India clashes with Ginuwine as he says he wouldn’t date a transgendered woman

[Jake.]

949705835583860737

[chuff me dizzy]

Not playing properly ?

[Jake.]

Not playing properly ?

It works for me?

[Matthew.]

Oh christ alive :notimpressed:
She can’t kick off every time someone says something that isn’t beautifully kind to her for ****’s sake. Get a grip India.

[chuff me dizzy]

It works for me?

Yes did for me when I clicked it the 2nd time ,Odd? I hope Malika called India a victim to her face, its time someone opened their mouth

[Jake.]

Yes did for me when I clicked it the 2nd time ,Odd? I hope Malika called India a victim to her face, its time someone opened their mouth

Oh yeah it normally does that with Twitter videos, unsure why

[Jake.]

The hole she’s digging keeps getting deeper

[Northern Monkey]

Acceptance is one thing.Expecting people to change their sexuality to make you feel like a ‘real woman’ is another.
Not many if any straight men would go anywhere near a transsexual.

[chuff me dizzy]

Watching it again I dont think India was there, no doubt off sulking for camera time somewhere

[Gusto Brunt]

Ginuwine's entitled to his view. :mad:

[y.winter]

She wouldn't let it go, won't she?

[Vicky.]

Ah about time men got it in the neck for not wanting to shag male people. Its usually lesbians who get this...

[chuff me dizzy]

Ginuwine's entitled to his view. :mad:

Dead right he is !

[pontyboi]

Damn why are all the interesting episodes broadcast on the lowest rated nights? Lol it's the curse of bb Saturday allways seem to have a huge fight or an ejection and nobody tunes in. Looking forward to this tonight.

[Brillopad]

Yes did for me when I clicked it the 2nd time ,Odd? I hope Malika called India a victim to her face, its time someone opened their mouth

The reason she is getting away with it is because she feels protected due to current PC. She thinks no one will dare criticise a transgender on TV.

Someone show her and the PC brigade that people will speak up.

[chuff me dizzy]

The reason she is getting away with it is because she feels protected due to current PC. She thinks no one will dare criticise a transgender on TV.

Someone show her and the PC brigade that people will speak up.

Makes my blood boil !

[Vanessa]

India is seriously pissing me off. She's always offended :fist:

[Vanessa]

Malika has India sussed :clap1:

[Vicky.]

Acceptance is one thing.Expecting people to change their sexuality to make you feel like a ‘real woman’ is another.
Not many if any straight men would go anywhere near a transsexual.

Well yes this is exactly what it is. Expect others to effectively 'get over' their sexuality in order to validate an untruth you personally tell yourself. Sex does matter. Sexuality is about sex. Take as many huffs as you like, sexuality is not a choice or something one should try to get over to please you.

[Northern Monkey]

Ah about time men got it in the neck for not wanting to shag male people. Its usually lesbians who get this...

It’s sick trying to guilt trip people into who they should be attracted to.This India strikes me as one of those transactivists you’ve mentioned before.

[Northern Monkey]

Well yes this is exactly what it is. Expect others to effectively 'get over' their sexuality in order to validate an untruth you personally tell yourself. Sex does matter. Sexuality is about sex. Take as many huffs as you like, sexuality is not a choice or something one should try to get over to please you.

Totally agree.
It’s regressive thinking really.

[Jamie89]

It's become pretty clear to me that India's biggest problem is being unable to see things from someone else's pov, and see past her victim status. I understand her being upset but she can't dictate sexual preferences to other people, it's completely inappropriate.
I don't get the "I would never be attracted to a trans person" thing personally as you might not even know someone is trans, so it doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever, he's still entitled to that preference.

[ethanjames]

people are aloud to have preferences jesus Christ india. it must be hard to date if ur trans I get it but that doesn't mean u have to be an ass

[Daniel-X]

While I understand why India is offended, Ginuwine is perfectly entitled to his opinion. Her whole issue seems to stem from the fact that she's scared people still consider her to be a man, despite her transition. When in fact I don't think Ginuwine or anybody else for that matter is saying that India is a 'man', but she's reading between the lines and coming across as rather dogmatic and argumentative.

[BBUK-Fan]

Does India not realise everyone in there has their own opinions? She can't face somebody having a different opinion to her.

[Gusto Brunt]

Makes my blood boil !

She's very arrogant.

[Vicky.]

It's become pretty clear to me that India's biggest problem is being unable to see things from someone else's pov, and see past her victim status. I understand her being upset but she can't dictate sexual preferences to other people, it's completely inappropriate.
I don't get the "I would never be attracted to a trans person" thing personally as you might not even know someone is trans, so it doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever, he's still entitled to that preference.

Well if we are honest, most times you can tell. Especially with transwomen. Transmen do tend to pass very well in a few cases but they still have vaginas, and if they do not, its still not a 'penis'

The likes of Blair White pass very well...male friends have said they do find Blair attractive facially and such but could not sleep with someone who has a penis, as they are not gay. Even with SRS, its not a 'vagina...its an inverted penis or bits of colon made into a hole. So its still different. So I definitely understand saying you could never go there sexually tbh. It does noone any favours to pretend neovaginas are actual vaginas.

[-Sue-]

Hmm India may have lost her D*ck but now she still acts very much like one!!! sheesh!!!

[chuff me dizzy]

She's very arrogant.

But turns herself into the victim in a heartbeat

[Vanessa]

But turns herself into the victim in a heartbeat

Malika has her sussed. I hope India gets a lot of nominations. She will flip :hehe:

[chuff me dizzy]

Malika has her sussed. I hope India gets a lot of nominations. She will flip :hehe:

They will all be transphobic !! Im sure she will get loads of nominations !!

[Withano]

Hi. Would you give a transwoman your bank account details

No

Im sick to death of this

Hi. Would you jump in a lake of piranhas for lil ole me

[-Sue-]

Malika has her sussed. I hope India gets a lot of nominations. She will flip :hehe:

:joker: oh yes I can almost hear the DR rant now ' CBB It took me 50 years.. blah blah blah... misgender... blah blah..' (distant sound of CBB person on the mic snoring! as they too have heard it all before) :joker:

[Jamie89]

Well if we are honest, most times you can tell. Especially with transwomen. Transmen do tend to pass very well in a few cases but they still have vaginas, and if they do not, its still not a 'penis'

The likes of Blair White pass very well...male friends have said they do find Blair attractive facially and such but could not sleep with someone who has a penis, as they are not gay. Even with SRS, its not a 'vagina...its an inverted penis or bits of colon made into a hole. So its still different. So I definitely understand saying you could never go there sexually tbh. It does noone any favours to pretend neovaginas are actual vaginas.

I'm not really sure on the ins and outs - pardon the expression - of the genitalia post SRS tbh, I was just thinking if in a situation where someone can't tell, and if their genitals did match (god that seems like a bad way of putting it :laugh: ), and where someone is attracted to them on meeting them and would want to date them (before knowing of their trans status), I know it wouldn't be a common scenario it just puzzles me why someone would completely rule that out as ever being a possibility is all. I totally defend someones right to that preference, I just don't really get it personally is all. (And although I believe India was in the wrong here with how she reacted, I can see how there might be a feeling of hopelessness when you hear something like that and how that might be upsetting).

[y.winter]

India is deep into this victim trip and she can't help herself out.

[chuff me dizzy]

India is deep into this victim trip and she can't help herself out.

She doesn't want to be treat like other women,she wants to be treat different !

[Northern Monkey]

I'm not really sure on the ins and outs - pardon the expression - of the genitalia post SRS tbh, I was just thinking if in a situation where someone can't tell, and if their genitals did match (god that seems like a bad way of putting it :laugh: ), and where someone is attracted to them on meeting them and would want to date them (before knowing of their trans status), I know it wouldn't be a common scenario it just puzzles me why someone would completely rule that out as ever being a possibility is all. I totally defend someones right to that preference, I just don't really get it personally is all. (And although I believe India was in the wrong here with how she reacted, I can see how there might be a feeling of hopelessness when you hear something like that and how that might be upsetting).

The thing is.There’s more to being a woman even physically than just a vagina.
Softer skin,Women smell different,Less hair,Rounder hips,different frame,less muscularity.Men don’t just think “pussy” when they see a woman.

[rusticgal]

The reason she is getting away with it is because she feels protected due to current PC. She thinks no one will dare criticise a transgender on TV.

Someone show her and the PC brigade that people will speak up.


This is her game. It's a shame really. I liked the look of her when she went in...I hoped she wasn't going to be a diva...but she has been just that.She is shallow and one dimensional and everything is about her and her journey.
She could have played this so differently...been mature and gained respect and represented the Transgender community better. She should respect other people's walk of life, add to debates and shown other sides of her...instead all she wants to do is talk about her transitions, her journey and make an issue about being called 'he' and making it all about her instead of trying to understand people around her accept her dramatic change.

[AnnieK]

The thing is.There’s more to being a woman even physically than just a vagina.
Softer skin,Women smell different,Less hair,Rounder hips,different frame,less muscularity.Men don’t just think “pussy” when they see a woman.

:clap1:

[Vicky.]

The thing is.There’s more to being a woman even physically than just a vagina.
Softer skin,Women smell different,Less hair,Rounder hips,different frame,less muscularity.Men don’t just think “pussy” when they see a woman.

Yes indeed. Another reason I find 'vagina fetishist' for someone who is attracted to real/natal/biological women only really ****ing awful.

[Monkey Slut]

I don't get the "I would never be attracted to a trans person" thing personally as you might not even know someone is trans, so it doesn't make much sense to me, but whatever, he's still entitled to that preference.

I agree, I think it's a strange statement and one usually made out of ignorance by people who assume that you can tell if a woman (in this case) is trans just by looking at them which isn't always true. Ginuwine may have been attracted to trans women before and not known.

Dating and relationships are different, other things come into play there and he's totally entitled to his preference to not want to enter into a relationship with a trans woman.

[BigBrotherGuy100]

I really Don't remember Nadia, Luke A or Kelly going on like her hmmmm?

[Brillopad]

This is her game. It's a shame really. I liked the look of her when she went in...I hoped she wasn't going to be a diva...but she has been just that.She is shallow and one dimensional and everything is about her and her journey.
She could have played this so differently...been mature and gained respect and represented the Transgender community better. She should respect other people's walk of life, add to debates and shown other sides of her...instead all she wants to do is talk about her transitions, her journey and make an issue about being called 'he' and making it all about her instead of trying to understand people around her accept her dramatic change.

Indeed rusticgal - she had the power and she blew it big time. She has so exposed and embarrassed herself for the type of person she is and that has absolutely nothing to do with her sex. I would say I feel for her, but I don’t. She is a bitter woman.

[-Sue-]

I wish we could see more of India beyond the transition talk I really hoped she would be a great fun filled HM sadly after the 'this is CBB not panorama' comment it's all gone a bit wrong for her.

I can understand she is out of her comfort zone but they all are and if she continues to argue over everything and everyone she will leave the building faster than elvis!

Not the place to be if your not 100% comfortable in your own skin telling people how they should react or how they should respond sheesh silly cow I almost dread hearing the '50 years speech again..' but know it's coming! lol

roll on 9pm.. sooo excited ...

[Northern Monkey]

Yes indeed. Another reason I find 'vagina fetishist' for someone who is attracted to real/natal/biological women only really ****ing awful.


I take it that’s some transactivist slur for people who are attracted to real women?

[Vicky.]

I take it that’s some transactivist slur for people who are attracted to real women?

Tends to only be applied to lesbians. Its not just transactivists, a lot of 'normal' transgender people are the same. Lesbians are transphobic bigots as penises on transwomen are female body parts and as such, its the vagina they want so they are vagina fetishists and need to get over their bigotry.

Sounds mental, but its actually fairly common these days. Literally every lesbians friend I have has had an experience with a person like this.

k5GYlZKfBmI

Watch this, if you have spare time. Its all absolutely bat****.

[Scream]

I assumed Malika was feeling sorry for India saying she is a victim in all of this. Am I wrong? Everyone seems to think different?

[LaLaLand]

Oh bore off India.

[Jamie89]

The thing is.There’s more to being a woman even physically than just a vagina.
Softer skin,Women smell different,Less hair,Rounder hips,different frame,less muscularity.Men don’t just think “pussy” when they see a woman.

I know, I wasn't trying to make it sound like it's all about genitals lol, I was just responding to a comment about genitals. People can have whatever preferences they want though, and smells/touch/hair/body shape etc etc, all fine and I get it. The angle I was coming from was if somebody matched somebody else's preference in those ways or whatever way it might be, and they were attracted to them and wanted to date them, and the only thing that put them off was finding out they are trans, then although they're perfectly entitled to that, I just don't personally get why they would be.

I assumed Malika was feeling sorry for India saying she is a victim in all of this. Am I wrong? Everyone seems to think different?

It seemed to me that she was implying India was playing the victim. I think it happens on tonights show? So I suppose we'll see the full thing then

[Withano]

I assumed Malika was feeling sorry for India saying she is a victim in all of this. Am I wrong? Everyone seems to think different?

:suspect: yes youre wrong I think

She was more :rolleyes: we're living with a victim (because India makes herself a victim and people are bored of that)... I think.

[Northern Monkey]

Tends to only be applied to lesbians. Its not just transactivists, a lot of 'normal' transgender people are the same. Lesbians are transphobic bigots as penises on transwomen are female body parts and as such, its the vagina they want so they are vagina fetishists and need to get over their bigotry.

Sounds mental, but its actually fairly common these days. Literally every lesbians friend I have has had an experience with a person like this.

k5GYlZKfBmI

Watch this, if you have spare time. Its all absolutely bat****.
I have learned much from you on this topic.
I’ve seen that Riley before on Youtube.He/she/they seems like they have alot of growing up to do.
This whole agenda seems to have gone from ‘we want acceptance’ to ‘we want to reshape the world around us and force you all to think,feel and be how we want or you’re an evil bigoted transphobe’

[Vicky.]

I have learned much from you on this topic.
I’ve seen that Riley before on Youtube.He/she/they seems like they have alot of growing up to do.
This whole agenda seems to have gone from ‘we want acceptance’ to ‘we want to reshape the world around us and force you all to think,feel and be how we want or you’re an evil bigoted transphobe’

Absolutely spot on. Its being driven by narcissistic arseholes, absolute fantasists advising the government on law changes that will effect everyone, but with no thought to anyone it will actually affect.

Meanwhile people grow even more deluded and start thinking biological sex is a social ****ing construct. It really annoys me sometimes when I see people I consider intelligent buying it all D: Every one of my mates knows the score now though. I tend to find once people find out the extent of it all, and think just a little into the matter (rather than just repeating the cultlike chant of 'transwomen are women'), they become 'gender critical'

The more Indias on TV insisting straight men should shag transwomen the better. Wakes more people up to the crazyness.

[Northern Monkey]

I know, I wasn't trying to make it sound like it's all about genitals lol, I was just responding to a comment about genitals. People can have whatever preferences they want though, and smells/touch/hair/body shape etc etc, all fine and I get it. The angle I was coming from was if somebody matched somebody else's preference in those ways or whatever way it might be, and they were attracted to them and wanted to date them, and the only thing that put them off was finding out they are trans, then although they're perfectly entitled to that, I just don't personally get why they would be.

Well i mean obviously people can change their preferences.Nothing wrong in that.
But also imo there’s nothing wrong in saying that you’re not attracted to trans people if you aren’t.
You can state that you would never date a trans person because that is how you genuinely feel.They don’t float your boat.
It’s just stating your sexuality.

[-Sue-]

This CBB season sure is an education

[Crimson Dynamo]

Its getting more and more like the "Im a Laydeeee sketch"

[hijaxers]

She's very arrogant.

India Willoughby in therapy gonna get shown in future for sure.

[y.winter]

I have learned much from you on this topic.
I’ve seen that Riley before on Youtube.He/she/they seems like they have alot of growing up to do.
This whole agenda seems to have gone from ‘we want acceptance’ to ‘we want to reshape the world around us and force you all to think,feel and be how we want or you’re an evil bigoted transphobe’

I agree. The entire video has a very passive aggressive subtext of "I won't tell you how to live your life, but it's wrong how you live your life and this is how you should think, feel and act".
Deconstructing emotions and sexual attraction like it's some sort of a technical issue that you can adjust - it's not practical nor making any sense.

[Jamie89]

Well i mean obviously people can change their preferences.Nothing wrong in that.
But also imo there’s nothing wrong in saying that you’re not attracted to trans people if you aren’t.
You can state that you would never date a trans person because that is how you genuinely feel.They don’t float your boat.
It’s just stating your sexuality.

That's all fair enough, I'm not trying to say there's anything 'wrong' with holding that view though just to be clear, I'm just saying I don't really get why someone would rule out ever being attracted to someone, that they otherwise would be attracted to, purely on the basis of them being trans, if the status of being trans was all it came down to (however rare that situation might be). I don't think it's a 'wrong' view to hold though.

edit to add: I don't think it's the same as stating a sexuality though is it? Like if I was attracted to a trans man/born female I would still consider myself gay. I think.

[Crimson Dynamo]

All of the TL's trans pals hate her and are going ballistic

[JerseyWins]

Yeah I take the other person's side in this India dispute yet again but India has not necessarily been bad TV for me. :joker:

[smudgie]

Depends on the context, how the discussion evolved etc.
If I was ginger, bald or wore glasses and somebody in the group decided to spout how they wouldn’t date a ginger, a baldy or a spectacle wearing person then I would think they were being rude. But just pass it off as their ignorance.
However if the conversation was brought up as the general subject and opinions asked for then that would be totally different.

[Northern Monkey]

That's all fair enough, I'm not trying to say there's anything 'wrong' with holding that view though just to be clear, I'm just saying I don't really get why someone would rule out ever being attracted to someone, that they otherwise would be attracted to, purely on the basis of them being trans, if the status of being trans was all it came down to (however rare that situation might be). I don't think it's a 'wrong' view to hold though.

edit to add: I don't think it's the same as stating a sexuality though is it? Like if I was attracted to a trans man/born female I would still consider myself gay. I think.

See i think differently and it’s probably unpopular on here but I believe that a man can never become a woman no matter how many ops and hormones they have.To me they’re still male so if i found myself have feelings for a trans woman i’d consider myself gay.

[Monkey Slut]

That's all fair enough, I'm not trying to say there's anything 'wrong' with holding that view though just to be clear, I'm just saying I don't really get why someone would rule out ever being attracted to someone, that they otherwise would be attracted to, purely on the basis of them being trans, if the status of being trans was all it came down to (however rare that situation might be). I don't think it's a 'wrong' view to hold though.

edit to add: I don't think it's the same as stating a sexuality though is it? Like if I was attracted to a trans man/born female I would still consider myself gay. I think.

I think it comes down to other people's perceptions, honestly.

I don't it's the same either.

[Jamie89]

See i think differently and it’s probably unpopular on here but I believe that a man can never become a woman no matter how many ops and hormones they have.To me they’re still male so if i found myself have feelings for a trans woman i’d consider myself gay.

Yeah that is quite unpopular on here lol :p But no that actually makes sense in that case, I wouldn't have thought sexuality would come into it or it would make someone question their sexuality if that happened but I see what you're saying.

[Vicky.]

edit to add: I don't think it's the same as stating a sexuality though is it? Like if I was attracted to a trans man/born female I would still consider myself gay. I think.

Your sexuality is your own business, but personally if I was shagging a pre-op transman I would consider myself bi as the transman is female. Post op...not sure, but its not the same as a man as its all surgically constructed (also SRS for transmen is nowhere near as avanced as SRS for transwomen) but fairly sure I would still see them as female, just with...male features or something.

I think I have mentioned my extended family member before but there is a similar situation going on pretty close to me at the moment. A family member is dating a transwoman, the transwoman wants srs but my family member says she is not a lesbian and wants a cock to shag, basically. So she considers herself in a straight relationship.

Its all a bit..confusing really.But however someone looks at it, sex is a valid reason to turn someone down. Sexuality is not something anyone needs to 'get over' or be considered transphobic tbh..that does imply sexuality is a choice.

[bots]

This is where lines have to be drawn. People are entitled to be as they want, in whatever sexual form they want, but they should give everyone else the same respect and allow everyone else the same freedom to be themselves and express themselves as they want. Forcing someone to like something they just don't is never going to end well

As I said in a previous thread she has set the cause back 20 years by her appearance on this show.

[-Sue-]

This is where lines have to be drawn. People are entitled to be as they want, in whatever sexual form they want, but they should give everyone else the same respect and allow everyone else the same freedom to be themselves and express themselves as they want. Forcing someone to like something they just don't is never going to end well

As I said in a previous thread she has set the cause back 20 years by her appearance on this show.

well said :clap1:

[Brillopad]

That's all fair enough, I'm not trying to say there's anything 'wrong' with holding that view though just to be clear, I'm just saying I don't really get why someone would rule out ever being attracted to someone, that they otherwise would be attracted to, purely on the basis of them being trans, if the status of being trans was all it came down to (however rare that situation might be). I don't think it's a 'wrong' view to hold though.

edit to add: I don't think it's the same as stating a sexuality though is it? Like if I was attracted to a trans man/born female I would still consider myself gay. I think.

Sorry Jamie, no disrespect intended, but if I dated a man only to discover he had once been a woman I would struggle with that and believe I would not be able to get past it. It would be too uncomfortable for me. I think it would be a big deal for many people.

[Monkey Slut]

See i think differently and it’s probably unpopular on here but I believe that a man can never become a woman no matter how many ops and hormones they have.To me they’re still male so if i found myself have feelings for a trans woman i’d consider myself gay.

So...you're usually attracted to cis women and then find yourself having feelings for someone who identify as a woman and looks like a women but just so happens to be trans and despite not being attracted to cis males before or since, that makes you consider yourself to be gay? That doesn't make sense to me. Would you still consider yourself to be straight if you dated a trans man because they were assigned female at birth?

[Vicky.]

So...you're usually attracted to cis women and then find yourself having feelings for someone who identify as a woman and looks like a women but just so happens to be trans and despite not being attracted to cis males before or since, that makes you consider yourself to be gay? That doesn't make sense to me. Would you still consider yourself to be straight if you dated a trans man because they were assigned female at birth?

This is such rubbish...noone is 'assigned' anything at birth. Sex is noted. Assigned makes out that its just random Harry Potter sorting hat crap like 'oh lets put this one in with the boy group...no reason why, just we have decided this one is male' when its obviously not.

Edit. Yes, intersex people exist, before you say this. But intersex is not trans. And intersex groups/people have repeatedly asked to be left out of trans conversations.

[Northern Monkey]

So...you're usually attracted to cis women and then find yourself having feelings for someone who identify as a woman and looks like a women but just so happens to be trans and despite not being attracted to cis males before or since, that makes you consider yourself to be gay? That doesn't make sense to me. Would you still consider yourself to be straight if you dated a trans man because they were assigned female at birth?

Yep.Because to me they are still a woman.

I suppose it all comes down to your perception of trans people.My opinion is that it is impossible to fully transition.It can’t happen without some kind of distant future genetic engineering.

[Northern Monkey]

This is where lines have to be drawn. People are entitled to be as they want, in whatever sexual form they want, but they should give everyone else the same respect and allow everyone else the same freedom to be themselves and express themselves as they want. Forcing someone to like something they just don't is never going to end well

As I said in a previous thread she has set the cause back 20 years by her appearance on this show.

100%

This kind of thought police dictatorship thinking is a dangerous far left agenda which isn’t just limited to the trans issue.
It’s anti freedom of thought and freedom to even be who you are.It’s regressive af.

[-Sue-]

Nadia Almada & Luke Anderson the only 2 housemates I can remember were nothing like India.. they were so easygoing and we actually got to know them as people not just their transgender side of things..

[Maru]

Well if we are honest, most times you can tell. Especially with transwomen. Transmen do tend to pass very well in a few cases but they still have vaginas, and if they do not, its still not a 'penis'

The likes of Blair White pass very well...male friends have said they do find Blair attractive facially and such but could not sleep with someone who has a penis, as they are not gay. Even with SRS, its not a 'vagina...its an inverted penis or bits of colon made into a hole. So its still different. So I definitely understand saying you could never go there sexually tbh. It does noone any favours to pretend neovaginas are actual vaginas.

Yeah Blaire White is definitely passing. :laugh: She hasn't had the surgery though, she opted to keep her original equipment because she didn't want to lose the ability to orgasm (very understandable)


Tends to only be applied to lesbians. Its not just transactivists, a lot of 'normal' transgender people are the same. Lesbians are transphobic bigots as penises on transwomen are female body parts and as such, its the vagina they want so they are vagina fetishists and need to get over their bigotry.

Sounds mental, but its actually fairly common these days. Literally every lesbians friend I have has had an experience with a person like this.

k5GYlZKfBmI

Watch this, if you have spare time. Its all absolutely bat****.

This video is such trash but a surprising amt of folk who exist out there think this way.

I have learned much from you on this topic.
I’ve seen that Riley before on Youtube.He/she/they seems like they have alot of growing up to do.
This whole agenda seems to have gone from ‘we want acceptance’ to ‘we want to reshape the world around us and force you all to think,feel and be how we want or you’re an evil bigoted transphobe’

Agreed, it's gone too far. Now it's all about making grandiose moral accusations and covering up their own prejudice with emotional arguments whose sole purpose is to dictate to others and bully them into accepting their premise. It's no different than any other prejudice if you really listen to the reasoning behind their views and see the cues. There are some darker elements hiding behind these views, because when you feel you're superior enough to dictate to the rest of the group how the world not only should but MUST operate in order to achieve "total acceptance"... it's too similar for me to the Scientology scam and trying to achieve "clear".

And many of the arguments have a very strong hierarchy to them. Your gender/racial label literally dictates how you are expected to be treated/perceived.. and there's nothing you can do to escape it for the rest of your life. It's a very sad and miserable POV.

[Northern Monkey]

Yeah Blaire White is definitely passing. :laugh: She hasn't had the surgery though, she opted to keep her original equipment because she didn't want to lose the ability to orgasm (very understandable)




This video is such trash but a surprising amt of folk who exist out there think this way.



Agreed, it's gone too far. Now it's all about making grandiose moral accusations and covering up their own prejudice with emotional arguments whose sole purpose is to dictate to others and bully them into accepting their premise. It's no different than any other prejudice if you really listen to the reasoning behind their views and see the cues. There are some darker elements hiding behind these views, because when you feel you're superior enough to dictate to the rest of the group how the world not only should but MUST operate in order to achieve "total acceptance"... it's too similar for me to the Scientology scam and trying to achieve "clear".

And many of the arguments have a very strong hierarchy to them. Your gender/racial label literally dictates how you are expected to be treated/perceived.. and there's nothing you can do to escape it for the rest of your life. It's a very sad and miserable POV.Yes exactly and it’s not limited to the trans issue.It comes from a place of
‘Oh so you’re comfortable with your gender/you’re white/you’re straight/you’re male?
Well you have privilege.We need to take some of that away to make things more equal’
You don’t have enough victimhood points so you’re bottom of the hierarchy.
Then comes the dictating and being called ‘white male patriarchal cis scum who perpetuates rape culture rah rah rah’
It’s all the same ****.

[Wizard.]

It seems to me that whilst India’s opinion and feelings are valid that it’s surelt hypocritical of her to be argue against somebody’s sexual preferences. Genuwine can choose who he does and does not sleep with and and it’s nobodies place to say otherwise.

[Jamie89]

Your sexuality is your own business, but personally if I was shagging a pre-op transman I would consider myself bi as the transman is female. Post op...not sure, but its not the same as a man as its all surgically constructed (also SRS for transmen is nowhere near as avanced as SRS for transwomen) but fairly sure I would still see them as female, just with...male features or something.

I think I have mentioned my extended family member before but there is a similar situation going on pretty close to me at the moment. A family member is dating a transwoman, the transwoman wants srs but my family member says she is not a lesbian and wants a cock to shag, basically. So she considers herself in a straight relationship.

Its all a bit..confusing really.But however someone looks at it, sex is a valid reason to turn someone down. Sexuality is not something anyone needs to 'get over' or be considered transphobic tbh..that does imply sexuality is a choice.

Yeah I think I remember you mentioning that before. Similarly I used to work with a woman who was married to a man who fully transitioned to female (he was a crossdresser at first and later came out as transsexual) and she stayed with him throughout. She said that she considered him female but in terms of her sexuality still considered herself to be straight. Like most of these conversations though the deeper you get the more you sort of see all these labels as being pretty redundant when talking about such complex and unique situations I think.

I think it comes down to other people's perceptions, honestly.

I don't it's the same either.

I think it seems to come down to whether or not you see the trans person as the gender that they've transitioned to (and possibly added to that how it might affect your views of your own sexuality). I'm going to do a poll I've decided and match it to the 'do you consider transmen to be men' poll and do some scientific analysis :laugh:

https://i.imgur.com/q3QZiyg.gif

Sorry Jamie, no disrespect intended, but if I dated a man only to discover he had once been a woman I would struggle with that and believe I would not be able to get past it. It would be too uncomfortable for me. I think it would be a big deal for many people.

That would be your right Brillo. It's the 'why' that I find interesting because I wasn't really sure what the problem would be if it was only their trans status that was the issue.

[Osjama]

India isn’t entitled to a date or sex

Sexuality isn’t smth u can change just bc some bitter trans woman said so

[Cherie]

Nadia Almada & Luke Anderson the only 2 housemates I can remember were nothing like India.. they were so easygoing and we actually got to know them as people not just their transgender side of things..

:clap2:

[Ant.]

It seems to me that whilst India’s opinion and feelings are valid that it’s surelt hypocritical of her to be argue against somebody’s sexual preferences. Genuwine can choose who he does and does not sleep with and and it’s nobodies place to say otherwise.

This sums up my feelings exactly :clap1:

[poppsywoppsy]

There are many things in people's lives which they have to struggle against every single day.

It may not be something which affects their dealings with the opposite sex but can control their lives in a way they might not want or like.

Do they rant and rail against the wider community about their lot and expect them to fund their problem when they earn more than a lot of their neighbours.

Do they want others not to notice their problems and change their thinking towards it.

India is not disabled or mentally challenged. She has a good job, has her health and her mother is supportive.

She has had her surgery free, yet still thinks the world owes her something.

Most people have something we find about ourselves which we wish was different but do not let it become the main topic of conversation over and over again and demand others think the same way.

India is a first class bore, no wonder she hasn't had a relationship in years, who could put up with her?

[Smithy]

I suppose where India’s issue lies is that by someone saying they wouldn’t date a trans person, that that person doesn’t see the trans person as an actual member of that gender, so by genuine saying he wouldn’t date her because she’s trans, he’s saying he doesn’t see her as an actual woman

[Parmy]

I suppose where India’s issue lies is that by someone saying they wouldn’t date a trans person, that that person doesn’t see the trans person as an actual member of that gender, so by genuine saying he wouldn’t date her because she’s trans, he’s saying he doesn’t see her as an actual woman

People do think like that, so i ask them would they date a woman to man trans as they should still see him as a woman?

[poppsywoppsy]

I suppose where India’s issue lies is that by someone saying they wouldn’t date a trans person, that that person doesn’t see the trans person as an actual member of that gender, so by genuine saying he wouldn’t date her because she’s trans, he’s saying he doesn’t see her as an actual woman

If that is his honest opinion, what is she going to do about it.

Stamp away and go to bed, that will solve everything.

Just realise you will not change everyone's opinion and get over it.

[smudgie]

Some people will never see India as a woman, it’s just a tad naive of her to think otherwise.
Not saying if it is right or wrong, but it is what it is.

[Brother Leon]

I see nothing wrong with what he said...

[odd sock]

I'm not really sure on the ins and outs - pardon the expression - of the genitalia post SRS tbh, I was just thinking if in a situation where someone can't tell, and if their genitals did match (god that seems like a bad way of putting it :laugh: ), and where someone is attracted to them on meeting them and would want to date them (before knowing of their trans status), I know it wouldn't be a common scenario it just puzzles me why someone would completely rule that out as ever being a possibility is all. I totally defend someones right to that preference, I just don't really get it personally is all. (And although I believe India was in the wrong here with how she reacted, I can see how there might be a feeling of hopelessness when you hear something like that and how that might be upsetting).:clap1::clap1::clap1:

[Monkey Slut]

People do think like that, so i ask them would they date a woman to man trans as they should still see him as a woman?

I asked that to someone earlier in this thread, he said he'd consider himself straight if he dated a trans man and gay if he dated a trans woman. That doesn't really make sense to me but.....

[-Sue-]

Some people will never see India as a woman, it’s just a tad naive of her to think otherwise.
Not saying if it is right or wrong, but it is what it is.

It's a tricky one I am happy to consider her female however her ranting that she is a 'real woman' I find harder to accept as she was not born that way.

I do not want to offend anyone so I am trying to use the right wording I know literally naff all about transgender or the LGBT as I don't usually look at sexuality/gender/height/colour of skin/etc in that way to like or dislike a person. The way people treat me (others) or their character in general is how I tend to judge people

But you are quite right she needs to understand not everyone is of the same mindset/generation/has the same life experiences so her ability to accept others the way they accept her will do her a ton of favours (if she ever learns to be more polite to others and not be so judgemental, childish, hypocritical etc)

[Vicky.]

I suppose where India’s issue lies is that by someone saying they wouldn’t date a trans person, that that person doesn’t see the trans person as an actual member of that gender, so by genuine saying he wouldn’t date her because she’s trans, he’s saying he doesn’t see her as an actual woman
I wonder if India would be happier if people were blatantly honest and said ' No, I do not see you as a woman, I see you as a transwoman, the two are very different'

Doubt it somehow.

[Vicky.]

I asked that to someone earlier in this thread, he said he'd consider himself straight if he dated a trans man and gay if he dated a trans woman. That doesn't really make sense to me but.....

How does that not make sense? If someone believes that you cannot actually change sex as many people do (and science agrees with this as it stands) then a transman is a female, and a transwoman is a male. Therefor a male person dating a transman is a male datng a female, so straight.

Comes down to if you believe sex is a material thing, or something in ones head really. I would say sex is a real thing, not a feeling. People can have surgeries to mimic the opposite sex if that relieves their dysphoria, but their sex does remain the same, and in a lot of cases you can still tell the original sex anyway. India is definitely one of those cases.

[BBUK-Fan]

I feel India is rude to Ginuwine by the fact they know he has a lot of kids, 9 to be exact, to 5 different women so she asks him about dating a transgender person because he's been with lots of women before so India is bugging him about being with one thinking he'll be with lots more women. I don't like how India is thinking of Ginuwine

[smudgie]

Don’t ask a question if you are not prepared to accept the answer in good faith.
All this victim crap is rubbish, she is 50+ years old, learn to bloody grow up, if she is lucky she will meet the man of her dreams, if he has any sense will run a mile and get away from the misery she is.

[Marsh.]

I'd never date or have sex with a transperson either. :shrug:

[Jake.]

I'd never date or have sex with a transperson either. :shrug:

Luckily enough for them http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/customavatars/avatar12296_100.gif

[Miranda123]

Malika has India sussed :clap1:

Im loving Malika right now!!

I really dont think India should go for her, it could get very ugly

And very entertaining lol

[Marsh.]

Luckily enough for them http://cdn.thisisbigbrother.com/customavatars/avatar12296_100.gif

You cheeky bitch. Anyone would be lUCKY to have me. :hmph:

[GoldHeart]

Ginuwine's entitled to his view. :mad:

Exactly :clap1:

Not everyone would be comfortable dating a trans person it's a fact . So India needs to get over herself :bored: .

[C_JEE]

Gosh - I feel for India's situation but she is not doing anything to help herself or the image of transgender people.
Transgender aside, as a person she is not coming across great. The whole bed move scenario with Ann; the way she dealt with Genuwin's response - all in all, her responses to both show no compassion or grace. She seems to be throwing a lot of tantrums when people don't agree with her.

I find myself wondering if she always been like this? If not, then perhaps it is too early for her to have done a show like CBB. Her emotions still seem very raw.

Either way I hope people remember that she is representing herself & not all transgender folk.

[teeeny]

i wonder would she date a trans man? not liking India at all very hypocritical and Malika was exactly right, shes a victim

[GoldHeart]

i wonder would she date a trans man? not liking India at all very hypocritical and Malika was exactly right, shes a victim

India would never date a trans man that's the hypocrisy of it!!. i wish somebody asked her this and flipped the tables on her :joker: .

[jaxie]

I willI suppose where India’s issue lies is that by someone saying they wouldn’t date a trans person, that that person doesn’t see the trans person as an actual member of that gender, so by genuine saying he wouldn’t date her because she’s trans, he’s saying he doesn’t see her as an actual woman

India is being completely unrealistic and I think it's something a lot of people are unrealistic about for the sake of PC. India has had cosmetic changes so that India feels comfortable but those changes only go so far, it's still mostly the same body of a 50 year old man, same height, voice hip shape etc. The changes are a self desire but they don't magically transform you into Britney Spears in the eyes of others. People will be polite and respect your right to live as desired. But a straight man is attracted to women. India does not look like a woman so why would a straight guy want to date her? Most people are attracted to others through physical appearance initially. Your body change isn't necessarily going to make you more attractive to straight people.

[Maru]

I will

India is being completely unrealistic and I think it's something a lot of people are unrealistic about for the sake of PC. India has had cosmetic changes so that India feels comfortable but those changes only go so far, it's still mostly the same body of a 50 year old man, same height, voice hip shape etc. The changes are a self desire but they don't magically transform you into Britney Spears in the eyes of others. People will be polite and respect your right to live as desired. But a straight man is attracted to women. India does not look like a woman so why would a straight guy want to date her? Most people are attracted to others through physical appearance initially. Your body change isn't necessarily going to make you more attractive to straight people.

Yeah, and I can understand where people don't really want to have this discussion with folk who already struggle everyday with their identity. To that end, I can understand how India's feelings were not just hurt in some trivial way.

Maybe in her real life, people handle her fragility differently (with kid gloves) and keeps these conversations to a minimum as a means to not exacerbate her dysphoria. But I also don't think that we should be encouraging this perception that just because you change your sex on your ID or have work done, that other's perception of your sex/gender should also change. These shouldn't be sold as a bill of goods, a means to achieving permanent acceptance in other people's eyes. What it should represent is your individual choice to live as a particular gender and to enjoy your legal rights while doing so (i.e. use the bathroom of that gender), to go with the internal work. To sell it as more than this is not only harmful but will lead to disappointment. I don't think she's fully transitioned spiritually/mentally in this respect.. she really does seem to treat it as though being a woman comes down to boobs, cloths and hair (the whole "diva" thing)... and just kinda missing out on everything else in the process. She could have a very good experience in the house if she would just let things happen.

[jaxie]

Yeah, and I can understand where people don't really want to have this discussion with folk who already struggle everyday with their identity. To that end, I can understand how India's feelings were not just hurt in some trivial way.

Maybe in her real life, people handle her fragility differently (with kid gloves) and keeps these conversations to a minimum as a means to not exacerbate her dysphoria. But I also don't think that we should be encouraging this perception that just because you change your sex on your ID or have work done, that other's perception of your sex/gender should also change. These shouldn't be sold as a bill of goods, a means to achieving permanent acceptance in other people's eyes. What it should represent is your individual choice to live as a particular gender and to enjoy your legal rights while doing so (i.e. use the bathroom of that gender), to go with the internal work. To sell it as more than this is not only harmful but will lead to disappointment. I don't think she's fully transitioned spiritually/mentally in this respect.. she really does seem to treat it as though being a woman comes down to boobs, cloths and hair (the whole "diva" thing)... and just kinda missing out on everything else in the process. She could have a very good experience in the house if she would just let things happen.

In many ways I think India as a representative of trans just shows that much more counselling and less surgical procedure may be more appropriate in some cases. I don't think the surgery she has had is going to give India what she wants. There is a lot of talk about transformation but that has to be personal because your transformation isn't necessarily transforming others or how they will see you.

[GoldHeart]

In many ways I think India as a representative of trans just shows that much more counselling and less surgical procedure may be more appropriate in some cases. I don't think the surgery she has had is going to give India what she wants. There is a lot of talk about transformation but that has to be personal because your transformation isn't necessarily transforming others or how they will see you.

Why did she go on BB she clearly needs counselling then . She keeps having these random outbursts everytime somebody has a different opinion and it's tiresome to see :facepalm: .

Ginuwine was being honest in the most gentlemanly way which was nice to see , i bet people assumed he'd be a rough argumentative person as he's a rapper.

India is pathetic the way she's pushing him and grabbing him, and even then he's still being polite and just laughing it off .

Malika even said if a guy didn't fancy her because his preference was for another ethnicity she wouldn't cry and moan about it :joker: .

Ginuwine is a straight man with 9 kids therefore he must fancy all women??? , India is delusional :bored: .

[chuff me dizzy]

If the boot had been on the other foot and Ginuwine had grabbed India to try to kiss her she would have kicked up such a stink,he would have been removed

[lostalex]

gender and sex are 2 different things. 1 of them is real the other is not.

[Nicky91]

calling India a woman is shocking indeed, since i still see many male things about ha :eek:

i do get the feeling India went into CBB to argue, moan, whine and make everything go on about her :mad:

[chuff me dizzy]

If India had done to a man on the outside what she did to Ginuwine she would have got battered

[poppsywoppsy]

calling India a woman is shocking indeed, since i still see many male things about ha :eek:

i do get the feeling India went into CBB to argue, moan, whine and make everything go on about her :mad:


I agree but would add that my feelings are that India went in to show how brave she has been, how wonderful she was for highlighting her struggles, educating the morons on every aspect of her 50 years as a man in the wrong body and never letting anybody forget how she has transitioned by getting her false boobs out at every opportunity to prove she is now a real woman.

It hasn't happened the way she wanted and her pique at realizing it is manifesting itself in petty spitefulness and throwing her toys out of the pram.

[Livia]

India hasn't experienced that whole being a teenage girl, going through puberty, experimenting with makeup and clothes, falling for the wrong bloke... consequently she has no idea how to dress herself as a fifty something woman, or how to act age-appropriately. You would have thought she had some female friends who would tell her straight... unless, as I suspect, she never thinks she's ever wrong. And her performance last night when she found out someone who has no shortage of female attention, didn't want to date her. She was embarrassing. However, I was really impressed with the others, there seems to be a really good, inclusive feeling in there, and I particularly liked Courtney's take on stuff, especially considering how India had insulted her earlier in the evening.

[MTVN]

Eh I can understand why it's a bit of a kick in the teeth for transwomen to hear that their very status as a transwoman rules them out as a viable partner for a lot of men and it undermines what they hoped to become by transitioning. I don't think India's view is that outrageous really and the counterarguments that people were making were quite poor in saying Ginuwine might also not be attracted to Malika etc. because like India said they're not talking about individuals..

[Shaun]

She didn't put herself across well at all but that could very easily have been a disaster area for Ginuwine.

Whilst she made it about herself and everyone seemed to think she was just upset because he wouldn't go for her, she did have a point to be fair in that writing off an entire demographic is a little bit ignorant. It's not acceptable for people to say "I wouldn't date/marry/**** black guys" so this isn't really that different. Might not have found one attractive yet, and the biology might be confusing/off-putting, but it's still a sweeping generalisation, and something that a lot of people can excuse their bigotries with calling it "a preference".

Reminds me of that Sky show about 15 years ago, 'There's Something About Miriam'. It's very possible for people to pass as sexually desirable until someone mentions the dirty word and you have to wonder how many of those on that show would indeed have slept with her without the stigma. I have to admit I'm not well-versed on the biology/practicality of full MTF genital surgery though.

Sadly I think a lot of transphobia is going to be peddled because India happens to be a self-centred, ignorant drama queen, and that's not fair on her or anyone who's a little less whiney.

[Livia]

Not being attracted to someone isn't racist. If someone's not into black guys, I think that's just like not being into blonde guys, or guys with tats. For some men, dating India would be like dating a man, she looks like a man - I'm stating that as a fact and not to be insulting. We can't all pretend that fancy everyone so as not to offend, surely! I'm pretty sure there are men out there who wouldn't date me for a variety of reasons... and one of them would be because I'm Jewish. My reaction is that it's their loss.

[bots]

She didn't put herself across well at all but that could very easily have been a disaster area for Ginuwine.

Whilst she made it about herself and everyone seemed to think she was just upset because he wouldn't go for her, she did have a point to be fair in that writing off an entire demographic is a little bit ignorant. It's not acceptable for people to say "I wouldn't date/marry/**** black guys" so this isn't really that different. Might not have found one attractive yet, and the biology might be confusing/off-putting, but it's still a sweeping generalisation, and something that a lot of people can excuse their bigotries with calling it "a preference".

Reminds me of that Sky show about 15 years ago, 'There's Something About Miriam'. It's very possible for people to pass as sexually desirable until someone mentions the dirty word and you have to wonder how many of those on that show would indeed have slept with her without the stigma. I have to admit I'm not well-versed on the biology/practicality of full MTF genital surgery though.

Sadly I think a lot of transphobia is going to be peddled because India happens to be a self-centred, ignorant drama queen, and that's not fair on her or anyone who's a little less whiney.

I wouldn't go out with a guy, that's writing off an entire demographic too and perfectly acceptable. Sometimes its ok :shrug:

[Gusto Brunt]

calling India a woman is shocking indeed, since i still see many male things about her :eek:

i do get the feeling India went into CBB to argue, moan, whine and make everything go on about her :mad:

:joker::joker:

[MTVN]

She didn't put herself across well at all but that could very easily have been a disaster area for Ginuwine.

Whilst she made it about herself and everyone seemed to think she was just upset because he wouldn't go for her, she did have a point to be fair in that writing off an entire demographic is a little bit ignorant. It's not acceptable for people to say "I wouldn't date/marry/**** black guys" so this isn't really that different. Might not have found one attractive yet, and the biology might be confusing/off-putting, but it's still a sweeping generalisation, and something that a lot of people can excuse their bigotries with calling it "a preference".

Reminds me of that Sky show about 15 years ago, 'There's Something About Miriam'. It's very possible for people to pass as sexually desirable until someone mentions the dirty word and you have to wonder how many of those on that show would indeed have slept with her without the stigma. I have to admit I'm not well-versed on the biology/practicality of full MTF genital surgery though.

Sadly I think a lot of transphobia is going to be peddled because India happens to be a self-centred, ignorant drama queen, and that's not fair on her or anyone who's a little less whiney.

:clap2:

[waterhog]

we all have preferences that we find attractive and are draw to people. just because you say it - does not make you wrong.


I am looking for a long term lover that can stomach ???? poetry. and I will promise her a love of my life poem every day of my life. but she can not be called narcissis ?

[Livia]

I wonder what the answer would be if someone asked Ginuwine whether he would date someone born a woman... who is over 50. I can guess what the answer would be and I doubt any of the 50+ women in there would go and throw themselves on the bed sobbing.

[Jake.]

Not being attracted to someone isn't racist. If someone's not into black guys, I think that's just like not being into blonde guys, or guys with tats. For some men, dating India would be like dating a man, she looks like a man - I'm stating that as a fact and not to be insulting. We can't all pretend that fancy everyone so as not to offend, surely! I'm pretty sure there are men out there who wouldn't date me for a variety of reasons... and one of them would be because I'm Jewish. My reaction is that it's their loss.

But Ginuwine said he wouldn’t date any trans woman, didn’t he? Not just India? So it wouldn’t matter how much of a woman they looked

[Shaun]

Not being attracted to someone isn't racist. If someone's not into black guys, I think that's just like not being into blonde guys, or guys with tats. For some men, dating India would be like dating a man, she looks like a man - I'm stating that as a fact and not to be insulting. We can't all pretend that fancy everyone so as not to offend, surely! I'm pretty sure there are men out there who wouldn't date me for a variety of reasons... and one of them would be because I'm Jewish. My reaction is that it's their loss.

It's generalising every single black person as the same - not worthy of your body, how is it not racist? :laugh: It's not hateful, sure, but I'm entirely uncomfortable with just going "no jews, no latinos" or whatever on a dating profile. Maybe I'm just not fussy :p

I wouldn't go out with a guy, that's writing off an entire demographic too and perfectly acceptable. Sometimes its ok :shrug:

An interesting point but is more down to your requirement of a sexual partner (presumably, not a penis) rather than something like their skin colour, hair colour, operation history etc.

[chuff me dizzy]

But Ginuwine said he wouldn’t date any trans woman, didn’t he? Not just India? So it wouldn’t matter how much of a woman they looked

But that is his choice and no one can tell him he's wrong

[Jake.]

But that is his choice and no one can tell him he's wrong

I didn’t say it wasn’t his choice, I was clarifying what he’d said

[Livia]

It's generalising every single black person as the same - not worthy of your body, how is it not racist? :laugh: It's not hateful, sure, but I'm entirely uncomfortable with just going "no jews, no latinos" or whatever on a dating profile. Maybe I'm just not fussy :p




Well, that is what I heard............

[Livia]

But Ginuwine said he wouldn’t date any trans woman, didn’t he? Not just India? So it wouldn’t matter how much of a woman they looked

Maybe he's just not attracted to transsexuals. I don't see a problem with that. Not everyone fancies everyone.

[optimisticcynic]

She didn't put herself across well at all but that could very easily have been a disaster area for Ginuwine.

Whilst she made it about herself and everyone seemed to think she was just upset because he wouldn't go for her, she did have a point to be fair in that writing off an entire demographic is a little bit ignorant. It's not acceptable for people to say "I wouldn't date/marry/**** black guys" so this isn't really that different. Might not have found one attractive yet, and the biology might be confusing/off-putting, but it's still a sweeping generalisation, and something that a lot of people can excuse their bigotries with calling it "a preference".

Reminds me of that Sky show about 15 years ago, 'There's Something About Miriam'. It's very possible for people to pass as sexually desirable until someone mentions the dirty word and you have to wonder how many of those on that show would indeed have slept with her without the stigma. I have to admit I'm not well-versed on the biology/practicality of full MTF genital surgery though.

Sadly I think a lot of transphobia is going to be peddled because India happens to be a self-centred, ignorant drama queen, and that's not fair on her or anyone who's a little less whiney.

Arguing that stating you would not knowingly get together with a trans person is ignorant is flawed logic, as that makes heterosexual men and women instantly homophobic. “How can they say they’re straight when they haven’t met everyone of the same sex yet?”
Agreeing that people have the right to determine how they want to live does not necessarily dictate that they should agree with the rationale behind the decision. As with religion, I may respect that someone converts to Catholicism, but I don’t have to genuflect whenever I walk past a cross.
How can anyone demanding the right to identify as they desire criticise others for doing the same thing?
Sounds like in this instance a main driver is an external locus of validation and a need to accordingly assert control through her own sense of gender identity. This is abusive, especially whee others might be paralysed by a fear of offending, and India is clever enough to be aware of this.

[MTVN]

Imo there's a false equivalency being made between refusing to date a transwoman and just preferring blondes or not wanting to go out with older women which misses the point that India is trying to make. Being a transsexual is not an aspect of appearance. By refusing to even entertain the idea of being with a transwoman you are putting up an insurmountable barrier to a transwomans hopes of being accepted as a woman at all.

[Brillopad]

I wonder what the answer would be if someone asked Ginuwine whether he would date someone born a woman... who is over 50. I can guess what the answer would be and I doubt any of the 50+ women in there would go and throw themselves on the bed sobbing.

Exactly. It is not up to some to decide who others should/should not want to date. We all have personal preferences from the large to the small. No one wants to live in that kind of nanny state.

[bots]

Imo there's a false equivalency being made between refusing to date a transwoman and just preferring blondes or not wanting to go out with older women which misses the point that India is trying to make. Being a transsexual is not an aspect of appearance. By refusing to even entertain the idea of being with a transwoman you are putting up an insurmountable barrier to a transwomans hopes of being accepted as a woman at all.

Well, they are trans women rather than women, a topic that has been thrashed around in recent days. There is a big difference and that's where sexual preference comes in. Its not discriminatory as it is a preference.

[Livia]

Imo there's a false equivalency being made between refusing to date a transwoman and just preferring blondes or not wanting to go out with older women which misses the point that India is trying to make. Being a transsexual is not an aspect of appearance. By refusing to even entertain the idea of being with a transwoman you are putting up an insurmountable barrier to a transwomans hopes of being accepted as a woman at all.



Trans women have been men. Surely they must know that not all men will want to be with someone who has a manmade vagina and who used to be a male. Alternatively there will be other men who adore trans women.

And as for acceptance... there is a huge section of society that doesn't see trans women as "real women". Because they're not. They are transsexual women. I've said this before but it's worth saying again... transsexual women are not the same as those of us born a woman... but they are worth exactly the same.

[Brillopad]

Arguing that stating you would not knowingly get together with a trans person is ignorant is flawed logic, as that makes heterosexual men and women instantly homophobic. “How can they say they’re straight when they haven’t met everyone of the same sex yet?”
Agreeing that people have the right to determine how they want to live does not necessarily dictate that they should agree with the rationale behind the decision. As with religion, I may respect that someone converts to Catholicism, but I don’t have to genuflect whenever I walk past a cross.
How can anyone demanding the right to identify as they desire criticise others for doing the same thing?
Sounds like in this instance a main driver is an external locus of validation and a need to accordingly assert control through her own sense of gender identity. This is abusive, especially whee others might be paralysed by a fear of offending, and India is clever enough to be aware of this.

Good post and very true.

[Withano]

I'm sure there are some out there who would only date transgenders. There is at least some 'preference' in it - it doesnt instantly come down to transphobia.

I get why India is upset in a way, but I think she's too self-centric to understand any type of negativity related to her.

[jaxie]

She didn't put herself across well at all but that could very easily have been a disaster area for Ginuwine.

Whilst she made it about herself and everyone seemed to think she was just upset because he wouldn't go for her, she did have a point to be fair in that writing off an entire demographic is a little bit ignorant. It's not acceptable for people to say "I wouldn't date/marry/**** black guys" so this isn't really that different. Might not have found one attractive yet, and the biology might be confusing/off-putting, but it's still a sweeping generalisation, and something that a lot of people can excuse their bigotries with calling it "a preference".

Reminds me of that Sky show about 15 years ago, 'There's Something About Miriam'. It's very possible for people to pass as sexually desirable until someone mentions the dirty word and you have to wonder how many of those on that show would indeed have slept with her without the stigma. I have to admit I'm not well-versed on the biology/practicality of full MTF genital surgery though.

Sadly I think a lot of transphobia is going to be peddled because India happens to be a self-centred, ignorant drama queen, and that's not fair on her or anyone who's a little less whiney.

I am not a gay man, therefore I would not date a gay man. Is that any more clear? It's certainly not ignorant at all. Genuwine saying I am a straight man and would not date a trans woman is no different. It's not transphobia at all, just like a gay man, a straight man is allowed a preference.

[MTVN]

Trans women have been men. Surely they must know that not all men will want to be with someone who has a manmade vagina and who used to be a male. Alternatively there will be other men who adore trans women.

And as for acceptance... there is a huge section of society that doesn't see trans women as "real women". Because they're not. They are transsexual women. I've said this before but it's worth saying again... transsexual women are not the same as those of us born a woman... but they are worth exactly the same.

Well, they are trans women rather than women, a topic that has been thrashed around in recent days. There is a big difference and that's where sexual preference comes in. Its not discriminatory as it is a preference.

I appreciate that a lot of people do not consider transwomen to be women, but while that view might be common enough it would still be insulting to transwomen and it's not surprising they'd be hurt by it

[optimisticcynic]

Imo there's a false equivalency being made between refusing to date a transwoman and just preferring blondes or not wanting to go out with older women which misses the point that India is trying to make. Being a transsexual is not an aspect of appearance. By refusing to even entertain the idea of being with a transwoman you are putting up an insurmountable barrier to a transwomans hopes of being accepted as a woman at all.

“Hope” is the key term here. The hope that others see you as you wish to be seen is not a “right”. Nothing can be so simple. My belief that I am heterosexual is likely as upsetting for anyone who is non-binary but was born in a male category, but this is a reality based on my experiences and desires. I am sad that it may cause them sadness, but as long as my sexual attraction to them is the only way that they are excluded, this is a fact of life. If something in my life changes this, then I review my stance and metamorphosise into my next stage of life. This may have happened for some regarding trans people had India not been such an unstable, self-loathing, projecting tosspot. If she is the only sample of the transgender community that some of the public have ever encountered, imagine the damage she is doing.

[chuff me dizzy]

I appreciate that a lot of people do not consider transwomen to be women, but while that view might be common enough it would still be insulting to transwomen and it's not surprising they'd be hurt by it

But its true ,they are not a full blown woman and never can be

[Brillopad]

I appreciate that a lot of people do not consider transwomen to be women, but while that view might be common enough it would still be insulting to transwomen and it's not surprising they'd be hurt by it

We all get hurt by rejection. It is a fact of life for all of us that we cannot be protected from. India is no exception. For crying out loud she is over 50 and needs to grow up.

[bots]

I appreciate that a lot of people do not consider transwomen to be women, but while that view might be common enough it would still be insulting to transwomen and it's not surprising they'd be hurt by it

If we take it right back to basics, and this is very applicable in the case of Ginuwine as he has 9 kids. To many in society, procreation is about bringing new generations into the world, its a base instinct across all animals for survival of the species. To interfere with that natural process is next to impossible as it is in the DNA

[Vicky.]

gender and sex are 2 different things. 1 of them is real the other is not.

:thumbs:

Gender is a social construct...nothing more than personality + dress sense when it comes down to it. Sex is real, and unchangeable with science as it stands today, and India does not even slightly 'pass' so India has no chance with anyone who is solely attracted to female people.

[Vicky.]

Imo there's a false equivalency being made between refusing to date a transwoman and just preferring blondes or not wanting to go out with older women which misses the point that India is trying to make. Being a transsexual is not an aspect of appearance. By refusing to even entertain the idea of being with a transwoman you are putting up an insurmountable barrier to a transwomans hopes of being accepted as a woman at all.

Its not really refusing to entertain the idea of being with a transwoman though. Its refusing to entertain the idea of being with a male person. The trans does not come into it as much as actual sex does :laugh: I know its 'trendy' to pretend sex is not real and does not matter these days, so I am pretty old school in my views, but sex does actually matter and to say it does not, is homophobic and actually heterophobic (if I believed that was a thing, just for sake of argument) at the same time!

[optimisticcynic]

:thumbs:

Gender is a social construct...nothing more than personality + dress sense when it comes down to it. Sex is real, and unchangeable with science as it stands today, and India does not even slightly 'pass' so India has no chance with anyone who is solely attracted to female people.

There is often an issue differentiating between gender identity and gender role. I am happy to admit that I am baffled as to how people can be born “the wrong gender”. People are born as they are born, and may decide to do something about this at a later time. That is completely their call. But to identify the birth status as a mistake suggests predestination which makes little scientific sense. Is it possible that gender role which is so variable between cultures and times is more at the root of dissonance experienced? Can you be born the wrong race? Wasn’t there huge outrage when religious groups have claimes that people have been born with the wrong sexuality and that this can and should be “fixed”?
Intrigued to know more.

[Livia]

I appreciate that a lot of people do not consider transwomen to be women, but while that view might be common enough it would still be insulting to transwomen and it's not surprising they'd be hurt by it

Similarly, when I have worked really hard as a woman in a male dominated workplace, to get to the position I'm in, I find it insulting to be told that someone who transitioned at 50 is the same as I am, and I would be hurt by it. India got to 50 enjoying all the privilege and advantage of being a white man.

They are worth as much, but trans women are not the same as born women. And no one has the right to tell me I am not entitled to that opinion.

[Livia]

Its not really refusing to entertain the idea of being with a transwoman though. Its refusing to entertain the idea of being with a male person. The trans does not come into it as much as actual sex does :laugh: I know its 'trendy' to pretend sex is not real and does not matter these days, so I am pretty old school in my views, but sex does actually matter and to say it does not, is homophobic and actually heterophobic (if I believed that was a thing, just for sake of argument) at the same time!

Great post.

[Vicky.]

There is often an issue differentiating between gender identity and gender role. I am happy to admit that I am baffled as to how people can be born “the wrong gender”. People are born as they are born, and may decide to do something about this at a later time. That is completely their call. But to identify the biryh status as a mistake suggests predestination which majes litgle scientific sense. Is it possible that gender role which is so variable between cultures and times is more at the root of dissonance experienced? Can you be born the wrong race? Wasn’t there huge outrage when religious groups have claimes that people have been born with the wrong sexuality and that this can and should be “fixed”?
Intrigued to know more.

Apparently not, but I actually do not see the difference between transgender and transracial, but apparently one is horrendous and the other totally fine :shrug: The arguments seem to be exactly the same for both, to me.

If we did not live in such a 'gendered' society, I really doubt many trans people would exist, if men could wear dresses and sparkles without other people taking the piss and such. There would still be people with sex dysphoria, much in the way there will still be anorexic people even if the world stops being so obsessed with thinness...but there would not be as many as there are today, thats for sure. For so many 'transgender' people it seems to be about stereotypes rather than body. And its body, not stereotypes that make someone male or female. FFS if we are going on stereotypes followed, I am actually male. if we are going on 'internal gender identity' then I do not exist at all as I do not have one and do not believe in souls.

[Marsh.]

It's generalising every single black person as the same - not worthy of your body, how is it not racist? [emoji23] It's not hateful, sure, but I'm entirely uncomfortable with just going "no jews, no latinos" or whatever on a dating profile. Maybe I'm just not fussy [emoji14]



An interesting point but is more down to your requirement of a sexual partner (presumably, not a penis) rather than something like their skin colour, hair colour, operation history etc.
Tbf it's not about deciding someone is not "worthy" of your body.

You're either sexually attracted to them or you're not.

[MTVN]

Its not really refusing to entertain the idea of being with a transwoman though. Its refusing to entertain the idea of being with a male person. The trans does not come into it as much as actual sex does :laugh: I know its 'trendy' to pretend sex is not real and does not matter these days, so I am pretty old school in my views, but sex does actually matter and to say it does not, is homophobic and actually heterophobic (if I believed that was a thing, just for sake of argument) at the same time!

Well might be a dumb question.. but why does sex matter? What's so important about a person's initial biological makeup if, as you say, it does not define gender?

[Vicky.]

Well might be a dumb question.. but why does sex matter? What's so important about a person's initial biological makeup if, as you say, it does not define gender?

Because people have sexualities based on...sex. Or are you going to be another saying that people should effectively get over their sexualities? :suspect:

Sex matters. Trans people rarely pass. Especially transwomen.

Would you shag India?

Even if trans people pass..SRS is not advanced enough to be the same as a biological opposite sex body. Its unfortunately for trans people, but thats how it is.

[Tom4784]

It's just a matter of preference, nothing wrong with it and you can't really help who you are attracted to or not. Some people prefer certain builds or hair colours, some people just aren't attracted to certain things and I don't think that's prejudice in any way shape or form.

Malika pretty much nailed the situation on the head.

[MTVN]

Because people have sexualities based on...sex. Or are you going to be another saying that people should effectively get over their sexualities? :suspect:

Sex matters. Trans people rarely pass. Especially transwomen.

Would you shag India?

Well I dunno, I dont know how sexuality works lol. I'm not sure about India but there are a lot of transwomen who I think most straight men would be sexually attracted to if they didn't know they were trans

[Vicky.]

Well I dunno, I dont know how sexuality works lol. I'm not sure about India but there are a lot of transwomen who I think most straight men would be sexually attracted to if they didn't know they were trans

It does become a bit more complicated if the transperson passes as the sex they want to be, granted. But even then there are issues about...transwomen will most likely have a dick, and if not then they will not have an actual vagina, which is kind of a dealbreaker for a lot of people.

If someone passed 100% as a woman, could you shag them and their penis? Or get over the fact that their vagina is not a vagina, its an open wound that needs dilating and is either made of inverted penis or colon? Nothing like a 'real' vagina'.

I know this is personal...just curious how many men would be able to get over their sexuality in that way, as I suspect a lot of people just pay lip service to it and would not actually be able to do it. I am bi and still could not see myself ever with a transperson...and sex is not even important for me as I like both!

[Brillopad]

Well I dunno, I dont know how sexuality works lol. I'm not sure about India but there are a lot of transwomen who I think most straight men would be sexually attracted to if they didn't know they were trans

But that is a facade. It isn’t exactly as it says on the tin is it. The psychological aspect is equally as important to many as the physical aspect. All the critique in the world cannot change the feelings of the innermost sanctum. To many it just wouldn’t feel right which would kill the sexual attraction.

[MTVN]

It does become a bit more complicated if the transperson passes as the sex they want to be, granted. But even then there are issues about...transwomen will most likely have a dick, and if not then they will not have an actual vagina, which is kind of a dealbreaker for a lot of people.

If someone passed 100% as a woman, could you shag them and their penis? Or get over the fact that their vagina is not a vagina, its an open wound that needs dilating and is either made of inverted penis or colon? Nothing like a 'real' vagina'.

I know this is personal...just curious how many men would be able to get over their sexuality in that way, as I suspect a lot of people just pay lip service to it and would not actually be able to do it. I am bi and still could not see myself ever with a transperson...and sex is not even important for me as I like both!

Well when you put it like that..

I mean the honest answer is I wouldn't know until the situation arose, its not like physical and even sexual attraction is solely defined by how the genitals look though

[Vicky.]

Well when you put it like that..

I mean the honest answer is I wouldn't know until the situation arose, its not like physical and even sexual attraction is solely defined by how the genitals look though

Well no, but I don't know about you...genitals are a pretty big part of my sex life :p

[Marsh.]

Well when you put it like that..

I mean the honest answer is I wouldn't know until the situation arose, its not like physical and even sexual attraction is solely defined by how the genitals look though
Well most genitals are pretty gross looking tbh.

But doesn't it go beyond that? A false penis won't feel like a real one and neither will a false vagina. And how it feels impacts your sex life in a big way. [emoji23]

[Vicky.]

Put quite simply, if sex did not matter...then everyone would be bi. But sex does matter, hence heterosexual, homosexual AND bi. I find this pretending that sexuality needs to be 'got over', that sex is not a real thing, or that strap ons are the same as real dicks...fairly offensive actually. As is the instance in a few places that its horrendous and bigotted if someone would not consider shagging a transperson...as if it a transwoman is exactly the same as a woman, and a transman is exactly the same as a man. Ignoring the fact that its NOT the same as scientists have not discovered how to do total body swaps yet.

I mean, we can pretend we think there is no difference, but its not true it is. Its 'nice' to pretend you cannot see a difference between India and the other women in there, to pretend that a person who spend 50 years as a man and now looks vaguely like a woman due to advances in plastic surgery and messing around with synthetic hormones, is the same as someone who is a biological woman, but its just lies.

[Vicky.]

Well most genitals are pretty gross looking tbh.


Well yes, not exactly the prettiest things :D

[MTVN]

Well most genitals are pretty gross looking tbh.

But doesn't it go beyond that? A false penis won't feel like a real one and neither will a false vagina. And how it feels impacts your sex life in a big way. [emoji23]

Sure but lots of things can affect your sex life, it might not be the same but it might still be better than sex with a 'normal male/female sometimes is

I mean straight men and women obviously do go out with and marry transwomen and transmen so does that mean they're not really straight or what?

[Marsh.]

Sure but lots of things can affect your sex life, it might not be the same but it might still be better than sex with a 'normal male/female sometimes is

I mean straight men and women obviously do go out with and marry transwomen and transmen so does that mean they're not really straight or what?
I don't know what it means for their sexual orientation tbh. There's 100s of labels these days that I don't even know what they mean. [emoji23]

I was just saying that the trans people who are post op, their genitals are still not the same as the real thing so it's a valid reason to be turned off by the artificial ones.

[jaxie]

Sure but lots of things can affect your sex life, it might not be the same but it might still be better than sex with a 'normal male/female sometimes is

I mean straight men and women obviously do go out with and marry transwomen and transmen so does that mean they're not really straight or what?

Gay men sometimes marry women, does it make them not gay?

[MTVN]

I don't know what it means for their sexual orientation tbh. There's 100s of labels these days that I don't even know what they mean. [emoji23]

I was just saying that the trans people who are post op, their genitals are still not the same as the real thing so it's a valid reason to be turned off by the artificial ones.

Yeah I can see that it's a turn off, I'm not convinced this all impacts someone's sexuality though

Gay men sometimes marry women, does it make them not gay?

Gay men living a lie, are you saying straight men who marry transwomen are living a lie or what :shrug:

[Marsh.]

Oh. It depends.

It would be like saying a straight woman who marries an effeminate man must be gay or bi. [emoji23]

[Marsh.]

But speaking of the genitals. How do they get erect?

Is the surgery that good or do they have to blow it up?

[Vicky.]

But speaking of the genitals. How do they get erect?

Is the surgery that good or do they have to blow it up?

A pump inside one of the testicles :S

[Marsh.]

A pump inside one of the testicles :S
:joker:

Not here for them pulling a foot pump out.

[Marsh.]

How does the vagina get wet? Or do I not want to know? :/

[Crimson Dynamo]

feck me you would need plan having sex a week before

2 trips to BQ and you would be ready

[Vicky.]

How does the vagina get wet? Or do I not want to know? :/

The ones made from colon have a natural lubricant (as guts...have a lubricant :umm2: ). Other I expect needs lube.

[Marsh.]

The ones made from colon have a natural lubricant (as guts...have a lubricant :umm2: ). Other I expect needs lube.
But surely that would make it wet all the time. :omgno:

[Vicky.]

I don't know. Tbh the thought of a vagina made out of ass weirded me out too much. I have done a lot of reading on trans stuff in the past year but that one just freaked me out way too much to read beyond the basics D:

[chuff me dizzy]

Jesus ,my dinners nearly ready :joker:

[Vicky.]

I do know, since we are going into that territory, that a common side effect is growing hair INSIDE the 'vagina'. Which is a charming thought.

[Marsh.]

I don't know. Tbh the thought of a vagina made out of ass weirded me out too much. I have done a lot of reading on trans stuff in the past year but that one just freaked me out way too much to read beyond the basics D:
:joker:

[Marsh.]

I do know, since we are going into that territory, that a common side effect is growing hair INSIDE the 'vagina'. Which is a charming thought.
They use the actual hairy ass? :/

[Vicky.]

They use the actual hairy ass? :/

Oh no, this is the penile inversion method I think. Just remember reading a lot of people pretty distraught on reddit asktransgender about how they have finally gone through with the invasive surgery and it looks nothing like a vagina, has next to no feeling and has started sprouting hair from the inside. The replies said this was common.

[Marsh.]

Oh no, this is the penile inversion method I think. Just remember reading a lot of people pretty distraught on reddit asktransgender about how they have finally gone through with the invasive surgery and it looks nothing like a vagina, has next to no feeling and has started sprouting hair from the inside. The replies said this was common.
Yikes.

[Vicky.]

Yikes.

This is how I am not understanding people saying that fake vagina/penises are anything like the real thing tbh. Its clearly hugely different. Even ones that 'go right' with no side effects are nothing like real ones.

[Marsh.]

This is how I am not understanding people saying that fake vagina/penises are anything like the real thing tbh. Its clearly hugely different. Even ones that 'go right' with no side effects are nothing like real ones.
Definitely.

I mean at its core sex is a pretty gross activity but this is making me feel sick. :worry:

[Rob!]

Marsh to book himself an appointment?

[Crimson Dynamo]

gives new meaning to a front bottom

:omgno:

[Rob!]

Gives new meaning to anal tbh.

[Marsh.]

Marsh to book himself an appointment?
:joker:

[Marsh.]

gives new meaning to a front bottom

:omgno:
I hope they give it a rinse under the tap.

[Cherie]

Definitely.

I mean at its core sex is a pretty gross activity but this is making me feel sick. :worry:

:joker:

[Cherie]

Jesus ,my dinners nearly ready :joker:

My dinner is in its way back up :laugh:

[Northern Monkey]

I do know, since we are going into that territory, that a common side effect is growing hair INSIDE the 'vagina'. Which is a charming thought.

Maybe where the term “beaver” came from?

:joker: