How did May not consider the DUPs position on the Irish Border issue

[Cherie]

How did she think that she would get the Unionists to agree to the deal she has made with the South :umm2:

Now Sadiq Khan is calling for a special deal for London, you can't blame him for jumping on the bandwagon

[Crimson Dynamo]

Time to invade Ireland, lets face it they have had it coming

[Cherie]

Ireland holding all the cards :fan:

[DemolitionRed]

This proves the chaos we are in and yesterday was a significant moment in the end of a May leadership.

The next 24 hours will be interesting.

[Cherie]

This proves the chaos we are in and yesterday was a significant moment in the end of a May leadership.

The next 24 hours will be interesting.

Don't you think its odd though, I mean you don't have to be Einstein to know the DUP are not going to agree to anything that looks like the North is aligning more with the South than mainland Britain, its almost like they want these talks to stall ....

[DemolitionRed]

Ireland holding all the cards :fan:

Yes and what does that mean for Mays government?

Not many options left other than a hard Brexit? Not leaving the EU? Stay in the Single Market and Customs Union? Have another election? If the DUP don't stand behind May, I believe its going to be another election because they can't take us into a hard Brexit with such a tiny parliamentary minority.

[DemolitionRed]

Don't you think its odd though, I mean you don't have to be Einstein to know the DUP are not going to agree to anything that looks like the North is aligning more with the South than mainland Britain, its almost like they want these talks to stall ....

I've been thinking that for a while.

[Cherie]

I've been thinking that for a while.

Me too

[Toy Soldier]

Time to invade Ireland, lets face it they have had it coming

Surely that would now constitute a "lone wolf" non-EU state invading the European Union? I don't think that would be a very good idea :umm2:. Well, unless Trump sends over some of his guys. Hooah! :joker:

Niamh would send them packing though. Infractions all round.

[Toy Soldier]

Don't you think its odd though, I mean you don't have to be Einstein to know the DUP are not going to agree to anything that looks like the North is aligning more with the South than mainland Britain, its almost like they want these talks to stall ....

In theory, they perhaps believe that Labour will win the next GE, and if they can stall full Brexit until after Labour get into power, then any and all economic implications of Brexit can be based on "the Labour government overspending" or "mismanagement" and then the Tories can weasel back in 5 years later claiming that their hands are clean...

It's pretty much by-the-book Tory tactics, isn't it? "If something is right it was us, if something is wrong it was the previous Labour government."

[bots]

Ireland was always going to use this as a method of pushing their united Ireland agenda. Northern Ireland is perfectly entitled to be treated exactly the same as other areas of the UK. Anyone that thinks this is anything even remotely related to Brexit is deluded. Its the same old political battle being fought.

[Niamh.]

Ireland was always going to use this as a method of pushing their united Ireland agenda. Northern Ireland is perfectly entitled to be treated exactly the same as other areas of the UK. Anyone that thinks this is anything even remotely related to Brexit is deluded. Its the same old political battle being fought.

I really think you're wrong about that tbqh. I seriously doubt our government wants a united Ireland, it would be so much hassle for them, they can barely run the country as it is now. My main concern (and I think alot of peoples including the governments) is that a hard border could start up the troubles again. Also, we do trade alot with NI since they're the only country sharing land with us so obviously trade is important in this.

[DemolitionRed]

Surely that would now constitute a "lone wolf" non-EU state invading the European Union? I don't think that would be a very good idea :umm2:. Well, unless Trump sends over some of his guys. Hooah! :joker:

Niamh would send them packing though. Infractions all round.

I'm off to work in a minute and I'll go to work smiling now :hee:

[Cherie]

I really think you're wrong about that tbqh. I seriously doubt our government wants a united Ireland, it would be so much hassle for them, they can barely run the country as it is now. My main concern (and I think alot of peoples including the governments) is that a hard border could start up the troubles again. Also, we do trade alot with NI since they're the only country sharing land with us so obviously trade is important in this.

I would agree with that, you might get some hard liners who want a United Ireland but in the main the generations now are more concerned with economics and more importantly not to have a return to the Troubles.

[Niamh.]

I would agree with that, you might get some hard liners who want a United Ireland but in the main the generations now are more concerned with economics and more importantly not to have a return to the Troubles.

Yeah absolutely agree. Trying to reunite Ireland now would be complete chaos for the government, they don't want to take that on

[Toy Soldier]

I think everyone in Ireland just needs to visit Dundee University. There are loads of Irish students there - from the North and South - living alongside each other in perfect harmony! All under the blanket term "Irish", or more commonly "Those mad Irish bastards". It should be an inspiration.

[Niamh.]

I think everyone in Ireland just needs to visit Dundee University. There are loads of Irish students there - from the North and South - living alongside each other in perfect harmony! All under the blanket term "Irish", or more commonly "Those mad Irish bastards". It should be an inspiration.

And why don't you think we get on with N.Irish people here? :suspect:

[Toy Soldier]

And why don't you think we get on with N.Irish people here? :suspect:

Because the Tayto guy's jacket is a different colour.

As I understand it, that was the main cause of The Troubles.

[Cherie]

In theory, they perhaps believe that Labour will win the next GE, and if they can stall full Brexit until after Labour get into power, then any and all economic implications of Brexit can be based on "the Labour government overspending" or "mismanagement" and then the Tories can weasel back in 5 years later claiming that their hands are clean...

It's pretty much by-the-book Tory tactics, isn't it? "If something is right it was us, if something is wrong it was the previous Labour government."

From the disastrous campaign where May attacked her core voters, to the shambles we have at the moment, I think the Tory's are looking for a way out as well

[The Slim Reaper]

Time to invade Ireland, lets face it they have had it coming

Why invade a country we already own?

[jaxie]

I have a good friend from NI who is very passionate about their identity as NI and not being Irish. I can't see a United Ireland any time soon.

Perhaps it's simply time for us to pick up our money bags and leave the EU. Pretty sure we can figure out the border as neighbours by leaving it alone as much as possible.

[joeysteele]

I really think you're wrong about that tbqh. I seriously doubt our government wants a united Ireland, it would be so much hassle for them, they can barely run the country as it is now. My main concern (and I think alot of peoples including the governments) is that a hard border could start up the troubles again. Also, we do trade alot with NI since they're the only country sharing land with us so obviously trade is important in this.


I agree with all that 100%.

As to Mrs May not considering the DUP.
The real question is who does this incompetent arrogant woman ever really consider anyway.

Although it irks me massively the DUP have any main influence at all, it's a mystery to me why these political dinosaurs get the support they do in Northern Ireland.

[Niamh.]

I agree with all that 100%.

As to Mrs May not considering the DUP.
The real question is who does this incompetent arrogant woman ever really consider anyway.

Although it irks me massively the DUP have any main influence at all, it's a mystery to me why these political dinosaurs get the support they do in Northern Ireland.

Absolutely, they're only going to be concerned with one side in NI.

I do agree though that it seems highly unlikely and somewhat suspicious that it wouldn't have occurred to Teresa May or any of her advisers that the DUP would throw a spanner in the works of any deal she made with the Irish government

[Brillopad]

How did she think that she would get the Unionists to agree to the deal she has made with the South :umm2:

Now Sadiq Khan is calling for a special deal for London, you can't blame him for jumping on the bandwagon

I would also question why the DUP didn't consider the deal over the border which is in contradiction with many peoples' immigration concerns and votes for Brexit. Simply a gateway from Ireland to England.

[jet]

I agree with all that 100%.

As to Mrs May not considering the DUP.
The real question is who does this incompetent arrogant woman ever really consider anyway.

Although it irks me massively the DUP have any main influence at all, it's a mystery to me why these political dinosaurs get the support they do in Northern Ireland.

Is it really a mystery to you? What choice to many have? It's either the staunch religious DUP or Sinn Fein, the political party of the IRA.
The likes of the moderate SDLP, OU's or Alliance don't even get a look in any more. A vote for any of them is a lost vote now. It's a fight between 2 obnoxious parties, and it's all we have at present.
If Sinn Fein got a larger majority than the DUP, then a United Ireland beckons ever closer in the minds of those who oppose it, and Sinn Fein, the party who supported those who killed thousands of innocents would have a majority and their leader would become First Minister. So to stop that happening, the only option for the Loyalists is to vote DUP, like them or not.
To many it is preferable to vote for a dinosuar party to one that is the official party of those who tried to bomb, kill and maim their way to a United Ireland that the majority didn't want - and the South themselves didn't want.
The mess continues....

[joeysteele]

Is it really a mystery to you? What choice to many have? It's either the staunch religious DUP or Sinn Fein, the political party of the IRA.
The likes of the moderate SDLP, OU's or Alliance don't even get a look in any more. A vote for any of them is a lost vote now. It's a fight between 2 obnoxious parties, and it's all we have at present.
If Sinn Fein got a larger majority than the DUP, then a United Ireland beckons ever closer in the minds of those who oppose it, and Sinn Fein, the party who supported those who killed thousands of innocents would have a majority and their leader would become First Minister. So to stop that happening, the only option for the Loyalists is to vote DUP, like them or not. Old wounds haven't healed yet, and probably never will. To many it is preferable to vote for a dinosuar party to one that is the official party of those who tried to bomb, kill and maim their way to a United Ireland that the majority didn't want - and the South themselves didn't want.
The mess continues....


The DUP is full of bigotry and prejudice, I cannot bear them,their ideas warrant being back centuries ago.
Anyone is better than them in Northern Irish politics for me.

They aren't even democratic either,they stand against public opinion in N.Ireland on abortion and even still on gay rights too.
So yes,it's a mystery to me why anyone supports such bigotry and prejudice.

Then again if lived in N Ireland,I'd be more supportive of there being a united Ireland anyway.
There won't be I doubt very much.

Meanwhile keep electing these bigoted candidates from the DUP,with their centuries ago bigotry stance,if you wish.
Sad for N Ireland that is,in my view.

I get fed up too at them moaning about not being able to do,and take anywhere, their at times inflammatory pathetic stuffed up human toby jug like marches.
I honestly cannot stand them or much they stand for.

[jet]

The DUP is full of bigotry and prejudice, I cannot bear them,their ideas warrant being back centuries ago.
Anyone is better than them in Northern Irish politics for me.

They aren't even democratic either,they stand against public opinion in N.Ireland on abortion and even still on gay rights too.
So yes,it's a mystery to me why anyone supports such bigotry and prejudice.

Then again if lived in N Ireland,I'd be more supportive of there being a united Ireland anyway.
There won't be I doubt very much.

Meanwhile keep electing these bigoted candidates from the DUP,with their centuries ago bigotry stance,if you wish.
Sad for N Ireland that is,in my view.

I get fed up too at them moaning about not being able to do,and take anywhere, their at times inflammatory pathetic stuffed up human toby jug like marches.
I honestly cannot stand them or much they stand for.

Well no, I support the SDLP as I have said many times, and always have, even though it's a wasted vote nowadays. And you do know the Republic of Ireland is anti - abortion too, so a United Ireland would change nothing in that respect.
You haven't a bad word to say there about the other obnoxious political party, Sinn Fein, the official party of the murderous IRA. Very telling.

[joeysteele]

Well no, I support the SDLP as I have said many times, and always have, even though it's a wasted vote nowadays. And you do know the Republic of Ireland is anti - abortion too, so a United Ireland would change nothing in that respect.
You haven't a bad word to say there about the other obnoxious political party, Sinn Fein, the official party of the murderous IRA. Very telling.


I consider Sinn Féin have more moved on from the troubled past.
Great wrongs on both sides and Unionist parties fuelled said troubles too.

Why would I say anything about Sinn Féin,this thread is about the DUP.
It is not Sinn Féin holding the present govt.to ransom in
Some way for their votes, it's only the DUP.

[smudgie]

Perhaps Mrs May was trying her hand so to speak.
Surely NI, as part of the U.K. should be treat the same way with the same rights as anyone living anywhere else in the UK.
The problem is sorting the borders out, there must be some way to find an amicable solution that will suit all.
Other EU countries have borders with none EU countries, maybe take a good look at them and see what works.

Edit. what will happen with Spain and Gibralter, I know they only have a small border so the cost etc will be massively different, but the same rules should apply to all UK citizens surely.

[jet]

I consider Sinn Féin have more moved on from the troubled past.
Great wrongs on both sides and Unionist parties fuelled said troubles too.

Why would I say anything about Sinn Féin,this thread is about the DUP.
It is not Sinn Féin holding the present govt.to ransom in
Some way for their votes, it's only the DUP.

I've never seen you write a bad word about Sinn Fein, even in threads relating to them....and comparing them, as the official party of the IRA who murdered thousands of innocents to Unionist involvement in the killings and bombings is just ludicrous...and again, very telling as to your sympathies.
As a N.Ireland catholic (who doesn't practise their religion anymore, admittedly,) who lived here throughout the whole of the troubles, don't try to tell me what went on and who was responsible for the majority of the suffering.
The DUP, as bigoted as they are, were never the official party of any terrorist organisation. Sinn Fein have members in their party to this day who carried out bombings and killings and were released from prison, never serving their time, as part of the Good Friday Agreement.
You detest the DUP, I detest both parties, for very different reasons....but give me a bigot over a murderer of innocent children any day.

[jet]

I really think you're wrong about that tbqh. I seriously doubt our government wants a united Ireland, it would be so much hassle for them, they can barely run the country as it is now. My main concern (and I think alot of peoples including the governments) is that a hard border could start up the troubles again. Also, we do trade alot with NI since they're the only country sharing land with us so obviously trade is important in this.

All very true. The North and South rub along very well together, all this is very worrying.

[joeysteele]

I've never seen you write a bad word about Sinn Fein, even in threads relating to them....and comparing them, as the official party of the IRA who murdered thousands of innocents to Unionist involvement in the killings and bombings is just ludicrous...and again, very telling as to your sympathies.
As a N.Ireland catholic (who doesn't practise their religion anymore, admittedly,) who lived here throughout the whole of the troubles, don't try to tell me what went on and who was responsible for the majority of the suffering.
The DUP, as bigoted as they are, were never the official party of any terrorist organisation. Sinn Fein have members in their party to this day who carried out bombings and killings and were released from prison, never serving their time, as part of the Good Friday Agreement.
You detest the DUP, I detest both parties, for very different reasons....but give me a bigot over a murderer of innocent children any day.

Well with respect jet dont try to tell me either.
My Grandparents lived in Mullingar in Southern Ireland,
not far from the border with N Ireland, Several of family of mine lived in N Ireland and family friends too.

They lost people in the troubles as many did.

It is time for those who can to move on and be grateful for the peace that came to be.

You rerun your hatred of IRA all you wish,while ignoring the funding and support going on as to Unionists to help not only fuel the atrocities and troubles but help extend them.

You nor I have a monopoly as to the troubles,thankfully and hopefully past,as to N Ireland now.
I know a great deal as to Irish history and politics with my Mother's side being full Irish.

I see bigotry.prejudice and an uncompromising attitude alive and well still in the DUP.
Much moreso than in other Parties in N Ireland and yes,even as to Sinn Féin.

[Niamh.]

Well no, I support the SDLP as I have said many times, and always have, even though it's a wasted vote nowadays. And you do know the Republic of Ireland is anti - abortion too, so a United Ireland would change nothing in that respect.
You haven't a bad word to say there about the other obnoxious political party, Sinn Fein, the official party of the murderous IRA. Very telling.We have a referendum on it in a few months actually, polls would suggest we are not anti abortion and it's likely to be passed

[Niamh.]

All very true. The North and South rub along very well together, all this is very worrying.Yeah it is. I still think it's odd that Teresa May said they had an agreement before talking to the DUP about it first though, I agree with others that she wants out if government and to pass it on to someone else.

[jet]

Well with respect jet dont try to tell me either.
My Grandparents lived in Mullingar in Southern Ireland,
not far from the border with N Ireland, Several of family of mine lived in N Ireland and family friends too.

They lost people in the troubles as many did.

It is time for those who can to move on and be grateful for the peace that came to be.

You rerun your hatred of IRA all you wish,while ignoring the funding and support going on as to Unionists to help not only fuel the atrocities and troubles but help extend them.

You nor I have a monopoly as to the troubles,thankfully and hopefully past,as to N Ireland now.
I know a great deal as to Irish history and politics with my Mother's side being full Irish.

I see bigotry.prejudice and an uncompromising attitude alive and well still in the DUP.
Much moreso than in other Parties in N Ireland and yes,even as to Sinn Féin.

I wish I'd lived in Mullingar, and not in Belfast. Not the same at all. You say you have relatives who lost loved ones, I take it they weren't killed by the IRA?
As for yourself, you can't equate what you have read about the politics and history of the troubles to actually being in the heart of it, day in and day out personally for its duration.
You don't mention the IRA drug running, knee capping and protection rackets still going on in their own communities in Belfast and Derry. Why not? You don't mention the arms they were supposed to give up but didn't, just in case they have to return to their murderous ways.
As for the DUP being currently funded to continue the troubles, I doubt it, but I can't say for sure as I have never heard of it. I do know that some in the Loyalist UVF also have a drug running cartel. Both sides still instil fear into their own communities for personal profit.
And I repeat, give me a bigot any day over a murderer of innocent children. Bigotry seems to be the bigger deal for you, as you have again failed to condemn the murder of innocent children by the iRA and don't seem to care that Sinn Fein currently have members in their ranks who are convicted murderers.
You talk about my re - run of hatred for the IRA, a murderous terrorist organisation - what about your re - run of hatred for the DUP because they don't agree with gay marriage and are living in the dark ages? I just can't reconcile that being bigoted is worse to you than the murder of a child. Yet that seems to be the case. You'll say - that's in the past - no it ISN'T, not for those many many people who lost those children in particular that had their lives taken away from them before they had barely begun. I hope and pray that peace lasts, but I'll NEVER forget.

[DemolitionRed]

Well with respect jet dont try to tell me either.
My Grandparents lived in Mullingar in Southern Ireland,
not far from the border with N Ireland, Several of family of mine lived in N Ireland and family friends too.

They lost people in the troubles as many did.

It is time for those who can to move on and be grateful for the peace that came to be.

You rerun your hatred of IRA all you wish,while ignoring the funding and support going on as to Unionists to help not only fuel the atrocities and troubles but help extend them.

You nor I have a monopoly as to the troubles,thankfully and hopefully past,as to N Ireland now.
I know a great deal as to Irish history and politics with my Mother's side being full Irish.

I see bigotry.prejudice and an uncompromising attitude alive and well still in the DUP.
Much moreso than in other Parties in N Ireland and yes,even as to Sinn Féin.

This is a much needed point. Modern politics in a modern Ireland.

The long war was a tragic one and SF's involvement with the IRA is somewhat troublesome but what SF are doing in todays Ireland is representing the voice of many Irish people. With Good Friday behind them, they aren't, by many, seen as republicans anymore but a political party that are anti-austerity in this on going economic turmoil.

[jet]

We have a referendum on it in a few months actually, polls would suggest we are not anti abortion and it's likely to be passed

Currently its against the law though, except in cases of endangerment to the life of the mother. It would be a great step forward if that law was changed, and maybe N.Ireland would follow suit though the DUP would put up a fight. :mad:

[Niamh.]

Currently its against the law though, except in cases of endangerment to the life of the mother. It would be a great step forward if that law was changed, and maybe N.Ireland would follow suit though the DUP would put up a fight. :mad:Yeah it should go through, fingers crossed, I think it'll be during the summer sometime I think

[DemolitionRed]

I wish I'd lived in Mullingar, and not in Belfast. Not the same at all. You say you have relatives who lost loved ones, I take it they weren't killed by the IRA?
As for yourself, you can't equate what you have read about the politics and history of the troubles to actually being in the heart of it, day in and day out personally for its duration.
You don't mention the IRA drug running, knee capping and protection rackets still going on in their own communities in Belfast and Derry. Why not? You don't mention the arms they were supposed to give up but didn't, just in case they have to return to their murderous ways.
As for the DUP being currently funded to continue the troubles, I doubt it, but I can't say for sure as I have never heard of it. I do know that some in the Loyalist UVF also have a drug running cartel. Both sides still instil fear into their own communities for personal profit.
And I repeat, give me a bigot any day over a murderer of innocent children. Bigotry seems to be the bigger deal for you, as you have again failed to condemn the murder of innocent children by the iRA and don't seem to care that Sinn Fein currently have members in their ranks who are convicted murderers.
You talk about my re - run of hatred for the IRA, a murderous terrorist organisation - what about your re - run of hatred for the DUP because they don't agree with gay marriage and are living in the dark ages? I just can't reconcile that being bigoted is worse to you than the murder of a child. Yet that seems to be the case. You'll say - that's in the past - no it ISN'T, not for those many many people who lost those children in particular that had their lives taken away from them before they had barely begun. I hope and pray that peace lasts, but I'll NEVER forget.

I can see this is a very emotional topic for you and that's understandable. I do know what its like to lose a loved one to war... or not even war but a stupid revolution where people get randomly murdered and I know what its like to live in a country where you dread that knock on the door late at night.

What the IRA did was needless and undoubtedly cruel and Sinn Fein's most certainly got blood on their hands. They have however, moved on to fight for the poor mans rights in a country, or part of a country still ruled by Britain.

Parties like the DUP rely on Sinn Fein's old reputation but remember this, so long as Sinn Fein is popular, you have a party, that in part ties the hands of parties like the DUP... they keep such parties harnessed and surely that has to be a good thing?

[joeysteele]

I wish I'd lived in Mullingar, and not in Belfast. Not the same at all. You say you have relatives who lost loved ones, I take it they weren't killed by the IRA?
As for yourself, you can't equate what you have read about the politics and history of the troubles to actually being in the heart of it, day in and day out personally for its duration.
You don't mention the IRA drug running, knee capping and protection rackets still going on in their own communities in Belfast and Derry. Why not? You don't mention the arms they were supposed to give up but didn't, just in case they have to return to their murderous ways.
As for the DUP being currently funded to continue the troubles, I doubt it, but I can't say for sure as I have never heard of it. I do know that some in the Loyalist UVF also have a drug running cartel. Both sides still instil fear into their own communities for personal profit.
And I repeat, give me a bigot any day over a murderer of innocent children. Bigotry seems to be the bigger deal for you, as you have again failed to condemn the murder of innocent children by the iRA and don't seem to care that Sinn Fein currently have members in their ranks who are convicted murderers.
You talk about my re - run of hatred for the IRA, a murderous terrorist organisation - what about your re - run of hatred for the DUP because they don't agree with gay marriage and are living in the dark ages? I just can't reconcile that being bigoted is worse to you than the murder of a child. Yet that seems to be the case. You'll say - that's in the past - no it ISN'T, not for those many many people who lost those children in particular that had their lives taken away from them before they had barely begun. I hope and pray that peace lasts, but I'll NEVER forget.

I said they had family and friends in the North.

Don't assume or twist my wording jet.

I said people were list,friends in the North,yes by the IRA.
However things have to move on,as I said for those that can and will let it.

Nobody is ever saying forget the atrocities, however re-runjibg them at every opportunity is not that helpful either,as to any peace process.

My dislike of the DUP is their stance on issues now,at this moment in time right now.
They also seem,to me anyway, to like to keep the divisions going,especially with some of their ridiculous marches.

Anyway I've said my thinking, and am no longer going round in circles with you.
My views are clearly made as are yours.

[bots]

Perhaps Mrs May was trying her hand so to speak.
Surely NI, as part of the U.K. should be treat the same way with the same rights as anyone living anywhere else in the UK.
The problem is sorting the borders out, there must be some way to find an amicable solution that will suit all.
Other EU countries have borders with none EU countries, maybe take a good look at them and see what works.

Edit. what will happen with Spain and Gibralter, I know they only have a small border so the cost etc will be massively different, but the same rules should apply to all UK citizens surely.

gib will go back to the enforced border that it always had. I'm sure you remember how isolated it once was, getting food etc by sea and air.

If sides won't compromise and agree on a solution, you propose one for them. That's standard practice and that's what May has done. Agreement will come at some point, but I still maintain, as with Spain, old political motives rule their attitudes.

[jet]

I can see this is a very emotional topic for you and that's understandable. I do know what its like to lose a loved one to war... or not even war but a stupid revolution where people get randomly murdered and I know what its like to live in a country where you dread that knock on the door late at night.

What the IRA did was needless and undoubtedly cruel and Sinn Fein's most certainly got blood on their hands. They have however, moved on to fight for the poor mans rights in a country, or part of a country still ruled by Britain.

Parties like the DUP rely on Sinn Fein's old reputation but remember this, so long as Sinn Fein is popular, you have a party, that in part ties the hands of parties like the DUP... they keep such parties harnessed and surely that has to be a good thing?

It's not a good thing because while Sinn Fein remain popular, the DUP are guaranteed popularity to stop Sinn Fein having majority seats. So the other more moderate parties from both sides are becoming dead in the water. It's now just a Sinn Fein/DUP fight for the most power and neither party is doing N. Ireland any good at all.
For example, one sticking point to getting Stormont up and running again is Sinn Feins insistence on an Irish Language Act where they want the cost of translators in courts etc when everyone can speak perfectly good English in N. Ireland and very few can even speak the Irish Language. In other words, those that can speak it are insisting on it just because...what is the sense in that? and they want every street name put up in Irish as well as the existing English. What a waste of money better spent on essential services. Meanwhile all the parties are collecting their wages and not doing their jobs while funds are being withheld from hospitals and schools while the lot of them bicker and each side is as stubborn as the other.
It's a mess.

[smudgie]

gib will go back to the enforced border that it always had. I'm sure you remember how isolated it once was, getting food etc by sea and air.

If sides won't compromise and agree on a solution, you propose one for them. That's standard practice and that's what May has done. Agreement will come at some point, but I still maintain, as with Spain, old political motives rule their attitudes.

Yes. I can see all of that.
It has to be sorted, and you will always have winners and losers, or people that are happy with it and people that aren't.
Not easy.

[DemolitionRed]

It's not a good thing because while Sinn Fein remain popular, the DUP are guaranteed popularity to stop Sinn Fein having majority seats. So the other more moderate parties from both sides are becoming dead in the water. It's now just a Sinn Fein/DUP fight for the most power and neither party is doing N. Ireland any good at all.
For example, one sticking point to getting Stormont up and running again is Sinn Feins insistence on an Irish Language Act where they want the cost of translators in courts etc when everyone can speak perfectly good English in N. Ireland and very few can even speak the Irish Language. In other words, those that can speak it are insisting on it just because...what is the sense in that? and they want every street name put up in Irish as well as the existing English. What a waste of money better spent on essential services. Meanwhile all the parties are collecting their wages and not doing their jobs while funds are being withheld from hospitals and schools while the lot of them bicker and each side is as stubborn as the other.
It's a mess.

I get what you're saying.

[Northern Monkey]

The Tories need to get fully prepared for a no deal Brexit now.
It’s certainly quite a big sticking point with very few if any solutions.
We can’t stay in the Customs union as it will stop us making our own much needed trade deals.We can’t have a border on the Island or Ireland as it would be regressive to the peace process and we can’t have a border in the Irish sea segregating two parts of Britain.
I’m not clever enough to see a solution.
Even with a no deal though a special arrangement needs to be made for NI and Ireland.

[DemolitionRed]

The Tories need to get fully prepared for a no deal Brexit now.
It’s certainly quite a big sticking point with very few if any solutions.
We can’t stay in the Customs union as it will stop us making our own much needed trade deals.We can’t have a border on the Island or Ireland as it would be regressive to the peace process and we can’t have a border in the Irish sea segregating two parts of Britain.
I’m not clever enough to see a solution.

What a conundrum!

[Cherie]

Ireland holding the Brits to ransom, how times have changed :hehe:

[Niamh.]

The Tories need to get fully prepared for a no deal Brexit now.
It’s certainly quite a big sticking point with very few if any solutions.
We can’t stay in the Customs union as it will stop us making our own much needed trade deals.We can’t have a border on the Island or Ireland as it would be regressive to the peace process and we can’t have a border in the Irish sea segregating two parts of Britain.
I’m not clever enough to see a solution.
Even with a no deal though a special arrangement needs to be made for NI and Ireland.

It's a terrible situation, things were going so well with with Britain, N.Ireland and Ireland as well the last few years. I really hope this gets sorted in a way to keep everyone happy but it's looking less and less likely now :(

[bots]

It's a terrible situation, things were going so well with with Britain, N.Ireland and Ireland as well the last few years. I really hope this gets sorted in a way to keep everyone happy but it's looking less and less likely now :(

Its not really hard to resolve actually, what it actually requires is trust and a willingness to move forward and make it work. At the moment we are a long way from that position because there are too many agendas

[Niamh.]

Its not really hard to resolve actually, what it actually requires is trust and a willingness to move forward and make it work. At the moment we are a long way from that position because there are too many agendas

Looks like you need a job in government BOTS :laugh: with all due respect you have it totally wrong thinking the Irish government wants a United Ireland.

[bots]

Looks like you need a job in government BOTS :laugh: with all due respect you have it totally wrong thinking the Irish government wants a United Ireland.

lol, thats just one facet, there are a load of others, and it doesn't really matter if they do or don't want it now, it has contributed to the whole shaping of the situation as we have it today. Rightly or wrongly, people are fearful of where things may go. Add the bureaucratic nightmare that is the EU with their own agenda, and even Spain, with theirs and the whole thing gets messed up even further.

Like I said earlier, Brexit, has very little to do with it in reality, it's just a focal point for "winning" a battle.

[Niamh.]

lol, thats just one facet, there are a load of others, and it doesn't really matter if they do or don't want it now, it has contributed to the whole shaping of the situation as we have it today. Rightly or wrongly, people are fearful of where things may go. Add the bureaucratic nightmare that is the EU with their own agenda, and even Spain, with theirs and the whole thing gets messed up even further.

Like I said earlier, Brexit, has very little to do with it in reality, it's just a focal point for "winning" a battle.

I'm not going to even attempt to get into the Spain situation because I don't know enough about it all. But regarding Ireland, do you really think it has nothing to do with economics for Ireland? I mean do you think we're all that moronic over here that we aren't worried about our trade and how it will effect us? We're a little Island in the middle of an ocean cut off from the rest of the EU now since the UK has left but you think we're not worried about how that will effect us and are only thinking about some lost romantic notion of a United Ireland? Ok then.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Ireland should be united, all pulling in one direction

make Belfast the capital with the parliament etc and move forward

Call it the United Northern Ireland

[Northern Monkey]

I know it was us who decided to leave but to me the EU need to stop being so stubborn and get onto the trade part of the negotiations.It is key to the Irish border issue.Like Bots said with willingness i’m sure some sort of bespoke special arrangement could be worked out(it will have to be) but it’s probably going to be complicated and it will definitely involve trade.
Beyond all the bluster the EU and individual countries in it dont want a no deal.It will hurt everyone.If the EU hurts it’s own member states with pig headedness the anti-EU sentiment within will rise.

[Niamh.]

Ireland should be united, all pulling in one direction

make Belfast the capital with the parliament etc and move forward

Call it the United Northern Ireland

Cork is going for Independence anyway #thepeoplesrepublicofCork

http://cdn.thejournal.ie/embeds/twitter/ede50c0db17a3deb1473a5b5a4e9bf32.png

[bots]

I'm not going to even attempt to get into the Spain situation because I don't know enough about it all. But regarding Ireland, do you really think it has nothing to do with economics for Ireland? I mean do you think we're all that moronic over here that we aren't worried about our trade and how it will effect us? We're a little Island in the middle of an ocean cut off from the rest of the EU now since the UK has left but you think we're not worried about how that will effect us and are only thinking about some lost romantic notion of a United Ireland? Ok then.

Ireland as an independent country chose to join the EU, its choice, and its staying there, that hasn't changed. I think what you are saying is that, that decision is only viable if the UK is too, which may be true, but it shouldn't involve them forcing the UK to be part of the club against their will. People need to compromise

[Niamh.]

Ireland as an independent country chose to join the EU, its choice, and its staying there, that hasn't changed. I think what you are saying is that, that decision is only viable if the UK is too, which may be true, but it shouldn't involve them forcing the UK to be part of the club against their will. People need to compromise

No that isn't what I'm saying at all

[bots]

Sufficient progress has been made in Brexit talks, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has said; paving the way for talks on the future UK-EU relationship.

Theresa May arrived in Brussels on Friday morning following overnight talks on the issue of the Irish border.

The PM said there would be no hard border and the Good Friday Agreement would be upheld.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42277040

[Northern Monkey]

Sufficient progress has been made in Brexit talks, European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker has said; paving the way for talks on the future UK-EU relationship.

Theresa May arrived in Brussels on Friday morning following overnight talks on the issue of the Irish border.

The PM said there would be no hard border and the Good Friday Agreement would be upheld.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42277040

That’s good.It seems all this noise of no deal might have worked.

[Toy Soldier]

The PM said there would be no hard border and the Good Friday Agreement would be upheld.

How are they going to control EU immigration if part of the UK has a soft border with an EU country? :joker:.

[Northern Monkey]

How are they going to control EU immigration if part of the UK has a soft border with an EU country? :joker:.

Exactly.Hoping they explain this throughout the day.

All those farming lorries that go between south and north will be rammed with illegals unless some kind of check can be done.
Hard border between Ireland and EU mainland?

Hard border in the Irish Sea?

Checks once already in the country?

[Cherie]

I think someone summed this up very well earlier, this is going to be a decade of turmoil with both remainers and leavers feeling betrayed and cheated

[Cherie]

Exactly.Hoping they explain this throughout the day.

All those farming lorries that go between south and north will be rammed with illegals unless some kind of check can be done.
Hard border between Ireland and EU mainland?

Hard border in the Irish Sea?

Checks once already in the country?

I know people have flagged this but (a) they have to get to Southern Ireland first and then (b) how do they get from NI to the mainland, I assume you still have to show your passport at airports and ferries?

[smudgie]

I know people have flagged this but (a) they have to get to Southern Ireland first and then (b) how do they get from NI to the mainland, I assume you still have to show your passport at airports and ferries?

Yes, surely there is some sort of border control already in place from mainland EU to ensure no illegals get into Ireland, as there is here from other EU countries. If not, why not?

[Niamh.]

Yes, surely there is some sort of border control already in place from mainland EU to ensure no illegals get into Ireland, as there is here from other EU countries. If not, why not?

Of course there is

[bots]

Of course there is

given a plate of potatoes, if they don't wolf them down, they don't get in :laugh:

[Cherie]

Yes, surely there is some sort of border control already in place from mainland EU to ensure no illegals get into Ireland, as there is here from other EU countries. If not, why not?

yes there is so I don't know where all these illegals are supposed to get in from, swimming the Irish Sea ...good luck with that one

[Northern Monkey]

But suppose we have a situation where the EU has let someone in and given them the right to travel but we don’t necessarily want them in GB.Once they’ve legally traveled to Ireland they can just waltz over the border into Britain unchecked.Maybe not a likely situation but a possible one.We may disagree on whether a person should be allowed in.

[Cherie]

But suppose we have a situation where the EU has let someone in and given them the right to travel but we don’t necessarily want them in GB.Once they’ve legally traveled to Ireland they can just waltz over the border into Britain unchecked.Maybe not a likely situation but a possible one.We may disagree on whether a person should be allowed in.

I would assume there will be new rules for EU nationals at some point though so they will need some sort of visa to enter Britain

[Northern Monkey]

I would assume there will be new rules for EU nationals at some point though so they will need some sort of visa to enter Britain

But with no border there’ll be nobody to check the Visa.Unless the Irish border guards end up with the job of checking whether somebody is permitted to access both Ireland and N.I but that would mean rejecting people who were actually legal to enter their country.

[Toy Soldier]

But suppose we have a situation where the EU has let someone in and given them the right to travel but we don’t necessarily want them in GB.Once they’ve legally traveled to Ireland they can just waltz over the border into Britain unchecked.Maybe not a likely situation but a possible one.We may disagree on whether a person should be allowed in.

This was sort of my point; that they wouldn't be illegally in the EU, I was talking mainly about the residents of other EU members states who (supposedly) want access to the UK and that Brexit was (supposedly) going to stop. They will have free movement within the EU still, therefore, they will be free to travel to and within Ireland... and if there is a soft border (by which I mean one you wouldn't even need to be smuggled over - one that you could just simply walk across, as is the case now) then they would have free access to NI too.

I would assume there will be new rules for EU nationals at some point though so they will need some sort of visa to enter Britain

Making getting to the mainland tricky, sure, but if they simply stayed in NI then they would still be in the UK :think:. My guess here is that the majority of Brexit voters (i.e. the English) don't actually give a stuff if there are illegal EU migrants in NI - so long as they don't make it across the sea to the "real" UK :joker:.

[Niamh.]

This was sort of my point; that they wouldn't be illegally in the EU, I was talking mainly about the residents of other EU members states who (supposedly) want access to the UK and that Brexit was (supposedly) going to stop. They will have free movement within the EU still, therefore, they will be free to travel to and within Ireland... and if there is a soft border (by which I mean one you wouldn't even need to be smuggled over - one that you could just simply walk across, as is the case now) then they would have free access to NI too.



Making getting to the mainland tricky, sure, but if they simply stayed in NI then they would still be in the UK :think:. My guess here is that the majority of Brexit voters (i.e. the English) don't actually give a stuff if there are illegal EU migrants in NI - so long as they don't make it across the sea to the "real" UK :joker:.

True but what can they do when they get there? they can't try to claim social welfare or they would be found to be illegal and they can't work legally either and they can't leave NI to get to Britain so is it really worth causing so much problems by insisting on a hard border?

[Cherie]

This was sort of my point; that they wouldn't be illegally in the EU, I was talking mainly about the residents of other EU members states who (supposedly) want access to the UK and that Brexit was (supposedly) going to stop. They will have free movement within the EU still, therefore, they will be free to travel to and within Ireland... and if there is a soft border (by which I mean one you wouldn't even need to be smuggled over - one that you could just simply walk across, as is the case now) then they would have free access to NI too.



Making getting to the mainland tricky, sure, but if they simply stayed in NI then they would still be in the UK :think:. My guess here is that the majority of Brexit voters (i.e. the English) don't actually give a stuff if there are illegal EU migrants in NI - so long as they don't make it across the sea to the "real" UK :joker:.


I don't think NI is attractive enough economically or weatherwise to tempt alot of illegals tbh :laugh:

[Cherie]

True but what can they do when they get there? they can't try to claim social welfare or they would be found to be illegal and they can't work legally either and they can't leave NI to get to Britain so is it really worth causing so much problems by insisting on a hard border?

I think alot of people were maybe under the assumption that you didn't have your passport checked when accessing Ireland, as you know you have it checked on the way in and the way out, once you hit London they bus you to the baggage hall, no checks :hehe:

so I guess there in lies the answer, set up passport control on the UK side for those travelling from Ireland.

[arista]

Cork is going for Independence anyway #thepeoplesrepublicofCork

http://cdn.thejournal.ie/embeds/twitter/ede50c0db17a3deb1473a5b5a4e9bf32.png


how nice

[Niamh.]

I think alot of people were maybe under the assumption that you didn't have your passport checked when accessing Ireland, as you know you have it checked on the way in and the way out, once you hit London they bus you to the baggage hall, no checks :hehe:

so I guess there in lies the answer, set up passport control on the UK side for those travelling from Ireland.

Well presumably they would already have that anyway because they would need to travel by ferry or plane and you get your passport checked there regardless if you're travelling domestically or not

[bots]

As the published information today also includes EU rights etc after brexit, I think its useful to point out that free movement of people will continue for a significant period AFTER brexit so there is plenty time to develop new procedures without unduly impacting anyone.