Breaking news...active shooter situation in las vegs

[Beso]

Info is sketchy but it seems to be at a concert at the mandalay bay hotel.

[Eddie.]

hope everybody is ok?

[lewis111]

Looks terrifying - can hear many shots in the clips


Looks like the shooter/one of them has been killed by police now

[lewis111]

Most people seem to be using the arguement "it's an illegal weapon he used" to support lack of gun control... at a time like this

[Eddie.]

apparently somebody was reported dead and 20 were wounded...Las Vegas is a place to enjoy ursrlf in and not risk ur life...

[waterhog]

its all spreading fear and this is what they want. really terrible as people out having a nice time and this happens.

[Nicky91]

so so terrible news, i could've walked there, i am so feeling sad for the victims of this awful tragedy :(

[MTVN]

They're now saying that over 20 people are dead: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41466116

[Eddie.]

holy sh1t!

[Eddie.]

so so terrible news, i could've walked there, i am so feeling sad for the victims of this awful tragedy :(

ur OJ profile tho...

[Eddie.]

hope nobody in this forum has family members/friends affected by this tragedy...

[Eddie.]

but lessons should have been learnt from Manchester...

[Cherie]

If anyone heard the gunfire, it sounded like machine gun fire, the person is a local, gunman on a high floor of a hotel :umm2:

[Cherie]

but lessons should have been learnt from Manchester...

what? he was in a nearby hotel on a high floor, he wasn't at the concert which was open air...

[Babayaro.]

It sounded like some sort of machine gun in the clip. What chance have you got in that situation.

[smudgie]

Horrific.
I hope they find his travelling companion quickly, and preferably alive so that questions can be answered.
R.I.P. to all those murdered.

[Crimson Dynamo]

20 dead now

Suspect killed as police hunt female Asian 'companion'

[Eddie.]

what? he was in a nearby hotel on a high floor, he wasn't at the concert which was open air...

the evacuation process should have been faster, to prevent from more lives being taken away.

[Crimson Dynamo]

the evacuation process should have been faster, to prevent from more lives being taken away.

yes i expect they practised how to evacuate when a madman with an automatic rifle fired on the crowds from above the day before..

[Smithy]

50+ dead, 200+ injured

[Shaun]

D:

[Nicky91]

50 dead :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

[Kizzy]

Suspect named

The suspect’s name is Stephen Paddock, with a date of birth of four nine of 1953. As far as history and background we haven’t completed that part of the investigation.

Several rifles were found in Paddock’s room

We located numerous firearms within the room that he occupied. All’s we know is that they were rifles. We are executing a search warrant on the room.We have officers at his residence, and we will be executing a search warrant there also shortly.

It is going to be a long and tedious investigation. We are bringing in all the resources of the FBI to assist us in this investigation, in particular to their victim witness advocates and their CSI folks to help us process the scene and ensure that we are getting all the evidence that we can possible obtain.

Police are confident they have located Paddock’s companion Marilou Danley

We have located the vehicles that I had put out in the first briefing. We are confident but not 100% sure that we have located the female person of interest. I want the people to feel confident and calm that we have accomplished a lot in short period of time.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/oct/02/las-vegas-two-dead-in-mandalay-bay-casino-shooting-latest-updates

[Nicky91]

OMG :omgno:

[Eddie.]

omg!

[Eddie.]

this is giving me Pulse Nightclub flashbacks!

[Kizzy]

Yes Stephen and Marilou aren't traditional Asian names are they? There is as usual some sources spreading rather bogus information.

[Nicky91]

Yes Stephen and Marilou aren't traditional Asian names are they? There is as usual some sources spreading rather bogus information.

i'm curious to what their motives were for these attacks, my money now is seeking attention from the media, maybe they are against country music festivals

but i first thought of ISIS, but now i read that they are americans, no more gun licences to civilians please, we only see trouble coming from that

[Eddie.]

yah not all muslims are terrorists! I have many friends who are Muslims who always feel like they are gonna be mocked of whenever something like this happens...

[Nicky91]

yah not all muslims are terrorists! I have many friends who are Muslims who alwayd feel like they are gonna be mocked of whenever something like this happens...

the knife attack yesterday in france was a attack by muslims ;)


guess we'll find it out about possible motives from these 2


but my condolences for the victim's families, it must feel devastating to know one of your loved ones is gone :(

[cliffxen]

just watched a video of the shooting. how terrible..

[Cherie]

the evacuation process should have been faster, to prevent from more lives being taken away.

are you serious, a mad man with a machine gun firing indiscriminately from the 32nd floor of a hotel, the police did well to pinpoint him so quickly in fairness

[Cherie]

Suspect named

The suspect’s name is Stephen Paddock, with a date of birth of four nine of 1953. As far as history and background we haven’t completed that part of the investigation.

Several rifles were found in Paddock’s room

We located numerous firearms within the room that he occupied. All’s we know is that they were rifles. We are executing a search warrant on the room.We have officers at his residence, and we will be executing a search warrant there also shortly.

It is going to be a long and tedious investigation. We are bringing in all the resources of the FBI to assist us in this investigation, in particular to their victim witness advocates and their CSI folks to help us process the scene and ensure that we are getting all the evidence that we can possible obtain.

Police are confident they have located Paddock’s companion Marilou Danley

We have located the vehicles that I had put out in the first briefing. We are confident but not 100% sure that we have located the female person of interest. I want the people to feel confident and calm that we have accomplished a lot in short period of time.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2017/oct/02/las-vegas-two-dead-in-mandalay-bay-casino-shooting-latest-updates


yes and the media are reporting him as what he is a white man, everyone take note...

[Nicky91]

are you serious, a mad man with a machine gun firing indiscriminately from the 32nd floor of a hotel, the police did well to pinpoint him so quickly in fairness

yeah, i would've probably tried to get people behind cover, like cars, trees, out of the mad man's line of sight

[Kizzy]

yes and the media are reporting him as what he is a white man, everyone take note...

Is there a point to your reiteration Cherie?

[Beso]

yah not all muslims are terrorists! I have many friends who are Muslims who always feel like they are gonna be mocked of whenever something like this happens...

Perhaps they could pen a letter to isis with their complaints.:smug:

[Cherie]

yeah, i would've probably tried to get people behind cover, like cars, trees, out of the mad man's line of sight

you don't think that happened, do you think he was shooting round the edges, he would have been firing into the middle of the crowd where where they going to hide?

[Beso]

The alleged gunman

www.google.co.uk/search?q=stephen+paddock&safe=off&client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-browser&dcr=0&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDvcuM89HWAhUEnRoKHcKADdkQ_AUICSgB&biw=360&bih=512#imgrc=gUgGl1J7Qt

[Beso]

The alleged gunman

www.google.co.uk/search?q=stephen+paddock&safe=off&client=ms-android-samsung&source=android-browser&dcr=0&prmd=isnv&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiDvcuM89HWAhUEnRoKHcKADdkQ_AUICSgB&biw=360&bih=512#imgrc=gUgGl1J7Qt

[Scarlett.]

Absolutely horrific.

[Cherie]

He lived in a retirement village and has no previous convictions, not even a ticket.

Nevada has much stricter gun laws than other states in the US :umm2:

[Will.]

This so sad, RIP all :(

[Will.]

Police now saying over 400 injured :(

[Cherie]

apparently he reloaded at least 15 times

[Nicky91]

apparently he reloaded at least 15 times

wow that is a lot of bullets then :worry:


and it is just legal to have guns in america, it makes me feel so scared

[Eddie.]

I think the US government should educate the public more on gun violence and its negative aftermaths. I think the government should really do this as many shootings have happened in the past (e.g. Aurora, Sandy Hook, Pulse), yet it seems like the public are not educated well enough on gun violence as it keeps on happening, every day at the alleways especially.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think the US government should educate the public more on gun violence and its negative aftermaths. I think the government should really do this as many shootings have happened in the past (e.g. Aurora, Sandy Hook, Pulse), yet it seems like the public are not educated well enough on gun violence as it keeps on happening, every day at the alleways especially.

I think that Americans see incidents like this as the price they pay for their gun laws and are ok in general with it

[Nicky91]

I think that Americans see incidents like this as the price they pay for their gun laws and are ok in general with it

yeah but 84 years old is that correct, the age of the mad man


OMFG, did he suffer from dementia, and think he was back in WW2 :think: it is a possibility i think

[Crimson Dynamo]

64

[Nicky91]

64

really, i heard 84 on the dutch radio ;)

[Eddie.]

Have the police found any other suspects relating to the case?

[Tom4784]

An awful situation and a needless one. Let's hope that the number of dead doesn't go up any more than it already has.

[Niamh.]

Must have been terrifying for those people. No point in going on about it I guess but those gun laws need serious addressing if they want to stop stuff like this happening so much

[Cherie]

Apparently a woman pushed her way to the front of the crowd and told them they were all going to die, then a man and woman were escorted from the venue, a coincidence?

[jaxie]

No member of the public to have access to guns as easily as they do in the US. All those families lose but the NRA wins.

[Alf]

ISIS have claimed responsibility, and that the guy was a convert to Islam.

However ISIS always claim responsibility, so we'll just have to wait and see.

[Alf]

The woman (girlfriend) has apparently been located in the Philippines and is no longer a person of interest.

[Niamh.]

ISIS have claimed responsibility, and that the guy was a convert to Islam.

However ISIS always claim responsibility, so we'll just have to wait and see.

This is it, the more they claim responsibility the scarier they seem to people

[Alf]

This is it, the more they claim responsibility the scarier they seem to peopleIf he was on a jihad, he probably wouldn't have commit suicide. Because then he wouldn't have got into Paradise.

So I'm very doubtful of their claim anyway.

[Alf]

The motive is still a mystery, all we know is that he planned this out and knew what he was doing.

[Shaun]

I always found the claims of the Pulse shooter being radicalised by ISIS a tad 'convenient' so I wouldn't be surprised if this happens here as well to hush up the growing condemnations of the gun laws...

[Alf]

58 possibly 59 now confirmed dead.

[Crimson Dynamo]

im amazed this does not happen more often tbh

[Niamh.]

58 possibly 59 now confirmed dead.

oh no :(

[Nicky91]

not 58/59 dead :(

[lewis111]

Looking at the pictures of location it took place
The hotel was pretty far away from the venue the poor people probabaly had no idea where the shots were coming from so had no idea where to hide or run to :(

[lewis111]

Worst shooting in US history - why do we keep hearing tbis in recent years
The NRA will be so proud

[Alf]

At the moment he just seems like some random nutter, whose probably lived a decent life (he was unknown to the police) and then at some point has just snapped with the World at thought that he's going out in a blaze of glory. A bit like that Derrick Bird in Cumbria a few years back.

It will be interesting to see what the investigators find.

[Alf]

NBC News saying that he is the son of Benjamin Paddock, a bank robber once on FBI most-wanted list.


This from New York post

http://nypost.com/2017/10/02/vegas-gunmans-psychopath-dad-landed-on-fbis-most-wanted-list/

[LaLaLand]

My God this is absolutely horrific.

[Josiah.]

I've found an image on the CBC News website to give you all more insight as to where the shooter was, where the concert venue is, and how close both the hotel and concert venue are to the airport in Las Vegas.

https://i.imgur.com/ZftvW3B.jpg

[Alf]

Victims fund already raised over 700k. There are some good people in this World too.

[Alf]

The interesting part is this report of the woman who told people at the concert that they would "all die"

Does this mean it wasn't a lone wolf, and it was a planned attack?

[Josiah.]

Here's the link to the article on the CBC News website: http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/las-vegas-shooting-1.4316121

[arista]

I HATE HIS BROTHER


we all know they are NOT CLOSE.......


He says thats NOT him
IT IS HIS BROTHER



FECKING ULTRA FACT


No isis /no president/ just GODS weather
ALF you nice old fella YOU.......




POINT OF ORDER : THERE IS NO GOD>



FEEL MY FORCE
IF you dare Scott or Irish Nice MODS

[arista]

live Ch4HD news now

or SkyNewsHD


Its not fireworks its a NUTTER


A state that has NO GUN CONTROL.
Pathetic President before TRUMP - FECKING FACT

[lewis111]

I'm not trying to be political - only mentioning this because it was jut brought up on BBC
Trump made no comments at all about gun control in his speech today - something Obama did after almost every shooting but Was never able to tack action thanks to republicans and the NRA (often the same thing)

Thoughts and prayers do nothing - it's never too soon to discuss gun control and take about changes that need to be made I don't see how it's at all disrespectful

[Alf]

Body language expert taking apart his brothers interview.


YDOJWzF_trI

[Alf]

I'm not trying to be political - only mentioning this because it was jut brought up on BBC
Trump made no comments at all about gun control in his speech today - something Obama did after almost every shooting but Was never able to tack action thanks to republicans and the NRA (often the same thing)

Thoughts and prayers do nothing - it's never too soon to discuss gun control and take about changes that need to be made I don't see how it's at all disrespectfulWe have gun control in Europe. It doesn't stop acid attacks, sword attacks and people being mowed down. If people want to kill, they'll find the means. Guns don't kill, people do.

[Marsh.]

We have gun control in Europe. It doesn't stop acid attacks, sword attacks and people being mowed down. If people want to kill, they'll find the means. Guns don't kill, people do.

Obviously, but why make it easy for them?

There are a million ways to die, doesn't mean we can't take steps to make our lives and homes as safe as possible.

[Alf]

Obviously, but why make it easy for them?

There are a million ways to die, doesn't mean we can't take steps to make our lives and homes as safe as possible.Guns have actually saved peoples lives too.

I'm not saying you don't have an argument, I'm just saying it's not as straight forward as you think.

[Oliver_W]

I'm not trying to be political - only mentioning this because it was jut brought up on BBC
Trump made no comments at all about gun control in his speech today - something Obama did after almost every shooting but Was never able to tack action thanks to republicans and the NRA (often the same thing)


Like how Obama would never address islamic terrorism for what it was?

Gun control would only do so much, as criminals don't care about rules or regulations.

[Marsh.]

Guns have actually saved peoples lives too.

I'm not saying you don't have an argument, I'm just saying it's not as straight forward as you think.

Yes, it is straight forward.

Stop allowing any tom, dick and harry to own a gun.

Guns have claimed more lives than they've saved.

They have their use, they have their purpose but it doesn't mean they should be widely available for everyone.

[Alf]

Like how Obama would never address islamic terrorism for what it was?

Gun control would only do so much, as criminals don't care about rules or regulations.Exactly, guns would still exist, but it would be the criminals who have them and the law-abiding citizens unable to defend themselves.

[lewis111]

Like how Obama would never address islamic terrorism for what it was?

Gun control would only do so much, as criminals don't care about rules or regulations.

No but guns make it so easy for them to kill people
Thousands of lives would've been saved by now if every day people didn't have access to guns in America
You don't hear of mass killings every week in any other western country apart from US and that's for 1 reasons


Also Obama never defend Islamic Terror like Trump did White Supremacits and Neo-Nazis

[GiRTh]

live Ch4HD news now

or SkyNewsHD


Its not fireworks its a NUTTER


A state that has NO GUN CONTROL.
Pathetic President before TRUMP - FECKING FACTYou blame Obama when Trump supports and has received money from he NRA. :conf:

Donald Trump tells NRA: 'I am going to come through for you (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/28/donald-trump-nra)

[lewis111]

"Guns don't kill people" yes because we always see Maniacs with knives stabbing 600 PEOPLE in a single attack
GUNS KILL PEOPLE HE COULDNT KILL THEESE PEOPLE WITHOUT THEM

[GiRTh]

Nothing will be done about gun control. If they do nothing after after Sandy Hook then nothing will be done this time.

[lewis111]

Nothing will be done about gun control. If after Sandy Hook then nothing will be done this time.

It would take the loss of many republicans in power's loved ones for anything to even start being discussed tbh

[Oliver_W]

No but guns make it so easy for them to kill people
Thousands of lives would've been saved by now if every day people didn't have access to guns in America
Right, and now those guns are out there. If a law was put out that everyone had to hand in their guns, who do you think would be left defenseless?

Also Obama never defend Islamic Terror like Trump did White Supremacits and Neo-Nazis
When did he do that?

[Marsh.]

Exactly, guns would still exist, but it would be the criminals who have them and the law-abiding citizens unable to defend themselves.

That's a silly excuse.

We have strict gun laws in this country which don't stop certain criminals getting hold of them, but due to the laws the crimes that occur with them are few and far between.

A free for all for everyone to "protect themselves" does anything but.

Yes, there are other weapons mentally deranged people could opt for in their place. But few of them would wreak as much damage as a shower of bullets.

[lewis111]

Anyone who says guns should still be allowed in US after attacks like this clearly has no sympathy for any of the people who lost their lives as you are ok with this happening again as you know for a fact it will

[Marsh.]

Right, and now those guns are out there. If a law was put out that everyone had to hand in their guns, who do you think would be left defenseless?


When did he do that?

Who mentioned collecting all of the guns?

They're discussing gun CONTROL.

The state does not require firearms owners to have licenses or register their weapons and Nevada does not limit the number of firearms an individual can possess;

Does this sound like sensible gun CONTROL to you?

[GiRTh]

When did he do that?He said there were - very fine people on both side.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/trump-defends-white-nationalist-protesters-some-very-fine-people-on-both-sides/537012/

[Marsh.]

Anyway, the laws will never be changed and control will never be forged as it's not in the interest of the corrupt governments.

[Oliver_W]

He said there were - very fine people on both side.

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/08/trump-defends-white-nationalist-protesters-some-very-fine-people-on-both-sides/537012/

So saying both sides have some "fine" people is excusing all of them? Riiiiiight.

Also from the article you linked:
Trump gave a stronger statement, saying “racism is evil” and specifically condemning white supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, and neo-Nazis.

[GiRTh]

So saying both sides have some "fine" people is excusing all of them? Riiiiiight.

Also from the article you linked:What on earth are you on about. The question was - when did Trump defend Neo-Nazis. IF you want a discussion on everything Trump said about Charlottesville then open you own thread but the question you asked has been answered. :conf:

[Rob!]

I don't even understand how "guns have saved lives" can be used as an argument when it is a device specifically designed to end lives.

[Oliver_W]

What on earth are you on about. The question was - when did Trump defend Neo-Nazis. IF you want a discussion on everything Trump said about Charlottesville then open you own thread but the question you asked has been answered. :conf:
But he didn't defend neo-nazis. He defended those among the Unite the Right who weren't neo-nazis or white supremacists.

[GiRTh]

But he didn't defend neo-nazis. He defended those among the Unite the Right who weren't neo-nazis or white supremacists.He simply said - both sides - but if you believe you have more insight into what he actually meant then thats fine.:thumbs:

[Oliver_W]

He simply said - both sides - but if you believe you have more insight into what he actually meant then thats fine.:thumbs:

He also said both sides were to blame. I'm not claiming to have any more insight into his words, but when he has condemned white supremacists and neo-nazis, it does seem a bit daft to claim he defended them.

[GiRTh]

He also said both sides were to blame. I'm not claiming to have any more insight into his words, but when he has condemned white supremacists and neo-nazis, it does seem a bit daft to claim he defended them.Don't understand the point you are trying to make. Do we agree he said it. If you interpret his words differently then I cant do anything about that but the question was when did Trump defend Neo-Nazis and is has been answered.

[lewis111]

I'm not going to critize Trump's speech apart from the lack of gun control mention just now as we don't know if this was ISIS, Neo-Nazi or mental illness
I will however assume that if it turns out to be ISIS he will mention that or be harder on it than he would Neo-Nazi but I hope he proves me wrong

[Oliver_W]

Don't understand the point you are trying to make. Do we agree he said it. If you interpret his words differently then I cant do anything about that but the question was when did Trump defend Neo-Nazis and is has been answered.

But the point is he did not defend neo-nazis. He said some people at the march were "fine people" - not everyone in Unite the Right are neo-nazis or white supremacists.

[lewis111]

But the point is he did not defend neo-nazis. He said some people at the march were "fine people" - not everyone in Unite the Right are neo-nazis or white supremacists.

I get what you mean but because of the event that happened at that march it wasn't the time to say that
It was the Neo-Nazis that killed that day so thy should've been the ones he called out at the time, wasn't the time to show his dislike to the alt-left as they didn't kill anyone

[arista]

You blame Obama when Trump supports and has received money from he NRA. :conf:

Donald Trump tells NRA: 'I am going to come through for you (https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/apr/28/donald-trump-nra)



Correct GIRTH

I BLAME OBAMA more than trump
as that State was NOT CORRECTED
FACTS


And Yes you are correct the NRA
are Trumps mate
Well said Girth.


Top Poster on OUR tibb.....

[GiRTh]

But the point is he did not defend neo-nazis. He said some people at the march were "fine people" - not everyone in Unite the Right are neo-nazis or white supremacists.Again you need some insight in to who specifically he was referring to. We can do this all day if you want but in my mind due to the nonspecific nature of his statement then he is defedning Neo-nazis.

[Oliver_W]

Again you need some insight in to who specifically he was referring to. We can do this all day if you want but in my mind due to the nonspecific nature of his statement then he is defedning Neo-nazis.
That's negated by him also condemning neo-nazis and white supremacists.

[GiRTh]

That's negated by him also condemning neo-nazis and white supremacists.
Again if you want to talk specifics of what he said and when he said it then start your own thread. We appear to be going round and round here. :conf:

[Northern Monkey]

The US will never be able to ban all guns because they’d start a civil war trying to disarm everyone.It’d be an almighty bloodbath.
However imo they should stop the sale of fully automatic weapons full stop even to license holders,except for shooting ranges maybe.
Wtf does somebody need a fully auto M16 or AK47 for?Or even LMG’s like M60’s.What could they possibly be hunting to warrant that kind of firepower?
I read that it is’nt easy to get a full auto assault rifle and it is very expensive but it’s obviously happening.
The scale of this couldn’t happen with a normal semi auto AR15 or hunting rifle and the shooter would have to be more precise especially from that range,Not just spray and pray.

[Oliver_W]

Again if you want to talk specifics of what he said and when he said it then start your own thread. We appear to be going round and round here. :conf:

We're only going round because you keep repeating he defended neo-nazis and white supremacists, when he clearly didn't.

[Smithy]

Shots being fired at uni of south California atm

[GiRTh]

We're only going round because you keep repeating he defended neo-nazis and white supremacists, when he clearly didn't.
Im not doing round four. He said - both sides - and you interpret that because he said X two days later then .....etc ..... etc. and your effort to explain it is admirable but.....:bored:

[UserSince2005]

Absolutely ridiculous, horrific, nothing they could do but hope they were the lucky ones. sitting ducks.
At least if the coward had been on the ground they could of stopped him sooner.
ISIS will be taking notes.

[lewis111]

Oh and the thing in California isn't true it doesn't seem as people at the college have stated so

[Crimson Dynamo]

Shares in gun manufacturing rose today

[Marsh.]

Shares in gun manufacturing rose today

The true root of evil.... money.

[Shaun]

shots being fired at uni of south california atm

914943906596446208

[Beso]

"Guns don't kill people" yes because we always see Maniacs with knives stabbing 600 PEOPLE in a single attack
GUNS KILL PEOPLE HE COULDNT KILL THEESE PEOPLE WITHOUT THEM

Look up maynmar killings.

[James]

Nothing will be done about gun control. If they do nothing after after Sandy Hook then nothing will be done this time.

Shares in gun manufacturing rose today

I think, for a lot of Americans, when mass shootings happen, it makes them less likely to want more controls because they think they need guns to protect themselves.

[Beso]

It all seems rather well planned to be a a lone nutjob....unless the noise was pissing him off im calling terrorism...probably radicalised in his care home.

[Scarlett.]

I don't get why the sell assault weapons in America, I mean, fair enough, I could understand a handgun, to keep in a bedside drawer or something, but a ****ing machine gun? What possible reason does a normal citizen need that for?

[Beso]

Absolutely ridiculous, horrific, nothing they could do but hope they were the lucky ones. sitting ducks.
At least if the coward had been on the ground they could of stopped him sooner.
ISIS will be taking notes.

So very very true.

[Beso]

Am I correct in thinking the mandalay hotel is still open for business?

[DemolitionRed]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/10/02/las-vegas-shooters-father-bingo-bruce-lived-colorful-life-crime-and-deception.html

Stephen Paddock's father was an infamous robber who spent years on the FBI's most wanted list.

[Alf]

This guy was apparently a multi-millionaire real estate investor who owns a couple of planes.

[Liberty4eva]

I think, for a lot of Americans, when mass shootings happen, it makes them less likely to want more controls because they think they need guns to protect themselves.

Britain illustrates that you don't need guns to cause mass death. All you need is a car and big crowd of people. How many of you in the UK are in favor of greater background checks and restrictions on who can own a car?

[iRyan]

I don't get why the sell assault weapons in America, I mean, fair enough, I could understand a handgun, to keep in a bedside drawer or something, but a ****ing machine gun? What possible reason does a normal citizen need that for?

The fact that he was able to buy ten of those is ****ing frightening

[Cherie]

Britain illustrates that you don't need guns to cause mass death. All you need is a car and big crowd of people. How many of you in the UK are in favor of greater background checks and restrictions on who can own a car?

How can you compare the two? Most people buy cars to get from a to b, what do people buy guns for? Especially automatic weapons, it's not for taking pot shots at squirrels

[bots]

"Gun Violence Archive, a website that tracks incidents and crimes involving guns across the United States, said Sunday night's attack was the 273rd mass shooting in the country this year."


So the UK is not the same :umm2:

[Crimson Dynamo]

On Texas college campuses, since August it has become legal for a student with a permit to carry a hidden handgun to class...

[Alf]

Where do we stop with rules and regulations?

Do they also have bag checks in hotels? Cameras in hotel rooms?

Bag checks on buses, tubes?

How about every person gets given body armour to wear while outside? but how would that help? and would everyone wear it, some people don't even wear seat belts to protect you in case of a car crash.


You can have as many rules and regulations as you want, and no matter how much security you have, if a psychopath is gonna kill people, then unless you know it's coming (which you don't) then you're not gonna stop them, they will find a way whatever.

Americans think if you take their guns away, that their government could become tyrannical and they'd be unable to defend themselves against them.

If you tried to take their guns away, there would be far more deaths then what you've had in the country this year, do you want that?


Incidents like yesterday are very rare, that's why they are such big news, if they was regular, you'd just brush it off. What you don't need to do is overreact.

Last week a man walked into a church at shot it up, killing one and injuring others. It was only thanks to someone else having a gun, that they were able to keep the gunman held until officers arrived. There was no outcry for gun-control after this.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/26/funeral-set-for-tennessee-woman-shot-at-church.html

The extreme situation of yesterday makes people overreact.But situations like yesterday are very, very rare.

[Crimson Dynamo]

11,000 people killed in the USA so far this year by guns

Around 40 every day

[Alf]

11,000 people killed in the USA so far this year by guns

Around 40 every dayIf you tried to take their guns away from them, it would be millions. Civil war.

[Crimson Dynamo]

32 people a YEAR are killed by guns in UK

[Nicky91]

This guy was apparently a multi-millionaire real estate investor who owns a couple of planes.

very interesting NOT, i don't care about this loser :rolleyes:

[Alf]

France has the one of the strictest gun-laws, that didn't stop the massacre at the Bataclan concert hall, where 90 people were killed.

If it's gonna happen it will happen with or without gun laws.

[bots]

If they didnt have such ready access to guns, there would not be the killings on the scale currently. They have just agreed to relax the rules on the use of silencers now, so in the future mass killings can occur and no-one will even hear it happening. That's not learning, being progressive and trying to tackle the problem

[Alf]

Heroin and Cocaine (both killers) are illegal in this country, does that stop criminals from getting it?

I've even heard talk that they should be made legal to cut down the deaths from people not knowing what they are taking.

[Nicky91]

Heroin and Cocaine (both killers) are illegal in this country, does that stop criminals from getting it?

I've even heard talk that they should be made legal to cut down the deaths from people not knowing what they are taking.

no it doesn't stop criminals from getting it, so if guns are made illegal, they will find out another way to obtain several guns i think

[lewis111]

Heroin and Cocaine (both killers) are illegal in this country, does that stop criminals from getting it?

I've even heard talk that they should be made legal to cut down the deaths from people not knowing what they are taking.

No, but smoking and alcohol are legal and kill many many more people than illegal drugs do
People will still be able to obtain guns the numbers of deaths would drop dramatically - there's no point in saying "some will still die so let's just let everyone still have guns and keep the death number high"

[bots]

Heroin and Cocaine (both killers) are illegal in this country, does that stop criminals from getting it?

I've even heard talk that they should be made legal to cut down the deaths from people not knowing what they are taking.

of course they could still get guns, just like they can in the UK, but its the scale of the problem. Its magnified because guns are so readily available. How many 10 year old kids have access to guns in the UK? In the USA its the norm. In many ghettos, 10 year olds shoot and kill each other

Banning guns in the USA may take generations to have a serious impact, it doesn't mean it shouldn't be done

[Alf]

of course they could still get guns, just like they can in the UK, but its the scale of the problem. Its magnified because guns are so readily available. How many 10 year old kids have access to guns in the UK? In the USA its the norm. In many ghettos, 10 year olds shoot and kill each otherThere are massive checks to buy a gun in the US, 10 year olds would only be able to get one on the black market, which would still be there regardless.

[RichardG]

This discussion is so bizarre. It would be like the UK's response to the growing acid attack problem being to make acid more readily available, making it significantly easier for more attacks to take place. Obviously things like bleach can already be bought but perhaps some carborane acid could now be offered at your local Tesco. It just doesn't make any sense. I am very happy that I don't live in the US.

[Alf]

I couldn't care less if they banned guns or not. I'm just saying there's an argument both ways, and situations like yesterday always bring an overreaction.

[Alf]

The guns used yesterday are already illegal in the US, so gun laws didn't stop yesterday's massacre happening.

[Oliver_W]

It all seems rather well planned to be a a lone nutjob....unless the noise was pissing him off im calling terrorism...probably radicalised in his care home.

Even if he was a nutter, he was clearly a clever nutter, as he made hella money through speculative investments. So yeah, even if the cheese slid off his cracker, he'd still be capable of planning something like that, I'd imagine.

The other option is that he had ISIS' help,as their official channels claim he had recently converted to islam, and was doing it for them.

[Nicky91]

nothing to do with ISIS i think :shrug:

[Niamh.]

I couldn't care less if they banned guns or not. I'm just saying there's an argument both ways, and situations like yesterday always bring an overreaction.

Not sure you can really "over react" to a situation like this one tbf

[Oliver_W]

nothing to do with ISIS i think :shrug:

The claim is being investigated, so we'll see!

[Alf]

Not sure you can really "over react" to a situation like this one tbfI'm talking about overreacting to getting the second amendment scrapped, by using this situation.

[Niamh.]

I'm talking about overreacting to getting the second amendment scrapped, by using this situation.

Still not an over reaction imo it's situations just like these that are main reasons why gun laws should be looked at

[Alf]

Still not an over reaction imo it's a situations just like these that are main reasons why gun laws should be looked atLike I already said, the guns used yesterday are already illegal.

[Niamh.]

Like I already said, the guns used yesterday are already illegal.

Indeed but apparently it's easy enough to turn a legal gun into one according to this article, so my point stands :

Exemptions do exist in the 30-year-old automatic weapons ban that make it possible for a civilian to attain one. And more likely, many technical hacks, some legal and some not, enable gun enthusiasts to turn their semi-automatic rifles into deadlier, rapid-fire weapons.

"In this country in general and especially in Nevada, it’s extremely easy for someone like this shooter to amass a giant arsenal of weapons that even without modifications are very dangerous and accurate over great distances," says Mike McLively, an attorney at the Law Center to Prevent Gun Violence. "And then there are all these modifications to amplify their destructive capability, both legal and illegal."

John Sullivan, the lead engineer for gun access group Defense Distributed, puts it more simply: "Converting a semi-automatic to fully automatic is very, very easy," he says. "At the end of the day, machine guns are easy to make."
https://www.wired.com/story/las-vegas-shooting-automatic-rifle/

[Nicky91]

so basically DIY gun creating manual :worry:

[Withano]

I personally think, to start with asap, bullets should be made illegal - they can still have their right to bear arms, they're super in to that - but using, buying, selling, or having bullets will be illegal. Then there'd have to be a generation or more of phasing weaponry out slowly, it will never be an overnight thing.
Americans are taught their rights from an early age, and some bloke decided hundreds of years ago it was their right to carry a gun (he made that decision when mass murder was quite impossible), and they just stick with it, even though its obviously ridiculous. Unfortunately, this will happen again. And it still wouldn't be that difficult for the next guy, cos nothings gonna change as a result of this.

[Niamh.]

I personally think, to start with asap, bullets should be made illegal - they can still have their right to bear arms, they're super in to that - but using, buying, selling, or having bullets will be illegal. Then there'd have to be a generation or more of phasing weaponry out slowly, it will never be an overnight thing.
Americans are taught their rights from an early age, and some bloke decided hundreds of years ago it was their right to carry a gun (he made that decision when mass murder was quite impossible), and they just stick with it, even though its obviously ridiculous. Unfortunately, this will happen again. And it still wouldn't be that difficult for the next guy, cos nothings gonna change as a result of this.

Of course it won't not with the NRA paying for Presidents.

[Alf]

What drove this 64 year old millionaire with no criminal record to commit this atrocity and then kill himself?


The conspiracy theory's are out today, and I'm sure they'll continue for a long, long time.

Was he a lone wolf psychopath? was he working for an organisation? was he a patsy?


It's a puzzling one.

[Niamh.]

What drove this 64 year old millionaire with no criminal record to commit this atrocity and then kill himself?


The conspiracy theory's are out today, and I'm sure they'll continue for a long, long time.

Was he a lone wolf psychopath? was he working for an organisation? was he a patsy?


It's a puzzling one.

I doubt anyone will ever know tbh, how do you even attempt to get into a mind like that?

I've heard he had gambling debts but so what? Why would that make him want to shoot a load of innocent people at a concert?

[Crimson Dynamo]

Lats face facts guns make people feel important and people like that, its a basic human need that they fulfil.


This perps's father had a degree or notoriety and also had suicidal thoughts. He was described from what I read as a diffident arrogant man and his life of crime he sounds to me like a psychopath and this guy could have been too and wanted to go out like his dad. Sadly he had the means to buy lots of guns

[Cherie]

What drove this 64 year old millionaire with no criminal record to commit this atrocity and then kill himself?


The conspiracy theory's are out today, and I'm sure they'll continue for a long, long time.

Was he a lone wolf psychopath? was he working for an organisation? was he a patsy?


It's a puzzling one.

I expect his Mrs who was overseas at the time will have some answers, he did'nt just "snap" it was carefully planned, he checked in with 10 suitcases full of guns..he had a room overlooking the event was that coincidence or did he request a certain room ...

[bots]

The typical reason for doing something like this (from the non-fanatic) is to be remembered and that implies some form of mental illness resulting in that compulsion.

There really doesn't need to be a reason, there is no rational reason for committing such an act, its only an excuse

[Tom4784]

The US gun laws are indefensible and are ultimately an underlined example of greed vs morality. A hundred schools could get shot up and thousands of children could die yet nothing will be done because gun owners that are against gun control are self entitled enough to believe that their right to bear arms is worth more than the thousands of lives lost to gun violence every year in the US.

Guns should not be widely available to all, stringent checks should be carried out on all potential gun owners while licenses should be mandatory nationwide. Finally there's no reason why automatic and military grade weapons should be available to the public. Shotguns and Rifles are needed in rural areas due to the danger wild animals can possess but there's no reason to justify being able to walk into a supermarket and being able to buy an assault rifle or any automatic weapon.

Responsible gun owners should have nothing to fear from the prospect of gun control, it's probably rare for most gun owners to actually even touch their guns since most of the time they'll be safely locked away.

[Northern Monkey]

I’d bet the fact that this guy had money made it easier to obtain full auto AR’s.Possibly black market?I’d bet they not cheap.Like over $10,000.Unless of course he converted legal semi autos.

[jaxie]

What drove this 64 year old millionaire with no criminal record to commit this atrocity and then kill himself?


The conspiracy theory's are out today, and I'm sure they'll continue for a long, long time.

Was he a lone wolf psychopath? was he working for an organisation? was he a patsy?


It's a puzzling one.

I've been thinking about this a lot as this particular shooter doesn't have any apparent criminal history. Maybe something in his mind snapped though that seems at odds with the planning involved. I did wonder if maybe someone else was involved as well. Do they know for sure that he shot himself?

[Vicky.]

Proper shat myself when I heard about this, my parents are currently touring America and were going to vegas as one of their stops :S Luckily they were in Miami when this happened so they are fine.

Horrible though, and yes, tighter gun laws would help...but not many Americans would go for it

[Niamh.]

I've been thinking about this a lot as this particular shooter doesn't have any apparent criminal history. Maybe something in his mind snapped though that seems at odds with the planning involved. I did wonder if maybe someone else was involved as well. Do they know for sure that he shot himself?

They stated that he shot himself so I'd imagine they were fairly sure that was the case

[Jack_]

Deplorable story

[user104658]

I expect his Mrs who was overseas at the time will have some answers, he did'nt just "snap" it was carefully planned, he checked in with 10 suitcases full of guns..he had a room overlooking the event was that coincidence or did he request a certain room ...

You're imagining a psychological break to go from normal one day to looking like a typical Hollywood "loony" running around wild / crazy / incoherent the next. That's not what it looks like. These things take months to set in, and last for months longer, and often people are still more than capable of "acting" like the person they were before whilst internally believing, and carrying out, completely bizarre impulses.

Some people who have developed unseen psychological problems spend YEARS coldly and methodically planning out an action that they've developed a compulsion or fixation for... all the while going to work every morning and chatting with the neighbours over the fence.

[UserSince2005]

Ive seen the picture of the shooter dead with his head blown out.

And **** that carpet in that hotel room is ugly, youd think theyd furnish the rooms more nicely for such a famous hotel.

[DemolitionRed]

There are hundreds of amateur conspiracy theories online atm and if you watch enough of them, you will be convinced that Paddock was either not the gunman or not the lone gunman.

I'm a keen follower of Stefan Molyneux and so when I spotted this video, I had to watch it. Its a long video but there's a lot of information in it that I hadn't previously seen and in my view, its worth watching.

BCBYAWyFEqM

[Northern Monkey]

There are hundreds of amateur conspiracy theories online atm and if you watch enough of them, you will be convinced that Paddock was either not the gunman or not the lone gunman.

I'm a keen follower of Stefan Molyneux and so when I spotted this video, I had to watch it. Its a long video but there's a lot of information in it that I hadn't previously seen and in my view, its worth watching.

BCBYAWyFEqM

:thumbs:

We have something in common.I like Stefan too.
Will watch it later.I saw the one before ‘The truth about the Las Vegas shooter’ or something.

[Tom4784]

I'm talking about overreacting to getting the second amendment scrapped, by using this situation.

The second amendment's reason for existing is outdated. The whole idea of it's conception was to allow the people to form a militia against the government if the government was acting against the interests of the public's freedoms. This was back when the height of military technology was a cannon and a settlement could feasibly hold off a military attack due to the fact that it would come down to numbers and guns.

Ain't no pistols, rifles or automatic weapon is going to hold off a Drone strike. It's an ammendment that no longer is feasible or applicable.

There is literally no reason for this law to exist other than pure greed.

[Northern Monkey]

Apparently in abit of a breakthrough the NRA are considering a ban on bump stocks.The NRA hardly ever make consessions on any bans.Also Trump is thinking of looking into it and the Republicans too.

Ref:ITV News

[Niamh.]

Apparently in abit of a breakthrough the NRA are considering a ban on bump stocks.The NRA hardly ever make consessions on any bans.Also Trump is thinking of looking into it and the Republicans too.

Ref:ITV News

Fingers crossed something comes of it .

[Tom4784]

I imagine it's just lip service until the story goes away and they can continue unopposed.

It's always the same, a major shooting happens, changes are promised and then they are never carried out because the public's attention moves onto the next story so there's no obligation to change anything.

No major changes will ever happen when it comes to guns in America. The belligerent kind of Gun owners value their guns over other people's lives, the gun industry likes money too much and the government REALLY likes the tax money it brings in.

[bots]

For guns to be sorted out in America, it requires some long term, joined up thinking, something the Americans have a very poor track record on. I give it zero chance of success.

[lewis111]

As had been said many times - if no neccessary changes were made after 20 young children were murdered a few years back, it's unimaginable to think what would have to happen for changes to be made