BBC News: Is it discriminatory to refuse to date a trans woman?

[Jase.]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-42652947?ocid=socialflow_twitter

Thoughts?

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oFzmoCqKGqzvhFhNS/giphy.gif

[Osjama]

Influence of India tho
https://media.giphy.com/media/3oFzmoCqKGqzvhFhNS/giphy.gif

[TomC]

I would honestly say no. It's a sexual choice. The truth is she was a male biologically, and it's quite alright, and not discriminatory to refuse to date a certain sex when you take transgenderism out of the equation.

[thisisdanny]

India's impact :clap1:

[Lister of Smeg]

This is what the TV Licence money goes towards :facepalm:

[Withano]

Its an interesting debate, and I can see the logic behind both sides of the argument

[Vicky.]

No it is not. A transwoman is a male person. If a guy is straight, he is perfectly within his rights to say no to dating a male person. As are lesbians. And ditto straight women dating transmen or gay men and transmen.

Its actually fairly rapey to say that anyone should shag anyone else or be called a bigot. Coercion is not good.

[Parmy]

Whos making me?

[Osjama]

Its an interesting debate, and I can see the logic behind both sides of the argument

Ye I personally don’t think most, if not all, of the people that wouldn’t date a trans person due it with the intention to discriminate but I do feel that it does unintentionally discriminate against them.
It’s a bit of a grey area most people don’t really get bc they’ve never really encountered trans people but I don’t think it’s as black as white as ‘well u don’t shame gay people for their preferences’ ect

[Alf]

Is it discriminatory to refuse to date me?

The answers are the same.

[Vicky.]

Not getting sex =/= discrimination ffs

[Vicky.]

Saying it is discriminatory to not date a trans person, is basically saying sexuality is a choice that you should 'get over' if its going to upset someone else. Which is clearly ridiculous.

I may get a little too worked up in this thread due to knowing loads of lesbians who have already been called transphobic/bigots over this issue, and one who was seriously assaulted due to refusing a penis that she did not know was there until she was alone with the person :bored:

[Jamie89]

No. Refusing to date someone isn't 'prejudicial treatment'.

I'd imagine that people who are discriminatory or transphobic would say they wouldn't date a transperson because of their prejudice, but the actual refusal of going on the date isn't an act of discrimination in itself. And there are so many reasons why someone might not want to that have nothing to do with prejudice, and honestly, even if prejudice is involved, when it comes to dating and sex I think people should be entitled to that. It's always good to question yourself and your motives and how you view and treat people, but the path of making people feel like they should have to have sex with someone when they don't want to is a worrying and dangerous one (and let's be realistic this is mainly about sex).

[Withano]

Its actually fairly rapey to say that anyone should shag anyone else or be called a bigot. Coercion is not good.

Thats not the point though.. the article is discussing whether its transphobic to instantly rule out tens or hundreds of thousands of people because of their trans-status. Nobody is saying that not shagging India is transphobic (i think).

[Osjama]

Saying it is discriminatory to not date a trans person, is basically saying sexuality is a choice that you should 'get over' if its going to upset someone else. Which is clearly ridiculous.

I may get a little too worked up in this thread due to knowing loads of lesbians who have already been called transphobic/bigots over this issue, and one who was seriously assaulted due to refusing a penis that she did not know was there until she was alone with the person :bored:

Maybe discrimination isn’t the right word, I just don’t reslly feel like it’s right to dismiss trans people in mass dating wise for a presumption or a feeling that I don’t think is justified and should be moved past it. Idk I’m not saying conversion therapy for all these transphobic ppl!!! Ykno maybe it’s tough for them in ways it shouldn’t be tough for them

And I do feel there’s a bit of underline transphobia like think abt the reason why u don’t want to date this person is bc she’s trans. Maybe saying their scared of them isn’t the right way to go about it so maybe phobia doesn’t apply Idk

[Vicky.]

Thats not the point though.. the article is discussing whether its transphobic to instantly rule out tens or hundreds of thousands of people because of their trans-status. Nobody is saying that not shagging India is transphobic (i think).

Well I would wager that people do not rule out tens of thousands of people because of their trans status, but because of their sex.

Is it discriminatory to be gay? Thats ruling out a bunch of people for the same reason. As is being straight.

[Withano]

Ye I personally don’t think most, if not all, of the people that wouldn’t date a trans person due it with the intention to discriminate but I do feel that it does unintentionally discriminate against them.
It’s a bit of a grey area most people don’t really get bc they’ve never really encountered trans people but I don’t think it’s as black as white as ‘well u don’t shame gay people for their preferences’ ect

But the thing is, for me, is that there are legitimate reasons. For instance, somebody may only date people for the hope of children, and their own family, a few years along the line.

However, all transphobic people will refuse because they are transphobic and that's all there is to their logic... and I think thats where India's mind instantly jumped to...

[Marsh.]

This is what the TV Licence money goes towards :facepalm:

Oh noes at the millions that went into that one article. :rolleyes:

[Withano]

Well I would wager that people do not rule out tens of thousands of people because of their trans status, but because of their sex.
.

Yes, that is the topic we're discussing. Nobody is discussing people being made to shag people to avoid being called a bigot.

[Jarvio]

Is it discriminatory to not like certain foods?

[Vicky.]

Yes, that is the topic we're discussing. Nobody is discussing people being made to shag people to avoid being called a bigot.
Not really understanding why you cut that one sentence and replied with this..

So do you think it is discriminatory to not want to date someone because of their sex? (Taking trans out of the equation, this is essentially the question here...)

I don't.

And of course its about shagging people :laugh: And its already happening, people being called bigots for not sleeping with someone who is the opposite of the sex they are attracted to...

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

Blah blah blah blah no

[Jase.]

"Shagging" is such a British word :joker:

[Alf]

Is discriminatory to shop at Asda and not Tesco?

[Withano]

Not really understanding why you cut that one sentence and replied with this..

So do you think it is discriminatory to not want to date someone because of their sex? (Taking trans out of the equation, this is essentially the question here...)

I don't.

And of course its about shagging people :laugh: And its already happening, people being called bigots for not sleeping with someone who is the opposite of the sex they are attracted to...

I dont either at the question you asked (not every single time anyway, obviously its influenced by transphobia sometimes). But that last paragraph again isnt what anybody is talking about haha.

[Alf]

"Shagging" is such a British word :joker:The word Bonking should make a comeback.

[Vicky.]

I dont either at the question you asked (not every single time anyway, obviously its influenced by transphobia sometimes). But that last paragraph again isnt what anybody is talking about haha.

The question is implying exactly that though. Anyone who says yes it is discriminatory is saying anyone not wanting to shag (or dating, though its clearly about sex) a transperson is bigoted. Which is clearly ridiculous unless they think that sexuality can/should be just 'got over'. Which many people do think of lesbians. Kind of glad this is being brought into the public eye a bit more as its beren all 'underground'/behind closed doors so far. The more people know about these extreme opinions, the better tbh

[bots]

is it discriminatory to not want to date old people, is it discriminatory to not want to date people not in your geographic region. The whole concept of it being discriminatory is a joke

[Northern Monkey]

No it is not. A transwoman is a male person. If a guy is straight, he is perfectly within his rights to say no to dating a male person. As are lesbians. And ditto straight women dating transmen or gay men and transmen.

Its actually fairly rapey to say that anyone should shag anyone else or be called a bigot. Coercion is not good.
:clap1:
Totally 100%

Trying to sexually coerce people by guilt tripping them or blackmailing them is as you say fairly rapey.

[Northern Monkey]

is it discriminatory to not want to date old people, is it discriminatory to not want to date people not in your geographic region. The whole concept of it being discriminatory is a joke

Good point :clap1:

I can’t even believe it’s got to this stage.It’s surreal tbh

[Brother Leon]

No. It's a sexual preference.

[Withano]

The question is implying exactly that though. Anyone who says yes it is discriminatory is saying anyone not wanting to shag (or dating, though its clearly about sex) a transperson is bigoted. Which is clearly ridiculous unless they think that sexuality can/should be just 'got over'. Which many people do think of lesbians. Kind of glad this is being brought into the public eye a bit more as its beren all 'underground'/behind closed doors so far. The more people know about these extreme opinions, the better tbh

Well now we gotta talk about what people mean by 'date'. You went straight to sex, vicky! Im not sure if others did..

I guess as far as sex goes, its more about turn-ons and turn-offs, and I can see why a person might think that wanting to **** a person until they learn that they're trans is transphobic.. when actually theres more to it. Being turned off by fake tits, or fake cock isnt transphobic, being turned off by the sheer thought of transsexualism is to some people.

Thinking about it, this entire week long debate has probably just been down by individual interpretations of different words haha. Theres so many ways to think about it.

[kystal555]

No if u don't want to date a transexual they don't have to that's ridiculous most men like real woman

Sent from my KIW-L21 using Tapatalk

[smudgie]

No.
You date whoever you fancy, gay, straight, bi, or transitional (plus any I have missed out).
You can't be accountable for who turns you on.:shrug:

[jaxie]

Of course not. You can't tell people who to be attracted to. Or bully them into it.

[Vicky.]

Well now we gotta talk about what people mean by 'date'. You went straight to sex, vicky! Im not sure if others did..

I bloody hope its not just me that leapt to sex rather than dating. Surely not just me with a filthy mind :laugh:

[Alf]

I bloody hope its not just me that leapt to sex rather than dating. Surely not just me with a filthy mind :laugh:Sex mad you are.

[Tom4784]

Of course it isn't. There's not much of a debate about it to be had tbh. You can't guilt trip someone into having a relationship with someone they don't want to.

[iRyan]

I’d consider myself an ally and advocate for the trans community, but I don’t think this question should even be up for debate. Sexual preferences should never be considered discrimination.

[Marsh.]

Well now we gotta talk about what people mean by 'date'. You went straight to sex, vicky! Im not sure if others did..

I guess as far as sex goes, its more about turn-ons and turn-offs, and I can see why a person might think that wanting to **** a person until they learn that they're trans is transphobic.. when actually theres more to it. Being turned off by fake tits, or fake cock isnt transphobic, being turned off by the sheer thought of transsexualism is to some people.

Thinking about it, this entire week long debate has probably just been down by individual interpretations of different words haha. Theres so many ways to think about it.

Well if they're not someone you're ever going to want a sexual relationship with then what's the point in dating them?

[Smithy]

I think it’s a bit of a grey area, and like I said in another thread, if I was attracted to a tear and person I’d date them, but I wouldn’t want to sleep with them if I hadn’t had the work done downstairs

I think ruling out every single trans person is slightly discriminatory, say for example

https://img-buzzfeed-com.cdn.ampproject.org/ii/w1200/s/img.buzzfeed.com/buzzfeed-static/static/2016-02/2/16/enhanced/webdr01/original-19158-1454450317-18.jpg

Aydian, so without even meeting him people would rule him out just because he’s trans? I just don’t get the logic to it, every case is gonna be different so you can just generalise and say I wouldn’t date a trans person

[Vicky.]

He is pretty hot. But if he hasn't had the ops I wouldn't be interested as people who look like men and have fannys are of no interest to me. And if he had had the op done I wouldnt shag him as the constructed penises are just awful and nothing like real ones.

Either way, he probably wouldn't shag me as I am approaching middle age ( :( ) and he is much hotter than me. So I doubt he cares :laugh:

Its rare for transpeople to pass that well though and I think most people know that so will associate trans with...'women' who look like blokes, and 'blokes' who just look like butch women. Its also a seriously low number of transpeople who have full SRS so large chances are, a transwoman will have a dick, and a transman a fanjo.

[Marsh.]

His nipples look painted on. :think:

[Marsh.]

How is 30 middle age. :o

[Vicky.]

Apparently 35 is middle aged :( I am closer to 40 thaan I am to 20. Which is lovely

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

The question is implying exactly that though. Anyone who says yes it is discriminatory is saying anyone not wanting to shag (or dating, though its clearly about sex) a transperson is bigoted. Which is clearly ridiculous unless they think that sexuality can/should be just 'got over'. Which many people do think of lesbians. Kind of glad this is being brought into the public eye a bit more as its beren all 'underground'/behind closed doors so far. The more people know about these extreme opinions, the better tbh

This is how I feel, especially what you said in the end, because it's true. It should come out in the open. I think a lot of the reasons now we are seeing conversations like these on TV is because people on both sides of the issue have gotten over their personal self-consciousness and not letting their speech be dictated by those around them.

Yes, this has put politics more into the mainstream and has made certain elements that are more divisive bubble to the surface, but we're also now seeing a silent majority/middle-ground that does speak for itself now on both sides of the issues.


Anyway, would it be considered amoral if someone who boasted watching transporn chronically declared they would never date a transperson... but without having explicitly stated something clearly bigoted, can we assume their hearts and say they are bigoted without more evidence? After all, you can have sex or do certain acts for lust, but that doesn't necessarily lead to passionate love...

If I'm honest, I think this area is where gender/sexual labels cause more confusion than help us to understand our individual motivators, because sexual trysts are a different beast than marriage I think. I feel like this is where humans can't be put into boxes, because if we're honest, relationships are a bit of a social construct and instincts/urges don't necessarily play nicely with our man-made sense of order (i.e. society).. it feels like it's applying social constructs to something that normally is about being liberated from our personal boxes (i.e. porn, fantasy play, one-night stands, etc).. no one cares if they're violating social norms when they watch porn or choose a sexual partner, actually, that's the thrill sometimes isn't it?

[Lstan]

No its not. No one is owed a relationship and sex, and there is a huge difference between denying someone their rights in the general sense to denying having a relationship with them.

This is an issue that has come up in the lgbt community as I have seen lesbians being called all things under the sun for not wanting to date transwomen and its disgusting.

[Lstan]

This is what the TV Licence money goes towards :facepalm:

That and covering up paedo rings.

[Tom4784]

Apparently 35 is middle aged :( I am closer to 40 thaan I am to 20. Which is lovely

http://media.tumblr.com/cea5d46093e4f1a35c223c539e9ac29f/tumblr_inline_nc154lzjqs1r6lk7p.gif

Scott and Marsh surprising you on your next birthday?

[Merry Mockmas]

You can't help it if you might not be attracted to the person.

Transphobia or any kind of prejudice only exists when you hate them because of what they are, not because you might not be sexually attracted to them, that's my view on it anyway.

[Christmas Lights]

I'm so glad these silly debates from India now end that she's been evicted :sleep: .

It's not discriminatory to not date someone who's trans, people have their preference .

India finally figured out she ruined her own chances , yes you did cock it up you daft bint like a broken record :crazy: .

[Oliver_W]

Dating is a discriminatary process, and someone can choose not to date another person for any reason they want - and that's okay!

[Vicky.]

https://mobile.twitter.com/fedupfemme/status/953083691609272320

I have mentioned before about my lesbian friends being told they are bigoted for not wanting to shag people with penises. This thread shows the kinds of attitudes towards lesbiansism (and by extension, homosexuality or heterosexuality) in so many of the trans community. Its not as rare as some seem to think it is tbh. Its the natural conclusion of 'anyone is anything they identify as'

[ChristmasNeeve]

https://mobile.twitter.com/fedupfemme/status/953083691609272320

I have mentioned before about my lesbian friends being told they are bigoted for not wanting to shag people with penises. This thread shows the kinds of attitudes towards lesbiansism (and by extension, homosexuality or heterosexuality) in so many of the trans community. Its not as rare as some seem to think it is tbh. Its the natural conclusion of 'anyone is anything they identify as'Bloody hell :/

[bots]

vagina fetishist ... omg as a straight male thats my card marked :joker:

[Tinsel Toes]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-42652947?ocid=socialflow_twitter

Thoughts?

https://media.giphy.com/media/3oFzmoCqKGqzvhFhNS/giphy.gif

NO its not you can refuse to date anyone you bloody well like . Full stop. End of.

[Kazanne]

I don't care whether it's discriminating or not , if I didn't want to date someone I wouldn't and that includes a transgender , it's a choice. Who writes these daft things.