EU Withdrawal bill amendment succeeds, 309 to 305 votes

[Shaun]

The government has been narrowly defeated in a key vote on its Brexit bill after a rebellion by Tory MPs.

In a blow to Prime Minister Theresa May, MPs voted to give Parliament a legal guarantee of a vote on the final Brexit deal struck with Brussels.

The government had argued this would jeopardise its chances of delivering a smooth Brexit.

The amendment to the EU Withdrawal Bill tabled by ex-Attorney General Dominic Grieve was backed by 309 to 305.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-42346192

[arista]

Waste of time.
We are still going out in 2019 March.

[smudgie]

If they waste time I would imagine we would leave with a hard Brexit.
Can't wait until it's done and sorted one way or another.
Roll on March 2019.

[Kizzy]

Excellent news, at last something democratic about brexit!

[arista]

If they waste time I would imagine we would leave with a hard Brexit.
Can't wait until it's done and sorted one way or another.
Roll on March 2019.


Yes
the PM is on her way to the EU Summit.

4 votes
will not change this

Ref : 2 MP's on Ch4HD news and SkyNewsHD,

[joeysteele]

A good result, common sense.
Well done to the Con MPs and indeed all other Parties MPs too,who refused to allow parliament to just be taken for granted and for fools.

[Wizard.]

Excellent news, at last something democratic about brexit!

What are you on about? The referendum was democratic

[Brillopad]

Excellent news, at last something democratic about brexit!

What’s democratic is we are leaving as per the referendum result. If those constantly trying to intervere in a desperate attempt to overturn the original result continue we will end up with a hard Brexit: which will probaly be better than the soft mess the remoaners are after.

[Brillopad]

What are you on about? The referendum was democratic

The hardline left think something is only democratic when they say so.

[Brillopad]

A good result, common sense.
Well done to the Con MPs and indeed all other Parties MPs too,who refused to allow parliament to just be taken for granted and for fools.

Say hello to the resulting hard Brexit then. :hehe:

[Wizard.]

Yeah let Jeremy Corbyn lead a vote of no deal on the Brexit deal then we have to leave on no trade terms business go bust the economy goes into recession and we FINALLY get rid of the old bastard!

[Kizzy]

The hardline left think something is only democratic when they say so.

Hard line left?....Not a concerned citizen with genuine concerns?
No you have to make my critique appear as an irrational outburst.... have you ever thought of a career as a tabloid journalist? You're a natural :laugh:

The referendum was based on a lie, a lie that the NHS would be fully funded, it most certainly is not.
Many should feel duped, as you most certainly were on that.

[Kizzy]

Yeah let Jeremy Corbyn lead a vote of no deal on the Brexit deal then we have to leave on no trade terms business go bust the economy goes into recession and we FINALLY get rid of the old bastard!

Ooof! hark at the language on here... Lowers the tone doesn't it brillo?

[Kizzy]

Well well well...dare to defy the autocracy?...

Tory MP Stephen Hammond has been sacked as vice-chairman of the Conservative Party after he rebelled against the Government on a key Brexit vote.

Put a claim in for unfair dismissal :idc:
surely all the rebels will be going?


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/stephen-hammond-fired-sacked-brexit-rebellion-tory-mp-theresa-may-latest-a8108691.html

[Brillopad]

Hard line left?....Not a concerned citizen with genuine concerns?
No you have to make my critique appear as an irrational outburst.... have you ever thought of a career as a tabloid journalist? You're a natural :laugh:

The referendum was based on a lie, a lie that the NHS would be fully funded, it most certainly is not.
Many should feel duped, as you most certainly were on that.

So the remoaners keep telling us. If anyone is being duped it’s Corbyn’s followers. He changes his mind at every turn to suit.

[Brillopad]

Hard line left?....Not a concerned citizen with genuine concerns?
No you have to make my critique appear as an irrational outburst.... have you ever thought of a career as a tabloid journalist? You're a natural :laugh:

The referendum was based on a lie, a lie that the NHS would be fully funded, it most certainly is not.
Many should feel duped, as you most certainly were on that.

From one concerned citizen to another. You don’t have the monopoly on concern - just different concerns.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Excellent news, at last something democratic about brexit!

:facepalm:

[Kizzy]

So the remoaners keep telling us. If anyone is being duped it’s Corbyn’s followers. He changes his mind at every turn to suit.

Who is pro remain?... We voted out so let's leave, I'm ok with it are you ok with being lied to and having your rights and protections as an, employee, consumer and human removed?

Changing his mind on what... the brexit that means 'brexit' the impact of which is unknown because nobody bothered to check?! :joker:

[Shaun]

It's almost as if 'Brexit' was a complex process that would require more than one 52% referendum, before any of its consequences played out, to proceed with :think:

[Brillopad]

Who is pro remain?... We voted out so let's leave, I'm ok with it are you ok with being lied to and having your rights and protections as an, employee, consumer and human removed?

Changing his mind on what... the brexit that means 'brexit' the impact of which is unknown because nobody bothered to check?! :joker:

Scaremongering. No ones having their rights removed - it’s all speculation.

[Crimson Dynamo]

It's almost as if 'Brexit' was a complex process that would require more than one 52% referendum, before any of its consequences played out, to proceed with :think:

yes and its almost like hindsight suddenly is available as an app..


:idc:

[Shaun]

No it's just available as Parliamentary process! Sorry you hate democracy!

[Crimson Dynamo]

No it's just available as Parliamentary process! Sorry you hate democracy!

i dont hate it and i dont hate it when it goes against my opinion either

[Brillopad]

No it's just available as Parliamentary process! Sorry you hate democracy!

Twist away - but we all know who the ones flouting democracy are. The ones who have continuously stamped their size 10s since June 16.

[DemolitionRed]

Yes
the PM is on her way to the EU Summit.

4 votes
will not change this

Ref : 2 MP's on Ch4HD news and SkyNewsHD,

Oh but it might. May may arrive at the EU summit to be told that she can't negotiate for a position of power because she has no authority. Its a bit like a company going in to make a big deal, they need to sit down with the man who has the authority to make that deal and not the salesman.

May at this present time, is only the salesman

[Kizzy]

Scaremongering. No ones having their rights removed - it’s all speculation.

And you don't speculate.... Would you like me to compile a nice list of all your prior speculation?

[Scarlett.]

What are you on about? The referendum was democratic

and so is the elected MPs of Parliament having a say in Brexit :shrug: It's not one or the other.

[Withano]

That's logical. Dunno why its only some of the righties having an issue with this, why do they hate democracy?

[user104658]

i dont hate it and i dont hate it when it goes against my opinion eitherYou don't seem to like it much either, though. This vote failed for the tories because a sufficient number of democratically elected MPs - voted for by the public just as the referendum was, and so representatives of the public - didn't think it was the right thing for the country and voted against it.

But you don't seem too happy about that... Because it goes against your opinion? :shrug:

[Livia]

Isn't it strange how people play at politics to suit their agenda? Even if it means cutting of their nose to spite their face? We may get a sh1t deal but Oh! Jeremy Corbyn...

[user104658]

Isn't it strange how people play at politics to suit their agenda? Even if it means cutting of their nose to spite their face? We may get a sh1t deal but Oh! Jeremy Corbyn...

What does any of it have to do with Jeremy Corbyn, specifically? The vote only failed for the Tories because a number of Tory MPs (rightly, and in the spirit of democracy, in my opinion) refused to toe the Tory line. I doubt they did it because they want to suck Corbyn's dick :think:.

[Livia]

What does any of it have to do with Jeremy Corbyn, specifically? The vote only failed for the Tories because a number of Tory MPs (rightly, and in the spirit of democracy, in my opinion) refused to toe the Tory line. I doubt they did it because they want to suck Corbyn's dick :think:.

This thread isn't about dick sucking, is it? I'm referring to the avid Corbyn supporters who thinks he's the next coming. It's amusing...

[user104658]

This thread isn't about dick sucking, is it? I'm referring to the avid Corbyn supporters who thinks he's the next coming. It's amusing...

But this thread has nothing to do with Corbyn, and Corbyn wasn't brought into it by Corbyn supporters? In fact most of the Corbyn posts are from people saying "Corbyn is rubbish!!". On a thread about the EU withdrawal bill. :think:

EU Withdrawal bill ShmEU Schwithdrawal schbill ... I DON'T LIKE PRAWNS. Discuss.

[Tom4784]

Imagine still using the term 'remoaner' one year AFTER the referendum. Living in the past much? Preferable to facing up to the realities of Brexit?

[Tom4784]

Jeremy Corbyn only gets brought up by his haters these days, again, like I said in my previous post, probably because it's easier for people to get mad about him then it is to face up to the reality of what they voted for.

[Livia]

That's logical. Dunno why its only some of the righties having an issue with this, why do they hate democracy?

MPs are there to represent the feelings of their constituents. More constituents voted to leave than voted to stay in a democratic referendum. Therefore anything that now halts or undermines that process is undemocratic.

[Livia]

Jeremy Corbyn only gets brought up by his haters these days, again, like I said in my previous post, probably because it's easier for people to get mad about him then it is to face up to the reality of what they voted for.

I can't get past his support for terrorists, his lack of action on the anti-Semitic tendencies of his own party and that fact that he has a Marxist for a Shadow Chancellor. Labour needs to be strong and it needed a BIG boost after Blair and Brown. But Corbyn is a Bridge Too Far and will bring more harm than good. Similarly, the Tories desperately need to sort themselves into some semblance of order. It scares me that May and Corbyn are, at present, our only two options. They're at opposite ends of the ridiculousness scale. One will do just about anything for a smooth Brexit and one will do just about anything to scupper that. All very worrying...

[Tom4784]

I can't get past his support for terrorists, his lack of action on the anti-Semitic tendencies of his own party and that fact that he has a Marxist for a Shadow Chancellor. Labour needs to be strong and it needed a BIG boost after Blair and Brown. But Corbyn is a Bridge Too Far and will bring more harm than good. Similarly, the Tories desperately need to sort themselves into some semblance of order. It scares me that May and Corbyn are, at present, our only two options. They're at opposite ends of the ridiculousness scale. One will do just about anything for a smooth Brexit and one will do just about anything to scupper that. All very worrying...

Meh, if that's a common opinion then it's people's fault for choosing to undertake a precarious brexit when none of the leadership options are well suited for it.

Whatever happens, people had the opportunity to vote on Brexit and who would lead it, if people don't get the Brexit they want then it's on their heads for poor choices.

[Livia]

Meh, if that's a common opinion then it's people's fault for choosing to undertake a precarious brexit when none of the leadership options are well suited for it.

Whatever happens, people had the opportunity to vote on Brexit and who would lead it, if people don't get the Brexit they want then it's on their heads for poor choices.

We're tied to Brexit now though, I'd like to see us get the best deal we can without the rest of Europe watching our politicians have this stupid, embarrassing, childish bun-fight. If there was a general election in the Spring - and let's face it, it could well happen - who would I vote for? I don't recognise any party now that I would support.

[Northern Monkey]

Looking at what this actually means.Not a great deal I don’t think other than slightly weakening the PM’s position in the negotiations.
May had already promised a ‘meaningful vote’ on the deal.
If as they claim,Tory remainers actually want a good deal then it’s kind of just a self defeating excercise.
It does smack of just another attempt to throw a spanner in the works to eventually find some way to stop Brexit.
See how they vote on the next one regarding our leaving date.That will be telling.

[joeysteele]

Jeremy Corbyn only gets brought up by his haters these days, again, like I said in my previous post, probably because it's easier for people to get mad about him then it is to face up to the reality of what they voted for.

The people who irrationally,in my view,hate Corbyn actually much more than likely fear any chance of any new election.

Because they underestimated him,saw him as a joke thought few would be attracted to voting for him.
They solidly supported incompetent Mrs May,when she called an election,laughing at Labour and saying Labour was finished under him.

They got a massive shock in June and know in an election now their heartless govt.would be turfed out.
Not necessarily by a majority Labour govt.but Labour would likely win most seats and other Parties,except for Con poodles DUP,would ensure this cruel set of Con ministers were well and truly out of power.

The Corbyn haters,hated Miliband too,it's just a vicious circle.

This vote last night was a Conservative MP's amendment, supported by all just about,of other elected MPs and parties,except the extreme DUP.
This was a start to proper democracy,holding a bad govt.a bad PM too who seems incapable of genuinely listening to others, to account at last.

[bots]

i have no problem with a government being defeated in a vote, in fact I wish it was a more common occurrence. Really doesnt matter who votes for it or against it, just that things are not forced through because they think they can get away with it, and I apply this to any government that is in power

[Kizzy]

This thread isn't about dick sucking, is it? I'm referring to the avid Corbyn supporters who thinks he's the next coming. It's amusing...

This thread isn't about Corbyn supporters either, it's about parliamentary democracy.

That's what I'm supporting.
Whether we get a good deal will be decided by parliament....not the government I'm very happy with that.

[Livia]

The people who irrationally,in my view,hate Corbyn actually much more than likely fear any chance of any new election.

Because they underestimated him,saw him as a joke thought few would be attracted to voting for him.
They solidly supported incompetent Mrs May,when she called an election,laughing at Labour and saying Labour was finished under him.

They got a massive shock in June and know in an election now their heartless govt.would be turfed out.
Not necessarily by a majority Labour govt.but Labour would likely win most seats and other Parties,except for Con poodles DUP,would ensure this cruel set of Con ministers were well and truly out of power.

The Corbyn haters,hated Miliband too,it's just a vicious circle.

This vote last night was a Conservative MP's amendment, supported by all just about,of other elected MPs and parties,except the extreme DUP.
This was a start to proper democracy,holding a bad govt.a bad PM too who seems incapable of genuinely listening to others, to account at last.

Some of us can bring to mind his past, joey. He is friends with terrorist, he supported the IRA... you can't wipe that stuff out. And no one will say what they think will happen when we have a Marxist as a Chancellor.

Corbyn was a convenient protest vote but I think most people are intelligent enough to know he'd be a terrible leader for this country.

May is making some monumental mistakes. Her most avid supporters will admit that (not that I am one of them). But it seems that Corbyn can do no wrong in the eyes of his blinkered, star-struck followers.

[joeysteele]

Some of us can bring to mind his past, joey. He is friends with terrorist, he supported the IRA... you can't wipe that stuff out. And no one will say what they think will happen when we have a Marxist as a Chancellor.

Corbyn was a convenient protest vote but I think most people are intelligent enough to know he'd be a terrible leader for this country.

May is making some monumental mistakes. Her most avid supporters will admit that (not that I am one of them). But it seems that Corbyn can do no wrong in the eyes of his blinkered, star-struck followers.

I don't agree with all your assessment of Corbyn.
Although he was never my choice of leader.

I think among voters,this disunited UK whether that be over the EU, the referendum or now politics in general.
Has a clear split that never mind the EU issue,will be difficult to combat.

It would appear older voters,,still lean Conservative.
Younger voters and the newer intake of voters lean rather strongly to Labour but under Corbyn.
I was talking to some new voters,just turned 18 this year a short while back, they admire and are the strongest I've come across as to him,outside those in Labour.
They seem determined just not to entertain the Conservatives at all.

While I'm pleased to see Labour holding onto and gaining momentum.
It equally is concerning in an already fractured UK,to see a PM and governing at present party virtually seen to be unable to really connect with the future set of voters coming in.

You have been consistent in your dislike of Corbyn, I appreciate that and as you know,I have never in all my time on here ever liked Mrs May,either as Home Secretary or PM.

What happened last night on this vote was even some of her own MPs felt she and the cabinet,were trying to scupper parliament and were not really listening to/considering their concerns on Brexit.
If voters seeing that,then take that on board, the Conservatives are I think in deep trouble in an election.
Which I think could still end up happening sooner than 2022.

Always good to discuss politics with you Livia.

[Withano]

MPs are there to represent the feelings of their constituents. More constituents voted to leave than voted to stay in a democratic referendum. Therefore anything that now halts or undermines that process is undemocratic.

Tbf, people voted leave under the belief that it would work out well, and it might. If it doesnt seem to look too good though, a final vote would be a good way to keep everybody happy. Apart from the stubborn leavers who want to leave even if it means instant death. But like they're just silly and nobody cares about them.

[bots]

I don't agree with all your assessment of Corbyn.
Although he was never my choice of leader.

I think among voters,this disunited UK whether that be over the EU, the referendum or now politics in general.
Has a clear split that never mind the EU issue,will be difficult to combat.

It would appear older voters,,still lean Conservative.
Younger voters and the newer intake of voters lean rather strongly to Labour but under Corbyn.
I was talking to some new voters,just turned 18 this year a short while back, they admire and are the strongest I've come across as to him,outside those in Labour.
They seem determined just not to entertain the Conservatives at all.

While I'm pleased to see Labour holding onto and gaining momentum.
It equally is concerning in an already fractured UK,to see a PM and governing at present party virtually seen to be unable to really connect with the future set of voters coming in.

You have been consistent in your dislike of Corbyn, I appreciate that and as you know,I have never in all my time on here ever liked Mrs May,either as Home Secretary or PM.

What happened last night on this vote was even some of her own MPs felt she and the cabinet,were trying to scupper parliament and were not really listening to/considering their concerns on Brexit.
If voters seeing that,then take that on board, the Conservatives are I think in deep trouble in an election.
Which I think could still end up happening sooner than 2022.

Always good to discuss politics with you Livia.

Great use of the word :laugh:


Young people have always traditionally been more left leaning than others, so nothings changed there. There has always been very strong polarisation of opinion. Think Callaghan, Wilson, Heath, Thatcher, They invoked very strong passionate feelings.

I don't think its so much about the person specifically, there will just come a point where the public say, we want a change, and if someone like Corbyn happens to be the leader at the time, the people will pick him.

My view is that people really wanted a change at the last election, but Corbyn was so far left field with a known history that people at that point just couldn't vote for him. Someone more moderate, and labour would have had a landslide. I can't predict if that position will have changed come the next election, and as Corbyn is no spring chicken, will he even be leader then ... who knows.

[Brillopad]

Imagine still using the term 'remoaner' one year AFTER the referendum. Living in the past much? Preferable to facing up to the realities of Brexit?

Relentless remoaners!

[joeysteele]

Great use of the word :laugh:


Young people have always traditionally been more left leaning than others, so nothings changed there. There has always been very strong polarisation of opinion. Think Callaghan, Wilson, Heath, Thatcher, They invoked very strong passionate feelings.

I don't think its so much about the person specifically, there will just come a point where the public say, we want a change, and if someone like Corbyn happens to be the leader at the time, the people will pick him.

My view is that people really wanted a change at the last election, but Corbyn was so far left field with a known history that people at that point just couldn't vote for him. Someone more moderate, and labour would have had a landslide. I can't predict if that position will have changed come the next election, and as Corbyn is no spring chicken, will he even be leader then ... who knows.

I don't really think age should be a factor.
Being fit is more important.

It is incredible that the elder leader of a party by far,namely Corbyn is the one connecting with and attracting younger voters,reaching voting age.

Really, over 20% ahead in the polls in late May for the end result to be Conservatives under 3% ahead on polling day is remarkable.
I don't think any party will get landslides again and I hope the UK will through shared govt.come to full PR in hopefully the near future.

You know just around 15 more seats to Labour would have seen a minority Labour govt,supported by the large anti Con votes from near all other Parties other than the DUP.

I think it's now actually the far left policies of Corbyn which are now more in tune with newer voters.

Age however, not an issue for me,Blair,Cameron were younger and we're not that good really.
After all,different times bit really challenging ones, saw Churchill leading the UK through the war in his 60s,70 when it ended.
Then winning power in his mid 70s going on until near 80 as PM.

No,age itself, in my view is not and should not be an issue as to leading a party or becoming PM.
You didn't say it was either.

I still have a feeling an election will come sooner than is thought at present anyway.

[Tom4784]

Relentless remoaners!

Don't make me spoil the rest of 2016 for you.

[DemolitionRed]

Some of us can bring to mind his past, joey. He is friends with terrorist, he supported the IRA... you can't wipe that stuff out. And no one will say what they think will happen when we have a Marxist as a Chancellor.

Corbyn was a convenient protest vote but I think most people are intelligent enough to know he'd be a terrible leader for this country.

May is making some monumental mistakes. Her most avid supporters will admit that (not that I am one of them). But it seems that Corbyn can do no wrong in the eyes of his blinkered, star-struck followers.

Anyone inteligent enough to understand Corbyn policies will be aware of his lack of interest in Marx. He's admittedly never even read the Communist Manifesto.

He's just a man who plans to renationalise the railways, the Royal Mail, water and energy system but he has no plans to abolish private property or nationalize big business. He wants to invest in infrastructure which will stimulate growth, improve productivity and raise living standards. That doesn't make him a communist as you wrongly suggest, it doesn't make him a socialist; it makes him a post-war Keynesian.