Is this offensive?

[Daniel.]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNtiqt-WkAMTtai?format=jpg&name=medium

I saw people on Twittwr get all offended and I dont get it? I hate transphobia but ts accepting imo?

[Marsh.]

I don't think it's offensive, but I don't think it's funny either. :shrug:

[Daniel.]

Guess you cant vote

[Daniel.]

I think its accepting bc its showing Cait is a real woman

[Marsh.]

Guess you cant vote

Discrimination.

[Epic.]

I honestly don't care and I doubt anyone dying for a piss would care either

[Daniel.]

If you dont care WHY POST

[Jordan.]

Where's offensive and funny option (but no it's not)

[Matthew.]

I honestly don't care and I doubt anyone dying for a piss would care either

EXACTLY. If i need a piss or a **** and the turtle is making it’s way out the shell, I am not going to refuse to use this ****ter purely bc there is the way the door is decirated.

[Marsh.]

I don't think the point the OP was going for was about whether you would or wouldn't use the bathroom pictured. :unsure:

[Rob!]

EXACTLY. If i need a piss or a **** and the turtle is making it’s way out the shell, I am not going to refuse to use this ****ter purely bc there is the way the door is decirated.

Where's the 'I found this more offensive than the OP' option?

[T*]

if they were really gonna be accepting though they’d have a unisex bathroom
just seems like a really stale attempt at a joke and trying too hard to be politically incorrect

[JerseyWins]

I don't think it's offensive, but I don't think it's funny either. :shrug:
This :joker:

I honestly don't care and I doubt anyone dying for a piss would care either
:joker:

[Withano]

I find the mens/disabled combo more offensive tbh (although i do find it quite tasteless). Why are disabled women being told to go in the mens?

[Crimson Dynamo]

if he had Chinese eye folds, yes

[Jamie89]

I think this is great. I actually find it kind of progressive more than anything else, if you think of traditional male/female bathroom symbols of men wearing trousers and women wearing skirts, I'd consider that to be more 'offensive' in 2017 due to it being an enforcement of outdated gender stereotypes. Whereas this is enforcing that a trans woman is legitimately accepted as a woman and yeah, it makes me happy to think that. I suppose it could be seen as a positive thing that people are complaining because I imagine they're doing so out of respect for transsexuals or because they feel like it's making fun of them, so although I consider that to be misguided there's good intention there.
Saying all that though I don't know how I'd feel if I was transsexual or if I was Caitlyn, if they'd feel like they were being made fun of, but yeah I don't see it like that personally when I look at it, I appreciate the symbolism of it and it actually works just as a piece of art in that respect and a comment on how we've moved forward and where we are in 2017 with acceptance of trans people (as well as Caitlyn's impact in all of that), and the replacing of older gender stereotypes. And with the recent thing of Trump amending laws to do with transgender bathrooms it could be seen as a progressive political statement too. I love it.

[Vicky.]

I don't find it offensive but it bothers me, probably in a different way to those saying its offensive. I don't think that having a male person on a female loo door is right. And I also think that having the mens and disabled together is wrong :shrug:

Seems whoever did this is trying too hard to be politically correct tbh. Caitlyn could use the female loos (shes post op after all isn't she?) without this rubbish.

Genuinely do not understand why places who do things like this do not just make a ****ing unisex loo rather than this rubbish or putting up signs saying 'male' and 'anyone who identifies as anything but male' like I saw in a Uni not long ago. If we are no longer separating by sex, then just have them all together makes so much more sense than this crap

Answer, no but its not funny either.

[Cal.]

It doesn't offend me and it's quirky.

[lewis111]

May have been offensive if Caitlyn wasn't such a cow but idc cause she is

[Brillopad]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DNtiqt-WkAMTtai?format=jpg&name=medium

I saw people on Twittwr get all offended and I dont get it? I hate transphobia but ts accepting imo?

I don’t know about offensive but I can’t stand him/her. Has he had the op then?

I find him/her very attention seeking so a bit dubious of his/her motives.

[Jamie89]

The mens/disabled thing is probably just because they only have the two toilets (just guessing obviously) and it had to be merged with one, I don't see why that's an issue?

[Matthew.]

Where's the 'I found this more offensive than the OP' option?

:joker: was feeling a bit blunt at half past 1 this morning

Sorry for the graphic details guys :hee:

[UserSince2005]

I think these pictures would mean a lot of straight pigs would think they have a right to go into the women’s toilets and perv because they believe there is a man ok the front door :mad:

[Vicky.]

The mens/disabled thing is probably just because they only have the two toilets (just guessing obviously) and it had to be merged with one, I don't see why that's an issue?

Because...disabled women exist too? Who would not be comfortable at all going into the mens loo.

[MTVN]

I guess the mens/disabled is just a single toilet rather than a shared bathroom

[Vicky.]

I guess the mens/disabled is just a single toilet rather than a shared bathroom

Even in that case though, a disabled loo should be separate as...well able bodied people aren't meant to use disabled loos.

I do not understand why they didn't just make one gender neutral, and the other disabled, if they are going to let men into the womens anyway (which I do agree with, with post-op trans people only) Would make much more sense :laugh:

[Jamie89]

Because...disabled women exist too? Who would not be comfortable at all going into the mens loo.If it was disabled/women's though it would be the same problem, disabled men using the same toilet as women. Although like MTVN said it's probably just a single toilet if it's kitted out for disabled access so it shouldn't be a problem anyway?

[Vicky.]

If it was disabled/women's though it would be the same problem, disabled men using the same toilet as women. Although like MTVN said it's probably just a single toilet if it's kitted out for disabled access so it shouldn't be a problem anyway?

which is why, if they are making the loos gender neutral, they should have had the disabled one separate.

Also a man is more likely to be comfortable going into the womens loos than vice versa. Most women are nervous in isolated situations with strange men. Hell even most transmen I have read about do not want to use the mens loos for fear of being attacked. I am not a man so don't know this for sure, but according to male friends its not scary to go into a place full of women, though apparently it would maybe be embarrassing.

But yeah, even with all of that said, disabled loos should always be separate if there is the option to do that. Which there clearly is in this case. Change the door sign to disabled only. And allow the men and women in the womens together, which is what they are doing anyway.

[King Gizzard]

it legitimises her being a woman now so it doesn't offend me, no

[Eddie.]

I don't think it's offensive, but I don't think it's funny either. :shrug:

.

[Nicky91]

no, not offensive i think

[Jamie89]

which is why, if they are making the loos gender neutral, they should have had the disabled one separate.

Also a man is more likely to be comfortable going into the womens loos than vice versa. Most women are nervous in isolated situations with strange men. Hell even most transmen I have read about do not want to use the mens loos for fear of being attacked. I am not a man so don't know this for sure, but according to male friends its not scary to go into a place full of women, though apparently it would maybe be embarrassing.

But yeah, even with all of that said, disabled loos should always be separate if there is the option to do that. Which there clearly is in this case. Change the door sign to disabled only. And allow the men and women in the womens together, which is what they are doing anyway.

My point though wasn't that disabled men might be uncomfortable using the women's loo, it was that the women you've described might have a problem with them doing that, so the result would still be men and women sharing a loo whichever way round it is.
Personally I think loos should be gender neutral and in this case what you've suggested would be best, having one gender neutral and one disabled. But a lot of people would have a problem with that too (I'd imagine more women would feel uncomfortable about that than how it is now) which is probably why they've done it this way. Whether they changed it to one gender neutral and one disabled, or switched it to female/disabled and male, or kept it how it is, men and women will be sharing a loo regardless. But if the problem is that some women are uncomfortable sharing with men, this set up is surely the best of those options as less women will be affected?

[Vicky.]

My point though wasn't that disabled men might be uncomfortable using the women's loo, it was that the women you've described might have a problem with them doing that, so the result would still be men and women sharing a loo whichever way round it is.
Personally I think loos should be gender neutral and in this case what you've suggested would be best, having one gender neutral and one disabled. But a lot of people would have a problem with that too (I'd imagine more women would feel uncomfortable about that than how it is now) which is probably why they've done it this way. Whether they changed it to one gender neutral and one disabled, or switched it to female/disabled and male, or kept it how it is, men and women will be sharing a loo regardless. But if the problem is that some women are uncomfortable sharing with men, this set up is surely the best of those options as less women will be affected?

Ahh right I see :laugh: Yeah didn't think of it that way round

Should still be a disabled and a gender neutral though. Disabled people are less able to wait (generalizing obviously, not every single disabled person) which is why I also have a huge issue with able bodied people using disabled loos in general, totally ignoring the other issues

I would personally be happy for all loos to be gender neutral in the years to come. As long as they are proper stalls, ceiling to floor rather than the pitiful things we have now where sometimes you can see the other person.

How would more women have an issue and be affected by it being neutral and disabled though? I don't get that? Looks like the womens is already neutral? Might be totally missing the point again though like just now :laugh:

[thesheriff443]

So its him before on the mens toilet and her after on the ladies toilet?

[Jamie89]

Ahh right I see [emoji23] Yeah didn't think of it that way round

Should still be a disabled and a gender neutral though. Disabled people are less able to wait (generalizing obviously, not every single disabled person) which is why I also have a huge issue with able bodied people using disabled loos in general, totally ignoring the other issues

I would personally be happy for all loos to be gender neutral in the years to come. As long as they are proper stalls, ceiling to floor rather than the pitiful things we have now where sometimes you can see the other person.

How would more women have an issue and be affected by it being neutral and disabled though? I don't get that? Looks like the womens is already neutral? Might be totally missing the point again though like just now [emoji23]

Another reason why it's better to have it merged with the mens rather than the womens haha [emoji14]


I meant by that that if it was gender neutral and disabled, then all able bodied women would be affected (in having to share with men), whereas in this case only disabled women are affected. (I'm not saying disabled women's feelings are less important, I'm just talking purely about numbers, and that if they're trying to please the most people - which they probably are with them being a business, then this way would make sense. If some people are going to feel uncomfortable regardless, then have it so as few people feel uncomfortable as possible.) The way it currently is, the womens isn't neutral.

[Vicky.]

Another reason why it's better to have it merged with the mens rather than the womens haha [emoji14]


I meant by that that if it was gender neutral and disabled, then all able bodied women would be affected (in having to share with men), whereas in this case only disabled women are affected. (I'm not saying disabled women's feelings are less important, I'm just talking purely about numbers, and that if they're trying to please the most people - which they probably are with them being a business, then this way would make sense. If some people are going to feel uncomfortable regardless, then have it so as few people feel uncomfortable as possible.) The way it currently is, the womens isn't neutral.
But it is? Its neutral anyway, so making it neutral and disabled makes no difference to the women, as currently its neutral anyway going by the door pics anyway. Except that disabled people would get their own space.

[MTVN]

But is it offensive to have a pic of an able bodied athlete on a disabled loo :think:

[Vicky.]

But is it offensive to have a pic of an able bodied athlete on a disabled loo :think:

Hadn't thought of that actually. A lot of disabilities are invisible I guess, but Jenner didn't have any disabilities as far as I know :S

Hasn't been thought through well at all tbh. The rush to be 'inclusive' has clouded judgements I think :laugh:

I think its all a publicity stunt anyway. And its clearly working. Though...it would help the business if people knew where it actually was. All publicity is good publicity, apparently D:

[Cherie]

But is it offensive to have a pic of an able bodied athlete on a disabled loo :think:

great point, but then they would have to squeeze in an able bodied male sports, plus a disabled male and female disabled sports person, I think they need to return to the drawing board

[Jamie89]

But it is? Its neutral anyway, so making it neutral and disabled makes no difference to the women, as currently its neutral anyway going by the door pics anyway. Except that disabled people would get their own space.I'm confused [emoji23] The womens is just a women's, it's the mens that's neutral (inclusive of men and disabled women)?

[Vicky.]

I'm confused [emoji23] The womens is just a women's, it's the mens that's neutral (inclusive of men and disabled women)?

Depends how you define women really. Woman is adult human female to me.

We always end up going round in circles on these threads as our views seem to be polar opposites :laugh:

[Jamie89]

But is it offensive to have a pic of an able bodied athlete on a disabled loo :think:I don't think so in this case. It's just that they wanted to use pictures of Caitlyn/Bruce and that's what she was famous for when she was Bruce. Both pictures represent her at her peak of fame/public recognition (but as different genders obviously) to make their statement easily recognisable, I think most people would see that. If it was different pictures and so it wasnt obviously Caitlyn/Bruce then there wouldn't be much point in them doing it.

[Vicky.]

I don't think so in this case. It's just that they wanted to use pictures of Caitlyn/Bruce and that's what she was famous for when she was Bruce. Both pictures represent her at her peak of fame/public recognition (but as different genders obviously) to make their statement easily recognisable, I think most people would see that. If it was different pictures and so it wasnt obviously Caitlyn/Bruce then there wouldn't be much point in them doing it.

Which is why its so very obviously a publicity stunt tbh.

Working very well, going by how viral it seems to have gone. Definitely got people talking, at least.

[Jamie89]

Depends how you define women really. Woman is adult human female to me.

We always end up going round in circles on these threads as our views seem to be polar opposites [emoji23]Ah I see what you mean, because it's inclusive of transsexual women it makes it neutral? Yeah I think we just disagree on that tbh [emoji23] I still see that as being female only.

[MTVN]

Didn't realise that was Bruce pre-Caitlin actually, thought it was just a random athlete lol

[Vicky.]

Ah I see what you mean, because it's inclusive of transsexual women it makes it neutral? Yeah I think we just disagree on that tbh [emoji23] I still see that as being female only.

Not really...as post-op transsexual women I do agree should be in the womens.

Its when we go a little deeper than that, and it becomes 'but you are asking people to have surgery to use the female loos' and such, where it becomes an issue for me.

Post-op fine
Pre-op not

But this then turns to what I said above...with the logical conclusion to that argument being 'anyone who identifies as a woman is a woman'. Which I totally disagree with as female is just a biological state. You cannot identify your way into or out of it tbh

Minefield. But glad it can finally be actually talked about as this time last year there would have been cries of 'transphobia' for even me saying 'adult human female' D:

[Crimson Dynamo]

if you cut a glory hole in her mouth and did what the hole was intended for then i guess people would be like "ew gross"

[thesheriff443]

if you cut a glory hole in her mouth and did what the hole was intended for then i guess people would be like "ew gross"

You must be having a boring sunday afternoon.

[thesheriff443]

Most people would not realise or care that its the same person, I'm not offended

[Jamie89]

Not really...as post-op transsexual women I do agree should be in the womens.

Its when we go a little deeper than that, and it becomes 'but you are asking people to have surgery to use the female loos' and such, where it becomes an issue for me.

Post-op fine
Pre-op not

But this then turns to what I said above...with the logical conclusion to that argument being 'anyone who identifies as a woman is a woman'. Which I totally disagree with as female is just a biological state. You cannot identify your way into or out of it tbh

Minefield. But glad it can finally be actually talked about as this time last year there would have been cries of 'transphobia' for even me saying 'adult human female' D:

I don't understand then what you mean about the womens currently being neutral? Because Caitlyn is post-op and there's the traditional women's sign next to the door.

[Vicky.]

I don't understand then what you mean about the womens currently being neutral? Because Caitlyn is post-op and there's the traditional women's sign next to the door.

Yes Caitlyn is an actual transsexual and is post op. Most people who 'identify' as transwomen though are not 'transsexual' or 'post-op' though. And they will take Caitylns photo to mean they are also welcome. Which means its gender neutral

Is my problem.

The traditional womans sign annoys me tbh. Should just be labelled male and female. The dress thing has always annoyed me. Putting on a dress does not make anyone a woman, and not wearing a dress doesn't make one not a woman. I know I overthink that though. Just something thats always pissed me off (being 'non-binary' myself)

[Marsh.]

I find the mens/disabled combo more offensive tbh (although i do find it quite tasteless). Why are disabled women being told to go in the mens?
Maybe that side of the loos is split in two inside?

I've come across that before.

[Marsh.]

Even in that case though, a disabled loo should be separate as...well able bodied people aren't meant to use disabled loos.

I do not understand why they didn't just make one gender neutral, and the other disabled, if they are going to let men into the womens anyway (which I do agree with, with post-op trans people only) Would make much more sense [emoji23]
Depends. If they only have two single toilets to be used by customers then one of them is adapted for disabled use then it has to be shared.

[Marsh.]

which is why, if they are making the loos gender neutral, they should have had the disabled one separate.

Also a man is more likely to be comfortable going into the womens loos than vice versa. Most women are nervous in isolated situations with strange men. Hell even most transmen I have read about do not want to use the mens loos for fear of being attacked. I am not a man so don't know this for sure, but according to male friends its not scary to go into a place full of women, though apparently it would maybe be embarrassing.

But yeah, even with all of that said, disabled loos should always be separate if there is the option to do that. Which there clearly is in this case. Change the door sign to disabled only. And allow the men and women in the womens together, which is what they are doing anyway.
I don't think it makes a difference though? You've still got the disabled toilet open to both sexes?

[Marsh.]

if you cut a glory hole in her mouth and did what the hole was intended for then i guess people would be like "ew gross"
Bit high up for a hole. Are you gonna use a step ladder?

[Greg!]

I feel like people who are offended by it don't even know what exactly they're offended by, they're just jumping on the bandwagon

[Vicky.]

I don't think it makes a difference though? You've still got the disabled toilet open to both sexes?

Disabled toilets are always open to both sexes though :suspect:

I don't think ablebodied people and disabled people should be sharing loos. Mainly as...disabled people (in general) are less able to wait. And as disabled people are relatively rare, its unlikely that there is going to be a situation where a disabled person has to wait for the loo, IF only disabled people use it

Does that make sense? Not sure I am explaining myself well at all.

[Marsh.]

Disabled toilets are always open to both sexes though :suspect:

I don't think ablebodied people and disabled people should be sharing loos. Mainly as...disabled people (in general) are less able to wait. And as disabled people are relatively rare, its unlikely that there is going to be a situation where a disabled person has to wait for the loo, IF only disabled people use it

Does that make sense? Not sure I am explaining myself well at all.
Oh I thought your issue was disabled women having to share with men when disabled loos are almost always unisex anyway. [emoji23]

It might be that the one door leads to two doors inside. I've come across that before. :think:

[Vicky.]

Oh I thought your issue was disabled women having to share with men when disabled loos are almost always unisex anyway. [emoji23]

It might be that the one door leads to two doors inside. I've come across that before. :think:

Well to start with my issue was with disabled women having to go into the able bodied mens loo.

Then became disabled people in general sharing their (fought for) spaces with able bodied people.

Then just a bit of rage that it clearly had not been thought through in general.

Then the realization that it HAS been thought through and was just a publicity stunt to start with :joker:

A range of emotions felt here by me

[MTVN]

Feel like there has been some good discussion over toilet layout in this thread

[Marsh.]

Well to start with my issue was with disabled women having to go into the able bodied mens loo.

Then became disabled people in general sharing their (fought for) spaces with able bodied people.

Then just a bit of rage that it clearly had not been thought through in general.

Then the realization that it HAS been thought through and was just a publicity stunt to start with :joker:

A range of emotions felt here by me

I don't think the location of the disabled toilets was the attention they were going for though. [emoji23]

The silly sods should've put Caitlin's picture on the disabled toilet if they really wanted the internet to explode. :hehe:

[James]

Isn't the point of the pictures to say 'we're okay with people who have had sex changes using the female toilet'... because there is some controversy in America about that just now.

[Vicky.]

Isn't the point of the pictures to say 'we're okay with people who have had sex changes using the female toilet'... because there is some controversy in America about that just now.

Yes thats the point. So its weird that its being classed as transphobic. Mind you, pretty much everything is classed as transphobic right now D:

Have seen so many say its transphobic. Have seen many others saying about the disabled loo being unfair. And then some saying that womens loos should be female only, and the same for the mens (a view I do agree with, but not for post-op transsexuals. And oddly enough, transmen don't seem to want into mens loos for some reason...) They wanted publicity, they got it. Just for the wrong reasons it seems :laugh:

[Vicky.]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/allen/2017/11/01/allen-restaurant-blasted-bathroom-doors-feature-caitlyn-jenner

More on this, explaining why its apparently transphobic. From what I can make of the ridiculous arguments, its because 'Caitlyn' was always a woman and has never ever been a man. Madness :joker:

Includes a reply from the restaurant too.

Also a long twitter thread about it

https://twitter.com/DomDiFurio/status/925142834428239878

This has now been posted by 3 of my friends on FB. Very viral :laugh:

[Ant.]

I don't think it's offensive, but I don't think it's funny either. :shrug:

.

[Marsh.]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/allen/2017/11/01/allen-restaurant-blasted-bathroom-doors-feature-caitlyn-jenner

More on this, explaining why its apparently transphobic. From what I can make of the ridiculous arguments, its because 'Caitlyn' was always a woman and has never ever been a man. Madness :joker:

Includes a reply from the restaurant too.

Also a long twitter thread about it

https://twitter.com/DomDiFurio/status/925142834428239878

This has now been posted by 3 of my friends on FB. Very viral [emoji23]
It's ridiculous because I doubt even Caitlyn herself would agree with that assessment. [emoji23]

[Vicky.]

It's ridiculous because I doubt even Caitlyn herself would agree with that assessment. [emoji23]

Well exactly. Caitlyn accepts she is male. And they want to look like a woman, fair enough. That is very different from actually being a female and always having been one. Its just such a stupid argument.