Tesco Christmas advert attacked for featuring Muslim family

[Tom4784]

Just days after its release, Tesco’s Christmas advert has come under fire for featuring a Muslim family.

In the supermarket’s one-minute long advert, families prepare Christmas dinner and cook a turkey in a variety of ways.

As families meet and greet each other, one scene shows a Muslim family holding Christmas gifts and preparing to celebrate the festive holiday.

Some haven’t taken too kindly to Tesco’s inclusive message, with one Twitter user claiming to be a devout Christian feeling “very offended”.

Another user said “@Tesco why are you showing Muslims celebrating Christmas in your advert. That’s just wrong, we all know they don’t!!!”.

Tesco hit back, arguing everybody should be able to enjoy the festivities.

“Everyone is welcome at Tesco this Christmas and we're proud to celebrate the many ways our customers come together over the festive season”, a Tesco spokesperson said.

As part of a series of five short videos set to be released in the run up to Christmas, Tesco said the adverts aims to promote diversity.

Tesco said its Christmas campaign “will celebrate the many ways we come together at Christmas, and how food sits at the heart of it all”.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/tesco-christmas-advert-2017-muslim-family-feature-twitter-christian-feeling-a8046396.html

I like it when racists pretend that Christmas is anything but an excuse to get pissed, eat like pigs and get given presents for 90% of the country so they can feel validated in their racism. Christmas simply isn't a religious holiday for most people any more and to pretend otherwise is just silly.

[Jordan.]

As if the majority of people complaining even celebrate the religious side of Christmas, probably the same bunch who kicked off about Halal Easter eggs.

[Greg!]

So depressing. People complain if muslims "don't integrate into Britain" but also attack them for celebrating Christmas (Nadiya from bake off is another example of this happening)

You can't win with some people

[Scarlett.]

What sad lives they must lead

[Niamh.]

Damned if you, damned if you don't

[Cherie]

Some haven’t taken too kindly to Tesco’s inclusive message, with one Twitter user claiming to be a devout Christian feeling “very offended”.

Another user said “@Tesco why are you showing Muslims celebrating Christmas in your advert. That’s just wrong, we all know they don’t!!!”.


So 2 Twitter users complained? there will always be idiots on Twitter is anyone surprised :shrug:

[Cherie]

Damned if you, damned if you don't

Bit unfair to paint everyone with the same brush over a handful of Twitter users, if we applied that logic to all Twitter trolls where would we be :suspect:

[Tom4784]

Some haven’t taken too kindly to Tesco’s inclusive message, with one Twitter user claiming to be a devout Christian feeling “very offended”.

Another user said “@Tesco why are you showing Muslims celebrating Christmas in your advert. That’s just wrong, we all know they don’t!!!”.


So 2 Twitter users complained? there will always be idiots on Twitter is anyone surprised :shrug:

.......lol

In articles like this they'll take two or three examples because, you know, you'd be scrolling for years if they listed all the tweets relating to the story.

[Cherie]

.......lol

In articles like this they'll take two or three examples because, you know, you'd be scrolling for years if they listed all the tweets relating to the story.

I'm pretty sure that the JL ad has been slated as well, where is the thread

[Jason.]

That devout Christian who claimed to be offended needs to re-evaluate his life choices and get out more.

Christmas is about as religious as Halloween nowadays.

[Tom4784]

I'm pretty sure that the JL ad has been slated as well, where is the thread

Because I don't give a **** about John Lewis?

[Cherie]

Because I don't give a **** about John Lewis?

But you do about Tesco that figures :laugh: were there any positive tweets?

[smudgie]

Saw a load of this stupidity on fb.
People should celebrate what they want, how they want, when they want, where they want.
Muslims celebrating Xmas are no different to us atheists who do so.
Christmas trees and turkey dinners are hardly religious, any more than Easter bunnies and bonnets.
Good on Tesco for including us all in the celebration of Xmas, whatever it means to us.

[Tom4784]

But you do about Tesco that figures :laugh: were there any positive tweets?

You aren't making much sense.

Of course there was positive tweets, does that somehow lesson the blatant racism in your eyes?

[Marsh.]

with one Twitter user claiming to be a devout Christian feeling “very offended”.

I don't understand this. Is he offended by the millions upon millions of atheists who use it as a gift giving holiday and the complete commercialisation of the season?

Or just that a Muslim dares to shop at Tesco to make their Christmas dinner? :joker:

[Tom4784]

Also what's the point in comparing it to John Lewis' advert? Do they feature muslims in their advert as well or are you trying to liken people taking offense at muslims being present in an advert to people simply not liking the JL advert?

If so, your logic is fatally flawed.

[Cherie]

You aren't making much sense.

Of course there was positive tweets, does that somehow lesson the blatant racism in your eyes?

There will always be idiots, it's just good to have a balance, why give the idiots oxegen? Not sure why this is a story of course people will complain, some people complain about EVERYTHING, that's why every TV show has a disclaimer now in case someone gets offended they will need to do that for Christmas ads soon

[Tom4784]

There will always be idiots, it's just good to have a balance, why give the idiots oxegen? Not sure why this is a story of course people will complain, some people complain about EVERYTHING, that's why every TV show has a disclaimer now in case someone gets offended they will need to do that for Christmas ads soon

So we shouldn't highlight racism? We should just try to rationalise it instead?

[Cherie]

So we shouldn't highlight racism? We should just try to rationalise it instead?

You are making a mountain out of a molehill and that is just silly, you say complaining about Muslims in the Tesco ad is not comparable to complaining about the mixed race family in the JL ad though I am sure someone somewhere on Twitter has complained about it, why is that..

[Marsh.]

What's the problem with the mixed race family in the JL ad? I haven't heard that one.

[Tom4784]

You are making a mountain out of a molehill and that is just silly, you say complaining about Muslims in the Tesco ad is not comparable to complaining about the mixed race family in the JL ad though I am sure someone somewhere on Twitter has complained about it, why is that..

I didn't say that at all, I haven't watched the JL advert, that much should be apparent by my post asking why JL is relevant to this discussion about a TESCO ADVERT.

All I gather from this is that you are trying to take the thread off topic while downplaying apparent racism in in response to both adverts.

[Cherie]

What's the problem with the mixed race family in the JL ad? I haven't heard that one.

Neither have I but you can bet your life there is a negative tweet out there somewhere about it

[Tom4784]

Neither have I but you can bet your life there is a negative tweet out there somewhere about it

So you are comparing a real outcry that is pretty much racially motivated to an imaginary one in order to downplay the actual racism?

[Cherie]

I didn't say that at all, I haven't watched the JL advert, that much should be apparent by my post asking why JL is relevant to this discussion about a TESCO ADVERT.

All I gather from this is that you are trying to take the thread off topic while downplaying apparent racism in in response to both adverts.

The discussion about the TESCO advert should maybe have the percentage of negative v positive tweets, if the positive outweigh the negative of course that doesn't sit well with the U.K. is racist narrative nor does it give TESCO any extra publicity...every little helps :idc:

[Marsh.]

I don't think it's a "UK is racist" narrative.

[Beso]

The independent not living up to its name.

[waterhog]

So depressing. People complain if muslims "don't integrate into Britain" but also attack them for celebrating Christmas (Nadiya from bake off is another example of this happening)

You can't win with some people

great point. if people want to celebrate it is entirely up to them as this is what our free country offers.

open to all.

I no lots of people that don't do christamas and I do not judge them.

I just do them a bar humbug poem :joker: not really :fist:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Lol. Like it's anything other than pathetic pc like me marketing crap

Its a disgusting advert as is its justification

[Marsh.]

I don't see why it needs a justification.

It's not as though the advert was depicting the actual religious meaning behind Christmas.

They were portraying the food, gifts, winter wonderland ideal that was brought in by the retail industry to make millions. Everyone seems to celebrate that aspect, even atheists and *gasps* Muslims.

[Wizard.]

People need to get over it. It’s like people who get shocked that some Muslims drink, do drugs or gamble, stop stealing our culture Muslims!

[T*]

it’s an advert
people need better things to worry about
if people want to have Christmas let them, I ain’t religious, my family ain’t religious but we still enjoy joining in with the festive season and Christmas Day, and I know many people from different religions who do the same
just live your god damn life

[AnnieK]

Peace and goodwill to ALL men

[Alf]

So we shouldn't highlight racism? We should just try to rationalise it instead?How many times do you need to be told? Islam is not a race, it's an ideology.

[Tom4784]

The discussion about the TESCO advert should maybe have the percentage of negative v positive tweets, if the positive outweigh the negative of course that doesn't sit well with the U.K. is racist narrative nor does it give TESCO any extra publicity...every little helps :idc:

Ah, you're trying to change the goalposts. Comparing the amount of positive and negative tweets would achieve nothing, it doesn't change the racism aimed at this ad. All it would do is downplay it.

This whole 'UK is Racist narrative' thing you are trying to push is quite nonsensical and isn't reflected in my posts nor the original article.

[Eddie.]

it's not offensive at all...in fact, I have Muslim friends planning to come over for Christmas Eve...

[bots]

Lets look at it from another angle, would Tesco's feature a Christian family in an advert for a Muslim festival? I don't think so. People may well celebrate Christmas for all the wrong reasons, but it is still a Christian festival, so I can see it rubbing some people the wrong way. Personally, I couldn't give a crap, the whole thing is just commercialised nonsense, but I do think people have a right to be offended by it

[Brillopad]

So we shouldn't highlight racism? We should just try to rationalise it instead?

Every sentiment expressed there equally applies to PC. So we shouldn’t highlight OTT PC - we should just try to rationalise it instead? :bored:

[Brillopad]

Lets look at it from another angle, would Tesco's feature a Christian family in an advert for a Muslim festival? I don't think so. People may well celebrate Christmas for all the wrong reasons, but it is still a Christian festival, so I can see it rubbing some people the wrong way. Personally, I couldn't give a crap, the whole thing is just commercialised nonsense, but I do think people have a right to be offended by it

Well said. Sick of the constant double standards.

[DemolitionRed]

But Muslims do believe in the birth of Christ. Jesus is mentioned repeatedly in the Quran as a great prophet and messenger of God. In fact, Muslims, through the Hadiths, follow Jesus back through lineage to his great ancestors, which makes them firm believers in Jesus. Like Christians, Muslims preach that Jesus was without sin. The birthplace and birth dates of Jesus is different in the Quran to what it is in the bible but Muslims still recognize the birth of Christ as the birth of a great prophet.

The reason Muslims don't normally celebrate Christmas is because they've been raised to believe that Christmas day was modeled after Saturnalia, a Roman Pagan holiday honoring the deity Saturn that was later adopted by Christians. Muslims, like Pagans, believe Christ was born in July.

In Muslim countries, they (unless you're a Christian) don't celebrate Christmas day but in Europe, Christmas is a national holiday that's celebrated by Pagans, Christians, Atheists, and some Muslims.

[DemolitionRed]

Lets look at it from another angle, would Tesco's feature a Christian family in an advert for a Muslim festival? I don't think so. People may well celebrate Christmas for all the wrong reasons, but it is still a Christian festival, so I can see it rubbing some people the wrong way. Personally, I couldn't give a crap, the whole thing is just commercialised nonsense, but I do think people have a right to be offended by it

I think Christians are generally offended about their celebration being adopted by Pagans and atheists. At least Muslims believe in Jesus.

[Cherie]

Ah, you're trying to change the goalposts. Comparing the amount of positive and negative tweets would achieve nothing, it doesn't change the racism aimed at this ad. All it would do is downplay it.

This whole 'UK is Racist narrative' thing you are trying to push is quite nonsensical and isn't reflected in my posts nor the original article.

How is it moving the goal posts to ask for some perspective to this, Twitter is full of trolls yet you only refer to their tweets, maybe it wold be nice for a change and for the Muslim community to hear that their inclusion in a Christian festival was praised, integration cuts both ways

[Cherie]

Christmas Tesco Ad Featuring Muslims Prompts Messages Of Inclusion After Racist Backlash
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The Huffington Post
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UK
Christmas Tesco Ad Featuring Muslims Prompts Messages Of Inclusion After Racist Backlash
'The more festivities we can all enjoy together, the better.'
10/11/2017 15:44 GMT | Updated 16 hours ago
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Jasmin Gray Reporter, HuffPost UK
X

Christmas lovers have been sharing their messages of sharing and inclusion after a festive Tesco ad featuring a Muslim family sparked a racist backlash.

Some customers threatened to boycott the supermarket after noticing that its Christmas included scenes of a Muslim family exchanging gifts, while others called it “very wrong”.

In response, fans of the “Everyone’s Welcome” ad have taken to social media to explain why its “wonderful to share the day with everyone,” regardless of their faith.

One man explained how his family celebrates Christmas each year with their Muslim friends.


TESCO
Tesco's festive ad sparked a backlash after viewers noticed it included scenes of a a Muslim family celebrating Christmas
“We give our Muslim neighbours’ kids Christmas presents, and they give presents to ours. We share food,” he tweeted.

“They don’t come to church, but then again we don’t go to the mosque when they have us over for Eid.

He added: “Christmas is something everyone can get involved in.”

Many Muslims also wrote about why they enjoy the festive season.

One woman wrote: “I am Muslim and I love Christmas.

“It’s so nice and it’s also cultural. I just love the tastes and smells.”



There we go let's focus on some positivity for a change

[lostalex]

Xmas ads are basically like the Superbowl for the UK. It always makes me laugh when Brits talk shhh-it about America for the fuss about Super Bowl ads, but it's literally the same for Christmas ads in the UK, except instead of looking for something clever and funny, y'all just look for something that makes you feel any kind of emotion. Brits are desperate for something emotional.

[DemolitionRed]

This is a really interesting article about the 25th December https://www.islamicity.org/6407/jesus-in-islam-and-christmas/

[lostalex]

This is a really interesting article about the 25th December https://www.islamicity.org/6407/jesus-in-islam-and-christmas/

I don't see how that's relevant. Either you accept Jesus as God or not. That's the basis of the Christian religion, that Jesus was God. Kind of having reverence for him as a prophet (they also worship a pedophile prophet) is not the same thing at all.

Spoiler: There is no God. It's all a lie for power and money. and unfortunately it's working.

[DemolitionRed]

I don't see how that's relevant. Either you accept Jesus as God or not. That's the basis of the Christian religion, that Jesus was God. Kind of having reverence for him as a prophet (they also worship a pedophile prophet) is not the same thing at all.

Spoiler: There is no God

Its relevant because it explains different reasons why the 25th December is celebrated and why the 25th December is not just a Christian festival.

edited to add: most Christian faiths don't think Jesus is God. They believe Jesus was the son of God and appointed by God.

[lostalex]

Its relevant because it explains different reasons why the 25th December is celebrated and why the 25th December is not just a Christian festival.

edited to add: most Christian faiths don't think Jesus is God. They believe Jesus was the son of God and appointed by God.

Well i'm a catholic and what you just said is blasphemous. please stop offending me now. (j/k sort of, i'm an atheist now) seriously though your protestant ways of devaluing Jesus as the living embodiment of God is offensive. he was not a symbol of God, he was actually God on earth. That is the basis of Christianity. I don't know what Christian church you went to that said that Jesus was not God. It's pretty much the whole point of the religion, no matter what branch, Jesus was God coming to earth and dying for the sins of humanity. If Jesus wasn't God then he wasn't the savior.

once again Spoiler: There is no God, it's all a lie.

[Brillopad]

How many times do you need to be told? Islam is not a race, it's an ideology.

It is indeed - a man-made ideology just like all religion. People can believe in what they like but when they start trying to shove it down the thoroats of the rest of us then it becomes a problem.

[Cal.]

Can Christians stop pretending it's their holiday? It's MY holiday to stuff as many pigs in blankets down my big fat gob as I can.

[lostalex]

Can Christians stop pretending it's their holiday? It's MY holiday to stuff as many pigs in blankets down my big fat gob as I can.

who's trying to stop you?

so insensitive to muslims. Keep it halal, Asshole!

[Greg!]

Christians stole crimbo off the pagans anyway so why are they raging.

[Crimson Dynamo]

People need to get over it. It’s like people who get shocked that some Muslims drink, do drugs or gamble, stop stealing our culture Muslims!

lol

then by definition they cant be muslims

its like saying "get over it some vegetarians eat steak and bacon"

[bots]

Well i'm a catholic and what you just said is blasphemous. please stop offending me now. (j/k sort of, i'm an atheist now) seriously though your protestant ways of devaluing Jesus as the living embodiment of God is offensive. he was not a symbol of God, he was actually God on earth. That is the basis of Christianity. I don't know what Christian church you went to that said that Jesus was not God. It's pretty much the whole point of the religion, no matter what branch, Jesus was God coming to earth and dying for the sins of humanity. If Jesus wasn't God then he wasn't the savior.

once again Spoiler: There is no God, it's all a lie.

i think you need to go back and re-read your bible. Jesus was the Son of God.

[Crimson Dynamo]

what is annoying is that its just so pathetic virtue signalling to get likes (just like M&S and JL)

as TS said its cynical and treats its audience like knobs

[Brillopad]

what is annoying is that its just so pathetic virtue signalling to get likes (just like M&S and JL)

as TS said its cynical and treats its audience like knobs

It’s big brother trying to tell us all how to think. We are indeed being treated like children by the advertising giants.

I mean, really, advertising giants suddenly getting alll PC and ‘moral’ - pull the other one. It’s pandering to PC in the belief that is where the money is at the moment. Just don’t expect me to buy your products- patronising, hypocritical knobs.

[Jake.]

Pathetic, only word which springs to mind really and it annoys me that companies even acknowledge it

[Cherie]

Pathetic, only word which springs to mind really and it annoys me that companies even acknowledge it

It's acknowledged to cynically give them more publicity, are they really outraged by what Twitter trolls post, not really

[DemolitionRed]

Can Christians stop pretending it's their holiday? It's MY holiday to stuff as many pigs in blankets down my big fat gob as I can.

Hehe... it was pigs in blankets that broke my vegetarianism. we were at my parents for Xmas. I'd wandered into the kitchen and discovered a dozen pigs in blankets and couldn't resist eating half of them. Everyone but me got the blame because I was the only vegetarian :hehe:

[thesheriff443]

Will the advert stop me shopping at Tesco? No
Will the advert make me treat Muslims any differently? No
Will I continue to treat people the way I want to be treated? Yes

[Brillopad]

Will the advert stop me shopping at Tesco? No
Will the advert make me treat Muslims any differently? No
Will I continue to treat people the way I want to be treated? Yes

Will it stop me shopping at Tesco - yes cheap rubbish anyway.

Will it make me respect a religion that teaches sexism - no.

Will I continue to treat people the way I want to be treated - yes.

[lostalex]

i think you need to go back and re-read your bible. Jesus was the Son of God.

please explain how he is the son of god to me. he was god taking the flesh, embodying man to deliver the message, the whole point is that it was god coming to earth. did you not pay attention? you honestly can't be so dumb to not know that the entire idea of Jesus is that God was taking a mortal form to spread his messege on earth.

[Withano]

How did twitter users determine they were muslim? Genuine question.

[lostalex]

How did twitter users determine they were muslim? Genuine question.

That's like asking how do you know that Boris or Corbyn are numpties. even a blind man can see it.

[Withano]

That's like asking how do you know that Boris or Corbyn are numpties. even a blind man can see it.

Yh but what was the give away? Was there a quran in the background or something?

[Brillopad]

That's like asking how do you know that Boris or Corbyn are numpties. even a blind man can see it.

Here, here to that!

[lostalex]

Yh but what was the give away? Was there a quran in the background or something?

i honestly haven't seen the ad. i'm assuming they were brown or something.

[Withano]

i honestly haven't seen the ad. i'm assuming they were brown or something.

Same and same!
If it comes down to people kicking up a fuss about people of a skin colour being featured in a christmas ad, we should probably focus on the twitter users who assumed their religion more than the tesco ad itself.. that seems like the bigger story here.

[lostalex]

Same and same!
If it comes down to people kicking up a fuss about people of a skin colour being featured in a christmas ad, we should probably focus on the twitter users who assumed their religion more than the tesco ad itself.. that seems like the bigger story here.

or the bigger story is Tesco knowing idiots would kick up a fuss, and get their ad on every news program while they talk about how inclusive and progressive Tesco is. not to be cynical or anything...

[Withano]

or the bigger story is Tesco knowing idiots would kick up a fuss, and get their ad on every news program while they talk about how inclusive and progressive Tesco is. not to be cynical or anything...

I mean, I don't think Tesco are above publicity stunts, but I don't think thats what they aimed for here. I just watched the ad, and yeh, we were kinda right. Just Twitter users getting upset after they, personally, assumed the religion of paid actors. I think the Twitter users are more of a newsworthy story than the ad tbh!

[lostalex]

I mean, I don't think Tesco are above publicity stunts, but I don't think thats what they aimed for here. I just watched the ad, and yeh, we were kinda right. Just Twitter users getting upset after they, personally, assumed the religion of paid actors. I think the Twitter users are more of a newsworthy story than the ad tbh!

how many "twitter users" are we actually talking about?

[Withano]

how many "twitter users" are we actually talking about?

I have no idea. I'd like to think that there wasn't many more than 2 twitter users who assumed someones religion and then got upset because they did so, but I could be wrong.

[Cherie]

.......lol

In articles like this they'll take two or three examples because, you know, you'd be scrolling for years if they listed all the tweets relating to the story.

I have no idea. I'd like to think that there wasn't many more than 2 twitter users who assumed someones religion and then got upset because they did so, but I could be wrong.

.

[lostalex]

literally, 5 racist people on twitter can get the attention of the british media to make a meal of it. and the british media will then act like they are anti-racist, while profiting off of making a meal out of 5 racist twitter posts.

[Cherie]

literally, 5 racist people on twitter can get the attention of the british media to make a meal of it.


in a nutshell

[Brillopad]

I like it when racists pretend that Christmas is anything but an excuse to get pissed, eat like pigs and get given presents for 90% of the country so they can feel validated in their racism. Christmas simply isn't a religious holiday for most people any more and to pretend otherwise is just silly.

The judge and jury on racism. :bored: beyond belief! Some ol, same ol hateful garbage. You accuse others of ‘hate’ when you have a pretty good grip on that yourself.

[Northern Monkey]

This seems to be a very small selection of idiots on Twitter.It seems there were probably just as many people complaining that the ad is being shown too early or vegans complaining about it featuring turkey.Since no more than 2-3 of the same examples are given of these overly PC morons complaining about it featuring muslims.
This is in the same vein as these idiots who go on about ‘cultural appropriation’.”white people can’t where dreadlocks cos it’s jus black culture”(even though it isn’t) or “Katy Perry is culturally appropriating Chinese culture”.
It’s all anti inclusivity and it’s seen in every subsection of humans.There are alot of idiots about.
If we are all going to merge into this one super culture that the powers that be seem to be pushing then we need to learn to start accepting each others traditions and there’s nothing more accepting than joining in.
Muslims that do celebrate Christmas are integrating which is a very good thing.

But yeah as DR said Jesus was more than likely born in summer anyway.For a start sheep would’ve been under cover in the winter and i’ve also heard things about the position of the star that they all followed being only there in the summer months.

I’m with Cherie,Alex and LT on this one.It seems Tesco were looking for this reaction on social media just so they could bleet about ‘how inclusive we are’.When else do they react a couple of idiotic tweets,They’ll get complaints every day.It’s publicity.

[Tom4784]

How is it moving the goal posts to ask for some perspective to this, Twitter is full of trolls yet you only refer to their tweets, maybe it wold be nice for a change and for the Muslim community to hear that their inclusion in a Christian festival was praised, integration cuts both ways

Because none of that changes the fact that the 'controversy' of this advert is fuelled by racism and you want to downplay it because it makes you uncomfortable.

.

Again, you're not making much sense here. Withano's post does not contradict mine.

[Brillopad]

This seems to be a very small selection of idiots on Twitter.It seems there were probably just as many people complaining that the ad is being shown too early or vegans complaining about it featuring turkey.Since no more than 2-3 of the same examples are given of these overly PC morons complaining about it featuring muslims.
This is in the same vein as these idiots who go on about ‘cultural appropriation’.”white people can’t where dreadlocks cos it’s jus black culture”(even though it isn’t) or “Katy Perry is culturally appropriating Chinese culture”.
It’s all anti inclusivity and it’s seen in every subsection of humans.There are alot of idiots about.
If we are all going to merge into this one super culture that the powers that be seem to be pushing then we need to learn to start accepting each others traditions and there’s nothing more accepting than joining in.
Muslims that do celebrate Christmas are integrating which is a very good thing.

But yeah as DR said Jesus was more than likely born in summer anyway.For a start sheep would’ve been under cover in the winter and i’ve also heard things about the position of the star that they all followed being only there in the summer months.

I’m with Cherie,Alex and LT on this one.It seems Tesco were looking for this reaction on social media just so they could bleet about ‘how inclusive we are’.When else do they react a couple of idiotic tweets,They’ll get complaints every day.It’s publicity.

Money, money, money it always is!

[DemolitionRed]

I just watched the advert. It had a Hindu wearing a turban and a bunch of women wearing head coverings. They could be Muslim women but could equally be Orthodox Christians.

[Brillopad]

I just watched the advert. It had a Hindu wearing a turban and a bunch of women wearing head coverings. They could be Muslim women but could equally be Orthodox Christians.

Does Christianity require women to cover their hair - that’s news to me.

[T*]

Xmas ads are basically like the Superbowl for the UK. It always makes me laugh when Brits talk shhh-it about America for the fuss about Super Bowl ads, but it's literally the same for Christmas ads in the UK, except instead of looking for something clever and funny, y'all just look for something that makes you feel any kind of emotion. Brits are desperate for something emotional.

‘Those silly Americans with those Super Bowl ads!’ - no one ever
a reach and a half, I love the super bowl ads but then again I work quite close to marketing, everyone else literally doesn’t care about them :shrug:

[Crimson Dynamo]

i love the superbowl, the ads can do one as can the half time bollocks

but yes we want sentiment and tradition at Chrimbo and not some utopian wankfest thought up by some bearded metro-sexual account exec living in a bedsit in Clapham

[Brillopad]

i love the superbowl, the ads can do one as can the half time bollocks

but yes we want sentiment and tradition at Chrimbo and not some utopian wankfest thought up by some bearded metro-sexual account exec living in a bedsit in Clapham

:thumbs:

[DemolitionRed]

Does Christianity require women to cover their hair - that’s news to me.

Your kidding? There are many countries around the globe where Christian women are required to cover their hair. Start with Russian Orthodox and Coptic Christians. A lot of the Romanian women who sell big issue are covered from head to toe, including their hair because they are Orthodox Christians, not Muslims as so many wrongly presume.

[Cherie]

Because none of that changes the fact that the 'controversy' of this advert is fuelled by racism and you want to downplay it because it makes you uncomfortable.



Again, you're not making much sense here. Withano's post does not contradict mine.

I don't know why you find my train of thought so difficult to follow its hardly the most complex of thinking :laugh:


Withano said
I have no idea. I'd like to think that there wasn't many more than 2 twitter users who assumed someones religion and then got upset because they did so, but I could be wrong.

so I directed him to your response when I said much the same thing,

[Vicky.]

Well this makes a change from people being up in arms because apparently Muslims don't want anyone else to celebrate christmas :idc:

why are you showing Muslims celebrating Christmas in your advert. That’s just wrong, we all know they don’t!!!”.

Really...I don't know many Muslim families granted, but all of the ones I do know do celebrate xmas. As do most athiests I know, as Christmas is not really about religion these days at all. Hasn't been for a long time.

[DemolitionRed]

Lets look at it from another angle, would Tesco's feature a Christian family in an advert for a Muslim festival? I don't think so. People may well celebrate Christmas for all the wrong reasons, but it is still a Christian festival, so I can see it rubbing some people the wrong way. Personally, I couldn't give a crap, the whole thing is just commercialised nonsense, but I do think people have a right to be offended by it

Sighs... obviously not because Christians don't believe in Muhammad!

[Brillopad]

Your kidding? There are many countries around the globe where Christian women are required to cover their hair. Start with Russian Orthodox and Coptic Christians. A lot of the Romanian women who sell big issue are covered from head to toe, including their hair because they are Orthodox Christians, not Muslims as so many wrongly presume.

I am a little confused by that. I am not religious at all so no expert on Christianity but I am pretty sure it is not a requirement of said religion in the West.

So that beggars the question does that have more to do with geographics and common views in certain countries towards women and their interpretation of how women should act/dress than the religion itself.

[user104658]

I am a little confused by that. I am not religious at all so no expert on Christianity but I am pretty sure it is not a requirement of said religion in the West.

So that beggars the question does that have more to do with geographics and common views in certain countries towards women and their interpretation of how women should act/dress than the religion itself.It's not a requirement of Islam either, there are many (millions, I would imagine) Muslim women who don't cover their hair... There are still more Muslims than Christians who do, obviously, but it's more down to interpretations of it and culture than any sort of strict requirement. It's more that most branches of modern day Christianity are pretty "relaxed" about which parts of the bible they follow, and which parts arent considered important any more.

There are also many Muslim women who seem to decide to wear it when they haven't previously worn anything, and whose families / husbands etc. don't care either way if they do or not, which might be surprising.

[user104658]

I would point out that there are rules about what men should and shouldn't wear too and what constitutes "modest dress", just that it tends not to include covering the head or hair. Generally, if I'm getting this right, (strict) Muslim men also aren't supposed to show most of their body (should always have long sleeves / not wear shorts / shirts buttoned right up etc) and also aren't supposed to wear anything "that shoes their shape", so clothes are supposed to be on the baggy side / nothing tight-fitting.

Whether or not the rules are always applied equally is another matter, I suppose, but that does apply across all cultures religious and not in my experience. A lot of people hypocritically expect more of their partners than they do of themselves.

Its fairly recent (and ongoing) that women don't have expectations on them above and beyond men, I mean we're talking far less than 100 years even, since men in this country were expecting / insisting on "modest dress" for women while going around topless themselves.

I guess the thing is, it took women themselves, from within, to say "no this isn't good enough" and stand up to it and the transition wasn't an easy one. Things are only going to change in other cultures when the same thing happens there... Which it almost certainly will at some point. It can't be "forced" from the outside.

[Marsh.]

i honestly haven't seen the ad. i'm assuming they were brown or something.
Of course. The clear indicator of a Muslim. :rolleyes:

[bots]

Orthodox Christianity does require conservative dressing from both men and woman, I have for example seen a man thrown out of a church while wearing shorts, but its moving the the topic away from the point of the discussion really. Everyone knows what Tesco's intention was, and it certainly wasn't to promote Orthodox Christianity

[Marsh.]

please explain how he is the son of god to me. he was god taking the flesh, embodying man to deliver the message, the whole point is that it was god coming to earth. did you not pay attention? you honestly can't be so dumb to not know that the entire idea of Jesus is that God was taking a mortal form to spread his messege on earth.

And you weren't paying attention when he described the holy trinity as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Like a human father would pass a part of himself on through his children.

But I suppose that went over your head.

[DemolitionRed]

It's not a requirement of Islam either, there are many (millions, I would imagine) Muslim women who don't cover their hair... There are still more Muslims than Christians who do, obviously, but it's more down to interpretations of it and culture than any sort of strict requirement. It's more that most branches of modern day Christianity are pretty "relaxed" about which parts of the bible they follow, and which parts arent considered important any more.

There are also many Muslim women who seem to decide to wear it when they haven't previously worn anything, and whose families / husbands etc. don't care either way if they do or not, which might be surprising.

Good informative post TS

I work with one Muslim woman who doesn't wear the head covering and dresses western style. Her sister, who like her, is single, wears modest clothing and head covering. My work colleague is a practicing Muslim. Like you say, many Muslim women don't wear Muslim style clothing.

Also, when I first went to Bucharest, I was astounded at the number of Muslim women in black abaya's and al-amira style head dressers. There were women praying on prayer mats on the streets. When you looked a little closer, they were holding rosaries and crucifixes. Since then I've never presumed that a woman who is wearing hijab in the UK is actually a Muslim woman because its just as likely she's an Orthodox or Coptic Christian from Eastern Europe or Egypt.

[DemolitionRed]

Orthodox Christianity does require conservative dressing from both men and woman, I have for example seen a man thrown out of a church while wearing shorts, but its moving the the topic away from the point of the discussion really. Everyone knows what Tesco's intention was, and it certainly wasn't to promote Orthodox Christianity

It was to promote inclusiveness regardless of who you are.

[Marsh.]

Lets look at it from another angle, would Tesco's feature a Christian family in an advert for a Muslim festival? I don't think so. People may well celebrate Christmas for all the wrong reasons, but it is still a Christian festival, so I can see it rubbing some people the wrong way. Personally, I couldn't give a crap, the whole thing is just commercialised nonsense, but I do think people have a right to be offended by it
Would Tesco even advertise with a Muslim festival theme? No.

Christmas is the only commercial one in that respect.

It's got bugger all to do with religion and everything to do with retail.

[Marsh.]

Xmas ads are basically like the Superbowl for the UK. It always makes me laugh when Brits talk shhh-it about America for the fuss about Super Bowl ads, but it's literally the same for Christmas ads in the UK, except instead of looking for something clever and funny, y'all just look for something that makes you feel any kind of emotion. Brits are desperate for something emotional.
What a load of rubbish.

[user104658]

Oh Tesco's intention is self promotion and profit, no ifs ands or buts. It's advertising. I'd have thought that was a given, really, but then I see plenty of people still fawning over the John Lewis and M&S Christmas adverts like those companies are anything but cynical profit machines like any other company, who are only pulling at people's heart-strings to loosen their purse-strings.

........there are good reasons I don't watch broadcast TV and have about 5 different adblocks on my browser and one on my router, I guess :joker:.

People are always asking me things like "oh have you seen the ______ advert yet?"... Unless someone has sent me a YouTube link of it, the answer is going to be "no" :joker:.

[Tom4784]

John Lewis adverts are honestly woeful.

'Here's some sappy **** with a dull as dishwater acoustic cover of an overplayed song played over it, NOW CRY FOR ME BITCH AND BUY MY OVERPRICED ****!'

[Vicky.]

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/11/if-you-find-muslims-christmas-ad-offensive-grinch-year-you

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/11/if-you-find-muslims-christmas-ad-offensive-grinch-year-you

yes how lovely for them but who specifically was complaining, who specifically is this article addressed to?

"Because, yes, critics of this advert expect us to integrate, but not too much"

yes m8te but who are you talking about because you seem too be getting on your high horse due to some invisible critic?

what a load of bollocks

[DemolitionRed]

https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2017/11/if-you-find-muslims-christmas-ad-offensive-grinch-year-you

Well written link Vicky. I agree with all of it. Muslims are darned if they do and darned if they don't.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Well written link Vicky. I agree with all of it. Muslims are darned if they do and darned if they don't.

by who specifically?

[Withano]

yes how lovely for them but who specifically was complaining, who specifically is this article addressed to?

"Because, yes, critics of this advert expect us to integrate, but not too much"



Tbf, the youtube comment section under that video is shocking. There does seem to be a fair few thousand that dislike the concept of an ad like this. Which is just ridiculous.

[Cherie]

Well written link Vicky. I agree with all of it. Muslims are darned if they do and darned if they don't.

Judging by the article you would think there were no positive comments, shame the article focuses completely on negative tweets, it's a bit woe is me with no balance

[Crimson Dynamo]

Tbf, the youtube comment section under that video is shocking. There does seem to be a fair few thousand that dislike the concept of an ad like this. Which is just ridiculous.

i am pretty sure that You tube comments is not the answer or justification for any question

I was looking at a camera today and people were effing and jeffing and being racist and sexist about the asian woman in the video

:umm2:

[DemolitionRed]

If you look at the comments on Daily Mail write up on this, one of the first one says, "As soon as I saw this advert, I said I would never shop at Tesco again even though it's my nearest supermarket". That comment received 1381 likes. Another one commented, "The advert is a fantasy, and in these times, it's in very bad taste." which received 1104 likes and although there's a good amount of positive comments, there are a good few who claim they won't be shopping at Tescos again.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If you look at the comments on Daily Mail write up on this, one of the first one says, "As soon as I saw this advert, I said I would never shop at Tesco again even though it's my nearest supermarket". That comment received 1381 likes. Another one commented, "The advert is a fantasy, and in these times, it's in very bad taste." which received 1104 likes and although there's a good amount of positive comments, there are a good few who claim they won't be shopping at Tescos again.

like i said about youtube comments if you are using them or DM comments as your justification for a viewpoint or argument then you are not really understanding the medium or what it is you are getting angry about

they are at best pantomime

But6 the crap NS article does not even try to give a source it just pretends it be angry at some unknown source

[Withano]

i am pretty sure that You tube comments is not the answer or justification for any question

I was looking at a camera today and people were effing and jeffing and being racist and sexist about the asian woman in the video

:umm2:

I don't know what we're talking about anymore

[bots]

Judging by the article you would think there were no positive comments, shame the article focuses completely on negative tweets, it's a bit woe is me with no balance

I also think that nobody gives a flying **** who celebrates Christmas and how. The annoyance is with Tesco for producing what is basically a cringe worthy advert, and they are not alone, they all seem to be at it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

I don't know what we're talking about anymore

me most days

[Crimson Dynamo]

I also think that nobody gives a flying **** who celebrates Christmas and how. The annoyance is with Tesco for producing what is basically a cringe worthy advert, and they are not alone, they all seem to be at it.

correct, its them thinking that we buy it

its truly pathetic

[DemolitionRed]

Will it stop me shopping at Tesco - yes cheap rubbish anyway.

Will it make me respect a religion that teaches sexism - no.

Will I continue to treat people the way I want to be treated - yes.

But you don't treat Muslims how you want to be treated. :conf:

[user104658]

correct, its them thinking that we buy it

its truly patheticLoads of people do buy into advertising, sadly... They wouldn't still be spending so much on it if it wasn't profitable.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Loads of people do buy into advertising, sadly... They wouldn't still be spending so much on it if it wasn't profitable.

im off too Tesco in an hour as it goes

:umm2:

[Cherie]

im off too Tesco in an hour as it goes

:umm2:

do they not close early like they do down South, poor you :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

do they not close early like they do down South, poor you :laugh:

24 hours

[Cherie]

24 hours

the 24 hour ones close at 5 on a Sunday..:hee:

[user104658]

the 24 hour ones close at 5 on a Sunday..:hee:Only in Christian backwaters like England; in Scotland, 24h is 24h.

SO many times when I lived Darn Sarf (way down in... Lancashire :joker: ) I got caught out on Sundays like "I'll just pop to the shop" at 6pm and then remembering that everything shuts at 4 or 5 on a Sunday :umm2:.

Meanwhile in Scotland, I'll be going shopping tonight when I finish work at half 10 :hee:.

[user104658]

They do shut the upstairs bit (clothes and electronics) at 10 though, but that's because of drunks and junkies shoplifting [emoji23]

[DemolitionRed]

Where we live in France they don't open at all on Sunday. During the week they open at 9am, close at 12:00 for lunch and open around 14:00 if they can be bothered and then they close for the night at 17:30 :(

[user104658]

Where we live in France they don't open at all on Sunday. During the week they open at 9am, close at 12:00 for lunch and open around 14:00 if they can be bothered and then they close for the night at 17:30 :(

My wife did a year abroad in France with Uni and I went over for about 6 weeks... It wasn't just Sundays where she was! Everything (except bars) shut all weekend... There was actually a weekend that we forgot to get food in on the Friday and lived on crisps and chocolate out if the uni dorms vending machines :joker:.

[Cherie]

Only in Christian backwaters like England; in Scotland, 24h is 24h.

SO many times when I lived Darn Sarf (way down in... Lancashire :joker: ) I got caught out on Sundays like "I'll just pop to the shop" at 6pm and then remembering that everything shuts at 4 or 5 on a Sunday :umm2:.

Meanwhile in Scotland, I'll be going shopping tonight when I finish work at half 10 :hee:.

If you can't get organised in the 6.5 days they are open :nono: we like to give the staff time with their families down South :hmph:

[Cherie]

Where we live in France they don't open at all on Sunday. During the week they open at 9am, close at 12:00 for lunch and open around 14:00 if they can be bothered and then they close for the night at 17:30 :(

:clap1: this happens in Spain except in high season when they open Sunday mornings for the tourists

[user104658]

If you can't get organised in the 6.5 days they are open :nono: we like to give the staff time with their families down South :hmph:They'll be working the exact same number of hours, though :shrug:. It's a religious throwback and you know it :fist:. Bet it's gone in a decade or so anyway [emoji23]

[Marsh.]

If you can't get organised in the 6.5 days they are open :nono: we like to give the staff time with their families down South :hmph:

Surely there's a number of them that work shifts around one another though? :laugh:

Unless the South have robots working 24/7? :think:

[Cherie]

They'll be working the exact same number of hours, though :shrug:. It's a religious throwback and you know it :fist:. Bet it's gone in a decade or so anyway [emoji23]

Might be the same number of hours but weekend work does not sit well with school hours :nono: family time is important to us Southerners :hee:

[user104658]

Might be the same number of hours but weekend work does not sit well with school hours :nono: family time is important to us Southerners :hee:Yes it does, I explained this in another thread I'm sure... You work all weekend, then in the week you send the li'l buggers off to school and relax and nap on the couch and argue on Tibb and stuff. Its a flawless system...

[Cherie]

Yes it does, I explained this in another thread I'm sure... You work all weekend, then in the week you send the li'l buggers off to school and relax and nap on the couch and argue on Tibb and stuff. Its a flawless system...

:laugh: don't forget binging on Netflix

[user104658]

[emoji23] don't forget binging on NetflixNot any more, they cancelled all of the shows because of historic sex offences.

[Vicky.]

the 24 hour ones close at 5 on a Sunday..:hee:

I'm sure ours closes at 4 on a sunday. Lazy bastards wanting an extra hour off :bored:

My mate works in tesco and apparently shes having to work xmas day. Shops not open, but they still want staff in. horrible *****. No need for anyone who works in a shop to do xmas really. Maybe with the exception of a couple of petrol stations and corner shops where the OWNERS do the shifts as they want the cash

[arista]

First debate on Ch5HD AM Live.
So this is getting bigger
was on LBC radio , as well.


9:28AM
on Commercials now


This thread is Live now
Ch5HD AM Wright Stuff

[lostalex]

And you weren't paying attention when he described the holy trinity as Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Like a human father would pass a part of himself on through his children.

But I suppose that went over your head.

It didn't go over my head at all, it's all meant to be god. God above, God as flesh, and then the spirit of god in all of us,.... all GOD// not three sep[arate things, all the same thing, God. that's the whole point.

[Marsh.]

It didn't go over my head at all, it's all meant to be god. God above, God as flesh, and then the spirit of god in all of us,.... all GOD// not three sep[arate things, all the same thing, God. that's the whole point.
It's meant to be a part of him.

Holy spirit the spiritual part and his son the flesh and blood. Hence... son. Children are flesh and blood.

Hence Jesus referring to his father in his teachings.

[lostalex]

It's meant to be a part of him.

Holy spirit the spiritual part and his son the flesh and blood. Hence... son. Children are flesh and blood.

Hence Jesus referring to his father in his teachings.

um, no, God literally raped Mary in order to give birth to himself. God was taking flesh form to give his OWN message. Jesus is not a separate entity from God, he was God incarnate come to earth to deliver his own word because humans had supposedly become so corrupt and not living by his word that he had to come to earth to spread his own word and deliver the true word of god.

[Niamh.]

It's meant to be a part of him.

Holy spirit the spiritual part and his son the flesh and blood. Hence... son. Children are flesh and blood.

Hence Jesus referring to his father in his teachings.

I think Alex is right actually, the father, son and holy spirit are all supposed to be one and the same. That's what we always learned anyway in school etc

[Marsh.]

I think Alex is right actually, the father, son and holy spirit are all supposed to be one and the same. That's what we always learned anyway in school etc
They're all a part of him and together they make the holy trinity. :shrug:

[Niamh.]

They're all a part of him and together they make the holy trinity. :shrug:

I understood it the way Alex is saying anyhow (not that I was ever paying much attention in religion lol)

[Marsh.]

um, no, God literally raped Mary in order to give birth to himself. God was taking flesh form to give his OWN message. Jesus is not a separate entity from God, he was God incarnate come to earth to deliver his own word because humans had supposedly become so corrupt and not living by his word that he had to come to earth to spread his own word and deliver the true word of god.

God isn't human so, no, he didn't literally rape Mary.

Jesus was still a separate entity, made from God and designed to spread his word.

[lostalex]

God isn't human so, no, he didn't literally rape Mary.

Jesus was still a separate entity, made from God and designed to spread his word.

got impreganted Mary without consent (then sent an angel to inform her) so that he could take flesh form on earth as a human being, Jesus of Nazareth.

[lostalex]

I think Alex is right actually, the father, son and holy spirit are all supposed to be one and the same. That's what we always learned anyway in school etc

Thank you, i know i'm not just making this up. lol i went to sunday school too many times to just be making this up. It was always made very clear that God/Jesus/Holy spirit were all ONE God. Three different manifestations but all part of the same all powerful God.

[user104658]

It didn't go over my head at all, it's all meant to be god. God above, God as flesh, and then the spirit of god in all of us,.... all GOD// not three sep[arate things, all the same thing, God. that's the whole point. if you didn't get that, sounds like you're the one that missed the point.

Lostalex has it right here I'm afraid...

Father, Son and Holy Spirit = Holy Trinity = God


I think the best way to think of Jesus is that he is basically an "avatar"... he's God in human form, but also, an individual in his own right (in terms of human experiences), which is what would make his death a "sacrifice" (the sacrifice of the human life that God was living in that body, and the pain and suffering he endured in that body) but he is not actually a separate entity to God in most Christian lore, basically. Also the resurrection isn't a resurrection, as such, the human body is still dead but God himself obviously can't die, and simply leaves back to Heaven or wherever God hangs his hat. The human "Jesus" will live with God from that point forward, but I guess that would be sort of a metaphor; that "life" stays with him.

And obviously there's the whole "second coming" thing where he's supposed to come back at some point and sort sh*t out, which seems sort of overdue, but who knows?

He is separate in Islamic literature of course, where he is simply a Great Prophet of God, so just a normal human given special status by God.


Disclaimer: Obviously it's all BS but it does make pretty compelling fantasy sci-fi... I reckon I'd really like Biblical stuff if it WAS regarded as just some good ol' fiction :joker:. Like... I'd totally watch it... that's some LoTR / GoT level stuff right there.

[Niamh.]

Thank you, i know i'm not just making this up. lol i went to sunday school too many times to just be making this up.

Yeah, I was born into Catholicism and we did religion (Catholic indoctrination basically) all through school and that's how I always understood it

[user104658]

God isn't human so, no, he didn't literally rape Mary.

Jesus was still a separate entity, made from God and designed to spread his word.

He violated her bodily autonomy and impregnated her / forced her to carry a child without her consent... I mean obviously it's not literal rape as there was no sexual act, but... it sure is something, if it was in a modern context there would be outrage :joker:. He'd probably have to try like 10 times. "Oh FFS, aborted AGAIN??"

(Again, disclaimer, it's all fantasy and if the Jesus/Mary/Joseph story has any historical accuracy... then Mary and Joseph were being bad and didn't want anyone to find out :nono: )

[bots]

Yeah, I was born into Catholicism and we did religion (Catholic indoctrination basically) all through school and that's how I always understood it

its where the various branches of christianity clearly diverge then, because certainly he was a son and not god himself in what i learnt

[lostalex]

its where the various branches of christianity clearly diverge then, because certainly he was a son and not god himself in what i learnt

I'm pretty sure the basis of every branch of christianity is still that Jesus was God. That's pretty universal... at least I thought it was...

[Niamh.]

its where the various branches of christianity clearly diverge then, because certainly he was a son and not god himself in what i learnt

Quite possibly BOTS, I know there are some differences between Catholic beliefs and Protestant like whether the Eucharist is symbolic or literal etc

[lostalex]

If you don't believe that Jesus was God then you aren't a christian... the bible makes it very clear the difference between prophets that spoke the word of God, and the actual EVENT of GOD coming to earth. That's the whole point of the new testament. and if you don't believe the new testament, then you're basically just a Jew. to put it bluntly.

[Marsh.]

The fumes. :joker:

The way TS explains in his first post is exactly how I meant.

Jesus is not God in and of himself. He is a part of God. Very different. Hence being the son.

All of the parts collectively are God.

[lostalex]

The fumes. :joker:

The way TS explains in his first post is exactly how I meant.

Jesus is not God in and of himself. He is a part of God. Very different. Hence being the son.

All of the parts collectively are God.

no. it's very clear. Jesus was God actually coming to earth. he was God, like literally. If you don't believe that Jesus was God, then you aren't a christian, that's the entire reason for the religion.

[bots]

If you don't believe that Jesus was God then you aren't a christian... the bible makes it very clear the difference between prophets that spoke the word of God, and the actual EVENT of GOD coming to earth. That's the whole point of the new testament. and if you don't believe the new testament, then you're basically just a Jew. to put it bluntly.

it's been a while, so i thought i better check :laugh:

In the New Testament, "Son of God" is applied to Jesus on many occasions.[2] Jesus is declared to be the Son of God on two separate occasions by a voice speaking from Heaven. Jesus is also explicitly and implicitly described as the Son of God by himself and by various individuals who appear in the New Testament.[2][5][6][7] As applied to Jesus, the term is a reference to his role as the Messiah, the King chosen by God.[8] The contexts and ways in which Jesus' title, Son of God, means something more than or other than Messiah remain the subject of ongoing scholarly study and discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God

[lostalex]

it's been a while, so i thought i better check :laugh:

In the New Testament, "Son of God" is applied to Jesus on many occasions.[2] Jesus is declared to be the Son of God on two separate occasions by a voice speaking from Heaven. Jesus is also explicitly and implicitly described as the Son of God by himself and by various individuals who appear in the New Testament.[2][5][6][7] As applied to Jesus, the term is a reference to his role as the Messiah, the King chosen by God.[8] The contexts and ways in which Jesus' title, Son of God, means something more than or other than Messiah remain the subject of ongoing scholarly study and discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God

jews and Muslims and many other religions believe Jesus was just a prophet. But the very defining characteristic of christianity was that jesus was the coming of God in human form to the Earth.

If you ar a christian you have to believe that Jesus was god, that's the one thing that you cannot debate in Christianity. Because if Jesus was not God, then he wasn't the Christ, literally.

The idea that Jesus of Nazareth was God is literally the entire basis of the Christian religion. I can't believe we are even debating this.

[Niamh.]

I'm no expert but its the way we were taught it in school that they're the same "person"

like this :

Is Jesus God?
Some say Jesus Christ was just a man, or maybe a great teacher. But He was and is much more than that. The Bible says Jesus is unique in both His person and His purpose. He wasn’t just some spiritual individual during His time on earth; He was both God’s Son (John 3:16) and God Himself—God in human flesh (I Timothy 3:16). Yes, He was fully man, but He was also fully God (Colossians 2:9).

The claims

Jesus claimed to be God. It might be hard to understand how this could be true, but it’s important to remember that God is much bigger and more powerful than we can comprehend. We do know that Jesus said He existed before Abraham (John 8:58). He claimed that He and His Father are one (John 10:30), and that He is equal with the Father (John 5:17-18).

Not only did He claim to be God, but He also claimed to have the power of God. He said He has the authority to judge the nations (Matthew 25:31-46). He claims the authority to raise people from the dead (John 5:25-29) and to forgive sins (Mark 2:5-7)—things only God can do (I Samuel 2:6; Isaiah 43:25).

Further, Jesus says He has the power to answer prayers (John 14:13-14), and that He will be with His followers always (Matthew 28:20). The New Testament equates Jesus to the creator of the universe (John 1:3), and in John 16:15, He says, “All that belongs to the Father is mine.”

https://goingfarther.net/common-questions/is-jesus-god/

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jesus is god according to the tale

Its kind of the whole deal

the trinity et al

[lostalex]

Why would christians pray to Jesus as their lord and savior if Jesus wasn't God? wouldn't that be worshiping a false idol? it's because Jesus is God! (according to christians)

This whole conversation is making me uncomfortable because i'm an athiest now, but I am very clear on my understanding of Christianity, and Jesus is very clearly God in all of christianity. aka THE Lord and Savior. Literally Jesus is God in christianity. I'm very sure about that.

[lostalex]

Jesus is god according to the tale

Its kind of the whole deal

the trinity et al

thank you! i know i'm not crazy.

[Niamh.]

Why would christians pray to Jesus as their lord and savior if Jesus wasn't God? wouldn't that be worshiping a false idol? it's because Jesus is God! (according to christians)

This whole conversation is making me uncomfortable because i'm an athiest now, but I am very clear on my understanding of Christianity, and Jesus is very clearly God in all of christianity. aka THE Lord and Savior. Literally Jesus is God in christianity. I'm very sure about that.

Same :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

thank you! i know i'm not crazy.

wait, i did not confirm that

[Crimson Dynamo]

I think that they had to make Jesus god for the whole shebang to work

[user104658]

It seems simple enough to me; God created a physical human body (which you could call "his son", physically, a human body that he created) but then he put himself, or a humanised incarnation of himself, into that physical body. The body is just a vehicle (an avatar) for the "soul" of God himself, which existed before, and continued to exist after, the body. The body itself didn't have its own separate individual self, however, the "human life" and experiences that God lived inside that body could be considered distinct from the rest of his existence. You could argue that the experience of being human himself altered his understanding of humanity, hence the tonal differences between the new and old testaments, and the general insistence that anything contradictory to the old testament contained in the new testament should be considered to "override" the old testament.

I kind of wish there was truth in it, it's a fascinating story really. I get why people get so invested in it.

[Niamh.]

it's been a while, so i thought i better check :laugh:

In the New Testament, "Son of God" is applied to Jesus on many occasions.[2] Jesus is declared to be the Son of God on two separate occasions by a voice speaking from Heaven. Jesus is also explicitly and implicitly described as the Son of God by himself and by various individuals who appear in the New Testament.[2][5][6][7] As applied to Jesus, the term is a reference to his role as the Messiah, the King chosen by God.[8] The contexts and ways in which Jesus' title, Son of God, means something more than or other than Messiah remain the subject of ongoing scholarly study and discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God

That's kind of explained here :

Jesus can be both God and the son of God because the terms don't mean the same thing. When we say that Jesus is God (John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8), we are saying that Jesus possesses the divine nature (as well as a human nature, see hypostatic union). But the term "Son of God" does not mean that Jesus is not God. Think about it. If the term "Son of God" meant that Jesus is not God, then does the term "Son of Man" mean that Jesus is not a man? Of course not. Likewise, if the term "Son of Man" means that Jesus is a man, then does it not imply that when it says Jesus is the "Son of God" that he is God? We ought not look at the ancient words found in Scripture and judge them by modern thinking.

"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God," (John 5:18).

As you can see in this verse, Jesus was calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. Therefore, the term Son of God is a designation of the equality with God when it is a reference to Christ.

https://carm.org/how-can-jesus-be-both-god-and-son-of-god

[Crimson Dynamo]

It seems simple enough to me; God created a physical human body (which you could call "his son", physically, a human body that he created) but then he put himself, or a humanised incarnation of himself, into that physical body. The body is just a vehicle (an avatar) for the "soul" of God himself, which existed before, and continued to exist after, the body. The body itself didn't have its own separate individual self, however, the "human life" and experiences that God lived inside that body could be considered distinct from the rest of his existence. You could argue that the experience of being human himself altered his understanding of humanity, hence the tonal differences between the new and old testaments, and the general insistence that anything contradictory to the old testament contained in the new testament should be considered to "override" the old testament.

I kind of wish there was truth in it, it's a fascinating story really. I get why people get so invested in it.

and of course they HAD to punish him, crucify him, break his legs etc to atone for our sins

i mean he could not just let him live and atone anyroad now could he

:rolleyes:

[lostalex]

It seems simple enough to me; God created a physical human body (which you could call "his son", physically, a human body that he created) but then he put himself, or a humanised incarnation of himself, into that physical body. The body is just a vehicle (an avatar) for the "soul" of God himself, which existed before, and continued to exist after, the body. The body itself didn't have its own separate individual self, however, the "human life" and experiences that God lived inside that body could be considered distinct from the rest of his existence. You could argue that the experience of being human himself altered his understanding of humanity, hence the tonal differences between the new and old testaments, and the general insistence that anything contradictory to the old testament contained in the new testament should be considered to "override" the old testament.

I kind of wish there was truth in it, it's a fascinating story really. I get why people get so invested in it.


not just a physical body, supposedly he was the only human ever born without sin since Adam. Literally a boy born with the spirit of God, he did not have original sin, and he was God on earth. God purposefully impregnated Mary with himself to be born onto the Earth.

Saying a boy made from God, well then Jesus would be no different than Adam, because God made Adam aswell, Adam was truly the "son" of God.

Jesus was not the son of God, Jesus was actually God.

[bots]

That's kind of explained here :

Jesus can be both God and the son of God because the terms don't mean the same thing. When we say that Jesus is God (John 1:1, 14; Colossians 2:9; Hebrews 1:8), we are saying that Jesus possesses the divine nature (as well as a human nature, see hypostatic union). But the term "Son of God" does not mean that Jesus is not God. Think about it. If the term "Son of God" meant that Jesus is not God, then does the term "Son of Man" mean that Jesus is not a man? Of course not. Likewise, if the term "Son of Man" means that Jesus is a man, then does it not imply that when it says Jesus is the "Son of God" that he is God? We ought not look at the ancient words found in Scripture and judge them by modern thinking.

"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God," (John 5:18).

As you can see in this verse, Jesus was calling God his own Father, making himself equal to God. Therefore, the term Son of God is a designation of the equality with God when it is a reference to Christ.

https://carm.org/how-can-jesus-be-both-god-and-son-of-god

well that's as clear as .... mud :laugh:


anyway, given its entirely a work of fiction to my mind, i really don't care one way or another, but I do know what I was taught as a kid, and that was what I repeated.

Wars have been fought (literally) over less

[user104658]

not just a physical body, supposedly the only human ever born without sin since Adam. literally a boy born with the spirit of God, he did not have original sin, and he was God on earth.

Saying a boy made from God, well then Jesus would be no different than Adam, because God made Adam aswell, Adam was truly the "son" of God.

Jesus was not the son of God, Jesus was actually God.Well that would be because original sin is part of the soul that inhabits the human body, whereas Jesus didn't have a human soul, he was just a flesh-suit for the soul of God to ride around in for a while.

[lostalex]

It's really weird to me that so many christian people on this forum are so confused about the nature of Jesus. I'm a total atheist and it seems i understand the religion more than most people. lol

[lostalex]

Well that would be because original sin is part of the soul that inhabits the human body, whereas Jesus didn't have a human soul, he was just a flesh-suit for the soul of God to ride around in for a while.

eggggsactly. Jesus was GOD. That's the whole point. You get it. That's the entire premise of the religion. I didn't realize that some people didn't get that. Some people seem to think that Jesus is a separate entity from God.

[Niamh.]

well that's as clear as .... mud :laugh:


anyway, given its entirely a work of fiction to my mind, i really don't care one way or another, but I do know what I was taught as a kid, and that was what I repeated.

Wars have been fought (literally) over less

Oh me neither but it is definitely how I was taught it :laugh:

[Niamh.]

Well that would be because original sin is part of the soul that inhabits the human body, whereas Jesus didn't have a human soul, he was just a flesh-suit for the soul of God to ride around in for a while.

yeah exactly I thought the article I posted explained it pretty well, basically if being "the Son of man" makes you a man then being "the Son of God" would make you God

[lostalex]

anyways, the whole thing makes no sense, so I really can't believe that i'm defending it or explaining it lol

[Niamh.]

anyways, the whole thing makes no sense, so I really can't believe that i'm defending it or explaining it lol

Same :laugh:

[Crimson Dynamo]

so who is the Pope then?

:huh:

[user104658]

The way I see it is, if I can justify the lore behind Game of Thrones then I can justify the lore behind Game of Bibles :joker:. It's fiction but meh... I like fiction, and thinking about fiction, even if half of the time the ideas that come out of it are way beyond what the writer actually ever intended.

[Marsh.]

it's been a while, so i thought i better check [emoji23]

In the New Testament, "Son of God" is applied to Jesus on many occasions.[2] Jesus is declared to be the Son of God on two separate occasions by a voice speaking from Heaven. Jesus is also explicitly and implicitly described as the Son of God by himself and by various individuals who appear in the New Testament.[2][5][6][7] As applied to Jesus, the term is a reference to his role as the Messiah, the King chosen by God.[8] The contexts and ways in which Jesus' title, Son of God, means something more than or other than Messiah remain the subject of ongoing scholarly study and discussion.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Son_of_God
Never mind scholarly discussion. Lostalex knows.

[lostalex]

Same :laugh:

*huggles and snuggles* I missed you. we'll be fine. :hug:

[user104658]

so who is the Pope then?

:huh:The Pope is Jesus' nephew.

[lostalex]

The Pope is Jesus' nephew.

The Pope is the direct human connection to God. It's a like a democracy now, we humans elect a human to have direct communication. he's basically the middleman. he's the in-between.

[Niamh.]

*huggles and snuggles* I missed you. we'll be fine. :hug:

:hug: Where have you been hiding anyway Alex?

[lostalex]

:hug: Where have you been hiding anyway Alex?

Oh it's a very long gay sexual story...I've been busy lol When i was a regular here i was basically an agoraphobic. I've been getting out of the house for the past 3 years lol.

[Niamh.]

Never mind scholarly discussion. Lostalex knows.

Seriously though that is actually what you are taught in religion class/bible studies in Catholicism anyway

[Niamh.]

Oh it's a very long gay sexual story...I've been busy lol When i was a regular here i was basically an agoraphobic.

:laugh:

Well in that case sounds like it's good you weren't here?

[Cherie]

The fumes. :joker:

The way TS explains in his first post is exactly how I meant.

Jesus is not God in and of himself. He is a part of God. Very different. Hence being the son.

All of the parts collectively are God.

this is what I learned, Niamh wasn't listening in class

[Niamh.]

this is what I learned, Niamh wasn't listening in class

You weren't listening in class it seems :nono:

[Cherie]

You weren't listening in class it seems :nono:

I never listened in class much :hee:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Oh it's a very long gay sexual story...

typical Marsh weekend

[lostalex]

You weren't listening in class it seems :nono:

I really think straight men hear something different. I noticed this in my religious classes. They really don't get the idea what God is part of EVERYTHING. they compartmentalize God. They really don't get that God is everywhere and everything, like they really think they can get away with stuff, and still be perfectly pure. It's bizarre how straight men justify their fakery and fouckery. they can beat the **** out of their wives, but if anyone treats their mom or sister or daughter badly, they will go ballistic.

[Cherie]

I'm sure ours closes at 4 on a sunday. Lazy bastards wanting an extra hour off :bored:

My mate works in tesco and apparently shes having to work xmas day. Shops not open, but they still want staff in. horrible *****. No need for anyone who works in a shop to do xmas really. Maybe with the exception of a couple of petrol stations and corner shops where the OWNERS do the shifts as they want the cash

I think shops can be open 10 to 4, or 11 to 5, so they may open an hour earlier

no one should have to work Christmas Day, its bad enough that they start the online sales now on Christmas Day, in Ireland the shops close for 2 days Christmas and Stephens Day (Boxing) and that is how it should be, the staff need a break after the rush and before the sales start

[DemolitionRed]

There are certain industries that have to work over Xmas.

I work in the medical sector so some of us have to work Xmas day. Its always good fun though and the shifts are normally shorter than normal.

[Cherie]

There are certain industries that have to work over Xmas.

I work in the medical sector so some of us have to work Xmas day. Its always good fun though and the shifts are normally shorter than normal.

That is completely different to somewhere like Tesco being open is it not? obviously some places have to be staffed, as it would be completely inhumane and impractical not to have medical services available, but I think if someone has run out of milk they can manage for a day without it?

[Alf]

That is completely different to somewhere like Tesco being open is it not? obviously some places have to be staffed, as it would be completely inhumane and impractical not to have medical services available, but I think if someone has run out of milk they can manage for a day without it?The corner shop I live 10 seconds away from is open every Christmas day. I usually end up popping in there for some Rennies.

[DemolitionRed]

That is completely different to somewhere like Tesco being open is it not? obviously some places have to be staffed, as it would be completely inhumane and impractical not to have medical services available, but I think if someone has run out of milk they can manage for a day without it?

I agree. Leading up to Christmas always makes me laugh. People shop like there's about to be a 2-month famine.

[Marsh.]

I agree. Leading up to Christmas always makes me laugh. People shop like there's about to be a 2-month famine.
My nan used to be really bad like that.

Then she'd spend most of January passing food around to family to see who will have it before it goes out of date.

[DemolitionRed]

My nan used to be really bad like that.

Then she'd spend most of January passing food around to family to see who will have it before it goes out of date.

Awe Bless her. :hee:
Its funny how nans always cook enough to feed the household cavalry!

[jet]

The corner shop I live 10 seconds away from is open every Christmas day. I usually end up popping in there for some Rennies.

Me. :hee:

[jaxie]

Seems like a storm in a teacup but I wouldn't necessarily scream racism since no one is complaining about mixed race or ethnic families in the ad which would be racist, just about another cult/religion being featured since the ad is about a religious festival. I can see why some might find that strange and some muslims might be offended to see the ad promoting them as being part of a celebration that isn't part of their cult. In fact I'm an atheist but we do Christmas because not everyone in the household is an atheist and because I love turkey and fairy lights are pretty and who doesn't like presents? So I'm sure that would upset someone somewhere too.

[Niamh.]

Seems like a storm in a teacup but I wouldn't necessarily scream racism since no one is complaining about mixed race or ethnic families in the ad which would be racist, just about another cult/religion being featured since the ad is about a religious festival. I can see why some might find that strange and some muslims might be offended to see the ad promoting them as being part of a celebration that isn't part of their cult. In fact I'm an atheist but we do Christmas because not everyone in the household is an atheist and because I love turkey and fairy lights are pretty so I'm sure that would upset someone somewhere too.

We all are atheist too but I think Christmas has gone far beyond a religious holiday anymore anyway. I have reclaimed it as a holiday for family and friends and presents and food and drink and board games and movies and fluffy socks and PJs :hee:

[jaxie]

We all are atheist too but I think Christmas has gone far beyond a religious holiday anymore anyway. I have reclaimed it as a holiday for family and friends and presents and food and drink and board games and movies and fluffy socks and PJs :hee:

Merry fluffy socks for next month Naimh. :wavey:

[Niamh.]

Merry fluffy socks for next month Naimh. :wavey:

:laugh:

Backatchya Jaxie :love:

[user104658]

We're all atheists here too but Santa will still be coming :fist:. He's an atheist, too, because he knows everything and therefore knows that God doesn't exist... :omgno:.

Elf on the Shelf is also very real :hee:

[Livia]

My family and I always celebrate Christmas. We have a tree and decorations etc.. although it's so much nicer when Hanukkah falls around Christmas too. When I left uni I worked in an east London college which was totally multicultural. Whenever there was anything to celebrate people (women I mean!) would bring in lovely food... Diwali, Eid... everything got celebrated, really. No one was up in arms about it and I find the reaction to a Muslim family joining in with Christmas to be not only hypocritical, but also surely flies in the face of the spirit of Christmas, whether you're a Christian or not.

[Niamh.]

My family and I always celebrate Christmas. We have a tree and decorations etc.. although it's so much nicer when Hanukkah falls around Christmas too. When I left uni I worked in an east London college which was totally multicultural. Whenever there was anything to celebrate people (women I mean!) would bring in lovely food... Diwali, Eid... everything got celebrated, really. No one was up in arms about it and I find the reaction to a Muslim family joining in with Christmas to be not only hypocritical, but also surely flies in the face of the spirit of Christmas, whether you're a Christian or not.

Absolutely. I think it's good that Christmas is evolving more into a holiday celebrated by the majority of people anyway. People need holidays and time to spend having fun and spending time with friends and family and tbh the end of the year is a perfect time for that, to wind down etc. It isn't only religious people who need a break :fist:

[Livia]

Yeah, God forbid that people should get together and be a bit joyous. Let's stick to hating each other.... fa la la la la...la la la laaaaa...

[Crimson Dynamo]

Jesus would be turning in his very grave..



no, wait..

[Basileus]

One of the Twitter comments on Christmas from the "victims" may explain why the anger over this "multiculral" disaster being shoved in our face by the same repulsive creeps who WANT us to spend money in THEIR stores - theres been non-christians on Christmas adverts before with no irritation, and the answers bloody obvious why - and this repulsive character is far from the worst either. Theres the usual pedestal lecturers on here I notice as elsewhere. Many who can't usually get through a sentence without a hefty amount of the over-used -ist and -phobic words. Strangely enough they never use them against the people like the Twitter poster somehow.....(cue the predicatable "He's not a bigot I think the same because I'd swear anything to defend them while I do the opposite to what I'm claiming....")

[DemolitionRed]

One of the Twitter comments on Christmas from the "victims" may explain why the anger over this "multiculral" disaster being shoved in our face by the same repulsive creeps who WANT us to spend money in THEIR stores - theres been non-christians on Christmas adverts before with no irritation, and the answers bloody obvious why - and this repulsive character is far from the worst either. Theres the usual pedestal lecturers on here I notice as elsewhere. Many who can't usually get through a sentence without a hefty amount of the over-used -ist and -phobic words. Strangely enough they never use them against the people like the Twitter poster somehow.....

What are you even saying?

[Kazanne]

Well I am religious and like to think of the religious side of Christmas aswell as the fun side when we celebrate as for anyone else it's entirely their business whether they want to celebrate it or not,we shall be going to midnight mass if possible, and enjoying the commercial side aswell , am I the only believer on the forum ? :-)

[bots]

Well I am religious and like to think of the religious side of Christmas aswell as the fun side when we celebrate as for anyone else it's entirely their business whether they want to celebrate it or not,we shall be going to midnight mass if possible, and enjoying the commercial side aswell , am I the only believer on the forum ? :-)

i believe in the commercial side of Christmas ... does that count? :laugh:

[smudgie]

Well I am religious and like to think of the religious side of Christmas aswell as the fun side when we celebrate as for anyone else it's entirely their business whether they want to celebrate it or not,we shall be going to midnight mass if possible, and enjoying the commercial side aswell , am I the only believer on the forum ? :-)

I believe in all the traditional side of Christmas.
The tree, the decorations, the goodwill to all men..and women, the festive food, the presents, the Carols, Concert from Kings, New Years concert from Vienna, the family get together, watching the Church service on telly Xmas eve.
I believe we should all be free to have our beliefs, whatever they are as long as they don't involve hurting other people.
My kids believed in the pixies at the end of the garden for years, all a bit of magical childhood.

[Kazanne]

I believe in all the traditional side of Christmas.
The tree, the decorations, the goodwill to all men..and women, the festive food, the presents, the Carols, Concert from Kings, New Years concert from Vienna, the family get together, watching the Church service on telly Xmas eve.
I believe we should all be free to have our beliefs, whatever they are as long as they don't involve hurting other people.
My kids believed in the pixies at the end of the garden for years, all a bit of magical childhood.

I was feeling lonely in here for a second there Smudge,each to their own as long as they aren't hurting anyone else as you say.
:wavey:

[Kazanne]

i believe in the commercial side of Christmas ... does that count? :laugh:

You'll have to partake in the carol service Bots,:laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

Pub Christmas eve,Watch kids and misses open their prezzies Christmas morning,Family round and get pleasantly pissed and eat too much food and crap all day.
That’s my plan.