Intimate female examinations undertaken by self-identified trans sexuals

[Brillopad]

https://inews.co.uk/news/health/nhs-woman-transgender-nurse-smear-test/

I am so shocked by this and feel it is completely unaccepatable for a self-identified transsexual to attempt an intimate smear test on a woman who had requested a female nurse to perform the examination.

Women should always have the right to object without being or feeling labelled. The poor woman had to cancel what is already a traumatic exam in itself without the added pressure of being put is such a position. This is likely to reduce the uptake of cervical cancer monitoring by many women due to such appalling treatment. Shame on the NHS.

It is not the responsibility of women to endure such intrusion in order to validate someone else’s identity.

[Smithy]

It is understood the nurse self-identified as a woman but had not been employed on that basis. She saw the patient only because of a clerical error.


Not really a story then is it

[waterhog]

very tricky and I feel for both of them - nurse and patient but the patient must always come first and I feel the nure may need to think of changing duty to a less intrusive threating job as the patient has always got to come first.

[Brillopad]

Not really a story then is it

An expected response in my opinion, true or not.

This incident demonstrates how ridiculous a policy of allowing men to self-identify as women is. In the current climate it could well lead to this becoming a common situation. It is a minefield. You don’t give one group ‘rights’ by trampelling over the rights of another group. I believe someone tried it on.

[Tom4784]

I agree with everyone else that this is ultimately a non-story and the intentions to make this nurse seem like some sort of predator is clear but when it comes to Transgender people I don't think they should be classed as their intended gender until they actually transition.

[Beso]

It does raise an interesting possible issue worth dabating imo.

[Beso]

1 question? Can you request a dr who is a man but identifies as a woman exams your bits?

[Smithy]

1 question? Can you request a dr who is a man but identifies as a woman exams your bits?

Then you would be asking for a female doctor...

[Beso]

Then you would be asking for a female doctor...

What if i dont class myself as any sex?

[Smithy]

What if i dont class myself as any sex?

Class yourself as what you want, you’re not a dr

[Beso]

Class yourself as what you want, you’re not a dr

So can i de class myself sexually by law then walk in and request a female dr who identifies as a man examine my danglers? Or the other way around for coughs and minor ailments.

[Smithy]

So can i de class myself sexually by law then walk in and request a female dr who identifies as a man examine my danglers? Or the other way around for coughs and minor ailments.

Drs are professionals, I’m sure they deal with all kinds of perverts, so, like I said, do what you want

[Beso]

Drs are professionals, I’m sure they deal with all kinds of perverts, so, like I said, do what you want

What if my drs a pervert?...do i not get a look in?.can they do what they want?..mr hostile!

[smudgie]

Rules should be in place, then the so called clerical error couldn't or shouldn't happen.
Unless you are a fully transitioned nurse or doctor then you shouldn't be allowed to do the smear tests. If then you find you have been asked to as a clerical error you can stop it going any further and sort the clerical error out.
Smears can be embarrassing for lots of ladies, especially younger ones, everything that can be done should be done to help make them feel at ease.

[user104658]

Meh. Personally, I think in a health care setting gender should be irrelevant anyway... The people carrying out the procedures are professionals and that's all that should matter.

When I got the snip I was lay with all my junk on display (inside and out, haha) for a good 20 mins. 5 other people in the room - 1 male surgeon, 3 female nurses, and a female student nurse. The only thing I was given a choice on was whether or not it was OK for the student to be there... No one asked me if I minded a female nurse slathering my balls in iodine solution :shrug:. Honestly it was the last thing on my mind at the time!

[Jamie89]

I imagine this would have also been a very humiliating experience for the nurse, she didn't actually do anything wrong and it should be noted that she's doing an important job that helps and potentially saves the lives of a lot of women, she isn't a pervert to be afraid of. I imagine the patient understands that and wouldn't have wanted to cause her any more distress considering she didn't want her named. But yes she felt uncomforatable and made a complaint and the error was corrected, so this was sorted without hassle? So I do struggle a bit to see the big problem in all of this? Unless the suggestion is that transexual people shouldn't be allowed to become nurses in the first place?
Personally I think in an ideal world something like sex/gender wouldn't matter when it comes to medical issues because a medical professional is just that, and is doing a job to help their patient.

[Brillopad]

I imagine this would have also been a very humiliating experience for the nurse, she didn't actually do anything wrong and it should be noted that she's doing an important job that helps and potentially saves the lives of a lot of women, she isn't a pervert to be afraid of. I imagine the patient understands that and wouldn't have wanted to cause her any more distress considering she didn't want her named. But yes she felt uncomforatable and made a complaint and the error was corrected, so this was sorted without hassle? So I do struggle a bit to see the big problem in all of this? Unless the suggestion is that transexual people shouldn't be allowed to become nurses in the first place?
Personally I think in an ideal world something like sex/gender wouldn't matter when it comes to medical issues because a medical professional is just that, and is doing a job to help their patient.

Many women find this procedure very intrusive and hate having it done. Many delay getting it done as a result. It will only serve to put women off getting it done at all as many women only want it done by female nurses. If some don’t mind that’s fine but no-one has the right to force the added tarauma of having it done by a man onto others?

Maybe if a self-identified transgender nurse can’t understand that he can’t really know what it’s like to be a woman and how such procedures can make many women feel.

[Jamie89]

Many women find this procedure very intrusive and hate having it done. Many delay getting it done as a result. It will only serve to put women off getting it done at all as many women only want it done by female nurses. If some don’t mind that’s fine but no-one has the right to force the added tarauma of having it done by a man onto others?

Maybe if a self-identified transgender nurse can’t understand that he can’t really know what it’s like to be a woman and how such procedures can make many women feel.

The nurse didn't do anything wrong here though? And noone tried to force the patient into having it done by someone she wasn't comfortable around? It was a clerical error that was corrected as soon as the patient complained, wasn't it? As far as the nurse is concerned she was just doing her job, her intent was to help the patient, I'm not sure why there is any animosity towards her.

[user104658]

I'm not sure why there is any animosity towards her.

Default mode is default.

[waterhog]

The nurse didn't do anything wrong here though? And noone tried to force the patient into having it done by someone she wasn't comfortable around? It was a clerical error that was corrected as soon as the patient complained, wasn't it? As far as the nurse is concerned she was just doing her job, her intent was to help the patient, I'm not sure why there is any animosity towards her.

very understanding Jamie - I like

[Beso]

Default mode is default.

If everyone was as gullible as you try and make them out to be...

Im with you and brillo, there is no real story here...but for a debate..
Imagine if jimmy saville was a doctor.

[Brillopad]

The nurse didn't do anything wrong here though? And noone tried to force the patient into having it done by someone she wasn't comfortable around? It was a clerical error that was corrected as soon as the patient complained, wasn't it? As far as the nurse is concerned she was just doing her job, her intent was to help the patient, I'm not sure why there is any animosity towards her.

No-one has said the nurse did anything wrong although he was criticised by the NHS for mis-management of the situation by stating he was not a male which the woman herself found odd.

What will happen though if and when self-identification of transgender women becomes enshrined in our laws? Will that limit choice in such situations or will anyone who expresses a preference be labelled or feel labelled? It does effectively prioritise the feelings of a minority over the majority. And it will lead to health consequences as many will fail to have such tests wihich will cost more money for the NHS if they develop cancer and require aggressive treatment.

[Tom4784]

If everyone was as gullible as you try and make them out to be...

Im with you and brillo, there is no real story here...but for a debate..
Imagine if jimmy saville was a doctor.

So you're equating trans people with peadophiles.

[Beso]

Meh. Personally, I think in a health care setting gender should be irrelevant anyway... The people carrying out the procedures are professionals and that's all that should matter.

When I got the snip I was lay with all my junk on display (inside and out, haha) for a good 20 mins. 5 other people in the room - 1 male surgeon, 3 female nurses, and a female student nurse. The only thing I was given a choice on was whether or not it was OK for the student to be there... No one asked me if I minded a female nurse slathering my balls in iodine solution :shrug:. Honestly it was the last thing on my mind at the time!

Jesus ****..my nuts and all the wiring just shrivelled like a milkmans hopes as he realises his milk round tips just aint going to make it.



YOU WERE AWAKE...WTHEF?

[Beso]

So you're equating trans people with peadophiles.

No, like in march, april, august...im saying paedophiles can see an in....ya get me now?


Yer last chance btw!

[Brillopad]

If everyone was as gullible as you try and make them out to be...

Im with you and brillo, there is no real story here...but for a debate..
Imagine if jimmy saville was a doctor.

And what’s frightening, particularly with all the allegations of male assaults on women and young girls of late, is that there are a lot of Savills out there. Any man could just claim to feel like a woman and gain access to female changing rooms and other areas and vulnerable women such as young girls. Commonsense has flown the coup with complete abandonment.

[Tom4784]

No-one has said the nurse did anything wrong although he was criticised by the NHS for mis-management of the situation by stating he was not a male which the woman herself found odd.

What will happen though if and when self-identification of transgender women becomes enshrined in our laws? Will that limit choice in such situations or will anyone who expresses a preference be labelled or feel labelled? It does effectively prioritise the feelings of a minority over the majority. And it will lead to health consequences as many will fail to have such tests wihich will cost more money for the NHS if they develop cancer and require aggressive treatment.

When I had my cancer scare, I didn't care whether or not the doctor handling my bits was a man or woman or anything in between, I just wanted to know whether I had cancer or not. I imagine when faced with the prospect of Cancer, most people would ultimately feel the same way.

Self certification, as much as I disagree with it, won't affect the preferences of patients. If a female patient wants a woman to do the smear test then a woman will do the smear, this was just a clerical mistake that was corrected.

Your last sentence just made me laugh, we've gone from blaming immigrants and the EU costing the NHS money to blamings Trans nurses and doctors :joker: What next, Single mothers?

[bots]

what would have been the reaction if a male doctor had been assigned through a clerical error? I suggest it would have been dealt with in a civilised way without any drama. So, my question is why is this treated any differently?

In large organisations, mistakes happen

[Tom4784]

No, like in march, april, august...im saying paedophiles can see an in....ya get me now?


Yer last chance btw!

That's such a silly generalist argument that could apply to ANYTHING and nothing.

The idea that a peado would somehow get themselves certified as a trans woman just to molest people is so silly and to use such a ridiculously rare if not non existent argument in a debate is just pointless. Whether you intended to or not (I'm leaning towards the former) you equated trans people to peadophiles.

[Beso]

And what’s frightening, particularly with all the allegations of male assaults on women and young girls of late, is that there are a lot of Savills out there. Any man could just claim to feel like a woman and gain access to female changing rooms and other areas and vulnerable women such as young girls. Commonsense has flown the coup with complete abandonment.



Spot on brillo...and couple what you say with the pressure a government must feel to tick the boxes of minority whateverers...they, the paedos have the loophole...


And people moan if conservative dont tick those boxes, god help us if numbnuts gets in....cause i hope im asleep for that.

[Tom4784]

And what’s frightening, particularly with all the allegations of male assaults on women and young girls of late, is that there are a lot of Savills out there. Any man could just claim to feel like a woman and gain access to female changing rooms and other areas and vulnerable women such as young girls. Commonsense has flown the coup with complete abandonment.

Except that's not going to happen. It's just irrational to think that could become the norm and it's harmful as you are basically suggesting that trans people are more likely to sexually abuse someone because they might only be claiming to be trans just for some pretend idea that it means they can get away with molesting people.

[Beso]

That's such a silly generalist argument that could apply to ANYTHING and nothing.

The idea that a peado would somehow get themselves certified as a trans woman just to molest people is so silly and to use such a ridiculously rare if not non existent argument in a debate is just pointless. Whether you intended to or not (I'm leaning towards the former) you equated trans people to peadophiles.


"Certified"as a transwoman.

[Tom4784]

"Certified"as a transwoman.

Congrats, you know how to use speech marks, got anything to add to the topic or?

[Kazanne]

Rules should be in place, then the so called clerical error couldn't or shouldn't happen.
Unless you are a fully transitioned nurse or doctor then you shouldn't be allowed to do the smear tests. If then you find you have been asked to as a clerical error you can stop it going any further and sort the clerical error out.
Smears can be embarrassing for lots of ladies, especially younger ones, everything that can be done should be done to help make them feel at ease.

Perfectly put Smudgie :wavey:

[Beso]

That's such a silly generalist argument that could apply to ANYTHING and nothing.

The idea that a peado would somehow get themselves certified as a trans woman just to molest people is so silly and to use such a ridiculously rare if not non existent argument in a debate is just pointless. Whether you intended to or not (I'm leaning towards the former) you equated trans people to peadophiles.

Even though ive demonstrated in london against paedos and the establishment along side many sexually confused individuals....dont make me post video evidence cause there will be retaliation evidence needed about your humanness needed.

[Brillopad]

When I had my cancer scare, I didn't care whether or not the doctor handling my bits was a man or woman or anything in between, I just wanted to know whether I had cancer or not. I imagine when faced with the prospect of Cancer, most people would ultimately feel the same way.

Self certification, as much as I disagree with it, won't affect the preferences of patients. If a female patient wants a woman to do the smear test then a woman will do the smear, this was just a clerical mistake that was corrected.

Your last sentence just made me laugh, we've gone from blaming immigrants and the EU costing the NHS money to blamings Trans nurses and doctors :joker: What next, Single mothers?

I have also had a cancer scare in the past and I did care. Women tend to be more private that way. You see it in simple things like changing rooms where men nearly always walk around naked in friont of each other. Women not so much. Men pee in front of each other something women never do. Whether you want to see it or admit it or not there are distinct differences between men and women this way.

Does everyone really have to feel like you to have their feelings and opinions validated?

[Kazanne]

As a woman I always insist on a woman for smear tests,I find them highly embarrassing and IF a guy was to do it I wouldn't have one,simple as that. Not everyone is happy to flaunt their genitals at the drop of a hat.

[user104658]

Jesus ****..my nuts and all the wiring just shrivelled like a milkmans hopes as he realises his milk round tips just aint going to make it.



YOU WERE AWAKE...WTHEF?Yeah, it's done under local anaesthetic :joker:. I wish I could say I didn't feel a thing - but that's not true either, you can feel a sort of pulling / tugging with an ache like being kicked in the nuts, and I personally felt some "sharp" pain when they were stitching up, too.

All while the senior nurse was reassuringly patting my chest and telling me I was doing well for not crying, and the student was asking me about Irish Lotto! Bloody surreal...

[Maru]

I had my first pap smear/catheter at 12 by a male doctor as I was way too intimidated by doctors at that point to ask for anything else. I could tell it was really uncomfortable for him though (and my mom/grandmother was there), but it was a bit surreal.

To add to that, the nurse was screaming at me to relax. I somehow managed to tell her in my own shy 12-yr old to ****... and there I'm thinking "I have a tube embedded in me and it hurts like you would not believe, but you want me to RELAX? Sure Jan". I would've loved to have relaxed, that would've meant the whole thing would be over. But we can't always have nice things.

My point is I can understand wanting to have more control as a patient and not dealing pushy doctors or nurses.

[Maru]

Meh. Personally, I think in a health care setting gender should be irrelevant anyway... The people carrying out the procedures are professionals and that's all that should matter.

When I got the snip I was lay with all my junk on display (inside and out, haha) for a good 20 mins. 5 other people in the room - 1 male surgeon, 3 female nurses, and a female student nurse. The only thing I was given a choice on was whether or not it was OK for the student to be there... No one asked me if I minded a female nurse slathering my balls in iodine solution :shrug:. Honestly it was the last thing on my mind at the time!

I'm not sure which is worse, your story or mine. :laugh:

[Beso]

Yeah, it's done under local anaesthetic :joker:. I wish I could say I didn't feel a thing - but that's not true either, you can feel a sort of pulling / tugging with an ache like being kicked in the nuts, and I personally felt some "sharp" pain when they were stitching up, too.

All while the senior nurse was reassuringly patting my chest and telling me I was doing well for not crying, and the student was asking me about Irish Lotto! Bloody surreal...


Whoa whoa whoa....ah got knocked oot, woke up to toast....mocked by the biggest bitch of an ex wife for walking solemenly up the hospital corridors as i suddenly realised my bollox wern't shaved for fashion.

[Beso]

Checking dates and saville movements

[Jamie89]

No-one has said the nurse did anything wrong although he was criticised by the NHS for mis-management of the situation by stating he was not a male which the woman herself found odd.

What will happen though if and when self-identification of transgender women becomes enshrined in our laws? Will that limit choice in such situations or will anyone who expresses a preference be labelled or feel labelled? It does effectively prioritise the feelings of a minority over the majority. And it will lead to health consequences as many will fail to have such tests wihich will cost more money for the NHS if they develop cancer and require aggressive treatment.

I'm not sure what kind of impact self identification would have, it's all purely hypothetical, but I'd assume that if someone had a preference for a biological woman to carry out the procedure then that would be adhered to regardless of self identification. I'm not sure. But honestly from my own point of view I really do think that with anything medical that gender shouldn't be an issue anyway. Whether it's a nurse/doctor/surgeon, whoever, they're medical professionals doing a job - if a surgeon is operating on you then they're going to see and touch your body, but should all surgeons operating on women also be women? There's nothing sexual or perverted in any of it, but many people do still associate trans with perversion and I think that's the real issue here, I do agree with bots that this wouldn't have even raised an eyebrow had it been a man assigned to do the test rather than a trans person. I think a lot of benefit would come from combating the fears and perceptions of trans people being perverted so women like those you speak of no longer feel uncomfortable. Because what is the alternative? Banning perfectly capable trans people from becoming medical professionals on the basis that they are trans, when these people could be saving lives?

[Brillopad]

Except that's not going to happen. It's just irrational to think that could become the norm and it's harmful as you are basically suggesting that trans people are more likely to sexually abuse someone because they might only be claiming to be trans just for some pretend idea that it means they can get away with molesting people.

Let’s clarify what I actually said shall we, not your interpretation. I did not say trans people were more likely to sexually abuse someone - I said that if any man can simply claim to feel like a woman and is therefore a woman and can have easier access to women and girls, such a policy will be taken advantage of by some men and the real creeps will come out of the woodwork with such an opportunity presented to them.

Aren’t most rapes and other sexual attacks mainly opportunistic in nature.

I’m so reassured that a young guy on an internet site says it will never happen.

[Beso]

And to clarify, niether brillo, nor myself, are paedoes....we do however worry about the paedo slant on things....you all forget the most important skill of being a paedo is deviancy...



Now stop being so wrapped up in individuality ffs....that ended at 23.59 on the 31st of december 1989.....lgbtetcrights.....to me, and my view that the world is run by paedophilles...straights have **** lives too....only we get mocked on jeremy kyle for it...bloody teens with crappy parents who cant undetstand why there sons or daughters fancy the same sex get a whole new chapter and verse written for them.

[user104658]

Whoa whoa whoa....ah got knocked oot, woke up to toast....mocked by the biggest bitch of an ex wife for walking solemenly up the hospital corridors as i suddenly realised my bollox wern't shaved for fashion.How long ago was that?? For me it was like 20 minutes in and out :joker:... I'm lead to believe that that's pretty standard these days. Into a booth, changed into a gown, into the surgical room, lie back, jab jab snip snip (that's one of the worst bits... You can hear the tubes snipping), cup of coffee and a biscuit, clothes back on and **** off.

I think I might have had some mild PTSD for about 6 months afterwards...

[Beso]

Well it was late 90s...nothing medical to say otherwise....


Just me and smirking bitch waving bye bye to me or me peanuts..... left alone with the least cool bag out of 4 blokes who are clutching slightly less gormlessly looking bags less gormessly than me....

Prototypes for the manbag...thats me...explaining away the embarrassment...to my head bowed head shaking mates.

[Beso]

Jab...asleep...toast an hour later........pss dont mock the cup.

[Kizzy]

Ridiculous to make an issue of an error, yes people have a choice but come on these people are professionals!
In an emergency situation or in childbirth for instance does anyone care who treats them?... No, of course not they're there to do a job.

What a horrible prejudiced non story :(

[Beso]

Ridiculous to make an issue of an error, yes people have a choice but come on these people are professionals!
In an emergency situation or in childbirth for instance does anyone care who treats them?... No, of course not they're there to (

I agree.

[Brillopad]

Ridiculous to make an issue of an error, yes people have a choice but come on these people are professionals!
In an emergency situation or in childbirth for instance does anyone care who treats them?... No, of course not they're there to do a job.

What a horrible prejudiced non story :(

It’s no more prejudiced than the other side of the coin, where everyone is supposed to feel the same way and if they don’t they should put up and shut up.

Thankfully people have their own minds and won’t be dictated to by the far-left.

[Kizzy]

It’s no more prejudiced than the other side of the coin, where everyone is supposed to feel the same way and if they don’t they should put up and shut up.

Thankfully people have their own minds and won’t be dictated to by the far-left.

See... this proves my point from another thread, you have no counter to my point so you make ambiguous references to the other side of the coin, what is 'the other side'?

There was no issue, it was a clerical error that has been shown, so why are you suggesting anything has been dictated by the far left?
I agree that peoples wishes should be adhered to where possible and if she had to forgo her treatment that day then that is what must happen.

What is your solution to the emergency situation carry a DNR note in your pocket in case you are injured and the only medical professional available is transgender?...

[Marsh.]

What if i dont class myself as any sex?

Then why would you care either way what sex the doctor is?

[Beso]

Then why would you care either way what sex the doctor is?

I wouldnt, but i would like the choice.:shrug:

[Brillopad]

See... this proves my point from another thread, you have no counter to my point so you make ambiguous references to the other side of the coin, what is 'the other side'?

There was no issue, it was a clerical error that has been shown, so why are you suggesting anything has been dictated by the far left?
I agree that peoples wishes should be adhered to where possible and if she had to forgo her treatment that day then that is what must happen.

What is your solution to the emergency situation carry a DNR note in your pocket in case you are injured and the only medical professional available is transgender?...

Clearly emergency treatment is different but if women don’t want male nurses to carry out routine internal examinations that is their right. And there was an error for her which caused her some distress.

As for the clerical error that may or may not be true but quite a coincidence given current discussions in government about giving any man the right to declare himself female. The nurses response to the patient’s concerns was also more political than that of professional understanding.

[Withano]

As if you're still angry about an accident.

[Beso]

Its all a bit to posh to push.

[Tom4784]

I have also had a cancer scare in the past and I did care. Women tend to be more private that way. You see it in simple things like changing rooms where men nearly always walk around naked in friont of each other. Women not so much. Men pee in front of each other something women never do. Whether you want to see it or admit it or not there are distinct differences between men and women this way.

Does everyone really have to feel like you to have their feelings and opinions validated?

Stereotypes will get you nowhere.

Your last point makes no real sense, I assume you just wanted to score points but didn't really think what you wrote through? Because I never said anywhere that only people who think like me have valid opinions, that's definitely more of an attitude you tend to display.


Let’s clarify what I actually said shall we, not your interpretation. I did not say trans people were more likely to sexually abuse someone - I said that if any man can simply claim to feel like a woman and is therefore a woman and can have easier access to women and girls, such a policy will be taken advantage of by some men and the real creeps will come out of the woodwork with such an opportunity presented to them.

Aren’t most rapes and other sexual attacks mainly opportunistic in nature.

I’m so reassured that a young guy on an internet site says it will never happen.

What you said was sensationalist and driven by ignorance and fear. This is what you said.

And what’s frightening, particularly with all the allegations of male assaults on women and young girls of late, is that there are a lot of Savills out there. Any man could just claim to feel like a woman and gain access to female changing rooms and other areas and vulnerable women such as young girls. Commonsense has flown the coup with complete abandonment.

You basically did the trans equivalent of saying 'Gay marriage? What next? Making bestiality and paedophilia legal?' By making what would be an exceptionally rare (and currently impossible situation) seem commonplace, you are demonising trans people by comparing them to peadophiles by making out that they could just be faking it to molest people. You can't self certify yourself as a trans person at the moment and the law doesn't really cover someone who isn't certified. Any old peado can't just walk into a doctor's office and say 'I'm trans, now let me abuse people'. That's just incredibly so far removed from reality. Any kind of trans certification whether by a doctor or self certified isn't a license to rape people, you do understand that right?

Anybody you meet could be a potential rapist but that doesn't give you the right to demonise anyone that happens to be different from you.

[Brillopad]

Stereotypes will get you nowhere.

Your last point makes no real sense, I assume you just wanted to score points but didn't really think what you wrote through? Because I never said anywhere that only people who think like me have valid opinions, that's definitely more of an attitude you tend to display.




What you said was sensationalist and driven by ignorance and fear. This is what you said.



You basically did the trans equivalent of saying 'Gay marriage? What next? Making bestiality and paedophilia legal?' By making what would be an exceptionally rare (and currently impossible situation) seem commonplace, you are demonising trans people by comparing them to peadophiles by making out that they could just be faking it to molest people. You can't self certify yourself as a trans person at the moment and the law doesn't really cover someone who isn't certified. Any old peado can't just walk into a doctor's office and say 'I'm trans, now let me abuse people'. That's just incredibly so far removed from reality. Any kind of trans certification whether by a doctor or self certified isn't a license to rape people, you do understand that right?

Anybody you meet could be a potential rapist but that doesn't give you the right to demonise anyone that happens to be different from you.

As I said your interpretation.

My opinions are driven by the very real fear of the very real real risks that self-certification will pose to young vulnerable girls/women in currently protected female only areas not to mention the trampelling over of all womens’ rights to feel private, safe and unmolested is these female only areas.

Hey, you are not female so what do you care. It doesn’t affect you but nevertheless you think you have the right to support the dumping of such ludicrous proposals on those who it will actually affect. Your opinion on this has little value in comparison to those who it will actually affect.

[thesheriff443]

an opinion on tibb is only wrong with those that don't agree with it.

[DemolitionRed]

I wouldnt, but i would like the choice.:shrug:

And you have the choice if the choice is available. If its not available your treatment may be delayed.

I'm not sure what happened here but in normal circumstances they would of sent in a female chaperone. They were obviously busy, didn't think and got their wrists slapped for it.

[chuff me dizzy]

It’s no more prejudiced than the other side of the coin, where everyone is supposed to feel the same way and if they don’t they should put up and shut up.

Thankfully people have their own minds and won’t be dictated to by the far-left.

:clap1:

[Niamh.]

Then why would you care either way what sex the doctor is?

I would much rather a female doctor, you don't get a choice in hospitals but I have a female GP by choice

[Marsh.]

I would much rather a female doctor, you don't get a choice in hospitals but I have a female GP by choice
I meant in response to the person who said they don't identify as any sex.

It's a weird one for me. For a consultation where I'm discussing private matters (usually when evaluating my antidepressants) I prefer to see the female doctor. But if requiring a physical exam I'd be more comfortable with a male doctor. [emoji23]



(In before Scott or somebody makes this sexual :nono:)

[jaxie]

I can understand where this might be awkward. It's bad enough having to have the test without having added embarrassment but it seems like a genuine mistake and not a deliberate thing.

[Livia]

I don't want a man carrying out an intimate examination on me, and I don't want a transsexual either. I want someone who understands and has experienced puberty, periods, menstrual cramps and all the other sh1t we go through when you are born a woman. I know "born a woman" is an unfashionable phrase now, but it is true, none the less.

If someone wants to live as a woman and that will make them happy, then that's what they should do. And moreover, I will uphold their right to live a happy life as the person they believe they are. But... unless they have had a womb since their periods started, they will never be a real, 100% woman to me.

[Niamh.]

I meant in response to the person who said they don't identify as any sex.

It's a weird one for me. For a consultation where I'm discussing private matters (usually when evaluating my antidepressants) I prefer to see the female doctor. But if requiring a physical exam I'd be more comfortable with a male doctor. [emoji23]



(In before Scott or somebody makes this sexual :nono:)

For me, it's just with more female issues I think a female Doctor can relate more/really understand where I'm coming from. And obviously for physical exams it's less embarrassing/more comfortable with a female Doctor too for me

[user104658]

I'd rather have a female for a physical exam because it's nice for them to have a treat :shrug:.

[Marsh.]

I'd rather have a female for a physical exam because it's nice for them to have a treat :shrug:.
:joker:

[Niamh.]

I'd rather have a female for a physical exam because it's nice for them to have a treat :shrug:.

:laugh2:

[thesheriff443]

I don't want a man carrying out an intimate examination on me, and I don't want a transsexual either. I want someone who understands and has experienced puberty, periods, menstrual cramps and all the other sh1t we go through when you are born a woman. I know "born a woman" is an unfashionable phrase now, but it is true, none the less.

If someone wants to live as a woman and that will make them happy, then that's what they should do. And moreover, I will uphold their right to live a happy life as the person they believe they are. But... unless they have had a womb since their periods started, they will never be a real, 100% woman to me.

What if the nurse is a lesbian

[Niamh.]

What if the nurse is a lesbian

Her being lesbian would have zero effect on the points Livia made in her post though

[user104658]

What if the nurse is a lesbianThen they have even MORE experience of the female body so even better! Livia specifically requests gay or bisexual women doctors.

[Livia]

What if the nurse is a lesbian

She'd still be a woman.

[Livia]

Then they have even MORE experience of the female body so even better! Livia specifically requests gay or bisexual women doctors.

I told you that in confidence................

[DemolitionRed]

I would much rather a female doctor, you don't get a choice in hospitals but I have a female GP by choice

Men don't get a choice but women do. A man can't refuse a female nurse but a female can refuse a male nurse. Its the same when a nurse or doctor is attending a female patient. If its a male student nurse they have to ask the patient if they mind but if its a female student nurse they don't. Its double standards.

[Livia]

Men don't get a choice but women do. A man can't refuse a female nurse but a female can refuse a male nurse. Its the same when a nurse or doctor is attending a female patient. If its a male student nurse they have to ask the patient if they mind but if its a female student nurse they don't. Its double standards.

The cases of female medical staff sexually assaulting and/or raping male patients is so low as to be hardly there are all. And I'm sure that if it meant a lot to the man not to have a woman medic present, they would turn themselves inside out in an effort to oblige. So, hardly double standards.

[Niamh.]

Yeah I have to echo Livia there DR

[Jamie89]

Men don't get a choice but women do. A man can't refuse a female nurse but a female can refuse a male nurse. Its the same when a nurse or doctor is attending a female patient. If its a male student nurse they have to ask the patient if they mind but if its a female student nurse they don't. Its double standards.

The cases of female medical staff sexually assaulting and/or raping male patients is so low as to be hardly there are all. And I'm sure that if it meant a lot to the man not to have a woman medic present, they would turn themselves inside out in an effort to oblige. So, hardly double standards.

Can men request a female doctor/nurse do you know? If say he's been sexually assaulted by a man in the past and is having an intimate exam and would feel more comfortable with a woman carrying it out?

As a side note I'm surprised that the fear of sexual assault is a reason behind these preferences. I understand it I just find it quite sad that we don't even trust doctors and trained medical staff that are there to help us, not hurt us.

[AnnieK]

To be honest....I went through years of having to have smear tests every 3 months at the hospital due to abnormal cells and was seen by both men and women. I actually preferred being seen by a man, they were far gentler. I understand why a lot of people would prefer a woman though

[bots]

i don't think men and womens medical needs can be compared in this context. As a man, my prime concern is with the doctors competence above anything else. I would think it would be something like 1% of all potential medical issues that I could have, that I would be more comfortable if I was treated by a man. For a woman that % could easily be more than 50%

[Livia]

Can men request a female doctor/nurse do you know? If say he's been sexually assaulted by a man in the past and is having an intimate exam and would feel more comfortable with a woman carrying it out?

As a side note I'm surprised that the fear of sexual assault is a reason behind these preferences. I understand it I just find it quite sad that we don't even trust doctors and trained medical staff that are there to help us, not hurt us.

It's isn't just fear of assault. I want a female who gets me because she's been there herself. Sadly, medics are just human beings. Although the majority will be great, there will be a few who are not. If I requested a female medic on religious grounds the request would be met immediately. I don't understand why that's acceptable and simply choosing a female - and I mean a born female - to examine you.

And as for your original question, I have always found the NHS, despite their shortage of funds and overwork, will always go the extra mile to make someone comfortable if they are able. If a man would prefer a woman medic, and one is available, I'm sure they would make it so.

[DemolitionRed]

The cases of female medical staff sexually assaulting and/or raping male patients is so low as to be hardly there are all. And I'm sure that if it meant a lot to the man not to have a woman medic present, they would turn themselves inside out in an effort to oblige. So, hardly double standards.

It was double standards for a lot of years. Males have only been able to train in a civi nursing profession since 1951 and even now only make up just over 11% of all nursing staff. Its not that far back when women were discouraged from becoming doctors. Men were seen as the real professionals and women were seen as the Florence Nightingale's.

Male nurses really don't mind when a woman asks specifically for a female. It rarely happens though. Black nurses, male and female have more problems attending elderly females that white male nurses.

When it comes to specialized treatment, many patients still prefer male doctors.
My gynecologist is one of the top gynecologists in the country. His female nurse however is a grumpy brisk cow who I feel very uncomfortable having around whilst I'm being examined.

My third midwife was a male and he was the kindest most caring midwife I've had for all of my children.

[DemolitionRed]

Can men request a female doctor/nurse do you know? If say he's been sexually assaulted by a man in the past and is having an intimate exam and would feel more comfortable with a woman carrying it out?

As a side note I'm surprised that the fear of sexual assault is a reason behind these preferences. I understand it I just find it quite sad that we don't even trust doctors and trained medical staff that are there to help us, not hurt us.

A man can't just request a female nurse or doctor but if there are issues then that obviously has to be considered. Any patient has a right to have a chaperone (normally a health assistant or nurse)

[user104658]

Men don't get a choice but women do. A man can't refuse a female nurse but a female can refuse a male nurse. Its the same when a nurse or doctor is attending a female patient. If its a male student nurse they have to ask the patient if they mind but if its a female student nurse they don't. Its double standards.Don't know if it's the same in England but in Scotland, they do always have to ask if it's OK for a student to sit on on any appointment / procedure. My youngests sleep specialist nurse even had to ask if her student could come in and all they do there is sit and chat about how things are progressing :shrug:.

[Jamie89]

It's isn't just fear of assault. I want a female who gets me because she's been there herself. Sadly, medics are just human beings. Although the majority will be great, there will be a few who are not. If I requested a female medic on religious grounds the request would be met immediately. I don't understand why that's acceptable and simply choosing a female - and I mean a born female - to examine you.

And as for your original question, I have always found the NHS, despite their shortage of funds and overwork, will always go the extra mile to make someone comfortable if they are able. If a man would prefer a woman medic, and one is available, I'm sure they would make it so.

A man can't just request a female nurse or doctor but if there are issues then that obviously has to be considered. Any patient has a right to have a chaperone (normally a health assistant or nurse)

Ok thanks both. It's not something I've ever really thought about before but thinking about it now, I can't imagine feeling a preference of the gender of my doctor, say if it was a prostate exam or something where a male doctor might understand better what it's like to go through one. So I get where you're coming from Livia I just struggle to really understand it I suppose since I don't feel it myself. Maybe bots is right and it's more a male/female thing. Makes me wonder if a part of it is actually due to women being more likely to be shamed over their bodies, feeling judged by men, general objectification of women in society compared to men, and all of that having an impact.

[Niamh.]

Ok thanks both. It's not something I've ever really thought about before but thinking about it now, I can't imagine feeling a preference of the gender of my doctor, say if it was a prostate exam or something where a male doctor might understand better what it's like to go through one. So I get where you're coming from Livia I just struggle to really understand it I suppose since I don't feel it myself. Maybe bots is right and it's more a male/female thing. Makes me wonder if a part of it is actually due to women being more likely to be shamed over their bodies, feeling judged by men, general objectification of women in society compared to men, and all of that having an impact.

Quite possibly Jamie, also as BOTS said women tend to have to spend time with Doctors for womens stuff a big percentage of the time they spend at the Doctors in general. My GP is female and I find when I'm trying to explain things to her she knows exactly what I'm talking about first hand where as it's different if I have a hospital appointment and have a male Doctor it's more of an awkward conversation for me

[user104658]

And here's me shouting "catch!" as I throw the receptionist my still-warm pot of jizz :umm2:...

[DemolitionRed]

Don't know if it's the same in England but in Scotland, they do always have to ask if it's OK for a student to sit on on any appointment / procedure. My youngests sleep specialist nurse even had to ask if her student could come in and all they do there is sit and chat about how things are progressing :shrug:.

GP surgeries and clinic appointments/home appointments are different to A&E and ward care.

[Marsh.]

And here's me shouting "catch!" as I throw the receptionist my still-warm pot of jizz :umm2:...
Scott dressed as a nurse stealing it

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/__HpVztwktw/maxresdefault.jpg

[Northern Monkey]

I can see why women would want a female nurse for invasive procedures.
When i got my balls checked i had a male doc do it.On a different occasion i had a female doc slip her finger up my butthole.I’m not sure which i was more uncomfortable with tbh.
Just glad my male doc didn’t have to do the asshole checking,Mother****ers got big fingers :eek:

[Tom4784]

As I said your interpretation.

My opinions are driven by the very real fear of the very real real risks that self-certification will pose to young vulnerable girls/women in currently protected female only areas not to mention the trampelling over of all womens’ rights to feel private, safe and unmolested is these female only areas.

Hey, you are not female so what do you care. It doesn’t affect you but nevertheless you think you have the right to support the dumping of such ludicrous proposals on those who it will actually affect. Your opinion on this has little value in comparison to those who it will actually affect.

They are driven by irrationality and ignorance. You've taken what would be a rare and almost unheard of hypothetical scenario and you are treating it like it would be the norm and whether you intend to or not, you are demonising transgendered people by putting them all in the same light as sexual predators.

A man isn't going to be able to say 'I'm a woman now' and stroll into the women's changing room just like that even if self certification becomes a thing. Women won't be made to have intimate examinations done by someone they aren't comfortable with doing it. You've taken what is a story that was confirmed on all sides to be a clerical error, ignored all logic and reasoning that said it was so in order to fuel your own agenda of hating anything that isn't exactly like you.

You should pay attention, I've said to you a few times in this topic that I disagree with self certification, the current process we have isn't perfect and there are many transgendered people who are unhappy with the choices they've made and I think taking the professionals out of the equation to help guide people to the correct solution for themselves is a mistake. I actually agree with Theresa May in saying that transgendered people shouldn't be treated like they are ill but it should be mandatory that experts in the field oversee the process to make sure it's the right thing for the person in question.

As for your 'it doesn't affect you' line. Does sexual assault only happen to women in women's changing rooms? Men can be just as dangerous to other men, just like women can assault other women. Do you treat other women with such suspicion, sure, sexual assault by a woman on another woman in a changing room is probably rare but probably not as rare as an attack by a 'transgendered' person that's only pretending to be transgendered in order to rape people. Where's your concern for the safety of women from other women? Do you understand what I'm getting at here? You are using an almost unheard type of incident to fuel your agenda and it's just foolishness. There are many real issues that plague women regarding their safety that are way more common than the hypotheticals you are spouting but I doubt you'll ever talk about them since you only seem concerned about feminism when it's in regards to 'justifying' your hatred of whatever people you hate on any given day.

I think in all the years I've known you, in both names you've had on this website. I'm not sure I've ever seen you comment on a feminist issue that hasn't involved trying to justify your prejudices in some way. You pretend to be a feminist but you just want to vindicate your hatred.

[user104658]

Just glad my male doc didn’t have to do the asshole checking,Mother****ers got big fingers :eek:

More likely to get good contact with the prostate then NM, don't knock it until you've tried it. Those sausage fingers might have redefined your sex life.

[Northern Monkey]

More likely to get good contact with the prostate then NM, don't knock it until you've tried it. Those sausage fingers might have redefined your sex life.

Yeah she didn’t have to go that far up.Enough to make me wince though.It was a weight lifting incident.
Not down with the sausage fingers penetration,Not even for fun :laugh:

[bots]

Yeah she didn’t have to go that far up.Enough to make me wince though.It was a weight lifting incident.
Not down with the sausage fingers penetration,Not even for fun :laugh:

If you are lifting weights with your ass, you are doing it wrong :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

If you are lifting weights with your ass, you are doing it wrong :laugh:

Lol no.I split my sphincter squatting too heavy.

So glad you all know the intimate details of my cornhole now.

[Maru]

Ok thanks both. It's not something I've ever really thought about before but thinking about it now, I can't imagine feeling a preference of the gender of my doctor, say if it was a prostate exam or something where a male doctor might understand better what it's like to go through one. So I get where you're coming from Livia I just struggle to really understand it I suppose since I don't feel it myself. Maybe bots is right and it's more a male/female thing. Makes me wonder if a part of it is actually due to women being more likely to be shamed over their bodies, feeling judged by men, general objectification of women in society compared to men, and all of that having an impact.

It's just simply about what helps us to be the most comfortable. Doctor's visits are not trip to the park. It's talking about personal issues and not everyone wants to talk about those things on a frequent basis.

This is all anecdotal/hearsay, but it seems like women are much more in-tune with their self-care than men. Sometimes I think we obsess too much about our own bodies, but in the very least, we think far more about it and that discussion tends to make men kinda crazy or lack words to respond... :laugh: (some of my male doctors are like this)

When I did caretaking, you could see the differences in how men and women deal with healthcare. Men, I don't think they want a woman who over-analyzes all their inner workings, so I notice some prefer men (though they seem to be more OK with either). My husband doesn't want to deal with it. Men hate being babied and my husband dislikes it when I 'worry' over him (and then gets mad when I'm right later on). Women are usually the nurturing ones, so it's a bit weird when we're on the other side needing the actual nurturing. It can make some ppl feel a bit vulnerable, especially those who are so used to caring for other. So it's difficult to describe what is going on, and often there is a strong emotional component to it that needs unpacking.

For example, when I took my grandmother in to have something treated, we had a male doctor and she had trouble speaking up "Does this hurt?" "Yep". I put her in front of a woman, and after we got through a few questions, she delivered like a book. Basically, it comes down to trust. Men would rather just get through the visit with as few prompts as possible and say only what is necessary. Unless it's talking about how they ripped a whatever working out or picking up furniture, they tend to be more a-emotional when it comes to health.

Women also tend to not only want to, but need to talk out their problems on a more emotional level, especially in the cases where there are diseases that effect women in larger numbers and have higher emotional components. When it comes to things like hygiene or self-care for our own specific "issues", we prefer a female because they usually speak the same language and just "get it" with fewer fuss (and empty stares). It just goes much smoother.

If you tell a man about all the cramps and different foods that make us look bloated, men are just going to flop over in their seats and roll their eyes :laugh: That's just almost always seems to be the case. Men don't fixate on their health and some male doctors don't understand why we make such a big deal out of it.

When I was put in a study, they gave me a half-inch thick "manual" of sorts on how to cope with the disease. It's not a simple take medication and it'll be fine. It requires an elimination diet and treating your issue(s) like food allergies and also analyzing how you handle stress in your life (which was really difficult given the symptoms). I literally had a lady I spoke to over the phone regularly who kept up with my treatment (and did hand holding) and I don't think I could've gotten through that without my sisterhood. I also subscribed to a forum that is pretty much 99% women and the comradery I found there is just simply amazing.

There are diseases that effect women in much larger numbers (like 90%) and their symptoms do connect or at least become exacerbated by high stress factors. This is anecdotal, but it just seems like women's bodies just tend to be more sensitive to various factors, such as diet/emotional/hormonal. For example, I've known more women to have severely bad reactions to hormonal shifts than men. I can't take birth control for example. My husband is actually out of range on some of his, but he's asymptomatic, so he doesn't need medication.

Anyway, I have switched to male uro (he's a freaking badass) and a male gyno now, so it's not like male doctors can't be good too. But, I've long learned to cope and know my regime, so I'm just in need of "maintenance" every now and then. I don't really need anyone to hold my hand anymore.

TLDR: To sum it all, it's about trust and making the visit the least stressful/embarrassing/traumatic (:laugh:) as possible. Women tick differently than men, so we have different things that come into consideration compared to men.

[DemolitionRed]

More likely to get good contact with the prostate then NM, don't knock it until you've tried it. Those sausage fingers might have redefined your sex life.

:hehe:

[Jamie89]

It's just simply about what helps us to be the most comfortable. Doctor's visits are not trip to the park. It's talking about personal issues and not everyone wants to talk about those things on a frequent basis.

This is all anecdotal/hearsay, but it seems like women are much more in-tune with their self-care than men. Sometimes I think we obsess too much about our own bodies, but in the very least, we think far more about it and that discussion tends to make men kinda crazy or lack words to respond... :laugh: (some of my male doctors are like this)

When I did caretaking, you could see the differences in how men and women deal with healthcare. Men, I don't think they want a woman who over-analyzes all their inner workings, so I notice some prefer men (though they seem to be more OK with either). My husband doesn't want to deal with it. Men hate being babied and my husband dislikes it when I 'worry' over him (and then gets mad when I'm right later on). Women are usually the nurturing ones, so it's a bit weird when we're on the other side needing the actual nurturing. It can make some ppl feel a bit vulnerable, especially those who are so used to caring for other. So it's difficult to describe what is going on, and often there is a strong emotional component to it that needs unpacking.

For example, when I took my grandmother in to have something treated, we had a male doctor and she had trouble speaking up "Does this hurt?" "Yep". I put her in front of a woman, and after we got through a few questions, she delivered like a book. Basically, it comes down to trust. Men would rather just get through the visit with as few prompts as possible and say only what is necessary. Unless it's talking about how they ripped a whatever working out or picking up furniture, they tend to be more a-emotional when it comes to health.

Women also tend to not only want to, but need to talk out their problems on a more emotional level, especially in the cases where there are diseases that effect women in larger numbers and have higher emotional components. When it comes to things like hygiene or self-care for our own specific "issues", we prefer a female because they usually speak the same language and just "get it" with fewer fuss (and empty stares). It just goes much smoother.

If you tell a man about all the cramps and different foods that make us look bloated, men are just going to flop over in their seats and roll their eyes :laugh: That's just almost always seems to be the case. Men don't fixate on their health and some male doctors don't understand why we make such a big deal out of it.

When I was put in a study, they gave me a half-inch thick "manual" of sorts on how to cope with the disease. It's not a simple take medication and it'll be fine. It requires an elimination diet and treating your issue(s) like food allergies and also analyzing how you handle stress in your life (which was really difficult given the symptoms). I literally had a lady I spoke to over the phone regularly who kept up with my treatment (and did hand holding) and I don't think I could've gotten through that without my sisterhood. I also subscribed to a forum that is pretty much 99% women and the comradery I found there is just simply amazing.

There are diseases that effect women in much larger numbers (like 90%) and their symptoms do connect or at least become exacerbated by high stress factors. This is anecdotal, but it just seems like women's bodies just tend to be more sensitive to various factors, such as diet/emotional/hormonal. For example, I've known more women to have severely bad reactions to hormonal shifts than men. I can't take birth control for example. My husband is actually out of range on some of his, but he's asymptomatic, so he doesn't need medication.

Anyway, I have switched to male uro (he's a freaking badass) and a male gyno now, so it's not like male doctors can't be good too. But, I've long learned to cope and know my regime, so I'm just in need of "maintenance" every now and then. I don't really need anyone to hold my hand anymore.

TLDR: To sum it all, it's about trust and making the visit the least stressful/embarrassing/traumatic (:laugh:) as possible. Women tick differently than men, so we have different things that come into consideration compared to men.

Thanks Maru that's all very interesting to think about.

It's interesting you mentioned your grandma's experience. My Grandma is currently experiencing some problems with mental health issues and without going into too much detail on a public forum lol (and it's all pretty complicated), but basically she recently refused help from her GP (who is a man) or to discuss what's been happening recently with him. It wouldn't have even crossed my mind that his gender might have been a factor in her shutting herself off from medical help. And it might not be that, she has quite a complicated history, but it's interesting to consider that she might be more willing to get help or communicate with a female doctor. It's something to think about anyway.

[Kizzy]

It's isn't just fear of assault. I want a female who gets me because she's been there herself. Sadly, medics are just human beings. Although the majority will be great, there will be a few who are not. If I requested a female medic on religious grounds the request would be met immediately. I don't understand why that's acceptable and simply choosing a female - and I mean a born female - to examine you.

And as for your original question, I have always found the NHS, despite their shortage of funds and overwork, will always go the extra mile to make someone comfortable if they are able. If a man would prefer a woman medic, and one is available, I'm sure they would make it so.

Been where?..We are not all uniform with replica experiences even of the most base of functions therefore I don't understand your logic here.
To treat a patient do you need such an intense connection, if you were being treated for an ailment would you insist the doctor had experienced it prior to consultation?

[Maru]

Thanks Maru that's all very interesting to think about.

It's interesting you mentioned your grandma's experience. My Grandma is currently experiencing some problems with mental health issues and without going into too much detail on a public forum lol (and it's all pretty complicated), but basically she recently refused help from her GP (who is a man) or to discuss what's been happening recently with him. It wouldn't have even crossed my mind that his gender might have been a factor in her shutting herself off from medical help. And it might not be that, she has quite a complicated history, but it's interesting to consider that she might be more willing to get help or communicate with a female doctor. It's something to think about anyway.

Yeah, obviously it it varies by situation/circumstance, but there are times when being with someone who is better in sync with your specific differences are key to your care. A transgender may prefer another transgender physician for example, because they may see or consider things in someone's care that a non-trans would see. It's just better to have a choice. Obviously, there are times when it doesn't really matter. Like an ER, unless there's some sort of religious practice that not to have a male physician work with you, it should be reasonable enough to deal with whatever. And I don't think God would be too upset if you were unconscious and really had no say... and you wouldn't be aware of it anyway.

My other grandmother when she worked nursing (20+ years ago), she had to deal with elderly pt's who didn't want to be seen by African American men or other men, etc. They had mental issues as well (things like Alzheimers) and would flip a **** and get violent (like panic attack sorta rage) if you didn't comply with them. She's very understanding despite this and says it's pretty inhumane to try to place one's personal/politic motivators over the care of the pt. It's also not worth the time and effort to sit there and argue with them to convince it to do it their way. When she quit nursing, she started care-taking and some of the people she care-taked for were some of the most vile/obscene... like she would drive one old man around and he would scream out at other passengers in other cars "You *****ing n--" (etc)... he had been shot one time for doing that and that didn't change his behavior. He was quite vile. Some people you can't change no matter how much social conditioning you add to the equation... everyone has their neuroses. It's just a fact of life and something she not only accepted but affected her practice. She treated them all the same and they love/trusted her for it. In fact, part of the reason she quit working at the nursing home and went into caretaking was because too many people kept requesting for her. (plus she was getting too old to be doing as much of the heavy lifting)

[Livia]

Been where?..We are not all uniform with replica experiences even of the most base of functions therefore I don't understand your logic here.
To treat a patient do you need such an intense connection, if you were being treated for an ailment would you insist the doctor had experienced it prior to consultation?

Kizzy.... you could talk a pie off a shelf.

[Brillopad]

They are driven by irrationality and ignorance. You've taken what would be a rare and almost unheard of hypothetical scenario and you are treating it like it would be the norm and whether you intend to or not, you are demonising transgendered people by putting them all in the same light as sexual predators.

A man isn't going to be able to say 'I'm a woman now' and stroll into the women's changing room just like that even if self certification becomes a thing. Women won't be made to have intimate examinations done by someone they aren't comfortable with doing it. You've taken what is a story that was confirmed on all sides to be a clerical error, ignored all logic and reasoning that said it was so in order to fuel your own agenda of hating anything that isn't exactly like you.

You should pay attention, I've said to you a few times in this topic that I disagree with self certification, the current process we have isn't perfect and there are many transgendered people who are unhappy with the choices they've made and I think taking the professionals out of the equation to help guide people to the correct solution for themselves is a mistake. I actually agree with Theresa May in saying that transgendered people shouldn't be treated like they are ill but it should be mandatory that experts in the field oversee the process to make sure it's the right thing for the person in question.

As for your 'it doesn't affect you' line. Does sexual assault only happen to women in women's changing rooms? Men can be just as dangerous to other men, just like women can assault other women. Do you treat other women with such suspicion, sure, sexual assault by a woman on another woman in a changing room is probably rare but probably not as rare as an attack by a 'transgendered' person that's only pretending to be transgendered in order to rape people. Where's your concern for the safety of women from other women? Do you understand what I'm getting at here? You are using an almost unheard type of incident to fuel your agenda and it's just foolishness. There are many real issues that plague women regarding their safety that are way more common than the hypotheticals you are spouting but I doubt you'll ever talk about them since you only seem concerned about feminism when it's in regards to 'justifying' your hatred of whatever people you hate on any given day.

I think in all the years I've known you, in both names you've had on this website. I'm not sure I've ever seen you comment on a feminist issue that hasn't involved trying to justify your prejudices in some way. You pretend to be a feminist but you just want to vindicate your hatred.

There you go again - with the hate. That is a word far more common in your vocabulary than mine.

Every time I express opinions on anything involving a minority group you stereotype me as a racist, homophobe etc. Classic shut-down tactics and your problem not mine.

You’re not a woman, you don’t how it feels to be a woman and you will never really get it so don’t try and kid people you know more about feminism than women. You are not the thought police however hard you try to be.

[Brillopad]

Been where?..We are not all uniform with replica experiences even of the most base of functions therefore I don't understand your logic here.
To treat a patient do you need such an intense connection, if you were being treated for an ailment would you insist the doctor had experienced it prior to consultation?

Tell you what you have whoever you want to perform intimate examinations on you but how about you afford the same freedom of choice to others. You make your choice whilst others will make theirs without explanation to you or anyone else.

[Vicky.]

Yeah I read about this a few days ago. If a female is requested, there should be a female doing it.

I know this was claimed to be an admin error, but the transsexual person actually argued with the patient when the patient mentioned requesting a female and they said 'I identify as female' or something...but identifying as female does not make you female. This is absolutely an issue about consent, and I do think that patients should be able to request a certain sex of doctor for intimate examinations.

[Vicky.]

Ah, I didn't read the link as I had already read the story elsewhere, it was not 'I identify as female' it was as the article stated

When the patient pointed out the mistake, the nurse replied: “My gender is not male. I’m a transsexual.”

So whilst this was claimed to be an admin error, the transsexual person obviously believes that identifying as female means one is female. Which is false.

[Tom4784]

There you go again - with the hate. That is a word far more common in your vocabulary than mine.

Every time I express opinions on anything involving a minority group you stereotype me as a racist, homophobe etc. Classic shut-down tactics and your problem not mine.

You’re not a woman, you don’t how it feels to be a woman and you will never really get it so don’t try and kid people you know more about feminism than women. You are not the thought police however hard you try to be.

The only person trying to shut anyone down is you by trying to make out that I'm the 'thought police' for saying my opinion. It's what you always do and then in the same breath you'll accuse other people of doing the same to you.

You have no self awareness to the point that it's just bizarre at this point.

I don't claim to know more about feminism than most women, I just know more about it than a faux feminist like you that only mentions feminism when it comes to hating muslims or whichever minority whose turn it is to deserve your bile. You'll accept things like the DUP/Tory deal despite the fact that the DUP want to erode women's rights just because it serves your real agenda of hating muslims/immigrants etc. You are only a feminist when it serves your HATE and yes I will use that word because, while you don't use the word often, it defines who you are as a person perfectly.

Your opinion is not protected from criticism, Brillo. No one's is so stop trying to make out that no one can comment on what is frequent and obvious bigotry on your part. If you don't like those claims refute them.

This is a debate section, DEBATE.

[Kizzy]

Kizzy.... you could talk a pie off a shelf.

Oh sorry I thought this was the debate section and that was the idea?...

[Kizzy]

Tell you what you have whoever you want to perform intimate examinations on you but how about you afford the same freedom of choice to others. You make your choice whilst others will make theirs without explanation to you or anyone else.

I will doesn't stop me voicing the opinion that the concept is a nonsense... As in it makes no sense.

As women we don't all intrinsically understand one another, and electing people to perform duties in this field only reaches so far... in a specialised or emergency situation it would be anyone, unless you prefer to not accept treatment in those circumstances also to sustain your 'principles'.
I suspect not many would have their ethics stretch that far.

[Vicky.]

I agree with everyone else that this is ultimately a non-story and the intentions to make this nurse seem like some sort of predator is clear but when it comes to Transgender people I don't think they should be classed as their intended gender until they actually transition.

Definitely agree with this. Transition completed, ok.

However in a medical setting I really do still think that even transitioned transsexual people should not be sent if a certain sex is requested. Luckily the current law does have an exception for this. Just if it all gets changed..it does remove the rights of both women and men to a same sex (or oppiosite sex..I know a lot of men who request female doctors for anything to do with intimate exams) HCP.

[Vicky.]

Men don't get a choice but women do. A man can't refuse a female nurse but a female can refuse a male nurse. Its the same when a nurse or doctor is attending a female patient. If its a male student nurse they have to ask the patient if they mind but if its a female student nurse they don't. Its double standards.

Thats not true. My husband always requests men for intimate exams. And male friends apparently ask for female ones and get them.

[Brillopad]

The only person trying to shut anyone down is you by trying to make out that I'm the 'thought police' for saying my opinion. It's what you always do and then in the same breath you'll accuse other people of doing the same to you.

You have no self awareness to the point that it's just bizarre at this point.

I don't claim to know more about feminism than most women, I just know more about it than a faux feminist like you that only mentions feminism when it comes to hating muslims or whichever minority whose turn it is to deserve your bile. You'll accept things like the DUP/Tory deal despite the fact that the DUP want to erode women's rights just because it serves your real agenda of hating muslims/immigrants etc. You are only a feminist when it serves your HATE and yes I will use that word because, while you don't use the word often, it defines who you are as a person perfectly.

Your opinion is not protected from criticism, Brillo. No one's is so stop trying to make out that no one can comment on what is frequent and obvious bigotry on your part. If you don't like those claims refute them.

This is a debate section, DEBATE.

You seriously think you debate. Plenty of people have tried debating with you and clearly winning the arguement but you always turn it into how right you are and how ignorant and ill-informed they are, same old lines. You will not admit to your failings and just keep playing the same self-righteous saviour of all things minority.

You in all your wisdom state as fact I HATE Muslims because I don’t approve of mass migration and do not support the wearing of a Burkha in public. Now I aaparently hate transgender men because I don’t want female privacy and choice eroded and point out the obvious risks associated with allowing any man claiming to be female in female areas. If those opinions in ithemselves define hate in your world then bully for you, but it is a very small and convenient world you live in.

What about all the victims worldwide, mainly women, of Islamic hate, hate that kills and controls, but ssshh we can’t mention that - it isn’t PC.

[user104658]

More likely to get good contact with the prostate then NM, don't knock it until you've tried it. Those sausage fingers might have redefined your sex life.

My husband always requests men for intimate exams.

See NM, Mr Vicky knows the score.

[Marsh.]

More likely to get good contact with the prostate then NM, don't knock it until you've tried it. Those sausage fingers might have redefined your sex life.

What you must put your poor wife through. :nono:

[Maru]

Definitely agree with this. Transition completed, ok.

However in a medical setting I really do still think that even transitioned transsexual people should not be sent if a certain sex is requested. Luckily the current law does have an exception for this. Just if it all gets changed..it does remove the rights of both women and men to a same sex (or oppiosite sex..I know a lot of men who request female doctors for anything to do with intimate exams) HCP.

I agree. Another reason, because even if they transition, fine... but what if they're not "passable"? Not to be rude, but some people would still see a man if certain features made it more obvious. It's just the way it is. Now, if people mean by transition, that they dress like the self-identifying gender, then that makes sense I guess because if you see dress/lots of make up, then you know a woman... but not only can be that difficult in a setting with uniforms, but then you run into that whole gender spectrum/gender conforming boogie man where you're not quite a girl, not quite a boy and then you may be a girl, but you dress like a boy? Or a boy dresses like a girl? It's just too much for me, it's like chasing your own tail :laugh: I'm all for doing whatever the hell I want, but put a checkbox on my form, "transgender OK?" I can check this? OK. Easy. Otherwise it's forcing the situation and needlessly pushing the doctor/nurse+patient into an uncomfortable confrontation and causing another one of these stupid articles to get printed in the papers.

[Maru]

See NM, Mr Vicky knows the score.

Uh oh. Mine does too. Has he strayed from Team Vagina? :worry:

[user104658]

Uh oh. Mine does too. Has he strayed from Team Vagina? :worry:That's a bit backwards Maru. Just because me, your husband, Vicky's husband, Northern Monkey and Marsh like a large weather-worn finger in the butt, does not mean we aren't straight :nono:.

[Maru]

That's a bit backwards Maru. Just because me, your husband, Vicky's husband, Northern Monkey and Marsh like a large weather-worn finger in the butt, does not mean we aren't straight :nono:.

Well as long as it's only Team Maru then it's OK. But I have pretty long, but quite slender fingers. It's those painterly/artist hands you know... more for fine grippage and charismatic fluid strokes... so maybe not so good for door #2, but maybe good for other creative outlets :smug:

It's a shame we can't self-exam, this thread would be so easy. I mean we do self-breast exams once per month (well, we should...) to check for lumps. If a penis stops working, it's pretty obvious. It's just a finger for you guys for a minute or two(?), but for the women's the doctor goes spelunking with an a double ice cream scoop for 10-15. I've never asked my husband about his anal spelunking... actually I'll ask him in the morning

[Ammi]

...just going back a bit in the thread, yeah I think that it would be 'perfect' if it was always possible for our wishes/preferences to be catered for..in an 'ideal world of NHS' as it were...but the NHS is struggling a bit in this country so that may not always be possible for the long-term future..?...I've had several procedures in hospital which have not been routine procedures and in all honesty, the gender of the person carrying them out hasn't even entered my thoughts..so I guess I have to think..would it be right for me to be 'selective' just because the procedure was a routine one, like a smear test..?...no I feel it would be wrong for me to feel like that because in an NHS where many are reluctant to be a part of it in their job/vocation in the current climate, I'm just thankful that there are those who still want to join and be a part of the care of us all...

... although there will always be some people who would abuse positions of trust in all walks of life, I do believe they are the very small minority so it's not something I could really occupy my thoughts with too much...if it were the thing that people didn't feel comfortable with transgender nursing staff then a vocation desperately needed could just be wasted.../sad...

[Maru]

...just going back a bit in the thread, yeah I think that it would be 'perfect' if it was always possible for our wishes/preferences to be catered for..in an 'ideal world of NHS' as it were...but the NHS is struggling a bit in this country so that may not always be possible for the long-term future..?...I've had several procedures in hospital which have not been routine procedures and in all honesty, the gender of the person carrying them out hasn't even entered my thoughts..so I guess I have to think..would it be right for me to be 'selective' just because the procedure was a routine one, like a smear test..?...no I feel it would be wrong for me to feel like that because in an NHS where many are reluctant to be a part of it in their job/vocation in the current climate, I'm just thankful that there are those who still want to join and be a part of the care of us all...

... although there will always be some people who would abuse positions of trust in all walks of life, I do believe they are the very small minority so it's not something I could really occupy my thoughts with too much...if it were the thing that people didn't feel comfortable with transgender nursing staff then a vocation desperately needed could just be wasted.../sad...

Do you have the liberty normally of changing doctors in the NHS? In the US, it's your job to search and find a physician, of which there's usually a wide network (especially in a metro). Maybe some types of insurance prefer you pick a primary care (like dental), but for many, you can change in-between PCPs without informing ins or even the prior office. And specialists are always chosen by you anyway and is your job to research. They may be chosen by the ins if your area/coverage is very limited. (That's odd though)

My grandmother is retired and yes, they do receive Medicare (govt-subsidized), but they also get private ins (their choosing) and sometimes there is a supplemental for what's called the "donut hole". The ins is usually quite flexible. Edit: Oh and we get a tax document at the end of the year, so it ends up being tax deductible (if medical costs exceed a certain percentage) since is automatically redrawn from your social security (from govt after retiring after 65), so that's nice too.

I think that is ideal, because you can pretty much mix and match your care. For example, if I were transgender, I could see a transgender PCP and then choose specialists according to expertise. In the progressive side of Houston, a lot of the LGBT folk are well-networked and so not uncommon to run into folk there running their own businesses and the community there pretty much supports them on their own without having to worry about the rest of the county. Free market really shines in this respect. We do not have state income tax and small business to chain ratio is 20:1/10:1 (maybe more o_O), just going by store facades. Chains are not as common as just everyday folk running a business and there are plenty of choices for pretty much everything in a city that spans 100-150 miles (massive sprawl), so plenty of opportunity for people to target niche markets since it is an entrepreneur friendly city... we're already a majority minority city, but forgot by what margin.

Edit: Anyway I can see where that would really impact someone's concept of the status quo and vice versa

[DemolitionRed]

Thats not true. My husband always requests men for intimate exams. And male friends apparently ask for female ones and get them.

I don’t know about GP’s but hospitals are not gender specific. Best practice can be used for men or women but more often its used for women, especially around intimate care. I’m not saying best practice for men is never used but there are a lot more female nurses than male nurses so if a male patient asks for a male nurse and there is no male nurse working in that department, the hospital are not obliged to provide one.

[Vicky.]

I don’t know about GP’s but hospitals are not gender specific. Best practice can be used for men or women but more often its used for women, especially around intimate care. I’m not saying best practice for men is never used but there are a lot more female nurses than male nurses so if a male patient asks for a male nurse and there is no male nurse working in that department, the hospital are not obliged to provide one.

Oh I took your post to be meaning women can request same sex but men cannot at all.

Have never had an intimate exam done in a hospital (exception of giving birth obviously :laugh: ), nor has my husband. But clearly it IS possible to request a same sex practitioner as otherwise this would not have been noted as an admin error, it would have been stated that the right to request either sex was not possible for hospital examinations.

Either way though, the nurse in this case was clearly a dick to argue with the patient claiming their gender identity meant they were actually the opposite sex when the patient said to them that they had asked for a female. So woman was fine asking for a female person to do the exam. NHS made an error but things happen I guess. HCP was very wrong to argue with patient about something patient could see with their own eyes..and to have the mistaken belief that everyone subscribes to this silly idea that physical sex is not a real thing...

[user104658]

I genuinely think that in a professional medical setting, people should be viewing it as a job title rather than a gender anyway. It's more like a mechanic checking a car... It's very rarely comfortable being checked over in any way but you just do it and get on with it? :shrug:

I think it's fair enough, from a safety point of view, for there to be two staff present for certain procedures and for example to request a 2nd staff member with gender of choice to sit in. To be honest it would be a good idea for that to be standard. Other than that... Surely the most important thing is having the most qualified people for the job checking you over? I guess I see it as, when you step into a clinical setting, they are doctors / nurses. Not males / females / transgendered or whatever.

[Vicky.]

Well speaking personally I don't mind which sex does smears and such. If I am totally honest I prefer male people as they tend to be gentler from my experience..so I am a bit odd that way. But I don't think the decision should be taken away from others who DO want/need to chose. So many people have been abused. Some people can't have males touching them on religious grounds..and so on.

And this still doesn't change the fact that this nurse argued with the patient about it rather than accepting that they are NOT a female person, as has been requested. Which is a douche move, however you look at it.

[Crimson Dynamo]

i had a woman slice open my testicles and then sew it back and 2 others in the room at the time as I recall and it never occurred to me that it should be a bloke doing it.



One of the nurses was Irish and I was thinking about lodging a complaint there mind you

:suspect:

[user104658]

i had a woman slice open my testicles and then sew it back and 2 others in the room at the time as I recall and it never occurred to me that it should be a bloke doing it.



One of the nurses was Irish and I was thinking about lodging a complaint there mind you

:suspect:

Only three people? I got six! I can only assume they heard I was coming in and there was a mad rush for overtime? One of them was reassuringly patting my chest and kept "accidentally" stroking my nipple.

I have very confusing memories of that day :(

[Vicky.]

I still can't believe they do the snip without a general anesthetic tbh. Sounds horrific D:

[Beso]

I still can't believe they do the snip without a general anesthetic tbh. Sounds horrific D:

Well i was knocked out.

Ps, they could have had anyone doing the op for all i cared...anyone apart from the ex wife that is.

[Vicky.]

Well i was knocked out.

Ps, they could have had anyone doing the op for all i cared...anyone apart from the ex wife that is.

Lucky you. I would have thought that was a universal thing, but seems not

[user104658]

I still can't believe they do the snip without a general anesthetic tbh. Sounds horrific D:It's not a picnic :joker:. But to be honest, the following 2 days are worse. The leaflet says you can return to work the next day but I have no idea what sort of masochist would do that to themself, I was in bed with Netflix and a bag of frozen peas for 3 days!

And still felt like I was being repeatedly kicked in the nads when walking around a week later.

And being totally honest there was mild discomfort for nearly 4 months :umm2:.

[Vicky.]

Yeah my dad reckons its a long recovery time. he was laid up in bed completely in agony for 5 days and said he still had moderate pain for a month or so too

[user104658]

Lucky you. I would have thought that was a universal thing, but seems notIf you go private it's not even a full on surgery these days... It's like a 10 minute procedure with a laser scalpel :joker:. NHS it's the rusty scissors, hahaha.

I actually watched them do the whole thing, which apparently is unusual, most people close their eyes or look away. I always watch these things!

And tbh, it was like 50% less traumatising than when I had my big toenail removed. That was ****ing disgusting to watch and so painful that I feel sick thinking about it.

[Beso]

Wish i wore the cup.one looked like an excited puffer fish

[Niamh.]

I still can't believe they do the snip without a general anesthetic tbh. Sounds horrific D:

Gav had it done with local anesthetic, he said it didn't hurt but it was odd like he could feel things being pulled on the inside but it didn't hurt

[Niamh.]

If you go private it's not even a full on surgery these days... It's like a 10 minute procedure with a laser scalpel :joker:. NHS it's the rusty scissors, hahaha.

I actually watched them do the whole thing, which apparently is unusual, most people close their eyes or look away. I always watch these things!

And tbh, it was like 50% less traumatising than when I had my big toenail removed. That was ****ing disgusting to watch and so painful that I feel sick thinking about it.

Oh that sounds horrific, I would not watch that, I don't even look when I'm getting blood drawn :laugh:

[user104658]

Wish i wore the cup.one looked like an excited puffer fishA coworker of mine went JOGGING two days after getting his done and ended up back in surgery because he ruptured something and his whole ballsack turned purple. LOL

[Niamh.]

I genuinely think that in a professional medical setting, people should be viewing it as a job title rather than a gender anyway. It's more like a mechanic checking a car... It's very rarely comfortable being checked over in any way but you just do it and get on with it? :shrug:

I think it's fair enough, from a safety point of view, for there to be two staff present for certain procedures and for example to request a 2nd staff member with gender of choice to sit in. To be honest it would be a good idea for that to be standard. Other than that... Surely the most important thing is having the most qualified people for the job checking you over? I guess I see it as, when you step into a clinical setting, they are doctors / nurses. Not males / females / transgendered or whatever.

Anytime I've had to go to hospital for stuff I've never even considered asking for a specific sex/gender, they're already stretched enough so I just take whoever I get :laugh: Over here you have to pay for GP visits so can choose to go to whoever you want so I've always gone for a female Doctor

[Beso]

Hey TS..

Your toe nail..i used to get crippled with backpain for 5 or do hours if i got out the works van sometimes...my big toe nail on the opposite side was all dying and decaying so i sat and ripped it right out myself.

Never ever even felt a twinge in my back since...probably mentioned it before, but i found it interesting and must have a connection.


Ps, i videod it...wanna see me trotters?

[Beso]

A coworker of mine went JOGGING two days after getting his done and ended up back in surgery because he ruptured something and his whole ballsack turned purple. LOL

Jogging:joker:...co worker:hee:...sounds more like he had a crafty wank.:nono:

[user104658]

Gav had it done with local anesthetic, he said it didn't hurt but it was odd like he could feel things being pulled on the inside but it didn't hurtYeah, most of the procedure itself felt like... I would say... Having strings tied to something in your abdomen and then tugged around a bit. The part that hurt was the anaesthetic injections themselves, though I dunno how normal that is, because the first side didn't hurt but the second was baaad. Might have been a **** up because I also felt more during on that side and some sharp pain when they were stitching which you're definitely not meant to feel... I don't think the anaesthetic fully took on that side.

[Niamh.]

Yeah, most of the procedure itself felt like... I would say... Having strings tied to something in your abdomen and then tugged around a bit. The part that hurt was the anaesthetic injections themselves, though I dunno how normal that is, because the first side didn't hurt but the second was baaad. Might have been a **** up because I also felt more during on that side and some sharp pain when they were stitching which you're definitely not meant to feel... I don't think the anaesthetic fully took on that side.

Well it was a longtime ago when Gav had it done but I think I remember him saying one side was worse aswell :think:

[Crimson Dynamo]

Gav had it done with local anesthetic, he said it didn't hurt but it was odd like he could feel things being pulled on the inside but it didn't hurt

yes same with me. They inject something to freeze the baw bag and then slice away but there is no pain

[Crimson Dynamo]

i did ask for something for the pain

but could I keep the swelling


:hee:

[Beso]

Can you stop now, my balls have feelings too.

[user104658]

Hey TS..

Your toe nail..i used to get crippled with backpain for 5 or do hours if i got out the works van sometimes...my big toe nail on the opposite side was all dying and decaying so i sat and ripped it right out myself.

Never ever even felt a twinge in my back since...probably mentioned it before, but i found it interesting and must have a connection.


Ps, i videod it...wanna see me trotters?You were probably putting more weight on the good foot and less on the bad one which puts strain on your lower back. Never had it with my toe but I cracked a bone in my foot in my teens and ended up with a bad back from limping about for weeks.

[Niamh.]

The toe nail stories are worse :worry:

[Vicky.]

The toenail stories are making me feel quite ill

[user104658]

The toe nail stories are worse :worry:It just flat out is worse I think! They all looked totally unphased during the balls surgery but the doctor who did my toenail looked like she was going to be sick :joker:. She was sweating and went really pale.

It must feel horrible to do tbf. They sort of jam these little pliers right under the nail down to the base and then twist back and forward until it pops off... Takes quite a lot of effort too... She had to get a nurse to hold my foot down while she tug-of-warred it off.

[Beso]

It never made it painfull to walk..

[Crimson Dynamo]

https://media1.tenor.com/images/00e269ee907ca3e1d23910d9ed0b6d8a/tenor.gif?itemid=3887568

[Livia]

Oh sorry I thought this was the debate section and that was the idea?...

Yes, debate. Not monologues.


I would imagine that after a couple of kids some women may insist a vasectomy be carried out without anaesthetic by the biggest, roughest pair of hands available.

[Niamh.]

It just flat out is worse I think! They all looked totally unphased during the balls surgery but the doctor who did my toenail looked like she was going to be sick :joker:. She was sweating and went really pale.

It must feel horrible to do tbf. They sort of jam these little pliers right under the nail down to the base and then twist back and forward until it pops off... Takes quite a lot of effort too... She had to get a nurse to hold my foot down while she tug-of-warred it off.

ugh gross, it's actually a form of torture used too, pulling out peoples finger/toe nails :worry:

[DemolitionRed]

If you go private it's not even a full on surgery these days... It's like a 10 minute procedure with a laser scalpel :joker:. NHS it's the rusty scissors, hahaha.

I actually watched them do the whole thing, which apparently is unusual, most people close their eyes or look away. I always watch these things!

And tbh, it was like 50% less traumatising than when I had my big toenail removed. That was ****ing disgusting to watch and so painful that I feel sick thinking about it.

Did you watch as they removed your toenail? I had to have my thumbnail removed after an accident and the junior nurse in attendannce passed out.

[user104658]

Yeah, I've had both done and watched both times. It's really grim :joker:. I have to admit I started chuckling a bit the second time because the doctor looked so upset about it... The nurse that was there was asking HER if she was OK! [emoji23]

[Jamie89]

Oh I took your post to be meaning women can request same sex but men cannot at all.

Have never had an intimate exam done in a hospital (exception of giving birth obviously :laugh: ), nor has my husband. But clearly it IS possible to request a same sex practitioner as otherwise this would not have been noted as an admin error, it would have been stated that the right to request either sex was not possible for hospital examinations.

Either way though, the nurse in this case was clearly a dick to argue with the patient claiming their gender identity meant they were actually the opposite sex when the patient said to them that they had asked for a female. So woman was fine asking for a female person to do the exam. NHS made an error but things happen I guess. HCP was very wrong to argue with patient about something patient could see with their own eyes..and to have the mistaken belief that everyone subscribes to this silly idea that physical sex is not a real thing...

We don't know that she argued about it or that there was anything wrong with her attitude tbf, what she said could have simply been a response to her gender being questioned, she might have been asked directly and her response was what she believes her gender to be :shrug: (we also don't know that she believes everyone should agree with her... this is all assumptions, it's a small soundbite of what the nurse had said in the article and no actual comments from her to give her own pov or version). But considering the patient didn't want to raise a complaint about her I think it's unfair to assume she was being aggressive (the patient had no qualms about making a complaint against the hospital so I think it's fair to assume she would also have made a complaint about the nurse if she thought she'd been inappropriate).
The problem lies with whoever made the error in my view, the nurse shouldn't be demonised or shouldering the blame for any of this, she's just carrying out her job and trying to help people and was probably equally embarrassed and upset over the situation as the patient was.

[Vicky.]

We don't know that she argued about it or that there was anything wrong with her attitude tbf, what she said could have simply been a response to her gender being questioned, she might have been asked directly and her response was what she believes her gender to be :shrug: (we also don't know that she believes everyone should agree with her... this is all assumptions, it's a small soundbite of what the nurse had said in the article and no actual comments from her to give her own pov or version). But considering the patient didn't want to raise a complaint about her I think it's unfair to assume she was being aggressive (the patient had no qualms about making a complaint against the hospital so I think it's fair to assume she would also have made a complaint about the nurse if she thought she'd been inappropriate).
The problem lies with whoever made the error in my view, the nurse shouldn't be demonised or shouldering the blame for any of this, she's just carrying out her job and trying to help people and was probably equally embarrassed and upset over the situation as the patient was.
I didn't assume they were aggressive? But they came back with bollocks about gender identity when the patient said they asked for a female. 'Gender identity' does not make one the sex you want to be.

The nurse did not make the original mistake, but the nurse did feel the need to come back with 'gender identity' crap when the patient said they had requested a female. Thats seriously crappy for a healthcare professional. Who ought to know that some people request same sex practitioners and should understand that.

[Jamie89]

I didn't assume they were aggressive? But they came back with bollocks about gender identity when the patient said they asked for a female. 'Gender identity' does not make one the sex you want to be.

The nurse did not make the original mistake, but the nurse did feel the need to come back with 'gender identity' crap when the patient said they had requested a female. Thats seriously crappy for a healthcare professional. Who ought to know that some people request same sex practitioners and should understand that.

*swap 'aggressive' for 'argumentative' then :laugh: that's what I was referring to.

All we really know is that she was questioned over her gender, and she replied with what she believes her gender to be. We know nothing else around what was said or discussed or that she was unprofessional in her dealings with the patient or argumentative. She may have handled the situation professionally for all we know but in that instance of being questioned over a personal attribute, she replied. If as an example a nurse is a born female but she looked like a man and was questioned about her gender by a patient and replied with 'I'm female'... would you consider that to be unprofessional or simply an answer to what is being asked? A strong indicator as to her professionalism or attitude would be if she was included within the patients complaint, but she wasn't. I just find this over focusing on the nurse because of 1 line in the article that assumptions are being drawn from when nothing about her attitude is even mentioned is a bit ott.

[Vicky.]

*swap 'aggressive' for 'argumentative' then :laugh: that's what I was referring to.

All we really know is that she was questioned over her gender, and she replied with what she believes her gender to be. We know nothing else around what was said or discussed or that she was unprofessional in her dealings with the patient or argumentative. She may have handled the situation professionally for all we know but in that instance of being questioned over a personal attribute, she replied. If as an example a nurse is a born female but she looked like a man and was questioned about her gender by a patient and replied with 'I'm female'... would you consider that to be unprofessional or simply an answer to what is being asked? A strong indicator as to her professionalism or attitude would be if she was included within the patients complaint, but she wasn't. I just find this over focusing on the nurse because of 1 line in the article that assumptions are being drawn from when nothing about her attitude is even mentioned is a bit ott.
The nurse would actually be female though in that case? Quite different to a male person saying they are not male. I get that they want to be female, I do. But they are not and when the patient specified that they asked for a female person (and yes, the nurse was not at fault for whoever booked the appointment sending a male person...) it should have just been 'ok, sorry about that'. Not claiming to not be male. And male is not a 'gender' either :facepalm:

[Vicky.]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-shocked-transgender-nhs-nurse-11776953

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/898458/NHS-transgender-latest-news-Justine-Greening-NHS-cervical-smear-male-nurse

Another couple of links that go into a bit more detail too.

Central and North West London NHS Foundation Trust said: “We apologised to this patient for the recording error and because the staff member accepted they didn’t manage the situation appropriately or professionally; the patient needed to feel listened to.

“Trust policy for all services is to consider seriously all requests for clinicians of a particular gender; it allows patients to feel more supported; we will deny a request if we believe it to be sexually motivated or where there might be a risk to a member of staff, but we will always explain ourselves.”

[Jamie89]

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/woman-shocked-transgender-nhs-nurse-11776953

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/898458/NHS-transgender-latest-news-Justine-Greening-NHS-cervical-smear-male-nurse

Another couple of links that go into a bit more detail too.

Ok I wasn't aware of that, I was just going by the article in the OP and I thought this was all assumptions, I didn't realise there was more information on how the nurse handled the situation so I'll concede on that. (I'd still like to think that she wouldn't have intended to cause any unnecessary distress to anyone and just found herself in an uncomfortable and difficult situation that she shouldn't have been put in in the first place, but yes that's just an assumption too :p )

[Vicky.]

Sorry I didn't read the OP article in full as had already read the story and remembered that that had been said about the nurses conduct. Didn't think to actually read the same one again :laugh:

[Marsh.]

It just flat out is worse I think! They all looked totally unphased during the balls surgery but the doctor who did my toenail looked like she was going to be sick :joker:. She was sweating and went really pale.

It must feel horrible to do tbf. They sort of jam these little pliers right under the nail down to the base and then twist back and forward until it pops off... Takes quite a lot of effort too... She had to get a nurse to hold my foot down while she tug-of-warred it off.
:laugh2:

[Brillopad]

Ok I wasn't aware of that, I was just going by the article in the OP and I thought this was all assumptions, I didn't realise there was more information on how the nurse handled the situation so I'll concede on that. (I'd still like to think that she wouldn't have intended to cause any unnecessary distress to anyone and just found herself in an uncomfortable and difficult situation that she shouldn't have been put in in the first place, but yes that's just an assumption too :p )

I think the one put in the most uncomfortable position was the poor women patient who, like most women, dreaded the examination only to be put in the uncomfortable and embarrassing position she was and ended up, probably after a lot of psyching up for the exam in the first place, having to cancel it. The patient is the one who should never have been put in that position in the first place.

[Jamie89]

I think the one put in the most uncomfortable position was the poor women patient who, like most women, dreaded the examination only to be put in the uncomfortable and embarrassing position she was and ended up, probably after a lot of psyching up for the exam in the first place, having to cancel it. The patient is the one who should never have been put in that position in the first place.Yes, I think I've stated in here that it must have been very uncomfortable for the patient. I only mentioned the nurse's discomfort in the post you quoted because that's who we were talking about. It will have been very uncomfortable for both of them.