At least 27 dead in Texas mass shooting

[Will.]

Omg :(
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-41880511

[lewis111]

The attack happened at the First Baptist Church in Sutherland Springs in Wilson County.
Local ABC affiliate KSAT 12 reported the gunman entered the church at around 11:30 local time and began shooting.
Police told the outlet there were "multiple victims" and the gunman had been killed in the aftermath. The number of casualties is not yet clear.
Photos and video from the scene showed the area taped off by local law enforcement.

[Jake.]

:( wtf is going on atm

[UserSince2005]

this has muslim militants written all over it.

[lewis111]

I'm assuming it's too soon to talk about gun control

(It's too late btw)

[Marsh.]

But they need the guns to protect themselves. They deserve that right.

Imagine the death toll if they were actually under strict controls?

The statistics in our country are out of control because we don't have guns to protect ourselves from the criminals.

Right?

[UserSince2005]

But they need the guns to protect themselves. They deserve that right.

Imagine the death toll if they were actually under strict controls?

The statistics in our country are out of control because we don't have guns to protect ourselves from the criminals.

Right?

to be fair id rather be shot in the head in and die instantly in texas.

than die from a butual london stabbing

[Amy Jade]

Oh no :(

Hate hearing stuff like this

[RileyH]

RIP </3

[Oliver_W]

to be fair id rather be shot in the head in and die instantly in texas.

than die from a butual london stabbing

Apparently a gun attack and a knife attack have the same fatality rates, i.e. if someone attacked you with a knife, you'd be just as likely to die if you were attacked with a gun. While you can't exactly attack an entire church with a knife, I'd rather live in a country where I can legally defend myself.

[Marsh.]

You wouldn't quite need such extreme measures of defence in a country that actually controls itself.

[RichardG]

just another day in america

[Smithy]

Apparently a gun attack and a knife attack have the same fatality rates, i.e. if someone attacked you with a knife, you'd be just as likely to die if you were attacked with a gun. While you can't exactly attack an entire church with a knife, I'd rather live in a country where I can legally defend myself.

Like these 27 people defended themselves...

[Marsh.]

Apparently a gun attack and a knife attack have the same fatality rates, i.e. if someone attacked you with a knife, you'd be just as likely to die if you were attacked with a gun. While you can't exactly attack an entire church with a knife, I'd rather live in a country where I can legally defend myself.
That's it. The death toll would be much lower if he was waving a knife around.

[lewis111]

If someone walked into a church in Texas with a knife, I very very very highly doubt they would manage to kill even like 8 people - and that's pushing it a lot

[RichardG]

i am sympathetic to the victims and their families. but honestly, why is this even a story? if america refuses to acknowledge that their gun laws are utterly moronic then so be it. the frequency of these atrocities can be reduced, these incidents can be prevented. but they choose not to do anything about it. so let's not bore the rest of the world with the same repetitive arguments. let them deal with this mess themselves.

[Saph]

very kill bill volume 2 teas

[smudgie]

Tragic. R.I.P.
Those poor people murdered like that.
This wonderful world gets a little bit less wonderful by the day.:bawling:

[UserSince2005]

very kill bill volume 2 teas

gross

[Cherie]

Tragic. R.I.P.
Those poor people murdered like that.
This wonderful world gets a little bit less wonderful by the day.:bawling:

it does

[DemolitionRed]

It looks as though children are among the dead. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-11-05/live-feed-witnesses-say-15-people-are-down-after-gunman-opens-fire-texas-church

Thoughts to the families and survivors.

[waterhog]

just catching up on this - omg usa are having it bad. change is needed but where to begin ?

[Locke.]

just another day in america

It has been just as bad for attacks in Europe over the past couple of years.

[DemolitionRed]

It has been just as bad for attacks in Europe over the past couple of years.

No it hasn't. This is Americas 377th mass shooting this year.

[Niamh.]

this has muslim militants written all over it.

It's usually a white male when it's a mass shooting like this actually........

ooh look


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/devin-patrick-kelley-texas-church-sutherland-springs-who-is-gunman-shooting-attack-latest-dead-a8039341.html

[Oliver_W]

Dishonorable discharges are banned from owning firearms, so his guns must have been illegally obtained, so tighter gun control laws wouldn't have done much in his case anyway.

[Niamh.]

Dishonorable discharges are banned from owning firearms, so his guns must have been illegally obtained, so tighter gun control laws wouldn't have done much in his case anyway.

According to this article he bought it from a proper shop but would have just ticked "no" to the felony question so infact tighter gun laws and actually checking people out properly would absolutely have helped

On the federal government's firearm transaction record, which buyers must legally fill out, Kelley would have had to state that he had never been convicted of a felony. Both Kelley's assault counts likely went down as felonies. Lying on the firearms transaction record is an additional felony punishable by up to five years in jail.

Kelley bought a Ruger AR-556 rifle, used in the attack on the church in Sutherland Springs, in April 2016 from an Academy Sports & Outdoors store in San Antonio, a law enforcement official told CNN.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/texas-church-gunman-devin-patrick-gun-law-felon-domestic-violence-2017-11?r=US&IR=T

[Toy Soldier]

Dishonorable discharges are banned from owning firearms, so his guns must have been illegally obtained, so tighter gun control laws wouldn't have done much in his case anyway.

Of course it would. How easy do you think it is to get hold of an assault rifle - either legally OR illegally - in countries where they aren't widely owned by the population? How do you explain the fact that firearms killings in the US are sky high compared to every other western country?

Even for those who believe in the right to own a gun for personal protection... this is an AR-556:

http://www.ruger.com/products/ar556/images/over-AR556MPR.jpg


It's an assault rifle, pretty much the same as an AR-15, which is basically a downgraded M16... these are weapons of war used by the US military, they're not handbag pistols. It's utterly insane that you can walk into a shop and buy one.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Of course it would. How easy do you think it is to get hold of an assault rifle - either legally OR illegally - in countries where they aren't widely owned by the population? How do you explain the fact that firearms killings in the US are sky high compared to every other western country?

Even for those who believe in the right to own a gun for personal protection... this is an AR-556:

http://www.ruger.com/products/ar556/images/over-AR556MPR.jpg


It's an assault rifle, pretty much the same as an AR-15, which is basically a downgraded M16... these are weapons of war used by the US military, they're not handbag pistols. It's utterly insane that you can walk into a shop and buy one.

or buy one off a mate

[Toy Soldier]

or buy one off a mate

Well exactly... the argument that "criminals would still get them illegally" anyway is just daft. A tiny number, maybe, it's not that there are NO guns like this "out there" in the UK, but you'd need to be pretty well connected to get hold of one. In the US there are so many of these things in the general population, there are plenty available to whoever wants one - no checks required - for a couple of extra dollaz :shrug:.

There are also plenty of retailers who are simply not that arsed about who they sell to so long as the forms are filled in... and someone who is planning on using a gun for a mass shooting isn't exactly going to be worried about lying on the forms.

[Niamh.]

This video is really excellent on gun control and why it's proven to work despite the arguments against

mVuspKSjfgA

[Tom4784]

Another day, another shooting. America won't ever learn and people will keep getting killed. I've got sympathy for the victims and the families but I'm just completely jaded otherwise when it comes to shootings in America.

At this point, there's vats full of blood on the NRA's hands as their stranglehold on the government and their pure opposition to common sense is enabling all this death. They are just as warped and evil as the people who commit these shootings.

[Eddie.]

really devastating, I'm getting really fed up that there is a chance everyday, that when I wake up, I get this news, something must be done quickly!
Anyways, my condolences to the families of those injured or killed, or those even waiting for good or bad news...:(

[Crimson Dynamo]

the NRA will be wetting their pants at the member of public and his assault rifle firing at the shooter

[Niamh.]

:facepalm:

Trump says Texas church shooting caused by 'mental health problem' not guns

When asked whether U.S. gun control measures could have been the key to the Texas shooting, Trump replied, "Mental health is your problem here"
Trump — who has received political support from the National Rifle Association — has consistently been against implementing more rigorous domestic gun control laws
"Fortunately … somebody else had a gun that was shooting in the opposite direction," Trump said at the press conference

Trump: ‘Mental health problem,’ not guns, caused Texas shooting Trump: Texas shooting is a 'mental health problem,' not about guns
6 Hours Ago | 01:19
President Donald Trump said Monday he believed the Texas church shooting was caused by a "mental health problem," and not because of a problem with domestic gun laws.

When asked whether U.S. gun control measures could have been the key to the Texas shooting, Trump replied, "Mental health is your problem here."

"This isn't a guns situation," he said, before adding, "This is a mental health problem at the highest level. It's a very, very sad event."

At least 26 people were killed and about 20 others were wounded after a gunman opened fire during a Sunday service at a Texas church. The victims ranged in age from 5 to 72-years-old.

Speaking at a joint press conference in Tokyo, Japan, alongside Prime Minister Shinzo Abe, Trump described the shooter as "a very deranged individual."

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/11/06/trump-says-texas-church-shooting-caused-by-mental-health-problem-not-guns.html

[Tom4784]

Nothing is ever going to change, too many people in the US value their assault rifles over the mountains of dead people that these killing sprees have created.

[Toy Soldier]

It's an easy out of the debate for them, really. Yes, his desire to do this was caused by a mental health problem. It was enabled by his easy access to high powered assault weaponry. A violent and deranged individual anywhere could attack people, it's true, but the fact is, most of the time when it happens they don't even kill ONE person - let alone 27 people - before being stopped.

[Oliver_W]

How do you explain the fact that firearms killings in the US are sky high compared to every other western country?


Gun crime in any country is highest in dense urban areas, which America has a lot of. America also has a higher population than a lot of other countries which are used to compare gun crime stats.

[Niamh.]

Gun crime in any country is highest in dense urban areas, which America has a lot of. America also has a higher population than a lot of other countries which are used to compare gun crime stats.

Gun Control works. Australia is the perfect example of that :

Last year a Reuters analysis of Australian Bureau of Statistics figures showed that in 1996, Australia had had 311 murders, of which 98 involved guns. In 2014, when the population had increased from about 18 million to 23 million, 238 people were murdered, 35 by guns.

In other words, the likelihood of being murdered by gunshot fell by 72 per cent in that period, from 0.54 to 0.15 per 100,000 people, Reuters said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/las-vegas-shooting-australia-gun-laws-control-stephen-paddock-2nd-amendment-nevada-firearm-a7980671.html

[Oliver_W]

Gun Control works. Australia is the perfect example of that :

Last year a Reuters analysis of Australian Bureau of Statistics figures showed that in 1996, Australia had had 311 murders, of which 98 involved guns. In 2014, when the population had increased from about 18 million to 23 million, 238 people were murdered, 35 by guns.

In other words, the likelihood of being murdered by gunshot fell by 72 per cent in that period, from 0.54 to 0.15 per 100,000 people, Reuters said.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/australasia/las-vegas-shooting-australia-gun-laws-control-stephen-paddock-2nd-amendment-nevada-firearm-a7980671.html

That's probably also helped by Australia's lack of dense urban areas - the population density of Greater Melbourne is 450 people per square KM, which is the highest in Australia. Detroit has a population density of 4,878 persons per square mile.

[Niamh.]

That's probably also helped by Australia's lack of dense urban areas - the population density of Greater Melbourne is 450 people per square KM, which is the highest in Australia. Detroit has a population density of 4,878 persons per square mile.

70% decrease after the gun control laws came in and after the population had increased.....I think the gun laws are responsible tbh

[Marsh.]

Dishonorable discharges are banned from owning firearms, so his guns must have been illegally obtained, so tighter gun control laws wouldn't have done much in his case anyway.

Well, every gun in America being properly regulated to begin with would've reduced the chances by quite a margin.

Yes, criminals will obtain whatever they want by any means necessary, does that justify the law making it ridiculously easy for them to do so.

The fact is, this kind of incident IS preventable.

[Scarlett.]

WHY
DOES
ANYONE
NEED
AN
ARMY
GRADE
ASSAULT
WEAPON

I dont get it

[Withano]

Trump declared that this isn't a gun problem. :umm2:

[Toy Soldier]

Trump declared that this isn't a gun problem. :umm2:"This isn't a nuclear weapons problem, it's a South East Asian dictator problem" says Trump, as the mushroom clouds rise on the horizon.

[Niamh.]

"This isn't a nuclear weapons problem, it's a South East Asian dictator problem" says Trump, as the mushroom clouds rise on the horizon.[emoji23]