A camp male in the workforce

[DemolitionRed]

In my working role I’m expected to behave professionally on all levels. There is though, always a certain level of sexuality that goes on. People flirt, though not openly and certainly not to the point of awkwardness. People over dress for meetings and women play the weak and vulnerable whilst men play the heroic masculine male from time to time. Everyone though, knows not to cross the line. We all have a job to do and we all have deadlines we are expected to meet.

We have this one gay guy who works in our team. Not so long ago, when he started, you wouldn’t of known his sexual preference. He was quiet, diligent and friendly. A couple of months ago he told us all he was gay and that was well accepted by everyone. Shortly after that his voice went up a couple of pitches and he started using camp mannerisms, that was fine too, though the sudden change was a little amusing. He’s now a complete diva and makes constant sexual innuendos towards some of the guys and puts on this silly feigned act of fainting when he sees a paramedic or police officer. He’s become this extrovert performer and its starting to feel like we have this loud, rude, crude drag queen disrupting and causing chaos within the ranks. Nobody says anything because nobody wants to be accused of being homophobic.

This got me thinking. Hetrosexual men and women know not to behave in a sexual manner within the workplace. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but we all know the potential consequences. Camp men don’t appear to have those same rules and when they start acting up, like this guy above, nobody has a clue how to handle them.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated!

[Niamh.]

Honestly it's never something I've noticed or came across, is it really a massive issue in society? I mean I've come across far far far more straight and totally inappropriate men in my working life than gay men tbh

[Cal.]

I don't think it's a massive issue in most work places tbh. The constant extrovert performance would really wind me up however and I think being sexually crude is dependent on the individual. Being camp is fine, as you've said, but being overtly sexually crude all the time is not.

[Crimson Dynamo]

No DR is not asking if its a problem in workplaces she is asking for advice on this specific incident

[DemolitionRed]

Honestly it's never something I've noticed or came across, is it really a massive issue in society? I mean I've come across far far far more straight and totally inappropriate men in my working life than gay men tbh

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind camp men but when it becomes Ott within the workplace, it can have an impact on other workers. The guy is a perpetual clown and its disruptive. If any of us behaved like he does, someone from above would be having a word in our ear, but he gets away with being disruptive because its all part and parcel of his campness.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Take him aside and tell him he is acting like a prick and he better quit before he gets a sexual harassment case on his ass

[Northern Monkey]

If it goes too far and he starts making men feel uncomfortable or harassed then warn him,If he does it again sack him.
Being gay doesn’t give you a pass to be a perv at work.

[Cal.]

Take him aside and tell him he is acting like a prick and he better quit before he gets a sexual harassment case on his ass

Well they can't do that because they'd just be accused of homophobia. They'd need to go higher up and explain the impact it's having on the work place and on the team.

[Niamh.]

Don't get me wrong, I don't mind camp men but when it becomes Ott within the workplace, it can have an impact on other workers. The guy is a perpetual clown and its disruptive. If any of us behaved like he does, someone from above would be having a word in our ear, but he gets away with being disruptive because its all part and parcel of his campness.

Well he shouldn't be dealt with any differently than if he were a straight man or woman acting overly sexually and inappropriately but I can see why you'd be more reluctant to complain for fear of being labelled homophobic

[AnnieK]

An email from the higher ups reiterating expected behaviour in the workplace and sent to everyone may be enough to make him check his behaviour. If nothing changes then he can be made aware that his behaviour is unacceptable as per email that went to all staff etc.

[Cherie]

If it goes too far and he starts making men feel uncomfortable or harassed then warn him,If he does it again sack him.
Being gay doesn’t give you a pass to be a perv at work.

I would go with this, you don't get a free pass to behave unprofessionally just because you can use "a card" , its not really on in the workplace to act like this. If you have a manager mention it to him/her, if you are the manager don't feel bad about taking him aside, you would have no hesitation if the guy was straight and given its all about equality these days, that means being equal in every way

[Cherie]

An email from the higher ups reiterating expected behaviour in the workplace and sent to everyone may be enough to make him check his behaviour. If nothing changes then he can be made aware that his behaviour is unacceptable as per email that went to all staff etc.

Excellent advice!

[Niamh.]

Yeah that's a good suggestion Annie

[Crimson Dynamo]

Yes head up the email "Attention all Campmates"


:fan:

[Cherie]

Yes head up the email "Attention all Campmates"


:fan:

:joker:

[Cal.]

Yes head up the email "Attention all Campmates"


:fan:

:laugh2:

[Beso]

It needs reported to your human resources team...he needs a verbal warning and monitored.

[bots]

The usual is to get sent on awareness course ... that way you don't need to say anything

[Glenn.]

Sack it

[DemolitionRed]

I'm not the manager so I don't have to directly deal with him.

Some good advice here though so thanks.

I'd be really interested to know how HR would deal with this. I suspect there would be a lot of coughing and spluttering before a very polite letter was sent over to him. Annies suggestion of a letter to all of us could be the perfect solution.

I'm sure none of us want him to lose his job but that's not going to happen without a prior written warning.

[Oliver_W]

Annie's advice is the best route to take, but I don't see why anyone should be afraid of coming off as homophobic - the way he's behaving is unprofessional, and he's shown before that he's capable of acting properly in the workplace.

[DemolitionRed]

Annie's advice is the best route to take, but I don't see why anyone should be afraid of coming off as homophobic - the way he's behaving is unprofessional, and he's shown before that he's capable of acting properly in the workplace.

Yes, that's the thing. We have all experienced him being professional.

[Brillopad]

Well he shouldn't be dealt with any differently than if he were a straight man or woman acting overly sexually and inappropriately but I can see why you'd be more reluctant to complain for fear of being labelled homophobic

Which is ridiculous. Is it such a surprise that people object to PC if certain groups of individuals are perceived as being untouchable and above the same laws that apply to the rest of us. PC often creates this atmosphere and is in effect a highly dubious practice that singles out individuals for special treatment.

[Cherie]

Yes, that's the thing. We have all experienced him being professional.

Just makes me wonder as he felt comfortable enough to tell you guys that he was gay he felt he could be more himself maybe, if he is young it may be he doesn't realise it isn't acceptable in the workplace

[Niamh.]

Which is ridiculous. Is it such a surprise that people object to PC if certain groups of individuals are perceived as being untouchable and above the same laws that apply to the rest of us. PC often creates this atmosphere and is in effect a highly dubious practice that singles out individuals for special treatment.

Well tbf Brillo, the reason why people are afraid to complain about stuff like this is because homophobia was (and still is although not anywhere near as badly) an issue. If weren't for "PC" in the work place homophobia could still be rampant

[Niamh.]

Just makes me wonder as he felt comfortable enough to tell you guys that he was gay he felt he could be more himself maybe, if he is young it may be he doesn't realise it isn't acceptable in the workplace

Yeah i was thinking that too

[DemolitionRed]

Just makes me wonder as he felt comfortable enough to tell you guys that he was gay he felt he could be more himself maybe, if he is young it may be he doesn't realise it isn't acceptable in the workplace

Oh I'm sure, but we all know he's capable of toning it down.

[bots]

I don't think its a case of PC gone mad. The problem is that any type of inappropriate behaviour is open to interpretation/doubt until it becomes blatant, but there are many different shades open to interpretation by individuals till it becomes blatant. The same conundrum applies across any interpersonal relationship in the work place. If someone is repeatable being blatant then they are just not being nice and deserve to get pulled up on it.

[user104658]

The problem here is that you have someone who has been suppressing / altering their most basic personality in the workplace, and now has decided to be more open, which will have been a weight off his shoulders and allowed him to be more himself. The problem is, he has thus far been "faking" his work persona (everyone has one) and so now has no idea how to be himself, but also in "work mode"... and has gone way past the "balance point" into being inappropriate for work.

Honestly I would say as it was only a couple of months ago, it's worth giving him time to find that balance before making it "a thing"... if it carries on then it can be mentioned sensitively.

[Tom4784]

Not Lucas disrupting the workplace.

[DemolitionRed]

I don't think its a case of PC gone mad. The problem is that any type of inappropriate behaviour is open to interpretation/doubt until it becomes blatant, but there are many different shades open to interpretation by individuals till it becomes blatant. The same conundrum applies across any interpersonal relationship in the work place. If someone is repeatable being blatant then they are just not being nice and deserve to get pulled up on it.

I Agree. We have to experience something for the first time before we can properly look at that issue and handle it the best way possible.

With things like this we always have to question our own motives. For a while, none of the other staff so much as mentioned it because nobody wanted to be the first to say something. That isn't about being PC, its about protecting yourself from whispers and potential accusations within your place of work. We do after all, spend a good percentage of our life with our work colleagues.

I've been in a position of having to whistleblow on someone at work and the consequence of that was six months of hell. Things got so bad I had to put a mask on every time I walked into work. I was tough enough to do that but it nearly broke me and it certainly affected my life in a fairly big way. Whilst I wouldn't hesitate to still whistleblow on an abusive situation, I'm very cautious about telling tails on a bloke who annoys me to the point of affecting my work.

[DemolitionRed]

The problem here is that you have someone who has been suppressing / altering their most basic personality in the workplace, and now has decided to be more open, which will have been a weight off his shoulders and allowed him to be more himself. The problem is, he has thus far been "faking" his work persona (everyone has one) and so now has no idea how to be himself, but also in "work mode"... and has gone way past the "balance point" into being inappropriate for work.

Honestly I would say as it was only a couple of months ago, it's worth giving him time to find that balance before making it "a thing"... if it carries on then it can be mentioned sensitively.

Yes it has to be sensitive. I still think Annies idea is the best way forward. At least if we all get letter he knows somethings been said about someone and that might be enough for him to tone things down and if he starts up again we can always wave the letter at him.

[DemolitionRed]

Not Lucas disrupting the workplace.

:hehe:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Not Lucas disrupting the workplace.

Oh I'm sure, but we all know he's capable of toning it down.

not Lucas then

[Cherie]

not Lucas then

:joker: you are on form today LT

[Tom4784]

He's probably just happy you accept him so that he can be himself, he'll find his balance eventually. It's quite worrying telling new people about your sexuality, you can never be sure how they react, especially at work since discrimination is still a thing and sometimes no action will come from making a complaint or reporting the issue to a higher up.

Feeling like you could be ostracised or even at risk because of your sexuality is not a good feeling, especially when it comes to something as important as work.

[Cherie]

He's probably just happy you accept him so that he can be himself, he'll find his balance eventually. It's quite worrying telling new people about your sexuality, you can never be sure how they react, especially at work since discrimination is still a thing and sometimes no action will come from making a complaint or reporting the issue to a higher up.

Feeling like you could be ostracised or even at risk because of your sexuality is not a good feeling, especially when it comes to something as important as work.

there is no onus on colleagues to mention their sexuality though, he got the job fair and square on his ability, not how he is outside work. I doubt many swingers go into work and mention it around the water cooler

[Tom4784]

there is no onus on colleagues to mention their sexuality though, he got the job fair and square on his ability, not how he is outside work. I doubt many swingers go into work and mention it around the water cooler

Are you comparing homosexuality/bisexuality to swinging?

[Cherie]

Are you comparing homosexuality/bisexuality to swinging?

No I am comparing what you do in your private life. As long as it doesn't impinge on your worklife i don't see why anyone would need to "come out" at work, usually work colleagues find out about each other naturally like when you start talking about what you did at the weekends etc, I find it sad that he felt the need to say like it mattered because it doesn't!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Why did he need to tell anyone at work who he likes to have sex with?

[Tom4784]

People talk about their private lives all the time at work, I know a lot about the people I work with because everyone talks to each other, why shouldn't someone who isn't straight have to hide in fear of a bad reaction?

[Crimson Dynamo]

People talk about their private lives all the time at work, I know a lot about the people I work with because everyone talks to each other, why shouldn't someone who isn't straight have to hide in fear of a bad reaction?

what bad reaction is this?

[Cherie]

A couple of months ago he told us all he was gay


I might be wrong but it sounds like he announced it, no one cared, no would probably would have cared if he didn't announce it either tbh

[Tom4784]

what bad reaction is this?

The fear that comes every time someone who isn't straight has to come out to people. You can't understand it if you aren't gay/bi etc.

You pretty much have to assess every person and think 'hmm, will I be putting myself at risk of discrimination and even violence if I tell this person?'

[DemolitionRed]

There is one other gay guy and two very upwardly mobile lesbians in my team. There's no secrecy about them. He would of known about them within a week. I believe he didn't say anything for a while because he simply wanted to learn his new job role. Once he felt confident in his role, he felt confident in sharing his sexuality with us. Its definitely a confidence thing but I doubt its something he lost any sleep over.

[bots]

i have never discussed my private life at work because its ... private. If there is going to be some conflict between work and private schedules, that may be referenced, but other than that, we are there to work, not discuss each others lives.

[DemolitionRed]

Neither do I, I'm an enigma! The problem with that is, if people don't know they can make it up!

[Shaun]

Hmm he could be closeted with friends/family and finds work a new outlet for him to "be himself", is my worry...

From my experience talking about personal lives at work has always been part of the getting to know everyone package [*shoos DemolitionRed's coworker away before he can say "getting to know everyone's package more like ooooo!!"*] so it's not really that unusual to know if someone's seeing someone, is gay, has kids, has just lost a relative, or whatever, so I don't really know why that'd be an issue :unsure:

I agree with AnnieK though that just a gentle reminder of workplace conduct (ESPECIALLY with the 'fainting over men' thing, definitely a slippery slope to sexual harassment) from higher people would be fine. From someone like you it could sound condescending and give him grounds to shirk responsibility and accuse you of homophobia or whatever.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Hmm he could be closeted with friends/family and finds work a new outlet for him to "be himself", is my worry...



this is the most plausible explanation ^^

[Kizzy]

An email from the higher ups reiterating expected behaviour in the workplace and sent to everyone may be enough to make him check his behaviour. If nothing changes then he can be made aware that his behaviour is unacceptable as per email that went to all staff etc.

I'd say this, it's happened at our place, not directly linked to sexual orientation but someone who just didn't have respect for personal space boundaries... the email was generic but we all knew who it was directed at and it worked.

[Marsh.]

In my working role I’m expected to behave professionally on all levels. There is though, always a certain level of sexuality that goes on. People flirt, though not openly and certainly not to the point of awkwardness. People over dress for meetings and women play the weak and vulnerable whilst men play the heroic masculine male from time to time. Everyone though, knows not to cross the line. We all have a job to do and we all have deadlines we are expected to meet.

We have this one gay guy who works in our team. Not so long ago, when he started, you wouldn’t of known his sexual preference. He was quiet, diligent and friendly. A couple of months ago he told us all he was gay and that was well accepted by everyone. Shortly after that his voice went up a couple of pitches and he started using camp mannerisms, that was fine too, though the sudden change was a little amusing. He’s now a complete diva and makes constant sexual innuendos towards some of the guys and puts on this silly feigned act of fainting when he sees a paramedic or police officer. He’s become this extrovert performer and its starting to feel like we have this loud, rude, crude drag queen disrupting and causing chaos within the ranks. Nobody says anything because nobody wants to be accused of being homophobic.

This got me thinking. Hetrosexual men and women know not to behave in a sexual manner within the workplace. I’m not saying it doesn’t happen but we all know the potential consequences. Camp men don’t appear to have those same rules and when they start acting up, like this guy above, nobody has a clue how to handle them.

Any thoughts greatly appreciated!

You state that the men and women flirt with one another, I'd put "feigned act of fainting" in the "banter/flirting" bracket and don't see how it's anymore or less acting in a "sexual manner" than any other forms of flirting? Unless it's crossing the line and he's putting his hands on people inappropriately or saying graphic things. :shrug:

[Marsh.]

The problem here is that you have someone who has been suppressing / altering their most basic personality in the workplace, and now has decided to be more open, which will have been a weight off his shoulders and allowed him to be more himself. The problem is, he has thus far been "faking" his work persona (everyone has one) and so now has no idea how to be himself, but also in "work mode"... and has gone way past the "balance point" into being inappropriate for work.

Honestly I would say as it was only a couple of months ago, it's worth giving him time to find that balance before making it "a thing"... if it carries on then it can be mentioned sensitively.

He may just be shy around new people and once he gets to know them/gets comfortable he opens up. Not necessarily faking a personality.

[Marsh.]

Why did he need to tell anyone at work who he likes to have sex with?

People actually chat in workplaces. He may have mentioned a boyfriend or something which led the others to realise his sexuality.

[thesheriff443]

To be honest I would rather have some like this to work with than some boring person who lives for the job.

Wont be long before he has been made to feel silly and turns into mixture of tears and snot. Job done.

[Livia]

I'd have a quiet chat with him, tell him his work is appreciated and his colleagues enjoy his sense of humour, but he needs to tone it down because he's being disruptive. Have a couple of examples ready of how he has been disruptive in the past and make sure they could not be construed as homophobic, but as unprofessional.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Id snaffle his PC and put some porn on there so if it kicks off you can sack him pronto

always good to put some management safeguards in place just in case the balloon goes up

[Beso]

You state that the men and women flirt with one another, I'd put "feigned act of fainting" in the "banter/flirting" bracket and don't see how it's anymore or less acting in a "sexual manner" than any other forms of flirting? Unless it's crossing the line and he's putting his hands on people inappropriately or saying graphic things. :shrug:

But in the act of fainting he is saying "oh look at me, im sexually available to this stranger"

You dont want that when your eating your pieces.:nono:

[Marsh.]

But in the act of fainting he is saying "oh look at me, im sexually available to this stranger"

You dont want that when your eating your pieces.:nono:

No it's not, it's saying in an exaggerated and comical way "I find this person attractive"... like most forms of flirting.

It's probably OTT and unnecessary in the workplace, but it's no different to other flirting.

[Brillopad]

Well tbf Brillo, the reason why people are afraid to complain about stuff like this is because homophobia was (and still is although not anywhere near as badly) an issue. If weren't for "PC" in the work place homophobia could still be rampant

But PC has gone too far, the majority of people feel that way now.

[DemolitionRed]

To be honest I would rather have some like this to work with than some boring person who lives for the job.

Wont be long before he has been made to feel silly and turns into mixture of tears and snot. Job done.

When it involves peoples health and even saving peoples lives its kind of important we take work life seriously.

[Marsh.]

the majority of people feel that way now.

The majority of people don't feel that way now.

[Beso]

No it's not, it's saying in an exaggerated and comical way "I find this person attractive"... like most forms of flirting.

It's probably OTT and unnecessary in the workplace, but it's no different to other flirting.

The point of the thread is that its making people feel uncomfortable.

I guess it depends who is doing it though, you could look at it both ways...like if brenda on reception was winking and nodding at gemma in accounts when troy the postman came in...or if old bob and dirty des sat leering and drooling at eachother when brenda and gemma stand giggling and wiggling in thier tight skirts in front of them in the canteen....which is right which is wrong?...what side does this lad stand on...he does come across a little sleezy in his actions imo.

[Brillopad]

The majority of people don't feel that way now.

They do.

[thesheriff443]

When it involves peoples health and even saving peoples lives its kind of important we take work life seriously.

You are complaining about his personality not his ability to do his job.

[user104658]

But PC has gone too far, the majority of people feel that way now.In SOME specific cases and on some issues it has gone a bit over the top, that doesn't mean people want to "throw the baby out with the bathwater" and reverse ALL of it to make homophobia etc. acceptable again. It's not "all or nothing"... You can't just say "Oh it's gone too far now, so we should just have NONE!"

Like... An obese person doesn't say "Oh my food intake has gone too far, I just won't eat at all now."

I mean, some do, but they end up very unwell don't they.

[user104658]

You are complaining about his personality not his ability to do his job.I agree with that to be fair; if it's not affecting his work or anyone else's work then it's not really an issue at all... People "not being too keen on it" isn't really a good enough reason to tell someone to tone themselves down.

If it does affect productivity in some way then it's fair enough to say something on those grounds, so long as it's explained how / why it affects the company.

[Marsh.]

They do.

Prove it.

[Marsh.]

The point of the thread is that its making people feel uncomfortable.

No sh*t Sherlock.

My point is that some people not being comfortable or keen on it doesn't automatically make his behaviour unacceptable.

Personality clashes happen all the time doesn't mean anyone is breaking code of conduct or crossing the line.

However, in this case, it seems to be more than one particular thing so it's hard to judge without seeing for ourselves really.

[DemolitionRed]

You are complaining about his personality not his ability to do his job.

No, I'm complaining about his personality hampering other peoples ability to do their job.

[Tom4784]

They do.

Based on what exactly? Not everyone in the world thinks like you do.

The world is becoming more inclusive, not less.

[Cherie]

No it's not, it's saying in an exaggerated and comical way "I find this person attractive"... like most forms of flirting.

It's probably OTT and unnecessary in the workplace, but it's no different to other flirting.

If a female feigned fainting when a male walked in, would you find that acceptable :umm2: it's a work place not the local am dram society

I worry for anyone who is in a professional environment who feels that is acceptable :laugh:

[Cherie]

You are complaining about his personality not his ability to do his job.

No DM is saying his actions are unprofessional which seems to be the case

[Marsh.]

If a female feigned fainting when a male walked in, would you find that acceptable :umm2: it's a work place not the local am dram society

I worry for anyone who is in a professional environment who feels that is acceptable :laugh:

Well, as I said, unless he's literally throwing himself down on the floor and causing a scene that embarrasses someone I don't see how it's an issue.
It sounds like a daft hand to the head or something when someone good looking is around.

In the OP he states there's lots of banter and "flirting". I would put this in the same bracket as "banter and flirting" unless he's actively pestering someone in particular/intruding their personal space/being overtly graphic or sexual.

As it is, I don't see why it should be classed as an "inappropriate sexual manner" and other flirting is not.

But, as I also said, if it goes beyond those kind of instances (which it sounds like) then it's a problem.

[Brillopad]

Based on what exactly? Not everyone in the world thinks like you do.

The world is becoming more inclusive, not less.

Not more inclusive of PC madness such as any man having the right to self-identify as a woman and freely use the female bathrooms over and above the right of actual women born women having the right to object.

Apart from anything else there is a clear safety issue there which is conveniently being overlooked in all the PC madness and so-called inclusiveness. Inclusive does not mean giving certain groups special treatment and making excuses for them as you seem to have done in this thread.

PC will eventually hang itself with its constant demands because it just keeps pushing and pushing to ridiculous extremes. Give them an inch and they take a mile.

[DemolitionRed]

Not more inclusive of PC madness such as any man having the right to self-identify as a woman and freely use the female bathrooms over and above the right of actual women born women having the right to object.

Apart from anything else there is a clear safety issue there which is conveniently being overlooked in all the PC madness and so-called inclusiveness.

PC will eventually hang itself with its constant demands because it just keeps pushing and pushing to ridiculous extremes. Give them an inch and they take a mile.

On the other hand it will be judged by some, as it has been on here, to be overly PC to make a thing of this. Some say we should ignore it... its just a bit of fun!

It of course will be dealt with but how its dealt with was my question. I don't want this guy to get sacked. Hell, I don't even want him to get a written warning (though some of the team want him gone) because when he puts his mind to it, he's good at his job and could be a real asset to the team. I believe there are better and more subtle ways to get this guy to consider and think about his actions than going at him with a bulldozer. PC in a case like this helps everyone because it better resolves things. If it doesn't, thats another matter.

[thesheriff443]

Sounds like the team are talking about him behind his back instead of having a word to his face.
Which is worse overly camp or bitching behind his back!

[Cherie]

I don't know how this is relatable to PC, he should be treated in the same way as any other colleague and if he is overstepping professional boundaries then he needs to be told, how he is told will be down to his actions if an email is sent to all in the first instance and he doesn't address his unacceptable behaviour then he needs hauling in on a one to one