India - Why is she disliked?

[Daniel-X]

Idk I just get the vibe India isn't very popular on here, but after last nights HLs she's probably my favourite? Just wanted some insight into why quite a few on here seem to dislike such a gobby legend.

[Santa's NaughtiNess]

Taking Ann's bed for a start :nono:

[Kazanne]

Idk I just get the vibe India isn't very popular on here, but after last nights HLs she's probably my favourite? Just wanted some insight into why quite a few on here seem to dislike such a gobby legend.

She seems ok so far.

[Jake.]

It’s 2018 and people can’t cope with a woman who used to live as a man, apparently

[Cal.]

WE LOVE a gobby legend!

[Daniel-X]

Already the best HM of all time.

[Eddie.]

Don't get the dislike for her besides Towelgate...

[Jamie89]

She seems alright, I'm sort of indifferent to her tbh, but it's only been 1 highlights so far

[Daniel-X]

India getting the members of TIBB pressed because she's brave and courageous, we LOVE a legend.

[Ant.]

I'm loving her so far :flutter:

[Babayaro.]

She's the 2nd best after Rachel, so I have no idea!

[chuff me dizzy]

I never noticed anyone was hating her either in the house or on here

[Peppermint]

It’s 2018 and people can’t cope with a woman who used to live as a man, apparently
...Or people just are not a fan of what they've seen so far.

She's personally my least favourite because she seems dull (Maggie closely following).

[Cherry Christmas]

Don't mind her so far, she will bring drama I expect, I don't get the she is not popular on here, give it a few days for people to choose a fav, its too early yet

[Jake.]

...Or people just are not a fan of what they've seen so far.

She's personally my least favourite because she seems dull (Maggie closely following).

I’m referring to those on social media who have been coming out with complete bile

[Cherry Christmas]

I’m referring to those on social media who have been coming out with complete bile

the OP refers to popularity "on here"

[Christmas Dynasnow]

I never noticed anyone was hating her either in the house or on here

nope, she just did not give ann her bed and looks like she might be bitchy is all


mind you there are a lot of itchy trigger fingers on here waiting to be outraged regarding comments about her..

:hehe:

[Jake.]

nope, she just did not give ann her bed and looks like she might be bitchy is all


mind you there are a lot of itchy trigger fingers on here waiting to be outraged regarding comments about her..

:hehe:

Comments such as “she’s a man”? Yeah. I couldn’t care less who does/doesn’t care for India as a housemate, why would I?

[Nicky91]

i don't mind her in the house tbh, she seems intelligent and nice


at least better than Ashley

[bots]

I don't know her so I can't make a judgement yet.

In the first day of I'm a celeb, i didn't take to the eventual winner, but by the end of the series I was one of her biggest fans. That's the way it goes, and the way it should be. We have the right to like or dislike someone for whatever reason we see fit. Whether its because they have a Scottish accent, are short, fat, thin, too tall, blonde, green or whatever.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Comments such as “she’s a man”? Yeah. I couldn’t care less who does/doesn’t care for India as a housemate, why would I?

One members opinion differs from your opinion, i am pretty confident you will accept this and move on

Leave the modding to the mods

:)

[Livia]

I don't dislike India. I think she's very brave and I support her totally in living a happy life as the person she is. However, she is on an "all-female" show when she is actually a trans woman.

[Jake.]

I don't dislike India. I think she's very brave and I support her totally in living a happy life as the person she is. However, she is on an "all-female" show when she is actually a trans woman.

Should people who have an issue with this not aim their feelings towards production, instead of India as a person (not referring to yourself obviously, more the likes on Twitter)?

[chuff me dizzy]

nope, she just did not give ann her bed and looks like she might be bitchy is all


mind you there are a lot of itchy trigger fingers on here waiting to be outraged regarding comments about her..

:hehe:

2 Faced ,in front of everyone in the bedroom when Ann had left she was bitching about her,then went into the kitchen creeping up her backside

[Livia]

Should people who have an issue with this not aim their feelings towards production, instead of India as a person (not referring to yourself obviously, more the likes on Twitter)?

Yes, maybe they should. Maybe if they made the distinction that she is a trans woman I for one would be happy to see her integrated with the other women. It's the insistence that she is exactly the same as me that I object to. As a born female I've been through things she could never know in the same way she's also been through things I could never know. We're different. That doesn't mean I don't consider her, or anyone else, an equal, regardless of their gender.

And for the record... the comments on Twitter are ****ing dispicable. But like I said, India's strong and I'm sure she's heard it all before.

[Kazanne]

Comments such as “she’s a man”? Yeah. I couldn’t care less who does/doesn’t care for India as a housemate, why would I?

Can she have a baby ?Oh and before you accuse me of being transphobic,I like 'her' :laugh:

[waterhog]

life is about acceptance -for us to be talking about india - shows there is a problem. shame on those who have problems with something someone is going through.

[Ant.]

Can she have a baby ?Oh and before you accuse me of being transphobic,I like 'her' :laugh:

You lose credibility with the quotes Kaz!

No she can't have a baby but neither can my nan. Is she not a woman?!

[Kazanne]

life is about acceptance -for us to be talking about india - shows there is a problem. shame on those who have problems with something someone is going through.

Some people are maybe curious about it,i think she has been accepted she seems reasonably nice some people just don't see her as a fully fledged woman,nowt wrong with that.

[Ant.]

Some people are maybe curious about it,i think she has been accepted she seems reasonably nice some people just don't see her as a fully fledged woman,nowt wrong with that.

... but how is there nothing wrong with that?

[Wizard.]

She’s not disliked she’s adored by the whole of the UK she’s gonna win!

[ChristmasNeeve]

I like India so far, bit early to really dislike anyone for me yet

[Nicky91]

She’s not disliked she’s adored by the whole of the UK she’s gonna win!

nah, i would give Amanda/Maggie more chances at winning then India, for now

[Jake.]

Can she have a baby ?Oh and before you accuse me of being transphobic,I like 'her' :laugh:

No, she can’t have a baby. She has transitioned to a woman and that’s how she wishes to live out her life. I give any person my upmost respect who can face up to being born in the wrong body, so referring to her as she wishes really isn’t a big deal for me.

[Kazanne]

... but how is there nothing wrong with that?

She has no womb,ovaries etc,which in my view a woman has but not a man.

[Kazanne]

No, she can’t have a baby. She has transitioned to a woman and that’s how she wishes to live out her life. I give any person my upmost respect who can face up to being born in the wrong body, so referring to her as she wishes really isn’t a big deal for me.

It isn't a big deal for most people,raging on about a few ignorant arseholes wont make things any better,good on 'her' as I said I like her but as Livia said as a female she isn't like me.Just because everyone doesn't see her as a fully fledged woman doesn't mean they hate her.

[-Sue-]

I never noticed anyone was hating her either in the house or on here
someone call 999 chuff's pants are on fire! did you not repost a hate post from katie hopkins about india? and sit back n watch the responses!? :shrug:

[bots]

No, she can’t have a baby. She has transitioned to a woman and that’s how she wishes to live out her life. I give any person my upmost respect who can face up to being born in the wrong body, so referring to her as she wishes really isn’t a big deal for me.

She is an individual, the same as you me or anyone else. She is entitled to the same respect as you, me or anyone else. What is this obsession with trying to pigeon hole people into any form of stereotype?

[Jake.]

It isn't a big deal for most people,raging on about a few ignorant arseholes wont make things any better,good on 'her' as I said I like her but as Livia said as a female she isn't like me.Just because everyone doesn't see her as a fully fledged woman doesn't mean they hate her.

I didn’t say they did? It’s my opinion and I’m obviously not a woman so I can’t see it from your side. I think as long as she’s referred to as she wishes, there isn’t an issue.

[Livia]

The strangest thing about all these discussions about India is that, I think most people on here kind of like her.

[Jake.]

She is an individual, the same as you me or anyone else. She is entitled to the same respect as you, me or anyone else. What is this obsession with trying to pigeon hole people into any form of stereotype?

When did I say she’s entitled to more respect than anyone else? She wishes to be referred to as “she”, which is what I’m doing. That’s it.

[Jake.]

The strangest thing about all these discussions about India is that, I think most people on here kind of like her.

I like her from what I’ve seen but then you can’t really dislike anybody after 1 hour of viewing.

[Kazanne]

I didn’t say they did? It’s my opinion and I’m obviously not a woman so I can’t see it from your side. I think as long as she’s referred to as she wishes, there isn’t an issue.

I think we on Tibb refer to her as a she.

[Jake.]

I think we on Tibb refer to her as a she.

Which is why I took issue with her being referred to as a man when she has stated she wishes to be referred to as a woman

[Livia]

I like her from what I’ve seen but then you can’t really dislike anybody after 1 hour of viewing.

Oh I don't know.... I'd made my mind up about Stephen Bear after about forty seconds.

[Jake.]

Oh I don't know.... I'd made my mind up about Stephen Bear after about forty seconds.

No that’s true, I take that back

[chuff me dizzy]

No, she can’t have a baby. She has transitioned to a woman and that’s how she wishes to live out her life. I give any person my upmost respect who can face up to being born in the wrong body, so referring to her as she wishes really isn’t a big deal for me.

It took him 50 YEARS to decide he was in the "wrong body" (what a stupid phrase)

[Jake.]

It took him 50 YEARS to decide he was in the "wrong body" (what a stupid phrase)

So what if it did?

[chuff me dizzy]

someone call 999 chuff's pants are on fire! did you not repost a hate post from katie hopkins about india? and sit back n watch the responses!? :shrug:

"Hate post" ? I thought it was a tweet and Katies opinion of India ?

[Livia]

It took him 50 YEARS to decide he was in the "wrong body" (what a stupid phrase)

I think it was more a case of taking 50 years to get to this point.

[Cal.]

Mess I think we do all actually like India despite all the drama.

[Livia]

Mess I think we do all actually like India despite all the drama.

I think so too.

[Jake.]

Mess I think we do all actually like India despite all the drama.

:joker: you’re right

[chuff me dizzy]

Mess I think we do all actually like India despite all the drama.

I liked her from BOTS, she's good fun and feisty, its all the pathetic "You've GOT to like her and call her a woman " **** on here that turns people off hm8s ,not the hm8s themselves

[Ant.]

It took him 50 YEARS to decide he was in the "wrong body" (what a stupid phrase)

I'm pretty sure she said she grew up knowing she was trans, so no, she knew she was in the 'wrong body' for a long time. ESPECIALLY when you consider the fact she finished her surgeries 2 years ago, and transitioning is a long process

[chuff me dizzy]

I'm pretty sure she said she grew up knowing she was trans, so no, she knew she was in the 'wrong body' for a long time. ESPECIALLY when you consider the fact she finished her surgeries 2 years ago, and transitioning is a long process

She married and had a son before deciding !!

[-Sue-]

"Hate post" ? I thought it was a tweet and Katies opinion of India ?

it was her opinion without your opinion..which you ONLY gave after members responded... we all know what that is...

[Tom4784]

She's one of my least favourites in there, seems quite combative and not in a fun way. I don't mind her too much though, there's not really anyone I really dislike in there atm.

[Ant.]

She married and had a son before deciding !!

She didn't 'decide' to be transgender. She decided to transition, yes, but it was either that or carry on living a lie and be miserable in the body she had

[Jake.]

I liked her from BOTS, she's good fun and feisty, its all the pathetic "You've GOT to like her and call her a woman " **** on here that turns people off hm8s ,not the hm8s themselves

Who’s said you’ve got to like her?

[chuff me dizzy]

it was her opinion without your opinion..which you ONLY gave after members responded... we all know what that is...

Yes "we"do it was a tweet from Katie Hopkins

[chuff me dizzy]

She didn't 'decide' to be transgender. She decided to transition, yes, but it was either that or carry on living a lie and be miserable in the body she had

It took her a bloody long time to decide she was living a lie

[Tom4784]

It took her a bloody long time to decide she was living a lie

Denial, fear of what it would mean for her family and herself. People stay closeted for many reasons, it doesn't mean that they one day decided to be who they are, it's just that they found the courage to admit it to themselves and others.

[Jake.]

It took her a bloody long time to decide she was living a lie

Can’t really blame her given the attitude towards her by people after finally finding the confidence/courage

[chuff me dizzy]

Denial, fear of what it would mean for her family and herself. People stay closeted for many reasons, it doesn't mean that they one day decided to be who they are, it's just that they found the courage to admit it to themselves and others.

If she knew she was in the wrong body she should have done something about it BEFORE she married and had a son, it makes a mockery of it all

[Jordan.]

If she knew she was in the wrong body she should have done something about it BEFORE she married and had a son, it makes a mockery of it all

I didn't know you knew her struggle, when did you transition?

[chuff me dizzy]

I didn't know you knew her struggle, when did you transition?

Im exactly as I was born

[Jamie89]

It took him 50 YEARS to decide he was in the "wrong body" (what a stupid phrase)

She's actually stated in an interview that she knew from around the age of 3. The 'decision' was to physically transition.

[Vicky.]

I wouldn't say I dislike india as such, but I do not particularly like them. Its only based on their ridiculous thoughts about stereotypes though tbh. Apparently women like me are disgusting, as I do not shave my legs all the time. Oh shock horror. More stereotypey stuff too, but thats the main one I remember, and this was before going in the house.

Hopefully India is a twat in there, they are definitely very argumentative from what I have seen of them. And I tend to end up liking the twats

[chuff me dizzy]

She's actually stated in an interview that she knew from around the age of 3. The 'decision' was to physically transition.

47 years later :idc: And I'm sorry but no 3 year old even realises what sexuality is nor should they

[Greg!]

Yes, maybe they should. Maybe if they made the distinction that she is a trans woman I for one would be happy to see her integrated with the other women. It's the insistence that she is exactly the same as me that I object to. As a born female I've been through things she could never know in the same way she's also been through things I could never know. We're different. That doesn't mean I don't consider her, or anyone else, an equal, regardless of their gender.

And for the record... the comments on Twitter are ****ing dispicable. But like I said, India's strong and I'm sure she's heard it all before.

Ok but why does it bother you that she's "different" from you and has has not had the same experiences as you. EVERYONE on planet earth is different from one another and have gone through different things. Would you say that women who can't have periods or are infertile aren't "real females"? OF COURSE NOT!! I'm sorry to say but your argument it absolutely ridiculous, pointless and nonsensical.

[Jamie89]

47 years later :idc: And I'm sorry but no 3 year old even realises what sexuality is nor should they

What does sexuality have to do with any of it?

[chuff me dizzy]

What does sexuality have to do with any of it?

She's changed sex ?

[Greg!]

She's changed sex ?

Sexuality and gender identity are completely separate things.

[Jamie89]

She's changed sex ?

...which has nothing to do with sexuality

[chuff me dizzy]

...which has nothing to do with sexuality

Load of BS but to please you I will change my wording ..... No 3 yr old has the capacity to think "Im in the wrong body"

[Greg!]

Load of BS but to please you I will change my wording ..... No 3 yr old has the capacity to think "Im in the wrong body"

It's not a load of BS; it is a fact. And yes they do.

[Jamie89]

Load of BS but to please you I will change my wording ..... No 3 yr old has the capacity to think "Im in the wrong body"

I mean it's not BS, it's meaning of words, but anyway, she's stated herself that she had those thoughts at around the age of 3, many transexual people actually state the same, and there's a lot of evidence to show that most children as young as 3 are aware of what gender is and what their own gender is.

[chuff me dizzy]

It's not a load of BS; it is a fact. And yes they do.

How many 3 yr olds have you had ? Children are sponges they take in what the parents are ramming down their necks daily ,I know that no 3 yr old even thinks about what body they are in be it the right one or "wrong one"

[chuff me dizzy]

I mean it's not BS, it's meaning of words, but anyway, she's stated herself that she had those thoughts at around the age of 3, many transexual people actually state the same, and there's a lot of evidence to show that most children as young as 3 are aware of what gender is and what their own gender is.

She can state what she likes it doesn't mean we all have to believe it

[Greg!]

How many 3 yr olds have you had ? Children are sponges they take in what the parents are ramming down their necks daily ,I know that no 3 yr old even thinks about what body they are in be it the right one or "wrong one"

I haven't had any kids sis but, believe it or not, I was actually a child myself once, and I remember knowing I was different somehow (i.e gay) when I was about 4. (which is slightly different from gender identity but hopefully you get my point.)

[Greg!]

She can state what she likes it doesn't mean we all have to believe it

Why would she lie? Why are you so convinced she's being dishonest?

[chuff me dizzy]

My son played with his sisters dolls and my daughter played with her brothers cars ,didn't make either of them in the "wrong body "or gay or lesbian ,it made them children playing !! Ive seen programmes where pushy parents have dressed TODDLERS in the opposite sex clothing claiming the toddlers are happier wearing them

[Jordan.]

My son played with his sisters dolls and my daughter played with her brothers cars ,didn't make either of them in the "wrong body "or gay or lesbian ,it made them children playing !! Ive seen programmes where pushy parents have dressed TODDLERS in the opposite sex clothing claiming the toddlers are happier wearing them

Your experiences don't equate to every person on earth

[Tom4784]

If she knew she was in the wrong body she should have done something about it BEFORE she married and had a son, it makes a mockery of it all

I think she was probably worried about being ostracised by the people she loved so she conformed to soceital norms out of fear of attitudes like yours. I assume she got to a point where she decided to didn't want to live a life half lived just to appease people who will never understand the struggle.

Load of BS but to please you I will change my wording ..... No 3 yr old has the capacity to think "Im in the wrong body"

Quite wrong.

My son played with his sisters dolls and my daughter played with her brothers cars ,didn't make either of them in the "wrong body "or gay or lesbian ,it made them children playing !! Ive seen programmes where pushy parents have dressed TODDLERS in the opposite sex clothing claiming the toddlers are happier wearing them

And none of that has anything to do with people suffering Gender Dysphoria, your straight cisgendered children's experience do not have anything in common with children who are transgender or are of a sexuality that isn't straight. They are not an example of it or proof that it does not exist in children. Your family experiences are not a benchmark that all cases of transgender children must be judged against.

There's power and understanding in empathy, try to see things from other perspectives every once in a while.

[chuff me dizzy]

Your experiences don't equate to every person on earth

Neither do your opinions

[Jordan.]

Neither do your opinions

Thanks I needed reminding about the basis of an opinion :worry:

[Withano]

Seems very confident. Maybe overconfident. That could get annoying. But I like her so far. Be difficult not to after 2 eps.

[RileyH]

I like her, just not as much as others

[Christmas Dynasnow]

I haven't had any kids sis but, believe it or not, I was actually a child myself once, and I remember knowing I was different somehow (i.e gay) when I was about 4. (which is slightly different from gender identity but hopefully you get my point.)

lol

what ? :joker:

you have regressed a later thought to that age

dont be ridiculous

[Gusto Brunt]

She's clearly very intelligent and won't take any sh**. So maybe that's why...

It’s 2018 and people can’t cope with a woman who used to live as a man, apparently

i wood agree. For some weird reason it annoys a lot of people, when it's none of their business really.

Taking Ann's bed for a start :nono:

:joker::joker::joker:

[Withano]

47 years later :idc: And I'm sorry but no 3 year old even realises what sexuality is nor should they

What does sexuality have to do with any of it?

She's changed sex ?

...which has nothing to do with sexuality

Load of BS but to please you I will change my wording ..... No 3 yr old has the capacity to think "Im in the wrong body"



:facepalm: would you actually be up for reading up on the basics, i'll provide links and everything.

[Greg!]

lol

what ? :joker:

you have regressed a later thought to that age

dont be ridiculous

What

[The Grinch]

Taking Ann's bed for a start :nono:

Wasn't her bed tough.

[Amy Jade]

lol

what ? :joker:

you have regressed a later thought to that age

dont be ridiculous

It's quite normal to recall thoughts from when you were a toddler, I remember vividly going to my Nan and Grandad's anniversary party and wearing a Mary Kate and Ashley dress and telling everyone about it at about 3 years old

[Vicky.]

It's quite normal to recall thoughts from when you were a toddler, I remember vividly going to my Nan and Grandad's anniversary party and wearing a Mary Kate and Ashley dress and telling everyone about it at about 3 years old

Well yes, some people remember stuff from being 3. However...literally the only difference between the sexes for a 3 year old is stereotypical stuff (well tbh, discounting biological differences even as adults the only differences are stereotypes). So to say you knew you were trans...because you did not like playing with trucks and liked sparkles or whatever is...dodgy.

Even more odd I am finding, is the claim that Greg knew he was gay aged 4 :umm2: A 4 year old does not, or should not, know anything about sexuality or seeing people in a sexual way.

[ethanjames]

I'm quite indifferent about her shes okay though.

[Ant.]

Not that I can speak for Greg, but when I was 4 I knew I was gay. It wasn't anything deep, I just thought the guys on my telly were cute!

[Vicky.]

Not that I can speak for Greg, but when I was 4 I knew I was gay. It wasn't anything deep, I just thought the guys on my telly were cute!

Thats so odd to me. I wonder if its me thats different and just assuming that I am 'normal'. Genuinely did not feel any kind of sexual attraction til I was maybe 12 or so. And it is making me feel a little ill considering that 4 year olds could be thinking in that way. My daughter is 5...am slightly worried as I do find that really strange

[Amy Jade]

I started school at 4 and had a boyfriend, perhaps Greg was in a similar situation but found himself liking boys...

[Gusto Brunt]

I must say I was not a fan of India showing us her legs last night.

Wrong side of 50 for that.

[Jamie89]

Well yes, some people remember stuff from being 3. However...literally the only difference between the sexes for a 3 year old is stereotypical stuff (well tbh, discounting biological differences even as adults the only differences are stereotypes). So to say you knew you were trans...because you did not like playing with trucks and liked sparkles or whatever is...dodgy.

Even more odd I am finding, is the claim that Greg knew he was gay aged 4 :umm2: A 4 year old does not, or should not, know anything about sexuality or seeing people in a sexual way.

It's not just about seeing people in a sexual way though, sex is part of it obviously but not the whole thing. Many gay people say they knew when they were children. I know I did, I don't think as young as 3 but definitely before I ever had any sexual thoughts.
Noone fully understands all there is to sexuality and transgender feelings so I don't think any of it being known at a young age can be fully ruled out based on the limited things we do know.

[Amy Jade]

Actually this reminds me of Secret Life of 4 Year Olds

There was a little boy who had no interest in the girls and got upset when the boy he played with got a girlfriend and even became withdrawn because of it, now if in 10 years time he turns out to be gay I would personally believe his reaction to the boy he was close to getting a girlfriend was a sign

[Withano]

Thats so odd to me. I wonder if its me thats different and just assuming that I am 'normal'. Genuinely did not feel any kind of sexual attraction til I was maybe 12 or so. And it is making me feel a little ill considering that 4 year olds could be thinking in that way. My daughter is 5...am slightly worried as I do find that really strange

(I'd imagine it was closer to romantic attraction than sexual attraction, but I'm on your page too).

[Vicky.]

I freaked myself out with the thought of kids having a sexuality when younger than my daughter. Have chilled myself out a little now

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/raina-bowe/can-a-12yearold-really-kn_b_8278146.html

Apparently average age 9-10. Could not find age for heterosexuality...but I guess there would never have been any studies done on that as..well why would they :laugh:

[Greg!]

Well yes, some people remember stuff from being 3. However...literally the only difference between the sexes for a 3 year old is stereotypical stuff (well tbh, discounting biological differences even as adults the only differences are stereotypes). So to say you knew you were trans...because you did not like playing with trucks and liked sparkles or whatever is...dodgy.

Even more odd I am finding, is the claim that Greg knew he was gay aged 4 :umm2: A 4 year old does not, or should not, know anything about sexuality or seeing people in a sexual way.

Well I did so.

[Ant.]

Thats so odd to me. I wonder if its me thats different and just assuming that I am 'normal'. Genuinely did not feel any kind of sexual attraction til I was maybe 12 or so. And it is making me feel a little ill considering that 4 year olds could be thinking in that way. My daughter is 5...am slightly worried as I do find that really strange

In some aspect I agree with you?

It wasn't as if I 'knew' - it was very much something I only came to terms with until I was like, what, 13??
It wasn't anything 'sexual', like "I want to kiss boys" (but I'll get to this point in a min!), it was just I always thought they were cuter than girls.
I don't know how this would make you feel, but when I was around 5? the boys in my class used to run around chasing girls trying to kiss them (I think the fact I backed out of that is also how I realised I was gay at such a young age)

A friend I made recently who I didn't grow up with said his mum told him she knew he was gay because he cried that, similar to how boys chased girls around when i grew up, boys chased the girls and tried to kiss them on his playground and he cried because the boys weren't trying to kiss him

[jaxie]

Well she wasn't very nice over the bed. I think she was quite selfish really. Ann is elderly and deserves a little consideration.

Also she is on a show celebrating women and she is not a woman she is a trans woman. I think many women will feel disappointed that once again women are pushed aside in favour of someone who was a man two years ago.

[Greg!]

listen Vicky I didn't even know what 'gay' meant when I was 4-5 OBVIOUSLY but I knew there was something different.

[Ant.]

listen Vicky I didn't even know what 'gay' meant when I was 4-5 OBVIOUSLY but I knew there was something different.

this

[Greg!]

And ew I didn't "see people in a sexual way" at age 4, I did NOT say that :skull:

[Vicky.]

listen Vicky I didn't even know what 'gay' meant when I was 4-5 OBVIOUSLY but I knew there was something different.

Well yes
And you are ewing at the idea of 'in a sexual way' but thats exactly what bloody sexuality is :laugh:

[Greg!]

I found guys attractive at a young age and not girls, it's not a hard concept to grasp!

[Ant.]

Well yes
And you are ewing at the idea of 'in a sexual way' but thats exactly what bloody sexuality is :laugh:

But to be fair, having romantic feelings/thinking guys are cute are on a different page to having sexual desires. You can feel romantic feelings without feeling sexual desires/feelings, and while 'romantic feelings' may not be the best way to describe how I felt towards my guy friend when I was 5, it's certainly more applicable than looking at him in a 'sexual way'

[Vicky.]

Even on attraction though..I felt no attraction to anyone til about 12 or older. Yes, attraction is a better way of putting it. But yeah, maybe its me who was a late developer or something. Just always thought that was 'normal' but it seems i am in the minority :laugh:

See these are the sort of conversations I want the housemates to have. Actual..interesting stuff. I think we will get it from the lineup too rather than 'omgz X fancies X, he is so hot' rubbish

[bots]

honestly think people are attributing affinity with what is to become sexual preference.

I mean, I remember as a kid where all the boys would be together, they were mates that got up to mischief, they were best buddies and were much closer than they were with girls. That doesn't make someone gay. Times change of course, but I don't see how a kid could distinguish that affinity and camaraderie with what would become sexual preference

[Alf]

What an influence those Tellytubbies was.

[Greg!]

honestly think people are attributing affinity with what is to become sexual preference.

I mean, I remember as a kid where all the boys would be together, they were mates that got up to mischief, they were best buddies and were much closer than they were with girls. That doesn't make someone gay. Times change of course, but I don't see how a kid could distinguish that affinity and camaraderie with a what would become sexual preference

I'm not on about that, I had literal crushes on some of me pals and some celebs when I was really young (but obvs didn't even know what it was!)

[Jamie89]

honestly think people are attributing affinity with what is to become sexual preference.

I mean, I remember as a kid where all the boys would be together, they were mates that got up to mischief, they were best buddies and were much closer than they were with girls. That doesn't make someone gay. Times change of course, but I don't see how a kid could distinguish that affinity and camaraderie with what would become sexual preference

I don't think it's that tbh. Friendships at school weren't really anything to do with it. Most of my friends were boys but I wasn't attracted to them, and most of those boys turned out straight. It's hard to explain though because I don't know what it is. It's not attraction in a sexual way and I think it's not an obvious thing, the only thing that really makes it obvious is that it's directed towards boys not girls and that's why it stands out, because from a very age you're taught that that's not normal, so whatever it is maybe young straight people do feel it too it just doesn't stand out to them because it's in line with what they consider to be normal, there's no reason for it to alarm them or for them to even really notice it.

[Greg!]

I don't think it's that tbh. Friendships at school weren't really anything to do with it. Most of my friends were boys but I wasn't attracted to them, and most of those boys turned out straight. It's hard to explain though because I don't know what it is. It's not attraction in a sexual way and I think it's not an obvious thing, the only thing that really makes it obvious is that it's directed towards boys not girls and that's why it stands out, because from a very age you're taught that that's not normal, so whatever it is maybe young straight people do feel it too it just doesn't stand out to them because it's in line with what they consider to be normal, there's no reason for it to alarm them?

Omg yes this. You've articulated it perfectly

[jaxie]

Well yes, some people remember stuff from being 3. However...literally the only difference between the sexes for a 3 year old is stereotypical stuff (well tbh, discounting biological differences even as adults the only differences are stereotypes). So to say you knew you were trans...because you did not like playing with trucks and liked sparkles or whatever is...dodgy.

Even more odd I am finding, is the claim that Greg knew he was gay aged 4 :umm2: A 4 year old does not, or should not, know anything about sexuality or seeing people in a sexual way.

I'm with you here. No child as young as three and four even understands what sexuality is. Let alone knows anything about their own.

[jaxie]

It's quite interesting that it seems all those arguing it is wrong not to accept India as a fully fledged woman and not a trans woman are all boys.

I think she has every right to live how she wants. I'll even call her she for the sake of her personal happiness but she isn't the same as me and the point is the show is saying she is. They even have two x chromosones in the intro ffs

[Candy Annie Cane]

I don't think it's that tbh. Friendships at school weren't really anything to do with it. Most of my friends were boys but I wasn't attracted to them, and most of those boys turned out straight. It's hard to explain though because I don't know what it is. It's not attraction in a sexual way and I think it's not an obvious thing, the only thing that really makes it obvious is that it's directed towards boys not girls and that's why it stands out, because from a very age you're taught that that's not normal, so whatever it is maybe young straight people do feel it too it just doesn't stand out to them because it's in line with what they consider to be normal, there's no reason for it to alarm them or for them to even really notice it.

But who told you it was not normal when you were that young? At that age, most thought processes are taught or learned behaviours. My son is 7, I have gay friends and straight friends, he doesnt think anyone is normal and others abnormal. No one has ever told him that being in love with someone of the same sex is abnormal so he doesnt think it. I think its awful that at that age you thought any thoughts or feelings you had were perceived abnormal

[Jamie89]

It's quite interesting that it seems all those arguing it is wrong not to accept India as a fully fledged woman and not a trans woman are all boys.

I think she has every right to live how she wants. I'll even call her she for the sake of her personal happiness but she isn't the same as me and the point is the show is saying she is. They even have two x chromosones in the intro ffs

There have been female members on here who have also argued for acceptance of India as a woman (and noone is saying she shouldn't be considered a trans woman, the argument is that a trans woman is also a woman, and none of that means anyone is saying she is the same as a non trans woman)

But who told you it was not normal when you were that young? At that age, most thought processes are taught or learned behaviours. My son is 7, I have gay friends and straight friends, he doesnt think anyone is normal and others abnormal. No one has ever told him that being in love with someone of the same sex is abnormal so he doesnt think it. I think its awful that at that age you thought any thoughts or feelings you had were perceived abnormal

It's not an explicit thing, it's just from what you see around you, whether it's man/woman relationships in cartoons, or things that you pick up on, like I remember losing a tooth and my grandma saying jokingly 'have you been kissing the girls'... (not sure if that's a usual phrase? :laugh: ) it's just little things in society that reaffirm a norm of male/female relationships and children do have an awareness of those things. Children are very much brought up to be straight imo, if that wasn't the case there would be no 'coming out'.

Just to add: it could of course be different for your son and many other people, I'm not saying it's the same for everyone and there are probably gay people who don't know their sexuality as a child, or ones that do and don't feel abnormal, I was just referring to my own experience and feelings about it based on my own environment and I didn't view being gay as normal as a child based on those things.

[Greg!]

But who told you it was not normal when you were that young?

Constant heteronormative narratives in movies, TV shows, books, music etc and society in general? Which is why theres such a big deal made over LGBT representation in kids' shows nowadays for example.

[y.winter]

I believe it's obvious that she comes with a different "baggage" to an all-female series, in a very unapologetic way - therefore people's concerns/strong feeling about trans resurfaces. The theme of this series turns on a big fat spotlight on the fact that she's trans. I guess that's what happens on social network, which is normally filled with bigoted keyboard bullies. I guess the bed situation with Ann didn't help her either, and I didn't even read what people on twitter say.

I don't have strong feelings about her. I'm more keen on other housemates, and tbh she feels like a mid-way evictee (Gail Porter-ish).