UK terror threat level raised to Critical

[Will.]

It means an attack is imminent

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-41288525

[RichardG]

don't think anything else is going to happen tbh

[arista]

Yes Army now are in London

Sadly it means others are with this Failed Attack
Even Manchester
and Scotland and Brighton at risk

Extra Police in most Major City


Army now on special routes
STAY AT HOME
not worth the risk, Will.

[arista]

don't think anything else is going to happen tbh

You just do not get it?

All day Police and MI5
got all the data
now confirming 2nd , 3rd
4th attacks are now possible


[Military personnel will also replace officers "on guard duties at certain protected sites which are not accessible to the public".]

http://news.sky.com/story/uk-terror-threat-raised-from-severe-to-critical-11037366


Army will shoot dead every
Terrorist they find

[Will.]

Yes Army now are in London

Sadly it means others are with this Failed Attack
Even Manchester
and Scotland and Brighton at risk

Extra Police in most Major City


Army now on special routes
STAY AT HOME
not worth the risk, Will.


I plan on it Arista!

[Jason.]

Wasn't it raised to critical after Manchester?

[Will.]

Wasn't it raised to critical after Manchester?

Yeah I think so, they dropped it like 1/2 days after as they found all those connected iirc.

[Oliver_W]

Wow, the government will do ... Nothing different at all.

After all, enough is enough.

[Crimson Dynamo]

More bombs about to be left on public transport. This time they won't fail like today

Islamic terrorism it seems

Again

[Will.]

Oh it sounds more like it's here to stay for a while from what Thresea May said, army will replace police around many areas/places in London.

What Arista said really.

[Wizard.]

I assume it's because they haven't found who carried out today's attack?

[DemolitionRed]

You just do not get it?

All day Police and MI5
got all the data
now confirming 2nd , 3rd
4th attacks are now possible


[Military personnel will also replace officers "on guard duties at certain protected sites which are not accessible to the public".]

http://news.sky.com/story/uk-terror-threat-raised-from-severe-to-critical-11037366


Army will shoot dead every
Terrorist they find

FFS stop being a 999 alarmist. You are putting up stuff with no link. We all know about the raised terror threat but that's it.

Some idiot puts a homemade bomb on the tube, that didn’t go off properly. Probably an Islamist sympathizer but with all the clues he left behind, he should be caught in no time. I’ve just been sitting in my local bar in central London and nobody there seemed concerned. People were far more bothered about a warehouse fire stopping trains out of Euston.

[Rob!]

I take it this means we're getting armed police on the streets again? :worry:

[Liberty4eva]

The response will be we need to import more Muslims to prove to the Muslims already in the UK that they love Islam

[Rob!]

The response will be we need to import more Muslims to prove to the Muslims already in the UK that they love Islam

Right.

[Liberty4eva]

Wow, the government will do ... Nothing different at all.

After all, enough is enough.

Honestly, the only thing that might stop the terror is to identify the places in the UK controlled by Muslims and then build walls around them.

[JTM45]

Honestly, the only thing that might stop the terror is to identify the places in the UK controlled by Muslims and then build walls around them.

There are no places in the UK that are ''controlled by Muslims'' (despite what a few agenda-driven people would want you to believe) and we do not ''build walls'' around or even between us and any problems we have. We are not Israel or the US (thankfully!).
Trump has backed down on his vote bait wall crap now too, so even someone in such a high position with such bad ideas has come to realize that it would do much more damage (to him obviously, because that's all he's ever cared about) than good (again, to him).

[Kizzy]

Honestly, the only thing that might stop the terror is to identify the places in the UK controlled by Muslims and then build walls around them.

You do realise this is an overtly racist comment don't you?

[Liberty4eva]

You do realise this is an overtly racist comment don't you?

Thirty years from now, I truly do wish it would be possible for you to read all of this petty crap you have been writing on here. To be called a racist or not to be called a racist does not have any effect on me because I know the situation is very grave. Your country is going to go through a race/religious war within your lifetime. The mathematics of birthrates and immigration and the history of what Muslims do to host countries once they reach a critical percentage overwhelmingly points to that outcome. Imagine what you will tell your grand kids when they ask why your generation voluntarily let in the Muslims. "We let them in to prove how virtuous and non-racist we were." It's our kids and grand kids that will have to pay the price for our stupidity.

[DemolitionRed]

Honestly, the only thing that might stop the terror is to identify the places in the UK controlled by Muslims and then build walls around them.

The only way we can stop terror is to stop participating in it.

[Alf]

The only way we can stop terror is to stop participating in it.I never have participated. When did you participate?

[Cherie]

The only way we can stop terror is to stop participating in it.

I don't think it works like that

[DemolitionRed]

Thirty years from now, I truly do wish it would be possible for you to read all of this petty crap you have been writing on here. To be called a racist or not to be called a racist does not have any effect on me because I know the situation is very grave. Your country is going to go through a race/religious war within your lifetime. The mathematics of birthrates and immigration and the history of what Muslims do to host countries once they reach a critical percentage overwhelmingly points to that outcome. Imagine what you will tell your grand kids when they ask why your generation voluntarily let in the Muslims. "We let them in to prove how virtuous and non-racist we were." It's our kids and grand kids that will have to pay the price for our stupidity.

You mean like Israel? :conf:

Muslims have suffered terribly in our hands. US-Nato wars have killed millions of them https://www.globalresearch.ca/four-million-muslims-killed-in-us-nato-wars-should-we-call-it-genocide/5470424

What I'll tell my grandchildren is, we lived in a time where the West were intent on re-empire building in foreign lands. We struck, we invaded, destroyed and pillaged and the result was, millions of Muslims fled their homes and tried to find sanctuary in the West. I'll tell them about Israel and its apartheid and how the West supported the rise of Zionism. I'll tell them about how the West sat back and did nothing when the Budhists in Burma mass slaughtered Muslims and I'll tell them about the terrorist attacks by a small number of fanatics on our own shores and the immediate surge of racial hatred towards Muslims that brought racial bigots out of every nut and cranny and how hysterical media channels and right-wing bloggers made a small number of people paranoid, fearful and hateful.

And then I'll reassure them that the majority of us have common human decency and will always defend our country and its multi-ethenic population.

[DemolitionRed]

I never have participated. When did you participate?

Is that how far your thinking goes?

[Liberty4eva]

The only way we can stop terror is to stop participating in it.

I have read this comment about a dozen times now trying to work out if this was a joke but I guess you really were serious when you wrote it. Amazing that people like you exist.

[UserSince2005]

Gonna walk over to town now to do a bit a shopping, probs go oxford street. so if you hear anything happening and i dont come back online then they got me.

[Alf]

Is that how far your thinking goes?Yes I'm afraid it is. Could you now answer my question please.

[DemolitionRed]

I have read this comment about a dozen times now trying to work out if this was a joke but I guess you really were serious when you wrote it. Amazing that people like you exist.

Then you will be disappointed to know that there's a lot of us.

[DemolitionRed]

I never have participated. When did you participate?

You know full well I was talking about the US and its alies which includes us.

Most Muslims have not participated in acts of terror but all Muslims (at least by some) are expected to take responsibility for that terror.

People in the street are not responsible for the millions of Muslim deaths but Muslim terrorists blame all of us in the West for those deaths. We have to stop supporting invasions. We have to stop the West from being terrorists in other lands because only then will we stop radicalizing the idiots.

[Brillopad]

More bombs about to be left on public transport. This time they won't fail like today

Islamic terrorism it seems

Again

That's what generations of uncensored immigration brings. - both home grown terrorism and opportunist terrorism from those 'hiding' amongst refugees and those failed asylum seekers disappearing amongst us. When will we learn!

[Brillopad]

FFS stop being a 999 alarmist. You are putting up stuff with no link. We all know about the raised terror threat but that's it.

Some idiot puts a homemade bomb on the tube, that didn’t go off properly. Probably an Islamist sympathizer but with all the clues he left behind, he should be caught in no time. I’ve just been sitting in my local bar in central London and nobody there seemed concerned. People were far more bothered about a warehouse fire stopping trains out of Euston.

And that proves what exactly - a handful of lefties convinced, or trying to convince the rest of us, any terrorist attacks are just a 'few Islamic sympathising idiots' rather than a large organised group of actual Islamic terrorists, increasing by the day, intent on bringing the West to its knees.

[Oliver_W]

People in the street are not responsible for the millions of Muslim deaths but Muslim terrorists blame all of us in the West for those deaths. We have to stop supporting invasions. We have to stop the West from being terrorists in other lands because only then will we stop radicalizing the idiots.

And how are we supposed to stop supporting invasions, when most people wish government money would be spent on better things anyway? It's no good placing any blame on the average person for 'supporting' any government, just like Homer Simpson can't claim credit for white people on the moon.

Y'know who wouldn't support foreign invasions, and who wasn't old enough to vote for parties that carry them out? The seven year old who died in the islamic attack in Manchester, as well as the other child victims.

[Cherie]

And how are we supposed to stop supporting invasions, when most people wish government money would be spent on better things anyway? It's no good placing any blame on the average person for 'supporting' any government, just like Homer Simpson can't claim credit for white people on the moon.

Y'know who wouldn't support foreign invasions, and who wasn't old enough to vote for parties that carry them out? The seven year old who died in the islamic attack in Manchester, as well as the other child victims.

Great point

[DemolitionRed]

And how are we supposed to stop supporting invasions, when most people wish government money would be spent on better things anyway? It's no good placing any blame on the average person for 'supporting' any government, just like Homer Simpson can't claim credit for white people on the moon.

Y'know who wouldn't support foreign invasions, and who wasn't old enough to vote for parties that carry them out? The seven year old who died in the islamic attack in Manchester, as well as the other child victims.

Anyone who supports the invasion of other countries to line their own pockets with that countries resources isn't someone I want to know. Fortunately, I've never come across such a person but thats all to do with the sort of people I hang out with.

As for IS supporters, they want us all to hate Muslims because it aids their cause and clearly, what they are doing works.

What I'm saying is, we can't be blind to the cause. Western governments created ISIS. Western governments have systematically turned parts of the middle east to dust and killed millions... many of them innocents. Muslim terrorists in turn, randomly kill innocent Westerners and they aren't doing it because they want us all to be Muslims, like some on here seem to think, but because they've been radicalised into believing we are all evil. People who hate Muslims are no different than the radicalized Muslims amongst us who hate westerners.

I don't support terrorism in any form and that includes our reign of terrorism on their lands and their reign of terror on ours.

[Withano]

You know full well I was talking about the US and its alies which includes us.

Most Muslims have not participated in acts of terror but all Muslims (at least by some) are expected to take responsibility for that terror.

People in the street are not responsible for the millions of Muslim deaths but Muslim terrorists blame all of us in the West for those deaths. We have to stop supporting invasions. We have to stop the West from being terrorists in other lands because only then will we stop radicalizing the idiots.

I agree. I think that would take about ten years or more though, and we're showing no signs of beginning that process.

[DemolitionRed]

And that proves what exactly - a handful of lefties convinced, or trying to convince the rest of us, any terrorist attacks are just a 'few Islamic sympathising idiots' rather than a large organised group of actual Islamic terrorists, increasing by the day, intent on bringing the West to its knees.

Left wing in central London, you have to be kidding. Believe it or not, a lot of Tory followers think like me when it comes to this hysteria on terror attacks. Like one bloke said to me last night. We have more chance of winning the national lottery than being involved in a terrorist attack.

You know what I hate? I hate the way hysterical Islamophobics seem to revel in these tragic events and use it as a source to recruit more followers. These people, just like IS want us to live in fear. Well I refuse, so on that note, I'm going out shopping to one of the busiest streets in London and I'm catching the tube to do so.

[Brillopad]

Anyone who supports the invasion of other countries to line their own pockets with that countries resources isn't someone I want to know. Fortunately, I've never come across such a person but thats all to do with the sort of people I hang out with.

As for IS supporters, they want us all to hate Muslims because it aids their cause and clearly, what they are doing works.

What I'm saying is, we can't be blind to the cause. Western governments created ISIS. Western governments have systematically turned parts of the middle east to dust and killed millions... many of them innocents. Muslim terrorists in turn, randomly kill innocent Westerners and they aren't doing it because they want us all to be Muslims, like some on here seem to think, but because they've been radicalised into believing we are all evil. People who hate Muslims are no different than the radicalized Muslims amongst us who hate westerners.

I don't support terrorism in any form and that includes our reign of terrorism on their lands and their reign of terror on ours.

There is an obvious difference between 'people who hate Muslims' - your words with the constant use of the emotive word 'hate' with deliberate intent in my opinion - and those radicalised Muslims amoungst us who hate Westerners - in that the Westerners use the ballot box to air their grievances not terrorist attacks against innocent children.

[Will.]

I take it this means we're getting armed police on the streets again? :worry:

We already have that!

It's the army they bring out when it's raised to critical.

[Oliver_W]

What I'm saying is, we can't be blind to the cause. Western governments created ISIS. Western governments have systematically turned parts of the middle east to dust and killed millions... many of them innocents. Muslim terrorists in turn, randomly kill innocent Westerners and they aren't doing it because they want us all to be Muslims, like some on here seem to think, but because they've been radicalised into believing we are all evil. People who hate Muslims are no different than the radicalized Muslims amongst us who hate westerners.
Which is why isolated muslim communities shouldn't be a thing - they don't see the real world, and therefore don't realise that the average UK citizen isn't evil, nor are they haters of all muslims. The isolationist and islam-centric lifestyles are more to blame than what happens to countries they probably don't even have any close relatives from.

[Cherie]

Left wing in central London, you have to be kidding. Believe it or not, a lot of Tory followers think like me when it comes to this hysteria on terror attacks. Like one bloke said to me last night. We have more chance of winning the national lottery than being involved in a terrorist attack.

You know what I hate? I hate the way hysterical Islamophobics seem to revel in these tragic events and use it as a source to recruit more followers. These people, just like IS want us to live in fear. Well I refuse, so on that note, I'm going out shopping to one of the busiest streets in London and I'm catching the tube to do so.

you are pulling out all the cliches today, of course most people won't change their routines for one thing it would be impossible if you work/study in London to just stop going..or using the tube, but the sad fact is the idea that being caught up in a terrorist event related act is becoming more likely than less likely would you not say, this is the 5th in about 8 months so that that alone disputes your narrative. Time to wake up, very few will change the way they live out of necessity, but to deny it is becoming more common is nonsense

[Brillopad]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/16/parsons-green-explosion-uk-terror-threat-level-critical-latest/

18 year-old arrested.

[jaxie]

[QUOTE=DemolitionRed;9622202]You know full well I was talking about the US and its alies which includes us.

Most Muslims have not participated in acts of terror but all Muslims (at least by some) are expected to take responsibility for that terror.

People in the street are not responsible for the millions of Muslim deaths but Muslim terrorists blame all of us in the West for those deaths. We have to stop supporting invasions. We have to stop the West from being terrorists in other lands because only then will we stop radicalizing the idiots.[/QUOTE

You are conveniently forgetting how it all began with an invasion of one country by another and fears that the aggressor in Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. It was discovered that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after a war and the Labour party were voted from power to the point all you Labour devotees try to pretend they were a different party. Let's not forget the vote not to intervene in Syria early in the conflict when it might have helped people being bombarded and gassed by their own government was prevented for no other reason than political one upmanship by Labour.

If you want throw around blame start with Labour and follow on with religious insanity.

[JTM45]

Y'know who wouldn't support foreign invasions, and who wasn't old enough to vote for parties that carry them out? The seven year old who died in the islamic attack in Manchester, as well as the other child victims.

I know who would support foreign invasions even less than the few children who have tragically lost their lives in terrorist attacks in the UK and that's he tens of thousands of children in the Middle-East who have lost their lives in those greed motivated foreign invasions whose deaths are rarely even acknowledged by the rest of the World.

[Oliver_W]

I know who would support foreign invasions even less than the few children who have tragically lost their lives in terrorist attacks in the UK and that's he tens of thousands of children in the Middle-East who have lost their lives in those greed motivated foreign invasions whose deaths are rarely even acknowledged by the rest of the World.

It's still stupid to use that as an excuse for people born and raised here carrying out terror attacks.

[Brillopad]

[QUOTE=DemolitionRed;9622202]You know full well I was talking about the US and its alies which includes us.

Most Muslims have not participated in acts of terror but all Muslims (at least by some) are expected to take responsibility for that terror.

People in the street are not responsible for the millions of Muslim deaths but Muslim terrorists blame all of us in the West for those deaths. We have to stop supporting invasions. We have to stop the West from being terrorists in other lands because only then will we stop radicalizing the idiots.[/QUOT

You are conveniently forgetting how it all began with an invasion of one country by another and fears that the aggressor in Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. It was discovered that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after a war and the Labour party were removed from power to the point all you Labour devotees try to pretend they were a different party. Let's not forget the vote not to intervene in Syria early in the conflict when it might have helped people being bombarded and gassed by their own government was prevented for no other reason than political one upmanship by Labour.

Excellent point.

[Cherie]

It's still stupid to use that as an excuse for people born and raised here carrying out terror attacks.

it is indeed, their parents must be in despair. Watch the State, a thoroughly researched drama about ISIS and it's influence on young some highly educated muslim's in the UK

[Toy Soldier]

Oh wow, the dumb-as-a-post xenophobia battering ram really is in full swing in this thread :joker:.

[Cherie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/09/16/parsons-green-explosion-uk-terror-threat-level-critical-latest/

18 year-old arrested.

He must have been easily identified, he would have had to get on the train at the first stop to have got a large bulky item like that in the place that he did.

[Cherie]

Oh wow, the dumb-as-a-post xenophobia battering ram really is in full swing in this thread :joker:.

quelle surprise, the usual racist jibe to direct attention away from what is actually happening :joker:

[Brillopad]

Anyone who supports the invasion of other countries to line their own pockets with that countries resources isn't someone I want to know. Fortunately, I've never come across such a person but thats all to do with the sort of people I hang out with.

As for IS supporters, they want us all to hate Muslims because it aids their cause and clearly, what they are doing works.

What I'm saying is, we can't be blind to the cause. Western governments created ISIS. Western governments have systematically turned parts of the middle east to dust and killed millions... many of them innocents. Muslim terrorists in turn, randomly kill innocent Westerners and they aren't doing it because they want us all to be Muslims, like some on here seem to think, but because they've been radicalised into believing we are all evil. People who hate Muslims are no different than the radicalized Muslims amongst us who hate westerners.

I don't support terrorism in any form and that includes our reign of terrorism on their lands and their reign of terror on ours.

http://www.e-ir.info/2015/03/09/one-war-many-reasons-the-us-invasion-of-iraq/

The above link highlights the myriad of reasons why the West invaded Iraq and 'lining their own pockets' was hardly a motive of any real significance in comparison to others. Your views on this are very much an opinion piece with no real basis other then conjecture. I'd like to see you try to dismiss this link as purely an uninformed opinion piece.

Terrorism from The Middle East hardly started purely as a result of the invasion of Iraq, it was around long before that and WAS a significant reason for the invasion. The Middle East and ISIS don't appear to need much in the way of such an excuse to hate the West as hate seems to be something they understand very well and indeed thrive on.

We see signs of that here in the West right now to a lesser degree with the over-sensitivity, and sometimes extreme reaction to any criticism of a religion by so-called moderates, i.e. that Islam should be protected from Western humour and jokes when all reglions are exposed to this - through to the more extreme control of Sharia Law and terror attacks.

[Brillopad]

You mean like Israel? :conf:

Muslims have suffered terribly in our hands. US-Nato wars have killed millions of them https://www.globalresearch.ca/four-million-muslims-killed-in-us-nato-wars-should-we-call-it-genocide/5470424

What I'll tell my grandchildren is, we lived in a time where the West were intent on re-empire building in foreign lands. We struck, we invaded, destroyed and pillaged and the result was, millions of Muslims fled their homes and tried to find sanctuary in the West. I'll tell them about Israel and its apartheid and how the West supported the rise of Zionism. I'll tell them about how the West sat back and did nothing when the Budhists in Burma mass slaughtered Muslims and I'll tell them about the terrorist attacks by a small number of fanatics on our own shores and the immediate surge of racial hatred towards Muslims that brought racial bigots out of every nut and cranny and how hysterical media channels and right-wing bloggers made a small number of people paranoid, fearful and hateful.

And then I'll reassure them that the majority of us have common human decency and will always defend our country and its multi-ethenic population.

Just a bit of 'light' left-wing indoctrination of your future grandchildren then. I hope you at least wait until they have reached adulthood, and hopefully the ability to form their own opinions, before dropping all the heavy stuff on them. :bawling:

[DemolitionRed]

[QUOTE=DemolitionRed;9622202]You know full well I was talking about the US and its alies which includes us.

Most Muslims have not participated in acts of terror but all Muslims (at least by some) are expected to take responsibility for that terror.

People in the street are not responsible for the millions of Muslim deaths but Muslim terrorists blame all of us in the West for those deaths. We have to stop supporting invasions. We have to stop the West from being terrorists in other lands because only then will we stop radicalizing the idiots.[/QUOTE

You are conveniently forgetting how it all began with an invasion of one country by another and fears that the aggressor in Iraq had weapons of mass destruction. It was discovered that there were no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq after a war and the Labour party were voted from power to the point all you Labour devotees try to pretend they were a different party. Let's not forget the vote not to intervene in Syria early in the conflict when it might have helped people being bombarded and gassed by their own government was prevented for no other reason than political one upmanship by Labour.

If you want throw around blame start with Labour and follow on with religious insanity.

I walked that anti Iraq march. I hated Blair and his warmongering politics. So what are you saying? you wouldn't be suggesting that because I'm a left wing thinker I'm happy to go along with anything the left does? Are you also saying that Blair was Left wing? He was more right wing than Thatcher, that's why he got into office. If you want to discuss just how right-wing Blair was, then I'm up for that debate.

[DemolitionRed]

Just a bit of 'light' left-wing indoctrination of your future grandchildren then. I hope you at least wait until they have reached adulthood, and hopefully the ability to form their own opinions, before dropping all the heavy stuff on them. :bawling:

Nothing wrong with the historical truth. Are you suggesting we didn't do any of these things?

[JTM45]

It's still stupid to use that as an excuse for people born and raised here carrying out terror attacks.

And with your total lack of acknowledgement of these deaths and your complete indifference and lack of empathy you reiterate my point. You talking about excusing people who commit heinous acts is ironic to say the least. :facepalm:

''Out of sight, out of mind''. Children's lives in the West matter while those in the Middle-East don't............apparently to people like yourself at least.

You consistently come across as an extremely naive, nimby xenophobe..............and that's putting it extremely mildly.

[jaxie]

And with your total lack of acknowledgement of these deaths and your complete indifference and lack of empathy you reiterate my point. You talking about excusing people who commit heinous acts is ironic to say the least. :facepalm:

''Out of sight, out of mind''. Children's lives in the West matter while those in the Middle-East don't............apparently to people like yourself at least.

You consistently come across as an extremely naive, nimby xenophobe..............and that's putting it extremely mildly.

Couldn't you also say out of sight out of mind about those who don't think nato or the west should ever intervene and should just let any nation abuse it's citizens as they see fit?

All lives matter and don't we as human beings have a duty to intervene when a government is slaughtering it's own people?

There is no win with war. None. But I'm not sure taking the attitude that it doesn't concern us is the right or compassionate thing to do.

Also name calling isn't necessary.

[Brillopad]

Couldn't you also say out of sight out of mind about those who don't think nato or the west should ever intervene should just let any nation abuse it's citizens as they see fit?

All lives matter and don't we as human beings have a duty to intervene when a government is slaughtering it's own people?

There is no win with war. None. But I'm not sure taking the attitude that it doesn't concern us is the right or compassionate thing to do.

Damned if we do and damned if we don't. :suspect:

The usual big bad West garbage.

[Oliver_W]

Children's lives in the West matter while those in the Middle-East don't............apparently to people like yourself at least.
When have I ever said that?

[jaxie]

Damned if we do and damned if we don't. :suspect:

The usual big bad West garbage.

No one wants to go to war but I find it bizarre when people scream about the big bad west causing it all and blame us all while advocating we look the other way on human rights abuse and genocide. :shrug:

[Oliver_W]

No one wants to go to war but I find it bizarre when people scream about the big bad west causing it all and blame us all while advocating we look the other way on human rights abuse and genocide. :shrug:

Getting rid of Saddam allowed ISIS to rise. I'm for a complete lack of intervention, no good ever comes of it.

[jaxie]

Getting rid of Saddam allowed ISIS to rise. I'm for a complete lack of intervention, no good ever comes of it.

It doesn't but, and I'm thinking of Syria, and recently Burma, there are real people there just trying to live their lives caught up in it all. How can we turn our backs? It's difficult.

[Brillopad]

No one wants to go to war but I find it bizarre when people scream about the big bad west causing it all and blame us all while advocating we look the other way on human rights abuse and genocide. :shrug:

Which is even more suspect when you consider it is usually those same people spouting on out about human rights, and the alleged abuse of minority groups, in The West. Even if true, which I doubt, the so-called minor 'abuse' would not in any way be comparable to the abuse going on in many Middle-Eastern countries.

So they want to SCREAM about relative minor 'abuse' on one hand but ignore major abuse/genocide on the other. Something wrong somewhere with that philosophy. :suspect:

[jaxie]

Which is even more suspect when you consider it is usually those same people spouting on out about human rights, and the alleged abuse of minority groups, in The West. Even if true, which I doubt, the so-called minor 'abuse' would not in any way be comparable to the abuse going on in many Middle-Eastern countries.

So they want to SCREAM about relative minor 'abuse' on one hand but ignore major abuse/genocide on the other. Something wrong somewhere with that philosophy. :suspect:

Not to mention accusations of xenophobia while ignoring hating on the US. :shrug:

[DemolitionRed]

They are doing an armed raid in Sunbury-on-Thames. Consider my eyebrow well and truly raised. If leafy Surrey has fallen to the terrorists we are all doomed!

[Cherie]

They are doing an armed raid in Sunbury-on-Thames. Consider my eyebrow well and truly raised. If leafy Surrey has fallen to the terrorists we are all doomed!

Like I said before some highly intelligent people are being radicalised it's not all drop outs and marginalised young men, open your eyes

[Brillopad]

Like I said before some highly intelligent people are being radicalised it's not all drop outs and marginalised young men, open your eyes

I seem to remember a doctor who killed some soldiers on an army base somwhere - went on the rampage shooting people.

[DemolitionRed]

When Saddam Hussein was gassing the curds, he was assisted by the U.S and yet, when America decided to take Saddam out, shortly after 9/11 they used his gassing of the curds as a reason to topple him. I'm not saying Saddam wasn't a criminal but he was a small criminal compared to the U.S and its allies. I'm not saying the internal conflicts in the Middle East aren't bad but they are not our conflicts or at least they weren't.

When the West want to pillage a country, they use words like, "Axis of Evil" and "For the greater good" and they tell us all that this country is threatening the peace of the world, or we have to go in, in the name of peace. Some of us call bull**** on that. Whenever I hear those formidable words, I think, here we go again. If we really wanted to curb the axis of evil we would have intervened in the South African apartheid and the mass genocide going on in Burma.

I clearly listen to alternative views, views that are only available to us through reading material and popular media. The highly respected Neom Chomskey Snowden and General Wesley Clark who was a four-star general and former supreme allied commander in Europe and who worked in the Whitehouse under President Bush, because they are privy to a lot more information than we are.

LAFHOHIiFZA

[DemolitionRed]

Like I said before some highly intelligent people are being radicalised it's not all drop outs and marginalised young men, open your eyes

Where is the proof that highly intelligent people are being radicalised?

[DemolitionRed]

I seem to remember a doctor who killed some soldiers on an army base somwhere - went on the rampage shooting people.

He was a US soldier with a Muslim name and they put his madness down to mental problems. Between 2003 and 2009, 75 troops at that base committed suicide, so it was rife with mental suffering. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-officer-goes-on-killing-spree-at-army-base-1815729.html

[arista]

FFS stop being a 999 alarmist. You are putting up stuff with no link. We all know about the raised terror threat but that's it.

Some idiot puts a homemade bomb on the tube, that didn’t go off properly. Probably an Islamist sympathizer but with all the clues he left behind, he should be caught in no time. I’ve just been sitting in my local bar in central London and nobody there seemed concerned. People were far more bothered about a warehouse fire stopping trains out of Euston.


Thats you view Madame
you are NEW to this Forum.
Its fine for you to say all that
check the latest UPDATE


I am RIGHT

you are not at my level
Respect to you DR.


Off to 3rd meeting today..............

[Cherie]

Where is the proof that highly intelligent people are being radicalised?

The Westminster attacker was a teacher for starters

[Oliver_W]

The Westminster attacker was a teacher for starters

Yeah but PE is a subject taught in schools...

[Brillopad]

http://www.politico.eu/article/teenager-arrested-in-connection-with-london-bombing-subway-train-terror-attack/

Teenager arrested.

[DemolitionRed]

The Westminster attacker was a teacher for starters

We were talking about highly intelligent people!

[Cherie]

We were talking about highly intelligent people!

Which in you esteemed opinion would be what profession exactly?

[Brillopad]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/17/parsons-green-tube-bomb-police-arrest-second-man

Second suspect arrested for attempted terrorism. Now a 21 year old as well as the 18 year old who were both refugees and been in foster care with the same family.

[Beso]

They are doing an armed raid in Sunbury-on-Thames. Consider my eyebrow well and truly raised. If leafy Surrey has fallen to the terrorists we are all doomed!

Seems like it is the white couples house who opened their doors to the refugees.


We must remember to thank nicola sturgeon for suggesting we all do that, such an insightful woman...sigh

[Beso]

FFS stop being a 999 alarmist. You are putting up stuff with no link. We all know about the raised terror threat but that's it.

Some idiot puts a homemade bomb on the tube, that didn’t go off properly. Probably an Islamist sympathizer but with all the clues he left behind, he should be caught in no time. I’ve just been sitting in my local bar in central London and nobody there seemed concerned. People were far more bothered about a warehouse fire stopping trains out of Euston.


I dont think i have ever seen such a bury your head in the sand post as this..gee whizz.

For starters it wadnt some idiot..it was well planned with several people handling the bomb on its way to its final destination...

Only thing to fail was the bomb..next time you all might choke on your pints when someone comes running into your pub screeming about the burning bodies on your local underground station.

[DemolitionRed]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2017/sep/17/parsons-green-tube-bomb-police-arrest-second-man

Second suspect arrested for attempted terrorism. Now a 21 year old as well as the 18 year old who were both refugees and been in foster care with the same family.

This is where it gets odd. Foster care for UK residents can now go on up to the age of 21 but foster care for lone child asylum seekers and those given asylums ends at 18. Are they saying these children are still in foster care?

[DemolitionRed]

Seems like it is the white couples house who opened their doors to the refugees.


We must remember to thank nicola sturgeon for suggesting we all do that, such an insightful woman...sigh

Not at all. People who foster children are salaried for doing so and believe me, its very good money. I'm not saying people just do it for the money but they are handsomely rewarded, especially if they take on a lone refugee child. And because my line of work is with refugee children, most of whom end up in children's homes and not in foster care, I can tell you without doubt, that it isn't just white people wanting to foster.

[DemolitionRed]

I dont think i have ever seen such a bury your head in the sand post as this..gee whizz.

For starters it wadnt some idiot..it was well planned with several people handling the bomb on its way to its final destination...

Only thing to fail was the bomb..next time you all might choke on your pints when someone comes running into your pub screeming about the burning bodies on your local underground station.

Well that's the difference between you and me. I refuse to live in fear. If I get blown up whilst having a drink in a pub c'est la vie!
I don't believe half the siht the media tell us. Every paper carries a different slant so what am I supposed to believe? If you want to get all hyped up, go right ahead but don't expect us all to join in the hysteria.

[Beso]

Well that's the difference between you and me. I refuse to live in fear. If I get blown up whilst having a drink in a pub c'est la vie!
I don't believe half the siht the media tell us. Every paper carries a different slant so what am I supposed to believe? If you want to get all hyped up, go right ahead but don't expect us all to join in the hysteria.

Oh i dont live in fear, but i am a lot more aware when im out.

But hey, just because the bomb didnt go off people will soon forget this...we shouldnt, this could have been the most deadly and barbaric death causing one yet if it had all went to plan....you should not dismiss it so easily...very foolish.

[Brillopad]

This is where it gets odd. Foster care for UK residents can now go on up to the age of 21 but foster care for lone child asylum seekers and those given asylums ends at 18. Are they saying these children are still in foster care?

I'm not sure, but I think they were in foster care with them, maybe the 21 year-old, at least, was one of the many posing as child refugees which we were mug enough to buy into. The crux of the story though is how this country takes them in, gives them a safe place to live and how do they react - they try to kill as many of their people as they can.

I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for them after such a cold blooded act. They should be locked up for the protection of our children.

[Beso]

I'm not sure, but I think they were in foster care with them. The crux of the story though is how this country takes them in, gives them a safe place to live and how do they react - they try to kill as many of their people as they can.

I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for them after such a cold blooded act. They should be locked up for the protection of our children.

Who should be locked up?...the fosterers?

[Brillopad]

Who should be locked up?...the fosterers?

No, the two terrorists. I know some people will try to defend/excuse their actions because of their backgrounds but, at the end of the day, the safety of our children should be our main concern.

[Beso]

No, the two terrorists. I know some people will try to defend/excuse their actions because of their backgrounds but, at the end of the day, the safety of our children should be our main concern.

Oh thank **** for that.....


The terrorists need tortured for info imo.

[DemolitionRed]

No, the two terrorists. I know some people will try to defend/excuse their actions because of their backgrounds but, at the end of the day, the safety of our children should be our main concern.

Nobody is trying to defend their actions. I defend the peaceful refugees, not the ones that get radicalized and go on to commit terrorist acts.

[Oliver_W]

Oh thank **** for that.....


The terrorists need tortured for info imo.

Calm down. No-one should be tortured, I wouldn't be against waterboarding though

[DemolitionRed]

Calm down. No-one should be tortured, I wouldn't be against waterboarding though

You want to try waterboarding... seriously?

[Oliver_W]

You want to try waterboarding... seriously?

I don't want it to happen, but I wouldn't mind if it did, as long is it got information.

[Cherie]

Interesting that it was suggested jihadi's would come in posing as refugees and it was dismissed as media hysteria. The horrible part about this is that the UK took from refugee camps where they were allegedly genuine refugees

[Oliver_W]

Interesting that it was suggested jihadi's would come in posing as refugees and it was dismissed as media hysteria. The horrible part about this is that the UK took from refugee camps where they were allegedly genuine refugees

Who would have guessed bringing in fighting age men from parts of the world rife with indoctrination and extremism might lead to bad things.

[Rob!]

I don't know if it's been mentioned because I can't be bothered trawling through the bickering, but we're back down to severe now

[arista]

I don't know if it's been mentioned because I can't be bothered trawling through the bickering, but we're back down to severe now

Yes Rob
let it all HANG OUT ...........

[arista]

You want to try waterboarding... seriously?


Might be the S&M
version...............

[Cherie]

I don't know if it's been mentioned because I can't be bothered trawling through the bickering, but we're back down to severe now

I really don't think it matters much what level we are on, what level were we on when it happened, probably severe, lets face it nothing happens when we are at critical :idc:

[DemolitionRed]

I'm not sure, but I think they were in foster care with them, maybe the 21 year-old, at least, was one of the many posing as child refugees which we were mug enough to buy into. The crux of the story though is how this country takes them in, gives them a safe place to live and how do they react - they try to kill as many of their people as they can.

I'm sorry but I have no sympathy for them after such a cold blooded act. They should be locked up for the protection of our children.

There is a whole system in place to try and work out the real age of a child refugee. Middle Eastern boys often have facial hair from fourteen onwards and tend to look older than their European cousins. When investigations are done to find the real age of a suspected adult, its done by experts who use critical observations. Sometimes someone slips through the net but that net is fairly well woven so its unlikely many get through.

What we mustn't do is fall into a trap of believing all refugee children are suspects. The majority of these kids are going to grow up to be decent human beings. The ones that don't, deserve all they get. Nobody is sympathizing with people who cheated the system to launch a terror campaign.

As for protecting our children; let's not use our kids as an emotional pawn. When it comes to terrorism, no life lost is any less valuable than another. It matters not if you are young, old, British or foreign. We all need protection from terrorism.

[DemolitionRed]

Interesting that it was suggested jihadi's would come in posing as refugees and it was dismissed as media hysteria. The horrible part about this is that the UK took from refugee camps where they were allegedly genuine refugees

I love the way you read into things that aren't really there.

[waterhog]

not reassured by the intelligence - they are clueless ! up and down like a yoyo

[JTM45]

Calm down. No-one should be tortured, I wouldn't be against waterboarding though

Wow!!!!:rolleyes: And what exactly would you class 'waterboarding' as then ? It's ****ing TORTURE!!!!


I don't want it to happen, but I wouldn't mind if it did, as long is it got information.

Yeah, torture got lots of information during the Iraq debacle at the Black Sites, the vast majority of it false. People will say anything to stop being tortured (especially the innocent ones detained in error).........mad isn't it. :facepalm:
With an attitude like that let's hope you find yourself on the receiving end of torture one day so you can appreciate what a truly sub-human, barbaric thing it is. Have you not heard of the Geneva Convention ? Maybe you should look at the work Amnesty International do in support of Human Rights throughout the World. Educate yourself a bit why don't you.

I think these are probably your most ridiculous posts yet. You're the sort of person that decent, caring people are ashamed of.


The terrorists need tortured for info imo.

How can we 'claim' to be more humain in the West if we resort to the same tactics as ''the terrorists'' ? Makes you as bad as them..........imo.

[Toy Soldier]

"I'm against torture but waterboarding is OK"

TiBB 2017 ladies and gentlemen; a subtle blend of barbarity and mildly amusing stupidity.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If torturing people was very successful its an option but I seem to remember its a crap way to get intel. I think it would be better not to welcome in say middle aged child migrants with open arms or indeed any economic migrant. Maybe try and run immigration logically and not emotionally?

[Brillopad]

Wow!!!!:rolleyes: And what exactly would you class 'waterboarding' as then ? It's ****ing TORTURE!!!!




Yeah, torture got lots of information during the Iraq debacle at the Black Sites, the vast majority of it false. People will say anything to stop being tortured (especially the innocent ones detained in error).........mad isn't it. :facepalm:
With an attitude like that let's hope you find yourself on the receiving end of torture one day so you can appreciate what a truly sub-human, barbaric thing it is. Have you not heard of the Geneva Convention ? Maybe you should look at the work Amnesty International do in support of Human Rights throughout the World. Educate yourself a bit why don't you.

I think these are probably your most ridiculous posts yet. You're the sort of person that decent, caring people are ashamed of.



How can we 'claim' to be more humain in the West if we resort to the same tactics as ''the terrorists'' ? Makes you as bad as them..........imo.

Is that what you seek - approval - for being more humane than others.

Personally I don't consider letting masses of people in, some of which are likely to be terrorists and will end up killing people, to be very humane. I read an estimate of about 10,000 terrorists getting into Europe posing as refuges - they can kill and maim a lot of people.

Most of the 'refuges' aren't even genuine refuges, but economic migrants. We are risking the lives of our children to give people from other countries a better life. Not a price worth paying in my book.

Do you just cross your fingers and pray it won't be you or yours who are called upon to make such a sacrifice? As long as it is someone else. To me that is putting your principles before that of the lives of others and playing with other peoples' lives.

[Rob!]

I really don't think it matters much what level we are on, what level were we on when it happened, probably severe, lets face it nothing happens when we are at critical :idc:

Very true. Yeah it was severe. And we've been at severe for about five years now I think with the occasional rise to critical after an attack.

[JTM45]

Is that what you seek - approval - for being more humane than others.

What the **** are you on about ? Where did i say that ? Where did i even mention anything about immigrants ? Oh no, that's right.....I Didn't.:bored: Just you using your corkscrew 'logic' again to twist someone's point. Nothing new there then.

I would like to think that i treat my fellow human beings as humanely as is possible and i will always help a person if i possibly can, regardless of who they are, whether i know them, where they're from or what Nationality they are, but ''seeking approval'' is the last thing on my mind. It's just the right thing to do, imo, unlike torturing people.
You're the only one who's mentioned ''seeking approval'' so that's obviously the way you think but please don't tar me with the same brush. That's not what i'm about. I've never sought, expected or wanted ''approval'' for anything i've done in my life.

[Toy Soldier]

What the **** are you on about ? Where did i say that ? Oh no, that right.....I Didn't.:bored: Just you using your corkscrew 'logic' again to twist someone's point. Nothing new there then.

I would like to think that i treat my fellow human beings as humanely as is possible and i will always help a person if i possibly can, regardless of whether i know them, where they're from or what Nationality they are, but ''seeking approval'' is the last thing on my mind. It's just the right thing to do, imo, unlike torturing people.
You're the only one who's mentioned ''seeking approval'' so that's obviously the way you think but please don't tar me with the same brush. That's not what i'm about.

We're supposed to buy the rhetoric that being ruthless and bigoted is to be considered "pragmatic and necessary" and, therefore, presumably, "moral".

"I don't seek anyone's approval... I don't care what people think about me... I support us doing whatever needs to be done no matter what the cost, to save the lives of British Babies. You don't because you only love Muslim babies, you hate British babies and fish and chips and the queen."

That's more or less what I read every time I come into a thread these days :think:.

[JTM45]

We're supposed to buy the rhetoric that being ruthless and bigoted is to be considered "pragmatic and necessary" and, therefore, presumably, "moral".

"I don't seek anyone's approval... I don't care what people think about me... I support us doing whatever needs to be done no matter what the cost, to save the lives of British Babies. You don't because you only love Muslim babies, you hate British babies and fish and chips and the queen."

That's more or less what I read every time I come into a thread these days :think:.

Spot on TS!!!
And it's this kind of rhetoric that is largely responsible for what's going on now. Blocking out the rest of the World (or the 'undesirable' types, as these people like to see them) is clearly not going to fix anything, just create more of a divide and more hostility, here and abroad.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Spot on TS!!!
And it's this kind of rhetoric that is largely responsible for what's going on now. Blocking out the rest of the World (or the 'undesirable' types, as these people like to see them) is clearly not going to fix anything, just create more of a divide and more hostility, here and abroad.

yeah, lets all get on like they do in say the middle east, asia or africa

bloody britain and their terrible ways



:fist:

[Toy Soldier]

yeah, lets all get on like they do in say the middle east, asia or africa

bloody britain and their terrible ways



:fist:"Everyone is bad so why should we be any better"

?

Very ruthless and pragmatic of you, LT ;)

[JTM45]

yeah, lets all get on like they do in say the middle east, asia or africa

bloody britain and their terrible ways



:fist:

So we should follow their example then ? We (the West) have had a lot to do with prolonging, agitating and even causing many of the problems in those countries.

The people of Britain, on the whole, are good people and i'd prefer it to stay that way and not get all ignorant, ill-willed and right-wing.

[DemolitionRed]

Is that what you seek - approval - for being more humane than others.

Personally I don't consider letting masses of people in, some of which are likely to be terrorists and will end up killing people, to be very humane. I read an estimate of about 10,000 terrorists getting into Europe posing as refuges - they can kill and maim a lot of people.

Most of the 'refuges' aren't even genuine refuges, but economic migrants. We are risking the lives of our children to give people from other countries a better life. Not a price worth paying in my book.

Do you just cross your fingers and pray it won't be you or yours who are called upon to make such a sacrifice? As long as it is someone else. To me that is putting your principles before that of the lives of others and playing with other peoples' lives.

You really are frightened aren't you?

I tell you what I warn my kids about. I warn them about speeding drivers and the inconsiderate bastards who drive whilst using their mobile phones. Only yesterday my friends little Italian Greyhound was killed whilst walking, on a leash and on the pavement, by a careless driver. I warn them about drunken gangs looking for fights. One's already had an awful experience with that. I warn them about remaining calm when they cycle through London and some pilock who doesn't like cyclists tries to run them off the road. Two of my sons have had that happen to them. I warn them about not carrying their wallets in their back pocket or purse in a backpack.

Whilst my kids know to stay away from and report suspicious packages, the last thing on my mind when they go out is terrorists getting to them. I refuse to make them suspicious of everyone because the chances of them getting killed by a car, a driver with road rage or a drunken thug is far higher than being killed by a terrorist.

[JTM45]

The really important things and the things that are far more likely to be a danger to them then TS, and the things that will be of real use to them in everyday life in the UK. You sound like a great parent.

Imagine bringing your kids up with an unrealistic, exaggerated and obsessive fear of terrorism and to fear people who aren't like you. Just sad.

[Brillopad]

So we should follow their example then ? We (the West) have had a lot to do with prolonging, agitating and even causing many of the problems in those countries.

The people of Britain, on the whole, are good people and i'd prefer it to stay that way and not get all ignorant, ill-willed and right-wing.

Many of the ill-willed left wing are more right wing than the right wing.

[Beso]

Wow!!!!:rolleyes: And what exactly would you class 'waterboarding' as then ? It's ****ing TORTURE!!!!




Yeah, torture got lots of information during the Iraq debacle at the Black Sites, the vast majority of it false. People will say anything to stop being tortured (especially the innocent ones detained in error).........mad isn't it. :facepalm:
With an attitude like that let's hope you find yourself on the receiving end of torture one day so you can appreciate what a truly sub-human, barbaric thing it is. Have you not heard of the Geneva Convention ? Maybe you should look at the work Amnesty International do in support of Human Rights throughout the World. Educate yourself a bit why don't you.

I think these are probably your most ridiculous posts yet. You're the sort of person that decent, caring people are ashamed of.



How can we 'claim' to be more humain in the West if we resort to the same tactics as ''the terrorists'' ? Makes you as bad as them..........imo.

**** them...they are lower than pedos in my book...at least pedos can claim illness..torture the **** out the scumbag...he wanted to burn a tube carraige passengers to death.....you sympathise all you want...whilst more planning goes on....me and mi5 will thank those men who gather the info that saves lives of british citizens whilst you cry into your wine glass about the poor wittle tewowists.

[Brillopad]

You really are frightened aren't you?

I tell you what I warn my kids about. I warn them about speeding drivers and the inconsiderate bastards who drive whilst using their mobile phones. Only yesterday my friends little Italian Greyhound was killed whilst walking, on a leash and on the pavement, by a careless driver. I warn them about drunken gangs looking for fights. One's already had an awful experience with that. I warn them about remaining calm when they cycle through London and some pilock who doesn't like cyclists tries to run them off the road. Two of my sons have had that happen to them. I warn them about not carrying their wallets in their back pocket or purse in a backpack.

Whilst my kids know to stay away from and report suspicious packages, the last thing on my mind when they go out is terrorists getting to them. I refuse to make them suspicious of everyone because the chances of them getting killed by a car, a driver with road rage or a drunken thug is far higher than being killed by a terrorist.

Lets just accept adding another risk to the list then. In for a penny in for a pound. Tell that to the families of the thousands across Europe you have lost loved ones to Islamic terrorists.

Sounds to me that you make them suspicious of a lot of things. Everything but the biggest menace to our country in decades - Islamic terrorists. Each to their own.

[Brillopad]

The really important things and the things that are far more likely to be a danger to them then TS, and the things that will be of real use to them in everyday life in the UK. You sound like a great parent.

Imagine bringing your kids up with an unrealistic, exaggerated and obsessive fear of terrorism and to fear people who aren't like you. Just sad.

You missed the point entirely and as usual put words in people's mouths to present your interpretation of their words as fact.

You may see the loss of British lives in Britain at the hands of Islamic terrorists as 'collateral damage' I don't. I see it as something that can be reduced if we are more careful about who we let into our country.

That does not mean 'whites only' your implied words, not mine - but people whose backgrounds can be checked and verified as posing no significant risk to our people. People who have skills to offer to our country to help make it prosper. Not anybody who forces their way into our country under false pretences.

[DemolitionRed]

Lets just accept adding another risk to the list then. In for a penny in for a pound. Tell that to the families of the thousands across Europe you have lost loved ones to Islamic terrorists.

Sounds to me that you make them suspicious of a lot of things. Everything but the biggest menace to our country in decades - Islamic terrorists. Each to their own.

So warning your kids about the danger of speeding cars and rowdy drunks is to make them suspicious...REALLY? Was that a last-ditch attempt to have the last word? You know the other thing I did? I told my kids to watch out for lurking men around playgrounds and I showed them how to cross the road and the dangers of not looking left, right and left again. I had no idea that in some peoples eyes, that made me a bad parent!

I'm bored of you now... so I'll leave you to have that last word.

[Crimson Dynamo]

You really are frightened aren't you?

I tell you what I warn my kids about. I warn them about speeding drivers and the inconsiderate bastards who drive whilst using their mobile phones. Only yesterday my friends little Italian Greyhound was killed whilst walking, on a leash and on the pavement, by a careless driver. I warn them about drunken gangs looking for fights. One's already had an awful experience with that. I warn them about remaining calm when they cycle through London and some pilock who doesn't like cyclists tries to run them off the road. Two of my sons have had that happen to them. I warn them about not carrying their wallets in their back pocket or purse in a backpack.

Whilst my kids know to stay away from and report suspicious packages, the last thing on my mind when they go out is terrorists getting to them. I refuse to make them suspicious of everyone because the chances of them getting killed by a car, a driver with road rage or a drunken thug is far higher than being killed by a terrorist.

"I refuse to make them suspicious of everyone "

"because the chances of them getting killed by a car, a driver with road rage or a drunken thug"

so basically watch out for everyone everyone

:rolleyes:

[Alf]

What the **** are you on about ? Where did i say that ? Where did i even mention anything about immigrants ? Oh no, that's right.....I Didn't.:bored: Just you using your corkscrew 'logic' again to twist someone's point. Nothing new there then.

I would like to think that i treat my fellow human beings as humanely as is possible and i will always help a person if i possibly can, regardless of who they are, whether i know them, where they're from or what Nationality they are, but ''seeking approval'' is the last thing on my mind. It's just the right thing to do, imo, unlike torturing people.
You're the only one who's mentioned ''seeking approval'' so that's obviously the way you think but please don't tar me with the same brush. That's not what i'm about. I've never sought, expected or wanted ''approval'' for anything i've done in my life.Check out post 99 of this thread where you said to Oliver "Lets hope that you find yourself on the receiving end of torture one day"

[Cherie]

"I refuse to make them suspicious of everyone "

"because the chances of them getting killed by a car, a driver with road rage or a drunken thug"

so basically watch out for everyone everyone

:rolleyes:

:hee:

it aways happens to you,or your friends doesn't it DM, I have walked my dog for the last 10 years in London, never an issue with a driver on the pavement, funny that you would tell your kids to watch out for speeding cars on the pavement but not possibly being killed in a fireball on the tube :umm2:

[Cherie]

You really are frightened aren't you?

I tell you what I warn my kids about. I warn them about speeding drivers and the inconsiderate bastards who drive whilst using their mobile phones. Only yesterday my friends little Italian Greyhound was killed whilst walking, on a leash and on the pavement, by a careless driver. I warn them about drunken gangs looking for fights. One's already had an awful experience with that. I warn them about remaining calm when they cycle through London and some pilock who doesn't like cyclists tries to run them off the road. Two of my sons have had that happen to them. I warn them about not carrying their wallets in their back pocket or purse in a backpack.

Whilst my kids know to stay away from and report suspicious packages, the last thing on my mind when they go out is terrorists getting to them. I refuse to make them suspicious of everyone because the chances of them getting killed by a car, a driver with road rage or a drunken thug is far higher than being killed by a terrorist.


No just realistic..

[DemolitionRed]

:hee:

it aways happens to you,or your friends doesn't it DM, I have walked my dog for the last 10 years in London, never an issue with a driver on the pavement, funny that you would tell your kids to watch out for speeding cars on the pavement but not possibly being killed in a fireball on the tube :umm2:

Go and have a word with yourself woman. What you are doing here is quite blatantly accusing me of lying. Un****ing believable.

[JTM45]

Check out post 99 of this thread where you said to Oliver "Lets hope that you find yourself on the receiving end of torture one day"

It was relevant in the context which i posted it. Do you really believe that i'd like anyone to be tortured (which you'd know that i clearly wouldn't if you'd have taken any notice of the rest of the post and the other posts posted 'in context' with it.) ?

But hey..........if plucking one small bit out of my post and quoting it out of context makes you feel like you're making an actual point and being somewhat relevant to the topic then who am i to stop you. Anyone with half a brain can see it for what it is.
If i could be bothered and i wanted to be a petty desperado i could go and take parts of sentences from your posts and post them out of context but it's not even necessary. You do the job yourself. I wouldn't even have to take stuff out of context with your posts.

[JTM45]

No just realistic..
If you look at the evidence and statistics then it clearly isn't ''realistic''.

:hee:

it aways happens to you,or your friends doesn't it DM, I have walked my dog for the last 10 years in London, never an issue with a driver on the pavement, funny that you would tell your kids to watch out for speeding cars on the pavement but not possibly being killed in a fireball on the tube :umm2:

Why wouldn't you want to warn your kids about the thing that's thousands of times more likely to be a serious danger to them ? In 2015 over 25,000 people were killed or seriously injured in road accidents. Between 2010 and 2017 49 people died as a result of terrorism.
Terrorist deaths in the UK have been lower in recent years then they were all through the 70's and 80's.

[Alf]

It was relevant in the context which i posted it. Do you really believe that i'd like anyone to be tortured (which you'd know that i clearly wouldn't if you'd have taken any notice of the rest of the post and the other posts posted 'in context' with it.)

But hey..........if plucking one small bit out of my post and qouting it out of context makes you feel like you're making an actual point and being somewhat relevant to the topic then who am i to stop you. Anyone with half a brain can see it for what it is.
If i could be bothered and i wanted to be a petty desperado i could go and take parts of sentences from your posts and post them out of context but it's not even necessary. You do the job yourself. I wouldn't even have to take stuff out of context with your posts.:laugh: You got busted.

[JTM45]

:laugh: You got busted.

How exactly ?:laugh:

You, yet again, made yourself look petty and ridiculous and had your lazy attempt at a dig squashed and its me who got ''busted'' ? Alternative reality ?
How can i even compete with such a superior intellect ? :laugh3:

[Withano]

Many of the ill-willed left wing are more right wing than the right wing.

https://media.tenor.com/images/fb3f2d1e814190100a4ae401b1660d5b/tenor.gif

[Brillopad]

How exactly ?:laugh:

You, yet again, made yourself look petty and ridiculous and had your lazy attempt at a dig squashed and its me who got ''busted'' ? Alternative reality ?
How can i even compete with such a superior intellect ? :laugh3:

Why do you refuse to accept the increasing risk Islamic terrorists pose to the Western world? Are you blind? Are you walking around with your eyes screwed up and your hands over your ears as that is the impression you give.

ISIS are causing significant problems across the globe. We are clearly not talking about a few random idiots but a large organized group of religious zealots scattered throughout the Middle-East and, thanks to our own stupidity, across the West. They are a serious bunch of organized fanatical idiots intent on bringing us down. Jealous of the economical success we have created for ourselves. Instead of doing the same they direct their energies elsewhere and focus on hate and destruction instead. A strong indication why they will never be successful in a way that counts due to a lack of basic understanding and skewered priorities. Hate is their priority. To imply the risk they pose is insignificant is beyond naive and downright stupid in my opinion.

These young idiots are performing monkeys doing the bidding of other fanatical religious zealots further up the food chain. Thing is there are plenty such disposable idiots prepared to offer themselves up as performing monkeys in the deluded belief there will some kind of 'respect' for them in this world or an even bigger reward for them in the next. If you don't see that that kind of thinking poses a significant risk what can I or anyone say!

[Cherie]

If you look at the evidence and statistics then it clearly isn't ''realistic''.



Why wouldn't you want to warn your kids about the thing that's thousands of times more likely to be a serious danger to them ? In 2015 over 25,000 people were killed or seriously injured in road accidents. Between 2010 and 2017 49 people died as a result of terrorism.
Terrorist deaths in the UK have been lower in recent years then they were all through the 70's and 80's.

So 49 families are grieving but you dismiss that because the number is smaller, do people grieve less or something ? If my son travels up london by tube of course I tell him to take care, just the same as if he is driving somewhere I tell him to take care I don't pick and choose because it's less likely, it's less likely someone's dog gets hit by a car on the pavement it still happens apparently

[Vanessa]

I feel a little bit better knowing that they got the people responsible for Parsons Green bomb. But I'm still nervous everytime I take the tube :worry:

[DemolitionRed]

I know ISIS are bad. I know that some Muslims are being radicalized. I know that people have been injured and killed on our own shores. I know I have no power to have an effect on the situation, therefore, I can only go about my business normally.

[JTM45]

So 49 families are grieving but you dismiss that because the number is smaller, do people grieve less or something ? If my son travels up london by tube of course I tell him to take care, just the same as if he is driving somewhere I tell him to take care I don't pick and choose because it's less likely, it's less likely someone's dog gets hit by a car on the pavement it still happens apparently


I CLEARLY wasn't dismissing it and explained that in detail. Far more detail than you and your alarmist pals ever explain anything. You should assess what's more of a risk to your kids and prioritize that, especially when the risk is exponentially greater.
It's all about context and at the end of the day the main concern should be for the safety of your family, yourself and then the general public.
People just wallow in the exaggerated perception of the level of threat as an excuse to push their racist/xenophobic agenda. It's exactly what Trump and the Replucans tried to do in the US and look how that worked out for them. Badly. His/their days are numbered and their attempt to use fear as a divider has failed on every level, thankfully.
The figures of injuries and deaths are there for everyone to see and i've never dismissed them. Every death is one death too many. I just think people should stop exaggerating and being un-warranted alarmists.

[Cherie]

I know ISIS are bad. I know that some Muslims are being radicalized. I know that people have been injured and killed on our own shores. I know I have no power to have an effect on the situation, therefore, I can only go about my business normally.

yes of course, but surely anyone with any sense would be a little bit more on the alert even while going about your business normally, pretty much like back in the 80s when no one pussyfooted around with the IRA...yes we when about our business but were on alert...?

[Cherie]

I CLEARLY wasn't dismissing it and explained that in detail. Far more detail than you and your alarmist pals ever explain anything. You should assess what's more of a risk to your kids and prioritize that, especially when the risk is exponentially greater.
It's all about context and at the end of the day the main concern should be for the safety of your family, yourself and then the general public.
People just wallow in the exaggerated perception of the level of threat as an excuse to push their racist/xenophobic agenda. It's exactly what Trump and the Replucans tried to do in the US and look how that worked out for them. Badly. His/their days are numbered and their attempt to use fear as a divider has failed on every level, thankfully.
The figures of injuries and deaths are there for everyone to see and i've never dismissed them. Every death is one death too many. I just think people should stop exaggerating and being un-warranted alarmists.


No I am sorry, not wallowing in anything, I'm Irish so I am fully aware how all Irish people were all treated by some when the IRA were on their bombing campaign, the majority just like now knew that it was a small faction, did the Irish bleat and moan about it, no we didn't we just got on with it and dismissed the small number of people who would tar us all with the same brush as idiots, I'm sure most muslims do the same, they don't need you or anyone else to fight their corner, its a bit patronising if nothing else. The government raised the threat level to critical, I didn't... should I ignore government advice? its not alarmist it is the reality....I haven't changed my routine, I still fly, I still travel, I still get on the tube...but being a bit aware might just save my life or a member of my families life rather than walking around whistling...

[Crimson Dynamo]

I CLEARLY wasn't dismissing it and explained that in detail. Far more detail than you and your alarmist pals ever explain anything. You should assess what's more of a risk to your kids and prioritize that, especially when the risk is exponentially greater.
It's all about context and at the end of the day the main concern should be for the safety of your family, yourself and then the general public.
People just wallow in the exaggerated perception of the level of threat as an excuse to push their racist/xenophobic agenda. It's exactly what Trump and the Replucans tried to do in the US and look how that worked out for them. Badly. His/their days are numbered and their attempt to use fear as a divider has failed on every level, thankfully.
The figures of injuries and deaths are there for everyone to see and i've never dismissed them. Every death is one death too many. I just think people should stop exaggerating and being un-warranted alarmists.

"People just wallow in the exaggerated perception of the level of threat as an excuse to push their racist/xenophobic agenda."

really, can you explain how you know this?

[bots]

It does no harm for people to be generally more alert. It's when wandering around with our heads in the clouds that most accidents happen. In crowded cities, people should be alert to what's going on around them.

On the subject of threat levels, from a risk to personal safety, there is next to no difference between severe and critical. At severe it is still very likely that a terrorist event could occur, and we have been at severe for a long time now. Critical is more a logistics issue than anything else. Yes, there are more armed police on the streets at that time, but that doesn't mean an event won't occur because of their presence.

[jaxie]

I CLEARLY wasn't dismissing it and explained that in detail. Far more detail than you and your alarmist pals ever explain anything. You should assess what's more of a risk to your kids and prioritize that, especially when the risk is exponentially greater.
It's all about context and at the end of the day the main concern should be for the safety of your family, yourself and then the general public.
People just wallow in the exaggerated perception of the level of threat as an excuse to push their racist/xenophobic agenda. It's exactly what Trump and the Replucans tried to do in the US and look how that worked out for them. Badly. His/their days are numbered and their attempt to use fear as a divider has failed on every level, thankfully.
The figures of injuries and deaths are there for everyone to see and i've never dismissed them. Every death is one death too many. I just think people should stop exaggerating and being un-warranted alarmists.

You don't feel you are being a tad 'unwarranted alarmist', to quote you, about Trump?

Any terrorism threat should be taken seriously, only a fool isn't aware, but people have to carry on their lives as normal. It's very easy to throw about words when you are far away from the event, it's a lot different when a member of your family is the one covered in blood. No one with a lick of sense sends their loved ones out without urging them to be careful and vigilant of all dangers. It's what parents do. Like in the 80s you warn them to be careful of unattended packages or bags.

Stop accusing tibb members who don't agree with you of being racists and xenophobic, pulling that card constantly to accuse others implies a weak argument and a need to lash out. No one is calling you names.

[Cherie]

It does no harm for people to be generally more alert. It's when wandering around with our heads in the clouds that most accidents happen. In crowded cities, people should be alert to what's going on around them.

On the subject of threat levels, from a risk to personal safety, there is next to no difference between severe and critical. At severe it is still very likely that a terrorist event could occur, and we have been at severe for a long time now. Critical is more a logistics issue than anything else. Yes, there are more armed police on the streets at that time, but that doesn't mean an event won't occur because of their presence.

I agree the threat level is pretty useless really

[Cherie]

You don't feel you are being a tad 'unwarranted alarmist', to quote you, about Trump?

Any terrorism threat should be taken seriously, only a fool isn't aware, but people have to carry on their lives as normal. It's very easy to throw about words when you are far away from the event, it's a lot different when a member of your family is the one covered in blood. No one with a lick of sense sends their loved ones out without urging them to be careful and vigilant of all dangers. It's what parents do. Like in the 80s you warn them to be careful of unattended packages or bags.

Stop accusing tibb members who don't agree with you of being racists and xenophobic, pulling that card constantly to accuse others implies a weak argument and a need to lash out. No one is calling you names.



its the go to defence isn't it. This time last year we were all sat around delighted with our intelligence and the fact that there had been no mass terrorist attacks in the UK, a year later, here we are, would it kill people to say ...actually yeah there has been a shift in our safety, nothing that will stop us going about our daily business, WWII didn't stop that. but just enough to be a bit more on your guard as you would be if walking late at night in a deserted street, does that make me racist I don't think so!

[JTM45]

Stop accusing tibb members who don't agree with you of being racists and xenophobic,

It's nothing to do with people not agreeing with me. Variety is the spice of life and without differing opinions there would be nothing to discuss. It's about people clinging on to anything and everything in an attempt to paint anyone who isn't the same as them as ''bad''.

[Cherie]

It's nothing to do with people not agreeing with me. Variety is the spice of life and without differing opinions there would be nothing to discuss. It's about people clinging on to anything and everything in an attempt to paint anyone who isn't the same as them as ''bad''.

in all honesty you are the one doing that, you have decided that anyone who acknowledges the threat of terrorism is a racist rather than a realist

[jaxie]

in all honesty you are the one doing that, you have decided that anyone who acknowledges the threat of terrorism is a racist rather than a realist

::clap1: Good post!

[Kizzy]

[/B]

its the go to defence isn't it. This time last year we were all sat around delighted with our intelligence and the fact that there had been no mass terrorist attacks in the UK, a year later, here we are, would it kill people to say ...actually yeah there has been a shift in our safety, nothing that will stop us going about our daily business, WWII didn't stop that. but just enough to be a bit more on your guard as you would be if walking late at night in a deserted street, does that make me racist I don't think so!

It isn't a 'go to' defence, there have been home grown terrorists here for many years as well as radicalised individuals the 7/7 bombers for instance.

The increase in attacks is due to the increase imo of situations in areas of conflict,coupled with the attitudinal shift that has been occurring in the UK with specific regard to the appalling reactions to the plight of refugees.

The reason that people are being accused of racism and xenophobia is because they are saying racist and xenophobic things, it is becoming increasingly normalised to see these comments passed off as 'free speech', when all it is in fact is media manipulation, fear and ignorance.

[Cherie]

It isn't a 'go to' defence, there have been home grown terrorists here for many years as well as radicalised individuals the 7/7 bombers for instance.

The increase in attacks is due to the increase imo of situations in areas of conflict,coupled with the attitudinal shift that has been occurring in the UK with specific regard to the appalling reactions to the plight of refugees.

The reason that people are being accused of racism and xenophobia is because they are saying racist and xenophobic things, it is becoming increasingly normalised to see these comments passed off as 'free speech', when all it is in fact is media manipulation, fear and ignorance.

show me one of my posts where I have been xenophobic or racist? you will have a job, yet it doesn't stop me being called both, but carry on defending the members doing it, it shows you really are not capable of rational unbiased thought!

[Kizzy]

what ignorance is this? you love to name call, frankly I have no idea why you haven't been on the ban list, the number of times I have seen you be openly abusive to members, but then those with a certain leaning seem get a free ride on here.

If you can't debate then why enter one being accused of being ignorant to the facts is part and parcel of debate. It's not 'name calling', and the member isn't being 'abusive' for suggesting it.

[Kizzy]

show me one of my posts where I have been xenophobic or racist? you will have a job, yet it doesn't stop me being called both, but carry on defending the members doing it, it shows you really are not capable of rational unbiased thought!

Where did I suggest you had been?... :/

You suggested it was a 'go to' response for some ( apparently the members with a certain 'leaning')

That is unfair and untrue, in turn you have taken it upon yourself to defend members whose comments can and are considered xenophobic and/or racist.
Mine is maybe due to my 'leaning'....what's your excuse?...

[Beso]

I know ISIS are bad. I know that some Muslims are being radicalized. I know that people have been injured and killed on our own shores. I know I have no power to have an effect on the situation, therefore, I can only go about my business normally.

Or demonstrate and petition...thats what ive started to do

[Brillopad]

It isn't a 'go to' defence, there have been home grown terrorists here for many years as well as radicalised individuals the 7/7 bombers for instance.

The increase in attacks is due to the increase imo of situations in areas of conflict,coupled with the attitudinal shift that has been occurring in the UK with specific regard to the appalling reactions to the plight of refugees.

The reason that people are being accused of racism and xenophobia is because they are saying racist and xenophobic things, it is becoming increasingly normalised to see these comments passed off as 'free speech', when all it is in fact is media manipulation, fear and ignorance.

Pompous post. Always blame everyone but the actual terrorists - It's the fault of the potential victim's attitudes especially if those being shot, stabbed or blown to kingdom come voted for Brexit or don't want thousands of unchecked economic migrants forcing their way on to their shores.

Wake up this is an issue all over Europe and the West not just in Britain. Everyone has had enough and don't want to take any more refuges/economic migrants whatever YOU choose to call them because of all the problems it causes.

Personally I think that those so keen to force all these unchecked people, some of which we know are terrorists, on the rest of the country are indirectly responsible for the carnage they cause.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It isn't a 'go to' defence, there have been home grown terrorists here for many years as well as radicalised individuals the 7/7 bombers for instance.

The increase in attacks is due to the increase imo of situations in areas of conflict,coupled with the attitudinal shift that has been occurring in the UK with specific regard to the appalling reactions to the plight of refugees.

The reason that people are being accused of racism and xenophobia is because they are saying racist and xenophobic things, it is becoming increasingly normalised to see these comments passed off as 'free speech', when all it is in fact is media manipulation, fear and ignorance.

"with specific regard to the appalling reactions to the plight of refugees."

what making sure they are children and not hairy arsed adults?

and wasnt the last bomber a Syrian refugee who we took in?

[Brillopad]

"with specific regard to the appalling reactions to the plight of refugees."

what making sure they are children and not hairy arsed adults?

and wasnt the last bomber a Syrian refugee who we took in?

He was indeed - a so-called child refugee. A pretty ungrateful one at that?

[Crimson Dynamo]

He was indeed - a so-called child refugee. A pretty ungrateful one at that?

yes I recall a senior political figure warning about this specifically and of course being shouted down as a racist xenophobe

cant recall his name...


:think:

[Brillopad]

Where did I suggest you had been?... :/

You suggested it was a 'go to' response for some ( apparently the members with a certain 'leaning')

That is unfair and untrue, in turn you have taken it upon yourself to defend members whose comments can and are considered xenophobic and/or racist.
Mine is maybe due to my 'leaning'....what's your excuse?...

Due to your bleeding heart and trying to force the world to think the same way as you.

[Kizzy]

Due to your bleeding heart and trying to force the world to think the same way as you.

Maybe your debating skills could do with improving too you're coming across as rude and personally offensive.

[Cherie]

Where did I suggest you had been?... :/

You suggested it was a 'go to' response for some ( apparently the members with a certain 'leaning')

That is unfair and untrue, in turn you have taken it upon yourself to defend members whose comments can and are considered xenophobic and/or racist.
Mine is maybe due to my 'leaning'....what's your excuse?...

You quoted my post, if you just wanted to make a general comment on the thread no need to quote me, if you quote me then I assume you are talking about me

[Brillopad]

Maybe your debating skills could do with improving too you're coming across as rude and personally offensive.

Says you who keeps calling people racists and xenophobes. You need more evidence than you have to try and label people the way you do. If that is not rude and personally offensive - there is something wrong somewhere.

[Kizzy]

Pompous post. Always blame everyone but the actual terrorists - It's the fault of the potential victim's attitudes especially if those being shot, stabbed or blown to kingdom come voted for Brexit or don't want thousands of unchecked economic migrants forcing their way on to their shores.

Wake up this is an issue all over Europe and the West not just in Britain. Everyone has had enough and don't want to take any more refuges/economic migrants whatever YOU choose to call them because of all the problems it causes.

Personally I think that those so keen to force all these unchecked people, some of which we know are terrorists, on the rest of the country are indirectly responsible for the carnage they cause.

Pompous?... I wouldn't say so, I would say you were pompous for suggesting I need to 'wake up' I am perfectly awake thank you.

Again I haven't called anyone anything, my view is simply that the increased threat is due to the increased conflict and the reactions of or govt, the media and the public to an extent to it.

For every action there is a reaction, that is simply a fact.
I don't condone it and I don't want it to continue obviously but as been seen when there is conflict anywhere it spills out into the wider world, what is happening is that innocent people are being victimised due to their religion and/or culture and that is wrong.

[Kizzy]

Says you who keeps calling people racists and xenophobes. You need more evidence than you have to try and label people the way you do. If that is not rude and personally offensive - there is something wrong somewhere.

I haven't labelled anyone anything...There have been no accusations made by myself.

Should you or anyone however say something that is racist or xenophobic I would have no problem whatsoever challenging that. And I fully intend to continue doing so.

[Kizzy]

You quoted my post, if you just wanted to make a general comment on the thread no need to quote me, if you quote me then I assume you are talking about me

I quoted to highlight your 'go to response' comment, that infers there is never a legitimate argument to be made in instances where there is an accusation of racism or xenophobia, that is not true.

[Brillopad]

I haven't labelled anyone anything...There have been no accusations made by myself.

Should you or anyone however say something that is racist or xenophobic I would have no problem whatsoever challenging that. And I fully intend to continue doing so.

Ditto.

[DemolitionRed]

It does no harm for people to be generally more alert. It's when wandering around with our heads in the clouds that most accidents happen. In crowded cities, people should be alert to what's going on around them.

I think most of us are generally more alert. Like I’ve already said, I’m watchful of abandoned packages and low-flying planes but what else should I be watchful of? A woman wearing the Burqa? A middle eastern looking man with a beard? men coming out of a mosque?

[DemolitionRed]

Or demonstrate and petition...thats what ive started to do

Petition against what exactly? against the lack of watchfulness by MI5?

I find it strange that there’s enough police to investigate hate crimes on the internet, but not enough to monitor a guy on their watch list shuttling back and forth between the UK and Tripoli. Why is it that football hooligans are banned from traveling to certain games and have to hand in their passports when England plays abroad, yet the Manchester bomber who was a person of interest in counter-surveillance can travel to and from Libya without much observation?
Remember The Jihadist Next Door? One of the terrorists was openly waving an ISIS flag and spouting fundamentalist and ISIS rhetoric. He announced he was a Jihadist and an ISIS recruiter right there, in front of the Channel 4 cameras but nobody did anything about him until he'd murdered 7 people and put another 48 in hospital.

And why is it they know exactly who and where to go within a few short hours of any attack?

[Cherie]

I think most of us are generally more alert. Like I’ve already said, I’m watchful of abandoned packages and low-flying planes but what else should I be watchful of? A woman wearing the Burqa? A middle eastern looking man with a beard? men coming out of a mosque?


As for the rest, no :umm2:

[Cherie]

Petition against what exactly? against the lack of watchfulness by MI5?

I find it strange that there’s enough police to investigate hate crimes on the internet, but not enough to monitor a guy on their watch list shuttling back and forth between the UK and Tripoli. Why is it that football hooligans are banned from traveling to certain games and have to hand in their passports when England plays abroad, yet the Manchester bomber who was a person of interest in counter-surveillance can travel to and from Libya without much observation?
Remember The Jihadist Next Door? One of the terrorists was openly waving an ISIS flag and spouting fundamentalist and ISIS rhetoric. He announced he was a Jihadist and an ISIS recruiter right there, in front of the Channel 4 cameras but nobody did anything about him until he'd murdered 7 people and put another 48 in hospital.

And why is it they know exactly who and where to go within a few short hours of any attack?


Because their hands are tied by endless claims of racism along the lines of Rotherham etc maybe?

This is incredible that the intelligence services are getting it in the neck for letting it happen..

Nearly all of these ****ers have been reported by someone, so it's either too wary of being sued, or too little manpower, or just an overwhelming number of attacks being planned...take your pick

the guy on the C4 documentary was probably so outrageous waving his flag openly he was put down as a nut job.

[Brillopad]

The only way we can stop terror is to stop participating in it.

The only way to stop terror is to stand up to it and free people from its control.

It's ludicrous to suggest that standing up to terrorism is participating in it. That sounds very like appeasing the terrorists in order not to bring terrorism to your doorstep. When it does blame those that stand up it it rather than those that practice it.

Your statement sounds like a statement based on fear to me. The old 'let's not get involved' mantra , turn a blind eye - self preservation.

https://www.thoughtco.com/is-iraq-a-democracy-2353046

Basically ISIS are Sunni Muslims pissed that their official persecution of the Shia Muslims in Iraq was thwarted. So you would rather have left them to it then!

[DemolitionRed]

The only way to stop terror is to stand up to it and free people from its control.

It's ludicrous to suggest that standing up to terrorism is participating in it. That sounds very like appeasing the terrorists in order not to bring terrorism to your doorstep. When it does blame those that stand up it it rather than those that practice it.

Your statement sounds like a statement based on fear to me. The old 'let's not get involved' mantra , turn a blind eye - self preservation.

I don't know what you read when you read my words but you clearly didn't understand what I was saying.

Let me spell it out. When I say stop participating, what I mean is, let's stop trying to be the rulers of the world. Let's stop invading other countries because I'm not sure if you know this Brillo, but we have invaded and destroyed again and again and we will continue to do this again and again, under that evil heading, "For the greater good". We will destroy Iran because it has a valuable resource we want and the only thing stopping us right now, is Russia, but give it time. And the aftermath of those invasions is counter-invasion.

Look further than the end of your nose if you seriously want to stop terror attacks happening in this country. Don't just look at the terrorist, look at the terrorists.

As for fear, I fear western intent. I don't believe for a second that western governments give a crap about terrorist atrocities over here. Why would they when they so openly commit mass atrocities in other countries. Every time we have a terrorist act on western shores, it strengthens their reasoning for further invasions.

I fear people like you who play along with the Right-wing rhetoric and refuse to accept these attacks are anything other than an evil force who want us all to be Muslim.

[DemolitionRed]

And none of the above means I don't care about the innocents who are maimed and killed on our shores by terrorist acts. I see them as precious individual human lives embroiled and caught up, through no fault of their own, in something they/we have no control over.

[Withano]

The only way to stop terror is to stand up to it and free people from its control.


Oh yeh. That's worked so well up to now hasn't it.

Also, let me walk you through why that is dumb as simply as possible.
To some, we are the terrorists. If they have the same mindset as you, what happens next? They stand up to it as means to try to stop it. Then what's your mindset? Standing up to that by fighting more? What's their reaction gonna be?

And that's honestly your solution. Til when? Til one side surrenders? How many more deaths by terrorism in the country will it take before you feel as if this may not be the best technique?

I'm not sure if DR's solution will work, it's kind of unprecedented. But it can't be any worse. What others perceive as terrorism from the uk will cause more terrorism to the uk, and that's a continuous loop.

[Oliver_W]

The only way we can stop terror is to stop participating in it.

So you think every terrorist attack in the West is due to our governments' actions abroad? And you place no blame on the individuals' indoctrination and extremism?

Naive.

Virtually none of the actual victims had any participation in "terrorism" abroad.

[Alf]

So you think every terrorist attack in the West is due to our governments' actions abroad? And you place no blame on the individuals' indoctrination and extremism?

Naive.

Virtually none of the actual victims had any participation in "terrorism" abroad.Probably thinks that's racist.

[jaxie]

Probably thinks that's racist.

:joker:

[Brillopad]

And none of the above means I don't care about the innocents who are maimed and killed on our shores by terrorist acts. I see them as precious individual human lives embroiled and caught up, through no fault of their own, in something they/we have no control over.

That's the point though we do have some control - by not letting in thousands of undocumented economic migrants who once in often 'disappear'. Tightening our borders and generally being more careful who we let in is self-preservation.

[Alf]

I'm hearing that central London tube in bomb threat lockdown, Police sniffer dogs blocking off streets.

[Brillopad]

I don't know what you read when you read my words but you clearly didn't understand what I was saying.

Let me spell it out. When I say stop participating, what I mean is, let's stop trying to be the rulers of the world. Let's stop invading other countries because I'm not sure if you know this Brillo, but we have invaded and destroyed again and again and we will continue to do this again and again, under that evil heading, "For the greater good". We will destroy Iran because it has a valuable resource we want and the only thing stopping us right now, is Russia, but give it time. And the aftermath of those invasions is counter-invasion.

Look further than the end of your nose if you seriously want to stop terror attacks happening in this country. Don't just look at the terrorist, look at the terrorists.

As for fear, I fear western intent. I don't believe for a second that western governments give a crap about terrorist atrocities over here. Why would they when they so openly commit mass atrocities in other countries. Every time we have a terrorist act on western shores, it strengthens their reasoning for further invasions.

I fear people like you who play along with the Right-wing rhetoric and refuse to accept these attacks are anything other than an evil force who want us all to be Muslim.

You can spell it out all you like but your opinions are just that opinions. The West went into Iraq for many reasons including standing up to terrorism i.e. 911, preventing dictatorships and terrorists from developing the capabilities of producing WMD, to help enable democracy in Iraq against the tyranny of SH and the Sunni Muslims over Shia Muslims and the Kurds and as a warning of their superior strength. There were a lot of Muslims in Iraq wanting the West to intervene at the time as clearly the situation there was pretty intolerable for many.

Your constant distractions about 'valuable resources and oil' is simply your opinion not fact. That may/may not have been a minor consideration but it was hardly the overriding reason. Your brazen attempts to keep blaming the 'invasion' of the West rather than the mindsets of dictatorships and religion for the problems faced in the West today is opinion at best - certainly not fact.

I fear people like you who in their attempts to address perceived injustices have developed tunnel vision and see what they want to see and that is the big bad West.

[Kizzy]

Because their hands are tied by endless claims of racism along the lines of Rotherham etc maybe?

This is incredible that the intelligence services are getting it in the neck for letting it happen..

Nearly all of these ****ers have been reported by someone, so it's either too wary of being sued, or too little manpower, or just an overwhelming number of attacks being planned...take your pick

the guy on the C4 documentary was probably so outrageous waving his flag openly he was put down as a nut job.

These are exactly the kind of people that isis want they are ideal candidates for radicalisation as such they should be taken more seriously not less.
The claims of racism would be made by whom? Counter terrorism units don't take an advert out in the paper when they monitor individuals.

[Alf]

Not one

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/not-one-400-brits-who-11186601.amp

[Kizzy]

The only way to stop terror is to stand up to it and free people from its control.

It's ludicrous to suggest that standing up to terrorism is participating in it. That sounds very like appeasing the terrorists in order not to bring terrorism to your doorstep. When it does blame those that stand up it it rather than those that practice it.

Your statement sounds like a statement based on fear to me. The old 'let's not get involved' mantra , turn a blind eye - self preservation.

https://www.thoughtco.com/is-iraq-a-democracy-2353046

Basically ISIS are Sunni Muslims pissed that their official persecution of the Shia Muslims in Iraq was thwarted. So you would rather have left them to it then!

That was happening during the gulf war in the 90s, our subsequent intervention led to the destabilisation of that part of the world, initially we armed rebels and trained them these are now members of isis...

Instead of admitting to our part in the problem or govt have enabled the media to demonise ALL Muslims, personally I would say the reasoning is twofold as it serves a purpose in relation to Palestine too.

[Vanessa]

I'm hearing that central London tube in bomb threat lockdown, Police sniffer dogs blocking off streets.

It was in Liverpool street. Thank god it was a false alarm. I used to work there before.

[Alf]

2 more people have been arrested in Newport, Wales over the attempted bombing on the London Subway.

[DemolitionRed]

So you think every terrorist attack in the West is due to our governments' actions abroad? And you place no blame on the individuals' indoctrination and extremism?

Naive.

Virtually none of the actual victims had any participation in "terrorism" abroad.

I think much of terrorism in the West is due to our government's actions abroad... yes.

A murderer is a murderer whether it be government or some random radicalized idiot... Yes, I do place blame on individuals but blame isn't helping to stop this. Take away the cause and the effect eventually ceases.

None of the victims in the UK had any participation in terrorism abroad. Many of the innocents abroad had any participation in terrorism. The sad point is,
terrorists have a tendency to kill innocents.

[DemolitionRed]

That's the point though we do have some control - by not letting in thousands of undocumented economic migrants who once in often 'disappear'. Tightening our borders and generally being more careful who we let in is self-preservation.

And what about the ones who were born here?

[Kizzy]

I think much of terrorism in the West is due to our government's actions abroad... yes.

A murderer is a murderer whether it be government or some random radicalized idiot... Yes, I do place blame on individuals but blame isn't helping to stop this. Take away the cause and the effect eventually ceases.

None of the victims in the UK had any participation in terrorism abroad. Many of the innocents abroad had any participation in terrorism. The sad point is,
terrorists have a tendency to kill innocents.

This is what I don't understand the inability to see how our actions in the past have impacted in the future, that was a great term 'cause and effect' it sums it up in a nutshell doesn't it?
Cause = conflict effect= terrorism

[Brillopad]

And what about the ones who were born here?

We are stuck with terrorists born here, but it should be a lesson learned. We certainly shouldn't just go on repeating the same mistakes by letting in thousands more undocumented economic migrants.

You seem to have the mind-set that if we already have some terrorists we might as well welcome more and increase the risk even further. Yep, makes real sense.

[Cherie]

This is what I don't understand the inability to see how our actions in the past have impacted in the future, that was a great term 'cause and effect' it sums it up in a nutshell doesn't it?
Cause = conflict effect= terrorism

so we deserve it, I see.

[Brillopad]

This is what I don't understand the inability to see how our actions in the past have impacted in the future, that was a great term 'cause and effect' it sums it up in a nutshell doesn't it?
Cause = conflict effect= terrorism

So terrorism is an inevitable effect of conflict is it? Only in warped, indoctrinated minds.

[Kizzy]

so we deserve it, I see.

Unbelievable... Is that all you see, I'm glad I don't have such a black and white perspective. That isn't what I said is it ?... At all.
Again you are struggling to debate preferring to make half baked accusations without attempting to look at my post with a degree of objectivity.
I'm not angry, just disappointed.

[Kizzy]

So terrorism is an inevitable effect of conflict is it? Only in warped, indoctrinated minds.

Name a conflict in our recent history that we have been directly involved with that hasn't resulted in terrorist activity.

[Brillopad]

Name a conflict in our recent history that we have been directly involved with that hasn't resulted in terrorist activity.

Terrorist activity comes from a dark and unstable place and to suggest otherwise is madness.

[Cherie]

Unbelievable... Is that all you see, I'm glad I don't have such a black and white perspective. That isn't what I said is it ?... At all.
Again you are struggling to debate preferring to make half baked accusations without attempting to look at my post with a degree of objectivity.
I'm not angry, just disappointed.

I don't really care whether you are angry or disappointed, normal citizens of the UK or any of the other countries which have been attacked by ISIS have no say over whether we get involved in conflicts or not, so no we don't deserve it, and as others have pointed out, you get involved you are damned, you don't get involved you are equally damned, all I see from your posts is that you are are happy to excuse killing indiscriminately on home soil because the UK has got involved in overseas wars. If we are not to get involved maybe we shouldn't take refugees either, you can't have it every way..

[Kizzy]

We are stuck with terrorists born here, but it should be a lesson learned. We certainly shouldn't just go on repeating the same mistakes by letting in thousands more undocumented economic migrants.

You seem to have the mind-set that if we already have some terrorists we might as well welcome more and increase the risk even further. Yep, makes real sense

What an ignorant blinkered view... that migrants = terrorists because it has happened... that is your evidence for effectively building a wall around the UK?

It's reactionary and small minded, what happened to 'Great Britain' world leaders? AAA rated first world powerhouse?
Your view reduces us to sniveling backwater!

[Cherie]

These are exactly the kind of people that isis want they are ideal candidates for radicalisation as such they should be taken more seriously not less.
The claims of racism would be made by whom? Counter terrorism units don't take an advert out in the paper when they monitor individuals.

The individual if he was interrogated over flying to Libya?

[Oliver_W]

This is what I don't understand the inability to see how our actions in the past have impacted in the future, that was a great term 'cause and effect' it sums it up in a nutshell doesn't it?
Cause = conflict effect= terrorism

It's not "our" actions though.

[Brillopad]

What an ignorant blinkered view... that migrants = terrorists because it has happened... that is your evidence for effectively building a wall around the UK?

It's reactionary and small minded, what happened to 'Great Britain' world leaders? AAA rated first world powerhouse?
Your view reduces us to sniveling backwater!

What will it take for you to react. How many have to die first? Or will you always ignore the risk factor and hope for the best?

[Kizzy]

Terrorist activity comes from a dark and unstable place and to suggest otherwise is madness.

True *see home grown terrorism*
past and present governments AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE opted for action... and we shouldn't be surprised that there are those who place the blame on our doorstep.

It happens, how we counter it is not ramping up more fear and reprisal.

[Brillopad]

True *see home grown terrorism*
past and present governments AGAINST THE WISHES OF THE PEOPLE opted for action... and we shouldn't be surprised that there are those who place the blame on our doorstep.

It happens, how we counter it is not ramping up more fear and reprisal.

No, we just don't give more an open invitation to do so.

[DemolitionRed]

so we deserve it, I see.

Nobody deserves it. The millions killed in the middle east didn't deserve it and the innocents now being used in 'eye for an eye' attacks don't deserve it.

If we have to sit on the chessboard of western globalization/imperialism then we have to relay some of this blame on our own government. We have to understand that for every force there is a counterforce.

When we go into Iran and we will, it will only be a matter of time before Iranians start to take revenge here. The government knows this but the riches in Iran are too great to ignore.

[Kizzy]

What will it take for you to react. How many have to die first? Or will you always ignore the risk factor and hope for the best?

The risk is there until there is a resolution, that is just a fact.
We cannot put up walls or ignore those in need especially due to the fact that they are in need due to a situation we aided in!

[Brillopad]

The risk is there until there is a resolution, that is just a fact.
We cannot put up walls or ignore those in need especially due to the fact that they are in need due to a situation we aided in!

So if you had your way we would let in as many undocumented economic migrants as want to come here and to hell with the risk to everyone else.

That is what I consider scary.

Note that most of these migrants were in a position to pay smugglers and most looked relatively healthy. What about the millions of starving people in Africa. Clearly in more need but not well enough or well off enough to travel. If we could get them here do we take them too? Perhaps we should just completely evacuate the third world and somehow fit everyone into Europe. :shocked:

[Brillopad]

Not one

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/not-one-400-brits-who-11186601.amp

Bloody disgraceful. They certainly demonstrated where their allegiances lie - and it clearly isn't with Britain. Shouldn't mindsets trump place of birth as one is clearly much more relevant than the other. Chuck them out for good.

Maybe we could find them an island somewhere, thousands of miles from anywhere, where they can fight amongst themselves and blow each other up to their hearts content.

[Tom4784]

So if you had your way we would let in as many undocumented economic migrants as want to come here and to hell with the risk to everyone else.

That is what I consider scary.

Note that most of these migrants were in a position to pay smugglers and most looked relatively healthy. What about the millions of starving people in Africa. Clearly in more need but not well enough or well off enough to travel. If we could get them here do we take them too? Perhaps we should just completely evacuate the third world and somehow fit everyone into Europe. :shocked:

There's very little point in anyone debating with you, until you learn to read posts properly it seems. You take statements, put them out of context and then warp them to suit your agenda instead of actually arguing against what was actually said.

Kizzy said that we can't ignore people in help especially when we played a role in their predicament, how in the blue ****ing hell does that translate into 'unrestricted immigration for all!' Truly poor reading comprehension skills on display here. Poor skills motivated by bigotry and racism.

[DemolitionRed]

The risk is there until there is a resolution, that is just a fact.
We cannot put up walls or ignore those in need especially due to the fact that they are in need due to a situation we aided in!

Exactly.

[DemolitionRed]

So if you had your way we would let in as many undocumented economic migrants as want to come here and to hell with the risk to everyone else.

That is what I consider scary.

Note that most of these migrants were in a position to pay smugglers and most looked relatively healthy. What about the millions of starving people in Africa. Clearly in more need but not well enough or well off enough to travel. If we could get them here do we take them too? Perhaps we should just completely evacuate the third world and somehow fit everyone into Europe. :shocked:

We take more Africans than any other nation.

[Brillopad]

There's very little point in anyone debating with you, until you learn to read posts properly it seems. You take statements, put them out of context and then warp them to suit your agenda instead of actually arguing against what was actually said.

Kizzy said that we can't ignore people in help especially when we played a role in their predicament, how in the blue ****ing hell does that translate into 'unrestricted immigration for all!' Truly poor reading comprehension skills on display here. Poor skills motivated by bigotry and racism.

Truly biased reading comprehension skills motivated by personal agendas, playing the typical oh so tired and boring 'racist' card due to a lack of any constructive critical thinking skills. :wavey:

[DemolitionRed]

Bloody disgraceful. They certainly demonstrated where their allegiances lie - and it clearly isn't with Britain. Shouldn't mindsets trump place of birth as one is clearly much more relevant than the other. Chuck them out for good.

Maybe we could find them an island somewhere, thousands of miles from anywhere, where they can fight amongst themselves and blow each other up to their hearts content.

Ask yourself this... why were they allowed to slip through the net? Instead of hate, hate, hate, try working out why the government, a government who is pretending to protect us all but really isn't, let all these ISIS soldiers back into the UK?

[DemolitionRed]

Truly biased reading comprehension skills motivated by personal agendas, playing the typical oh so tired and boring 'racist' card due to a lack of any constructive critical thinking skills. :wavey:


Well, it does get tired and it does get boring because its like watching a one trick pony. Your critical thinking goes no further than your own fear.

[Tom4784]

Truly biased reading comprehension skills motivated by personal agendas, playing the typical oh so tired and boring 'racist' card due to a lack of any constructive critical thinking skills. :wavey:

Ah, so you're just repeating what I've said back at me (and out of context) like a godamn parrot. Says it all really.

I'm just going to make the recommendation to everyone that they just stick you on ignore. Nothing productive comes from interacting with you.

[Brillopad]

Ask yourself this... why was they allowed to slip through the net? Instead of hate, hate, hate, try working out why the government, a government who is pretending to protect us all but really isn't, let all these ISIS soldiers back into the UK?

I am disgusted with the government for not deporting them and yes putting us at more risk, but that doesn't change my views on other things.

Corbyn would have used tax payers money to provide them with first class travel back to the UK.

[Brillopad]

Ah, so you're just repeating what I've said back at me (and out of context) like a godamn parrot. Says it all really.

I'm just going to make the recommendation to everyone that they just stick you on ignore. Nothing productive comes from interacting with you.

If you are not working as a mod why can't I put you on ignore. You get things both ways don't you. You are here purely to bait as usual.

[Tom4784]

I am disgusted with the government for not deporting them and yes putting us at more risk, but that doesn't change my views on other things.

Corbyn would have used tax payers money to provide them with first class travel back to the UK.

Ah, so you're less concerned with putting blame on the current government for their actions andinstead want to focus on illogical hypotheticals of what the cartoon character version of Corbyn you have in your head would do if he was actually at the head of a labour government. Corbyn isn't in power, he is not the one making decisions. Distracting yourself with hatred aimed at someone who is irrelevant to the situation you are unhappy with is a waste of time.

[Brillopad]

Ah, so you're just repeating what I've said back at me (and out of context) like a godamn parrot. Says it all really.

I'm just going to make the recommendation to everyone that they just stick you on ignore. Nothing productive comes from interacting with you.

More incitement from you then. :wavey:

[Brillopad]

Ah, so you're less concerned with putting blame on the current government for their actions andinstead want to focus on illogical hypotheticals of what the cartoon character version of Corbyn you have in your head would do if he was actually at the head of a labour government. Corbyn isn't in power, he is not the one making decisions. Distracting yourself with hatred aimed at someone who is irrelevant to the situation you are unhappy with is a waste of time.

Why waste yours interacting with me then, if not to bait. Practice what you preach. :wavey:

[Tom4784]

Why waste yours interacting with me then, if not to bait. Practice what you preach. :wavey:

So you have no argument as to why you refuse to really condemn the government making decisions you are unhappy with and instead are using imaginary scenarios to place blame on an outside individual that has no say in decisions that the Tory government makes.

[Brillopad]

So you have no argument as to why you refuse to really condemn the government making decisions you are unhappy with and instead are using imaginary scenarios to place blame on an outside individual that has no say in decisions that the Tory government makes.

I will clearly have to manage with an invisible ignore button. :wavey::wavey:

[Tom4784]

I will clearly have to manage with an invisible ignore button. :wavey::wavey:

Ah. no argument then. You know you can't argue against what I'm saying since it's true but you can't bring yourself to admit it either so you're doing the whole 'I'M TAKING THE BALL HOME!' approach that kids do when they are losing a game of football.

[Brillopad]

Ah. no argument then. You know you can't argue against what I'm saying since it's true but you can't bring yourself to admit it either so you're doing the whole 'I'M TAKING THE BALL HOME!' approach that kids do when they are losing a game of football.

It's worth letting you think you have actually made a valid point, even when you haven't, than to tolerate the inevitable verbal abuse. That's all you have to offer so don't lecture me.

[Tom4784]

It's worth letting you think you have actually made a valid point, even when you haven't, than to tolerate the inevitable verbal abuse. That's all you have to offer so don't lecture me.

So you know you've lost the debate but you refuse to admit it? That's just poor sportsmanship.

[Brillopad]

So you know you've lost the debate but you refuse to admit it? That's just poor sportsmanship.

Nobody loses a debate with you. Besides their was no debate on either side. You do get that!

[Kizzy]

So if you had your way we would let in as many undocumented economic migrants as want to come here and to hell with the risk to everyone else.

That is what I consider scary.

Note that most of these migrants were in a position to pay smugglers and most looked relatively healthy. What about the millions of starving people in Africa. Clearly in more need but not well enough or well off enough to travel. If we could get them here do we take them too? Perhaps we should just completely evacuate the third world and somehow fit everyone into Europe. :shocked:

Have we destabilised Africa too?... Who is speaking of economic migrants, do you mean refugees? :/

[Kizzy]

I am disgusted with the government for not deporting them and yes putting us at more risk, but that doesn't change my views on other things.

Corbyn would have used tax payers money to provide them with first class travel back to the UK.

:joker: I wondered when he'd get a mention! He'd probably give them all a free house and a car too I suppose?

[Brillopad]

Have we destabilised Africa too?... Who is speaking of economic migrants, do you mean refugees? :/

I take it you are aware many of all the migrants coming in the boats are from Africa. They are not refugees. And not all those claiming to be refugees are genuine refugees. We need to check and filter accordingly.

[DemolitionRed]

I take it you are aware many of all the migrants coming in the boats are from Africa. They are not refugees. And not all those claiming to be refugees are genuine refugees. We need to check and filter accordingly.

We have to catch them first but very little aid is given (by us) to assist countries like Libya and its the Libyan coastguards who apprehend the boats trying to smuggle Gambians, Nigerians, and Conganese migrants over to Europe. They take them back to Libya and put them in huge detention centres before processing each individual and sending them home. Why should the Libyans have to take on this responsibility without help from Europe, the countries these migrants want to get to. Libya can't afford, nor should be expected to do all this policing on its own.

[DemolitionRed]

We can't blame the migrants. They just want to escape poverty and believe Europe is the land of milk and honey. If I was earning £4 a month and a sack of rice cost me £5, I would be looking at every option for a better life.

That doesn't mean I accept illegal migrants, it just means I understand why we have them. I also accept that European governments could be doing a lot more to discourage these people
If we can't afford to put systems in place, like Libya is trying hard to do, then they will keep on coming here.

[Toy Soldier]

We can't blame the migrants. They just want to escape poverty and believe Europe is the land of milk and honey. If I was earning £4 a month and a sack of rice cost me £5, I would be looking at every option for a better life.

That doesn't mean I accept illegal migrants, it just means I understand why we have them. I also accept that European governments could be doing a lot more to discourage these people
If we can't afford to put systems in place, like Libya is trying hard to do, then they will keep on coming here.

Indeed - the vast majority of economic illegal immigrants actually would love to stay where they are. Culturally, socially, geographically... they would love to stay in the country that is their home. Who would actually CHOOSE to leave some gorgeous countries to live crammed into a tiny flat in rainy London with 5 other strangers, all for the honor of working an often less than min wage job?

People make that leap because they feel like they have no choice... and the way to reduce this sort of economic migration isn't "closing the borders" of the countries they're trying to come to... it's actually starting to work together to make sure that people don't have to abandon their homes in the first place.

[DemolitionRed]

Indeed - the vast majority of economic illegal immigrants actually would love to stay where they are. Culturally, socially, geographically... they would love to stay in the country that is their home. Who would actually CHOOSE to leave some gorgeous countries to live crammed into a tiny flat in rainy London with 5 other strangers, all for the honor of working an often less than min wage job?

People make that leap because they feel like they have no choice... and the way to reduce this sort of economic migration isn't "closing the borders" of the countries they're trying to come to... it's actually starting to work together to make sure that people don't have to abandon their homes in the first place.

Absolutely but that takes money and resources. When you look at countries like Nigeria and the foreign oil corporations like Shell, Texaco and Mobil there has to be some responsibility laid in their hands. When the Nigerians found oil, the West wanted their chunk of the pie. The only people who suffered in this paradox of plenty were the Nigerians.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Indeed - the vast majority of economic illegal immigrants actually would love to stay where they are. Culturally, socially, geographically... they would love to stay in the country that is their home. Who would actually CHOOSE to leave some gorgeous countries to live crammed into a tiny flat in rainy London with 5 other strangers, all for the honor of working an often less than min wage job?

People make that leap because they feel like they have no choice... and the way to reduce this sort of economic migration isn't "closing the borders" of the countries they're trying to come to... it's actually starting to work together to make sure that people don't have to abandon their homes in the first place.

"Indeed - the vast majority of economic illegal immigrants actually would love to stay where they are. "


what evidence do you have to support this?

[Brillopad]

"Indeed - the vast majority of economic illegal immigrants actually would love to stay where they are. "


what evidence do you have to support this?

Sounds like assumption to me!

[Brillopad]

The latest two suspects arrested over the Parsons Green bombing are asylum seekers.

I would never have guessed.

[Cherie]

The latest two suspects arrested over the Parsons Green bombing are asylum seekers.

I would never have guessed.

why did the government let them slip through the net :think:

[Tom4784]

Indeed - the vast majority of economic illegal immigrants actually would love to stay where they are. Culturally, socially, geographically... they would love to stay in the country that is their home. Who would actually CHOOSE to leave some gorgeous countries to live crammed into a tiny flat in rainy London with 5 other strangers, all for the honor of working an often less than min wage job?

People make that leap because they feel like they have no choice... and the way to reduce this sort of economic migration isn't "closing the borders" of the countries they're trying to come to... it's actually starting to work together to make sure that people don't have to abandon their homes in the first place.

Preach.

[Brillopad]

The two latest suspects arrested over the Parsons' Green bombing are asylum seekers.

Did we really expect otherwise?

[Cherie]

The two latest suspects arrested over the Parsons' Green bombing are asylum seekers.

Did we really expect otherwise?

well it wasn't going to happen, people were getting hysterical thinking they could slip though like this yadda yadda yadda ..who has egg on their face now :idc: I wish Kirk was here to see that what he was saying was right all along.

[Crimson Dynamo]

well it wasn't going to happen, people were getting hysterical thinking they could slip though like this yadda yadda yadda ..who has egg on their face now :idc: I wish Kirk was here to see that what he was saying was right all along.

yep he did warn everyone

[Brillopad]

well it wasn't going to happen, people were getting hysterical thinking they could slip though like this yadda yadda yadda ..who has egg on their face now :idc: I wish Kirk was here to see that what he was saying was right all along.

Exactly Cherry! Would like to see him back and listen to his words of wisdom again. Can't say I blame him for not wanting to though. Wrong side of the track so to speak. Too much hassle.

An article in the paper regarding another suspect actually stated that one resident said "he was a nice guy, he was very softly spoken. He used to condemn terrorism in front of my husband". Where have we heard that before?

[Cherie]

I expect the next thing we will hear is they aren't really asylum seekers, just another media slur

[Tom4784]

Yes, let's judge an entire section of people with incomparable morals and situations just because we are scared of things that aren't white and/or British.

The only people that should face condemnation for terrorism are the terrorists who actually commit the crimes, to use the fact that two terrorists happened to be Asylum Seekers to make blanket statements against an incomparably diverse group of people is just sad.

Would the same standard apply to white people too? Would it be okay to suggest that anyone of a Right Wing persuasion should be viewed with suspicion and fear because of the actions of Thomas Mair? I'm guessing the answer is no to that....

You can't judge thousands of people for the actions of two.

[Toy Soldier]

Who ever said that it was impossible that terrorists could pose as asylum seekers? :facepalm: Rewriting history in order to pat yourselves on the back. Pretty sad :shrug:.

The point always was - and still is - that there being a possibility that people will abuse the system is not justification for throwing all genuine asylum seekers under the bus. What's so hard to understand about that?

[Tom4784]

Who ever said that it was impossible that terrorists could pose as asylum seekers? :facepalm: Rewriting history in order to pat yourselves on the back. Pretty sad :shrug:.

Do you honestly expect any different at this point?

People who are scared and hateful will rewrite reality in a way that works for their confirmation bias.

[Brillopad]

Yes, let's judge an entire section of people with incomparable morals and situations just because we are scared of things that aren't white and/or British.

The only people that should face condemnation for terrorism are the terrorists who actually commit the crimes, to use the fact that two terrorists happened to be Asylum Seekers to make blanket statements against an incomparably diverse group of people is just sad.

Would the same standard apply to white people too? Would it be okay to suggest that anyone of a Right Wing persuasion should be viewed with suspicion and fear because of the actions of Thomas Mair? I'm guessing the answer is no to that....

You can't judge thousands of people for the actions of two.

It's considerably more than two in this incident alone, nevermind the other incidents. Is that another diversion tactic?

[Cherie]

Who ever said that it was impossible that terrorists could pose as asylum seekers? :facepalm: Rewriting history in order to pat yourselves on the back. Pretty sad :shrug:.

The point always was - and still is - that there being a possibility that people will abuse the system is not justification for throwing all genuine asylum seekers under the bus. What's so hard to understand about that?

No that was never said, Kirk was always adamant he was speaking about the few but people like you continued to pretend not to understand and tarred him with the racist brush, just as you are doing here now.....what do you find so hard to understand about vetting and giving sanctuary to genuine refugees, you were one of the main proponents in let all the Calais lot come over, and I can find you posts if you really need me to

[Cherie]

Do you honestly expect any different at this point?

People who are scared and hateful will rewrite reality in a way that works for their confirmation bias.

nah mate you have egg on your face because you said it was rubbish and that the open borders policy Germany adopted was great.

[Toy Soldier]

"Indeed - the vast majority of economic illegal immigrants actually would love to stay where they are. "


what evidence do you have to support this?

Oh OK sorry, economic migrants move from some beautiful countries to rat-infested London slums because Britain. It's not that they're struggling to get by financially in their own countries - in fact, jobs and money are ABUNDANT there, but Britain. Why wouldn't they want to live here? London. Britain and stuff. You know. Queen.

I mean why would anyone assume that economic migrants move here because of money, and really would rather stay in their home countries if they could make enough money there. Their countries are not Britain, so of course they would want to leave!

[Cherie]

Oh OK sorry, economic migrants move from some beautiful countries to rat-infested London slums because Britain. It's not that they're struggling to get by financially in their own countries - in fact, jobs and money are ABUNDANT there, but Britain. Why wouldn't they want to live here? London. Britain and stuff. You know. Queen.

I mean why would anyone assume that economic migrants move here because of money, and really would rather stay in their home countries if they could make enough money there. Their countries are not Britain, so of course they would want to leave!

where are the rat infested slums pray? you only had to look at the migrant camp at Calais to see that the UK was the holy grail, they were in France they didn't want to stay with all the wine, grapes and french farmhouses, why was that?

[Toy Soldier]

you were one of the main proponents in let all the Calais lot come over, and I can find you posts if you really need me to

Be my guest Cherie.

I got on fine with Kirk for the mostpart and the only time I ever called him racist was when he stated that people from the middle east are genetically predisposed to violence and that war is "in their blood". But by all means, if you can find these other posts where I said that we should "let all the Calais lot come over", then I suggest you do so before making false accusations. :hee:

[Tom4784]

It's considerably more than two in this incident alone, nevermind the other incidents. Is that another diversion tactic?

It's common sense. You would not want to be seen as a representation of the extreme worst of your own demographic so why do you think it's okay to paint in broad strokes when it comes to races/religions/nationalities you hate?

If I was to take the statements you make and change the words so that they represent people of a right wing mindset you would flip your **** yet you are okay with doing exactly that to people who don't happen to be white.

[Cherie]

Be my guest Cherie.

I got on fine with Kirk for the mostpart and the only time I ever called him racist was when he stated that people from the middle east are genetically predisposed to violence and that war is "in their blood". But by all means, if you can find these other posts where I said that we should "let all the Calais lot come over", then I suggest you do so before making false accusations. :hee:

You make plenty false accusations like accusing everyone who has a different opinion to you of being afraid of brown people, not nice is it being falsely accused, I can find those posts though unless of course they are deleted beforehand.:hee:

[Toy Soldier]

where are the rat infested slums pray? you only had to look at the migrant camp at Calais to see that the UK was the holy grail, they were in France they didn't want to stay with all the wine, grapes and french farmhouses, why was that?

We covered this Cherie - it was because the French don't make good fish *& chips and also, Baby Prince George.

Obviously.

I mean I can't think of any other reason - such as the hope of potential economic prosperity - that any economic migrant would try to get into the UK. I mean, we KNOW it's not because they were struggling financially in their home country. LT said so. That ship has sailed. They were fine there and had loads of money but the magnificent Britain called out to them - like a siren through the fog - and they want to come here just because.

[Tom4784]

nah mate you have egg on your face because you said it was rubbish and that the open borders policy Germany adopted was great.

How about you stop blatantly making **** up to suit your argument? I doubt that I've ever commentated on Germany's open door policy so you can stop with your lies right there.

Stick to the facts, the ACTUAL facts, not the ones conjured up by your imagination.

[Toy Soldier]

You make plenty false accusations like accusing everyone who has a different opinion to you of being afraid of brown people, not nice is it being falsely accused, I can find those posts though unless of course they are deleted beforehand.:hee:

I don't accuse "people who have a different opinion to me" of "being afraid of brown people" but you're free to find a post supporting that suggestion too, Cherie, though I know searching is probably difficult with such deep chips on your shoulders?

I have neither the time nor the inclination to go back through my posts deleting them so, as I said, go for it. Have fun; my posts are usually excellent so I can only imagine that reading through them will make for a fun-filled, if fruitless (because you won't find what you're looking for) - afternoon.

To be clear; what we're looking for is a post that is evidence that; "you were one of the main proponents in let all the Calais lot come over".

Go go go.

[Cherie]

How about you stop blatantly making **** up to suit your argument? I doubt that I've ever commentated on Germany's open door policy so you can stop with your lies right there.

Stick to the facts, the ACTUAL facts, not the ones conjured up by your imagination.

will you stick to facts, you continually accuse people of being afraid of brown people when you know nothing about them? not keen on being accused are you...diddums

[Cherie]

I don't accuse "people who have a different opinion to me" of "being afraid of brown people" but you're free to find a post supporting that suggestion too, Cherie, though I know searching is probably difficult with such deep chips on your shoulders?

I have neither the time nor the inclination to go back through my posts deleting them so, as I said, go for it. Have fun; my posts are usually excellent so I can only imagine that reading through them will make for a fun-filled, if fruitless (because you won't find what you're looking for) - afternoon.

To be clear; what we're looking for is a post that is evidence that; "you were one of the main proponents in let all the Calais lot come over".

Go go go.

cant be bothered, you can easily delete them.

[Toy Soldier]

will you stick to facts, you continually accuse people of being afraid of brown people when you know nothing about them? not keen on being accused are you...diddums

You're not very good at this Cherie, tbh I'd suggest you should step off of the forum and calm down a bit; look over your posts again when you have a clearer head. This is sort of embarrassing :umm2:. I mean, I understand that you have an issue with people being accused of xenophobia / racism but... :shrug:... it does happen on here, in my opinion, and in the opinion of others, and I can't quite figure out why you're so keen for those opinions to be invalid?

When people are accused of racism on here, it's generally with a direct quote of the post that the accuser considers to be racist. You might disagree with that assessment but so what, it's not your opinion. You, on the other hand, are throwing out random accusations "about things that you're sure you remember people saying once maybe ages ago but the posts definitely exist and you'll go find them" - except that you wont - and that's a completely different situation.

Quote the posts alongside your opinion of those posts. It's simple enough. People might agree, they might disagree, or whatever, but until then, you're throwing around "he said she said" fantasies.

[Toy Soldier]

cant be bothered, you can easily delete them.

:facepalm:

I promise I don't care about this even vaguely enough to bother going back deleting posts :joker:.

Also; you can see the time/date that posts were edited to be deleted.

Sooo. Bonus points if you can find an old post in an old thread that I have edited or deleted more than 24 hours after the original post was made. You won't find one of those, either.