rise in people HAVING TO USE foodbanks is anything but uplifting.

When we have so many people (including the likes of ****ing nurses) having to use foodbanks, it shows something is drastically wrong. And no amount of politicians trying to make out its a good thing...will make it so.


LOL at this bit though..



Nah mate. The reason for the rise in numbers is the long pay freezes people are subjected to, along with various degrees of benefit delays/sanctions/changes that the Tories have brought in.

evidence for both?

[Vicky.]

Trussell Trust data also reveals that benefit delays and changes remain the biggest cause of referral to a foodbank, accounting for 43 percent of all referrals (26 percent benefit delay; 17 percent benefit change), a slight rise on last year’s 42 percent. Low income has also risen as a referral cause from 23 percent to 26 percent.

https://www.trusselltrust.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/04/primary-referral-causes-2016-2017.png

Benefit delays’ refer to people not receiving benefits to which they are entitled on time, this category can also include problems with processing new claims, or any other time-lags in people receiving their welfare payments.
‘Benefit changes’ refers to the problems resulting from a change in people’s welfare payments, for example, people having their benefits stopped whilst they are reassessed. This can also include a sanction.
‘Low income’ refers to anyone who is struggling to get by on a low income. This could be people in work, or people on benefits, for whom a small crisis e.g. boiler breaking down or having to buy school uniform etc, can be enough to mean that they cannot afford food.
https://www.trusselltrust.org/2017/04/25/uk-foodbank-use-continues-rise/

Infact, the whole page...

[Vicky.]

what about people who get enough money for food and then blow it on gambling, drink, fags etc?


Just seen this...whilst of course, there are bad apples in any bunch and to deny some people spend wages/benefits on loads of unneeded stuff whilst claiming poverty would be ridiculous, people like this would be highly unlikely to get a referral. And a referral is needed, you can't just walk in and demand a food parcel.

We once had to use a foodbank, a few years back when I became ill and there was a 3 month delay in processing my ESA claim.

We had to give bank statements and such, to prove we had not just had income and spent it irresponsibly. We had to prove that cash we had got in the weeks prior had not been spent on stuff like drink. As I recall, we actually had a bit of a problem as we were on key/card gas and electric and there was 50 quid 'unaccounted for' and of course we did not have a receipt for the gas/electric we had topped up, as...why keep receipts once the credit is on? Local shop redid them for us as I live in a relatively small village and they knew us and remembered us topping up. But I am fairly sure we would not have got the referral had we not been able to provide that receipt

[Kizzy]

Vicky I wouldn't bother all the channel 5 'documentaries' have infected his mind :/

[DemolitionRed]

There’s nothing good about hundreds and thousands of people, many of them workers, having to supplement their diet from food banks and there's nothing good about a government who rely on the generosity of others to feed its hungry nation. Food banks are no better than Victorian style institutions for the poor because when you take away workers rights and keep them struggling to survive, you imprison people into a system of hopelessness.

Edited to say, the whole system is designed to reduce social mobility.

[Oliver_W]

There might be something in more awareness for food banks, I hadn't heard of them until a few years ago.

[user104658]

what about people who get enough money for food and then blow it on gambling, drink, fags etc?

Is that the fault of the state too?

Its far too simplistic to see all foodbank users as this innocent deserving underclass

Even if this was true (and it's only true for a tiny percentage)...

1) Gambling is declining, not increasing.

2) Smoking is declining, not increasing.

3) Drinking is at the same (albeit, too high) level that it has always been at. Not increasing.




So... while these vices might account for some food bank use, they cannot account for an increase in food bank use.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Even if this was true (and it's only true for a tiny percentage)...

1) Gambling is declining, not increasing.

2) Smoking is declining, not increasing.

3) Drinking is at the same (albeit, too high) level that it has always been at. Not increasing.




So... while these vices might account for some food bank use, they cannot account for an increase in food bank use.


Whilst that may be true and you do not provide evidence, is it true of the demographic we are discussing, my educated guess would be no.

[jaxie]

There might be something in more awareness for food banks, I hadn't heard of them until a few years ago.

I hadn't heard of them before the last few years either. So he may have a bit of point on increased awareness. I'm also dubious about claims of nurses having to use them. I've seen one sensationalised press claim regarding one nurse and there isn't anything otherwise to support that. He is also right that people are very kind to donate. I think we have a very good welfare system in this country and people make it out to be far worse than it is.

[Vicky.]

I hadn't heard of them before the last few years either. So he may have a bit of point on increased awareness. I'm also dubious about claims of nurses having to use them. I've seen one sensationalised press claim regarding one nurse and there isn't anything otherwise to support that. He is also right that people are very kind to donate. I think we have a very good welfare system in this country and people make it out to be far worse than it is.

https://fullfact.org/economy/how-many-nurses-are-using-foodbanks/

The Royal College of Nursing (RCN) has reported “growing numbers of nursing staff using food banks, taking on additional jobs and accruing personal debt”. It told us that:

“We have a network of reps and RCN officers that stretches across the UK. They are in constant contact with members and this is what they report. This is not just one or two cases.”

[Vicky.]

Whilst that may be true and you do not provide evidence, is it true of the demographic we are discussing, my educated guess would be no.

Maybe not. But its pretty irrelevant surely given that people who had spent a large amount of money on gambling, cigs or alcohol (or drugs though those weren't mentioned) would be unable to get a referal to begin with. And definitely not numerous referals, as some do seem to think its an ongoing thing, people spending beyond their means and then just going to foodbanks because they can. Infact our local one only allows one referal a YEAR.

Something I never understood though...while on this topic, is how smoking/drinking is more common among the poorer people than those better off. Both very expensive habits..

[DemolitionRed]

Who really goes to food banks? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40431701) This is an informative read.

[Vicky.]

Who really goes to food banks? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40431701) This is an informative read.

Ill health is a very common feature. Almost two-thirds of users had a health condition, half of households using food banks included someone with a disability and a third had mental health problems.

This does not surprise me one bit. Obviously nothing at all to do with ATOS and their ilk repeatedly removing PIP/DLA (which is for both employed and unemployed disabled people) from so many people

Which yes, has been going on a long time as I believe it was Labour that originally contracted them. But they have got progressively worse with time ( I assume the bonuses they receive for saying people are fine went up or something), and fairly recently the government changed the goalposts even more so to speak, meaning that whilst people still have the same disability/symptoms they always did, it has simply been decided that they are not as ill anymore...which is causing the long term disabled a hell of a lot of stress and creating even more (usually successful) tribunals against obviously wrong decisions.

[jaxie]

https://fullfact.org/economy/how-many-nurses-are-using-foodbanks/

Your link begins: In brief
Claim
Nurses have been using food banks.
Conclusion
Media reports show that at least some individual nurses and trainees have visited food banks. We don’t have solid evidence of the scale of use.

No solid evidence which is what I said. :shrug:

[Vicky.]

Your link begins: In brief
Claim
Nurses have been using food banks.
Conclusion
Media reports show that at least some individual nurses and trainees have visited food banks. We don’t have solid evidence of the scale of use.

No solid evidence which is what I said. :shrug:

You said you were dubious about nurses having to use them as you have only ever seen one sensationalized press claim of one nurse having to and said there was nothing otherwise to support this. There is other stuff to support this, was my point...coming from The Royal College of Nursing rather than just random press articles?

[DemolitionRed]

Your link begins: In brief
Claim
Nurses have been using food banks.
Conclusion
Media reports show that at least some individual nurses and trainees have visited food banks. We don’t have solid evidence of the scale of use.

No solid evidence which is what I said. :shrug:

Here is the evidence...

A registered nurse in a London hospital will, on average, earn around £28,000 per year.
After tax and NI the take home pay is going to be around £22,000

If she/he is single and renting a one bed flat, the average rent will be between £1,000 and £1,500 pcm or £12,000 and £18,000 per year.

Then there are contract fees, rates, utility bills, travel expenses, clothing, sundries and food and she/he has to pay for all of that with the tiny amount of money left.

Single hospital professionals, at least in London, are known to use food banks.

Edited to add. I forgot to add student loan. From this year onwards a nursing student isn't eligible for a bursary and will now have to pay back a student loan. I just looked it up and a two-year course is £20k and that doesn't include living costs. A newly qualified nurse is going to have an average debt of £40k

[jaxie]

Here is the evidence...

A registered nurse in a London hospital will, on average, earn around £28,000 per year.
After tax and NI the take home pay is going to be around £22,000

If she/he is single and renting a one bed flat, the average rent will be between £1,000 and £1,500 pcm or £12,000 and £18,000 per year.

Then there are contract fees, rates, utility bills, travel expenses, clothing, sundries and food and she/he has to pay for all of that with the tiny amount of money left.

Single hospital professionals, at least in London, are known to use food banks.

Lots of ordinary people have to live on similar sums, with the same life costs and don't necessarily use food banks. I'm not suggesting nurses don't deserve a pay rise but 22 k a year is hardly a destitute salary. Also you'd get a 3 bedroom house on the outskirts of London for 1000 k a month. There is one not far from where I live for that price. A one bedroom flat would be a lot less.

And again you aren't giving any real evidence that nurses en masse have to use food banks.

[jaxie]

You said you were dubious about nurses having to use them as you have only ever seen one sensationalized press claim of one nurse having to and said there was nothing otherwise to support this. There is other stuff to support this, was my point...coming from The Royal College of Nursing rather than just random press articles?

It's still only hearsay, no actual evidence is presented. I could say Vicky told me the sky is green.

[Beso]

The growing dependency on food banks should never be presented as a good thing. It's a failure of the state that food banks are becoming a necessity for a lot of people.

Or an excuse for some

[Beso]

Just seen this...whilst of course, there are bad apples in any bunch and to deny some people spend wages/benefits on loads of unneeded stuff whilst claiming poverty would be ridiculous, people like this would be highly unlikely to get a referral. And a referral is needed, you can't just walk in and demand a food parcel.

We once had to use a foodbank, a few years back when I became ill and there was a 3 month delay in processing my ESA claim.

We had to give bank statements and such, to prove we had not just had income and spent it irresponsibly. We had to prove that cash we had got in the weeks prior had not been spent on stuff like drink. As I recall, we actually had a bit of a problem as we were on key/card gas and electric and there was 50 quid 'unaccounted for' and of course we did not have a receipt for the gas/electric we had topped up, as...why keep receipts once the credit is on? Local shop redid them for us as I live in a relatively small village and they knew us and remembered us topping up. But I am fairly sure we would not have got the referral had we not been able to provide that receipt

Yet a nurse in full time employment can get it....something dont add up.

[Beso]

Dont doctors and nurses get discounted, if not free food at the hospitals they work at?

[DemolitionRed]

Lots of ordinary people have to live on similar sums, with the same life costs and don't necessarily use food banks. I'm not suggesting nurses don't deserve a pay rise but 22 k a year is hardly a destitute salary. Also you'd get a 3 bedroom house on the outskirts of London for 1000 k a month. There is one not far from where I live for that price. A one bedroom flat would be a lot less.

And again you aren't giving any real evidence that nurses en masse have to use food banks.

What outskirts of London?
If you have to catch a daily commuter train (and not a bus) its going to be very expensive if you're not subsidized for that train.

22k a year in London is definitely a bottom end salary if you are living on your own. I know I couldn't survive on it or maybe I could but I'd be scraping the bone.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Who really goes to food banks? (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-40431701) This is an informative read.

does it state what they spend the money they do get on?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Claim

Nurses have been using food banks.


Conclusion

Media reports show that at least some individual nurses and trainees have visited food banks. We don’t have solid evidence of the scale of use


https://fullfact.org/economy/how-many-nurses-are-using-foodbanks/

Or what the individual nurses spent their money they had on!

[user104658]

Claim
Poverty doesn't exist and isn't a problem, it's just lazy freeloaders.

Conclusion

:facepalm:

[DemolitionRed]

Claim
Poverty doesn't exist and isn't a problem, it's just lazy freeloaders.

Conclusion

:facepalm:

Some people are good at 'Self blame strengthening'. Personally, I blame the government and their right wing allies for this fairly common working class attitude towards anyone less fortunate than themselves. Some people are just subservient to their masters.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Claim
Poverty doesn't exist and isn't a problem, it's just lazy freeloaders.

Conclusion

:facepalm:

exaggerating a point till it bleeds and then reacting to your own exaggeration is hardly worthy of "serious debate"

this isnt twitter

[Crimson Dynamo]

Some people are good at 'Self blame strengthening'. Personally, I blame the government and their right wing allies for this fairly common working class attitude towards anyone less fortunate than themselves. Some people are just subservient to their masters.

I love when you make a point and then go on to ironically confirm it

:smug:

[DemolitionRed]

I love when you make a point and then go on to ironically confirm it

:smug: And I love it when you make sarcastic mediocre comments because it displays your thinking.

[Crimson Dynamo]

And I love it when you make sarcastic mediocre comments because it displays your thinking.

yes it does when I reply to one of yours :hee:

[Brillopad]

Some people are good at 'Self blame strengthening'. Personally, I blame the government and their right wing allies for this fairly common working class attitude towards anyone less fortunate than themselves. Some people are just subservient to their masters.

Only a 'working class attitude' - really! You appear to suggest that you would class yourself as at least 'middle class' and do not appear to have a very positive attitude towards those you consider 'working class'. And you accuse the Tories!!!

[Kizzy]

Only a 'working class attitude' - really! You appear to suggest that you would class yourself as at least 'middle class' and do not appear to have a very positive attitude towards those you consider 'working class'. And you accuse the Tories!!!

Now now are you attempting to put words in mouths?...tsk :nono:

[Kizzy]

I think that the attitudinal shift has come from the establishment, a few yrs ago would working people and families using foodbanks be so acceptable generally?
Personally I doubt it and it all plays into the 'austerity' myth that it is ok for people to lie in want because 'austerity' especially when you hear statements like this..
“I don’t think the state can do everything,” he said. “It tries to provide a base of welfare that should allow people to make ends meet during the course of the week, but on some occasions that will not work. And to have charitable support given by people voluntarily to support their fellow citizens, I think is rather uplifting and shows what a good, compassionate country we are.”

If it were only people on welfare using food banks it would be bad enough and yet it isn't, and the govt are not acknowledging this they are effectively saying that they will not aid those who can not aid themselves.
As we are a 'civilised society' the onus falls on us to help... there is no question of calling for landlords to reduce exorbitant rents, the energy cabal of capping prices of paying a decent living wage, of reducing VAT....nothing that would actually help and not in the way of what many see as 'handouts'.

I 100% agree with the churches position that he is unChristian, as he has seemingly stated that there is nothing that the establishment can or will do for those in need and if their communities cannot help then they are to starve.
How else can his statement be interpreted?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/14/jacob-rees-mogg-increased-use-food-banks-rather-uplifting

[jaxie]

Claim
Poverty doesn't exist and isn't a problem, it's just lazy freeloaders.

Conclusion

:facepalm:

I didn't say any of that. Why is it that you feel it necessary to misrepresent people by projecting some bull you are making up onto them?

[jaxie]

Some people are good at 'Self blame strengthening'. Personally, I blame the government and their right wing allies for this fairly common working class attitude towards anyone less fortunate than themselves. Some people are just subservient to their masters.

Are you not one of the peons who work for a living then? What a horrible patronising attitude to the working class. What brought this scathing ridicule on? Someone said they don't think 22k a year is a poverty line salary. :shrug:

Why is it necessary to attack or make nasty remarks about those with a different view?

[Kizzy]

I didn't say any of that. Why is it that you feel it necessary to misrepresent people by projecting some bull you are making up onto them?

Who said you did?... Nobody that I can see :/

[Kizzy]

Are you not one of the peons who work for a living then? What a horrible patronising attitude to the working class. What brought this scathing ridicule on? Someone said they don't think 22k a year is a poverty line salary. :shrug:

Why is it necessary to attack or make nasty remarks to those with a different view?

My feeling is they are frustrated at the lack of empathy for those on low incomes, that in itself smacks of ridicule when someone living and working in the capital admits they are struggling to manage on what in other parts of the country would seem average.

A little forethought as to what rent, travel costs,utilities, council tax as well grocery shopping amounts to in the capital. Then perhaps reactionary knee jerk responses like that wouldn't be met with as much frustration?

[DemolitionRed]

Only a 'working class attitude' - really! You appear to suggest that you would class yourself as at least 'middle class' and do not appear to have a very positive attitude towards those you consider 'working class'. And you accuse the Tories!!!

Do I now? I'm working class and proud of it. In fact I'm so working class I'm a trade unionist! I love working class people, I just don't like the aspiring working class who think of themselves as middle class just because they have a mortgage and a house with curb appeal.

In my opinion, anyone who's working class and looks down on the unfortunates among us whilst considering themselves middle-class are poseur. I also think that working class folk who vote Tory are subservient to a higher being and it aint God.

I'm sure my words will offend. Just in case they do, Ill say this, If we do not believe in freedom of speech for those we despise we do not believe in it at all.

[Kizzy]

Do I now? I'm working class and proud of it. In fact I'm so working class I'm a trade unionist! I love working class people, I just don't like the aspiring working class who think of themselves as middle class just because they have a mortgage and a house with curb appeal.

In my opinion, anyone who's working class and looks down on the unfortunates among us whilst considering themselves middle-class are poseur. I also think that working class folk who vote Tory are subservient to a higher being and it aint God.

I'm sure my words will offend. Just in case they do, Ill say this, If we do not believe in freedom of speech for those we despise we do not believe in it at all.

Well said! :laugh: great post.

[DemolitionRed]

Are you not one of the peons who work for a living then? What a horrible patronising attitude to the working class. What brought this scathing ridicule on? Someone said they don't think 22k a year is a poverty line salary. :shrug:

Why is it necessary to attack or make nasty remarks to those with a different view?

Laughs. I knew you'd be another person to twist my words and behave all offended!

What was it you just said to TS?

I didn't say any of that. Why is it that you feel it necessary to misrepresent people by projecting some bull you are making up onto them?

:hehe:

[jaxie]

Laughs. I knew you'd be another person to twist my words and behave all offended!

What was it you just said to TS?



:hehe:

I'm not behaving offended I'm not twisting what you said. I'm calling what I see and wondering why this is becoming a trend. Is it champion of the people or champion of the peons when it suits?

[jaxie]

My feeling is they are frustrated at the lack of empathy for those on low incomes, that in itself smacks of ridicule when someone living and working in the capital admits they are struggling to manage on what in other parts of the country would seem average.

A little forethought as to what rent, travel costs,utilities, council tax as well grocery shopping amounts to in the capital. Then perhaps reactionary knee jerk responses like that wouldn't be met with as much frustration?

How do you know I have no empathy for people on low income? All I actually said was I don't think 22k after tax is a poverty line salary and I'm a bit sceptical there is a huge queue of Nurses at the food bank. Anything else is fantasy.

How often do you job search? I've been doing a fair bit to help a couple of family members seeking work recently and I can tell you that 28k is a fairly generous salary when compared to what many jobs are offering.

[DemolitionRed]

I'm not behaving offended I'm not twisting what you said. I'm calling what I see and wondering why this is becoming a trend. Is it champion of the people or champion of the peons when it suits?

There you go again. You don't know what I'm saying and you don’t even know that you don’t know.

[jaxie]

There you go again. You don't know what I'm saying and you don’t even know that you don’t know.

I'm starting to see pretty clearly actually.

[Kizzy]

How do you know I have no empathy for people on low income? All I actually said was I don't think 22k after tax is a poverty line salary and I'm a bit sceptical there is a huge queue of Nurses at the food bank. Anything else is fantasy.

How often do you job search? I've been doing a fair bit to help a couple of family members seeking work recently and I can tell you that 28k is a fairly generous salary when compared to what many jobs are offering.

Where did I say that you personally have no empathy I was referring to the Mogg interview! Please stop being so reactionary and looking for offence where none is intended, it's getting very boring.

The figure is 22k not 28k :/ Did you not see the portion of my post that made reference to the monthly outgoings in the capital?
It highlights the difficulty managing on what appears to be a adequate wage in London in 2017.

[DemolitionRed]

Where did I say that you personally have no empathy I was referring to the Mogg interview! Please stop being so reactionary and looking for offence where none is intended, it's getting very boring.

The figure is 22k not 28k :/ Did you not see the portion of my post that made reference to the monthly outgoings in the capital?
It highlights the difficulty managing on what appears to be a adequate wage in London in 2017.

I think that was aimed at me but I didn't suggest she had no empathy either :think:

As for thinking registered nurses earn a decent salary. I wouldn't consider going to uni for three years for a foundation degree if I wasn't going to be earning substantially more than that when I qualified. One of the reasons we are losing British nurses in droves, either to other employment or hospitals overseas, is because the salaries are crap. Its the same for paramedics. These people are the lifeblood of our NHS and we are stealth taxing them.

Comfortably off is affording the luxury of being self-sufficient whilst still having enough spare cash enjoy yourself.

[Kizzy]

Regardless of what is considered being in 'poverty' that in no way excuses his attitude or comments in regard to the topic anyway it's totally irrelevant in fact.