Are people entitled to be racist/homophobic/sexist etc

[Brillopad]

But you have only been called racist on threads where you have done that. To my knowledge, you have NOT been called racist for simply posting arguments against immigration / religion etc. People have strongly disagreed with your views on those threads and questioned why you are so fearful, but no one has shouted "hey that's racist!". Except on threads where you have shown baseless racial stereotyping / made assumptions based on race.

Can you actually show any examples of times that you or anyone else has actually been accused of racism for questioning immigration? You keep saying that it happens, but I've yet to see even one example.

I know it has happened from one or two individuals at least, many times, and others too have commented. What I will not do is trawl through posts to prove it to you or anyone else making such allegations.

I don't need to - those that know - know, those that claim they don't know have conveniently short memories. Maybe such people should do the leg-work before being so quick to label - but we all know why they do that.

[user104658]

I know it has happened from one or two individuals at least, many times, and others too have commented. What I will not do is trawl through posts to prove it to you or anyone else making such allegations.

I don't need to - those that know - know, those that claim they don't know have conveniently short memories. Maybe such people should do the leg-work before being so quick to label - but we all know why they do that.

I know you have been called racist in the past, and I can accept that it might sometimes be a snap judgement and probably never a helpful place to go (though no more than any of the other name calling), but you specifically keep making the claim that you have been called racist for being "against mass immigration", which I just don't think is true. Several people on here are against mass immigration... I'd go so far as to say that MOST people are against the idea of limitless immigration and support sensible migration policies, and I genuinely can't imagine a time when this has ever been labelled racist. It's misrepresentative to the point that there's no point even trying to sort out this whole "name calling mess" until there can be some sort of consensus on what has actually happened in the past.

Having given it some thought; I think it would probably be a good idea for TiBB (the debates section, anyway) to have a flat out policy against people being "branded as anything" at this point because it is a waste of time all round... but that is --- if and only if --- that's a bilateral thing that everyone adheres to. Which means... no more "PC gone mad", no more "PC brigade", no more "Stupid lefties", no more "snowflakes". "Who Started It" doesn't really matter; if it's going to stop, it has to stop all round, and there has to be at least some acknowledgement of the reasons for it starting in the first place... i.e. being totally against immigration is fine, so long as you're thoughtful, level-headed and clear when outlining the reasons for it, because that's the only place anyone has a problem.

[Livia]

I know it has happened from one or two individuals at least, many times, and others too have commented. What I will not do is trawl through posts to prove it to you or anyone else making such allegations.

I don't need to - those that know - know, those that claim they don't know have conveniently short memories. Maybe such people should do the leg-work before being so quick to label - but we all know why they do that.

There's no denying it, Brillo. Anyone not left of centre has been sniped at by someone on the Left... and Brexit just added fuel to the flames. There's not much impartiality on here, and reacting just gets you infracted and banned. But don't think that others haven't noticed your treatment.

[user104658]

There's no denying it, Brillo. Anyone not left of centre has been sniped at by someone on the Left... and Brexit just added fuel to the flames. There's not much impartiality on here, and reacting just gets you infracted and banned. But don't think that others haven't noticed your treatment.

Are you genuinely trying to suggest that those on here who are right of centre are innocent of "sniping at people"? You're literally sniping at people... in this very post... :umm2: come on.

[Tom4784]

What hatred? There you go again with the hate. What are my views exactly - that I have issues with mass immigration and the wearing of Burkhas in Britain- what a hateful person that makes me. I shoud be strung up! What exactly have I said that deserves ‘anything more’?

‘Prejudices are prejudices, but peoples’ opinions are not prejudices just because you want them to be. That you think you can rationalise your hatefulness against a group of people behind some false prejudice label is disgusting and goes against every principle you claim to uphold.

Just because you have come to a conclusion on a group of people does not make it a universal truth. Closing the windows of discussion and opening a window of blind hate is prejudice in itself. And that is exactly the type of mentality that enabled people to behave so terribly to other groups in the past, be they African Americans, gays Jews, etc’.

Not my words - but so very true. Your opinions are not fact because you say they are and do not therefore justify your actions. You love to take the moral high ground and put labels on others in an attempt to shut down opinions to your views. Prejudice exists in all shapes and sizes but you attach that label to others in your futile attempt to control their opinions, or at least the expression of said opinions. It makes you no better and no different to what you accuse them off. So carry on revelling in the illusion of moral superiority - as it is just that an illusion.

For the love of ****ing God, Brillo. Read my post, read it properly. Don't just zero in on one word and make assumptions about the rest because you've completely shown yourself up here.

People who have spoken out against racism, Homophobia, sexism and equality have faced the consequences of doing so for years. People have been killed for their views by others wanting to hold on to their hatred. Is that not enough for you?

Unless you've killed people for speaking out against inequality then does this sentence apply to you? Obviously it doesn't. You act like you are the only person to ever face 'consequences' for your views (Your quote 'it's about time that people on both sides face consequences'), I'm saying that people have been killed for speaking out about racism and homophobia and the like, people have died to try to right these wrongs and you are pretending that it didn't happen just because you can't deal with any accusations of racism whether it's aimed at you or anyone else.

Again, I'm going to link the following thread where people did accuse you of racism.

http://www.thisisbigbrother.com/forums/showthread.php?t=321734&highlight=http+www+dailymail+co+uk+news+article+46 35394+school+accused+slavery+focing+boy+wash+dishe s+html

You saw a name and a boy with a brown face and you instantly made disparaging assumptions about him and his mother's lives and values. If somebody is going to use that point as an argument to say you have racist tendencies then that's down to them, it's their opinion to do so.

It's down to you to try to combat those accusations, to try to prevent people from speaking their opinions, you are trying to silencing them. Something you often feel like you are victim of yet it doesn't stop you doing so to others.

I think your problem with this comes down to your old issue of not really understanding the difference between a fact or an opinion unless it's signposted for you. If someone says 'you are a racist and here's why' that's not them speaking a 'universal truth' that's them stating their opinion and qualifying it. I've noticed that, often, unless someone puts something like 'in my opinion' you'll often think that the person is trying to say their opinion is a fact when it's obvious to everyone it's just an opinion. People shouldn't have to say their opinion is an opinion because it should be obvious to you. Pretty much everything you said in this post comes from a lack of understanding of what is a fact and what is an opinion.

[Livia]

Are you genuinely trying to suggest that those on here who are right of centre are innocent of "sniping at people"? You're literally sniping at people... in this very post... :umm2: come on.

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying... probably quite poorly because I'm quite busy... that people get sick and tired of being question aggressively by a group of people, but being laughed at complete with laughing emoticons. Usually, that group is on the left, but not exclusively. One of the people I admired most on this forum was so far left you could hardly see him... and in the end he got sick of it and left.

I just wanted to tell Brillo how I saw it, because she gets more crap thrown at her, more ridicule, more name-calling than anyone else on the forum.

[Tom4784]

How DARE people question others in a serious debate!

[Kazanne]

No, I'm not saying that. I'm saying... probably quite poorly because I'm quite busy... that people get sick and tired of being question aggressively by a group of people, but being laughed at complete with laughing emoticons. Usually, that group is on the left, but not exclusively. One of the people I admired most on this forum was so far left you could hardly see him... and in the end he got sick of it and left.

I just wanted to tell Brillo how I saw it, because she gets more crap thrown at her, more ridicule, more name-calling than anyone else on the forum.

Yes :clap1::clap1: I have commented on it before I know for a fact as soon as brillo posts,I know who will be in the thread pulling her posts apart,I see it,I don't comment much as it's pointless ,infact I will go as far to say one poster is a bit of a bully,that's how they come across and yes it's been noticed by a few.It's ok to disagree with someone,but to belittle them and be hostile is not on:nono: I don't like people who try to be smartarses and fail miserably.

[Tom4784]

The accusation of bullying is just another attempt to silence people who have the right to criticse what anyone else says. If you say something that people will disagree with then it's just as much their right to voice their opposing opinion as it is for you to voice it in the first place.

Kazanne, you say it's not okay to belittle someone but what do you have to say about all of the terms Brillo uses such as snowflake? Leftie? Remoaner? ETC? The only purpose of those terms are to be hostile and belittling towards people. If you have a problem with accusations of racism then what's your stance on Brillo's uses of these terms?

[Maru]

The terms racist, homophobic, sexist, etc that this poll highlights get tossed around on this forum like it's candy on Halloween. So understandably (though this is definitely not my approach :laugh:) some people will toss PC, Leftist Bullying, misandric, etc gets tossed back...

I'm very reluctant respond to this poll for example, because it feels like another setup to be brought into character assassinations, which comes from both ends tbqf.

I don't even think the issue is the words being tossed about, as much as people are feeling baited and gaslit (welcome to 2018) and feeling like they have to respond to every character attack... and the disparate modding on this board enables a persecution complex (I've seen both sides complain about mods) of sorts, because then they think they're being hand selected for their strong views.

My solution would've been to edit posts with mod sig and leave note in posts why they were edited to keep it transparent. Except we're in weird times where everyone feels like if you try to adjust their words or if it happens when certain groups are involved, then it turns into a conspiracy theory...

My question to those who answered No in the poll, when you respond with these inflammatory words and throw labels... what are you individually getting out of it? Because it isn't changing minds, clearly. I do think there are attempts to bully at times (edited, created a bit of a broad stroke there).. maybe not silence, but to create discomfort for other people on board with your strong opinions in order to starve them of breathing room... only one side can really be accused of this because obviously there is a huge minority of right-wing-ish users... but are staff responsible for picking sides? No. In my opinion, everyone should be edited as TS suggested--all baiting behavior (incendiary language), etc.. but I personally perfectly happy to ignore it (personally)

I'm just sad that we've really lost some great users to such petty ****. Most of the time SD is a dumpster fire (:laugh:), but when you're talking with the right mix of people, it can be pretty stimulating conversation than your average small talk...

[Vicky.]

There's no denying it, Brillo. Anyone not left of centre has been sniped at by someone on the Left... and Brexit just added fuel to the flames. There's not much impartiality on here, and reacting just gets you infracted and banned. But don't think that others haven't noticed your treatment.

Right, this gets brought up again and again but its simply not true.

Of all infractions given this so far this year I actually just went back over them all and these are the results

Left wing poster 18
Right wing poster 8
Unknown/BB only poster 27

So actually, it seems that the bias is against people on the left, from the figures :laugh:

I have no way of checking bans. But I am sure it would tally the same as its the infractions that lead to bans afterall :laugh:

Happy for any other mod/admin to clarify I am not talking **** too. Obviously cannot screenshot to show you this as infractions aren't even meant to be spoke of on the main board and that would be pretty unfair on those who have received infractions anyway.

[Cherie]

The terms racist, homophobic, sexist, etc that this poll highlights get tossed around on this forum like it's candy on Halloween. So understandably (though this is definitely not my approach :laugh:) some people will toss PC, Leftist Bullying, misandric, etc gets tossed back...

I'm very reluctant respond to this poll for example, because it feels like another setup to be brought into character assassinations, which comes from both ends tbqf.

I don't even think the issue is the words being tossed about, as much as people are feeling baited and gaslit (welcome to 2018) and feeling like they have to respond to every character attack... and the disparate modding on this board enables a persecution complex (I've seen both sides complain about mods) of sorts, because then they think they're being hand selected for their strong views.

My solution would've been to edit posts with mod sig and leave note in posts why they were edited to keep it transparent. Except we're in weird times where everyone feels like if you try to adjust their words or if it happens when certain groups are involved, then it turns into a conspiracy theory...

My question to those who answered No in the poll, when you respond with these inflammatory words and throw labels... what are you individually getting out of it? Because it isn't changing minds, clearly. I do think there are attempts to bully at times (edited, created a bit of a broad stroke there).. maybe not silence, but to create discomfort for other people on board with your strong opinions in order to starve them of breathing room... only one side can really be accused of this because obviously there is a huge minority of right-wing-ish users... but are staff responsible for picking sides? No. In my opinion, everyone should be edited as TS suggested--all baiting behavior (incendiary language), etc.. but I personally perfectly happy to ignore it (personally)

I'm just sad that we've really lost some great users to such petty ****. Most of the time SD is a dumpster fire (:laugh:), but when you're talking with the right mix of people, it can be pretty stimulating conversation than your average small talk...


:clap1:

[Vicky.]

My solution would've been to edit posts with mod sig and leave note in posts why they were edited to keep it transparent. Except we're in weird times where everyone feels like if you try to adjust their words or if it happens when certain groups are involved, then it turns into a conspiracy theory...


This already happens, if we edit stuff it shows that we edited it, and even when we do that we get people kicking off. Only way people would be happy was with if we stopped modding at all.and even that would not stop people moaning as then they would be saying 'well X is insulting me, why are they not banned' and such. People want modding, and harsh modding, when it suits them. Basically they want people who argue with them infracted, but think that their infractions are all bias and wrong :joker:

Back to the editing thing, as I said that function exists already but its too much of a pain in the arse to comb back through a large thread editing out obvious baiting, and then all of the quotes also. Only for the same thing to be started up again, generally its much easier to just delete the posts. If there is an otherwise decent post with a line of baiting in it though or a random insult, we will edit rather than remove the good post. Quite rare to see good thought out posts in this section anyway, these days its all sniping and baiting tbh. Which is a big reason I am happy you are back tbh, your posts are always decent :D /arselickingover

[user104658]

I just wanted to tell Brillo how I saw it, because she gets more crap thrown at her, more ridicule, more name-calling than anyone else on the forum.

I kind of agree with that but, is there a reason for it? I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying there's an excuse for it, if Brillo is feeling marginalised and attacked then that's not a good look on anyone, I guess I'm just saying that she hasn't been picked out at random to be attacked... She has strong opinions and expresses them fairly forcefully and that invites a certain response.

I'm not even saying g it's the wrong way to be... I mean... I also have strong opinions, sometimes opinions that are a bit all over the place and I'm working through myself, and I don't exactly state them gently all of the time. And I do sometimes end up on the receiving end of some backlash for that. And I also on more than one occasion have found myself holding a very lonely line against multiple people in threads :joker:. Sometimes I enjoy it and find it stimulating, sometimes I find it frustrating and it, as much as I hate to admit it, it can affect my day overall (more due to spending hours battling and stressing in general than being upset by actual content, but still).

I guess my point is... If you choose to "go to battle" - like Brillo does, like I do, and many other TiBBers - you have to sort of accept that you're heading into potentially uncomfortable territory? There are other members who state their opinions in depth, and well, in a lower-key way and even when those opinions are very similar to those expressed by us... Battlers... They very rarely find themselves feeling the heat for it. There's a reason for that...

I guess all I'm saying is it partially is a decision. If you have strong opinions and state them bluntly, then the reply is probably going to require a thicker skin. :shrug:

[thesheriff443]

On here!, its like ants rolling the same big ball of **** from one side of the room to the other and back again over and over.

He said this and she said that, on here all opinions are worth the same and that's nothing.

[Vicky.]

I guess my point is... If you choose to "go to battle" - like Brillo does, like I do, and many other TiBBers - you have to sort of accept that you're heading into potentially uncomfortable territory? There are other members who state their opinions in depth, and well, in a lower-key way and even when those opinions are very similar to those expressed by us... Battlers... They very rarely find themselves feeling the heat for it. There's a reason for that...


Definitely agree with this. I am aware that some of my opinions are very strong, and I expect to be challenged on them.

As long as no insults are flung (and no, I do not class racist, homophobe, sexist and such as insults. No more than I think snowflake is), I genuinely do not see the problem. Surely this is the whole point of a serious debates forum :shrug:

[Ammi]

I kind of agree with that but, is there a reason for it? I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying there's an excuse for it, if Brillo is feeling marginalised and attacked then that's not a good look on anyone, I guess I'm just saying that she hasn't been picked out at random to be attacked... She has strong opinions and expresses them fairly forcefully and that invites a certain response.

I'm not even saying g it's the wrong way to be... I mean... I also have strong opinions, sometimes opinions that are a bit all over the place and I'm working through myself, and I don't exactly state them gently all of the time. And I do sometimes end up on the receiving end of some backlash for that. And I also on more than one occasion have found myself holding a very lonely line against multiple people in threads :joker:. Sometimes I enjoy it and find it stimulating, sometimes I find it frustrating and it, as much as I hate to admit it, it can affect my day overall (more due to spending hours battling and stressing in general than being upset by actual content, but still).

I guess my point is... If you choose to "go to battle" - like Brillo does, like I do, and many other TiBBers - you have to sort of accept that you're heading into potentially uncomfortable territory? There are other members who state their opinions in depth, and well, in a lower-key way and even when those opinions are very similar to those expressed by us... Battlers... They very rarely find themselves feeling the heat for it. There's a reason for that...

I guess all I'm saying is it partially is a decision. If you have strong opinions and state them bluntly, then the reply is probably going to require a thicker skin. :shrug:


.....(ok, apologies Brillo because I did say that It wasn’t fair to discuss you in this way...)...and I will say, TS that the only reason I’ve quoted your post is because I can agree with much you’ve said especially in terms of...if labels are objected to then it has to work for all.. and no labels used for others either by anyone feeling ‘labelled’, whatever that label may be..also I agree with much of what you’ve said in this post about the ‘nature of discussions’ in this section...



..anyways, all I have to say is during this last year while I haven’t been on the forum, the only reason I’ve been able to read some threads/posts from time to time is they’ve been there for me to read...in that they have been left there and not removed...and that part I’ve felt is wrong as well...those posts...(..and these aren’t isolated posts but please don’t ask me to search for them because that’s too exhausting/..not recalling which specific threads they were...)...but the posts...?...I guess what I felt were grim, as I said earlier...they weren’t questioning a post or asking for any clarification or disagreeing with an opinion...they were actually stating that the forum was a better place without the member who has been discussed, how everything was much better on the forum when she wasn’t there...but not even from that own person’s perspective but using a collective ‘we’ to say that others felt the same...and that member this was targeted it had maybe only started a thread or made one post so this wasn’t involving a discussion or debate at all...I mean that is targeting and bordering on bullying ...and yes, infractions may have been given, that’s not for any of us to comment on...but the leaving up of those posts, I mean how would that make someone feel...?...not only to have it said to them but then it just left there for her to feel, it wasn’t serious enough for removal...

...as you said TS, you go into battle some days...:laugh:...and then you fight your battle as does your ‘Opponent’...but there are times when Brillo is attacked, when a battle as you say was never occurring...her very first post or the OP of a thread and she can be shown hostilities in very much a targeting way...

[DemolitionRed]

I kind of agree with that but, is there a reason for it? I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying there's an excuse for it, if Brillo is feeling marginalised and attacked then that's not a good look on anyone, I guess I'm just saying that she hasn't been picked out at random to be attacked... She has strong opinions and expresses them fairly forcefully and that invites a certain response.

I'm not even saying g it's the wrong way to be... I mean... I also have strong opinions, sometimes opinions that are a bit all over the place and I'm working through myself, and I don't exactly state them gently all of the time. And I do sometimes end up on the receiving end of some backlash for that. And I also on more than one occasion have found myself holding a very lonely line against multiple people in threads :joker:. Sometimes I enjoy it and find it stimulating, sometimes I find it frustrating and it, as much as I hate to admit it, it can affect my day overall (more due to spending hours battling and stressing in general than being upset by actual content, but still).

I guess my point is... If you choose to "go to battle" - like Brillo does, like I do, and many other TiBBers - you have to sort of accept that you're heading into potentially uncomfortable territory? There are other members who state their opinions in depth, and well, in a lower-key way and even when those opinions are very similar to those expressed by us... Battlers... They very rarely find themselves feeling the heat for it. There's a reason for that...

I guess all I'm saying is it partially is a decision. If you have strong opinions and state them bluntly, then the reply is probably going to require a thicker skin. :shrug:

Good post :clap1:

[Withano]

The terms racist, homophobic, sexist, etc that this poll highlights get tossed around on this forum like it's candy on Halloween. So understandably (though this is definitely not my approach :laugh:) some people will toss PC, Leftist Bullying, misandric, etc gets tossed back...

I'm very reluctant respond to this poll for example, because it feels like another setup to be brought into character assassinations, which comes from both ends tbqf.

I don't even think the issue is the words being tossed about, as much as people are feeling baited and gaslit (welcome to 2018) and feeling like they have to respond to every character attack... and the disparate modding on this board enables a persecution complex (I've seen both sides complain about mods) of sorts, because then they think they're being hand selected for their strong views.

My solution would've been to edit posts with mod sig and leave note in posts why they were edited to keep it transparent. Except we're in weird times where everyone feels like if you try to adjust their words or if it happens when certain groups are involved, then it turns into a conspiracy theory...

My question to those who answered No in the poll, when you respond with these inflammatory words and throw labels... what are you individually getting out of it? Because it isn't changing minds, clearly. I do think there are attempts to bully at times (edited, created a bit of a broad stroke there).. maybe not silence, but to create discomfort for other people on board with your strong opinions in order to starve them of breathing room... only one side can really be accused of this because obviously there is a huge minority of right-wing-ish users... but are staff responsible for picking sides? No. In my opinion, everyone should be edited as TS suggested--all baiting behavior (incendiary language), etc.. but I personally perfectly happy to ignore it (personally)

I'm just sad that we've really lost some great users to such petty ****. Most of the time SD is a dumpster fire (:laugh:), but when you're talking with the right mix of people, it can be pretty stimulating conversation than your average small talk...

The thread wasnt supposed to be about tibb (but somehow we keep going back to brillo, so i see why you might think that!), I dont think many who answered 'no' in the poll answered with tibb in mind.

I'm pretty sure I've never called someone a racist in, or outside of tibb. If I did use it, it would be to determine whether or not the offender knew how their words/actions were being perceived. Because them knowing/not knowing would alter my feelings and responses to their words/actions. But my reaction would be kinda irrelevant to the question, the question is asking whther theyre entitled to be that way to begin with.

[Vicky.]

Ammi you need to start reporting posts like the ones you described tbh. Its not really fair to be saying that they were not removed, when there is a large chance we didn't know about them. If its accurate what you recall, and it had been reported, those would definitely have been removed. Even when mods post in threads we do not necessarily read all the posts in the thread (I tend to in this section mind, not so much in the BB bit)

[Maru]

I kind of agree with that but, is there a reason for it? I'm not saying it's right and I'm not saying there's an excuse for it, if Brillo is feeling marginalised and attacked then that's not a good look on anyone, I guess I'm just saying that she hasn't been picked out at random to be attacked... She has strong opinions and expresses them fairly forcefully and that invites a certain response.

I'm not even saying g it's the wrong way to be... I mean... I also have strong opinions, sometimes opinions that are a bit all over the place and I'm working through myself, and I don't exactly state them gently all of the time. And I do sometimes end up on the receiving end of some backlash for that. And I also on more than one occasion have found myself holding a very lonely line against multiple people in threads :joker:. Sometimes I enjoy it and find it stimulating, sometimes I find it frustrating and it, as much as I hate to admit it, it can affect my day overall (more due to spending hours battling and stressing in general than being upset by actual content, but still).

I guess my point is... If you choose to "go to battle" - like Brillo does, like I do, and many other TiBBers - you have to sort of accept that you're heading into potentially uncomfortable territory? There are other members who state their opinions in depth, and well, in a lower-key way and even when those opinions are very similar to those expressed by us... Battlers... They very rarely find themselves feeling the heat for it. There's a reason for that...

I guess all I'm saying is it partially is a decision. If you have strong opinions and state them bluntly, then the reply is probably going to require a thicker skin. :shrug:

It does effect some of us more than others and I think it's fair for individuals to sometimes say they need to step out entirely and get themselves in order before they respond in a way that only leads to more frustration/stress. But there are people who actively buttress their points by frustrating people in this forum with baiting commentary, like "Oh well lookie there, so and so didn't respond or they're sooo frustrated... I guess you just don't debate very well, look at mah mad debate skillz"... very little is gained when this happens for both sides, aside from the pleasure of creating discomfort for some folk I guess? It doesn't really change anyone's mind imo.

I remember when I used to admin, I used to have abuse thrown at me on a daily basis. I didn't have a choice but to soldier on and there are a lot of times when it is actually against your best interests, much less the debate itself, to respond to any of it tbqf. So I've developed some short rules I follow and I used to give people similar rules through PM's as a mod... I think some people are just venting for whatever reason and want to feel like they are being heard by someone, and it doesn't even matter in the end what the argument was about, as much as they were not feeling listened to and are taking it out on a public forum (after all, the attraction here is the anonymity of it)..

But there are just times when your partner is not a debate partner but simply an energy vampire. Some you can allow an "in" and because they feed off of you emotionally, they happily sit behind the keyboard with you maneuvering around your words and creating pits for you to walk into just to keep going endlessly with you in circles. Those people cannot be reformed by modding. They know exactly what they're doing and they take great pleasure in doing it. And let's be honest, some people are easier than others to pick off of and are much easier to generate reactions from, and it's this tendency that makes them great prey for those who thrive through that type of bullying...

Anyway as for the rest, I do agree with you for the most part on the other counts, that anytime you debate, you are exposing some skin, no matter how much of a thick skin you have. There really is no way to prevent offense when you are trying to have a good debate about a controversial topic... it is helpful when you have good debate partners, but there's not a huge percentage of the entire population that enjoys this kind of intellectual "self-gratification" :laugh:, so those partners are understandably in short supply that would go the extra mile with you...

[Brillopad]

How DARE people question others in a serious debate!

You clearly lack understanding on the difference between questioning and aggressive insults.

It is after all in your interests to deny and try to undermine every word I say as you are the one who throws such words around at the drop of a hat. You have certainly chucked that word my way more than any other member on here.

I won’t indulge you and your ‘opinions’ any more.

[Ammi]

Ammi you need to start reporting posts like the ones you described tbh. Its not really fair to be saying that they were not removed, when there is a large chance we didn't know about them. If its accurate what you recall, and it had been reported, those would definitely have been removed. Even when mods post in threads we do not necessarily read all the posts in the thread (I tend to in this section mind, not so much in the BB bit)

...I would indeed have either reported or posted myself with any member who I felt was being targeted quite unnecessarily rather than being ‘responded to’ ...had obviously I been able to do either at the time, Vicky...I’m sorry that you think it’s unfair that I’ve mentioned is but I’ve only been able to mention it because the posts/attacks were there to be seen...

[Vicky.]

...I would indeed have either reported or posted myself with any member who I felt was being targeted quite unnecessarily rather than being ‘responded to’ ...had obviously I been able to do either at the time, Vicky...I’m sorry that you think it’s unfair that I’ve mentioned is but I’ve only been able to mention it because the posts/attacks were there to be seen...

I don't think its unfair you mention it :p

I think its kind of unfair to not actually report it at the time but be bringing it up now with the 'they were not deleted, left to stand still' type angle, when if they were reported they most likely from what you have said, would have been deleted.

Actually rather curious about these posts now :laugh:

[Ammi]

I don't think its unfair you mention it :p

I think its kind of unfair to not actually report it at the time but be bringing it up now with the 'they were not deleted, left to stand still' type angle, when if they were reported they most likely from what you have said, would have been deleted.

Actually rather curious about these posts now :laugh:

...I’ve just responded to your message so I’ll leave it with that, Vicky...

[Tom4784]

You clearly lack understanding on the difference between questioning and aggressive insults.

It is after all in your interests to deny and try to undermine every word I say as you are the one who throws such words around at the drop of a hat. You have certainly chucked that word my way more than any other member on here.

I won’t indulge you and your ‘opinions’ any more.

You consider racist an insult, your definition of insults is not the same as most people's.

This post is just proof of what I've been saying a lot. you are literally trying to silence me by making out that I'm attacking you when I and everyone else you think is attacking you is literally just engaging you in a discussion. You are undermining anyone who has a different opinion to you by branding their posts as attacks instead of acknowledging that everyone has a right to an opinion.

I do disagree with Vicky on one thing she mentioned, I don't think terms like snowflakes, remoaners, loony leftie etc is the same as Racist/Homophobe etc. You can accuse someone of the latter of being so without it being an insult but calling someone a snowflake, remoaner, leftie is always intended as an insult to belittle people on their views.

If I've accused you of racism then I'm guessing, like that school thread I've linked, I've given you reasons as to why it's my opinion that you are a racist. On the other hand, you've never had a good reason to brand me a terrorist sympathiser yet you have multiple times in the past because I have a different opinion on Muslims to you. Unlike you, however, I'll take your accusations and absolutely destroy them because that's what you do against false accusations.

At the end of the day, Brillo, it comes down to the fact that you can give it out all you like but you can't take it if someone dishes it back to you. It's always been the case.

[Brillopad]

You consider racist an insult, your definition of insults is not the same as most people's.

This post is just proof of what I've been saying a lot. you are literally trying to silence me by making out that I'm attacking you when I and everyone else you think is attacking you is literally just engaging you in a discussion. You are undermining anyone who has a different opinion to you by branding their posts as attacks instead of acknowledging that everyone has a right to an opinion.

I do disagree with Vicky on one thing she mentioned, I don't think terms like snowflakes, remoaners, loony leftie etc is the same as Racist/Homophobe etc. You can accuse someone of the latter of being so without it being an insult but calling someone a snowflake, remoaner, leftie is always intended as an insult to belittle people on their views.

If I've accused you of racism then I'm guessing, like that school thread I've linked, I've given you reasons as to why it's my opinion that you are a racist. On the other hand, you've never had a good reason to brand me a terrorist sympathiser yet you have multiple times in the past because I have a different opinion on Muslims to you. Unlike you, however, I'll take your accusations and absolutely destroy them because that's what you do against false accusations.

At the end of the day, Brillo, it comes down to the fact that you can give it out all you like but you can't take it if someone dishes it back to you. It's always been the case.

What a load of old tosh - really! Apart from the rest of it that that I really can’t be bothered to address with you anymore - the sheer fact you think that calling someone a leftie or a remoaner is insulting but calling someone a bigot or a racist isn’t is so ridiculous it completely invalidates any opinion you have in my opinion.

You are just trying to dig yourself out of that hole you have dug for yourself with all your attempted shut-down insults and now backtracking at a rate of knots trying to suggest you weren’t trying to insult or belittle people.

So you really expect people to believe that when you call someone a racist, bigot or homophobe you are not trying to insult them! You should listen to yourself!

[Marsh.]

Oh give it a rest. Every topic becomes all about how you're a victim, do you never get tired of talking about yourself?

[Brillopad]

Oh give it a rest. Every topic becomes all about how you're a victim, do you never get tired of talking about yourself?

Just pass on by then as I have no interest in your opinion on the subject thanks.

[Marsh.]

Just pass on by then as I have no interest in your opinion on the subject thanks.

Oh, so now this is "Brillo's Serious Debates & News" where we need your interest and permission to join in? :joker:

[Brillopad]

Oh, so now this is "Brillo's Serious Debates & News" where we need your interest and permission to join in? :joker:

Nope, but I don’t have to join in with you.

[Marsh.]

Nope, but I don’t have to join in with you.

Who said you did? Nobody's forcing you to communicate with anyone. :hee:

[Tom4784]

What a load of old tosh - really! Apart from the rest of it that that I really can’t be bothered to address with you anymore - the sheer fact you think that calling someone a leftie or a remoaner is insulting but calling someone a bigot or a racist isn’t is so ridiculous it completely invalidates any opinion you have in my opinion.

You are just trying to dig yourself out of that hole you have dug for yourself with all your attempted shut-down insults and now backtracking at a rate of knots trying to suggest you weren’t trying to insult or belittle people.

So you really expect people to believe that when you call someone a racist, bigot or homophobe you are not trying to insult them! You should listen to yourself!

That's funny, you ignore most of it because you don't have an answer for it, don't pretend it's for any other reason than that.

Of course your terms for people that think differently to you are insulting. As I said before and it's a sentiment that's been shared by a lot of people on here, If you want to accuse someone of racism then you can, as long as you aren't insulting and you can back up your accusation then it's not an insult. You calling anyone that disagrees with you a leftie or a remoaner is not the same, that's just you trying to shut down anyone else's opinion.

As for the boded point, what gives you the right to decide whose opinion is 'valid'? What makes you different to everyone else in that you alone can decide what opinions can be and which ones cannot? You have a massive problem with freedom of Speech and your words prove it here, you believe freedom of speech is just for you and people who share your opinion and no one else.

As for the only one shutting down opinions and backtracking, that would be you, you just told me that my opinion was invalid. literally a paragraph before you wrote these baseless accusations. You should take your advice and really listen to yourself, read the accusations you throw at people and then read your own posts. I've also got to say that your friends on here are doing you a massive disservice by feeding your victim complex instead of helping you overcome it. A good friend would tell you when you are wrong and help you do better.

Overall, the only reason you want to stop people accusing others of any kind of bigotry is because you're scared of being accused because you obviously can't dispel accusations like that which is why you go on the attack like you have on this post even though it doesn't make a lick of sense to do so. You've just used your stock insults against me although they make no sense in the context you've used them.

[Withano]

I'm not being funny though, can Brillo be banned from this thread? She's been talking about herself for about 6 pages now and I'm not even exaggerating.

49 posts (more than everybody else!) and I genuinely dont think shes contributed to the discussion once.

[Kizzy]

I've come to love the term 'leftie' it's a badge of honour if anything I'm immensely proud of my left wing views, even PC too is so abstract and generalised that it's leveled at just about anyone anyone.

However the terms bigot and racist are very specific.. you have to have a certain criteria to fit to be accused of being racist, none of the terms mentioned are essentially derogatory you have to analyse your words and decide whether the terms apply... have I a left leaning view? ..Yes so I am a 'lefty' I suppose. Is my view in the main politically correct ( in my definition of the word, not hate speech, follows the laws as they stand in the UK).... yes

You have to ask yourself, could anything I have said ever be considered racist or bigoted?... It's not an insult if there is more than a grain of truth in the accusation is it? If you are in denial or simply unaware of how you are coming across you could see this as a learning curve.

It's great to be honest, I love honesty, honesty is my favourite.
I'm honestly left wing.
Have you ever heard anyone say they are honestly bigoted? Not many, specifically here.

[Marsh.]

I'm not being funny though, can Brillo be banned from this thread? She's been talking about herself for about 6 pages now and I'm not even exaggerating.

49 posts (more than everybody else!) and I genuinely dont think shes contributed to the discussion once.

:clap1:

[Brillopad]

I'm not being funny though, can Brillo be banned from this thread? She's been talking about herself for about 6 pages now and I'm not even exaggerating.

49 posts (more than everybody else!) and I genuinely dont think shes contributed to the discussion once.

It’s called calling out the PC brigade. As I have been one of those labelled by such PC I have every right to do so - not surprised the PC bunch don’t like it and again try to shut me down.

As you were the one previously mentioned who was actually telling me that the place was a better place without me and others pointed out how that had been perceived as bullying I don’t think anything you have to say on this can be construed as anything but completely bias with a very obvious agenda.

[thesheriff443]

An old favourite!, back on topic please.

[Brillopad]

That's funny, you ignore most of it because you don't have an answer for it, don't pretend it's for any other reason than that.

Of course your terms for people that think differently to you are insulting. As I said before and it's a sentiment that's been shared by a lot of people on here, If you want to accuse someone of racism then you can, as long as you aren't insulting and you can back up your accusation then it's not an insult. You calling anyone that disagrees with you a leftie or a remoaner is not the same, that's just you trying to shut down anyone else's opinion.

As for the boded point, what gives you the right to decide whose opinion is 'valid'? What makes you different to everyone else in that you alone can decide what opinions can be and which ones cannot? You have a massive problem with freedom of Speech and your words prove it here, you believe freedom of speech is just for you and people who share your opinion and no one else.

As for the only one shutting down opinions and backtracking, that would be you, you just told me that my opinion was invalid. literally a paragraph before you wrote these baseless accusations. You should take your advice and really listen to yourself, read the accusations you throw at people and then read your own posts. I've also got to say that your friends on here are doing you a massive disservice by feeding your victim complex instead of helping you overcome it. A good friend would tell you when you are wrong and help you do better.

Overall, the only reason you want to stop people accusing others of any kind of bigotry is because you're scared of being accused because you obviously can't dispel accusations like that which is why you go on the attack like you have on this post even though it doesn't make a lick of sense to do so. You've just used your stock insults against me although they make no sense in the context you've used them.

Your bias is blatant in your sentiments that the insults you throw at others are not insults because you tell us so, but any retorts to your insults are because you tell us so. It is clear that you view your opinions as the only valid opinions and any opposing opinions as ignorance - you state it often enough.

So no I no longer view your opinions on this as valid because they are so biased. You have your perspective and refuse to acknowledge any other perspective as valid - you just see some poor Soul who needs educating by you on the errors of their ways and if that doesn’t succeed you resort to insults to shut them up.

In your mind your views are fact and any explanation you have offered up as ‘evidence’ is so because you say it is. I don’t recall you presenting any cast iron facts, just more opinions and attempted explanations that in my opinion didn’t cut it. Something isn’t fact because you say it is.

And what is this with trying to bring others into this by attempting to imply that anyone else who expresses their opinions on all this that are not to your liking are misguided friends who are doing this poor bigot no favours - when some who passed comment I had never even exchanged a single post with previously. That is pretty desperate. Are you now trying to undermine their opinions as well? Pretty low blow in my opinion. Besides you have those same few who back-up your words on many occasions including those who are also just as keen to throw around similar insults. Big fail on that one.

As far as I am concerned your post is just more spin in your ever increasing attempts to defend your attacks on those whose opinions you have nothing but distain for in the same old shut-down way. It is you who has issues with free-speech but as ever you will twist and turn in an attempt to run rings around people and muddy the waters - after your previous insults failed to have the desired effect of course.

[Withano]

It’s called calling out the PC brigade. As I have been one of those labelled by such PC I have every right to do so - not surprised the PC bunch don’t like it and again try to shut me down.

As you were the one previously mentioned who was actually telling me that the place was a better place without me and others pointed out how that had been perceived as bullying I don’t think anything you have to say on this can be construed as anything but completely bias with a very obvious agenda.

I cant even begin to understand how you think this is relevant to the OP or to my post you just quoted. It isn't, I'm literally asking if you could, for once, stop talking about yourself or others, and start discussing the topic, or just simply shut up. Make your own thread about yourself if you like, dont just assume one about racists is close enough to steer towards yourself cos its ****ing boring.
You're now 50 posts in to "calling out the PC brigade" because youre upset about various things. Thats like the most PC thing I've ever seen in or outside of tibb.

[Vicky.]

Will sort this thread out soon, closed for now.