India - put it away luv

[Christmas Dynasnow]

boak

Is it me or is she or the prods trying to shove her palid naked body at us in every bloody scene?

and as for that "dress" she wore last night at the table, jesus wept

I guess you cant buy style..


http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/01/05/00/47C4AE6B00000578-0-Slammed_Ann_Widdecombe_found_herself_criticised_by _viewers_as_sh-a-67_1515110939689.jpghttp://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/01/04/11/47BCF7F200000578-0-Playful_Revealing_her_metallic_bikini_top_and_posi ng_in_front_of-m-38_1515064239954.jpg

[waterhog]

you got to understand what she has gone through and LT - india is unaware of what CBB will show of her - she is not choosing to show them clips.

[chuff me dizzy]

If I hear the word "Transition" one more bloody time my tv screen is through ,and to think TAXPAYERS money in an already crumbling NHS paid for the op when people with cancer and heart problems can't get their operations ,and if after all this TAXPAYERS money has been spent and the result was what we can see i would say its been wasted :rant:

[Christmas Dynasnow]

you got to understand what she has gone through and LT - india is unaware of what CBB will show of her - she is not choosing to show them clips.

she chose that vile dress with half her guts hanging out and she chooses how to walk around in the house. She also knows she is on camera.

I dont see Ann doing this?

[waterhog]

has ann has the trauma india has been through ? point made.

[chuff me dizzy]

has ann has the trauma india has been through ? point made.

Trauma ? Get a grip love ,being told you have cancer or you are terminably ill is a trauma

[waterhog]

not even going to try and explain chuff - have to agree to disagree.

[chuff me dizzy]

not even going to try and explain chuff - have to agree to disagree.

No please don't bother trying to explain as you will never change my opinion and views

[Christmas Dynasnow]

has ann has the trauma india has been through ? point made.

yes, ann has had one romance in her whole life, she wanted children and love but probably due to her shyness and upbringing she denied herself that and focussed on her politics. she seems every bit a tortured soul as India

[Christmas Dynasnow]

I must say I am surprised that procedure is on the NHS bearing in mind what is going on with it..

[chuff me dizzy]

I must say I am surprised that procedure is on the NHS bearing in mind what is going on with it..

I was bloody livid never mind surprised, he was working,had a good job and if he decided he wanted a change he should have damn well paid for it, same as i think anyone wanting any type of cosmetic surgery should

[jaxie]

has ann has the trauma india has been through ? point made.

I think you are doing Ann a great disservice saying that hog. She wanted children but never had them. She has worked as a woman in a very male dominant world probably early on against a great deal of struggle and prejudice.

Are you implying that only people who choose to change gender feel trauma? :nono:

[Gusto Brunt]

Sorry but the legs, I don't want to see on a daily basis...

[chuff me dizzy]

Anyone else spotted the bald patch on the back of her head when she's got her hair in a pony tail ?

[Gusto Brunt]

Anyone else spotted the bald patch on the back of her head when she's got her hair in a pony tail ?

Looked more like thinning but yes I did. But isn't having no testicles a 'cure' for baldness, so she really shouldn't have any male pattern hair loss.

[bots]

Looked more like thinning but yes I did. But isn't having no testicles a 'cure' for baldness, so she really shouldn't have any male pattern hair loss.

when your hair follicles have been dead for a few months, there is no recovering them, despite all the supposed cures.

Baldness is related to testosterone levels in men, and if she still has testosterone, she can still go bald.

[Gusto Brunt]

when your hair follicles have been dead for a few months, there is no recovering them, despite all the supposed cures.

Baldness is related to testosterone levels in men, and if she still has testosterone, she can still go bald.

Then the doctors need to boost the female hormones.

[Kazanne]

I must say I am surprised that procedure is on the NHS bearing in mind what is going on with it..

Yes,I was shocked I would have thought that would be a private op.

[Northern Monkey]

Oh Christ, gives me a hard off

[chuff me dizzy]

Then the doctors need to boost the female hormones.

Only if she's paying private for them

[Rob!]

Anyone else spotted the bald patch on the back of her head when she's got her hair in a pony tail ?

No but then I’m not trying to find fault with her just because she’s transgendered :)

[Babayaro.]

If I hear the word "Transition" one more bloody time my tv screen is through ,and to think TAXPAYERS money in an already crumbling NHS paid for the op when people with cancer and heart problems can't get their operations ,and if after all this TAXPAYERS money has been spent and the result was what we can see i would say its been wasted :rant:
A tad of an overreaction. :)

[chuff me dizzy]

A tad of a overreaction. :)

Tell that to the people who have to wait in the queue for theatre time for medical operations ,while the surgeons time is spent on her ego

[Babayaro.]

Tell that to the people who have to wait in the queue for theatre time for medical operations ,while the surgeons time is spent on her ego

You're looking into it all way too much, I'm afraid

[chuff me dizzy]

You're looking into it all way too much, I'm afraid

I dont think so

[Smithy]

Tell that to the people who have to wait in the queue for theatre time for medical operations ,while the surgeons time is spent on her ego

I dont think so

This is such a dumb argument, you’re not going to have have a surgeon who specialises in gender reassignment, removing brain tumours or doing hip replacements, that’s not what they’re trained for, what’s the issue?

[chuff me dizzy]

This is such a dumb argument, you’re not going to have have a surgeon who specialises in gender reassignment, removing brain tumours or doing hip replacements, that’s not what they’re trained for, what’s the issue?

Taxpayers money being used for vanity ,massive issue

[Jamie89]

If a transsexual person can't afford gender reassignment surgery it should be available on the NHS. It's not a persons fault that they are transsexual, it's not a decision they make, not correcting it can lead to severe mental problems and suicide attempts. If treatment is possible for them I think it's cruel to deny it.
However if somebody is financially well off and can afford the treatment without using NHS funds then yes paying for it themselves would be ideal.

[Babayaro.]

It's not vanity ffs

[Christmas Dynasnow]

The mirror running a story saying BB are objectifying India as she is the only one they are showing topless

[chuff me dizzy]

It's not vanity ffs

Its not medical therefore shouldn't be done on NHS

[chuff me dizzy]

The mirror running a story saying BB are objectifying India as she is the only one they are showing topless

:yuk: Not a pretty sight

[Babayaro.]

Its not medical therefore shouldn't be done on NHS

It's not medical? How else do you expect someone to make the change from a man to a woman?

[chuff me dizzy]

It's not medical? How else do you expect someone to make the change from a man to a woman?

Its not medical, its a personal choice,therefore should be paid for by the person involved and not the taxpayer

[Christmas Dynasnow]

The problem is we only have her word for it that she wants to be a woman as there is no scientific way we can prove this, like say a worn hip joint. So its very based on trust rather than medical evidence.

Unless I have that wrong, which is possible?

Also now if you want the snip you may now not get it (saw this on that doc prog this week) until you try all other means of contraception! So you cant get the snip but you can get the chop !

[Jamie89]

The problem is we only have her word for it that she wants to be a woman as there is no scientific way we can prove this, like say a worn hip joint. So its very based on trust rather than medical evidence.

Unless I have that wrong, which is possible?

Also now if you want the snip you may now not get it (saw this on that doc prog this week) until you try all other means of contraception! So you cant get the snip but you can get the chop !

Why would somebody have a sex change if they are not transsexual?

[bots]

Why would somebody have a sex change if they are not transsexual?

attention seeking would be at least one reason. I know people go though stringent evaluations, but it's not the first time someone has been fooled.

[Babayaro.]

NOT the attention seeking claims :skull:

[Jamie89]

attention seeking would be at least one reason. I know people go though stringent evaluations, but it's not the first time someone has been fooled.

I can't imagine anyone having their genitals removed for attention seeking reasons :worry: unless of course there was something very wrong psychologically, but being so extreme I think that would be quite easy to spot for a trained professional. India especially doesn't seem unstable or that she has extreme psychological problems.

[Livia]

has ann has the trauma india has been through ? point made.

Has India been through the same Trauma as Ann? No. She didn't grow up as a woman, fighting prejudice and discrimination especially when Ann grew up. India grew up as a man with all the advantages that brings. And she is still a newsreader. A job she acquired years ago when she was a man.

She has a teenage son who she has admitted is struggling with her transition and she thought the best way to tackle that was to go on to CBB and wander around wearing next to nothing. I am tired of looking at her partially naked body. She is an attention seeker and I don't think she's going to be any kind of help to the transgender community because she's self-absorbed and obnoxious.

[reece(:]

NOT the attention seeking claims :skull:

A lost cause at this point!

[Livia]

The thing is, she IS an attention seeker. She was probably an attention seeker when she was a man. They didn't alter her personality.

Furthermore, calling someone WHO IS ON CELEBRITY BIG BROTHER an attention seeker is, I think, a fair claim, whatever their gender.

[Jamie89]

The thing is, she IS an attention seeker. She was probably an attention seeker when she was a man. They didn't alter her personality.

Yes, as a lot of people are, but attention seeking isn't the reason she will have had a sex change operation, which is the point being made.

[Jamie89]

I don't think anyone would deny that BB contestants are attention seeking :laugh:

[bots]

Yes, as a lot of people are, but attention seeking isn't the reason she will have had a sex change operation, which is the point being made.

That can only be an assumption from either side as no-one can prove it, which was LT's original point.

[Livia]

Yes, as a lot of people are, but attention seeking isn't the reason she will have had a sex change operation, which is the point being made.

I was referring to the fact that I had called her an attention seeker. And she is.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

that repulsive dress the other night rather defeats the "not an attention seeker claims"






:skull:

[Nicky91]

I don't think anyone would deny that BB contestants are attention seeking :laugh:

some are more attention seeking than others but they all want attention indeed :thumbs:

[Livia]

This is such a dumb argument, you’re not going to have have a surgeon who specialises in gender reassignment, removing brain tumours or doing hip replacements, that’s not what they’re trained for, what’s the issue?

You've heard the NHS is struggling at the moment?

[Jamie89]

I was referring to the fact that I had called her an attention seeker. And she is.

Oh ok, I thought you were commenting on the previous posts about her attention seeking being a possible reason for her transitioning.

That can only be an assumption from either side as no-one can prove it, which was LT's original point.

Well no I can't prove it, I don't know anything about the assessments India has had, I just consider it extremely unlikely and it puzzles me why someone would believe that side over the other side because it makes so much more sense to me.

[Livia]

Oh ok, I thought you were commenting on the previous posts about her attention seeking being a possible reason for her transitioning.



I said she is an attention and she was probably an attention seeker when she was a man... and that her personality will be much the same now as then. I just don't like her, and that has nothing to do with her gender.

[bots]

Oh ok, I thought you were commenting on the previous posts about her attention seeking being a possible reason for her transitioning.



Well no I can't prove it, I don't know anything about the assessments India has had, I just consider it extremely unlikely and it puzzles me why someone would believe that side over the other side because it makes so much more sense to me.

the difference is that believing or not does enter into the equation where other critical NHS procedures are based on hard fact and evidence. Like it or not NHS services will always have to be prioritised and as such there will always be negative voices raised when something cannot be proven in black and white terms.

I don't set the priorities, but I can fully understand those that are waiting on life dependent treatment questioning priorities.

[Candy Annie Cane]

I can understand people being seriously pissed off about NHS treatments for non life saving treatments when they have to enter a postcode lottery to get life saving cancer drugs and NHS resources are stretched to the limits. I don't think everyone who has gender reassignment will get it on the NHS - bit like IVF treatment I would imagine there are pretty stringent criteria and very much Health Authority dependent. I have a friend who has needed a breast reduction for years - she is in constant and dibilitating pain but it has been deemed "non essential" and cosmetic although they agree is has caused irreversible curvature of her spine.

[Jamie89]

I said she is an attention and she was probably an attention seeker when she was a man... and that her personality will be much the same now as then. I just don't like her, and that has nothing to do with her gender.

I know I get that now :laugh: It's because it came right in the middle of comments being made about attention seeking being a possible reason for her to claim to be a transsexual/have a sex change... crossed wires.

the difference is that believing or not does enter into the equation where other critical NHS procedures are based on hard fact and evidence. Like it or not NHS services will always have to be prioritised and as such there will always be negative voices raised when something cannot be proven in black and white terms.

I don't set the priorities, but I can fully understand those that are waiting on life dependent treatment questioning priorities.

I suppose I just disagree with that. It's impossible for a transsexual person to prove that they are indeed transsexual, and yet they are people in my view who require medical assistance. Not doing anything for them can be severely harmful and I think the NHS should support people like that as well as others who are able to prove they need help through it being physically obvious. They are required to go to lengths in order to be approved for treatment and I'm not really sure what else could be expected of them... unless we just leave them. And the way I see it the only justification I would be able to make for just leaving them, would be if they were potentially lying about being transsexual, and I can't get my head around that way of thinking at all.

[odd sock]

Has India been through the same Trauma as Ann? No. She didn't grow up as a woman, fighting prejudice and discrimination especially when Ann grew up. India grew up as a man with all the advantages that brings. And she is still a newsreader. A job she acquired years ago when she was a man.

She has a teenage son who she has admitted is struggling with her transition and she thought the best way to tackle that was to go on to CBB and wander around wearing next to nothing. I am tired of looking at her partially naked body. She is an attention seeker and I don't think she's going to be any kind of help to the transgender community because she's self-absorbed and obnoxious.:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Gusto Brunt]

that repulsive dress the other night rather defeats the "not an attention seeker claims"






:skull:

The dress would have looked awful on anyone. Man, woman, or beast.

[chuff me dizzy]

Has India been through the same Trauma as Ann? No. She didn't grow up as a woman, fighting prejudice and discrimination especially when Ann grew up. India grew up as a man with all the advantages that brings. And she is still a newsreader. A job she acquired years ago when she was a man.

She has a teenage son who she has admitted is struggling with her transition and she thought the best way to tackle that was to go on to CBB and wander around wearing next to nothing. I am tired of looking at her partially naked body. She is an attention seeker and I don't think she's going to be any kind of help to the transgender community because she's self-absorbed and obnoxious.

:clap1::clap1: Im sick of hearing that she's brave ( did she run in a burning house to rescue a baby ? No she didn't ) she had trauma, (so have cancer patients who have had their benefits stopped and been made to take a job) has she ever lived a life where she cannot pay her bills and lost her home ? No she hasn't, she's CHOSEN to swap sex at the age of 50 ,clearly upsetting her son ... She a selfish person who has put herself before her child, she's knows nothing of real trauma

[chuff me dizzy]

I can understand people being seriously pissed off about NHS treatments for non life saving treatments when they have to enter a postcode lottery to get life saving cancer drugs and NHS resources are stretched to the limits. I don't think everyone who has gender reassignment will get it on the NHS - bit like IVF treatment I would imagine there are pretty stringent criteria and very much Health Authority dependent. I have a friend who has needed a breast reduction for years - she is in constant and dibilitating pain but it has been deemed "non essential" and cosmetic although they agree is has caused irreversible curvature of her spine.

She said last night she had it done on the NHS

[reece(:]

She a selfish person who has put herself before her child, she's knows nothing of real trauma
welp

She can choose to live her life as she wishes

[chuff me dizzy]

welp

She can choose to live her life as she wishes

Yes she can ,as long as she damn well pays for the pleasure

[Livia]

welp

She can choose to live her life as she wishes

And we can all judge her like Judy for disregarding the feelings and wellbeing of her son and sticking herself on telly.

[Jamie89]

:clap1::clap1: Im sick of hearing that she's brave ( did she run in a burning house to rescue a baby ? No she didn't ) she had trauma, (so have cancer patients who have had their benefits stopped and been made to take a job) has she ever lived a life where she cannot pay her bills and lost her home ? No she hasn't, she's CHOSEN to swap sex at the age of 50 ,clearly upsetting her son ... She a selfish person who has put herself before her child, she's knows nothing of real trauma

Yes lot's of people have experienced trauma, it's not a competition.

Waterhog clearly only used Ann as a comparison on the basis of India's trauma being to do with issues relating to her body, and the question being asked of why Ann doesn't view or show her body in the same way as India does. It was a perfectly reasonable comment based on the comparison already made and wasn't meant to take anything away from Ann's experiences or cancer patients!

[Vicky.]

I can understand people being seriously pissed off about NHS treatments for non life saving treatments when they have to enter a postcode lottery to get life saving cancer drugs and NHS resources are stretched to the limits. I don't think everyone who has gender reassignment will get it on the NHS - bit like IVF treatment I would imagine there are pretty stringent criteria and very much Health Authority dependent. I have a friend who has needed a breast reduction for years - she is in constant and dibilitating pain but it has been deemed "non essential" and cosmetic although they agree is has caused irreversible curvature of her spine.

Its so wrong how so many treatments are basically a postcode lottery.

I don't think cosmetic surgery should be available on the NHS. I have needed a breast reduction since being about 14 and it used to seriously piss me off how I was told no yet one of my friends managed to get a breast enlargement on the NHS. Mine was for health reasons, hers was purely cosmetic. Though I do think reconstructions after mastectomies should be available.

I think being mad at the people who get treatments on the NHS is the wrong way to go though. Its not their fault that people are denied lifesaving treatment under the guise of funding being too low, whilst others are getting non-essential treatments. There needs to be a clear system in place, not changed by where you live, not pot luck...and finally, the NHS needs more ****ing funding fullstop. I do think NHS treatments should be stuff thats actually NEEDED (such as chemo) rather than wanted though, whilst funding is so low. Anything non-essential should just be done when there is the time/money rather than being prioritized and if people don't like the waiting lists, they can go private. There are actually pushes going on right now from an extremist group that advise the government (!) to say 'sex changes' are classed as essential and should be prioritized. Whilst at the same time saying that mental health help for people 'trapped in the wrong body' is 'transphobic'. Healing the mind first would make so much sense. Noone knows what the actual effects of long term hormones and such are (especially in kids) and I think so much more research needs to be going into stuff like this,m along with research into detransitioners.

Edit. heres the 'manifesto'. Makes seriously bonkers reading.

https://edinburghath.tumblr.com/post/163521055802/trans-health-manifesto

ATH advise the government on law changes to do with trans matters. They are very clearly an extremist group, and just ridiculous self centred arseholes. Quite why anyone takes them seriously I do not know. But people clearly do. They also defend and even encourage violence.

[Tinsel Toes]

Has India been through the same Trauma as Ann? No. She didn't grow up as a woman, fighting prejudice and discrimination especially when Ann grew up. India grew up as a man with all the advantages that brings. And she is still a newsreader. A job she acquired years ago when she was a man.

She has a teenage son who she has admitted is struggling with her transition and she thought the best way to tackle that was to go on to CBB and wander around wearing next to nothing. I am tired of looking at her partially naked body. She is an attention seeker and I don't think she's going to be any kind of help to the transgender community because she's self-absorbed and obnoxious.

Yes i agree , where is her understanding of her son, getting yer tits out at every opportunity is hardly going to repair a fractured relationship - this is all about her getting airtime - god knows why but its certainly not about her son.

[chuff me dizzy]

Yes lot's of people have experienced trauma, it's not a competition.

Waterhog clearly only used Ann as a comparison on the basis of India's trauma being to do with issues relating to her body, and the question being asked of why Ann doesn't view or show her body in the same way as India does. It was a perfectly reasonable comment based on the comparison already made and wasn't meant to take anything away from Ann's experiences or cancer patients!

India CHOSES to show her body

[Babayaro.]

:clap1::clap1: Im sick of hearing that she's brave ( did she run in a burning house to rescue a baby ? No she didn't ) she had trauma, (so have cancer patients who have had their benefits stopped and been made to take a job) has she ever lived a life where she cannot pay her bills and lost her home ? No she hasn't, she's CHOSEN to swap sex at the age of 50 ,clearly upsetting her son ... She a selfish person who has put herself before her child, she's knows nothing of real trauma

All of this is absolutely ridiculous. Deary me.

[Jamie89]

India CHOSES to show her bodyYes? :conf: what does that have to do with what I said?

[Vicky.]

I would be happy having even half the confidence India appears to have tbh.

[Amy Jade]

I think it's great she is so body confident and she looks fabulous, her dress for entering was cute.

[Smithy]

Taxpayers money being used for vanity ,massive issue
It’s not vanity wtaf if wrong with you :umm2: you seriously need to educate yourself on transgender issues, you’re seriously embarrassing yourself
You've heard the NHS is struggling at the moment?

Not relevant

[Rustic bauble]

Has India been through the same Trauma as Ann? No. She didn't grow up as a woman, fighting prejudice and discrimination especially when Ann grew up. India grew up as a man with all the advantages that brings. And she is still a newsreader. A job she acquired years ago when she was a man.

She has a teenage son who she has admitted is struggling with her transition and she thought the best way to tackle that was to go on to CBB and wander around wearing next to nothing. I am tired of looking at her partially naked body. She is an attention seeker and I don't think she's going to be any kind of help to the transgender community because she's self-absorbed and obnoxious.


Totally agree with that Livia..

[Livia]

I would be happy having even half the confidence India appears to have tbh.

Yes... her confidence is quite unbelievable, especially with so many mirrors around. I have to say, and I don't mean this as an insult but as statement of fact... she has the bodyshape of a man.

[Livia]

Not relevant

Really? I wonder what a cancer patient being denied life-saving treatment would say. Unless you are of the belief that someone with gender issues is worth more than other people.

[Smithy]

Really? I wonder what a cancer patient being denied life-saving treatment would say. Unless you are of the belief that someone with gender issues is worth more than other people.

So a gender reassignment surgeon is meant to provide cancer treatment are they? Because being a doctor or someone of the medical profession is all the same thing isn’t it?

[Vicky.]

Its not the surgeons, its the funding fullstop.

[Kazanne]

Yes... her confidence is quite unbelievable, especially with so many mirrors around. I have to say, and I don't mean this as an insult but as statement of fact... she has the bodyshape of a man.

Yes she has no denying that, looks quite butch at times.

[Babayaro.]

Transgender woman in still having male features shock :shocked:

[Greg!]

Transgender woman in still having male features shock :shocked:

Wow who knew

[Rustic bauble]

Yes i agree , where is her understanding of her son, getting yer tits out at every opportunity is hardly going to repair a fractured relationship - this is all about her getting airtime - god knows why but its certainly not about her son.

...what other 50 year old would do that? She entered the house a demure looking woman...shame she can't behave like a respectable 50 year old and more than anything consider the impact on her son....wearing gold skimpy bikinis and walking around naked...she is acting like a 24 year old diva...shame really.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

...what other 50 year old would do that? She entered the house a demure looking woman...shame she can't behave like a respectable 50 year old and more than anything consider the impact on her son....wearing gold skimpy bikinis and walking around naked...she is acting like a 24 year old diva...shame really.

But i think as people have said she still has male features like frame, hands and feet and to some extent a male mind and if she had a female mind she would be a little more demure?

[Tinsel Toes]

...what other 50 year old would do that? She entered the house a demure looking woman...shame she can't behave like a respectable 50 year old and more than anything consider the impact on her son....wearing gold skimpy bikinis and walking around naked...she is acting like a 24 year old diva...shame really.

Yes exactly - her son must be totally cringing at her behaviour and i think she will live to regret it sadly. All that posing in the sauna was completely uncalled for, nevermind the vile bikini choice.

[chuff me dizzy]

So a gender reassignment surgeon is meant to provide cancer treatment are they? Because being a doctor or someone of the medical profession is all the same thing isn’t it?

All the money comes out of the same pot, so money wasted on Indias whim is taken from cancer patients

[Jamie89]

...what other 50 year old would do that? She entered the house a demure looking woman...shame she can't behave like a respectable 50 year old and more than anything consider the impact on her son....wearing gold skimpy bikinis and walking around naked...she is acting like a 24 year old diva...shame really.

She doesn't have the same life experiences as most 50 year old woman (as gets frequently pointed as a reason for her to not be considered a woman), so I'm not sure why she would be expected to fit a stereotypical behaviour of 50 year old women? Or why anyone should have to fit a stereotypical behaviour tbh

[chuff me dizzy]

She doesn't have the same life experiences as most 50 year old woman (as gets frequently pointed as a reason for her to not be considered a woman), so I'm not sure why she would be expected to fit a stereotypical behaviour of 50 year old women? Or why anyone should have to fit a stereotypical behaviour tbh

How do you know that ? she has had the same life experience of most 50 yr olds ,according to her and some folk on here she KNEW age 3 (Yes folks age THREE) she was a girl, so all her life until the op (paid for by the taxpayer) she should have thought and acted as a female if she didn't then she's a liar

[Jamie89]

How do you know that ? she has had the same life experience of most 50 yr olds ,according to her and some folk on here she KNEW age 3 (Yes folks age THREE) she was a girl, so all her life until the op (paid for by the taxpayer) she should have thought and acted as a female if she didn't then she's a liarLife experience includes how people treat you and not just how you feel. And women and men get treated very differently by society.

It's quite common for people who transition at an older age to experience a sort of 'rebirth' and make up for a lost youth in way, although that's a generalisation, but I can sort of see that in India a bit.

[Vicky.]

But i think as people have said she still has male features like frame, hands and feet and to some extent a male mind and if she had a female mind she would be a little more demure?

Because all women are demure? :suspect:

Have been so many women on BB over the years who are older and still exhibitionists. Denise Welch is probably the first that springs to mind tbh :laugh:

[chuff me dizzy]

Life experience includes how people treat you and not just how you feel. And women and men get treated very differently by society.

It's quite common for people who transition at an older age to experience a sort of 'rebirth' and make up for a lost youth in way, although that's a generalisation, but I can sort of see that in India a bit.

Naah spare it love, I'm not interested in India or her "transition" Ive had it up to my back teeth

[Jamie89]

Naah spare it love, I'm not interested in India or her "transition" Ive had it up to my back teethOk well you did ask [emoji23]

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Because all women are demure? :suspect:

Have been so many women on BB over the years who are older and still exhibitionists. Denise Welch is probably the first that springs to mind tbh :laugh:

But Denise had a sense of humour so could get away with it.

[Rustic bauble]

She doesn't have the same life experiences as most 50 year old woman (as gets frequently pointed as a reason for her to not be considered a woman), so I'm not sure why she would be expected to fit a stereotypical behaviour of 50 year old women? Or why anyone should have to fit a stereotypical behaviour tbh


she doesn't need any life experience to know how to behave. She isn't a stupid person....but she won't gain any public respect if she carries on behaving like a chav....and she's not making anything easier for her son.

[Rob!]

Naah spare it love, I'm not interested in India or her "transition" Ive had it up to my back teeth

Take them out then :hee:

[Rustic bauble]

Life experience includes how people treat you and not just how you feel. And women and men get treated very differently by society.

It's quite common for people who transition at an older age to experience a sort of 'rebirth' and make up for a lost youth in way, although that's a generalisation, but I can sort of see that in India a bit.


That's fine...but maybe don't do it on NTV when your son in his teens is struggling to deal with it....just be a bit gracious and make him proud instead of making him open to ridicule.
It's selfish behaviour...

[Parmy]

Yes she has no denying that, looks quite butch at times.

Has she had any facial surgery? Cause i can see why anne and everyone are getting it wrong.

Dunno wether i should roll about laughing or dislocate my bottim jaw.

[Christmas Lights]

Yes,I was shocked I would have thought that would be a private op.

Boob Job's are also on the NHS especially when they go wrong and have to have the implants removed :crazy: .

NHS is being used for cosmetic purposes rather than serious health conditions. Boob jobs including botch jobs and Gender reassignments should all be on Private health service :nono: .

It's truly baffling and crazy how people with life threatening diseases and illnesses are having to either PAY or raise ridiculous amount of money for the medicines /drugs they need !!! :shocked: it's unfair and wrong .

[Marsh.]

I think you are doing Ann a great disservice saying that hog. She wanted children but never had them. She has worked as a woman in a very male dominant world probably early on against a great deal of struggle and prejudice.

Are you implying that only people who choose to change gender feel trauma? :nono:

Kind of hard to see this when Ann herself said she's never faced any prejudice as a woman in her political career. :joker:

[Marsh.]

The problem is we only have her word for it that she wants to be a woman as there is no scientific way we can prove this, like say a worn hip joint. So its very based on trust rather than medical evidence.

Unless I have that wrong, which is possible?

Also now if you want the snip you may now not get it (saw this on that doc prog this week) until you try all other means of contraception! So you cant get the snip but you can get the chop !

Just her word? The fact that she's had the procedures at all aren't a big ****ing clue? :joker:

Why else would anybody go through the trauma of that kind of procedure?

[Marsh.]

Take them out then :hee:

fffffff

[jaxie]

Just her word? The fact that she's had the procedures at all aren't a big ****ing clue? :joker:

Why else would anybody go through the trauma of that kind of procedure?

India said the pro proceedure itself wasn't a trauma and has had worse at the dentist.

[Christmas Lights]

India said the pro proceedure itself wasn't a trauma and has had worse at the dentist.

I know she said it , but i honestly find that extremely difficult to believe . Even with a high pain threshold a huge operation like that is going impact you surely ? .

[thesheriff443]

Kamal was washing in dustbin in 2005, its big brother not news night.

Did anyone see the pictures over Christmas of girls on nights out, magic mirrors are what most are using.

[jaxie]

I know she said it , but i honestly find that extremely difficult to believe . Even with a high pain threshold a huge operation like that is going impact you surely ? .

Can only go on what India said.

Women go through childbirth with something like a small melon being forced out of your body, which often includes vaginal tears or cuts and needs stitching, and recover easily afterwards. Just soreness and sometimes a bit of a sting from the stitches, specially first few times you wee and when the stitches are dissolving they go a bit hard. With experience of that I'll take India's word for it that post op isn't too bad.

It's funny the first time I had a baby I was really worried about the bit where the baby leaves your body, it looks dreadful in all the birth films but was excrutiating pain of the contractions that did me in. It's agony. The actual baby coming out was something of a relief to get rid of it and stop the pain.

Everyone alive has a mum who has had to do that. Since we are celebrating women, thank you mum's! :wavey:

[Christmas Lights]

Can only go on what India said.

Women go through childbirth with something like a small melon being forced out of your body, which often includes vaginal tears or cuts and needs stitching, and recover easily afterwards. Just soreness and sometimes a bit of a sting from the stitches. With experience of that I'll take India's word for it.

Are you being serious??? :facepalm: ,you can't exactly compare gender reassignment with child birth though can you? . Surely the closest comparison would be a guy getting the snip and even then it's not the same thing :shocked: .

I know what you're saying though as child birth is clearly agonising and the labor experience /contractions can be draining physically and emotionally for women and it takes it's toll. I guess when we think of unbearable pain involving hospitals we automatically think of child birth .

[jaxie]

Are you being serious??? :facepalm: ,you can't exactly compare gender reassignment with child birth though can you? . Surely the closest comparison would be a guy getting the snip and even then it's not the same thing :shocked: .

I know what you're saying though as child birth is clearly agonising and the labor experience /contractions can be draining physically and emotionally for women and it takes it's toll. I guess when we think of unbearable pain involving hospitals we automatically think of child birth .

Well no I'm not comparing it to childbirth because childbirth is agony, just saying I'll trust India's word it isn't too bad post op, having experienced stitching in that area after childbirth. I added a little to my original post as I was still thinking about it after.

My father had his legs amputated in his forties due to diabetes/gangrene and the recovery for that is hard because they save as much nerve endings as they can and wrap it inside so you get a lot of phantom pain. I don't know if you'd get phantom penis pain. Anyone know that?

And you still feel like you have feet sometimes so there is a lot of trying to get up for a wee in the night and discovering they aren't there anymore and falling over.

[Christmas Lights]

Well no I'm not comparing it to childbirth because childbirth is agony, just saying I'll trust India's word it isn't too bad having experienced stitching in that area after childbirth. I added a little to my original post as I was still thinking about it after.

I just read back your other post and when you mentioned Birthing Video i was reminded of that clip they showed of one of the Kardashians literally dragging her own baby with her hands out of her body yikes! :shocked: , she didn't even let the midwife do that part and i think when she had another child she did the same thing again.

And in this programme ( think it was top ten celeb moments or something ) they were saying how flexible she must be . But to me it looked excruciating just to see that clip and i felt sqeamish.

It's amazing though how well some women cope though , When you described the experience and the aftermath it sounds terrible but the result is a healthy baby and i bet when you hold your child you realise it was worth it as crazy as that may sound at the time .

[jaxie]

I just read back your other post and when you mentioned Birthing Video i was reminded of that clip they showed of one of the Kardashians literally dragging her own baby with her hands out of her body yikes! :shocked: , she didn't even let the midwife do that part and i think when she had another child she did the same thing again.

And in this programme ( think it was top ten celeb moments or something ) they were saying how flexible she must be . But to me it looked excruciating just to see that clip and i felt sqeamish.

It's amazing though how well some women cope though , When you described the experience and the aftermath it sounds terrible but the result is a healthy baby and i bet when you hold your child you realise it was worth it as crazy as that may sound at the time .

It's a bit weird because with childbirth you recover quickly when the pain has stopped and you have this little new person to look after. It's also a huge new responsibility.

Things they don't tell you before childbirth. Some people throw up. And epidurals don't always work. I wanted one and got one numb thigh. If I'd been giving birth through my right knee I'd have been all set. Gas and air is more useful when you can bite the mask. Pethedin = good stuff.

The Kardassian you describe must be an incredibly healthy contortionist!

[Parmy]

It's a bit weird because with childbirth you recover quickly when the pain has stopped and you have this little new person to look after. It's also a huge new responsibility.

Maybe thats why some women become men?

[jaxie]

Maybe thats why some women become men?

What a conversation before 10am on a Saturday. The OP will be telling me to put the revelations away as per the thread title!

[Parmy]

What a conversation before 10am on a Saturday. The OP will be telling me to put the Revelations away as per the thread title!

I know, sorry i got bored sitting on the loo..

[jaxie]

I know, sorry i got bored sitting on the loo..

If you took in your phone or tablet you'll probably have a queue outside by now. Best hurry.

[Parmy]

Ok...sorry for butting in.

Enjoy your weekend

[jaxie]

Ok...sorry for butting in.

Enjoy your weekend

It's a forum, no butting happened!

[Parmy]

Cool.

[Marsh.]

India said the pro proceedure itself wasn't a trauma and has had worse at the dentist.
Good for her. It's still major surgery, not to mention all of the hormone treatments. Nobody does that unless they actually want it.

[Gusto Brunt]

No offence but she needs to get a new wardrobe.

The two frocks she wore, one at the launch and last night, were horrific.

[GreenIce]

yes, ann has had one romance in her whole life, she wanted children and love but probably due to her shyness and upbringing she denied herself that and focussed on her politics. she seems every bit a tortured soul as India

And she was regularly referred to as "Doris Karloff" in the press, that has to hurt even a woman as tough as Ann.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

And she was regularly referred to as "Doris Karloff" in the press, that has to hurt even a woman as tough as Ann.

yes she has had far worse than India has ever had yet India seems to think her "journey" is a unique thing of suffering

[Livia]

Wholly agree with GreeIce and Trumpet.

Also with Gusto... she does need a new wardrobe.